ltbewr
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2012 Republcan Party Convention - Tampa

Fri Aug 24, 2012 2:43 am

Starting Monday, Aug. 27th and for 4 days, the political Circus comes to Tampa, Florida with the Republican Party Convention to confirm their Presidential and VP Candidates. While much of the Convention is well scripted, some things are not. This is why I have started this thread.

One major potential problem is what is now Hurricane Issac. Based on current tracks, it could make a real mess in Tampa, on Monday and Tuesday, even so much as cause a cancellation, delay or consolidation of events into the later days. This article discusses the potential problems of Issac:
http://news.yahoo.com/blogs/ticket/s...publican-convention-214010391.html

Then you have the FBI putting out all kinds of warnings about potential terror events, including from domestic, left-wing extremists 'anarchists' groups as well as protesters frustrated with limited access to the convention site, hotels, downtown areas to protest, even peacefully.

Of course, there will be the idiots who will get drunk, get caught with prostitutes, hand out with big time lobbyists getting their votes bought. You have controversial policy platform planks (like zero access to abortion), politicians with big mouths possibly scaring off voters and if Romney, Ryan or other speakers soar or crash in their speeches.

Let us discuss the circus in Tampa here, but keep it civil.   
 
WrenchBender
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RE: 2012 Republcan Party Convention - Tampa

Fri Aug 24, 2012 2:56 am

Quoting LTBEWR (Thread starter):
Let us discuss the circus in Tampa here

Do we really have to ?

Quoting LTBEWR (Thread starter):
but keep it civil.

Fat chance............

WrenchBender
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Mir
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RE: 2012 Republcan Party Convention - Tampa

Fri Aug 24, 2012 3:05 am

Quoting LTBEWR (Thread starter):
One major potential problem is what is now Hurricane Issac. Based on current tracks, it could make a real mess in Tampa

New drinking game: take a drink every time a speaker tries to associate weathering the hurricane to surviving Obama's first term.   

-Mir
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ltbewr
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RE: 2012 Republcan Party Convention - Tampa

Fri Aug 24, 2012 11:26 am

Issac seems to tracking slightly further west, most likely hitting the shore of Alabama, far western 'panhandle' Florida. Still the 'right' and stronger side of this storm will affect with at least heavy rains and higher tides the Tampa area.

Apparently Ann Romney's speech time at the convention has been shifted from what would have a the non-broadcast stations covered Monday night, to the covered Tuesday night, when NJ Gov. Christie will give the keynote speaker. Many pushed for this as it will help show Mitt's better side.
 
helvknight
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RE: 2012 Republcan Party Convention - Tampa

Fri Aug 24, 2012 12:20 pm

Just goes to show. With their agenda they can't even attract a female hurricane.   
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Dreadnought
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RE: 2012 Republcan Party Convention - Tampa

Fri Aug 24, 2012 1:56 pm

Quoting LTBEWR (Reply 3):
Apparently Ann Romney's speech time at the convention has been shifted from what would have a the non-broadcast stations covered Monday night, to the covered Tuesday night, when NJ Gov. Christie will give the keynote speaker. Many pushed for this as it will help show Mitt's better side.

Never mind the fact that the major networks don't intend to provide much coverage of the GOP convention, not even the keynote address. But they are giving full prime-time coverage to the Democrat Party convention. We pretty much know what the Dem platform is - they've been in charge for 4 years. You would think that people might be more interested in what the opposition has to offer.

http://www.politico.com/blogs/media/...miss-ann-romney-speech-132806.html

Of course there is no media bias...
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casinterest
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RE: 2012 Republcan Party Convention - Tampa

Fri Aug 24, 2012 2:07 pm

Quoting Dreadnought (Reply 5):
Never mind the fact that the major networks don't intend to provide much coverage of the GOP convention, not even the keynote address. But they are giving full prime-time coverage to the Democrat Party convention. We pretty much know what the Dem platform is - they've been in charge for 4 years. You would think that people might be more interested in what the opposition has to offer.

http://www.politico.com/blogs/media/...miss-ann-romney-speech-132806.html

Of course there is no media bias...

Nope there isn't it's called Ratings. Fake news, CNN , and all the other cables will cover most of the converion.

The BIG networks, where real people are sick of the stupid bastards of politics, will have nice shows on.

The Big Networks are being consistant 3 hours of coverage of the Republican Convention, and 3 hours of the Democratic Convention. Fair and Balanced. For the rest of it, folks can tune into into the other networks.

Just because the GOP is bankrolling a 4 day convention to convince everyone that they haven't been taken over by the Tea Party and Social Conservative lunatics, doesn't mean everyone has to pay attention.
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cmf
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RE: 2012 Republcan Party Convention - Tampa

Fri Aug 24, 2012 2:43 pm

Quoting Dreadnought (Reply 5):
Never mind the fact that the major networks don't intend to provide much coverage of the GOP convention

Apart from streaming everything online and three hours of prime time broadcast.

Quoting Dreadnought (Reply 5):
But they are giving full prime-time coverage to the Democrat Party convention

Actually the same three hours and online streaming.
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Dreadnought
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RE: 2012 Republcan Party Convention - Tampa

Fri Aug 24, 2012 2:48 pm

Quoting casinterest (Reply 6):
The BIG networks, where real people are sick of the stupid bastards of politics, will have nice shows on.

Here is what they will be showing instead:

http://images.politico.com/global/2012/08/tvlistings.jpg

If you think any of these shows are a more valuable use of your time than listening to candidates for our nation's leadership and trying to understand what they want to do, I begin to understand your political leanings.
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casinterest
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RE: 2012 Republcan Party Convention - Tampa

Fri Aug 24, 2012 2:54 pm

Quoting Dreadnought (Reply 8):
If you think any of these shows are a more valuable use of your time than listening to candidates for our nation's leadership and trying to understand what they want to do, I begin to understand your political leanings.

I get my sources by reading the news and Reading their positions on websites . I don't need to spend wasted time watching the Politicians act magnanimous on stage. the crowds going gooey ooey and clapping at every breaking phrase.
I probably won't watch either convention. I'll just watch the highlights on you tube.

You on the other hand feel like something big will happen at this stage, and your political leanings incline you to hang onto every word and phrase. I hang onto actions and policies. Probably why the GOP has lost me, as it has become very much a big government waste land pandering to the Far Right and convincing their members that everyone but themselves is to blame for the mess we are in.
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Mir
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RE: 2012 Republcan Party Convention - Tampa

Fri Aug 24, 2012 3:12 pm

Quoting Dreadnought (Reply 8):
If you think any of these shows are a more valuable use of your time than listening to candidates for our nation's leadership and trying to understand what they want to do, I begin to understand your political leanings.

That's Monday. They're covering Tuesday, Wednesday and Thursday - three nights, same as the Democrats. Or are you suggesting that the Republicans should get more airtime than the Democrats by virtue of stretching their convention out an extra day?

-Mir
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cmf
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RE: 2012 Republcan Party Convention - Tampa

Fri Aug 24, 2012 3:16 pm

Quoting Dreadnought (Reply 8):
If you think any of these shows are a more valuable use of your time than listening to candidates for our nation's leadership and trying to understand what they want to do, I begin to understand your political leanings.

Why is there a need to listen through every moment of the parties propaganda events?

You talk about political leanings but if the GOP is about personal freedom why complain when it is exercised. Isn't forcing all tv channels to carry the same political event more along the lines of what typically is referred to here as communism...
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casinterest
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RE: 2012 Republcan Party Convention - Tampa

Fri Aug 24, 2012 3:24 pm

Quoting cmf (Reply 11):
You talk about political leanings but if the GOP is about personal freedom why complain when it is exercised. Isn't forcing all tv channels to carry the same political event more along the lines of what typically is referred to here as communism...

Remember, the GOP secret mantra, do as we say, not as we do.
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Dreadnought
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RE: 2012 Republcan Party Convention - Tampa

Fri Aug 24, 2012 3:49 pm

Quoting cmf (Reply 11):
Isn't forcing all tv channels to carry the same political event

Nobody is talking about forcing anyone. But you would think that the keynote speech (remember that's how Obama first became known nationally - Keynote speakers are carefully chosen to set the tone and message of the Party) and the presidential candidate's speech are ones that people would be most interested to hear. I really don't care about most of the other coverage.

Of course the Left hates Ann Romney - every time she speaks pulls more women over to the GOP it seems, which is why the "war on women" rhetoric from the left is reaching fever pitch. They just don't understand how women might not feel that the right to free abortions is the most critical issue in the country, I guess.
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Mir
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RE: 2012 Republcan Party Convention - Tampa

Fri Aug 24, 2012 3:56 pm

Quoting Dreadnought (Reply 13):
But you would think that the keynote speech (remember that's how Obama first became known nationally - Keynote speakers are carefully chosen to set the tone and message of the Party) and the presidential candidate's speech are ones that people would be most interested to hear.

And they will be televised on the networks.

Ann Romney is not the keynote speaker, Chris Christie is. And he's speaking on Tuesday.

-Mir

[Edited 2012-08-24 08:56:51]
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cmf
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RE: 2012 Republcan Party Convention - Tampa

Fri Aug 24, 2012 4:08 pm

Quoting casinterest (Reply 12):
Remember, the GOP secret mantra, do as we say, not as we do.

Don't forget never admitting they are wrong.

Talking about that.

Quoting Dreadnought (Reply 13):
Nobody is talking about forcing anyone. But you would think that the keynote speech (remember that's how Obama first became known nationally - Keynote speakers are carefully chosen to set the tone and message of the Party) and the presidential candidate's speech are ones that people would be most interested to hear. I really don't care about most of the other coverage.

Of course the Left hates Ann Romney - every time she speaks pulls more women over to the GOP it seems, which is why the "war on women" rhetoric from the left is reaching fever pitch. They just don't understand how women might not feel that the right to free abortions is the most critical issue in the country, I guess.

As MIR said, she isn't the keynote speaker. Is it time to start a list of factual errors?
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casinterest
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RE: 2012 Republcan Party Convention - Tampa

Fri Aug 24, 2012 4:08 pm

Quoting Mir (Reply 14):
And they will be televised on the networks.

Ann Romney is not the keynote speaker, Chris Christie is. And he's speaking on Tuesday.

-Mir

I have discovered lately that a few facts don't seem to get in the way of the far right's ridiculous claims on this board.
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Dreadnought
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RE: 2012 Republcan Party Convention - Tampa

Fri Aug 24, 2012 5:26 pm

Quoting Mir (Reply 14):
Ann Romney is not the keynote speaker, Chris Christie is.
Quoting cmf (Reply 15):
As MIR said, she isn't the keynote speaker. Is it time to start a list of factual errors?
Quoting casinterest (Reply 16):
I have discovered lately that a few facts don't seem to get in the way of the far right's ridiculous claims on this board.

Chicago Sun Times: "The Republican convention kicks off next Monday in Tampa and Ann Romney delivers the keynote address." http://blogs.suntimes.com/sweet/2012...nn_romney_to_keynote_first_ni.html

Yahoo.News: "Ann Romney had been scheduled to give the keynote speech at Monday's opening night of the Republican National Convention in Tampa. But the Romney campaign is reportedly thinking about moving her address to another night..." http://news.yahoo.com/blogs/ticket/n...y-convention-speech-185342569.html

Politico: " the opening night of the convention and the night that Ann Romney has been scheduled to deliver the keynote address." http://www.politico.com/blogs/media/...miss-ann-romney-speech-132806.html

I am waiting for apologies. I don't really know how there can be two keynote speeches, but there you go.
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casinterest
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RE: 2012 Republcan Party Convention - Tampa

Fri Aug 24, 2012 6:09 pm

Quoting Dreadnought (Reply 17):
I am waiting for apologies. I don't really know how there can be two keynote speeches, but there you go.

No Apologies from me. Chris Christie is giving the keynote for the GOP convention. Any Republican that doesn't know that, does not deserve an apology.
Maybe keynote for a night counts in Republican land, but since they have 4 nights, that is a lot more bluster and blubbery than I can stand.
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cmf
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RE: 2012 Republcan Party Convention - Tampa

Fri Aug 24, 2012 6:47 pm

Quoting Dreadnought (Reply 17):
I am waiting for apologies. I don't really know how there can be two keynote speeches, but there you go.

Official Monday schedule: http://www.gopconvention2012.com/new...elease-monday-convention-schedule/

Official Tuesday schedule: http://www.gopconvention2012.com/new...lease-tuesday-convention-schedule/

From the Tuesday schedule: "Tuesday’s schedule includes the keynote address by New Jersey Governor Chris Christie"

No mention of keynote on Monday's schedule.

Have no idea why some decide to add a second keynote, but I have suspicions.
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RE: 2012 Republcan Party Convention - Tampa

Fri Aug 24, 2012 7:12 pm

Quoting Dreadnought (Reply 13):
Of course the Left hates Ann Romney

Ann Romney and in this case Laura Bush has got none of the kind of treatment that Hillary Clinton or Michelle Obama has gotten from the Right.

[Edited 2012-08-24 12:13:13]
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Mir
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RE: 2012 Republcan Party Convention - Tampa

Sat Aug 25, 2012 12:02 am

Quoting Dreadnought (Reply 17):
I am waiting for apologies.

Christie is giving the keynote speech of the convention, according to the convention website. Ann Romney may be giving the keynote speech of Monday night, but that's not the same thing. So I stand by my comments.

Quoting Dreadnought (Reply 17):
I don't really know how there can be two keynote speeches, but there you go.

I would always think that the candidates speech is the real keynote speech, but I guess that's neither here nor there.

-Mir
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ltbewr
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RE: 2012 Republcan Party Convention - Tampa

Sat Aug 25, 2012 1:12 am

The above links for the convention agenda is a bit dated (as of the 20th), it shows Ann Romney speaking on Monday.

I don't think Ann Romney is any kind of 'co-keynote' speaker, but rather the alleged change to Tuesday night, perhaps shortly before the Keynote speaker Chris Christie speaks, is to get max exposure in prime time for Romney especially from his biggest fan, his spouse, who is also a somewhat traditional wife, religious, white, Midwestern USA born and bred, Western/Northern European ancestry and someone who is a fairly good speaker.

As to the weather in Tampa during Monday/Tuesday, one major concern is flooding, including high tides with coastal flooding as well as inland flooding from heavy rains.
 
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zippyjet
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RE: 2012 Republcan Party Convention - Tampa

Sat Aug 25, 2012 4:41 am

Quoting helvknight (Reply 4):


    

Just watching the audience is a hoot for the GOP convention. Usually the convention folk/delegates look like clean scrubbed folks you'd find at the horrors known as Amway conventions. Of course you'll see plenty of people donning Cowboy 10 gallon hats, plenty of country artists. They will be chatting up how them dang commie liberal Democrats are heathens and are the spawn of the devil...etc. As I say Yee Ha! Meanwhile the big money $$$ Northeast business elite will be behind the scenes at their snazzy golf games and country clubs while bending prostitutes of both sexes with a couple lady boy's and trannies in the mix pounding out their frustrations. And of course the big money lobbyists, big oil, Saudi Arabia and Chinese interests throwing some lavish spare no expense shindigs. Want to see minority groups? There will be plenty of wait staff, gardeners and other service workers at the beckon call of the Wall Street Country Club, Country Singer redneck, bible thump-er set. Hope Issac stays away and the convention is everything the GOP wants it to be. A good time is deserved by all both at the GOP and next week at the Democratic convention.
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seb146
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RE: 2012 Republcan Party Convention - Tampa

Sat Aug 25, 2012 4:44 pm

Quoting Dreadnought (Reply 13):
the Left hates Ann Romney

Exept that is not true.

Quoting Dreadnought (Reply 13):
every time she speaks pulls more women over to the GOP it seems, which is why the "war on women" rhetoric from the left is reaching fever pitch. They just don't understand how women might not feel that the right to free abortions is the most critical issue in the country

Whoo, boy... Where to start with this lie....

The "war on women" rhetoric does not start with Ann Romney. She has nothing to do with it. It starts with old ultra rich white guys making decisions on women's health care. The same ultra rich white guys who scream about how they don't want government making health care decisions. The sole issue to the right-wing is "free abortions" but, if anyone pays any attention to anything from Democrats, they will know one major issue is that birth control should be provided, either free or reduced cost based on income, to all women period. The war on women is about forcing the far right wing extremist views on the entire nation. Forcing everyone to be pro-fetus/anti-life. They love the fetus, hate the baby.

Now... about the convention:

From what I remember about every other convention, there has been a keynote speaker every night of the convention. Ann Romney will give the keynote for Monday and Chris Cristy will give the keynote for Tuesday. Careful what you get mad about in your own party on the right... they will kick you out and hang the title of shame (liberal socialist) around you for all eternity!
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krisyyz
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RE: 2012 Republcan Party Convention - Tampa

Sat Aug 25, 2012 9:37 pm

Quoting Mir (Reply 21):
Christie is giving the keynote speech of the convention, according to the convention website. Ann Romney may be giving the keynote speech of Monday night, but that's not the same thing. So I stand by my comments

I think Ann Romney has been moved to Tuesday night because the major US networks didn't give the GOP convention air time on Monday, and the organizers want Ann Romeny to be showcased. There was talk about having her introduce Mitt on Thursday night, but the party want's Marco Rubio to introduce Mitt in order to attract more Cuban-American votes to the GOP ticket.

I heard that some Canadians (US expats) will be at the GOP convention talking about what a great job our Conservative Prime Minister is doing. I bet they will skip the part about the social issues, I doubt the GOP wants to hear about the Conservative Party of Canada's stance on Same-sex marriage and the fact legalizing gay marriage in Canada has had no adverse affect on the population. I do find it kind of funny how the US right-wing media was constantly bashing the Canadian health care system during the Obama-care debate, while a small part of the criticism was legit, they conveniently left the Canada during the recent same-sex marriage debate.

KrisYYZ
 
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DarkSnowyNight
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RE: 2012 Republcan Party Convention - Tampa

Sat Aug 25, 2012 11:07 pm

Quoting 2707200X (Reply 20):

Ann Romney and in this case Laura Bush has got none of the kind of treatment that Hillary Clinton or Michelle Obama has gotten from the Right.

I think this is true. But we also have to take into account that Laura & Ann are also quite pleased to take on a much more back seat role here as well. Neither have the presence that Mrss Obama & Clinton, do. It's their choice & there really is no job description per se for the First Lady.

[Edited 2012-08-27 14:51:16 by srbmod]
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ltbewr
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RE: 2012 Republcan Party Convention - Tampa

Sun Aug 26, 2012 2:42 am

The first day, Monday, of the Convention has been effectively cancelled but for some technical opening procedures due to the expected affects of Issac. The revised schedule for the convention over the remaining 3 days will be announced probably tomorrow morning (Sunday) Here is a link to the announcement:
http://firstread.nbcnews.com/_news/2...ancel-first-day-of-convention?lite

This sets up a log jam of speakers on the remaining days, with some they wanted on prime time broadcast TV either out, compressed in time or along with some of the more visual activities probably held during the afternoons. This also hurts the various lobbying, fundraising and other side parties planned for Monday and later days.

There hasn't been a convention in Florida in 40 years but Now with Issac, we can understand why there haven't been any since then.
 
Mir
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RE: 2012 Republcan Party Convention - Tampa

Sun Aug 26, 2012 3:19 am

Quoting LTBEWR (Reply 34):

The first day, Monday, of the Convention has been effectively cancelled but for some technical opening procedures due to the expected affects of Isaac.

Can't wait for Pat Robertson and Michelle Bachmann to explain this one....

-Mir
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casinterest
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RE: 2012 Republcan Party Convention - Tampa

Mon Aug 27, 2012 12:22 pm

Quoting LTBEWR (Reply 34):
here hasn't been a convention in Florida in 40 years but Now with Issac, we can understand why there haven't been any since then.

The headache may get worse. As of now, Issac has it's path set on the area around New Orleans. If this settles in as the final track, then the RNC is going to lose even more coverage, as the Media Panic of NO on the 7th anniversary will set in. If the storm hits Tuesday Night/Wedensday Morning as expected, there will be a media fiasco.

Issac is not forecast to be nearly as strong as Katrina, however, Issac could pass closer to New Orleans than Katrina did. A lot of people forger that Katrina kept NO in the weaker Northwest quadrant while going ashore. NO would have been relatively ok if the levees had not failed. This paragraph is what the media will sieze upon.

The RNC may get upstaged by a Natural Disaster for at least 2 nights and possibly more.
If the worst case happens, the RNC may get upstaged even more by natural disaster coverage.
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rutley21
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RE: 2012 Republcan Party Convention - Tampa

Mon Aug 27, 2012 1:23 pm

I wish they would all just leave. It's making Tampa a Zoo. It's a pain to drive in Tampa with them here. Isaac I guess moved away from us. So I don't think they have to worry about that anymore.

Rob
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RE: 2012 Republcan Party Convention - Tampa

Mon Aug 27, 2012 6:52 pm

Quoting casinterest (Reply 38):
The headache may get worse. As of now, Issac has it's path set on the area around New Orleans. If this settles in as the final track, then the RNC is going to lose even more coverage, as the Media Panic of NO on the 7th anniversary will set in. If the storm hits Tuesday Night/Wedensday Morning as expected, there will be a media fiasco.

It's more than a headache, it's a migrane. It's going to bring up all those memories of Katrina, and how poorly the GWB Administration handled things, like GWB flying over in Air Force One, pretending to care.
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ltbewr
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RE: 2012 Republcan Party Convention - Tampa

Tue Aug 28, 2012 12:17 am

Louisiana Governor Jindal & Mississippi's are not attending the Convention due the expectation of Issac landing in their states.
Issac is expected to hit shore late Tuesday/early Wednesday and could be a huge distraction for the Convention as well as possibly toning it down so not to look like the are partying when people may be getting killed and maybe a Million in to be effected. Some news channels may do a split screen when Romney and other key speakers are on which will distract from getting their message getting out unfiltered.
 
TheCol
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RE: 2012 Republcan Party Convention - Tampa

Tue Aug 28, 2012 12:22 am

Quoting krisyyz (Reply 25):
I heard that some Canadians (US expats) will be at the GOP convention talking about what a great job our Conservative Prime Minister is doing.

It will be interesting to see how they spin that one without inadvertently giving credit to the Democrats.
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mdsh00
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RE: 2012 Republcan Party Convention - Tampa

Tue Aug 28, 2012 3:52 am

Quoting Dreadnought (Reply 13):
Of course the Left hates Ann Romney - every time she speaks pulls more women over to the GOP it seems, which is why the "war on women" rhetoric from the left is reaching fever pitch.

That's rich given how much professed Republican party members (elected and non-elected) have bashed Hillary Clinton and Michelle Obama (and their daughters) over the silliest things.
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stasisLAX
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RE: 2012 Republcan Party Convention - Tampa

Tue Aug 28, 2012 4:29 am

Well, there seems to be a perceived problem (and a lot of "hard" feelings) with certain state delegations (i.e. Nevada, Maine, Louisiana, Minnesota, and Oklahoma) that have a large number of delegates loyal to Texas Congressmen Ron Paul. The party convention planners purposely sat these state delegations in the "nose bleed" seats at the Tampa convention center - in an effort to not RUIN the television optics of a unified Republican Party - with a visible and LOUD group of pissed-off Paul delegates protesting the nomination of Mitt Romney as the party's standard-bearer. It's quite laughable, in my opinion, that the national Republican party pretends to like the mostly Libertarian-leaning Paul delegates - perhaps there's a "Free Speech" breakout room set up from them to keep them away from the press corps all together.   

Source: http://www.politico.com/news/stories/0812/80168.html

[Edited 2012-08-27 21:33:32]
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ltbewr
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RE: 2012 Republcan Party Convention - Tampa

Tue Aug 28, 2012 11:15 am

The Ron Paul-libertarians are a wild card the RNC want's to keep quiet as they are anti-war and their very public extrmeism on social spending and taxes will scare away some independent and mainstram voters the party needs to win.

The placing of them into the background is nothing new, Democrats did the same in the 1964 convention as to denying the seating of Black delegates from Mississippi who believed correctly they really represented the states voters due to finally have voting rights from change in laws, and should dominate the states delgates and not the 'official' and all white ones.

Today the convention will finnally get going with key speeches by NJ Governor Christie, Ann Romney and top party leaders.
 
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RE: 2012 Republcan Party Convention - Tampa

Tue Aug 28, 2012 11:39 am

Quoting LTBEWR (Reply 36):
Today the convention will finnally get going with key speeches by NJ Governor Christie, Ann Romney and top party leaders.

For all the interest leading up to the moment, I doubt I'll watch more than a few minutes of either party's convention. I certainly haven't blocked off any time. It's just too slow-paced, and way too many 'made for TV' moments. I'll read a few on-line descriptions of what went on, and if there are any particularly interesting moments, I'll watch some on-line video.
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RE: 2012 Republcan Party Convention - Tampa

Wed Aug 29, 2012 2:08 am

I am seeing the convention and I have listened to a lot of the speakers, few of them are handing praise to Mitt Romney other than he is a good business leader with little to add to that. The speakers are talking about their personal biography take shots and dings at Obama mostly and moving on.
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RE: 2012 Republcan Party Convention - Tampa

Wed Aug 29, 2012 6:53 am

Overall, it was interesting. The two things that stuck in my mind:

Paraphrasing Ann Romney: "Philanthropy is a privilege" When you have as much or more money than the Romneys do, you don't choose to be philanthropic, it's an obligation that comes with the wealth you've achieved. I understand the sentiment behind her statement, that they prefer to donate their time and money anonymously and not make a big show of it, but "privilege" was the wrong word to use, because privilege denotes choice. "Obligation" or "requirement" are better word choices. She came off as being a snob, suggesting that philanthropy is a choice when you have that much money. I'll say again, philanthropy is not a choice. It is required. It is an absolute obligation that comes with the privilege of having the money.

Secondly, I wish every republican in congress was a clone of Chris Christie. While I enjoyed his speech and appreciated his sentiments, there are some things he doesn't seem to understand. The big thing he seems not to understand is that the tea party has drawn a line in the sand as it relates to taxation and compromise and any republican in congress who crosses that line will get their throats slit politically. The Democrats are to be considered the enemy and any compromise, any reaching across the aisle for any reason whatsoever is strictly prohibited. Just watch what happens to republicans deemed to be "too moderate" or "too willing to compromise." You get primaried and you get snark mouthed little girls regurgitating lines like:
"I think you should spend more time with your grandkids Mr. Hatch, and allow this man to go to washington."
or
"You're not spending your money, you're spending MY MONEY!"
Thankfully, the candidate that snark mouthed little girl in Utah was supporting was quickly and handily defeated.

I will also admit, having watched Obama's nomination or should i say coronation four years ago, i was disappointed by this convention. Where was the state by state roll call building up to the clinching of the nomination? That should have been broadcast live on national television during prime time. Also, where was the dramatic buildup to the acceptance speech? Instead of spreading out the speeches, do what the Dems did in 2008, put them all on the same night, creating a sense of build, a sense of growing optimism, a sense that a new king was about to crowned before our very eyes. Instead we get dribs and drabs and probably a dull boring speech by Romney that won't inspire me to change parties.

Of course, part of my disappointment is with the networks, who should have dedicated three or four hours per night to gavel to gavel prime time live coverage. One hour per night just is not enough.
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RE: 2012 Republcan Party Convention - Tampa

Wed Aug 29, 2012 7:00 am

Quoting Dreadnought (Reply 31):

I shall repeat myself (although I am sure that once again you will not listen), social issues like abortion are not on the Tea Party's agenda. They are after limited government, fiscal responsibility, energy independence, and not a whole lot else.

Sorry, your personal thoughts, or how you'd wish that body would behave are very, very different from reality. I could spend a long time compiling a list to disprove that statement, but instead of doing that, you should simply look at the candidates who have won those endorsements. Pretty much any newcomer to the House in 2010. Pretty much anyone who lost the Senate elections- Angle, O'Donnell, Miller. They all rose as the 'tea party' candidates to challenge the 'establishment', and they were all big time whack jobs.

You are who you try to elect, repeatedly.

Bottom line is those who identify as the 'tea party' have fanned the flames of social issues like hasn't been done in quite some time. You might not like it, but its true. Look how far that kind of 'truce' took Mitch Daniels.

And for what it's worth, I don't think thats quite how the tea party started. You're right, it did start on primarily spending issues and the size of government, but I feel it was quickly hijacked by all the social conservatives looking for a new home, the hot new trend. And they've run with it.

Quoting NorthstarBoy (Reply 39):

Secondly, I wish every republican in congress was a clone of Chris Christie. While I enjoyed his speech and appreciated his sentiments, there are some things he doesn't seem to understand. The big thing he seems not to understand is that the tea party has drawn a line in the sand as it relates to taxation and compromise and any republican in congress who crosses that line will get their throats slit politically. The Democrats are to be considered the enemy and any compromise, any reaching across the aisle for any reason whatsoever is strictly prohibited. Just watch what happens to republicans deemed to be "too moderate" or "too willing to compromise." You get primaried and you get snark mouthed little girls regurgitating lines like:

Did you notice the discernible lulls in applause anytime he used the word 'bipartisanship', which he did several times. Telling.

[Edited 2012-08-29 00:06:48]
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RE: 2012 Republcan Party Convention - Tampa

Wed Aug 29, 2012 11:17 am

To me what the Republicans call bipartiship is actually extortion, that if Democrats don't go along with tax cuts even to the rich or make massive cuts in spending, then they will bash them without mercy in their next election. Apparently Christie's speech was weak when he used the term 'bipartisan' to that crowd, but the problem is that failing to work with the 'other' party and achieving reasonable compromises that don't destroy critical needs for the poor and middle class.
Christie riled up the crowd as intended but also to some was more about selling himself until well into the speech.

Ann Romney's speech apparently was very well done, using a lot of emotions, especially to women, and of trying to humanize Mitt. Her use of the term as to hers and Mitt's marriage as 'a real marriage' to me is a bash on any same-sex marriage, a popular theme at the Convention. Apparently she made her sons and others in the hall put out tears from parts of her speech.

I also noted that among the speakers last night but not on the 'network' coverage was Gov. Walker of Wisconsin, a hero to the Republicans for his draconian attacks on government workers and their unions (but for 1st Responders), which has hurt millions of 'middle class' voters.
 
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RE: 2012 Republcan Party Convention - Tampa

Wed Aug 29, 2012 11:26 am

A quick look at news sources shows Hurricane Issac is getting the headline, not the RNC.

Quoting NorthstarBoy (Reply 39):

Paraphrasing Ann Romney: "Philanthropy is a privilege" When you have as much or more money than the Romneys do, you don't choose to be philanthropic, it's an obligation that comes with the wealth you've achieved. I understand the sentiment behind her statement, that they prefer to donate their time and money anonymously and not make a big show of it, but "privilege" was the wrong word to use, because privilege denotes choice. "Obligation" or "requirement" are better word choices. She came off as being a snob, suggesting that philanthropy is a choice when you have that much money. I'll say again, philanthropy is not a choice. It is required. It is an absolute obligation that comes with the privilege of having the money.

Seems Romney's money is doing a lot of good for the Caymans Islands at least...

Quoting NorthstarBoy (Reply 39):
The big thing he seems not to understand is that the tea party has drawn a line in the sand as it relates to taxation and compromise and any republican in congress who crosses that line will get their throats slit politically.

Indeed, many of the GOP primaries have shown this to be true. If anything, it's showing that the Dems are so focused on keeping the WH that they are in grave danger of losing the Senate.

Quoting NorthstarBoy (Reply 39):
I will also admit, having watched Obama's nomination or should i say coronation four years ago, i was disappointed by this convention. Where was the state by state roll call building up to the clinching of the nomination?

No, no no no no. That'd give Ron Paul another few minutes of fame.

Big mistake by the GOP. The convention should be both the wedding for the new ticket and the funeral for the runners-up. Supporters of Paul, Gingrich, et al should have been able to get their faces and their banners on the tube one last time. The cameras should have found a supporter or two choked up or crying, and then gone back to the landslide of votes Romney is getting. That would help the ones who supported the runners up move through grief quickly and get onboard the Romney bandwagon. Instead we're going to have clumps of people at the edges of the Big Tent seething inside.

Like so many other things, the move makes Romney look classless and nervous if not paranoid.

I listened to a discussion about whether or not Romney's religion would be featured at the Convention.

One point was that there were so many other topics that they could not feature:
> His business career: Up comes Bain Capital and his elite tax status
> His political career: Governor of Massachusetts leads to his Etch-a-Sketch on health care
> His political plans: Ryan's Budget, and the end of Mdeicare as we know it, a losing issue

So what's left?

The GOP is looking for something to make the wazzock Romney seem human and likeable. They are hoping that a big dose of religion and family values can make that happen. The big risk is that it highlights his Mormanism.

God help them if there is a picture of Bishop Romney dressed up in some type of Mormon garb floating around the archives. Some person, in the shape of a corporation because corporations are people too, will be running some very hard to trace attack ads shortly after such a thing surfaces.

Really, IMHO, the GOP just needs to double down and take any hits associated with Romney's choice of religious sect and any hits associated with Ryan's budget. They need to make the campaign about family values and fiscal conservatism. I don't agree with the GOP's policies in these areas, but IMHO it's their strongest cards to play. However almost everything they've done to date has turned sour. Personally I hope the trend continues, but it'd be best for everyone if each candidate made their strongest pitch.
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RE: 2012 Republcan Party Convention - Tampa

Wed Aug 29, 2012 12:29 pm

Quoting NorthstarBoy (Reply 39):
I understand the sentiment behind her statement, that they prefer to donate their time and money anonymously

Aside from mentioning it at the RNC and on national television? So, anonymous(ish) donations and not revealing tax returns. Hmmm.   
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RE: 2012 Republcan Party Convention - Tampa

Wed Aug 29, 2012 1:09 pm

Quoting 2707200X (Reply 38):

I am seeing the convention and I have listened to a lot of the speakers, few of them are handing praise to Mitt Romney other than he is a good business leader with little to add to that.

"All Praise XXX, Praise his name", is something out of religions and the 2008 Democratic Party Convention. We don't need that sort of thing.

Quoting NorthstarBoy (Reply 39):
"Philanthropy is a privilege" When you have as much or more money than the Romneys do, you don't choose to be philanthropic, it's an obligation that comes with the wealth you've achieved. I understand the sentiment behind her statement, that they prefer to donate their time and money anonymously and not make a big show of it, but "privilege" was the wrong word to use, because privilege denotes choice.

No, it is not a requirement. It is a moral imperative, not an obligation.

Quoting NorthstarBoy (Reply 39):
The big thing he seems not to understand is that the tea party has drawn a line in the sand as it relates to taxation and compromise and any republican in congress who crosses that line will get their throats slit politically.

I think you will find that if the politician involved votes to increase taxes somewhere, but only in return for having put in place a concrete plan that will result in a (more or less) balanced budget and lower spending, the TP members will buy into it. What we object to is constantly raising taxes and not addressing the central issue - out of control spending.

Quoting LTBEWR (Reply 41):
To me what the Republicans call bipartiship is actually extortion, that if Democrats don't go along with tax cuts even to the rich or make massive cuts in spending, then they will bash them without mercy in their next election.

And the Democrats are better? The 4 years of the Obama presidency was marked by Dems essentially saying, "you do what we want, or we take our toys home." Harry Ried declared that he would not even try to get a budget, as if no other administration ever had to deal with a split house - I recall budget battles since I started following them in the late 70s and early 80s - they are ALWAYS contentious, but eventually both sides hammer out a compromise. Unless you are a democrat in the past few years, who don't want to compromise on anything.
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RE: 2012 Republcan Party Convention - Tampa

Wed Aug 29, 2012 3:43 pm

I heard some extended sound bites of Ann Romney's speech and she comes across as down-to-earth, honest and sincere, unlike her hubby who comes across as calculated, fake and out-of-touch.

Too bad for the GOP that she's not the candidate.
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bmacleod
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RE: 2012 Republcan Party Convention - Tampa

Wed Aug 29, 2012 4:40 pm

This convention reminds me of the 1992 convention.

In 1992 there was Pat Buchanan who like Ron Paul this year got a significant number of delegate votes.

You had hard-right views on abortion and marriage....the Pat Robertson speech.

And President George H W Bush who seemed out-of-touch with the struggling middle class and jobless. This year it's Mitt Romney...enough said....

I'm not saying Obama will crush Romney in November but there is a familiar pattern here....

[Edited 2012-08-29 09:42:00]
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Mir
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RE: 2012 Republcan Party Convention - Tampa

Wed Aug 29, 2012 5:34 pm

Quoting Dreadnought (Reply 44):
I think you will find that if the politician involved votes to increase taxes somewhere, but only in return for having put in place a concrete plan that will result in a (more or less) balanced budget and lower spending, the TP members will buy into it. What we object to is constantly raising taxes and not addressing the central issue - out of control spending.

Then why do we see people in the House recoiling at the idea of 5:1 or even 10:1 cuts-to-taxes ratios? The line is always "no tax increases at all, we need to cut spending".

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Dreadnought
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RE: 2012 Republcan Party Convention - Tampa

Wed Aug 29, 2012 6:09 pm

Quoting Mir (Reply 47):
Then why do we see people in the House recoiling at the idea of 5:1 or even 10:1 cuts-to-taxes ratios? The line is always "no tax increases at all, we need to cut spending".

Because we don't believe it. Politicians (on both sides) like to describe a reduction of the rate of increase as a cut. Let's say the current budget for a federal program called "Condoms for Kindergarteners" costs $1 million per year, and is planned to expand to $5 million per year next year. They decide to grow it only to $3 million, and claim $2 million as "spending cuts". They take us for idiots. Most of the cuts that were offered last year that you quote was of that type.

Let's put it very simply. We want to see federal spending drop to 18% of GDP or less (some will demand more cuts, but 18% will get most people). That has for many decades been the approximate ability of the Federal Government to consistently collect while not harming the economy. I would even approve of a constitutional amendment capping federal spending as a percent of GDP, except in certain tightly defined cases of national emergency.
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RE: 2012 Republcan Party Convention - Tampa

Wed Aug 29, 2012 8:24 pm

Quoting Dreadnought (Reply 48):
Politicians (on both sides) like to describe a reduction of the rate of increase as a cut.

Because it is. When you have services that stay the same, relative to an increasing population size, it absolutely is a reduction in spending, unless and only unless there is a proportional increase in spending. Until that happens, yes, it's a cut.

As you say, this is a definition that both sides already agree on, so I'm not seeing the need to split hairs here...

Quoting Dreadnought (Reply 48):
Let's say the current budget for a federal program called "Condoms for Kindergarteners"

Let's not reduce your point to a Strawman here.

Quoting Dreadnought (Reply 48):
We want to see federal spending drop to 18% of GDP or less (some will demand more cuts, but 18% will get most people).

I don't think 18% is really sustainable anymore. I'd love to see a lot of our defensive commitments around the world and locally handed off to other nations (particularly China), who've enjoyed these protections while often prospering at our expense. But I don't see us being able to take enough of a pride diet to make that happen. Couple that with the inevitability of a single payer healthcare system coming on line (it will happen, perhaps not for another decade or two, but there is no other long term option), as well as our dire need to overhaul this country's infrastructure in a number of levels, and it becomes apparent that 18% will not cut it. 25 - 30 and we can be back in the game. But if TP can't handle that, their ride to irrelevance will only hasten.
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