mham001
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Cadillac Confirms Production Of ELR - Volt 1.5

Mon Aug 20, 2012 3:23 pm

Cadillac last week officially confirmed production of the ELR Coupe, a takeoff from the Converj concept shown in 2010, attempting to build on the growing success of the Voltec drivetrain.




By expanding the plugin hybrid platform, GM expects to lower costs through volume. Voltec v1.5 may include the long-rumored bump in electric-only range that CEO Ackerson has recently been talking about. All electric range is rumored to increase to 70-100 miles and the car will have a 4 cylinder generator. Performance figures have not been released,

The car will be officially introduced at next year's Detroit show.
 
Superfly
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RE: Cadillac Confirms Production Of ELR - Volt 1.5

Mon Aug 20, 2012 3:40 pm

Looks like something you'd win inside of a bubble-gum machine.
Is this where our tax dollars went to?
No wonder G.M. is about to ask for another bailout.
Bring back the Concorde
 
Flighty
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RE: Cadillac Confirms Production Of ELR - Volt 1.5

Mon Aug 20, 2012 3:42 pm

I dislike GM. But their car and truck lines circa 2014 are looking exceptional.
 
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kngkyle
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RE: Cadillac Confirms Production Of ELR - Volt 1.5

Mon Aug 20, 2012 3:47 pm

The sides and front look alright, but I am not a fan of the pointy rear ends Cadillac has been doing. Kills it for me.
 
PHLBOS
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RE: Cadillac Confirms Production Of ELR - Volt 1.5

Mon Aug 20, 2012 4:03 pm

Is it me or does the above-pic look more like a shortened CTS coupe?
"TransEastern! You'll feel like you've never left the ground because we treat you like dirt!" SNL Parady ad circa 1981
 
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falstaff
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RE: Cadillac Confirms Production Of ELR - Volt 1.5

Mon Aug 20, 2012 4:10 pm

Quoting PHLBOS (Reply 4):
Is it me or does the above-pic look more like a shortened CTS coupe?

It does...

I assume this car is built on the Delta II platform, like the Volt.

I know I am odd, but I like the Volt and would buy one if I could park the thing inside to charge it. My garage is for my toys and stuff, not for modern cars that will be sold in a few years.
My mug slaketh over on Falstaff N503
 
mham001
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RE: Cadillac Confirms Production Of ELR - Volt 1.5

Mon Aug 20, 2012 4:12 pm

Quoting Superfly (Reply 1):
Looks like something you'd win inside of a bubble-gum machine.

Cadillac also debuted a flagship concept in Monterey. Another hybrid with a 425hp V6 combined with an electric system. Nearly 200 inches long, Cadillac looks to get back in the boat market.

 
Superfly
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RE: Cadillac Confirms Production Of ELR - Volt 1.5

Mon Aug 20, 2012 4:17 pm

Quoting mham001 (Reply 6):
Another hybrid with a 425hp V6 combined with an electric system.



I wont believe it until I see it.
I'm sure there will be an available V8 or larger for the serious driver that does want to fool around with hybrid gimics.
Bring back the Concorde
 
flight152
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RE: Cadillac Confirms Production Of ELR - Volt 1.5

Mon Aug 20, 2012 4:19 pm

Quoting mham001 (Thread starter):
attempting to build on the growing success of the Voltec drivetrain.

Success measured how? Certainly not on sales figures.
 
mham001
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RE: Cadillac Confirms Production Of ELR - Volt 1.5

Mon Aug 20, 2012 4:22 pm

Quoting Superfly (Reply 7):
I'm sure there will be an available V8 or larger for the serious driver that does want to fool around with hybrid gimics.

Unlikely. I could see Cadillac doing several models with Voltec only. It is a great way to get around CAFE and costs are more easily swallowed in the luxury market. I read the ELR price point is rumored at $60k.

[Edited 2012-08-20 09:33:30]
 
Superfly
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RE: Cadillac Confirms Production Of ELR - Volt 1.5

Mon Aug 20, 2012 4:46 pm

Quoting mham001 (Reply 9):
I could see Cadillac doing several models with Voltec only.

I doubt it will even go in to production.
Bring back the Concorde
 
mham001
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RE: Cadillac Confirms Production Of ELR - Volt 1.5

Mon Aug 20, 2012 4:46 pm

Quoting Flight152 (Reply 8):
Success measured how? Certainly not on sales figures.

Last I read, it leads all cars sold in customer satisfaction.

Here is the list of cars that the Volt outsold last month...

Pos Model July /11 Jun 2012 /11 Pos 2011
134 Chevrolet Volt 1,849 n/a 144 10,666 272% 149 204
135 Chevrolet Avalanche 1,823 12% 147 12,825 24% 132 143
136 Mercedes M Class 1,790 -36% 111 22,416 32% 97 112
137 Buick Regal 1,784 -49% 124 16,612 -35% 119 84
138 Volvo XC60 1,782 73% 148 10,292 21% 151 153
139 Cadillac XTS 1,739 new 186 2,492 new 222 -
140 Audi A5 1,732 32% 149 9,734 7% 154 151
141 Lincoln MKX 1,724 -10% 136 14,152 11% 127 134
142 Scion xB 1,708 43% 137 11,914 22% 137 144
143 BMW 7 Series 1,696 159% 211 7,300 20% 167 168
144 Audi A6 1,691 67% 145 10,275 124% 152 192
145 Toyota Avalon 1,690 -37% 142 18,341 14% 114 117
146 Lexus GS 1,662 410% 131 12,732 429% 133 214
147 Scion FR-S 1,649 new 117 4,419 new 195 -
148 Lexus CT 1,499 -3% 155 10,945 106% 146 189
149 Mitsubishi Outlander Sport 1,462 -7% 154 9,512 1% 156 150
150 Chevrolet Spark 1,460 new - 1,460 new 232 -
151 Acura ILX 1,410 new 164 2,659 new 220 -
152 Hyundai Veracruz 1,370 37% 198 5,153 0% 183 184
153 Nissan Quest 1,368 -4% 133 12,111 83% 136 171
154 Nissan Armada 1,363 -8% 143 10,837 6% 148 142
155 Mitsubishi Lancer 1,354 -31% 152 9,849 -20% 153 136
156 Mazda6 1,289 -49% 125 26,658 47% 87 105
157 Toyota Yaris 1,271 -9% 132 21,242 62% 106 125
158 Range Rover Sport 1,212 4% 158 8,419 4% 158 156
159 Kia Sedona 1,181 -58% 139 11,793 -15% 139 133
160 Porsche Cayenne 1,119 2% 169 7,606 -7% 163 158
161 Ford Police Interceptor Sedan 1,106 new 156 3,962 new 204 -
162 Suzuki SX4 1,098 -7% 160 7,555 4% 164 161
163 VW Routan 1,094 -32% 166 6,116 -21% 172 160
164 Toyota FJ Cruiser 1,037 -18% 165 7,415 -9% 165 159
165 Toyota Sequoia 1,020 -1% 162 7,269 5% 168 162
166 Mazda5 994 -16% 167 7,939 -39% 161 124
167 Chevrolet Corvette 987 -23% 153 8,009 -2% 160 157
168 Honda Ridgeline 981 160% 159 8,250 48% 159 172
169 Scion xD 977 37% 170 6,479 10% 169 174
170 Hyundai Azera 977 578% 172 4,143 234% 201 229
171 Mazda2 905 -16% 176 11,056 30% 143 154
172 Audi Q7 891 13% 196 5,340 -3% 180 180
173 Infiniti QX56 890 -12% 168 7,359 11% 166 165
174 Lincoln MKS 878 -20% 163 7,682 22% 162 173
175 Mercedes S Class 852 -4% 174 6,362 -1% 170 166
176 BMW 6 Series 843 50% 203 4,420 164% 194 227
177 Lexus GX 813 -2% 182 5,701 -12% 173 164
178 Smart Fortwo 780 138% 171 5,528 1590% 178 206
179 Volvo XC90 773 -21% 185 5,611 -7% 175 175
180 Dodge Dart 772 new 234 974 new 240 -
181 VW Touareg 740 42% 183 5,254 45% 181 196
182 Lincoln MKT 738 57% 194 4,386 47% 196 210
183 GMC Canyon 720 -49% 177 6,361 14% 171 185
184 Porsche 911 684 42% 178 5,517 46% 179 195
185 Ford Police Interceptor Utility 684 new 209 2,857 new 217 -
186 Range Rover 672 -16% 188 4,832 -17% 186 176
187 Mercedes CLS Class 665 -5% 184 4,593 126% 191 224
188 Nissan 370Z 654 19% 189 5,127 1% 184 182
189 Infiniti M 652 -6% 181 5,593 -9% 176 167
190 Nissan NV 651 -4% 187 5,536 212% 177 201
191 Audi A3 651 49% 205 4,229 11% 199 194
192 Mitsubishi Outlander 632 -34% 197 4,699 -18% 189 179
193 Porsche Panamera 627 1% 206 4,732 14% 188 193
194 Range Rover Evoque 621 new 199 4,976 new 185 -
195 Mazda MX-5 590 4% 204 4,016 10% 202 197
196 Audi A7 578 -18% 200 4,827 79% 187 216
197 Nissan Cube 578 -48% 191 4,663 -63% 190 128
198 Mitsubishi Galant 576 -64% 151 11,202 -6% 142 137
199 Scion iQ 557 new 192 5,641 new 174 -
200 Dodge Cargo Van 555 new 161 3,998 new 203 -
201 Lexus LS 536 -14% 217 3,572 -26% 205 183
202 VW Eos 533 -54% 190 4,221 -13% 200 191
203 Land Rover LR4 532 -17% 195 4,296 -9% 198 186
204 Suzuki Kizashi 526 -21% 213 3,544 -20% 206 190
205 Lincoln Navigator 525 -9% 207 4,381 0% 197 188
206 Dodge Caliber 520 -84% 173 9,502 -62% 157 87
207 Chevrolet Caprice PPV 500 456% 226 1,680 984% 228 250
208 Infiniti FX 498 -23% 208 5,195 -7% 182 178
209 Subaru BRZ 498 new 180 1,587 new 230 -
210 Jaguar XF 485 3% 216 3,458 20% 208 212
211 Suzuki Grand Vitara 473 23% 221 3,035 3% 214 207
212 Mercedes SL Class 449 383% 224 2,024 94% 225 236
213 Jaguar XJ 421 9% 220 3,089 -10% 212 198
214 Volvo XC70 420 -28% 218 3,042 -4% 213 205
215 Honda Insight 419 -57% 215 4,460 -63% 193 129
216 Ford Ranger 413 -94% 175 18,855 -48% 112 65
217 Audi A8 401 -11% 210 2,949 -11% 215 202
218 Nissan LEAF 395 -58% 212 3,543 -26% 207 187
219 BMW 1 Series 379 -43% 193 4,543 -14% 192 181
220 Hyundai Equus 362 20% 223 2,347 39% 223 220
221 Porsche Boxster 359 77% 219 983 -25% 238 228
222 Honda CR-Z 330 -62% 222 2,734 -69% 219 148
223 Mazda CX-7 324 90% 157 10,983 41% 144 104
224 Volvo C70 306 -27% 179 3,170 -6% 210 199
225 Lexus LX 306 16% 225 2,874 65% 216 219
226 Land Rover LR2 283 33% 229 1,788 26% 227 226
227 Volvo C30 271 -13% 230 1,638 -16% 229 218
228 BMW X6 259 -55% 202 3,095 -7% 211 203
229 Toyota Land Cruiser 259 162% 228 1,448 51% 233 237
230 Ford Crown Victoria 243 -95% 232 2,820 -92% 218 64
231 Mercedes SLK 235 -79% 227 2,499 13% 221 230
232 Volvo S80 231 -50% 214 2,148 -28% 224 208
233 Infiniti EX 215 -62% 231 2,011 -42% 226 200
234 BMW Z4 173 -62% 233 1,585 -36% 231 215
235 Audi TT 169 -5% 236 1,311 7% 235 231
236 Suzuki Equator 167 -22% 235 1,115 -9% 237 233
237 Subaru Tribeca 151 -36% 237 1,242 -18% 236 225
238 Nissan GT-R 128 129% 239 711 -19% 244 238
239 Jaguar XK 105 -17% 240 970 -11% 241 235
240 Mitsubishi Eclipse 93 -88% 238 977 -84% 239 170
241 Acura ZDX 85 -17% 246 501 -52% 250 234
242 Lincoln Town Car 77 -91% 243 764 -89% 243 163
243 Mercedes G Class 64 -44% 248 525 -30% 248 242
244 Mercedes SLS AMG 59 20% 241 618 58% 246 246
245 Audi R8 55 -33% 245 558 -18% 247 243
246 Dodge Nitro 45 -98% 242 3,182 -77% 209 122
247 Acura RL 40 -43% 251 254 -72% 257 239
248 Mercedes CL Class 39 62% 247 426 -20% 254 244
249 Mitsubishi Endeavour 34 -97% 249 452 -93% 252 169
250 Mitsubishi i-MiEV 33 new 250 366 new 256 -
251 Mercedes R Class 32 -43% 201 1,402 -25% 234 217
252 Cadillac DTS 20 -97% 244 449 -95% 253 141
253 Dodge Dakota 19 -98% 255 478 -95% 251 146
254 Porsche Cayman 14 -89% 252 415 -51% 255 241
255 Buick Lucerne 11 -99% 254 954 -94% 242 110
256 Cadillac STS 7 -95% 253 149 -94% 258 209
257 Lexus HS 4 -99% 257 626 -62% 245 221
258 Lexus LFA 3 -57% 260 27 -25% 262 253
259 Mazda Tribute 2 -99% 261 503 -69% 249 223
260 Chevrolet Aveo 2 -100% 259 58 -100% 260 89


http://bestsellingcarsblog.com/2012/...012-new-gen-nissan-altima-up-to-5/
 
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Tugger
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RE: Cadillac Confirms Production Of ELR - Volt 1.5

Mon Aug 20, 2012 4:52 pm

Quoting Superfly (Reply 1):
Is this where our tax dollars went to?

Nope.

Quoting mham001 (Thread starter):
Voltec v1.5 may include the long-rumored bump in electric-only range that CEO Ackerson has recently been talking about. All electric range is rumored to increase to 70-100 miles and the car will have a 4 cylinder generator. Performance figures have not been released,

As electric vehicle development progresses I look forward to the use of battery/generator combo's expanding and the performance to increase greatly as the direct electric drive systems mature.

Quoting falstaff (Reply 5):
I know I am odd, but I like the Volt and would buy one if I could park the thing inside to charge it. My garage is for my toys and stuff, not for modern cars that will be sold in a few years.

I too like the Volt and look forward to its technology and drive-train to be used in an expanded lineup of cars. For a long time I have thought that its concept is just the best and most effective for a commuter car: A battery and electric drive-train with a generator connected to it for "assist". I think ultimately all drive-trains will go electric and the power source will vary (battery, fuel cell, generator.

Quoting Superfly (Reply 7):
I'm sure there will be an available V8 or larger for the serious driver that does want to fool around with hybrid gimics.

A V8 May be available but I suspect the "hybrid gimmick" version will begin to outsell them enormously as the electric performance can blow a gasoline version out of the water. Just give it time.

Quoting mham001 (Reply 11):
Last I read, it leads all cars sold in customer satisfaction.

Here is the list of cars that the Volt outsold last month...

   You can't say that, the car is a FAILURE and only exists because of gub'ment commandment. It's really horrible....

Tugg
I don’t know that I am unafraid to be myself, but it is hard to be somebody else. -W. Shatner
 
BMI727
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RE: Cadillac Confirms Production Of ELR - Volt 1.5

Mon Aug 20, 2012 6:13 pm

Quoting mham001 (Thread starter):
Cadillac Confirms Production Of ELR - Volt 1.5 

The Volt isn't expensive enough?

Quoting Superfly (Reply 1):
Is this where our tax dollars went to?

No, those are probably going to keep Opel solvent.   

Quoting PHLBOS (Reply 4):
Is it me or does the above-pic look more like a shortened CTS coupe?

You know how some people make those awful F355 replicas off of a Fiero chassis? The ELR looks like someone tried to make a CTS coupe replica off a Honda Civic chassis.

Quoting Flight152 (Reply 8):
Success measured how? Certainly not on sales figures.

With the Fisker Karma now being recalled for catching fire (again), the Volt is the default winner in the electric car wars.

Besides, when has having a subpar product ever been a problem for Cadillac? After the Cimarron, Allante, et. al, it's basically Caddie's schtick. Put it on billboards: "The New 2014 Cadillac ELR: Because You Know It Can't Be Worse Than The XTS"
Why do Aerospace Engineering students have to turn things in on time?
 
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RE: Cadillac Confirms Production Of ELR - Volt 1.5

Mon Aug 20, 2012 6:36 pm

Quoting BMI727 (Reply 13):
No, those are probably going to keep Opel solvent.


Got it.
Thanks.

Quoting BMI727 (Reply 13):
The Volt isn't expensive enough?


Good point. I forgot about that.

Quoting tugger (Reply 12):
A V8 May be available but I suspect the "hybrid gimmick" version will begin to outsell them enormously as the electric performance can blow a gasoline version out of the water. Just give it time.


The more powerful version of any car always gets outsold by the cheaper credit option. Mercedes sales a hell of a lot more V6 and V8 models of their S-class than they do the V12.

Quoting BMI727 (Reply 13):
With the Fisker Karma now being recalled for catching fire (again),


Wow, I passed up those stories. Seriously?
Our tax dollars went overseas to make flamable cars in Finland?

Quoting BMI727 (Reply 13):
Besides, when has having a subpar product ever been a problem for Cadillac? After the Cimarron, Allante, et. al, it's basically Caddie's schtick. Put it on billboards: "The New 2014 Cadillac ELR: Because You Know It Can't Be Worse Than The XTS"


Haha!  
The Allante wasn't a bad car. The Cadillac failures were the 1981 4/6/8 engine, gas to diesel engine (1979-1985) and the HT4100 aluminum engine (1981-1989).
ALL of their failure were to confirm to government mandated CAFE laws.
Government needs to butt-out of the auto industry and let people buy the cars they want and let the manufactures build the cars people want to buy without any government coercion to buy specific vehicles.
Bring back the Concorde
 
mham001
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RE: Cadillac Confirms Production Of ELR - Volt 1.5

Mon Aug 20, 2012 6:48 pm

Quoting BMI727 (Reply 13):
The Volt isn't expensive enough?

People who buy it say it compares favorably with other $40k cars.

Quoting BMI727 (Reply 13):
With the Fisker Karma now being recalled for catching fire (again), the Volt is the default winner in the electric car wars.

Except that the Volt is not in the electric class.

Quoting BMI727 (Reply 13):
Besides, when has having a subpar product ever been a problem for Cadillac?

And yet they outperfom Acura, Audi and BMW in reliability, and that's only the A and B names on the list.

http://autos.jdpower.com/ratings/dep...study=909201235&catStudy=909201236
 
Superfly
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RE: Cadillac Confirms Production Of ELR - Volt 1.5

Mon Aug 20, 2012 7:21 pm

Quoting mham001 (Reply 15):
People who buy it say it compares favorably with other $40k cars.



In terms of what?
Niche market vehicle owners (myself included) will always have a favorable opinion of their vehicle of choice. They are loyalist. Other vehicles in the $40K range off the top of my head would be the Ford Mustang GT convertible, Chrysler 300C SRT8, Cadillac CTS (fully loaded), Mercedes E-class (base model) or Lexus GS-series.
There is no way that the Chevrolet Volt can stack up against any of these vehicles I listed.
The Volt would only win in terms of efficiency but someone concerned about cheap transportation shouldn't be looking in the $40K range anyway.
Bring back the Concorde
 
PHLBOS
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RE: Cadillac Confirms Production Of ELR - Volt 1.5

Mon Aug 20, 2012 7:33 pm

Quoting mham001 (Reply 6):
Cadillac also debuted a flagship concept in Monterey. Another hybrid with a 425hp V6 combined with an electric system.

Certainly a nice-looking vehicle.

Quoting mham001 (Reply 6):
Nearly 200 inches long, Cadillac looks to get back in the boat market.

Sorry, but 200 inches OAL is not even considered full-size in my book, let alone a boat. For comparison purposes, the last Lincoln Town Car (standard length model) was about 215", the '96 Cadillac Fleetwood was about 225" and the gigantic '76 Fleetwood was about 233".

Quoting mham001 (Reply 9):
It is a great way to get around CAFE

Which is only one-election (and not just the Presidency, mind you) away of being fully-repealed.

Quoting mham001 (Reply 11):
Here is the list of cars that the Volt outsold last month...

I know that you personally didn't compile that list, but there are several vehicles in that listing that have been out production during this past year. That said, any vehicle could conceivably outsell a discontinued model.

Quoting Superfly (Reply 14):
The Cadillac failures were the 1981 4/6/8 engine

If memory serves, many of Chrysler's current engines offer a variable displacement of sorts; not sure if Caddy quietly revived that concept in some of their engines but didn't use the old V8-6-4 moniker. Cadillac's old V8-6-4 looked good in paper, but like everything else from that era, it was rushed into production too quickly.
"TransEastern! You'll feel like you've never left the ground because we treat you like dirt!" SNL Parady ad circa 1981
 
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RE: Cadillac Confirms Production Of ELR - Volt 1.5

Mon Aug 20, 2012 7:34 pm

Quoting Superfly (Reply 16):
In terms of what?
Niche market vehicle owners (myself included) will always have a favorable opinion of their vehicle of choice. They are loyalist. Other vehicles in the $40K range off the top of my head would be the Ford Mustang GT convertible, Chrysler 300C SRT8, Cadillac CTS (fully loaded), Mercedes E-class (base model) or Lexus GS-series.
There is no way that the Chevrolet Volt can stack up against any of these vehicles I listed.
The Volt would only win in terms of efficiency but someone concerned about cheap transportation shouldn't be looking in the $40K range anyway.

This article has what I think is a fair comparison of the Volt and other vehicle. It rates the Volt as #8 out of 19.
http://usnews.rankingsandreviews.com...cks/rankings/Upscale-Midsize-Cars/

Probably the best/closest comparison could be the VW CC, and the Acura TSX. You could always throw in the Lexus Corrol... I mean HS.

Tugg
I don’t know that I am unafraid to be myself, but it is hard to be somebody else. -W. Shatner
 
Superfly
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RE: Cadillac Confirms Production Of ELR - Volt 1.5

Mon Aug 20, 2012 7:45 pm

Quoting PHLBOS (Reply 17):
Which is only one-election (and not just the Presidency, mind you) away of being fully-repealed.



I can't wait!   
Luckily Romney is a car guy and comes from a car family that knows how to run a car business.

Quoting tugger (Reply 18):
This article has what I think is a fair comparison of the Volt and other vehicle. It rates the Volt as #8 out of 19.


Sorry but I'm skeptical of any vehicle that gets as much media hype and government support as this vehicle.
Bring back the Concorde
 
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Tugger
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RE: Cadillac Confirms Production Of ELR - Volt 1.5

Mon Aug 20, 2012 7:55 pm

Quoting Superfly (Reply 19):
Sorry but I'm skeptical of any vehicle that gets as much media hype and government support as this vehicle.

Sorry, but that is just silly. One could say the same about any post you make because we all know your preference in vehicles. But we don't because you make your case and work to support what you say.

The article I posted is simple in what it presents and compares it against a fair range of vehicles. Whatever "support" you think is going on has nothing to do with the comparisons being fair and valid.

Tugg
I don’t know that I am unafraid to be myself, but it is hard to be somebody else. -W. Shatner
 
Superfly
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RE: Cadillac Confirms Production Of ELR - Volt 1.5

Mon Aug 20, 2012 8:03 pm

Quoting tugger (Reply 20):
One could say the same about any post you make because we all know your preference in vehicles.



My taste in vehicles don't receive media hype, tax credits, carpool lane access (in some states), nor were produced with taxpayer dollars to achieve a desired result.
See the difference?
Bring back the Concorde
 
mham001
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RE: Cadillac Confirms Production Of ELR - Volt 1.5

Mon Aug 20, 2012 8:08 pm

Quoting Superfly (Reply 16):
Niche market vehicle owners (myself included) will always have a favorable opinion of their vehicle of choice. They are loyalist. Other vehicles in the $40K range off the top of my head would be the Ford Mustang GT convertible, Chrysler 300C SRT8, Cadillac CTS (fully loaded), Mercedes E-class (base model) or Lexus GS-series.
There is no way that the Chevrolet Volt can stack up against any of these vehicles I listed.
The Volt would only win in terms of efficiency but someone concerned about cheap transportation shouldn't be looking in the $40K range anyway.

From what I read, it draws from BMW 3 series and Lexus in the midsize sedan catagory, in addition to those moving up from the Prius. Owners say it is quick, it handles better than anybody expected (low CG), they seem to enjoy the interior features, it is well built and it has been very reliable so far. The problem with the critics is that they try to compare it with economy cars. It isn't. One drawback seems to be lack of a middle rear seat.
 
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Tugger
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RE: Cadillac Confirms Production Of ELR - Volt 1.5

Mon Aug 20, 2012 8:15 pm

Quoting Superfly (Reply 21):
My taste in vehicles don't receive media hype, tax credits, carpool lane access (in some states), nor were produced with taxpayer dollars to achieve a desired result.
See the difference?

How much "media hype" have you seen? I have seen very, very little if any "hype" about the volt. I saw some in the beginning because it was "the next big thing" and then when it became "the next big failure". But I have not seen much hype on it beyond the scale it has for the market it is in. In my opinion I have seen about the same amount of info on most other cars as I have for the Volt (beyond what I just noted above).

Tax credits? Car pool lane access? That is available to any vehicle that meets whatever criteria is set, the Leaf and other cars meet them too. While I don't fully agree with such concepts it is not just the Volt.

Now assuming you are not trying to continue the popular but incorrect trope that the Volt was funded by and driven by government, the taxpayer has supported production of almost every one of the the vehicles currently produced (including those in the past that you love so). The tax rules are fully utilized for R&D spending and development of every car. Not just the Volt.

Do you see the difference?

Tugg
I don’t know that I am unafraid to be myself, but it is hard to be somebody else. -W. Shatner
 
Superfly
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RE: Cadillac Confirms Production Of ELR - Volt 1.5

Mon Aug 20, 2012 8:21 pm

Quoting tugger (Reply 23):
How much "media hype" have you seen?

Lots, including a Presidential visit to the production line.

Quoting tugger (Reply 23):
That is available to any vehicle that meets whatever criteria is set, the Leaf and other cars meet them too.

Throw all of those in there too.

Quoting tugger (Reply 23):
Now assuming you are not trying to continue the popular but incorrect

It's very correct.


I'm not here to argue. If GM can keep people employed then I am all for it.
Bring back the Concorde
 
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Tugger
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RE: Cadillac Confirms Production Of ELR - Volt 1.5

Mon Aug 20, 2012 8:26 pm

Quoting Superfly (Reply 24):
Lots, including a Presidential visit to the production line.

And he visits plenty of other places too.

Quoting Superfly (Reply 24):
Throw all of those in there too.

Fair enough.

Quoting Superfly (Reply 24):
I'm not here to argue. If GM can keep people employed then I am all for it.

I agree. Ultimately I hope they keep many, many people employed for many, many years to come. Their success will be determined by the product they produce and I hope they keep their eye on the ball and produce good products that consumers will buy. I very much support American manufacturing and want it to thrive.

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RE: Cadillac Confirms Production Of ELR - Volt 1.5

Mon Aug 20, 2012 8:28 pm

Quoting tugger (Reply 25):
And he visits plenty of other places too.

Like Solyndra.   

Quoting tugger (Reply 25):
Ultimately I hope they keep many, many people employed for many, many years to come. I very much support American manufacturing and want it to thrive.

  
We can agree on that.  
Bring back the Concorde
 
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RE: Cadillac Confirms Production Of ELR - Volt 1.5

Mon Aug 20, 2012 9:11 pm

Quoting tugger (Reply 12):
I too like the Volt and look forward to its technology and drive-train to be used in an expanded lineup of cars. For a long time I have thought that its concept is just the best and most effective for a commuter car: A battery and electric drive-train with a generator connected to it for "assist". I think ultimately all drive-trains will go electric and the power source will vary (battery, fuel cell, generator.

It's funny here how some whine about the distinctive look of the Prius yet now we see a car that looks pretty mainstream and that's no good either.

I wouldn't be too surprised if I give this car or one like it a good look at some point in the future. I like the idea of a stylish electric car and I could live quite well with a predictable 70 mile range.

Quoting Superfly (Reply 16):
Other vehicles in the $40K range off the top of my head would be the Ford Mustang GT convertible, Chrysler 300C SRT8, Cadillac CTS (fully loaded), Mercedes E-class (base model) or Lexus GS-series.
http://www.cadillac.com/cts-luxury-coupe/build-your-own.html shows that the "premium" CTS starts at $49k, and without leaving the first page I got over $50k by adding all wheel drive. Premium paint += $1k. Power Sunroof += $700. Various odds and ends brings you to $53,375 but minus $2k for 'cash offers' to $51,375 but then add in title, tags, any warrantee coverage, etc makes it hard to call the loaded vehicle a $40k class car.
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RE: Cadillac Confirms Production Of ELR - Volt 1.5

Mon Aug 20, 2012 10:06 pm

Quoting PHLBOS (Reply 17):
I know that you personally didn't compile that list, but there are several vehicles in that listing that have been out production during this past year. That said, any vehicle could conceivably outsell a discontinued model.

Of course there are, it is a list of vehicles sold, not vehicles produced.

Quoting PHLBOS (Reply 17):
Which is only one-election (and not just the Presidency, mind you) away of being fully-repealed.

As a good Conservative, I will be voting for Obama as I don't believe there is anything more important for the future of the USA than losing its foreign oil dependence.
 
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RE: Cadillac Confirms Production Of ELR - Volt 1.5

Mon Aug 20, 2012 11:12 pm

Quoting mham001 (Reply 28):
As a good Conservative, I will be voting for Obama as I don't believe there is anything more important for the future of the USA than losing its foreign oil dependence.

President Obama has shown no inclination at all towards achieving that laudable goal.
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RE: Cadillac Confirms Production Of ELR - Volt 1.5

Tue Aug 21, 2012 2:25 am

Quoting falstaff (Reply 5):
I assume this car is built on the Delta II platform, like the Volt.
2013 Cadillac ELR


Indeed, it is a based on GM's Dellta II platform - shared with the Volt, Chevy Cruze, and the Buick Verano - and numerous Opel & Holden models. I have seen the Converj concept vehicle "in the flesh" from which the ELR is spawned - and the Converj was really beautiful. Cadillac took time to evolve the CTS' edgy "art and science" design language for the new ATS and the big XTS sedans - but the ELR is exceptional, in my opinion.

The next-generation "VOLTEC" system will give the ELR the electric range of the Volt, maybe a little more. The ELR will be somewhat heavier than the Volt - thanks to all of the standard Cadillac power equipment and the use of more sound deadening materials - and the range extending internal combustion engine/generator is rumored to be a 2.0 liter turbocharged Ecotec 4 cylinder petrol engine. Cadillac also plans to extensively use expensive high-strength, light-weight steel in the construction of the ELR. And the price tag for the ELR should be about $60K USD, as was mentioned above. In the days when we have Porsche hybrids and movie stars driving Prius hatchbacks, I think the ELR will be a popular car with wealthier buyers.
"Those who would give up essential liberty to purchase temporary safety deserve neither liberty nor safety!" B.Franklin
 
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RE: Cadillac Confirms Production Of ELR - Volt 1.5

Tue Aug 21, 2012 4:14 am

Quoting Superfly (Reply 32):
How about the base CTS?

Base CTS is approximately $36000 USD while the base ATS sedan is priced from $33000. The ELR (meaning "Electric Eldorado" perhaps?) is meant to be upscale, more of a Fisker Atlantic (the Karma's little brother) competitor.
"Those who would give up essential liberty to purchase temporary safety deserve neither liberty nor safety!" B.Franklin
 
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RE: Cadillac Confirms Production Of ELR - Volt 1.5

Tue Aug 21, 2012 4:29 am

Quoting stasisLAX (Reply 33):
Base CTS is approximately $36000 USD


Thanks for the correction.

Quoting stasisLAX (Reply 33):
The ELR (meaning "Electric Eldorado" perhaps?)



Oh God no!   
There is NO comparison to the majestic Eldorado.
Bring back the Concorde
 
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RE: Cadillac Confirms Production Of ELR - Volt 1.5

Tue Aug 21, 2012 10:45 am

Quoting stasisLAX (Reply 30):
Cadillac took time to evolve the CTS' edgy "art and science" design language for the new ATS and the big XTS sedans - but the ELR is exceptional, in my opinion.

I'd say it's an improvement, but that's as far as I'd go.

They've toned down the 'grinning idiot' front end to 'bucktoothed moron'.

Still too garish for my tastes.

Quoting stasisLAX (Reply 30):
In the days when we have Porsche hybrids and movie stars driving Prius hatchbacks, I think the ELR will be a popular car with wealthier buyers.

I do wish them well. For my dollar, I better totally be in love with it to spend $60k+, and I don't think this will do it.
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RE: Cadillac Confirms Production Of ELR - Volt 1.5

Tue Aug 21, 2012 1:58 pm

Quoting mham001 (Reply 28):
As a good Conservative, I will be voting for Obama as I don't believe there is anything more important for the future of the USA than losing its foreign oil dependence.

You do realize that w/Obama, you also get the likely return of Interior Secretary Ken Salazar (who would shut off all domestic oil drilling if given the chance) and/or Energy Secretary Stephen Hu (Mr. "$8/Gallon Gasoline").

Everybody wants to get off the use of imported oil but the most Democrats & liberals don't believe in the use of domestic oil and gas. That's where the two political views differ the most.
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RE: Cadillac Confirms Production Of ELR - Volt 1.5

Tue Aug 21, 2012 3:19 pm

Quoting PHLBOS (Reply 34):
That's where the two political views differ the most.

I think the difference is that one party wants to get off petroleum as fast as possible, and is willing to do a few things to seed the alternative fuel industry, whereas the other ...
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RE: Cadillac Confirms Production Of ELR - Volt 1.5

Tue Aug 21, 2012 3:24 pm

Quoting sccutler (Reply 29):
President Obama has shown no inclination at all towards achieving that laudable goal.

It is already happening. You may not have noticed but our fuel consumption is down.

Quoting stasisLAX (Reply 30):
The next-generation "VOLTEC" system will give the ELR the electric range of the Volt, maybe a little more.

I think there is little doubt that the V1.5 will have a bump in electric range. Ackerson, as late as last week, has been touting battery advancements and 200 mile range coming.

Quoting PHLBOS (Reply 34):
Everybody wants to get off the use of imported oil but the most Democrats & liberals don't believe in the use of domestic oil and gas. That's where the two political views differ the most.

If that were the case, Limbaugh and his Republicans would not have spent so much energy trying to kill the Volt. These people are not Conservatives but oil mongers, paid for by lobbyists. Our natural gas is good, and for 1/3 the cost of drilling and refining oil, we can use our gas to create electricity. Or we can just burn the NG direct, albeit less efficiently. After 3 oil wars in 20 years and the BP accident, there is no doubt that oil needs to be yesterday's news.
 
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RE: Cadillac Confirms Production Of ELR - Volt 1.5

Tue Aug 21, 2012 3:55 pm

Quoting mham001 (Reply 36):
After 3 oil wars in 20 years and the BP accident, there is no doubt that oil needs to be yesterday's news.

It seems to me that "conservative" minds just don't want to go there...
Inspiration, move me brightly!
 
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RE: Cadillac Confirms Production Of ELR - Volt 1.5

Tue Aug 21, 2012 5:37 pm

Quoting Revelation (Reply 33):
For my dollar, I better totally be in love with it to spend $60k+, and I don't think this will do it.

Here's what you do: go to your local BMW dealer and buy a 3 Series hybrid. That way you get two more doors, a better driving experience, and another $10k in your pocket. The only potential downside is not being obviously a hybrid from a distance.

That dumb Chevy Volt commercial with the girl who wants to go to Hawaii drives me up a wall. If she'd just bought any normal compact car instead she could have been to Hawaii and back already. Every time I see it I want to reach through the television and strangle the bitch.

Quoting mham001 (Reply 36):
If that were the case, Limbaugh and his Republicans would not have spent so much energy trying to kill the Volt.

It's not a matter of killing the Volt. If it can sell on its own good for GM. But stop throwing tax credits and bailing out the company.

And I'm sick of the government pushing their way into my life telling what I should or should not drive. If you have a problem with fuel costs, by all means ride a bike, but leave me alone.
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RE: Cadillac Confirms Production Of ELR - Volt 1.5

Tue Aug 21, 2012 5:50 pm

Quoting mham001 (Reply 36):
You may not have noticed but our fuel consumption is down.

Recessions have been known to do that. More unemployed people mean less people are driving to/from work.

Quoting mham001 (Reply 36):
Our natural gas is good, and for 1/3 the cost of drilling and refining oil, we can use our gas to create electricity.

Last time I checked , it was the liberals that are presently protesting fracking (for natural gas) in Pennsylvania (a state where I reside BTW). And if memory serves, it was the liberals that were protesting the use of nuclear power and the addition of more power plants; despite the fact that some European countries use it more often. A report from 15 to 20 years ago mentioned that 90% of France's electricity was generated from nuclear power.

Quoting mham001 (Reply 36):
Limbaugh and his Republicans would not have spent so much energy trying to kill the Volt.

Their beef regarding the Volt go beyond the vehicle itself; their beef includes the combination of the bailout money and the government mandating the electric vehicle (via CAFE) as opposed to letting the actual market decide.

Let me see if I am reading you correctly: you're not just against the use of imported oil (which I can agree with you on) but you're against the use of all oil regardless of origin. Is that correct? My earlier replies were based on the assumption (which may not be correct based on reading your later posts) that you were only against the use of imported/foreign oil.

Quoting mham001 (Reply 28):
As a good Conservative, I will be voting for Obama

Write in Ron Paul instead, you'll likely get the same result.  
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Kiwirob
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RE: Cadillac Confirms Production Of ELR - Volt 1.5

Tue Aug 21, 2012 6:27 pm

Nice looking small coupe, I'm sure it would also sell well if they made a non hybrid version.
 
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RE: Cadillac Confirms Production Of ELR - Volt 1.5

Tue Aug 21, 2012 8:23 pm

Quoting PHLBOS (Reply 39):
Recessions have been known to do that.

Even with some growth, consumption is down the last months.

Quoting PHLBOS (Reply 39):
Let me see if I am reading you correctly: you're not just against the use of imported oil (which I can agree with you on) but you're against the use of all oil regardless of origin. Is that correct?

No. I am not against the use of our oil. I do understand however that we will not drill our way out of this with domestic oil. Not only that, we will still be paying world market prices, still in need of ensuring worldwide supplies and still bent over the barrel. Unless you are suggesting we nationalize the oil fields, electric will always be the cheaper energy source. It is time for this country to lead us on to other, better means. It is coming, Volts owners have documented proof that tremendous percentages of transportation oil can be supplanted. And if it happens to be cleaner, so what?
 
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RE: Cadillac Confirms Production Of ELR - Volt 1.5

Tue Aug 21, 2012 9:04 pm

Quoting mham001 (Reply 41):
Quoting PHLBOS (Reply 39):
Recessions have been known to do that.

Even with some growth, consumption is down the last months.

Any recent growth (if one wants to call it that) has been anemic at best. We've been in a Real World recession for several years now. Which explains why oil/gas consumption is still down. A mild winter in the northeast also helped greatly in that as well. Not to mention rising gas prices again.

Quoting mham001 (Reply 41):
electric will always be the cheaper energy source.

Are you sure you mean electric there? Electricity needs a source to be generated from, be it hydro, nuclear, or oil, etc.

The batteries that power an electric vehicle (trying to get back on topic here) had to be made or generated from some source or component.
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RE: Cadillac Confirms Production Of ELR - Volt 1.5

Tue Aug 21, 2012 9:28 pm

Quoting KiwiRob (Reply 40):
Nice looking small coupe, I'm sure it would also sell well if they made a non hybrid version.

Why would anyone buy that instead of a CTS?
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RE: Cadillac Confirms Production Of ELR - Volt 1.5

Tue Aug 21, 2012 10:07 pm

Quoting PHLBOS (Reply 42):
Any recent growth (if one wants to call it that) has been anemic at best. We've been in a Real World recession for several years now. Which explains why oil/gas consumption is still down. A mild winter in the northeast also helped greatly in that as well. Not to mention rising gas prices again.

You aren't getting it. Gas use is down this year, a stable year.

http://www.advisorperspectives.com/dshort/charts/inflation/gasoline-volume-sales.gif

Quoting PHLBOS (Reply 42):

Are you sure you mean electric there?


I know, I went for speed over quality there. How about, the generation of electricity is cheaper and cleaner than the generation of fuel from oil.

Voltec technology has so far allowed Volt owners to drive 77 million all-electric miles, saving 4 million gallons of gasoline (not sure how they got that), as of today. http://www.chevrolet.com/volt-electr...tml?cmp=OLA_BRAND_6281040_49641403

Lutz was right. This is a game changer.
 
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RE: Cadillac Confirms Production Of ELR - Volt 1.5

Tue Aug 21, 2012 10:08 pm

Quoting BMI727 (Reply 38):
If you have a problem with fuel costs

Fuel prices, you mean ? That doesn't really cover your costs. 8$ a gallon is the price here currently and while it's not good news life still goes on (meaning most people are currently on a beach and they got there with their car).

Quoting PHLBOS (Reply 39):
A report from 15 to 20 years ago mentioned that 90% of France's electricity was generated from nuclear power.

It's 75 to 80%. Then 10% is hydroelectricity, 10% coal/oil/gas (peak power) and the rest is renewable.

But the new socialist president has a long term plan to go down to 50% nuclear by shutting down the oldest plants.
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RE: Cadillac Confirms Production Of ELR - Volt 1.5

Wed Aug 22, 2012 5:03 am

Quoting mham001 (Reply 44):
You aren't getting it. Gas use is down this year, a stable year.

Many factors -- population is urbanizing. Still high unemployment. Moving average 10-year fuel cost is still spiking (this is what informed the existing vehicle fleet). Plus, the newest vehicles are just plain more efficient. So, vehicle miles are not going down so much. Our cars are just getting better all the time. From that alone, our gas burn should continue to fall for the coming decade IMO.
 
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RE: Cadillac Confirms Production Of ELR - Volt 1.5

Wed Aug 22, 2012 5:19 am

Quoting Superfly (Reply 1):
Looks like something you'd win inside of a bubble-gum machine.
Is this where our tax dollars went to?

You've become a bit predictable. If this car had a V18, got 2 MPG and had seats fashioned with Black Rhino skin would you like it better?

Or would you only like it if it were 28 feet long, rear wheel drive and styled in the early 1970's?
 
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RE: Cadillac Confirms Production Of ELR - Volt 1.5

Wed Aug 22, 2012 5:34 am

Quoting BMI727 (Reply 43):

Why would anyone buy that instead of a CTS?

Price, think about it like this why would anyone buy a 1 series coupé or a 3 series coupé when (if we followed your theory) they should be buying 6 series coupé.
 
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RE: Cadillac Confirms Production Of ELR - Volt 1.5

Wed Aug 22, 2012 5:53 am

Quoting KiwiRob (Reply 48):
Price, think about it like this why would anyone buy a 1 series coupé or a 3 series coupé when (if we followed your theory) they should be buying 6 series coupé.

They'd have to seriously drop the price on the ELR for that to make sense. We'd have to be talking cut in half with the ATS also on the block. Buicks too for that matter.
Why do Aerospace Engineering students have to turn things in on time?

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