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Proud To Be Conservative?

Thu Aug 09, 2012 12:28 pm

I hear a lot of people using the word conservative with great pride these days.

Here's what the thesaurus at dictionary.com lists for synonyms for "conservative":

Tory, bourgeois, constant, controlled, conventional, die-hard, fearful, firm, fogyish, fuddy-duddy, guarded, hard hat, hidebound, holding to, illiberal, in a rut, inflexible, middle-of-the-road, not extreme, obstinate, old guard, old line, orthodox, quiet, reactionary, redneck, right, right of center, right-wing, sober, stable, steady, timid, traditional, traditionalistic, unchangeable, unchanging, uncreative, undaring, unimaginative, unprogressive, white bread

Doesn't sound like much to be proud of, eh?

Here's what it has for liberal:

advanced, avant-garde, broad, broad-minded, catholic, enlightened, flexible, free, general, high-minded, humanistic, humanitarian, indulgent, intelligent, interested, latitudinarian, left, lenient, libertarian, loose, magnanimous, permissive, radical, rational, reasonable, receiving, receptive, reformist, tolerant, unbiased, unbigoted, unconventional, understanding, unorthodox, unprejudiced

Comments?
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PACOTS
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RE: Proud To Be Conservative?

Thu Aug 09, 2012 1:04 pm

one thing: I wouldn't call "catholic" a synonym for liberal.
 
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Dreadnought
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RE: Proud To Be Conservative?

Thu Aug 09, 2012 1:16 pm

Quoting Revelation (Thread starter):
Comments?

Sounds like Dictionary.com got hacked.
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ALTF4
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RE: Proud To Be Conservative?

Thu Aug 09, 2012 1:22 pm

Quoting Revelation (Thread starter):
catholic

LOL

I'll be making excessive use of that, especially when liberals don't like religious folks. "Wait, but aren't you catholic?".

Classic.

Anyway, if we constrain our lives to a dictionary, we've reached a new low. I don't need a dictionary to tell me how to live - it is not a moral compass.
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Rara
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RE: Proud To Be Conservative?

Thu Aug 09, 2012 1:29 pm

There is a certain Elitist bias in those definitions. Generally, the more intelligent and educated people are, the more progressive they will be. The strongest conservative views are commonly found at the other end of the spectrum. Now, dictionaries and thereby definitions are commonly written by highly educated people. They’re by no means neutral or objective. It’s no wonder they’d associate conservatism with otherwise negative attributes.

By the way, the conservative/liberal dichotomy is an American thing. In Germany, for instance, conservatives and liberals share one end of the political spectrum (the right), the other being progressive / socialist (the left).
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bjorn14
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RE: Proud To Be Conservative?

Thu Aug 09, 2012 1:33 pm

Quoting PACOTS (Reply 1):
one thing: I wouldn't call "catholic" a synonym for liberal.

It's small "c" so it means universal.
"I want to know the voice of God the rest is just details" --A. Einstein
 
Quokkas
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RE: Proud To Be Conservative?

Thu Aug 09, 2012 1:40 pm

Quoting PACOTS (Reply 1):
one thing: I wouldn't call "catholic" a synonym for liberal.

But catholic as an adjective means,
1. broad or wide-ranging in tastes, interests, or the like; having sympathies with all; broad-minded; liberal.

2. universal in extent; involving all; of interest to all.

3. pertaining to the whole Christian body or church

But most people probably think of the corporation that has its headquarters in the Vatican City.

Quoting rara (Reply 4):
In Germany, for instance, conservatives and liberals share one end of the political spectrum (the right), the other being progressive / socialist (the left).

Oddly enough, here in Australia the conservative (i.e. pro-business / hostile to unions) party is called the Liberal Party.
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RE: Proud To Be Conservative?

Thu Aug 09, 2012 3:48 pm

Both conservative and liberal are misused in the US in my opinion. The "liberals" want more regulation and socialized stuff, that's every true liberal nightmare. The "conservatives" want to scrap everything and conserve nothing.

By comparison liberals here are right-wing (because of their emphasis on the free market above all) and almost irrelevant, the main right-wing politicians certainly don't want to be seen as liberal. On the other hand they don't want to be called conservative either, as it indeed implies that "things were better before", and that would not make them win any election. So, while being proud to be right-wing (something relatively new) they also say they're progressive and want to advance society, they just don't think the way the left wants to do it is the right way.
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ALTF4
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RE: Proud To Be Conservative?

Thu Aug 09, 2012 3:54 pm

Quoting Aesma (Reply 7):
So, I must admit I'm not well versed in politics outside the U.S., but party names and relative alignment have always interested me. I'd love to find a non-biased (are we all done laughing now?) source that 'maps' political spectrums among different countries. Some things, I think, are simply cultural differences in one country but a politicized issue in another, so that 'map' would have to take into account different hot-button topics globally and compare them.

I think it would be eye-opening for most, including myself.

[Edited 2012-08-09 15:28:46 by srbmod]
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RE: Proud To Be Conservative?

Thu Aug 09, 2012 4:37 pm

Quoting bjorn14 (Reply 5):
It's small "c" so it means universal.

Indeed. Growing up in a Protestant church, we used to pray for the Holy "c"atholic Church!

I asked why, and was told exactly what you said, "c"atholic means universal.

Quoting rara (Reply 4):
There is a certain Elitist bias in those definitions.

Yeah, kinda.

Some of the things it says about "conservative" that I think fit pretty well:

Quoting Revelation (Thread starter):
fearful
Quoting Revelation (Thread starter):
unchangeable, unchanging, uncreative, undaring, unimaginative

Some of the things it says about "liberal" that I think fit pretty well:

Quoting Revelation (Thread starter):
humanitarian
Quoting Revelation (Thread starter):
reasonable
Quoting Revelation (Thread starter):
receptive
Quoting Revelation (Thread starter):
unbiased, unbigoted, unconventional, understanding, unorthodox, unprejudiced

It's strange how many "un" words I find fit.

I guess I might be said to have an elitist bias, but IMHO I'm far from an elitist . I was raised by immigrants and am the successful product of public schools and universities.

The part that does fit well is educated.

If I had to rely on private sector education, it just wouldn't have happened. I was told that at the time, and I still believe it 100%. I probably at best would have spent the last two decades working in a factory (not that there's anything at all wrong with that!), and probably would now be unemployed like many of the people in my hometown now are. Now I'm contributing a lot to society via my work and my efforts to educate others, and am paying back what I was given earlier via taxes.

If that makes me sound like an elitist, so be it.
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Aesma
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RE: Proud To Be Conservative?

Thu Aug 09, 2012 5:40 pm

Quoting ALTF4 (Reply 8):
So, I must admit I'm not well versed in politics outside the U.S., but party names and relative alignment have always interested me. I'd love to find a non-biased (are we all done laughing now?) source that 'maps' political spectrums among different countries. Some things, I think, are simply cultural differences in one country but a politicized issue in another, so that 'map' would have to take into account different hot-button topics globally and compare them.

I think it would be eye-opening for most, including myself.

I think I've seen that but don't remember where right now. You're right that some topics are more politicized in some places than others, for example abortion in the US is always mentioned during campaigns, when here even the extreme right has dropped its ban from its platform because it proved too unpopular (and it was a right-wing government that legalized it in the 70's, not a constitutional court decision).

Another problem is that each country has a different society/laws and history, and so something progressive that Obama is trying to do with health care is something that others have been provided with for more than half a century and that no politician would dare to significantly touch. Same with gun laws, a French politician advocating free sale of handguns would be looked at as a loony, when it's perfectly normal in the US across party lines.

It has been said that the democrats would be right-wing on the French political spectrum, based on the current situation of the US vs France, but to me it's not the appropriate way to look at things. What is important is the direction a party wants to steer its country towards. And clearly Obama is aiming left, while the GOP would be extreme right (if they really intended to apply what they preach, that is).
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RE: Proud To Be Conservative?

Thu Aug 09, 2012 5:56 pm

I think one area where US and EU sees similar left/right divides is over immigration policy.
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vikkyvik
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RE: Proud To Be Conservative?

Thu Aug 09, 2012 6:34 pm

Quoting ALTF4 (Reply 3):
I don't need a dictionary to tell me how to live - it is not a moral compass.

This is only very loosely related, but I feel the same way about God.

And yet people (mostly conservative it seems) ask me how I know right from wrong.

Anyway, just thinking out loud; I have nothing against either side, really. Or I should say, I am equally biased against both sides.
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RE: Proud To Be Conservative?

Thu Aug 09, 2012 8:24 pm

Quoting Dreadnought (Reply 2):
Sounds like Dictionary.com got hacked

   Those definitions are so biased its not even funny. Liberals are so opened minded that their brains fall out. Except when it comes to someone who disagrees with them then they arwe the most intolerant people you ever want to meet.
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RE: Proud To Be Conservative?

Thu Aug 09, 2012 8:50 pm

Quoting Aesma (Reply 7):
Both conservative and liberal are misused in the US in my opinion.

   misused and overused

None, not a single one, of these "either ... or ..." dichotomies is anything but a counterproductive oversimplification. It does no one but the simplest of minds any justice and helps only the people who make money from that simplicity.
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RE: Proud To Be Conservative?

Thu Aug 09, 2012 8:57 pm

Quoting aloges (Reply 14):
None, not a single one, of these "either ... or ..." dichotomies is anything but a counterproductive oversimplification. It does no one but the simplest of minds any justice and helps only the people who make money from that simplicity.

Well said.
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RE: Proud To Be Conservative?

Thu Aug 09, 2012 10:48 pm

Quoting Revelation (Thread starter):
Comments?

I don't know... someone using dictionary.com to define people is pretty sad.

If we are talking about conservative pride, keep in mind, I know many of them, and they aren't exactly impressed with the far-right, Tea Party AFTER it got hijacked, religious-right, the Republican party, etc.

Very anecdotal, but when I see people's political views on FB, they will say "conservative" way more than "Republican." It's hard to define what conservative is... I would think it would be someone against the Patriot Act, yet it was started by Republicans and so called conservatives...

There is socially conservative and then there's fiscally conservative. People can be both, one or the other, or neither. The fiscal conservatives are not just the 1%ers... my fiancee's dad at one time was eligible for food stamps for his family but refused them... he believed it was his responsibility, not the governments, to put food on his table. So he worked even harder and achieved that goal by himself.

tl;dr conservative is a very broad term, and this thread looks like it is just flamebait or at the very least, accidental stereotyping. I don't think anyone is proud to be:

Quoting Revelation (Thread starter):
Tory, bourgeois, constant, controlled, conventional, die-hard, fearful, firm, fogyish, fuddy-duddy, guarded, hard hat, hidebound, holding to, illiberal, in a rut, inflexible, middle-of-the-road, not extreme, obstinate, old guard, old line, orthodox, quiet, reactionary, redneck, right, right of center, right-wing, sober, stable, steady, timid, traditional, traditionalistic, unchangeable, unchanging, uncreative, undaring, unimaginative, unprogressive, white bread
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Mir
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RE: Proud To Be Conservative?

Fri Aug 10, 2012 12:09 am

Quoting ALTF4 (Reply 3):
Anyway, if we constrain our lives to a dictionary, we've reached a new low.

   This thread would have a whole lot more value if it were actually comparing policies (i.e. "are you proud to support trickle-down economics? are you proud to support increased government spending on the military?, etc.).

Quoting bjorn14 (Reply 13):
Those definitions are so biased its not even funny.

No, those are the English definitions that you'd find in a dictionary. It doesn't mean much when it comes to describing political views, but it's ridiculous to accuse the English language of having a liberal bias (if it did, why would so many conservatives want it to be the official language of the US?).

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Pyrex
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RE: Proud To Be Conservative?

Fri Aug 10, 2012 1:34 am

This whole thread is so ridiculous it is probably not even worth commenting, but here are a few observations on your definition of liberal anyway, just for shits and giggles.

Quoting Revelation (Thread starter):
libertarian

In the U.S. political context, nothing could be further from the truth.

Quoting Revelation (Thread starter):
broad-minded

Tolerant of everybody's beliefs provided it matches their own.

Quoting Revelation (Thread starter):
radical
Quoting Revelation (Thread starter):
rational

How can you be these two things at the same time? These things are opposites, which one is it?

Quoting Revelation (Thread starter):
reformist

(just picked one word at random because, surprisingly, Progressive, that most ridiculous of words, is absent)

Liberals would be protesting the loss of good-paying, local, buggy-whip manufacturer jobs in front of Henry Ford's factories if they lived in the early 20th century... not to mention their reaction every time someone suggests reforming one of their pet programs even in the face of obvious failure.
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RE: Proud To Be Conservative?

Fri Aug 10, 2012 1:57 am

I have always thought it's ironic that the right wing in this country call themselves 'conservative'



This is the same group of people who support no limits for anyone on gun ownership.
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aloges
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RE: Proud To Be Conservative?

Fri Aug 10, 2012 3:06 am

Quoting aloges (Reply 14):
None, not a single one, of these "either ... or ..." dichotomies is anything but a counterproductive oversimplification. It does no one but the simplest of minds any justice and helps only the people who make money from that simplicity.
Quoting vikkyvik (Reply 15):
Well said.

Thanks... it does seem to be a wasted effort, though.

Quoting Pyrex (Reply 18):
Liberals would be

Oh well.
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RE: Proud To Be Conservative?

Fri Aug 10, 2012 5:19 am

Quoting Max Q (Reply 19):

I have always thought it's ironic that the right wing in this country call themselves 'conservative'



This is the same group of people who support no limits for anyone on gun ownership.

I know plenty of conservatives that are for some reasonable gun measures, how come if they fall short of your opinion they are "nuts?" What makes your opinion better? And what is ironic about your statement? Traditionally, conservatives have been more pro-gun... more randomness in this strange thread...
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Quokkas
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RE: Proud To Be Conservative?

Fri Aug 10, 2012 5:26 am

Quoting Pyrex (Reply 18):
How can you be these two things at the same time? These things are opposites, which one is it?

Since when does being rational prevent one from being radical? Do not forget that the Founding Fathers were in many ways both rational and radical. Rational may mean open to reason, being lucid and having sound judgement. Radical may mean going to the root of things, which I would have thought necessary for any rational thought.
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Geezer
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RE: Proud To Be Conservative?

Fri Aug 10, 2012 6:20 am

Quoting Max Q (Reply 19):
I have always thought it's ironic that the right wing in this country call themselves 'conservative'

Max; there is a lot of "irony" about these days !

This is the same group of people who support no limits for anyone on gun ownership.

Inasmuch as I don't wish to wander "off topic", I'll refrain from mentioning "gun ownership" ( I will shortly be starting a thread on that topic )

Quoting Revelation (Thread starter):
Comments?

So..........you have a dictionary that says liberals are "brilliant" and conservatives are "idiots", ( or words to that effect ) ?
( I wonder why that doesn't surprise me ? ) I'm guessing that if you were do a little research you would probably find that the company who printed that "dictionary" is either owned or controlled by George Soros. ( Who has about as much credibility in my book as Rosie O'Donnell )

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RE: Proud To Be Conservative?

Fri Aug 10, 2012 6:24 am

Quoting Mir (Reply 17):

No, those are the English definitions that you'd find in a dictionary

Thesaurus, which is slightly different. Also, dictionary.com is not very reliable for that sort of stuff. It lists both "inflexible" and "not extreme" as synonyms for conservative, and "tolerant" and "radical" for liberal. Clearly contradictory.

Quoting DeltaMD90 (Reply 21):

I know plenty of conservatives that are for some reasonable gun measures, how come if they fall short of your opinion they are "nuts?" What makes your opinion better? And what is ironic about your statement? Traditionally, conservatives have been more pro-gun... more randomness in this strange thread...

He's been going around all the threads trolling in the same fashion. Just ignore it.
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Superfly
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RE: Proud To Be Conservative?

Fri Aug 10, 2012 7:43 am

Quoting Revelation (Thread starter):
white bread

I've always prefered wheat bread. Does that make me a liberal?

Quoting Revelation (Thread starter):
receiving,

So all liberals are 'bottoms'?   
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aloges
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RE: Proud To Be Conservative?

Fri Aug 10, 2012 9:17 am

Quoting Pyrex (Reply 18):
How can you be these two things at the same time? These things are opposites, which one is it?
Quoting Maverick623 (Reply 24):
"tolerant" and "radical" for liberal. Clearly contradictory.

"Radical" is not the same as "extreme".
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Rara
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RE: Proud To Be Conservative?

Fri Aug 10, 2012 9:25 am

Quoting Pyrex (Reply 18):
Quoting Revelation (Thread starter):
radical
Quoting Revelation (Thread starter):
rational

How can you be these two things at the same time? These things are opposites, which one is it?

Elaborate? I could easily construct a radical-rational position. For instance, finding it okay to eat meat from humans who died naturally could be called radical-rational. Rationally there’s no problem with that, because nobody is harmed. It makes “sense” because nutrients are consumed rather than wasted. Still most people, myself included, wouldn’t go so far.

Quoting Maverick623 (Reply 24):
It lists both "inflexible" and "not extreme" as synonyms for conservative, and "tolerant" and "radical" for liberal. Clearly contradictory.

Language definitions aren't meant to be free of contradiction. Depending on context, words may take on an exact opposite meaning, like this nice story shows:

An MIT linguistics professor was lecturing his class the other day. "In English," he said, "a double negative forms a positive. However, in some languages, such as Russian, a double negative remains a negative. But there isn't a single language, not one, in which a double positive can express a negative."

A voice from the back of the room piped up, "Yeah, right."
Samson was a biblical tough guy, but his dad Samsonite was even more of a hard case.
 
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RE: Proud To Be Conservative?

Fri Aug 10, 2012 11:07 am

Quoting ALTF4 (Reply 3):
Anyway, if we constrain our lives to a dictionary, we've reached a new low. I don't need a dictionary to tell me how to live - it is not a moral compass.

Communication is important yet imperfect, and we're stuck with the words we have, at least till other ones come into common use.

I didn't say anything about living our lives based on dictionary meaning of things, but in theory at least a dictionary or thesaurus should help us understand the various definitions of words and the contexts in which they get used.

Quoting DeltaMD90 (Reply 16):
Very anecdotal, but when I see people's political views on FB, they will say "conservative" way more than "Republican."

That gets to the heart of the matter: Why is the term "conservative" favored?

I was in a waiting room where someone had put on Fox (sigh), and they were playing a snip of Limbaugh (sigh), and all involved enunciated the word "conservative" with such reverence, and the word "liberal" with such disdain and contempt, and I wondered why they all made the effort to do that.

It made me think they weren't happy with the words themselves, so they had to put a spin onto them.

Folks, this is the media, and all the talking heads from both sides of the spectrum have producers behind them, who have managers and executives behind them, who have meetings to discuss such things all the time. The way everyone involved was behaving seemed to me to be no accident.

On the liberal side, speakers tend to talk in very moderate tones even while describing many policies that liberals are also very unwilling to compromise on. I think the use of moderate tones and words is also a deliberately chosen affectation, it makes them sound moderate even when they aren't being moderate.

These things are being done to make the cash registers ring. The choice of words and the tones in which they are spoken are run through meetings and then screening sessions. There's lots of serious research on the topic, and for the media, the goal is engage their target audience and keep them engaged, which of course makes the cash registers ring louder, and this is all a means to that end.

This got me thinking about the words themselves, why they were chosen, and what they actually mean.

The word associations that popped into my head for conservative were at first "risk adverse" and then "resistant to change".

The most charitable term I could come up with was "traditional".

Quoting Mir (Reply 17):
This thread would have a whole lot more value if it were actually comparing policies

There's plenty of threads on all the various policies... We've both been there and done them, and chances are good we'll be bashing them out many more times to come.
Inspiration, move me brightly! Light the song with sense and color.
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us330
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RE: Proud To Be Conservative?

Fri Aug 10, 2012 11:46 am

Interesting that people have noted the difference in meaning between Catholic and catholic, but none have bothered to point out that Conservative and conservative and Liberal and liberal could also mean different things. The meaning of the lower-case versions have no impact on the meanings of the upper-case versions. capital "C" Conservatives can be liberal, and capital "L" Liberals can be conservative.
 
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RE: Proud To Be Conservative?

Fri Aug 10, 2012 4:20 pm

Quoting Mir (Reply 17):
it's ridiculous to accuse the English language of having a liberal bias

Who writes the thesaurus?
 
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RE: Proud To Be Conservative?

Fri Aug 10, 2012 4:24 pm

Quoting us330 (Reply 29):
The meaning of the lower-case versions have no impact on the meanings of the upper-case versions.

I completely disagree.

The Catholic Church based their name on the word "catholic" because it meant "universal", not because it meant "ham sandwich". They were trying to draw attention to the fact that they were the "universal" church as opposed to those Orthodox folks who set up shop in the city then known as Constantinople (after the Emperor Constantine) now known as Istanbul. The Orthodox chose their name to signify that they were the true "keepers of the faith", as opposed to those "unorthodox" folks in Rome. If they had a motto, it would be "we're smaller but better".

We don't even have a "big C" Conservative Party here in the US, but US "little c" conservatives prefer that term over Republican, which has to mean something, no?
Inspiration, move me brightly! Light the song with sense and color.
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Acheron
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RE: Proud To Be Conservative?

Fri Aug 10, 2012 6:18 pm

Quoting Aesma (Reply 7):
Both conservative and liberal are misused in the US in my opinion.

Along with "left", "communism" and "socialism".

Most americans wouldn't notice any of those things even if it smacked them in the middle of the face, since they don't have any truly leftist party(that matters).
 
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RE: Proud To Be Conservative?

Fri Aug 10, 2012 7:08 pm

Quoting bjorn14 (Reply 13):

Quoting Dreadnought (Reply 2):
Sounds like Dictionary.com got hacked

   Those definitions are so biased its not even funny. Liberals are so opened minded that their brains fall out. Except when it comes to someone who disagrees with them then they arwe the most intolerant people you ever want to meet.

Then,ok you're a racist by them.Get it out.(lol) I would say that greatly applies more to ultra liberals.Not liberals.Not Moderate left.

But these definitions seemed to be by very biased people who cut and paste to fit they're lifestyle.Just like the Bible.
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Mir
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RE: Proud To Be Conservative?

Fri Aug 10, 2012 9:02 pm

Quoting mham001 (Reply 30):
Who writes the thesaurus?

Nobody writes a thesaurus. People edit them, but the content itself isn't really up to them - that comes from common usage of the English language.

-Mir
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RE: Proud To Be Conservative?

Fri Aug 10, 2012 9:34 pm

Quoting mham001 (Reply 30):
Quoting Mir (Reply 17):
it's ridiculous to accuse the English language of having a liberal bias

Who writes the thesaurus?

It's them pointed headed, ivory tower living, edumacated, teacher type's, that think they know better then us! Those SOB's! Damn if them colleges and univercity's just wouldn't brainwash all them poor students they have in their clutches, the world would be a better place!

Quoting Revelation (Thread starter):
Comments?

The truth is, most people do not fully understand the words they use in everyday language. And they just don't care enough to learn how to speak right.....  

But seriously, I do try to use a broadly selection of words for what I say so I can actually present my idea in a coherent fashion.

I myself am very happy to be able to use both words to describe myself and my political beliefs and ideals (get called a RINO a lot for that). That anyone would want to be pinned down to one word is silly. Instead, I can be:

Tory and advanced
Bourgeois and avant-garde
Constant and broad
Controlled and broad-minded
Conventional and catholic
Die-hard and enlightened
Fearful and flexible
Firm and free
Fuddy-duddy and general
Guarded and high-minded
Hard hat and humanistic
Hidebound and humanitarian
In a rut and indulgent
Inflexible and intelligent
Middle-of-the-road and interested
Not extreme and latitudinarian
Obstinate and left
Old guard and lenient
Orthodox and libertarian
Quiet and loose
Reactionary and magnanimous
Redneck and permissive
Right-wing and radical
Sober and rational
Stable and reasonable
Steady and receiving
Timid and receptive
Traditional and reformist
Unchangeable and tolerant
Unchanging and unbiased
Uncreative and unbigoted
Undaring and unconventional
Unimaginative and understanding
Unprogressive and unorthodox
White bread and unprejudiced

Best (and worst) of both worlds.

Tugg
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Maverick623
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RE: Proud To Be Conservative?

Sun Aug 12, 2012 10:00 pm

Quoting rara (Reply 27):

Language definitions aren't meant to be free of contradiction.

Not necessarily, but it's not just the definitions, it's the context in which they are presented.

Quoting rara (Reply 27):
But there isn't a single language, not one, in which a double positive can express a negative."

A voice from the back of the room piped up, "Yeah, right."

Other issues with the MIT professor's assertions aside (i.e., he was narrow in his definitions at best, and wrong at worst), the "voice from the back" was using a rhetorical device called sarcasm.

Quoting aloges (Reply 26):

"Radical" is not the same as "extreme".

From the same website:

rad·i·cal
   [rad-i-kuhl]
adjective
1.
of or going to the root or origin; fundamental: a radical difference.
2.
thoroughgoing or extreme, especially as regards change from accepted or traditional forms: a radical change in the policy of a company.
"PHX is Phoenix, PDX is the other city" -777Way
 
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DeltaMD90
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RE: Proud To Be Conservative?

Mon Aug 13, 2012 11:55 pm

Quoting Revelation (Reply 28):
Communication is important yet imperfect, and we're stuck with the words we have, at least till other ones come into common use.

So dictionary.com is the end-all when it comes to definitions? Aren't people saying these definitions got trolled anyway? Who cares what dictionary.com says?

Quoting Revelation (Reply 28):
On the liberal side, speakers tend to talk in very moderate tones even while describing many policies that liberals are also very unwilling to compromise on. I think the use of moderate tones and words is also a deliberately chosen affectation, it makes them sound moderate even when they aren't being moderate.

Like that one liberal talkshow host cussing and screaming about CFA appreciation day? Craziness goes both ways.

Way too much generalizations going around...
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cedarjet
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RE: Proud To Be Conservative?

Tue Aug 14, 2012 12:38 am

Quoting Pyrex (Reply 18):
Liberals would be protesting the loss of good-paying, local, buggy-whip manufacturer jobs in front of Henry Ford's factories if they lived in the early 20th century...

Don't know about the US, but in the UK, it's been the left that has traditionally been at the forefront of progress - from building tower blocks (in American, "Housing projects") to the Concorde to the NHS (National Health Service). Yes, even Concorde - it's greatest champion is one of the most left-wing politicians we've ever had, Anthony Wedgwood Benn. (And he wasn't the only one!)

Quoting Acheron (Reply 32):
Most americans wouldn't notice any of those things even if it smacked them in the middle of the face, since they don't have any truly leftist party(that matters).

This is totally true. One of the most laughable things about America's debased political dialogue is the notion that Obama is a leftist (let alone a socialist) - extending tax cuts for the rich, dreaming up a "socialised" medical system that puts private insurance companies at it's centre, increased funding for the military in every budget (inc keeping GITMO and killing OBL). If anyone is disappointed with Obama as a president it should be what passes for the left in the USA. The right should be absolutely delighted.
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Pyrex
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RE: Proud To Be Conservative?

Tue Aug 14, 2012 12:38 pm

Quoting cedarjet (Reply 38):
it's been the left that has traditionally been at the forefront of progress

"Progress" defined as "everything I believe in". Typical leftist attitude.
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flyingturtle
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RE: Proud To Be Conservative?

Tue Aug 14, 2012 1:09 pm

Quoting aloges (Reply 26):
"Radical" is not the same as "extreme".

   In French-speaking Switzerland, the liberal party is called the "radical party".

Quoting Revelation (Reply 28):
This got me thinking about the words themselves, why they were chosen, and what they actually mean.

The word associations that popped into my head for conservative were at first "risk adverse" and then "resistant to change".

The most charitable term I could come up with was "traditional".

I really agree with you, you conservative! 

You'll also find very conservative people in leftist parties. Ones want to reform socialism by accepting that some stuff should and cannot be regulated by the state, and others want to keep the "true spirit" of the doctrine. I've seen a trend to designate politicians not only as "left" or "right", but also as "left-liberal" or "left-conservative".

Quoting cedarjet (Reply 38):
Don't know about the US, but in the UK, it's been the left that has traditionally been at the forefront of progress

It's also very striking that many writers of future utopias (1984, A Clockwork Orange) have been left-leaning or leftists. I've got a feeling that left-leaning people do care for our future, while right-leaning people want to preserve the past.



David
Keeping calm is terrorism against those who want to live in fear.
 
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Revelation
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RE: Proud To Be Conservative?

Tue Aug 14, 2012 1:59 pm

Quoting flyingturtle (Reply 40):
I really agree with you, you conservative!

You'll also find very conservative people in leftist parties.

I'll accept that, one intelligent a-hole to another! 

But here things really are polarized.

I can see why some liberals can be viewed as being unwilling to change, but of course, we're right!  
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Rara
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RE: Proud To Be Conservative?

Tue Aug 14, 2012 3:39 pm

Quoting Pyrex (Reply 39):
"Progress" defined as "everything I believe in". Typical leftist attitude.

No, "progress" defined as "progress". Do we concentrate on conserving good things, or do we concentrate on replacing bad things with good things? Conservatives favour the former, progressives the latter. There are good arguments to be made for both viewpoints, it's just a disagreement about priorities.
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aloges
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RE: Proud To Be Conservative?

Tue Aug 14, 2012 4:45 pm

Quoting Maverick623 (Reply 36):
From the same website:

rad·i·cal
   [rad-i-kuhl]
adjective
1.
of or going to the root or origin; fundamental: a radical difference.
2.
thoroughgoing or extreme, especially as regards change from accepted or traditional forms: a radical change in the policy of a company.

Errr... thanks for making my point, but I don't think it was necessary.    It can be used and/or interpreted to mean the same as "extreme", as much as something rather different. So it isn't the same.
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Maverick623
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RE: Proud To Be Conservative?

Tue Aug 14, 2012 9:30 pm

Quoting flyingturtle (Reply 40):
In French-speaking Switzerland, the liberal party is called the "radical party".

We're in a discussion about the English language.

Quoting aloges (Reply 43):
It can be used and/or interpreted to mean the same as "extreme", as much as something rather different. So it isn't the same.

So it is, but it isn't. Guess it depends on what your definition of "is" is?
"PHX is Phoenix, PDX is the other city" -777Way
 
flyingturtle
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RE: Proud To Be Conservative?

Tue Aug 14, 2012 9:49 pm

Quoting Maverick623 (Reply 44):
We're in a discussion about the English language.

But it is illustrating the other meaning of "radical", Maverick.
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Maverick623
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RE: Proud To Be Conservative?

Wed Aug 15, 2012 7:27 pm

Quoting flyingturtle (Reply 45):
But it is illustrating the other meaning of "radical"

In French.
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RE: Proud To Be Conservative?

Wed Aug 15, 2012 8:11 pm

Quoting Maverick623 (Reply 46):

   You're a little averse to the French language.

English is a very old German with lots of very old French words. Entrepreneur? Surveillance? City? Police? The "Corps" in USMC?



David
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Tugger
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RE: Proud To Be Conservative?

Wed Aug 15, 2012 8:26 pm

Quoting Maverick623 (Reply 44):
We're in a discussion about the English language.

But what are the roots of all English words??? That leads to their definitions and use in the language.

Simply put, English has many, many words form many other languages.

Tugg
I don’t know that I am unafraid to be myself, but it is hard to be somebody else. -W. Shatner
 
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yyz717
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RE: Proud To Be Conservative?

Mon Aug 20, 2012 2:30 pm

I'm a proud Canadian conservative, which means:
1. Strong belief in the private sector to grow the economy (similar to US conservatives),
2. A strong military (similar)
3. Small government (similar)
4. Most importantly....I vote Conservative.
5. Balance budgets (unlike US conservatives)
6. Strong gun control (unlike US conservatives)
7. Support of gay marriage (unlike US conservatives)
8. Support of abortion rights (unlike US conservatives)

US conservatives need to get on the bandwagon with the last 4 points....you are embarassing non-American conservatives and you are living in the last century on these 4 points.
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