AlnessW
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Stupid Underage Question-Alcohol Always Expensive?

Thu Aug 16, 2012 6:31 pm

Hey folks, bear with me here as I am going to ask a dumb question, coming from underaged kid...

Is alcohol always really expensive?

The reason I ask this is because at most any public place I've been to that serves alcohol (restaurants, hotels, even airlines, trains, etc) charges between $5-$8 for a cocktail, glass of wine, even a beer! I've always thought this seemed pretty steep when you can get a glass of soda, lemonade, iced tea, etc for around $2 at the same venue.

So I ask... Is this typical? Are drinks any cheaper at bars, clubs, casinos, etc?

I'm 17 so obviously I still have a few more years before I can drink, but I'm curious.

Thanks!  
 
lewis
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RE: Stupid Underage Question-Alcohol Always Expensive?

Thu Aug 16, 2012 6:44 pm

Quoting AlnessW (Thread starter):
charges between $5-$8 for a cocktail

I have been to bars where you can get a beer for $3 and a regular drink for $4. Cocktails may go a bit higher than that. I don't consider those prices really expensive but it also depends on the type of bar you visit and its location.
 
flipdewaf
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RE: Stupid Underage Question-Alcohol Always Expensive?

Thu Aug 16, 2012 6:45 pm

Dunno about over there but a pint here is between £3-4 depending in where you are (real pints mind) which is about $5-7 I suppose. I think it's probably a little cheaper here but you'll pay nearly the same for a soft drink at a pub.

Very different culture over here though, people start drinking at a much earlier age. At 17 I would think most here wouldn't think twice about going and getting some booze (although maybe times have changed).

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DeltaMD90
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RE: Stupid Underage Question-Alcohol Always Expensive?

Thu Aug 16, 2012 6:47 pm

4 Lokos are very cheap for what you get... not sure if you drink or not (don't really care either as long as you're responsible) but I can assure you, stay away from those lol.

And if you think it's expensive here, try getting a beer in Norway!   
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nighthawk
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RE: Stupid Underage Question-Alcohol Always Expensive?

Thu Aug 16, 2012 6:49 pm

yes, those prices are fairly typical. Clubs tend to be even more expensive. Don't forget alcohol tends to be heavily taxed, whereas soft drinks are not taxed nearly as much.

However, a lot of bars will do promotions, during which the price will be discounted either at a particular time or a particular day. For example some places will do a student night on a Wednesday night, when the bar is usually quiet.
 
AlnessW
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RE: Stupid Underage Question-Alcohol Always Expensive?

Thu Aug 16, 2012 7:01 pm

Quoting lewis (Reply 1):
I have been to bars where you can get a beer for $3 and a regular drink for $4. Cocktails may go a bit higher than that. I don't consider those prices really expensive but it also depends on the type of bar you visit and its location.

Interesting to know.

Quoting flipdewaf (Reply 2):
Very different culture over here though, people start drinking at a much earlier age. At 17 I would think most here wouldn't think twice about going and getting some booze (although maybe times have changed).

What's the drinking age over there? I always thought 21 seemed too high for the US. (a different topic which will be spared for another thread.)

Quoting DeltaMD90 (Reply 3):
4 Lokos are very cheap for what you get... not sure if you drink or not (don't really care either as long as you're responsible) but I can assure you, stay away from those lol.

Yes, from I've read, I have heard nothing but bad news about Four Lokos!

Quoting DeltaMD90 (Reply 3):
And if you think it's expensive here, try getting a beer in Norway!

Pretty steep, I take it?

Quoting nighthawk (Reply 4):
yes, those prices are fairly typical. Clubs tend to be even more expensive. Don't forget alcohol tends to be heavily taxed

Interesting to know and you make a good point about taxes.

Quoting nighthawk (Reply 4):
whereas soft drinks are not taxed nearly as much.

Here in Oregon, soft drinks are not taxed. (But we do have a can and bottle deposit for many products.)

Quoting nighthawk (Reply 4):
However, a lot of bars will do promotions, during which the price will be discounted either at a particular time or a particular day. For example some places will do a student night on a Wednesday night, when the bar is usually quiet.

Ah, I see.
 
srbmod
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RE: Stupid Underage Question-Alcohol Always Expensive?

Thu Aug 16, 2012 7:03 pm

Quoting AlnessW (Thread starter):
Are drinks any cheaper at bars, clubs, casinos, etc?

Actually more expensive (even that "free" drink at a casino while gambling ends up costing more than it would had you gone to bar and bought one). There are exceptions those, as you will have specials like $2 beers and $3 shots, but in general, a bar, a club and a casino bar (if it is not one in which there are bar top video poker/slot machines in which you get comped drinks for a certain bet level) will be expensive. I've spent $10-15 a drink at bars here in Atlanta and in Las Vegas. Same is true with stadiums, arenas, and concert venues. $6-7 for a cup of Bud or $8-9 for a import beer or a craft beer. One of the worst ways to buy beer, wine or liquor is hotel room service. I've seen hotels charge 4 or 5 times what the same bottle would cost in a store. Clubs with VIP sections are just as bad or worse.

You'd be surprised at the markups on beverages in general. I work for a coffee and tea company and accounts pretty much pay for a pot a coffee as soon as the first cup is sold, as a pot of coffee costs them anywhere between 45-60 cents depending on the pack size or the grind amount if using whole bean coffee (1.5 oz, 1.75 oz, 2 oz., 2.25 oz, 2.5 oz, 6 oz) and the coffee blend being used. The typical account charges 79-89 cents for a small coffee (12 oz), 99 cents to $1.09 for a medium (16 oz) and $1.19-1.29 for a large (20 oz). Even after factoring in the cost of sugar, cream, lid for the coffee cup and the stir stick the customer users, the store has paid for that pot of coffee after one cup. Tea is even more profitable. For example, four gallons of tea (a typical amount that restaurants brew at a time) will cost $1-1.15 to brew (depending on if it is unsweetened or sweet tea). Let's say the restaurant uses a 16 oz cup to serve tea in and charges $1.49. Even with free refills, they make a profit as soon as the first glass is sold. They can come close to paying for the entire case of tea off of one batch of tea. That's a lot of profit on beverages, but other areas have much slimmer margins and is where a restaurant can get into the hole.

There's a pretty decent profit to be made with booze as well, but you do have more risks of employee pilferage as they may "forget" to ring up drink orders for friends or they may be a bit too generous with their pours, or they simply pour drinks for themselves. They're charging $8-9 for a beer that costs that much (or maybe a dollar or two more) for a six pack in a grocery store or liquor store.
 
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DeltaMD90
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RE: Stupid Underage Question-Alcohol Always Expensive?

Thu Aug 16, 2012 7:22 pm

Quoting AlnessW (Reply 5):
Quoting DeltaMD90 (Reply 3):
4 Lokos are very cheap for what you get... not sure if you drink or not (don't really care either as long as you're responsible) but I can assure you, stay away from those lol.

Yes, from I've read, I have heard nothing but bad news about Four Lokos!

Well take it from me too  
Quoting AlnessW (Reply 5):
Quoting DeltaMD90 (Reply 3):
And if you think it's expensive here, try getting a beer in Norway!

Pretty steep, I take it?

It's about $15 a beer minimum from what I saw. I'm sure the locals know where to find the cheap beer... maybe not
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us330
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RE: Stupid Underage Question-Alcohol Always Expensive?

Thu Aug 16, 2012 7:30 pm

Quoting AlnessW (Thread starter):
Are drinks any cheaper at bars, clubs, casinos, etc?

Alcohol tends to be expensive because its heavily taxed. That and because establishments love marking up alcohol. Cost of drinks also varies based on geographical location, simply because those places are charging what the market will bear. In general, clubs will charge the most for alcohol simply because, outside of cover charge, that's their only source of revenue. Hotel bars/restaurants will also typically charge more because that's what hotels do--they markup everything.

W bars, it all depends on what kind of bar you are at, and what time you go.

From least marked up to most marked up, I'd say the following: bottled beer, keg draft, wine, liquor.
 
AlnessW
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RE: Stupid Underage Question-Alcohol Always Expensive?

Thu Aug 16, 2012 7:46 pm

Quoting srbmod (Reply 6):
Actually more expensive (even that "free" drink at a casino while gambling ends up costing more than it would had you gone to bar and bought one).

Somehow I'm not surprised that casinos would try to give you free drinks...

Quoting srbmod (Reply 6):
One of the worst ways to buy beer, wine or liquor is hotel room service. I've seen hotels charge 4 or 5 times what the same bottle would cost in a store.

Yes, and even more so with hotel room minibars! Enjoy your $4 can of soda to go along with the $9 rum, and the $6 bag of peanuts!  Wow!
Quoting srbmod (Reply 6):
You'd be surprised at the markups on beverages in general.
Quoting srbmod (Reply 6):
That's a lot of profit on beverages, but other areas have much slimmer margins and is where a restaurant can get into the hole.

   Absolutely. I've read that a $2 restaurant soft drink costs them 10-15 cents to make.
Same story for movie popcorn - that large bucket you paid $7.50 for cost them about 15 cents to make!

Thanks for stopping by, srbmod!

Quoting DeltaMD90 (Reply 7):
Well take it from me too

I will!  
Quoting DeltaMD90 (Reply 7):
It's about $15 a beer minimum from what I saw.

 Wow! You weren't joking!

Quoting us330 (Reply 8):
Alcohol tends to be expensive because its heavily taxed. That and because establishments love marking up alcohol. Cost of drinks also varies based on geographical location, simply because those places are charging what the market will bear. In general, clubs will charge the most for alcohol simply because, outside of cover charge, that's their only source of revenue. Hotel bars/restaurants will also typically charge more because that's what hotels do--they markup everything.

W bars, it all depends on what kind of bar you are at, and what time you go.

All interesting stuff to know, thanks.
 
rfields5421
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RE: Stupid Underage Question-Alcohol Always Expensive?

Thu Aug 16, 2012 7:54 pm

Quoting AlnessW (Thread starter):
Is alcohol always really expensive?

Compared to other non-alcohol drinks available in the same location - alcohol almost always runs 100%-200% higher. And it can hit 1000% higher very easily if you want something special.

Quoting us330 (Reply 8):
Alcohol tends to be expensive because its heavily taxed.

Taxes play a part.

The key element though is that alcohol is the most profitable item in most restaurants, bars, clubs, casinos, etc. Cruise ships make a ton of money on alcohol. All of those businesses exist only to make a profit. Alcohol is the item which the whole establishment rests upon.

The acquisition costs are relatively low and there is no competition once you walk in the door. Very few people will walk out of a place because the alcohol prices are too high.

As a non-drinker (now, not always, no longer physically able to tolerate it) - I find that many higher end restaurants are rather put out that we are not drinking before dinner cocktails, wine with the meal and an after dinner drink. Items that would raise the cost of the meal form $100-150 for two people to $200-$300.

The cruise ships find us to be a low profit couple.
 
flymia
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RE: Stupid Underage Question-Alcohol Always Expensive?

Thu Aug 16, 2012 8:07 pm

In nice bars and clubs in cities like NYC, Miami, LA and Vegas a drink can cost over $16-$20 while a beer can be over the $10 range. And "bottle service" that bottle of grey goose you can buy for $40 in a store cost $400+ in clubs. It's crazy sometimes. At the same time I can go to other bars that aren't as trendy and get a beer for $3-4 and some places even less.

Buying alcohol at stores isn't too bad, the cheaper beers are very inexpensive and liquor isn't terrible prices either some can be cheap like $15 for a bottle of vodka or the more expensive stuff for $40 or so.
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ajd1992
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RE: Stupid Underage Question-Alcohol Always Expensive?

Thu Aug 16, 2012 8:30 pm

It's expensive for the simple reason they know people will buy it.

Drinking in a pub/club can be outrageously expensive though. I once spent £60 ($95) and didn't even come home drunk!

In a Hilton hotel I paid £14 for a Long Island Iced Tea and a Corona ($23) but that's because it's in a Hilton. I didn't mind paying as I had just proposed though.  

I'm 20 and even in the 2 years I've been able to drink, alcohol has gone up in price. It's pathetic how expensive it is but I'm going out for a meal, I'm going to drink with it. I drink coke at home - I don't drink beer at home so a beer with my meal is a nice change.

A bottle of Corona is £3.50 ($5.50) in a pub - I can get 4 bottles for £5 ($8) in the local supermarket. Bit annoying but it's the price you pay.

[Edited 2012-08-16 13:34:43]
 
WestJet747
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RE: Stupid Underage Question-Alcohol Always Expensive?

Thu Aug 16, 2012 9:12 pm

Unfortunately you have to wait until you're 21. I always found the U.S. age limit to be unrealistic. Where I'm from the age is 18, and we don't have any more crime or juvenile delinqency than anywhere else.

As for your question: Yes, alcohol really is that expensive. BUT, you need to find yourself a seedy, little underground student bar. Just down the road from my office there is a place across from the university campus called Phil's. Phil's is a magical establishment where beers/drinks/shots are only $2.25 (read: 4 for $9), the urinals have a headrests (I'm not joking...), and there are stripper poles with no (hired) strippers. Every city has a Phil's, so when you're a student on a budget, you'll find your Phil's.

As has already been mentioned, bars often do specials. One of the spots near my university does a "Power Hour" from 9-10 on Thursday nights where everything is $1. Needless to say, it's pretty popular!

Quoting DeltaMD90 (Reply 3):
4 Lokos are very cheap for what you get

We aren't trying to kill the kid!

Quoting AlnessW (Reply 9):
Somehow I'm not surprised that casinos would try to give you free drinks...

I've been to casinos in several countries, and the U.S. is the only one where I ever received a drink on the house. I'm not sure if there are legal reasons behind this or not, but that's just my observation.

Quoting AlnessW (Reply 9):
Same story for movie popcorn

Yep. From what I hear, there is almost zero margin on the actual movie revenue itself, whereas concession brings in a majority, if not all, profits.
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fr8mech
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RE: Stupid Underage Question-Alcohol Always Expensive?

Thu Aug 16, 2012 9:29 pm

Let's take a bottle of Woodford Reserve Bourbon. 1 Liter costs about $35 bucks, probably cheaper in bulk. There are 21 and 32 shots in the bottle, depending on the pour. The cheapest I've ever had a bourbon mixed cocktail (with Woodford) was $8. That works out to between $168 - $256 revenue per bottle. Take out of that the overhead required to run the facility (it takes money to pour that booze)...and you come up with whatever profit comes off the bottle.

Restaurants need you to drink their booze. They run on very tight margins. They can easily charge a little more for the booze, because, as mentioned, there is no competition once you walk in the door. The higher end food places, that have better margins, tend to charge even more, for the same reason, you can't get booze anywhere else once you get in the door.

Find a bar around a college and get cheaper (both cost and quality) when you come of age.

Quoting WestJet747 (Reply 13):
Where I'm from the age is 18, and we don't have any more crime or juvenile delinqency than anywhere else.

It's not a matter of crime, it's a matter of driving. The concern was that you unleash a new, unrestricted driver on the roadways at 18 and they also were able to get into a bar at the same time. The increase to 21 was supposed to put a little "wisdom" between driving age and drinking age. For the record, I disagree with the notion.

[Edited 2012-08-16 14:30:40]
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AlnessW
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RE: Stupid Underage Question-Alcohol Always Expensive?

Thu Aug 16, 2012 9:38 pm

Quoting rfields5421 (Reply 10):
Compared to other non-alcohol drinks available in the same location - alcohol almost always runs 100%-200% higher. And it can hit 1000% higher very easily if you want something special.

Wow!

Quoting rfields5421 (Reply 10):
The key element though is that alcohol is the most profitable item in most restaurants, bars, clubs, casinos, etc. Cruise ships make a ton of money on alcohol. All of those businesses exist only to make a profit. Alcohol is the item which the whole establishment rests upon.

I guess that isn't too surprising.

Quoting rfields5421 (Reply 10):
The acquisition costs are relatively low and there is no competition once you walk in the door. Very few people will walk out of a place because the alcohol prices are too high.

Ah, I see.

Quoting flymia (Reply 11):
In nice bars and clubs in cities like NYC, Miami, LA and Vegas a drink can cost over $16-$20 while a beer can be over the $10 range. And "bottle service" that bottle of grey goose you can buy for $40 in a store cost $400+ in clubs. It's crazy sometimes. At the same time I can go to other bars that aren't as trendy and get a beer for $3-4 and some places even less.

 Wow! Crazy indeed!

Quoting flymia (Reply 11):
Buying alcohol at stores isn't too bad, the cheaper beers are very inexpensive and liquor isn't terrible prices either some can be cheap like $15 for a bottle of vodka or the more expensive stuff for $40 or so.

Interesting to know.

Quoting ajd1992 (Reply 12):
It's expensive for the simple reason they know people will buy it.

Drinking in a pub/club can be outrageously expensive though. I once spent £60 ($95) and didn't even come home drunk!

In a Hilton hotel I paid £14 for a Long Island Iced Tea and a Corona ($23) but that's because it's in a Hilton. I didn't mind paying as I had just proposed though.

That's pretty steep...

Quoting WestJet747 (Reply 13):
Unfortunately you have to wait until you're 21. I always found the U.S. age limit to be unrealistic.

Yes, see my previous comment:

Quoting AlnessW (Reply 5):
I always thought 21 seemed too high for the US. (a different topic which will be spared for another thread.)

  

Quoting WestJet747 (Reply 13):
Where I'm from the age is 18, and we don't have any more crime or juvenile delinqency than anywhere else.

Exactly, hence the 21 rule in the US doesn't make any sense.

Quoting WestJet747 (Reply 13):
BUT, you need to find yourself a seedy, little underground student bar. Just down the road from my office there is a place across from the university campus called Phil's. Phil's is a magical establishment where beers/drinks/shots are only $2.25 (read: 4 for $9), the urinals have a headrests (I'm not joking...), and there are stripper poles with no (hired) strippers. Every city has a Phil's, so when you're a student on a budget, you'll find your Phil's.

Now, what exactly do you mean when you say "student bar?" Do you mean they serve to minors, or to college students who are of legal age?

Quoting WestJet747 (Reply 13):
We aren't trying to kill the kid!

You must've missed these then:

Quoting DeltaMD90 (Reply 3):
but I can assure you, stay away from those
Quoting AlnessW (Reply 5):
Yes, from I've read, I have heard nothing but bad news about Four Lokos!
Quoting DeltaMD90 (Reply 7):
Well take it from me too

  

Quoting WestJet747 (Reply 13):
I've been to casinos in several countries, and the U.S. is the only one where I ever received a drink on the house. I'm not sure if there are legal reasons behind this or not, but that's just my observation.

Interesting to know.

Quoting WestJet747 (Reply 13):
Yep. From what I hear, there is almost zero margin on the actual movie revenue itself, whereas concession brings in a majority, if not all, profits.

Well, that makes sense!

Quoting fr8mech (Reply 14):
Let's take a bottle of Woodford Reserve Bourbon. 1 Liter costs about $35 bucks, probably cheaper in bulk. There are 21 and 32 shots in the bottle, depending on the pour. The cheapest I've ever had a bourbon mixed cocktail (with Woodford) was $8. That works out to between $168 - $256 revenue per bottle. Take out of that the overhead required to run the facility (it takes money to pour that booze)...and you come up with whatever profit comes off the bottle.

That sounds like a good explanation.

Quoting fr8mech (Reply 14):
Find a bar around a college and get cheaper (both cost and quality) when you come of age.

Good plan.

Quoting fr8mech (Reply 14):
The increase to 21 was supposed to put a little "wisdom" between driving age and drinking age. For the record, I disagree with the notion.

Me too.
 
WestJet747
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RE: Stupid Underage Question-Alcohol Always Expensive?

Thu Aug 16, 2012 10:04 pm

Quoting AlnessW (Reply 15):
Now, what exactly do you mean when you say "student bar?" Do you mean they serve to minors, or to college students who are of legal age?

A student bar is a bar/club/pub/etc that is either on campus, or is an establishment near campus that is frequented by students.

In my Phil's example above, the bar is actually across the street from the campus, but you'd be hard-pressed to find anyone in there who isn't a student, so I refer to it as a student bar. Same goes with the on-campus bar at my university (considering you need a student ID to get in since it is owned by the student's union).

Quoting AlnessW (Reply 15):
You must've missed these then:

Oh not at all. Just confirming how crazy those things are!

Quoting fr8mech (Reply 14):
It's not a matter of crime, it's a matter of driving. The concern was that you unleash a new, unrestricted driver on the roadways at 18 and they also were able to get into a bar at the same time. The increase to 21 was supposed to put a little "wisdom" between driving age and drinking age. For the record, I disagree with the notion.

I totally agree. But I wonder, the politicians must know that the current drinking age does nothing but penalize more young people without actually solving a problem, so why don't they change it?

Quoting fr8mech (Reply 14):
Restaurants need you to drink their booze. They run on very tight margins.
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rfields5421
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RE: Stupid Underage Question-Alcohol Always Expensive?

Thu Aug 16, 2012 10:46 pm

Quoting AlnessW (Reply 9):
Same story for movie popcorn - that large bucket you paid $7.50 for cost them about 15 cents to make!

Usually the most exensive thing in a popcorn purchase is the container/ bag it is served it. When I ran concessions at a race track, popcorn was the highest profit item, though soda ran a close second.

We didn't serve alcohol.
 
seb146
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RE: Stupid Underage Question-Alcohol Always Expensive?

Thu Aug 16, 2012 11:46 pm

Quoting AlnessW (Thread starter):
Is alcohol always really expensive?

Yes. Unless you are a really hot chick. Then drinks are free.
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RE: Stupid Underage Question-Alcohol Always Expensive?

Fri Aug 17, 2012 12:08 am

No. Go to Thailand, Philippines or Venezuela if you want it really cheap. a Bucket of your favorite cocktail in a bar will set you back just a few dollars and get you shitfaced. They also proudly display signs "We don't ask for ID"....

I love places like that.
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fr8mech
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RE: Stupid Underage Question-Alcohol Always Expensive?

Fri Aug 17, 2012 12:54 am

Quoting WestJet747 (Reply 16):
totally agree. But I wonder, the politicians must know that the current drinking age does nothing but penalize more young people without actually solving a problem, so why don't they change it?

Because the folks at MADD and all those other groups are an extremely powerful lobby. Can you imagine the TV against a politician that advocates lowering the drinking age?

Quoting seb146 (Reply 18):
Yes. Unless you are a really hot chick. Then drinks are free.

Ah, so right.
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Quokkas
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RE: Stupid Underage Question-Alcohol Always Expensive?

Fri Aug 17, 2012 2:38 am

Quoting AlnessW (Thread starter):
Is alcohol always really expensive?

Depends where you buy it and in which country. In shops and supermarkets selling other products alcohol may be "reasonably" priced. Go to a night club and you can expect a major escalation in price. Hotels charge like wounded bulls. In Casablanca the Sheraton Hotel wanted to charge 55 dirhams for a 500ml bottle of water: you could buy a 2l bottle for 7 dirhams in the shop down the road.

Some countires impose taxes on alcohol depending on its strength with low alcohol beers having a lower rate than wines or spirits. The higher the alcohol content the more tax you pay.

Packaging and snob appeal can also play a part. That generic wine carton may cost less than another wine in a bottle with a fancy label from a "boutique" winery.

I was amazed in South Africa when in Ithala and Cathedral Peak I found the brandy to be cheaper than the dry ginger. The brandy was 6 rands while the dry ginger was 8 rands! Back in Cape Town the prices for brandy were as high as those that I am used to here in Perth.
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seb146
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RE: Stupid Underage Question-Alcohol Always Expensive?

Fri Aug 17, 2012 3:47 am

Quoting fr8mech (Reply 20):
Can you imagine the TV against a politician that advocates lowering the drinking age?

I have wondered something: What about lowering the drinking age while, at the same time, lowering the drunk driving limit?
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DeltaMD90
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RE: Stupid Underage Question-Alcohol Always Expensive?

Fri Aug 17, 2012 3:56 am

Quoting seb146 (Reply 22):
Quoting fr8mech (Reply 20):
Can you imagine the TV against a politician that advocates lowering the drinking age?

I have wondered something: What about lowering the drinking age while, at the same time, lowering the drunk driving limit?

I think the problem was back in the day they saw the 18-20 year old group had the highest rate of DUIs so they banned it for 20 minus year olds, hence the 21 year old rule. I'm not sure lowering the DUI limit will do much since people will probably DUI anyway, and .08% really isn't that high
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fr8mech
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RE: Stupid Underage Question-Alcohol Always Expensive?

Fri Aug 17, 2012 4:00 am

Quoting seb146 (Reply 22):
I have wondered something: What about lowering the drinking age while, at the same time, lowering the drunk driving limit?

I would make it a .04 for 18 - 21 year olds. Of course, I would also make it no tolerance for anyone under 18.
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seb146
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RE: Stupid Underage Question-Alcohol Always Expensive?

Fri Aug 17, 2012 4:28 am

Quoting fr8mech (Reply 24):
Quoting seb146 (Reply 22):I have wondered something: What about lowering the drinking age while, at the same time, lowering the drunk driving limit?
I would make it a .04 for 18 - 21 year olds. Of course, I would also make it no tolerance for anyone under 18.

I was thinking .05, lowering the age to 19, and also raising fines and penalties. Driving drunk is a horrible thing. Some people, even at .05, have no judgement. If people want to get drunk, fine. That's their business. But, driving after drinking should be punished at any age and any BAC.
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Mortyman
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RE: Stupid Underage Question-Alcohol Always Expensive?

Fri Aug 17, 2012 5:03 am

In the US, beer is cheaper than soda ... Go figure ...
 
AlnessW
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RE: Stupid Underage Question-Alcohol Always Expensive?

Fri Aug 17, 2012 5:09 am

Quoting WestJet747 (Reply 16):
A student bar is a bar/club/pub/etc that is either on campus, or is an establishment near campus that is frequented by students.

In my Phil's example above, the bar is actually across the street from the campus, but you'd be hard-pressed to find anyone in there who isn't a student, so I refer to it as a student bar. Same goes with the on-campus bar at my university (considering you need a student ID to get in since it is owned by the student's union).

Thanks for the explanation. One school I looked at even had a full-service bar in one of the student lounges. But of course, 21 and over.   

Quoting WestJet747 (Reply 16):
Oh not at all. Just confirming how crazy those things are!

Got it.  I guess there's a reason they call them "loco"...

Quoting WestJet747 (Reply 16):
I totally agree. But I wonder, the politicians must know that the current drinking age does nothing but penalize more young people without actually solving a problem, so why don't they change it?

Exactly, how has 21 exactly solved anything? If you ask me, all it creates are underage drinking problems and a "black market" for the 18-20 group.

Quoting rfields5421 (Reply 17):
Usually the most exensive thing in a popcorn purchase is the container/ bag it is served it. When I ran concessions at a race track, popcorn was the highest profit item, though soda ran a close second.

That just amazes me, yet I don't find it surprising.

Quoting seb146 (Reply 18):

Yes. Unless you are a really hot chick. Then drinks are free.

  

Quoting fr8mech (Reply 20):
Because the folks at MADD and all those other groups are an extremely powerful lobby. Can you imagine the TV against a politician that advocates lowering the drinking age?

Yes, I would assume that those folks would riot...

Quoting DeltaMD90 (Reply 23):
I think the problem was back in the day they saw the 18-20 year old group had the highest rate of DUIs so they banned it for 20 minus year olds, hence the 21 year old rule. I'm not sure lowering the DUI limit will do much since people will probably DUI anyway, and .08% really isn't that high

Was that the case? Interesting to know.

Quoting seb146 (Reply 22):
I have wondered something: What about lowering the drinking age while, at the same time, lowering the drunk driving limit?
Quoting fr8mech (Reply 24):
I would make it a .04 for 18 - 21 year olds. Of course, I would also make it no tolerance for anyone under 18.
Quoting seb146 (Reply 25):
I was thinking .05, lowering the age to 19, and also raising fines and penalties.

   Now those are some ideas.

Quoting seb146 (Reply 25):
Driving drunk is a horrible thing. Some people, even at .05, have no judgement. If people want to get drunk, fine. That's their business. But, driving after drinking should be punished at any age and any BAC.

   I think you hit the nail on the head.

Quoting Mortyman (Reply 26):
In the US, beer is cheaper than soda ... Go figure ...

How so?
 
CXfirst
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RE: Stupid Underage Question-Alcohol Always Expensive?

Fri Aug 17, 2012 9:39 am

You know, my local pub/bar (here in Perth) serves pints at AUD$11 (about US$11.50). I'm the only one of my friends that doesn't complain......... I'm Norwegian, and not only that, but from regional Norway.

-CXfirst
 
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casinterest
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RE: Stupid Underage Question-Alcohol Always Expensive?

Fri Aug 17, 2012 10:09 am

Quoting AlnessW (Reply 27):
Quoting seb146 (Reply 22):
I have wondered something: What about lowering the drinking age while, at the same time, lowering the drunk driving limit?

Quoting fr8mech (Reply 24):
I would make it a .04 for 18 - 21 year olds. Of course, I would also make it no tolerance for anyone under 18.
Quoting seb146 (Reply 25):
I was thinking .05, lowering the age to 19, and also raising fines and penalties.

Now those are some ideas.

In most states, the limits already are lower. A 20 year old in Raleigh got a DUI with a .05 ( .02 is limit under 21) for an accident over the weekend.


I think the 21 drinking age is a bit dumb, but then again, I never really had a problem finding friends who could obtain alcohol for me. Come to think of it, this may be one of the reasons there is such blase about the 21 law. Everyone knows the limit is 21, but no-one really follows it, except in places of enforcement.
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Aeri28
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RE: Stupid Underage Question-Alcohol Always Expensive?

Fri Aug 17, 2012 10:10 am

Varies between bar to bar and club to club. In Waikiki, I go to a bar that has $2 beers between certain hours, or $3 well drinks before certain hours, some days they have 2 for 1 etc.. A pitcher of draft can be $5 too as opposed to a bottle which may cost $4. Again you could go to a crap club that 'll charge you $7 for a drink. At Shirokiya Department store at Ala Moana they opened up a beer garden where you can get an Asahi oir Sapporo draft for $3 or a pitcher for about $2 to $3 more. Quite popular. Or go to a Waikiki hotel and spend $14 for a mixed drink for the ambiece.
 
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casinterest
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RE: Stupid Underage Question-Alcohol Always Expensive?

Fri Aug 17, 2012 10:18 am

Quoting CXfirst (Reply 28):
You know, my local pub/bar (here in Perth) serves pints at AUD$11 (about US$11.50). I'm the only one of my friends that doesn't complain......... I'm Norwegian, and not only that, but from regional Norway.

Ouch. I have only paid those rates at a rock concert,
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RE: Stupid Underage Question-Alcohol Always Expensive?

Fri Aug 17, 2012 10:31 am

Quoting Quokkas (Reply 21):
Hotels charge like wounded bulls. In Casablanca the Sheraton Hotel wanted to charge 55 dirhams for a 500ml bottle of water: you could buy a 2l bottle for 7 dirhams in the shop down the road.

Hotel sundries shops are another rip-off, and if the hotel does happen to have drink machines on their floors (something that seems to be happening less and less), they charge pretty much the same as they do in the sundries shop. Still not as bad as minibar prices. I know folks that when they go on vacation, their first stop after picking up their rental car is a store so they don't have to pay those outrageous hotel prices.
 
ajd1992
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RE: Stupid Underage Question-Alcohol Always Expensive?

Fri Aug 17, 2012 11:28 am

Quoting AlnessW (Reply 15):
That's pretty steep...

It is but the Hilton chain is expensive. I didn't really mind paying it (ordinarily I wouldn't be caught dead paying those prices though, might I add! ) but it was a special occasion so me and my other half went for a drink. Normally I cringe at paying half that for the same thing but after paying £200 ($320) for a suite for the night to propose in, 2 drinks for $23 isn't so bad any more  
Quoting AlnessW (Reply 15):
Now, what exactly do you mean when you say "student bar?" Do you mean they serve to minors, or to college students who are of legal age?

They're always around universities (at least here they are, people generally go to university at 18 and the drinking age in the UK is 18 so it makes sense) and usually they have a dirt cheap night (usually Thursday I believe in my 2 nearest cities, Liverpool & Manchester). They ID on the door for obvious reasons but they will not serve to underage patrons (and that's basing it on the fact they even got in in the first place, maybe during the week but forget it on a Friday or Saturday night).

Anybody can go in, it's not students only but they have to be 18.

Quoting Mortyman (Reply 26):

In the US, beer is cheaper than soda ... Go figure ...

Same in the UK. A pub near me charges £2.50 for a pint of Coke, whereas a pint of Fosters (OK, I know it's horrible but roll with me on this ) is £2.30.

Quoting fr8mech (Reply 14):
It's not a matter of crime, it's a matter of driving. The concern was that you unleash a new, unrestricted driver on the roadways at 18 and they also were able to get into a bar at the same time. The increase to 21 was supposed to put a little "wisdom" between driving age and drinking age. For the record, I disagree with the notion.

Kids can drive before they can drink in most places anyway (you can drive in the UK at 17 and drink at 18) but we don't have any more drink driving than anywhere else. I only learned to drive so I had ID for when I was old enough to drink  I passed 4 months before my 18th so in plenty of time too  .
 
WestJet747
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RE: Stupid Underage Question-Alcohol Always Expensive?

Fri Aug 17, 2012 1:24 pm

Quoting fr8mech (Reply 20):
Because the folks at MADD and all those other groups are an extremely powerful lobby. Can you imagine the TV against a politician that advocates lowering the drinking age?

Ah, good point.

I guess we'll have to wait and see if any politician down there has the balls to step forward and use Canada/Australia/Europe as an example (with stats to back it up) for why a 21 drinking age doesn't make a whole lot of sense. As mentioned by another poster, it's really not that difficult for underagers to get their hands on booze. I did so quite successfully before I turned 18 (19 when I lived in Ontario).

Quoting fr8mech (Reply 24):
I would make it a .04 for 18 - 21 year olds. Of course, I would also make it no tolerance for anyone under 18.

That's pretty close to how it works in my province. The Ontario Liberals introduced legislation a few years back that created a zero-tolerance rule for anyone under the age of 22, regardless of driving record or license. For everyone else, if you are caught above .05, the police officer pulling you over can immediately issue a 30 day roadside suspension on your license (with fines as well). I believe you can also get a 24-hour roadside suspension if you are caught above .03 and you are driving erratically, but don't quote me on that one.
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rfields5421
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RE: Stupid Underage Question-Alcohol Always Expensive?

Fri Aug 17, 2012 2:57 pm

Quoting DeltaMD90 (Reply 23):
I think the problem was back in the day they saw the 18-20 year old group had the highest rate of DUIs so they banned it for 20 minus year olds,

While the increase in DUI/ DWI was noticeable - the big reason the under age 21 drinking was reversed was due to a significant increase in the number of deaths in drinking and driving auto accidents by drivers in the 18-20 age group. States like Louisiana which always had an 18 year old drinking age - always had higher rates of deaths, serious injuries and accidents among the 18-20 year old group than states with 21 year old drinking age.

Quoting AlnessW (Reply 27):
how has 21 exactly solved anything?

It 'solves' nothing - except according to many reports over the past 40+ years that raising the drinking age from 18 to 21 - lowers the number of deaths from automobile accidents where alcohol is involved.

Actually many people advocate 25 as the minimum age for drinking, because statistics show a sharp decline in deaths and injuries and accidents after age 25 where alcohol is involved.

Now what I've said above could be just MADD propaganda - but my experience as an 18 year old legally able to drink in Louisiana, not able to drink in Arkansas, a 20 year old made legal to drink in Arkansas and as a parent where my children could not legally drink until they were 21 - tells me it is accurate.


The presumption of a 21 year old drinking age is that the young people will have a slightly higher level of maturity and recognition of the dangers. People who argue against a 21 drinking age in favor of a lower age obviously show they have not reached the hoped for level maturity and recognition of the risks and dangers.
 
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RE: Stupid Underage Question-Alcohol Always Expensive?

Fri Aug 17, 2012 3:11 pm

Quoting DeltaMD90 (Reply 7):
Quoting AlnessW (Reply 5):
Quoting DeltaMD90 (Reply 3):
And if you think it's expensive here, try getting a beer in Norway!

Pretty steep, I take it?

It's about $15 a beer minimum from what I saw. I'm sure the locals know where to find the cheap beer... maybe not

Try Switzerland: beer is not too expensive (at least for our standards: around $5), but cocktails are on the steep side. You really have to look hard to find them anywhere under $15-$17, even at open air fairs. This adds up quite quickly. I tend to only have a cocktail, maximum 2 per evening, then stick to sodas (as I'm usually the driver), but I have friends who are out of $200 after an evening out partying.
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RE: Stupid Underage Question-Alcohol Always Expensive?

Fri Aug 17, 2012 3:18 pm

Quoting rfields5421 (Reply 35):
People who argue against a 21 drinking age in favor of a lower age obviously show they have not reached the hoped for level maturity and recognition of the risks and dangers.

You made a compelling arguement up until the last line. Age and maturity are arbitrary and do not float around a magical fixed point.
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rfields5421
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RE: Stupid Underage Question-Alcohol Always Expensive?

Fri Aug 17, 2012 4:01 pm

Quoting casinterest (Reply 37):
Age and maturity are arbitrary and do not float around a magical fixed point.

That is correct.

However, when discussing the drinking age, we are not talking about individuals, we are discussing the average tendancies of the vast majority of the age group.

The truth is that almost all young people in the US will experiment with alcohol, and other mood altering substances, when young. The focus of under 21 drinking age laws is to hopefully keep them from driving while impaired, or engaging in other risky, life threatening behavior.

The average among the millions of young people is that at age 21, there is a better awareness of the consequences of drinking and driving - and it occurs less. There is an even higher awareness and unwillingness to risk the consequences after age 25.

Most people over age 25 recognize that lowering the drinking age to 18 is a very bad idea. Not all of course.

But then again, when I was 17 waiting for age 18 so I could legally drink - I though the older folks were all foolish about taking away my 'rights'. I'm sure that hasn't changed.
 
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RE: Stupid Underage Question-Alcohol Always Expensive?

Fri Aug 17, 2012 4:07 pm

Quoting rfields5421 (Reply 38):
However, when

I am not referring to your theory. I was referring to your insult of those that had an opinion that the age should be 21. Pretty low form of argument support.
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AlnessW
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RE: Stupid Underage Question-Alcohol Always Expensive?

Fri Aug 17, 2012 8:06 pm

Quoting casinterest (Reply 29):
I think the 21 drinking age is a bit dumb, but then again, I never really had a problem finding friends who could obtain alcohol for me.

I agree.

Quoting casinterest (Reply 29):
Come to think of it, this may be one of the reasons there is such blase about the 21 law. Everyone knows the limit is 21, but no-one really follows it, except in places of enforcement.

I think you may be right.

Quoting Aeri28 (Reply 30):

Interesting to know, thanks.

Quoting srbmod (Reply 32):
Hotel sundries shops are another rip-off, and if the hotel does happen to have drink machines on their floors

   Most definitely.

Quoting srbmod (Reply 32):
(something that seems to be happening less and less)

Really? Not that I've noticed...

Quoting srbmod (Reply 32):
Still not as bad as minibar prices.

That is for sure.

Quoting ajd1992 (Reply 33):
It is but the Hilton chain is expensive.

  

Quoting ajd1992 (Reply 33):
Kids can drive before they can drink in most places anyway (you can drive in the UK at 17 and drink at 18) but we don't have any more drink driving than anywhere else.

Here in the US, you can drive at 16 yet you have to wait until 21 to drink. Seems like way too big a gap, I think.

Quoting WestJet747 (Reply 34):
I guess we'll have to wait and see if any politician down there has the balls to step forward and use Canada/Australia/Europe as an example (with stats to back it up) for why a 21 drinking age doesn't make a whole lot of sense.

From a minor's perspective, I think that would be great!

Quoting rfields5421 (Reply 35):
Actually many people advocate 25 as the minimum age for drinking

Now's that's just absurd.

Quoting rfields5421 (Reply 35):
Now what I've said above could be just MADD propaganda

That would not surprise me.

Quoting casinterest (Reply 37):
You made a compelling arguement up until the last line. Age and maturity are arbitrary and do not float around a magical fixed point.

  

Quoting rfields5421 (Reply 38):
However, when discussing the drinking age, we are not talking about individuals, we are discussing the average tendancies of the vast majority of the age group.

See, you just said "average," once again indicating that age groups/maturities are arbitrary.
 
Okie
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RE: Stupid Underage Question-Alcohol Always Expensive?

Sat Aug 18, 2012 1:32 am

In Oklahoma they dropped the drinking age to 18 for a few years.
Then raised it back to 21, although there were factors of MADD and other groups to raise the age back to 21.
The real issue was that the Federal Government chose that for the legal drinking age or they were going to cut off all highway funds. I do not think Oklahoma was the only state that got that memo.

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RE: Stupid Underage Question-Alcohol Always Expensive?

Sat Aug 18, 2012 1:46 am

Quoting okie (Reply 41):
The real issue was that the Federal Government chose that for the legal drinking age or they were going to cut off all highway funds.

All, or at least 10%..... but numbers tend to grow over time  
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RE: Stupid Underage Question-Alcohol Always Expensive?

Sat Aug 18, 2012 5:51 pm

Quoting Mortyman (Reply 26):
In the US, beer is cheaper than soda ... Go figure ...

Beer is comprised of 4 ingredients: hops, barley, yeast, and water.

A sample orange soda bottle says it has: Carbonated water, citric acid, potassium citrate, corn starch-modified, potassium benzoate, aspartame, acesulfame potassium, glyceryl abietate, orange and other natural flavors, yellow 6, red 40, and potassium sorbate.
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RE: Stupid Underage Question-Alcohol Always Expensive?

Sat Aug 18, 2012 7:42 pm

Quoting rfields5421 (Reply 35):
Actually many people advocate 25 as the minimum age for drinking, because statistics show a sharp decline in deaths and injuries and accidents after age 25 where alcohol is involved.

Because, by that time with the drinking age set at 21, most people get the binge drinking out of their system. Lower the age to 18 and I guarantee there will be a sharp decline in death and injury after age 23.
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Aesma
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RE: Stupid Underage Question-Alcohol Always Expensive?

Sat Aug 18, 2012 9:33 pm

At your age I was going at student parties where you paid 20€ for entry and it was open bar all night ! With good DJs and exotic dancers. At 6 am I was still dancing and sweating vodka ! Now only a few years later those have been banned (they were sponsored by alcohol manufacturers) and you have to pay for each drink, which I find outrageously expensive, especially in Paris.

BTW here there is a "buying alcohol age" but no drinking age, at the family table it's common for kids to taste wine, beer...
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Maverick623
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RE: Stupid Underage Question-Alcohol Always Expensive?

Sun Aug 19, 2012 6:19 am

Quoting rfields5421 (Reply 35):
because statistics show a sharp decline in deaths and injuries and accidents after age 25 where alcohol is involved.

There could be another reason for that: around 25 is traditionally when people start having more disposable income, and thus can easier afford a cab.

Also, tolerance. A 25 year old drinking for 7 years is going to have more tolerance than a 20 year old drinking for 2 years (assuming one starts drinking at 18).

Quoting rfields5421 (Reply 35):
but my experience as an 18 year old legally able to drink in Louisiana, not able to drink in Arkansas, a 20 year old made legal to drink in Arkansas and as a parent where my children could not legally drink until they were 21 - tells me it is accurate.

That was also part of the problem: driving across state lines in order to legally drink.
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AlnessW
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RE: Stupid Underage Question-Alcohol Always Expensive?

Mon Aug 20, 2012 4:27 pm

Quoting Maverick623 (Reply 43):
A sample orange soda bottle says it has: Carbonated water, citric acid, potassium citrate, corn starch-modified, potassium benzoate, aspartame, acesulfame potassium, glyceryl abietate, orange and other natural flavors, yellow 6, red 40, and potassium sorbate.

And to think that I am putting all of those weird things, most of which I can't pronounce, into my system whenever I crack open a refreshing can of soda...

Quoting Maverick623 (Reply 43):
Beer is comprised of 4 ingredients: hops, barley, yeast, and water.

Then why is it more expensive to purchase? Taxes?

Quoting Aesma (Reply 45):
At your age I was going at student parties where you paid 20€ for entry and it was open bar all night ! With good DJs and exotic dancers.

Wow!
 
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RE: Stupid Underage Question-Alcohol Always Expensive?

Mon Aug 20, 2012 5:30 pm

Quoting AlnessW (Reply 47):

Quoting Maverick623 (Reply 43):
A sample orange soda bottle says it has: Carbonated water, citric acid, potassium citrate, corn starch-modified, potassium benzoate, aspartame, acesulfame potassium, glyceryl abietate, orange and other natural flavors, yellow 6, red 40, and potassium sorbate.

And to think that I am putting all of those weird things, most of which I can't pronounce, into my system whenever I crack open a refreshing can of soda...

Quoting Maverick623 (Reply 43):
Beer is comprised of 4 ingredients: hops, barley, yeast, and water.

Then why is it more expensive to purchase? Taxes?

Because assuming that the cost of something is simply proportional to the number of ingredients is a gross over-simplification. The cost of ingredients, taxes, manufacturing processes, external materials etc all come into effect. A beer takes 2-3 weeks to brew, a can of soda takes probably 1-2 minutes at most to make. Not to mention that all those chemicals in soda are probably much cheaper to produce and buy than barely, hops, and yeast.
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ajd1992
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RE: Stupid Underage Question-Alcohol Always Expensive?

Mon Aug 20, 2012 7:11 pm

Quoting AlnessW (Reply 40):
Here in the US, you can drive at 16 yet you have to wait until 21 to drink. Seems like way too big a gap, I think.

Maybe so - I mean if you can drink and you can drive the age makes no difference, if you are going to drink and drive then you are going to drink and drive.

I think that drinking should be done at an earlier age to driving - let kids get their drunken days out of their system then let them loose behind the wheel. I hardly drink anyway but I'd never drive after ANY alcohol. Not worth the risk.

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