detroitflyer
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Canada Shuts Down Iran Embassy Boots Diplomats

Sat Sep 08, 2012 3:39 am

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-us-canada-19522744
This seems sudden, almost out of no where. Surprised this was not reported on more widely? Will this mean that Canada will have absolutely no diplomatic relations with them? First the UK closes now Canada, pressure from the US maybe
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WrenchBender
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RE: Canada Shuts Down Iran Embassy Boots Diplomats

Sat Sep 08, 2012 4:32 am

Probably more to do with this http://www.ottawacitizen.com/news/Iranian embassy recruiting expats/6908143/story.html than anything else. But a long list of ongoing greivences
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WestJet747
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RE: Canada Shuts Down Iran Embassy Boots Diplomats

Sat Sep 08, 2012 7:55 pm

Quoting detroitflyer (Thread starter):
This seems sudden, almost out of no where.

I beg to differ. Canada and Iran have had an increasingly rocky relationship for the past 10 years (escalating heavily with the Zarah Kazemi fiasco). As Iran makes no effort to stop pissing off the rest of the world, this was inevitable.

Quoting detroitflyer (Thread starter):
Canada will have absolutely no diplomatic relations with them?

Correct.

Quoting detroitflyer (Thread starter):
pressure from the US maybe

It's possible, but I'm without doubt that the decision was made on our own accord. Canada obviously stands by the US in their concern over Iran's nuclear program and blatant disregard for human rights, but this decision was not to appease them.
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BO__einG
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RE: Canada Shuts Down Iran Embassy Boots Diplomats

Mon Sep 10, 2012 5:45 am

My view: Very good choice on taking a stance on such an evil regime, I support it 100%

Reality, it probably means nothing to them as we have no diplomatic relationships period! Sure PR wise they say it was racist and unprofessional and yah there are risks for making such a move, maybe we've now become an official enemy to that regime.
The closest of diplomacy was dual citizen travel and bank assets. We can barely be able to ensure safety to some of the dual citizens who travel back and forth without being kidnapped and charged for spying.
Part of this sensationalism is the media trying to make up this situation more than it really is by doing debates with all these experts and panels and to put words in their mouths trying to suggest that we could be in big trouble, or we will support military action so therefore the media need to chill out. They are nosing in on matters which are not of their business or right to know and has to adhere to a fine line in journalism or else may as well bring back censorship.

Iran allies might not be impressed with Canada's recent stance as well and there could be some consequences there, but it had to be done. We did it to Syria recently and of course the DPRK, there was no embassy in the first place.
It just reinforces to the world that these countries are the punks on the block and everybody else should beware of them.
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cmf
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RE: Canada Shuts Down Iran Embassy Boots Diplomats

Mon Sep 10, 2012 2:18 pm

Quoting BO__einG (Reply 3):
My view: Very good choice on taking a stance on such an evil regime, I support it 100%

It is a stupid move. The worse the relation the more important to have communication channels. There are many ways to show displeasure but closing a communication channel when there are problems is always a bad move.
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aloges
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RE: Canada Shuts Down Iran Embassy Boots Diplomats

Mon Sep 10, 2012 2:45 pm

Quoting detroitflyer (Thread starter):
Will this mean that Canada will have absolutely no diplomatic relations with them?
Quoting WestJet747 (Reply 2):
Correct.

You don't have to have an embassy or consulate to have diplomatic relations. "Interest sections" have a long history: http://www.eda.admin.ch/eda/en/home/reps/asia/virn/fosteh.html and something similar may be set up in Ottawa and Tehran, respectively.
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WestJet747
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RE: Canada Shuts Down Iran Embassy Boots Diplomats

Mon Sep 10, 2012 8:58 pm

Quoting cmf (Reply 4):
It is a stupid move. The worse the relation the more important to have communication channels. There are many ways to show displeasure but closing a communication channel when there are problems is always a bad move.

John Baird mentioned the diplomats' safety as a main concern. If it is felt that Canadians serving in Iran are in danger, then there is nothing stupid about removing them.

Quoting aloges (Reply 5):
You don't have to have an embassy or consulate to have diplomatic relations. "Interest sections" have a long history

Interest sections do not promote diplomatic relations, they serve only to accommodate citizens from countries who do not have any degree of relations with said country. It's essentially a consulate through a third-party, but there are still no diplomatic relations.
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777way
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RE: Canada Shuts Down Iran Embassy Boots Diplomats

Mon Sep 10, 2012 9:34 pm

Quoting WestJet747 (Reply 2):
As Iran makes no effort to stop pissing off the rest of the world

Correction Israel, USA, Britian and a few other Euro states plus maybe Australia, New Zealand, all said basically the western white world, no one else cares.
 
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RE: Canada Shuts Down Iran Embassy Boots Diplomats

Mon Sep 10, 2012 11:24 pm

Quoting 777way (Reply 7):
Correction Israel, USA, Britian and a few other Euro states plus maybe Australia, New Zealand, all said basically the western white world, no one else cares.

Saudi Arabia and their "cut the head off the snake" memo wave hello.
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777way
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RE: Canada Shuts Down Iran Embassy Boots Diplomats

Mon Sep 10, 2012 11:38 pm

Really Saudi I'm not surprised Arab/Persian historic complex/poewer struggle issues, infasct I really do not respect Gulf Arab states due to this attitude of theirs, India has to please some despite their growing might you can guess who, but then again their PM went to the NAM summit in Tehran with a 744 load entourage and an A321 in tow with media, a second 744 was to go along but didnt due to crew shortage according a poster in civil av, so again diplomacy being played out at its best.

Any case they are not rest of the world, or does rest of the world only means a handful of high profile nations while others are insignificant?
 
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RE: Canada Shuts Down Iran Embassy Boots Diplomats

Mon Sep 10, 2012 11:55 pm

Well which is it..."rest of the world"

Quoting 777way (Reply 9):
Any case they are not rest of the world, or does rest of the world only means a handful of high profile nations while others are insignificant?

or...

Quoting 777way (Reply 7):
no one else cares.

Do please make up your mind.
 
777way
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RE: Canada Shuts Down Iran Embassy Boots Diplomats

Tue Sep 11, 2012 12:10 am

Mind made up no confusion, that way you can also add Russia, China, Japan, Korea, Taiwan maybe Pakistan, Iraq and Afghanistan too, but really do they care deep down?
 
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RE: Canada Shuts Down Iran Embassy Boots Diplomats

Tue Sep 11, 2012 1:39 pm

Quoting WestJet747 (Reply 6):
John Baird mentioned the diplomats' safety as a main concern. If it is felt that Canadians serving in Iran are in danger, then there is nothing stupid about removing them.

Perfectly fine to remove them for safety but that doesn't mean you must shut down the embassy.
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WestJet747
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RE: Canada Shuts Down Iran Embassy Boots Diplomats

Tue Sep 11, 2012 2:05 pm

Quoting 777way (Reply 7):
basically the western white world

There are countries in Africa that have cut diplomatic ties with Iran as well. Let's not turn this into a race thing.

Quoting cmf (Reply 12):
Perfectly fine to remove them for safety but that doesn't mean you must shut down the embassy.

As a Canadian taxpayer, I don't want to be paying to run an empty embassy in a country that we have no desire to have ties with. If the government then determines that Iran has become a less dangerous place for Canadians, then I fully support re-opening the embassy.
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BO__einG
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RE: Canada Shuts Down Iran Embassy Boots Diplomats

Wed Sep 12, 2012 3:04 am

^ Amen to that. I only stand on such a position because of their current behavior on the world stage by the Iranian regime.
If they smarten up and start making positive improvements to the global community including Canada, (yes communication too) then I would take it back and reopen the embassy there.

However all bets is that is not going to happen, and really they couldn't care less and so do we. That regime is no better than that of Syria and North Korea, some of the most isolated countries in the world. Why should we waste additional resources trying to befriend and dialogue with one that will simply not listen or comply or even assist us when some of our own citizens are trapped and sentenced in their courts. An embassy or consulate office would assist in these matters but the persian red tape prevented this despite efforts made there and even all the way from Ottawa.

Here are some news articles posted by FARS accounting their take on the matter.
You can make your own conclusions to see which side you support.

http://english.farsnews.com/newstext.php?nn=9106062578
http://english.farsnews.com/newstext.php?nn=9106062960
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thegreatRDU
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RE: Canada Shuts Down Iran Embassy Boots Diplomats

Wed Sep 12, 2012 2:12 pm

Ah Canada, the trusty sidekick.....
Who cares?? I mean look at all the videos on youtube of Stephen Harper wearing a Yamaka.

Besides I think we all know who's truly behind this...
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WestJet747
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RE: Canada Shuts Down Iran Embassy Boots Diplomats

Wed Sep 12, 2012 2:30 pm

Quoting thegreatRDU (Reply 15):
I mean look at all the videos on youtube of Stephen Harper wearing a Yamaka.

I don't know what you're implying, but if you Google it you will find pictures of several of your Presidents wearing kippahs.

Plus, it's just common respect to don a kippah when entering a synagogue or temple.

Quoting thegreatRDU (Reply 15):
Besides I think we all know who's truly behind this...

Gary Bettman?!
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thegreatRDU
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RE: Canada Shuts Down Iran Embassy Boots Diplomats

Wed Sep 12, 2012 2:34 pm

Quoting WestJet747 (Reply 16):
I don't know what you're implying, but if you Google it you will find pictures of several of your Presidents wearing kippahs.

That's precisely my point

I urge Canada to truly have an independent foreign policy one that serves Canada's interests...not to be sidekicks
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slider
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RE: Canada Shuts Down Iran Embassy Boots Diplomats

Wed Sep 12, 2012 2:57 pm

Quoting cmf (Reply 4):
It is a stupid move. The worse the relation the more important to have communication channels. There are many ways to show displeasure but closing a communication channel when there are problems is always a bad move.

There is no point in trying to communicate or negotiate with people who are, well, in a word--crazy.
 
LMP737
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RE: Canada Shuts Down Iran Embassy Boots Diplomats

Wed Sep 12, 2012 4:54 pm

Quoting thegreatRDU (Reply 17):
I urge Canada to truly have an independent foreign policy one that serves Canada's interests...not to be sidekicks

I believe they already do.

Quoting thegreatRDU (Reply 15):
Besides I think we all know who's truly behind this...

No we don't. Why don't you fill us in on the secret.
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777way
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RE: Canada Shuts Down Iran Embassy Boots Diplomats

Wed Sep 12, 2012 6:38 pm

Quite obviously US and Israe coaxingl, they wont say it openly nor will Canada admit it.
 
WestJet747
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RE: Canada Shuts Down Iran Embassy Boots Diplomats

Wed Sep 12, 2012 6:48 pm

Quoting thegreatRDU (Reply 17):
I urge Canada to truly have an independent foreign policy one that serves Canada's interests

Canada, as the most multicultural country in the world, has as much an independent foreign policy as anyone. We only seem to do as the US does because they are our strongest trading partner. But Canada doesn't do everything the US does as you so imply.

Quoting 777way (Reply 20):
Quite obviously US and Israe coaxingl, they wont say it openly nor will Canada admit it.

Canada is pro-Israel, and maintains a positive relationship with Israel, but Israel certainly does not have the same pull in Canada as they do in the US, I can guarantee that.
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cmf
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RE: Canada Shuts Down Iran Embassy Boots Diplomats

Thu Sep 13, 2012 8:04 pm

Quoting slider (Reply 18):
There is no point in trying to communicate or negotiate with people who are, well, in a word--crazy

If you want to keep the problems around forever there isn't. If you want to find a solution there is no other way.
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thegreatRDU
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RE: Canada Shuts Down Iran Embassy Boots Diplomats

Fri Sep 14, 2012 11:43 am

Quoting 777way (Reply 20):
Quite obviously US and Israe coaxingl, they wont say it openly nor will Canada admit it.

Thank you! Someone gets it

Quoting LMP737 (Reply 19):

No we don't. Why don't you fill us in on the secret.

No
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PanHAM
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RE: Canada Shuts Down Iran Embassy Boots Diplomats

Fri Sep 14, 2012 1:11 pm

Quoting 777way (Reply 7):
Correction Israel, USA, Britian and a few other Euro states plus maybe Australia, New Zealand, all said basically the western white world, no one else cares.

wrong, Pakistani firms comply with UN sanctions, at least when they have business interest with the so called "white world", better the democratic part of the world.

Except Dr.. Khan and the likes who supported the nuclear program of Iran.
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LMP737
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RE: Canada Shuts Down Iran Embassy Boots Diplomats

Fri Sep 14, 2012 3:28 pm

Quoting thegreatRDU (Reply 23):
No


No? That's not really an answer, more like deflection.
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WestJet747
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RE: Canada Shuts Down Iran Embassy Boots Diplomats

Fri Sep 14, 2012 6:45 pm

Quoting cmf (Reply 22):
If you want to keep the problems around forever there isn't. If you want to find a solution there is no other way.

That's a fair point. But given the context of this thread, the cost of continuing the communication was too great. Of course it will be re-evaluated down the road though.

Quoting thegreatRDU (Reply 23):
No

Well that gives your argument heaps of credibility  
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DeltaMD90
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RE: Canada Shuts Down Iran Embassy Boots Diplomats

Fri Sep 14, 2012 11:51 pm

I'm sure the US put some pressure on Canada, but would they really have the power to coerce Canada into doing this like some here are posting? I know the US may (IMO) overreact to some of the stuff Iran does and lead many of the sanctions against them, but a lot of countries are pissed off at Iran. Saying the US is solely behind this is an insult to Canada I would think
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777way
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RE: Canada Shuts Down Iran Embassy Boots Diplomats

Sat Sep 15, 2012 1:56 am

Quoting PanHAM (Reply 24):

Pissing of the world is what he said to which I answered, Pakistan like other nations has to be diplomatic therefore the UN thingy, but its not pissed at Iran contrary to what anyone tries to suggest, again to clarify the world is not made up of a select few countries.
 
PanHAM
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RE: Canada Shuts Down Iran Embassy Boots Diplomats

Sat Sep 15, 2012 7:51 am

Quoting 777way (Reply 28):
again to clarify the world is not made up of a select few countries.

No, but the world would be a much better place if individual basic human rights are accepted as the standard in every country.

Looking TV these days watching illiterate hordes burning and killing I can tell you, it was better in this part of the world pre 1980.
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777way
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RE: Canada Shuts Down Iran Embassy Boots Diplomats

Sat Sep 15, 2012 7:48 pm

I agree with you completely on this, those were the days, the restrictions and worries related simply to travelling nowadays have become too much.
 
thegreatRDU
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RE: Canada Shuts Down Iran Embassy Boots Diplomats

Wed Sep 26, 2012 3:24 am

Forgot about this post...

Quoting WestJet747 (Reply 21):
But Canada doesn't do everything the US does as you so imply.

I didn't say that
but c'mon getting out of Iran on human rights grounds?

Harper and Baird are stooges
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TheCol
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RE: Canada Shuts Down Iran Embassy Boots Diplomats

Wed Sep 26, 2012 5:37 am

Quoting thegreatRDU (Reply 31):
I didn't say that but c'mon getting out of Iran on human rights grounds?

You obviously ignored the laundry list of reasons why the Canadian embassy was closed.

Quoting thegreatRDU (Reply 31):
Harper and Baird are stooges

I'm a taxpayer, and I don't take kindly to paying a bunch of rich diplomats to sit on their hands all day in Iran. The same goes for paying to upkeep a property so it can be used as a shooting gallery for the revolutionary guard. The resources of the Canadian Diplomatic Corps are stretched too thin as it is, and the personnel and money can be better utilized elsewhere. As for the Canadian citizens in Iran, as unfortunate as it is, closing the embassy simply doesn't change anything for them.
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mariner
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RE: Canada Shuts Down Iran Embassy Boots Diplomats

Wed Sep 26, 2012 6:05 am

Quoting thegreatRDU (Reply 17):
I urge Canada to truly have an independent foreign policy one that serves Canada's interests...not to be sidekicks

Cuba?

mariner
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WestJet747
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RE: Canada Shuts Down Iran Embassy Boots Diplomats

Wed Sep 26, 2012 1:50 pm

Quoting thegreatRDU (Reply 31):
but c'mon getting out of Iran on human rights grounds?

You didn't read the brief did you?

Quoting thegreatRDU (Reply 31):
Harper and Baird are stooges

Compared to who? Most politicians are stooges, so you aren't saying much.

Quoting TheCol (Reply 32):
I'm a taxpayer, and I don't take kindly to paying a bunch of rich diplomats to sit on their hands all day in Iran. The same goes for paying to upkeep a property so it can be used as a shooting gallery for the revolutionary guard. The resources of the Canadian Diplomatic Corps are stretched too thin as it is, and the personnel and money can be better utilized elsewhere. As for the Canadian citizens in Iran, as unfortunate as it is, closing the embassy simply doesn't change anything for them.

Exactly! Thank you for echoing my sentiment.
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czbbflier
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RE: Canada Shuts Down Iran Embassy Boots Diplomats

Fri Sep 28, 2012 5:33 am

A couple of minor points here...

It seems the debate is being formulated around Canada following some sort of pressure of the United States and its newfound alignment with Israel. One can never discount the pressure from Washington however, it seems to me there's more here than meets the eye.

The last time the Canadian embassy was (abruptly) closed in Tehran, there were six American diplomats carrying Canadian passports in the exodus.

Just floating a balloon here but it seems to me that Canada's foreign policy is less in lock-step with Washington as it has been in the past. I could very well be wrong on that point but right now its foreign policy seems more preoccupied with economic concerns than political ones.

Canada is not wearing the mantle of 'global economic safe haven' lightly. Prime minister Harper and finance minister Flaherty are sounding focused and bullish on their own perceived influence over the decision-making of less financially sound countries' governments.

Oddly (and speaking directly to the Iranian government's complete lack of a grasp on reality), reading the Wiki article on Iranian / Canadian relations, you will find that the Iranian government's embassy's view of its forced closure stems from Canada being a racist stooge of the United Kingdom and the fact that we "share" the same monarch.

Given the horrendous state of relations between the UK and Iran as well as Canada's historic ties with the UK, the Iranian government's stated belief that Canada and the UK are bedfellows, might it not be possible that the UK embassy was attacked and our Intel was indicating that Canada's was next? (Might we have been actually harbouring British spies? Who knows...)

So either more of this will eventually come out in the news or else it was simply a closure and severing of ties for the reasons Baird stated.

I am no fan of the current government but given Canada's own historically testy relations with Iran since 1980, I'd say this decision was made primarily in Ottawa irrespective of any pressure coming from our allies, British or American.

Quoting WestJet747 (Reply 21):
Canada is pro-Israel, and maintains a positive relationship with Israel, but Israel certainly does not have the same pull in Canada as they do in the US, I can guarantee that.

As for the realignment toward Israel, I must disagree with my fellow Canuck. Historically, regarding Canadian-Israeli relations, I'd say Westjet747 is correct.

However, in recent years, this government has made it very clear that Israel is the one to back in the region and has even taken the lead on supporting Israel when the Obama administration has been cool. It is true that we may not have as ardent and vocal a pro-Israel community here in Canada as there is in the United States, it is a community the Tories are working hard to garner support.
 
slider
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RE: Canada Shuts Down Iran Embassy Boots Diplomats

Fri Sep 28, 2012 3:08 pm

Quoting cmf (Reply 22):
If you want to find a solution there is no other way.

Sure there is. Eliminate them.

Do me a favor--swap out the name Ahmadinejad for any dictator or ruthless despot in history and re-read the statement. There's no negotiating with terrorists and crazy people. In a nutshell, there are other ways--sadly, it's the last option and should be, but negotiation implies two parties that come to the table with common ground. There is NO common ground with them.
 
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DeltaMD90
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RE: Canada Shuts Down Iran Embassy Boots Diplomats

Fri Sep 28, 2012 5:47 pm

Quoting slider (Reply 36):
Sure there is. Eliminate them.

Do me a favor--swap out the name Ahmadinejad for any dictator or ruthless despot in history and re-read the statement.

Ok... swapping Ahmadinehad with Saddam Hussein...

...yikes that didn't turn out so well!  Wow!
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