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fr8mech
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Harry Reid (D-NV): A Liar?

Fri Aug 03, 2012 9:30 pm

I refuse to call Harry Reid (D-NV), The Senate majority leader a liar.

Senate Majority Leader Harry Reid (D-NV) has claimed that "a person who had invested with Bain Capital" told him that Mitt Romney had not paid taxes for 10 years. He did this in an interview and again on The Senate floor.

http://www.washingtonpost.com/blogs/...rs/2012/07/31/gJQADXkSNX_blog.html

http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2012/0...y-reid-romney-taxes_n_1724027.html

Of course, the Romney Campaign, has denied the charge and has, all but, called Harry Reid (D-NV) a liar.

http://news.yahoo.com/mitt-romney-te...-185926937--abc-news-politics.html

I think that the senate majority leader, a Democrat, should prove that he is not a liar. I believe that Senator Ried (D-NV) should come forward with the name of this, so far unnamed, "person" and put to rest the notion that he, the senator, is a liar. I think the American people would feel better knowing that their senate majority leader, Harry Reid (D-NV) was not a liar. So, the senator needs to release the name of this person and the details of this conversation in order to put the American people at ease. He needs to prove that he is not a liar.

Now, credit to Paul Begala (Democratic Party advisor), he is trying his darndest to defend Senator Harry Reid (D-NV) on Anderson Cooper's CNN show. I mean, it is "the most logical, simplest explanation" for Mr. Romney not releasing his tax returns, isn't it?

http://www.realclearpolitics.com/vid...s_is_most_logical_explanation.html

http://cnnpressroom.blogs.cnn.com/20...-reid-allegations-re-romney-taxes/

Come on Senator Reid (D-NV) prove you're not a liar.
When seconds count...the police are minutes away.
 
mt99
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RE: Harry Reid (D-NV): A Liar?

Fri Aug 03, 2012 9:37 pm

Quoting fr8mech (Thread starter):
I refuse to call Harry Reid (D-NV), The Senate majority leader a liar.

He is a politician, ins't he?

Does Mittens need to prove that he is not a liar?

Quoting fr8mech (Thread starter):
So, the senator needs to release the name of this person and the details of this conversation in order to put the American people at ease

At ease? how - IF true - then we Romney is proved a hack. That will give you "ease"?

If its not true- the we prove politicians lie. That will give you "ease"?

The only way i can see the American people ease .. is that Mittens show us his tax returns and proves to us he is just a poor Joe dealing with taxes likes everyone else, just like every average American,

Quoting fr8mech (Thread starter):
I think the American people would feel better knowing that their senate majority leader,

I think the American people would feel better knowing that their Presidential Candidates,.

[Edited 2012-08-03 14:42:35]
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DocLightning
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RE: Harry Reid (D-NV): A Liar?

Fri Aug 03, 2012 9:51 pm

Quoting fr8mech (Thread starter):
I think that the senate majority leader, a Democrat, should prove that he is not a liar.

You know... there is a very simple solution to this problem. Mr. Romney can release those returns. Remember, this is not a criminal case at this point, this is politics. In the political world, a politician like Mr. Romney is guilty until proven innocent. He has provided two years' worth of tax returns, which is far less than would be released normally, as I understand.

Mr. Romney said that he didn't want to release them because he was afraid that the Obama campaign would pick them apart and use them against him. This raises the question: exactly what in those returns is the Obama campaign going to use against him?

Mr. Reid has done something very shrewd. Obnoxious, yes, but shrewd. Whether it turns out he is correct or not, there are a few take-home points:
*The stuff people can say about you or even make up about you might be a lot worse than the reality.
*We can expect a Romney administration to be very cagey and secretive to a degree not seen since Nixon.
*The longer this goes on, the worse it makes Romney look.

Mr. Reid has very little to lose in this game. Mr. Romney has an awful lot to lose in this game.

A little light side-note: A friend of mine (a Mormon) commented: "This is as close as you ever get to hot Mormon-on-Mormon action!"   
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fr8mech
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RE: Harry Reid (D-NV): A Liar?

Fri Aug 03, 2012 10:07 pm

Quoting mt99 (Reply 1):
He is a politician, ins't he?


I have every confidence that Senate Majority Leader Harry Reid (D-NV) is not a liar. But, I think he has to prove it to me and the American people.

I would like to know the name of this unnamed investor in Bain Capital that, inexplicable, has knowledge of Mitt Romney's tax situation. I mean, this is 'hair-on-fire' kind of stuff. I want to know all the juicy details.

Heck, this even goes deeper...I mean, where's the IRS in this? What have they been doing all these years that Mitt Romney, (Governor of Massachusetts, the chairman of the Salt Lake City Olympic Committee and the director(?) of Bain Capital) has not been filing or paying taxes?

Again, I don't believe the Democratic Senator from Nevada is a liar, but I believe he needs to prove that, if for any reason, to set Anderson Copper at ease and restore his faith in the senator.
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DeltaMD90
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RE: Harry Reid (D-NV): A Liar?

Fri Aug 03, 2012 10:11 pm

Yeah I saw this, I think it just adds fuel to the Presidential race 2012 (fuel to the giant BS fire)

Quoting DocLightning (Reply 2):
Mr. Romney said that he didn't want to release them because he was afraid that the Obama campaign would pick them apart and use them against him. This raises the question: exactly what in those returns is the Obama campaign going to use against him?

I'm sure the opposition campaign would, fairly or unfairly. Personally I'm sick of it all.


But I know if the tables were turned, the outrage would be going in the other direction, the defenders would all of the sudden claim it's ok and vice versa. Sickening
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BMI727
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RE: Harry Reid (D-NV): A Liar?

Fri Aug 03, 2012 10:34 pm

Quoting fr8mech (Thread starter):
Senate Majority Leader Harry Reid (D-NV) has claimed that "a person who had invested with Bain Capital" told him that Mitt Romney had not paid taxes for 10 years.

I imagine someone actually did tell him that. Technically, he isn't lying. Of course everyone should ask themselves why they should believe Reid and his secret friend.

Quoting fr8mech (Thread starter):
So, the senator needs to release the name of this person and the details of this conversation in order to put the American people at ease.

No he doesn't. Reid doesn't have to do anything, and for that matter neither does Romney. Until there's evidence to show otherwise believe what you want to believe.
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einsteinboricua
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RE: Harry Reid (D-NV): A Liar?

Fri Aug 03, 2012 10:42 pm

Reid dropped a rather heavy accusation, but since the Romney campaign has only denied it (not disproved it) and remained silent on the issue, I'm leaning towards believing that Reid IS telling the truth. Doesn't mean that I believe him straightforward, but I'm inclined to think he is telling the truth. That being said, asking Reid to bring forth his source won't do much especially if Romney is declining to do the same thing with his tax returns.
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DocLightning
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RE: Harry Reid (D-NV): A Liar?

Fri Aug 03, 2012 10:56 pm

Quoting DeltaMD90 (Reply 4):
But I know if the tables were turned, the outrage would be going in the other direction, the defenders would all of the sudden claim it's ok and vice versa. Sickening

Well, the tables were turned with the whole Birther thing.

Here's the difference: no other President was forced to ask a state to pull out the original COLB. The state's printed one was fine. Also, not only did he provide his COLB as required, but there was other evidence to corroborate. The evidence that the Birthers demanded of Obama went way beyond standard.

In this case, it is standard for candidates to provide their historical tax returns for a number of years back. Romney's very limited disclosure sticks out like a sore thumb. And the thing is that he could end this all very quickly by releasing those returns. So why doesn't he?
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usflyer msp
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RE: Harry Reid (D-NV): A Liar?

Fri Aug 03, 2012 11:00 pm

Quoting fr8mech (Reply 3):
Heck, this even goes deeper...I mean, where's the IRS in this? What have they been doing all these years that Mitt Romney, (Governor of Massachusetts, the chairman of the Salt Lake City Olympic Committee and the director(?) of Bain Capital) has not been filing or paying taxes?

I don't think Reid is accusing Romney not filing taxes. I think he is accusing Romney of using so many offshore investments, tax shelters and loopholes that he effectively paid no taxes.
 
planeguy727
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RE: Harry Reid (D-NV): A Liar?

Fri Aug 03, 2012 11:16 pm

A few thoughts:

1) This may be a political trick that backfires. The central idea being that if Romney does not release more then it appears as if the statement were true. Of course it already looks to be failing as the call is now on Reid to prove it true, more so than Romney to prove it false.

2) Why would and investor know what Romney paid in personal income taxes?

3) Romney has only released one year and promised to release 2011 when they are complete. He filed for an extension back in April.

As a strong independent I encourage each person to look at the motivations of each side before deciding who is telling the truth, who is lying, and the chance that both are technically not lying (all about the word choice).
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vikkyvik
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RE: Harry Reid (D-NV): A Liar?

Fri Aug 03, 2012 11:45 pm

Quoting fr8mech (Reply 3):
I have every confidence that Senate Majority Leader Harry Reid (D-NV) is not a liar. But, I think he has to prove it to me and the American people.

That made me laugh.

Quoting mt99 (Reply 1):
He is a politician, ins't he?

  

End of thread.
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Confuscius
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RE: Harry Reid (D-NV): A Liar?

Sat Aug 04, 2012 12:06 am

I'll preempt the most ardent Romney supporters here...

The president hasn't released his school grades either. He's afraid to tell the American people the he A+ his anti-infidel class in Djakarta. Until the president does, Romney should not release his tax returns.
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BMI727
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RE: Harry Reid (D-NV): A Liar?

Sat Aug 04, 2012 12:41 am

Quoting planeguy727 (Reply 9):
Of course it already looks to be failing as the call is now on Reid to prove it true, more so than Romney to prove it false.

The only people doing that are people who will be voting for Romney anyway.
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ltbewr
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RE: Harry Reid (D-NV): A Liar?

Sat Aug 04, 2012 12:43 am

What bugs me, a loyal Democrat, as to Sen. Reid statement 'Romney paid no taxes for 10 years' is that he could be very wrong. I suspect his 'source' could be a former Bain partner, who could have some access to parts of Romney's tax records due to the nature of partnerships and perhaps got screwed by Bain so seeking revenge.

I think President Obama should tell Sen. Reid to shut up, retract his statement, apologize to Mr. Romney unless the 'leaker' is willing to come forward in public with his accusations. Yes, continue to call for releasing his tax returns, there are too many questions as to Romney's tax filings, Democrats are desperate to find something to use like the 'birthers' crap and Rev. Wright disclosures were used on Obama. For far too long, politics is too much about bashing someone rather than promoting something positive and policy on why you should vote for them.

Perhaps Romney could turn over copies of his tax returns for the last 10-12 years to a non-partisan group to review and report if he did pay taxes, how much in amount and percentage of his gross income, without disclosing information that is private to others.

[Edited 2012-08-03 18:42:37]
 
seb146
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RE: Harry Reid (D-NV): A Liar?

Sat Aug 04, 2012 12:54 am

Quoting mt99 (Reply 1):
He is a politician, ins't he?

Said about 10 times in this thread alone. That was the first thing I thought when I saw the title of this thread.

What really bothers me is: Romney is a job crator, according to the right wing. He is one of the ones who can not ever be taxed because he makes millions and creates jobs with the millions he has.

Two questions:

1. Where are all the jobs he creates from his millions?

2. If he is so American and so confident in America and such a patriotic American, why not be a true patriot and keep all his millions in banks right here in America?
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fr8mech
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RE: Harry Reid (D-NV): A Liar?

Sat Aug 04, 2012 12:57 am

You've missed the point.

Quoting einsteinboricua (Reply 6):
but since the Romney campaign has only denied it (not disproved it)


Folks, the whole point of this thread is summed up right here. The Democratic Party, its members and its surrogates just throw out "red meat" and then scream outrage when the presumptive candidate refuses to "disprove" their allegations.

Last month, some Obama campaign spokesperson suggested Mr. Romney was a felon. No proof, just supposition based on assumptions. But, it was expected that Mr. Romney now prove he's not a felon.

Earlier, Mr. Romney was a homophobic bully while in prep school. No matter that there was no proof that the alleged incident happened and no proof that the alleged victim was a homosexual. But, Mr. Romney, again, was expected to disprove a negative.

It is a desperate campaign that slings out baseless accusations and then feigns outrage when they are not answered.

Well, how about this: I have it from a source that was close to young a Barack Obama that said that the pot-smoking, cocaine sniffing, future president fed his habit by robbing convenience stores. Should President Obama have to defend against that?

Kudos to Anderson Cooper for calling out the Democrats on this.

And, for the record, Mr. Romney should have released his taxes. It is now too late. If he did it now: the only thing we would be talking about for the next 90 days would be those taxes and this deduction and that deduction and this account and this income stream and that decimal point.

We wouldn't be talking about an anemic economy.
We wouldn't be talking about 8.3% (oh, wait, 8.254%) unemployment.
We wouldn't be talking about the massive increase in the deficit and the debt.
We wouldn't be talking about the massive increase in people on some sort of government support.
We wouldn't be talking about the cost raising, job killing ACA.
We wouldn't be talking about the oppressive regulations that the Obama administration has brought down.
We wouldn't be talking about Mr. Obama's end-run around congressional legislation.
etc., etc., etc.

In short, at this point in the campaign, Mr. Romney's taxes are a distraction from the real issues.

And yes, I still think Senator Reid (D-NV) needs to prove that he is not a liar...he'll be hard pressed to do so.
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Confuscius
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RE: Harry Reid (D-NV): A Liar?

Sat Aug 04, 2012 1:03 am

Another preempt...

Quoting fr8mech (Reply 15):
Well, how about this: I have it from a source that was close to young a Barack Obama that said that the pot-smoking, cocaine sniffing, future president fed his habit by robbing convenience stores. Should President Obama have to defend against that?

You mean he isn't? ...or didn't?   

[Edited 2012-08-03 18:14:43]
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soon7x7
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RE: Harry Reid (D-NV): A Liar?

Sat Aug 04, 2012 1:14 am

Go Harry Go!...(never interrupt your adversary while he is making an ass of himself/party)...Perhaps the rules of A/Net should officially be applied to campaigning here in the US..."Take the high road". Seems like no one appreciates the value in the climb. The alleged professionals that we elect to run the country, protect its interests and to serve the people have morphed into a lot of childish fools. I believe America has passed V-1 and will loose and engine on climb out ...its successful return is dubious. Self serving, greedy fools now run this ship and I find it deplorable. Hey Harry...howz' about you invite Nancy Pelosi on a date and go to "Chick Fil A" for a bite of reality. Bite your tongue though...you will be among many Christians.
 
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Tugger
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RE: Harry Reid (D-NV): A Liar?

Sat Aug 04, 2012 1:40 am

Quoting fr8mech (Reply 15):
Well, how about this: I have it from a source that was close to young a Barack Obama that said that the pot-smoking, cocaine sniffing, future president fed his habit by robbing convenience stores. Should President Obama have to defend against that?

Well how about this: I have it that President Obama was not actually born in the USA! Yes I know he has already proved it in an authoritative way but I think he needs to defend against it. This accusation is as stupid at that other one.

For goodness sake, it is NOT ILLEGAL, he hasn't bee accused of doing anything wrong or illegal!!

Look Reid made an accusation, he is getting flack for it. Its not a big deal. Reducing your tax burden to zero is not illegal and any smart person will reduce their taxes as much as possible. Why is this "accusation" considered anything bad at all?

Tugg
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PSA53
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RE: Harry Reid (D-NV): A Liar?

Sat Aug 04, 2012 1:50 am

Quoting DocLightning (Reply 2):
ou know... there is a very simple solution to this problem. Mr. Romney can release those returns
Quoting DocLightning (Reply 2):
r. Romney said that he didn't want to release them because he was afraid that the Obama campaign would pick them apart and use them against him.

Romney has done his homework and avoided it or will prove otherwise the charges at the proper time.Obama has always distracted the issues in past elections with this kind of tactic.Will see what happens in the debates.

Quoting fr8mech (Reply 15):
Earlier, Mr. Romney was a homophobic bully while in prep school. No matter that there was no proof that the alleged incident happened and no proof that the alleged victim was a homosexual. But, Mr. Romney, again, was expected to disprove a negative.

At that time? How long ago? And wasn't Hollywood proven the same.Start a thread about Hollywood's movies negative image toward gays.Otherwise,much ado about nothing.You wanna start talking Obama's past.Yikes!
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GuitrThree
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RE: Harry Reid (D-NV): A Liar?

Sat Aug 04, 2012 2:02 am

One would think that with such an allegation from the Senate Leader, the IRS would do an audit. Being that the IRS is lead by the Obama administration, I'm guessing the truth will be found in the "yes or no" answer to an audit.

No Audit? You can bet Romney has paid taxes. Simple as that.

Let's move on to something more important than Harry Reid.
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Ken777
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RE: Harry Reid (D-NV): A Liar?

Sat Aug 04, 2012 2:39 am

Quoting usflyer msp (Reply 8):
I don't think Reid is accusing Romney not filing taxes. I think he is accusing Romney of using so many offshore investments, tax shelters and loopholes that he effectively paid no taxes.

And that is probably the reason why Romney does not want his previous tax records released.

I can see Romney legally avoiding payment of taxes. Wasn't there a 77+K deduction for the horse he has in the Olympics?

You can be sure that Romney has been through IRS audits. His reporting all the tax havens would have triggered more than one. And I have no doubts that his tax accountants and attorneys have ensured total compliance, and maximum utilization of loopholes.

Romney's problems with his taxes is that the public may well gag at the games played, no matter how legal they were. The deduction for the horse is enough to raise questions at the middle class level.

The other issue for Romney is that it was his father who established the standard of disclosure that Mill is running from. That is a huge burden on Mitt and one the Democrats will probably make a major issue the month before the election.

I think Mitt's real problem is that he wasn't willing to pay "politically acceptable" levels of taxes - no matter how much he wanted to be President.

That is going to be a problem.

Quoting Confuscius (Reply 11):
He's afraid to tell the American people the he A+ his anti-infidel class in Djakarta.

Well, Obama was a child who was taken overseas by his mother, not a lot of choice there Just like our two kids didn't have a choice when we moved to Australia for 8 years. In fairness, my daughter was only 6 months old at the time and didn't have an ability to object.

Romney, on the other hand, lived overseas for 2 years, but this was his mission to convert French Catholics to Mormonism. Amazing that he was able to go to France when so many Mormons went to some really rough 3rd world countries. I've often wondered how many elegant French women were talked into wearing the Mormons Magic Underwear by Romney.
 
seb146
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RE: Harry Reid (D-NV): A Liar?

Sat Aug 04, 2012 3:05 am

Quoting fr8mech (Reply 15):
No matter that there was no proof that the alleged incident happened and no proof that the alleged victim was a homosexual.

Actually, there was. Others that witnessed those attacks had come forward and said that, yes, Mitt actually did do those things to him.

Who cares if the man is gay. Unless you are Republican. Then, I suppose, he had it coming. Right?

Quoting fr8mech (Reply 15):
We wouldn't be talking about an anemic economy.
We wouldn't be talking about 8.3% (oh, wait, 8.254%) unemployment.
We wouldn't be talking about the massive increase in the deficit and the debt.
We wouldn't be talking about the massive increase in people on some sort of government support.
We wouldn't be talking about the cost raising, job killing ACA.
We wouldn't be talking about the oppressive regulations that the Obama administration has brought down.
We wouldn't be talking about Mr. Obama's end-run around congressional legislation.

Taxes have been slashed on the "job creators" so it is actually their fault for not creating jobs.
Since there is no income by way of taxes, that increases the debt and deficit.
Since low/middle income people have the choice to either starve or go on government assistance, that triggers the increase in people on some sort of government support.
How many signing statements and "end-runs" has there been by Obama compared to Bush or Reagan or Clinton at this point in their presidencies?

None of that matters though. The main point is: get enough Americans to hate the Democrat in the White House so he is voted out. Don't pay any attention to the man behind the curtain. Nothing to see there. Move along. Just keep hating Democrats. That's all that matters.
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StarAC17
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RE: Harry Reid (D-NV): A Liar?

Sat Aug 04, 2012 3:32 am

Quoting DocLightning (Reply 2):
You know... there is a very simple solution to this problem. Mr. Romney can release those returns. Remember, this is not a criminal case at this point, this is politics. In the political world, a politician like Mr. Romney is guilty until proven innocent. He has provided two years' worth of tax returns, which is far less than would be released normally, as I understand.

There is probably no criminal activities involved in this at all, even if he has been audited in the past it has been dealt with. However I think that the Romney campaign believes that hiding these returns benefits them politically which asks "What are you hiding that is so bad??"

Provided this is something other presidential candidates have done what is he hiding, provided that McCain in 2008 knew the contents of these returns and thought Palin was a better choice for running mate among other candidates. Or that simply not releasing them means he is better off that way which means that all accusations no matter how absurd are fair game.

It's called swift-boating!!

Quoting DocLightning (Reply 2):
Mr. Romney said that he didn't want to release them because he was afraid that the Obama campaign would pick them apart and use them against him. This raises the question: exactly what in those returns is the Obama campaign going to use against him?

That is the question and obviously his advisors believe that not releasing these returns are more beneficial to his campaign that releasing them.

Quoting fr8mech (Reply 3):
I have every confidence that Senate Majority Leader Harry Reid (D-NV) is not a liar. But, I think he has to prove it to me and the American people.

Which is why his a bonehead for opening his mouth in this to begin with.

Quoting BMI727 (Reply 5):
I imagine someone actually did tell him that. Technically, he isn't lying. Of course everyone should ask themselves why they should believe Reid and his secret friend.

The problem is that most Americans as I observe do not believe anything that a majority of their politicians say and the ones who do believe it are a loud minority on both sides of the aisle.

Quoting seb146 (Reply 14):
What really bothers me is: Romney is a job crator, according to the right wing. He is one of the ones who can not ever be taxed because he makes millions and creates jobs with the millions he has.

Two questions:

1. Where are all the jobs he creates from his millions?

Fair question but remember we can't discuss Bain Capital either, even his primary opponents in the same party accused him of this. Again I suspect the uncertainty is better than the fact, and in the debates he will have to answer these questions. His awkward chuckle can only take him so far.

Quoting seb146 (Reply 14):
2. If he is so American and so confident in America and such a patriotic American, why not be a true patriot and keep all his millions in banks right here in America?

To be fair he made most of his money being an investor and he puts its money where it makes money, the sad part in the eyes of a lot of Americans with money is that to make more they have to invest in places that isn't in America.

This is why corporations manufacturer in places like China, and invest in R&D outside of the US because it is better for their bottom lines. What the US needs to do (and they are hardly alone in this) is give people like Mitt Romney an incentive more than tax cuts to keep there money in the US.

Quoting fr8mech (Reply 15):
Folks, the whole point of this thread is summed up right here. The Democratic Party, its members and its surrogates just throw out "red meat" and then scream outrage when the presumptive candidate refuses to "disprove" their allegations.

See 2004 are the "Swift-boat Veterans for Truth".

The democrats are simply using the GOP's (Karl Rove's) playbook to attack their opponent's strengths. In 2004 they attacked Kerry for serving in Vietnam and attempting to discredit that and the mistake of the Kerry campaign was to stay silent on the issue. The only reason the Romney campaign stays silent is because it benefits him in the long run.

Quoting GuitrThree (Reply 20):
One would think that with such an allegation from the Senate Leader, the IRS would do an audit. Being that the IRS is lead by the Obama administration, I'm guessing the truth will be found in the "yes or no" answer to an audit.

Provided Romney filed every year the IRS cannot release the returns without a warrant which they have no legal precedence to do so. Also even though the IRS is a government institution that enforces tax law and has no reason to release tax returns to a private citizen (which Romney is) and as of today he hasn't broken any laws. You would need a warrant to do so and any judge would sign one for the purposes of a presidential campaign shouldn't be a judge. Previous presidential canditates released theirs because they wanted to but that doesn't mean Romney has to, not if someone from McCain's 2008 campaign decides to release them because they have them (which I'm sure they do) then tough bananas Mitt.
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Mir
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RE: Harry Reid (D-NV): A Liar?

Sat Aug 04, 2012 3:44 am

Quoting fr8mech (Reply 3):
I have every confidence that Senate Majority Leader Harry Reid (D-NV) is not a liar. But, I think he has to prove it to me and the American people.

   If he has to prove it, then you don't have every confidence.

Quoting usflyer msp (Reply 8):
I don't think Reid is accusing Romney not filing taxes. I think he is accusing Romney of using so many offshore investments, tax shelters and loopholes that he effectively paid no taxes.

   The people who are saying Romney paid no taxes are the same as the people who say Warren Buffet pays no taxes. He does pay taxes, he just uses loopholes in the law to pay a much lower percentage of his income in taxes than it would seem he ought to be paying. The suspicion is that Romney is doing the same thing. And it's pretty clear what the easiest way to dispel that suspicion is.

Quoting fr8mech (Reply 15):
Folks, the whole point of this thread is summed up right here. The Democratic Party, its members and its surrogates just throw out "red meat" and then scream outrage when the presumptive candidate refuses to "disprove" their allegations.

   Now landing on this thread:


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Where were you when 90% of the right were screaming and moaning and gnashing teeth because Obama wouldn't release his long form, raised seal, hand-delivered, twice-baptized, authenticated-by-Jesus-himself birth certificate? Where was the "Donald Trump: A Liar?" thread?

-Mir
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DocLightning
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RE: Harry Reid (D-NV): A Liar?

Sat Aug 04, 2012 4:08 am

Quoting StarAC17 (Reply 23):
There is probably no criminal activities involved in this at all, even if he has been audited in the past it has been dealt with.

Right, which is why I said "This is not a criminal case at this point." It could theoretically become one, although I doubt it will. I can only hope that the GOP vetted their leading man carefully enough to ensure he has no such skeletons in his closet.

Quoting StarAC17 (Reply 23):
That is the question and obviously his advisors believe that not releasing these returns are more beneficial to his campaign that releasing them.

From which one could logically conclude that there is something really embarrassing in there. As in, more embarrassing than taking the Fifth (if you'll pardon my use of a criminal analogy in a non-criminal matter).

Quoting StarAC17 (Reply 23):
The only reason the Romney campaign stays silent is because it benefits him in the long run.

Didn't work so well for Kerry, did it?

Look, if the Democrats (and let's not forget that Democrats are not the only ones calling Mr. Romney out) were asking for something non-standard, like grade school records, or hospital records of his birth or whatever, I'd call it what it is: BS. However, the Democrats AND Republicans (and let's not forget the Republicans) are calling on him to release something that is pretty standard.

And this is not going away until he does.
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BMI727
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RE: Harry Reid (D-NV): A Liar?

Sat Aug 04, 2012 4:20 am

Quoting seb146 (Reply 14):
If he is so American and so confident in America and such a patriotic American, why not be a true patriot and keep all his millions in banks right here in America?

Costs too much.
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seb146
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RE: Harry Reid (D-NV): A Liar?

Sat Aug 04, 2012 4:23 am

Quoting StarAC17 (Reply 23):
the sad part in the eyes of a lot of Americans with money is that to make more they have to invest in places that isn't in America.

So, in other words, he does create jobs, just not here in America. Just like with the others who scream about not wanting to be taxed.

No one but no one cares if people have money. Lots and lots of money. No one cares about that. What people do care about is: if you are going to claim to be a patriotic American, invest your tax breaks we give you in IN AMERICANS!! Make all the money you want. Please. No one will stop you. Not even the anti-Christ Socialist Obama. Just quit the lie that you create jobs for Americans. We all know you only create jobs for those in China, Mexico, Indonesia, India....
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fr8mech
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RE: Harry Reid (D-NV): A Liar?

Sat Aug 04, 2012 4:37 am

Quoting Mir (Reply 24):
Where were you when 90% of the right were screaming and moaning and gnashing teeth because Obama wouldn't release his long form, raised seal, hand-delivered, twice-baptized, authenticated-by-Jesus-himself birth certificate? Where was the "Donald Trump: A Liar?" thread?

Just out of curiosity...did Senate Minority Leader Mitch McConnell (R-KY) go to the Senate floor and announce that he believed President Obama was not born in the US? How about House Minority Leader and later Speaker John Boehner (R-OH)? Did he go to The Well and make that announcement.

The birther movement was given legs by the media because it made Conservatives look like idiots. Every time the issue died down they found somebody to dredge it up again. Expect to see it at least two more times before November.

Quoting Mir (Reply 24):
If he has to prove it, then you don't have every confidence.

I was being facetious. My point is that Harry Reid (D-NV) is making unfounded allegations about Mr. Romney and forcing him to defend himself and detracting from the real issues.

Quoting DocLightning (Reply 25):
And this is not going away until he does.

And, quite unfortunately, if he does, the collective "we" will be discussing those things until November 6th. That is what this is all about: Mr. Romney's opposition wants to discuss everything but the utter failure that is the Obama Administration.
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Mir
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RE: Harry Reid (D-NV): A Liar?

Sat Aug 04, 2012 4:40 am

Quoting BMI727 (Reply 26):
Quoting seb146 (Reply 14):
If he is so American and so confident in America and such a patriotic American, why not be a true patriot and keep all his millions in banks right here in America?

Costs too much.

Probably true. So what he's really saying is "believe in America, but only if the price is right."

Not quite as inspiring a phrase, that one.

-Mir
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RE: Harry Reid (D-NV): A Liar?

Sat Aug 04, 2012 4:44 am

Quoting fr8mech (Reply 28):
And, quite unfortunately, if he does, the collective "we" will be discussing those things until November 6th. That is what this is all about: Mr. Romney's opposition wants to discuss everything but the utter failure that is the Obama Administration.

So a steady increase in jobs and fulfilling multiple campaign promises is utter failure?

Look, I have big problems with Obama. He's grown government even when you take into account that many of the metrics base government on %GDP. He's insisting on more regulations. He's insisting on fighting the drug war when he said he'd back off. He's done nothing to curb in the massive waste of money that is DHS and TSA.

But if you think he's bad, you ain't seen nothing yet until you've seen a Tea Party presidency. And that's what Romney will be.

Quoting fr8mech (Reply 28):
I was being facetious. My point is that Harry Reid (D-NV) is making unfounded allegations about Mr. Romney and forcing him to defend himself and detracting from the real issues.

But it could be so easy. Just release the returns.

Even Obama finally had to release his COLB "long-form, blah blah" as ridiculous as it was. This request is so not-ridiculous that even Republicans are repeating it!
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vikkyvik
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RE: Harry Reid (D-NV): A Liar?

Sat Aug 04, 2012 4:44 am

Quoting fr8mech (Reply 15):
You've missed the point.

No, not all of us did, which is why I laughed at your initial statement.

Quoting Mir (Reply 24):
Where were you when 90% of the right were screaming and moaning and gnashing teeth because Obama wouldn't release his long form, raised seal, hand-delivered, twice-baptized, authenticated-by-Jesus-himself birth certificate?

Speaking of Jesus, I have every confidence that he was who he said he was, and that he did indeed perform miracles, rise from the dead, etc.

But, I need him to prove it to me.
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RE: Harry Reid (D-NV): A Liar?

Sat Aug 04, 2012 4:52 am

Quoting seb146 (Reply 27):
So, in other words, he does create jobs, just not here in America. Just like with the others who scream about not wanting to be taxed.

No one but no one cares if people have money. Lots and lots of money. No one cares about that. What people do care about is: if you are going to claim to be a patriotic American, invest your tax breaks we give you in IN AMERICANS!! Make all the money you want. Please. No one will stop you. Not even the anti-Christ Socialist Obama. Just quit the lie that you create jobs for Americans. We all know you only create jobs for those in China, Mexico, Indonesia, India....

In order you to understand your rival you have to know how they think and for the investor class which Romney is a part of they know that the greatest returns is putting their money in a place like China over the US. This isn't just for manufacturing but even hi-tech industries because China investing huge in education. That needs to be fixed in the US to bring a lot of jobs home and to create new ones there.

As a private citizen Romney can do whatever he wants it is up to the US voters to decide who is better off serving America. You believe it is Obama some believe it is Romney, and the reality is that about 12 states decide the election on Nov 6th.

Quoting DocLightning (Reply 25):
Didn't work so well for Kerry, did it?

Look, if the Democrats (and let's not forget that Democrats are not the only ones calling Mr. Romney out) were asking for something non-standard, like grade school records, or hospital records of his birth or whatever, I'd call it what it is: BS. However, the Democrats AND Republicans (and let's not forget the Republicans) are calling on him to release something that is pretty standard.

And this is not going away until he does.

It didn't work out for him but I do feel the GOP has an advantage in these political games. If he gets to the election without releasing the returns I will be shocked because if he hasn't by the time the debates role around when a moderator calls him on this issue and his subsequent nervous laugh.

Quoting DocLightning (Reply 25):
Right, which is why I said "This is not a criminal case at this point." It could theoretically become one, although I doubt it will. I can only hope that the GOP vetted their leading man carefully enough to ensure he has no such skeletons in his closet.

I don't think he committed any crimes but from what I have read the McCain campaign in 2008 saw these returns and chose Palin instead which says a lot. I will cite a source on this later as its late here.
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fr8mech
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RE: Harry Reid (D-NV): A Liar?

Sat Aug 04, 2012 4:55 am

Quoting DocLightning (Reply 30):
But it could be so easy. Just release the returns.


Like I said, I agree that he should have released them much earlier...now, they will just detract from the true conversation we should be having.

Quoting DocLightning (Reply 30):
So a steady increase in jobs and fulfilling multiple campaign promises is utter failure?


8.3% unemployment, with a real rate somewhere north of 10%. 1.3 trillion budget deficit. 14?, 15?, 16?, trillion debt. Anemic GDP growth. A stifling regulatory environment. A health care package that more and more people find troubling.

But, this thread isn't about the Obama Administration's record...it's about why the Democrats don't want to talk about the Obama Administration record and would rather distract us with innuendo, allegations and outright fabrications.
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Mir
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RE: Harry Reid (D-NV): A Liar?

Sat Aug 04, 2012 5:04 am

Quoting fr8mech (Reply 28):
The birther movement was given legs by the media because it made Conservatives look like idiots.

I doubt FoxNews had an agenda of making Conservatives look like idiots.

-Mir
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BMI727
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RE: Harry Reid (D-NV): A Liar?

Sat Aug 04, 2012 5:07 am

Quoting Mir (Reply 29):
So what he's really saying is "believe in America, but only if the price is right."

Basically. It's actually what everybody should be saying.
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mt99
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RE: Harry Reid (D-NV): A Liar?

Sat Aug 04, 2012 5:39 am

Quoting fr8mech (Reply 28):
The birther movement was given legs by the media because it made Conservatives look like idiots. Every time the issue died down they found somebody to dredge it up again.

His name is Donald Trump. Should I put an R next his name? Sarah Palin also brings it up quite often.

Quoting fr8mech (Reply 28):
My point is that Harry Reid (D-NV) is making unfounded allegations about Mr. Romney and forcing him to defend himself and detracting from the real issues.
Quoting fr8mech (Reply 33):
8.3% unemployment, with a real rate somewhere north of 10%. 1.3 trillion budget deficit. 14?, 15?, 16?, trillion debt. Anemic GDP growth. A stifling regulatory environment. A health care package that more and more people find troubling

And you are willing to trust the solution to all these problems to someone who wont release his tax returns?

It IS a real issue. He is running on ho great a businessman he has been, he is running on how he saved the Olympics (or how he convinced de Fed Gov to bail them out), don't you want to see if all that is true? Dont you want to know if he followed the rules?

Romney keeps saying: Trust me, everyone else is lying - and ill throw the rust proof undercoating, if you buy this car now...
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mt99
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RE: Harry Reid (D-NV): A Liar?

Sat Aug 04, 2012 5:47 am

All politicians are liers.. its their #1 ability

[Edited 2012-08-03 23:17:58]
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RE: Harry Reid (D-NV): A Liar?

Sat Aug 04, 2012 5:56 am

Quoting fr8mech (Reply 33):
Like I said, I agree that he should have released them much earlier...now, they will just detract from the true conversation we should be having.

Whether then or now, if they should have been released, they should still be released. It won't detract from any "true"(?) conversation because if information should have been released it should be part of the conversation anyway.

Quoting fr8mech (Reply 33):
8.3% unemployment, with a real rate somewhere north of 10%. 1.3 trillion budget deficit. 14?, 15?, 16?, trillion debt. Anemic GDP growth. A stifling regulatory environment. A health care package that more and more people find troubling.

But, this thread isn't about the Obama Administration's record...it's about why the Democrats don't want to talk about the Obama Administration record and would rather distract us with innuendo, allegations and outright fabrications.

Exactly! We need to talk about what should have been done that would have prevented the numbers you are noting.

So what should have been done? What would you have done?

Tugg
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fr8mech
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RE: Harry Reid (D-NV): A Liar?

Sat Aug 04, 2012 6:39 am

Quoting Mir (Reply 34):
I doubt FoxNews had an agenda of making Conservatives look like idiots.

In the final analysis, Fox News in the business of making money. They reported it just like the others.

Quoting mt99 (Reply 36):
His name is Donald Trump. Should I put an R next his name? Sarah Palin also brings it up quite often.

Put an 'R' next to his name all you want. He is not a senior elected official blathering nonsense on the Senate floor. He is a blowhard searching for attention. Sarah Palin reduces her less than stellar credibility everytime she opens her mouth.
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NorthstarBoy
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RE: Harry Reid (D-NV): A Liar?

Sat Aug 04, 2012 12:43 pm

I think there's one good reason why Romney doesn't release his early tax returns:

From 1999-2002 he was listed as being president/chairman/CEO and general grand pubaa of Bain Capital in it's SEC filings even though he swears he was not involved in the company after 1999, when he says he left the company to run the Salt Lake City Olympics. So, the question becomes, is he lying to us now about his lack of involvement in Bain? or was Bain lying to the SEC about his level of involvement? If those tax returns get released and it's revealed that he sold his Bain assets in 1999 then the SEC is going to want to talk to some senior Bain executives about why they lied on their filings. They may even want to talk to Romney himself about why he allowed Bain to list him on their filings when he had no involvement. Believe me any linkage of SEC plus Romney plus Possible Criminal Investigation into Falsified SEC filings will have the sharks circling in the water and it may well cost Romney his campaign. What I mean by that is he may very well have to drop out of the race which leaves the GOP scrambling to come up with a suitable replacement.

I do believe that Romney will continue to resist the pressure, he's come too far, spent too much of other people's money, and he's got too much on the line to do otherwise. Now whether someone else will come forward and release those tax forms, say on October Sixth, is another matter. But, I do believe that there is a firestorm in those returns that would burn Romney alive.
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seb146
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RE: Harry Reid (D-NV): A Liar?

Sat Aug 04, 2012 3:45 pm

Quoting fr8mech (Reply 33):
8.3% unemployment, with a real rate somewhere north of 10%.

Which is easily corrected with all the tax breaks and corporate welfare given to people like Romney because they are "job creators" who are being taxed at a low, low, oh-so-low rate so they can create jobs.

Quoting fr8mech (Reply 33):
1.3 trillion budget deficit. 14?, 15?, 16?, trillion debt. Anemic GDP growth. A stifling regulatory environment.

Which are up to the House. Which is controlled by which party? And the Senate needs a majority. Since the minority party in the Senate keeps saying "no" for no other reason than to block legislation, which is the minority party in the Senate again?
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LMP737
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RE: Harry Reid (D-NV): A Liar?

Sat Aug 04, 2012 4:07 pm

Quoting DocLightning (Reply 2):
He has provided two years' worth of tax returns, which is far less than would be released normally, as I understand.

Tax returns that he filed after 2008 probably having already made up his mind to give it another go in 2012. In other words he was going to make sure there would be nothing on there that might prove embarrassing. It's interesting that George Romney released twelve years of tax returns when he ran for president.

Quoting DocLightning (Reply 2):
Mr. Romney said that he didn't want to release them because he was afraid that the Obama campaign would pick them apart and use them against him.

Welcome to politics Mitt. If you can't handle people picking apart every aspect of your life you might want to find another profession.

Quoting DocLightning (Reply 2):
This raises the question: exactly what in those returns is the Obama campaign going to use against him?

George Will said it best when he stated Romney has calculated releasing the tax returns will do more damage than not releasing them.

[Edited 2012-08-04 09:32:42]
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LMP737
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RE: Harry Reid (D-NV): A Liar?

Sat Aug 04, 2012 4:22 pm

Quoting fr8mech (Reply 15):
We wouldn't be talking about the oppressive regulations that the Obama administration has brought down.

We are not in the current situation we are because there were to many rules. We are our current situation because it was free for all when it came to lending money. I had a family member get an interest only no income verification loan for almost half a million dollars. This in spite of the fact that they made less money than me and there's no way I could afford that. Should something like that be allowed? End result, a year and a half latter foreclosure.
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seb146
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RE: Harry Reid (D-NV): A Liar?

Sat Aug 04, 2012 4:27 pm

Quoting LMP737 (Reply 42):
It's interesting that George Romney released twelve years of tax returns when he ran for president.

And, George Romney was born in Mexico to a polygamist family.
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LMP737
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RE: Harry Reid (D-NV): A Liar?

Sat Aug 04, 2012 4:41 pm

Quoting seb146 (Reply 44):
And, George Romney was born in Mexico to a polygamist family.


That also is interesting.  
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Ken777
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RE: Harry Reid (D-NV): A Liar?

Sat Aug 04, 2012 5:04 pm

Quoting StarAC17 (Reply 23):
However I think that the Romney campaign believes that hiding these returns benefits them politically which asks "What are you hiding that is so bad??"

You are probably right, which leads people to speculate. What about that Swill account? What about the companies and trusts in the Caribbean? How much did Romney hide out of the country, paying zero taxes? And how deeply was Romney tied to those in the financial sector who caused the Financial Crisis?

Was he a friend of Madoff? Did he invest with Madoff? Did he get all of his investments back, plus a big profit?

Lots of reasons to be afraid to show the tax returns. Maybe he will have no chance of becoming President if he does show them.

Or maybe he will wait until after the Convention to show them, believing that the GOP would dump him if the returns were understood before the convention.

Quoting StarAC17 (Reply 23):
Previous presidential canditates released theirs because they wanted to but that doesn't mean Romney has to

Queer bit about that. It was Mitts own FATHER who set the standards for releasing years of tax returns. I believe George Romney released 12 years when he set that standard.

It is absolutely amazing that it would be George Romney's own son who was responsible for breaking that standard.

George would be ashamed and Mitt should be also. I'm starting to believe that Mitt lacks the character to be ashamed.

Quoting fr8mech (Reply 28):
Just out of curiosity...did Senate Minority Leader Mitch McConnell (R-KY) go to the Senate floor and announce that he believed President Obama was not born in the US? How about House Minority Leader and later Speaker John Boehner (R-OH)? Did he go to The Well and make that announcement.

I don't remember either of them acting like a birthed. But I also don't remember them manning up (like McCain did) and telling the birthers to shut their mouths because Obama was a natural born American. Looks like both lacked the character that McCain clearly displayed.

Quoting StarAC17 (Reply 32):
If he gets to the election without releasing the returns I will be shocked because if he hasn't by the time the debates role around when a moderator calls him on this issue and his subsequent nervous laugh.

It seems very difficult to believe that Romney can get elected without releasing the returns. It is simply one powerful issue for the Democrats to hit on every day until the election. It may well have a stronger impact than the Swift Boaters.

Quoting StarAC17 (Reply 32):
I don't think he committed any crimes but from what I have read the McCain campaign in 2008 saw these returns and chose Palin instead which says a lot.

If his returns were off center enough to cause McCain to go with Palin then there must be some really damaging stuff in them.

Quoting fr8mech (Reply 33):
Like I said, I agree that he should have released them much earlier...now, they will just detract from the true conversation we should be having.

It IS a key issue in the campaign - just one that Willard doesn't want people to know about.

The key campaign issue in the fall can be What Is Romney Hiding?

Quoting fr8mech (Reply 33):
8.3% unemployment, with a real rate somewhere north of 10%. 1.3 trillion budget deficit. 14?, 15?, 16?, trillion debt. Anemic GDP growth. A stifling regulatory environment. A health care package that more and more people find troubling.

You forgot having to address The Great Recession, the totally unnecessary war in Iraq that he has ended, the killing of OBL and other terrorist leaders (and some pirates), the elimination of pre-existing conditions for kids needing health insurance and other needed improvements to our health system.

Quoting fr8mech (Reply 33):
would rather distract us with innuendo, allegations and outright fabrications.

Like Swift Boats?
Like Birthers?
 
fr8mech
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RE: Harry Reid (D-NV): A Liar?

Sat Aug 04, 2012 6:02 pm

So, let me get this straight......

It's ok for the senate majority leader to go to the media and to floor of The Senate and make baseless claims, without any proof, other than "he said so"? Hell, I would't have minded half so much if he kept it off The Senate floor.

Sorry, I don't buy it.

You guys can rationalize it all you want, but Harry Reid (D-NV) has lied to the people, not just for his own political gain, but to plant the seed that the presumptive candidate for the GOP nomination is some sort of tax cheat or criminal.

Quoting seb146 (Reply 41):
Which are up to the House

When was the last time the Democratic controlled Senate took up a budget? As I recall, the GOP controlled House has passed a budget each time it's been brought up.

Quoting Ken777 (Reply 46):
Was he a friend of Madoff? Did he invest with Madoff? Did he get all of his investments back, plus a big profit?

Oh, more baseless accusations. Did you make this one up yourself, or is it a new Democratic Party talking point?

[Edited 2012-08-04 11:06:35]
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mt99
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RE: Harry Reid (D-NV): A Liar?

Sat Aug 04, 2012 6:41 pm

Quoting fr8mech (Reply 47):
Hell, I would't have minded half so much if he kept it off The Senate floor.

Yes you would have

Quoting fr8mech (Reply 47):
So, let me get this straight......

It's ok for the senate majority leader to go to the media and to floor of The Senate and make baseless claims,

Be that as it may - I'll even agree with you - if you answer the following questions directly:

1) Do you think that Romney should release more tax returns?

2) Do you think he is hiding something that can hurt him politically?
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Ken777
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RE: Harry Reid (D-NV): A Liar?

Sat Aug 04, 2012 6:41 pm

Quoting fr8mech (Reply 47):
When was the last time the Democratic controlled Senate took up a budget?

When was the last tie the House delivered a budget that the Senate could have passed without gagging?

Quoting fr8mech (Reply 47):
You guys can rationalize it all you want, but Harry Reid (D-NV) has lied to the people, not just for his own political gain, but to plant the seed that the presumptive candidate for the GOP nomination is some sort of tax cheat or criminal.

After the Swift Boat and Birthers issues it is pretty thin to complain about Reid's comments.

Quoting fr8mech (Reply 47):
Did you make this one up yourself

Sure did.

It was a logical thought considering that the two were working in New York at the same time. Don't believe that Mitt got in on some of that action when Madoff was paying out the big "dividends"? I wouldn't be surprised at all if Mitt was pulling in some of those profits - it is simply too logical.

But, of course, Willard can clear this all up, as well as other questions, by manning up to his Dad's standards and releasing the last 12 years of tax returns.

If he doesn't then I will continue to believe that a Madoff connection was POSSIBLE.
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