CXB77L
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F1 2012: Belgian Grand Prix

Sat Sep 01, 2012 1:47 pm

So, the mid season break is over and we're onto what is perhaps the most anticipated round of the season on the best track in the F1 calendar, Spa Francorchamps. A rather mixed qualifying result sees Button take pole, Kobayashi second (MadameConcorde would be happy) and Maldonado takes third. I can only hope that Maldonado doesn't bin it for a change and scores some valuable points for Williams. Webber will take a five place grid penalty for a gearbox change, and Vettel failed to make it into Q3.

Qualifying results:

Pos Driver Car Time Gap
1. Jenson Button McLaren-Mercedes 1m47.573s
2. Kamui Kobayashi Sauber-Ferrari 1m47.871s + 0.298s
3. Pastor Maldonado Williams-Renault 1m47.893s + 0.320s
4. Kimi Raikkonen Lotus-Renault 1m48.205s + 0.632s
5. Sergio Perez Sauber-Ferrari 1m48.219s + 0.646s
6. Fernando Alonso Ferrari 1m48.313s + 0.740s
7. Mark Webber Red Bull-Renault 1m48.392s + 0.819s***
8. Lewis Hamilton McLaren-Mercedes 1m48.394s + 0.821s
9. Romain Grosjean Lotus-Renault 1m48.538s + 0.965s
10. Paul di Resta Force India-Mercedes 1m48.890s + 1.317s
Q2 cut-off time: 1m48.993s Gap *
11. Sebastian Vettel Red Bull-Renault 1m49.722s + 0.472s
12. Nico Hulkenberg Force India-Mercedes 1m49.362s + 0.112s
13. Michael Schumacher Mercedes 1m49.742s + 0.492s
14. Felipe Massa Ferrari 1m49.588s + 0.338s
15. Jean-Eric Vergne Toro Rosso-Ferrari 1m49.763s + 0.513s
16. Daniel Ricciardo Toro Rosso-Ferrari 1m49.572s + 0.322s
17. Bruno Senna Williams-Renault 1m49.958s + 0.708s
Q1 cut-off time: 1m50.126s Gap **
18. Nico Rosberg Mercedes 1m50.181s + 1.188s***
19. Heikki Kovalainen Caterham-Renault 1m51.739s + 2.746s
20. Vitaly Petrov Caterham-Renault 1m51.967s + 2.974s
21. Timo Glock Marussia-Cosworth 1m52.336s + 3.343s
22. Pedro de la Rosa HRT-Cosworth 1m53.030s + 4.037s
23. Charles Pic Marussia-Cosworth 1m53.493s + 4.500s
24. Narain Karthikeyan HRT-Cosworth 1m54.989s + 5.996s

I can't wait for the race!
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Aesma
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RE: F1 2012: Belgian Grand Prix

Sat Sep 01, 2012 4:00 pm

Great showing by Button, I hope he'll win, with the two Lotus to complete the podium, or maybe a Lotus and Koba.
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Bartonsayswhat
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RE: F1 2012: Belgian Grand Prix

Sun Sep 02, 2012 12:55 am

Great job by Button, find it hard to believe this is his first McLaren pole, hopefully he drives as quick tomorrow.

Also Maldonado was pegged with a 3 Place grid penalty for blocking Hulkenberg in Q1, moving Raikkonen up to P3.
 
AF1624
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RE: F1 2012: Belgian Grand Prix

Sun Sep 02, 2012 8:39 am

My bet is Kobayashi and Maldonado are gonna crash in the first few laps because they're both crazy hotheads.

Kimi 2nd if no problem with the cars - he LOVES spa.
Cheers
 
ltbewr
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RE: F1 2012: Belgian Grand Prix

Sun Sep 02, 2012 12:17 pm

4-5 drivers/cars out on the first turn of the first lap in a spectacular crash including Kobayashi and Alonso ! Maldonand out too now. Button is in the lead.
 
MIAspotter
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RE: F1 2012: Belgian Grand Prix

Sun Sep 02, 2012 12:17 pm

WTF just happenned?

Did Maldonado jumped the start?

And Grosjean WTF? took Hamilton, Alonso, Perez, and almost Koby out.

Well Alonso is out, interest in the race for me now stands at 20%.

And... Maldonado is out (not surprising)

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MIAspotter
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RE: F1 2012: Belgian Grand Prix

Sun Sep 02, 2012 12:19 pm

Maldonado is being investigated for jumpstart, no point now since he´s out.

Hamilton was a ¨bit¨ pissed at Grosjean LOL, he does not want to talk to the press now.

Spectacular crash but fortunately all drivers are OK. PHEW!

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Aesma
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RE: F1 2012: Belgian Grand Prix

Sun Sep 02, 2012 12:23 pm

Spectacular crash indeed !

Quoting MIAspotter (Reply 5):
Well Alonso is out, interest in the race for me now stands at 20%.

I like Alonso but he had too much of a lead at the championship.
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Stealthz
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RE: F1 2012: Belgian Grand Prix

Sun Sep 02, 2012 12:29 pm

Quoting MIAspotter (Reply 6):
Hamilton was a ¨bit¨ pissed at Grosjean LOL, he does not want to talk to the press now.

He seems to have been a bit grumpy all weekend, has been tweeting things about aero packages etc to the point he has been told by Whitmash to delete tweets... things may not be that rosy at Mclaren
If your camera sends text messages, that could explain why your photos are rubbish!
 
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RE: F1 2012: Belgian Grand Prix

Sun Sep 02, 2012 12:30 pm

Quoting Aesma (Reply 7):
I like Alonso but he had too much of a lead at the championship.

Well, this will make things interesting, now I hope Button wins (pains me dearly to write this) or for Kimi to pull something out and make a surprise, and for the Red Bulls to have some more issues. This way Alonso can still have a lead 

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MIAspotter
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RE: F1 2012: Belgian Grand Prix

Sun Sep 02, 2012 12:33 pm

Quoting stealthz (Reply 8):
He seems to have been a bit grumpy all weekend, has been tweeting things about aero packages etc to the point he has been told by Whitmash to delete tweets... things may not be that rosy at Mclaren

Yeah they said in Spanish TV that Button had a new wing while Hamilton got stuck with the old one. he tweeted a picture of his telemetry which is kinda like coke giving away their recipe.

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ltbewr
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RE: F1 2012: Belgian Grand Prix

Sun Sep 02, 2012 1:40 pm

Podium: Button - Vettel - Raikkonen. Button had a massive lead at the end (12 seconds) The race was rather calm after that first lap. Alanso keeps his championship lead but it got a lot tighter. Spa is a great GP track, very fast, very challanging and it gave us a good race today. Next: Monza.
 
CXB77L
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RE: F1 2012: Belgian Grand Prix

Sun Sep 02, 2012 2:11 pm

Quoting MIAspotter (Reply 5):
Did Maldonado jumped the start?

He admitted to jump starting the race.

Unfortunately, yet another promising qualifying position has turned into nothing, and Williams leave Spa Francorchamps without a single point. The sooner Maldonado gets the boot, the better.

Quoting LTBEWR (Reply 11):
Podium: Button - Vettel - Raikkonen.

It was a terrific race by all three of them - Vettel coming from 10th to finish 2nd, and produce some very good manoeuvres around the outside of the Bus Stop chicane as well. I'm delighted to see that he turned around a bad day yesterday to finish second in the race, and is now second in the championship, just 24 points behind Alonso.

I hope Vettel can continue the charge through to the end of the year and win his third title in a row  
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RE: F1 2012: Belgian Grand Prix

Sun Sep 02, 2012 4:57 pm

Romain Grosjean has been given a 1 race ban for today´s incident at the start of the Belgian GP, he was also issued with a 50000€ fine.

Pastor Maldonado has also been given a 15 place penalty for jumpstarting the race and his accident with Timo Glock.

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larshjort
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RE: F1 2012: Belgian Grand Prix

Sun Sep 02, 2012 7:48 pm

Quoting MIAspotter (Reply 13):
Romain Grosjean has been given a 1 race ban for today´s incident at the start of the Belgian GP, he was also issued with a 50000€ fine.

Another Lotus driver will be able to participate in the next race, so Ltus will still have 2 cars running according to BMF1.dk

/Lars
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RE: F1 2012: Belgian Grand Prix

Sun Sep 02, 2012 8:26 pm

Quoting Larshjort (Reply 14):
Another Lotus driver will be able to participate in the next race, so Ltus will still have 2 cars running according to BMF1.dk

Probably their test driver Jerome d´Ambrosio, or their reserve driver who is... ermmm someone.

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scbriml
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RE: F1 2012: Belgian Grand Prix

Sun Sep 02, 2012 9:01 pm

Quoting CXB77L (Reply 12):
Vettel coming from 10th to finish 2nd,

A decent drive, but he was more than aided and abetted by Grosjean's antics at the start.

Quoting MIAspotter (Reply 13):
Romain Grosjean has been given a 1 race ban for today´s incident at the start of the Belgian GP, he was also issued with a 50000€ fine.

For once, I think the stewards have got it just about right, although IMHO a two-race ban wouldn't have been too harsh.

Maldonado takes a ten-place grid drop for Monza after being punished for two separate incidents (jump start and an accident with Glock).
Time flies like an arrow. Fruit flies like a banana!
 
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RE: F1 2012: Belgian Grand Prix

Sun Sep 02, 2012 9:12 pm

Quoting scbriml (Reply 16):
For once, I think the stewards have got it just about right, although IMHO a two-race ban wouldn't have been too harsh.

If I was a steward, I would order Grosjean and Maldonado to start from the pit lane for the rest of the season.

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EZEIZA
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RE: F1 2012: Belgian Grand Prix

Sun Sep 02, 2012 9:14 pm

Quoting scbriml (Reply 16):
For once, I think the stewards have got it just about right, although IMHO a two-race ban wouldn't have been too harsh.

Agreed!

I honestly did not see the race, but I did see the incident from every possible angle. Scary stuff, especially from Alonso's car!
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Bongodog1964
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RE: F1 2012: Belgian Grand Prix

Sun Sep 02, 2012 9:44 pm

Quoting MIAspotter (Reply 13):
Pastor Maldonado has also been given a 15 place penalty for jumpstarting the race and his accident with Timo Glock.

If he's as quick off the line as today, he might make all 15 places up before the first corner.

Loved the shot from the starters box, with Charlie Whiting shaking his head at the sheer blatancy of Maldonados start.
 
CXB77L
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RE: F1 2012: Belgian Grand Prix

Mon Sep 03, 2012 10:03 am

Quoting scbriml (Reply 16):
although IMHO a two-race ban wouldn't have been too harsh.

That's the penalty Schumacher should've got for deliberately driving into Villeneuve in Jerez 1997, but I digress ...

Grosjean didn't deliberately drive into Hamilton, but I hope that it sends a message to other drivers that aggressively cutting off another driver, particularly at the start line, is not ok. All it takes is for one driver not to yield to have a huge pile up.

Quoting MIAspotter (Reply 13):
Pastor Maldonado has also been given a 15 place penalty for jumpstarting the race and his accident with Timo Glock.

10 place, not 15. Not sure where you got 15 from ...

5 was for jump starting, and the other 5 was for causing an avoidable collision with Timo Glock.
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RE: F1 2012: Belgian Grand Prix

Mon Sep 03, 2012 10:57 am

Quoting EZEIZA (Reply 18):
I honestly did not see the race, but I did see the incident from every possible angle. Scary stuff, especially from Alonso's car!

I know, I think Alonso was still in shock after the crash (like WTF was that!) I would have shat on my pants if an F1 car just came flying by just millimeters from my head/hands :O

Quoting CXB77L (Reply 20):
10 place, not 15. Not sure where you got 15 from ...

5 was for jump starting, and the other 5 was for causing an avoidable collision with Timo Glock.

Took the info from a local newspaper, it was probably wrong at the time.

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Bongodog1964
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RE: F1 2012: Belgian Grand Prix

Mon Sep 03, 2012 11:37 am

Quoting CXB77L (Reply 20):
Grosjean didn't deliberately drive into Hamilton, but I hope that it sends a message to other drivers that aggressively cutting off another driver, particularly at the start line, is not ok. All it takes is for one driver not to yield to have a huge pile up.

It might not have been deliberate, but to tuck his rear wheel in between Hamiltons front and rear wheels, with Hamilton having no way of moving across was extremely reckless. Once his wheel was there one of them was going to go up in the air.
 
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scbriml
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RE: F1 2012: Belgian Grand Prix

Mon Sep 03, 2012 12:00 pm

Quoting CXB77L (Reply 20):
Grosjean didn't deliberately drive into Hamilton

I don't think anyone doubts that, but what was inexplicable (especially when viewed on board Hamilton's car) was the speed at which Grosjean moved across to his right. Within the confines of the start/finish straight at Spa, it was foolhardy at best. It was very lucky that nobody was seriously hurt in what became a very nasty accident.
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MadameConcorde
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RE: F1 2012: Belgian Grand Prix

Wed Sep 05, 2012 8:42 am

I don't know if this was posted before.

EADS and Airbus are official partners with the Caterham team.
This is really great for the Caterham team.
They now have a most powerful partner. They really got the best!

http://www.caterhamf1.com/partners/eads-airbus

Quote:
News
EADS joins as official partner

Added: Thu 30 Aug, 2012

Caterham F1 Team has confirmed that EADS, the global aerospace and defence groupcorporation, has joined the team as Official Partner, with its logos appearing on the CT01 2012 race cars and across the whole team from the Belgian Grand Prix.

Fantastic!

        
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mad99
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RE: F1 2012: Belgian Grand Prix

Wed Sep 05, 2012 10:37 am

Quoting scbriml (Reply 23):
the speed at which Grosjean moved across to his right

I watched the vid from Hamilton's car and to me Grosjean moved over quickly but then stopped before contact. His rear wheel was between Hamilton's and Hamilton had room to move right. Once contact was made between the cars, Ham was forced right and the shunt started.

To me Hamilton could have avoided it if he had moved to the right a bit. The shunt rightly blamed on Grosjean and i believe out of 12 starts he's had 7 first corner shunts!
 
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Aesma
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RE: F1 2012: Belgian Grand Prix

Wed Sep 05, 2012 11:57 am

Quoting MIAspotter (Reply 10):
Yeah they said in Spanish TV that Button had a new wing while Hamilton got stuck with the old one. he tweeted a picture of his telemetry which is kinda like coke giving away their recipe.

Button is "2nd driver" this season and ends up testing new stuff that often doesn't work. With no meaningful testing time Friday, it was a gamble to keep the new rear wing and it ended up working for Button. Still he has also merit, he clearly drove perfectly to take a pole, something he rarely does even when he has the best car.

Quoting CXB77L (Reply 20):
Grosjean didn't deliberately drive into Hamilton, but I hope that it sends a message to other drivers that aggressively cutting off another driver, particularly at the start line, is not ok. All it takes is for one driver not to yield to have a huge pile up.

I doubt it will have any such effect. Now we'll see if every driver causing a crash will get such a harsh penalty or if it was special for him.
New Technology is the name we give to stuff that doesn't work yet. Douglas Adams
 
CXB77L
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RE: F1 2012: Belgian Grand Prix

Wed Sep 05, 2012 12:43 pm

Quoting Aesma (Reply 26):
I doubt it will have any such effect. Now we'll see if every driver causing a crash will get such a harsh penalty or if it was special for him.

It has to be assessed on a case by case basis, though. Not every crash is alike, therefore not all drivers who cause accidents deserve a penalty. Some are no more than racing incidents and should not be penalised at all. I do think, however, that the start line "chop" is particularly dangerous, and I've stated as much in other forums when Schumacher started doing that over a decade ago. All it takes is for one driver to not yield and there'd be a pile up.

[Edited 2012-09-05 05:44:22]
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scbriml
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RE: F1 2012: Belgian Grand Prix

Wed Sep 05, 2012 1:02 pm

Quoting Aesma (Reply 26):
Now we'll see if every driver causing a crash will get such a harsh penalty or if it was special for him.

Clearly, the circumstances of a crash HAVE to be taken into account as well as the consequences. If a driver causes a crash late in a race and the only consequence is that he himself doesn't finish the race, then a ban would likely be harsh. A big crash of the type seen at Spa, which ends the race of three other drivers, is clearly in a different league. That, combined with Grosjean's record this season left the stewards little choice IMHO. As I said above, I don't think a two race ban would have been too harsh.
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Aesma
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RE: F1 2012: Belgian Grand Prix

Wed Sep 05, 2012 2:11 pm

Some drivers in the last few years have been warned to be careful, meaning they would get harsh punishments after that. Grosjean wasn't warned. As for the consequences, what about Maldonado ending Grosjean's Australian race ? He didn't get anything for that, and that was an aggressive move, not a stupid mistake.
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moo
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RE: F1 2012: Belgian Grand Prix

Wed Sep 05, 2012 2:35 pm

Quoting MIAspotter (Reply 10):
Yeah they said in Spanish TV that Button had a new wing while Hamilton got stuck with the old one.
Quoting Aesma (Reply 26):
Button is "2nd driver" this season and ends up testing new stuff that often doesn't work. With no meaningful testing time Friday, it was a gamble to keep the new rear wing and it ended up working for Button.

Autosport had an article on Friday or Saturday in which Hamilton was quoted as saying the decision to switch to the old wing was his - he was not liking the balance of the new wing, so he was given the option of doing some more running to set up the car rather than do practice times, or switch to the previous races wing and he chose to switch.

McLaren don't really have a second driver - they are letting Button and Hamilton sort it out themselves and actually race.
 
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scbriml
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RE: F1 2012: Belgian Grand Prix

Thu Sep 06, 2012 12:05 pm

Quoting Aesma (Reply 29):
Grosjean wasn't warned.

That you're aware?

Quoting Aesma (Reply 29):
As for the consequences, what about Maldonado ending Grosjean's Australian race ? He didn't get anything for that, and that was an aggressive move, not a stupid mistake.

Was that incident investigated by the race stewards? What was their conclusion? If neither driver was punished, then it was likely decided to be a "racing incident". In respect of Grosjean's Spa moment, his swerve across the track could certainly be seen as aggressive.

I too want consistency from the FIA and race stewards. All too often they aren't - changing the stewards from race to race doesn't help. In this specific case though, I think they've got it right. Grosjean's record of first lap incidents this season is awful and needed to be addressed.
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Stealthz
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RE: F1 2012: Belgian Grand Prix

Thu Sep 06, 2012 12:35 pm

Quoting Aesma (Reply 29):
Grosjean wasn't warned.


And you know this how?

Regardless of whether or not Grosjean had received an official warning.
If he or his management(team and personal) lack the intellect to realise his first lap behavior was in need of correction then none of them have a place in professional motorsport let alone Formula One
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RE: F1 2012: Belgian Grand Prix

Fri Sep 07, 2012 1:30 am

Quoting mad99 (Reply 25):
The shunt rightly blamed on Grosjean and i believe out of 12 starts he's had 7 first corner shunts!

I think Grosjean is a good driver, but he's got this one big problem: he cannot handle race starts properly. There is something weird about it. It's like he doesn't know what to do for a few seconds, in panic.

He really really need to get this straight or he won't last long. Shame, if you ask me, because he has the potential to be a GP winner.
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mad99
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RE: F1 2012: Belgian Grand Prix

Fri Sep 07, 2012 6:31 am

Quoting GrahamHill (Reply 33):
I think Grosjean is a good driver

He's quick no doubt.
I haven't been able to watch all the gp's so far this year so i had a look on youtube to see some of he's starts. People who upload vids of computer games should be shot!
 
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Francoflier
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RE: F1 2012: Belgian Grand Prix

Fri Sep 07, 2012 8:26 am

Quoting GrahamHill (Reply 33):
He really really need to get this straight or he won't last long.

He reminds me a bit of Vettel when kept crashing into everybody who stood in his way at first. Although I don't think he is as talented as Vettel.

Having an ego bigger than the helmet it's in is part of the requirement to be a F1 racer. Experience eventually tames it a bit, but it takes a while and a few mistakes. Still, that was a close call.
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