Ken777
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Birthers Arise In Kansas

Sat Sep 15, 2012 2:24 am

I grew up thinking that Kansas was one of those "normal" states where nothing really happened there outside of college sports. It was one of those states that didn't have gays or lesbians. Just a quiet, stable state. Someplace where you were comfortable having 747s converted for special use as Air Force One.

But, to my amazement, Kansas has joined the really queer states - this time with Birthers, of all things.

Quote:

Birther alert: Kansas is considering tossing President Obama from the November ballot because it’s not sure that he’s a citizen. A citizen from Manhattan (Kansas) named Joe Montgomery filed a complaint to that effect, so the State Objections Board, controlled by Republicans, is duly looking into it. “I don’t think it’s a frivolous objection,” said the Kansas Secretary of State, Kris Kobach.

"Surely not", I thought. But then it gets worse:

Quote:

Mr. Kobach is the man who wrote several states’ show-me-your-papers immigration laws. Now he wants to see the president’s papers. The board has asked the authorities in Honolulu, Arizona and Mississippi for documentation to help settle the question of whether Mr. Obama is a “natural born” citizen, since his father was Kenyan and, in the view of some conspiracy theorists, the Constitution’s definition of “natural born” means having two citizen parents. They’re wrong about that, but it hasn’t stopped them.

I found it hard to believe that Kansas could actually be that backward. I thought maybe it was the heat wave this summer, diminishing wheat crops and common sense in the state. But then I read:

Quote:

“I do think the factual record could be supplemented,” said Mr. Kobach, who is also an informal adviser to Mitt Romney.

OK. That explains it. Romney keeps screwing these things up. He's working to keep Obama off the ballot in Kansas. Kansas is in Romney's pocket. They have never voted for a Black Man for President and probably never will. Romney should have picked a state that might go Obama.

Florida!

They have a wing nut as a Governor and has been working hard to have people removed from the rolls of eligible voters. With that kind of mentality Florida seems a natural for Birthers getting Obama off the ballot and actually making a difference if they are successful.

Link: http://takingnote.blogs.nytimes.com/2012/09/14/kansas-birthers/
 
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DocLightning
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RE: Birthers Arise In Kansas

Sat Sep 15, 2012 2:46 am

I find it interesting that for all the noise we hear from the Right about how the Democrats are trying to keep dead people on the ballot lists and commit voter fraud, it is the Right who is working hard to actually tamper with the democratic process.

The President has supplied both short and long forms of his COLB. His mother was an American citizen at the time of his birth. He was born in Hawai'i.

The best thing that the Obama campaign can do at this point is pin this one squarely on the Romney campaign. Use it to demonstrate that Romney actually hates democracy and is so afraid of democracy that he is going to try to figure out a go-around.

I don't think that they have been using this tactic enough and it's time to throw the "Un-American" and "Anti-American" label right back in the RNC's face.
-Doc Lightning-

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casinterest
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RE: Birthers Arise In Kansas

Sat Sep 15, 2012 2:55 am

Quoting Ken777 (Thread starter):
Florida!

They have a wing nut as a Governor and has been working hard to have people removed from the rolls of eligible voters. With that kind of mentality Florida seems a natural for Birthers getting Obama off the ballot and actually making a difference if they are successful.

That won;t work too well, they are already discovering that the "plethora" of eligible voters that they purged, weren't quite so many

http://www.huffingtonpost.com/diana-...ge-florida-colorado_b_1881516.html


"Last year Colorado Secretary of State Scott Gessler declared a virtual state of emergency -- possibly 11,000 non-citizens on the Colorado voter rolls. Soon after, Secretary of State Ken Detzner in Florida upped the ante by claiming he had a list of 180,000 potential non-citizens. That got attention. Numbers like that indicate a massive problem. But the numbers weren't quite right. Not even close. The final count? According to Colorado it appears that up to 141 non-citizens could be on its voter rolls. That's .004 percent of its 3.5 million registered voters. Florida now reports that its numbers could be as high as ... 207. That's .002 percent of its 11.5 million registered voters. Error-ridden and inaccurate voter rolls are a problem, and any ineligible voter on the rolls should be removed. But playing fast and loose with numbers is not the way to do it.
"


Quoting Ken777 (Thread starter):
found it hard to believe that Kansas could actually be that backward.

Ken , this is the same state that had creationism backed as science.
Chalk it up to a stroke in a heatwave.

However i have read that the saner members of the GOP are planning to quash his request. Should be interesting to see it play out.
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DeltaMD90
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RE: Birthers Arise In Kansas

Sat Sep 15, 2012 3:18 am

Quoting Ken777 (Thread starter):

I grew up thinking that Kansas was one of those "normal" states where nothing really happened there outside of college sports.

Yes Ken, all 2,871,200 Kansans are birthers, including my Kansan roommate.

Seriously, giving birthers any attention is the worst thing we can do. Remember when GA "tried" the same thing to the President?

BIRTHERS ARE A SMALL MINORITY, even in the Republican party. I am not impressed with a lot that they do, but really, this is a fringe movement making a lot of noise. I'd bet my new car (well it's my wife's I guess) that the President will be on the KS ballot in November
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Ken777
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RE: Birthers Arise In Kansas

Sat Sep 15, 2012 3:34 am

Quoting DeltaMD90 (Reply 3):
Yes Ken, all 2,871,200 Kansans are birthers, including my Kansan roommate.

Actually, everyone I have know or worked with from Kansas have been pretty nice people. One reason why I kept my tongue in my cheek when writing the OP.
 
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DocLightning
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RE: Birthers Arise In Kansas

Sat Sep 15, 2012 3:38 am

Quoting DeltaMD90 (Reply 3):
Seriously, giving birthers any attention is the worst thing we can do.

Well, when they try to subvert the electoral process, they need a bit of attention.
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seb146
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RE: Birthers Arise In Kansas

Sat Sep 15, 2012 3:50 am

Quoting DocLightning (Reply 1):
I find it interesting that for all the noise we hear from the Right about how the Democrats are trying to keep dead people on the ballot lists and commit voter fraud,

You will notice that there is not one instance they can point to of large scale voter fraud. Even the defense in Pennsylvania admitted there have been NO INSTANCES of voter fraud. And they still feel the need for voter suppression laws.
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PlanesNTrains
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RE: Birthers Arise In Kansas

Sat Sep 15, 2012 8:45 am

Well he certainly is great at pointing out all the anti-GOP stuff that can be dug up. Im sure there's nothing given a different spin in what he posts. Lol.

I just love the term Birthers. Almost makes them sound relevant.

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RE: Birthers Arise In Kansas

Sat Sep 15, 2012 12:14 pm

Quoting DocLightning (Reply 1):
The best thing that the Obama campaign can do at this point is pin this one squarely on the Romney campaign.

And this is Romney's fault, how? This birther crap has been going on since Obama was first running for POTUS, AFAIK.
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ltbewr
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RE: Birthers Arise In Kansas

Sat Sep 15, 2012 1:43 pm

As I have long said, if Pres. Obama had been born in Kansas instead of 'exotic' Hawaii or if his mother was still alive, none of this 'birther' stuff would be happening. I just hope some reasonable Republicans will reject these actions and make sure Kansas will have the President on the ballot.
 
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DeltaMD90
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RE: Birthers Arise In Kansas

Sat Sep 15, 2012 4:04 pm

I actually like the theory that the birthers really don't employ but kinda makes you go hmmm... the one that Hawaii was taken over injustly and they should be their own country, therefore it is/was not really part of the US so anyone born there is not a citizen (making the President a non-US citizen.) Not that I buy into it, I just think it's kinda funny
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garnetpalmetto
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RE: Birthers Arise In Kansas

Sat Sep 15, 2012 5:24 pm

Quoting AirframeAS (Reply 8):

And this is Romney's fault, how? This birther crap has been going on since Obama was first running for POTUS,

Unlike McCain in 2008, Romney's done nothing to repudiate the Birthers in his circle. If you'll recall, he did nothing to distance himself from Trump after he went hardcore Birther, stating "You know, I don't agree with all the people who support me and my guess is they don't all agree with everything I believe in. But I need to get 50.1% or more and I'm appreciative to have the help of a lot of good people." Since then, Romney has held fundraisers with Trump and has done little o squelch the Birther influence within the party. Arizona Secretary of State Ken Bennett was the guy who got into a very public grudge match with the state of Hawaii for a "verification" of Obama's natural records. He was also Romney's campaign chair in AZ. As previously pointed out, Kobach is an adviser to Romney on immigration, as previously pointed out. Had Romney done more to purge these elements from his own campaign, I have a feeling it'd just be the same old suspects (Taitz, Apuzzo, Farah, Arpaio, etc) playing flirty Birther games.
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PlanesNTrains
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RE: Birthers Arise In Kansas

Sat Sep 15, 2012 5:40 pm

There are always useful idiots on both sides. Relying on that as some sort of proof of something is a little silly. It happens with all candidates every election and quite often the candidates either don't address it or give it lip service.

Nothing new here.

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DocLightning
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RE: Birthers Arise In Kansas

Sat Sep 15, 2012 6:30 pm

Quoting AirframeAS (Reply 8):
And this is Romney's fault, how? This birther crap has been going on since Obama was first running for POTUS, AFAIK.

First of all, Romney could respond. He could say that he will withdraw from the ballot if Obama is removed or something. Some statement of solidarity with democracy and with reality. Something to make him actually look like a statesman. Back when all this Birther nonsense started, McCain made it very clear that he thought it was so much horsepiss. But then again, McCain is actually a statesman.

Second, this is a Romney advisor. "Informal," perhaps, but someone tightly tied with Romney. Romney could sit this guy down and go "knock it off. You're making me look bad."

Quoting DeltaMD90 (Reply 10):

I actually like the theory that the birthers really don't employ but kinda makes you go hmmm... the one that Hawaii was taken over injustly and they should be their own country, therefore it is/was not really part of the US so anyone born there is not a citizen (making the President a non-US citizen.) Not that I buy into it, I just think it's kinda funny

That still doesn't work because his mother was a citizen.

Quoting PlanesNTrains (Reply 12):
There are always useful idiots on both sides.

No, stop. This is called "trying to act balanced for balance's sake." There is no conspiracy theory coming from the Democrats that Romney isn't a citizen or any such horsepiss.

There is a growing disconnect between the Right and reality. When you have Romney campaign members saying that "We don't want our campaign being run by fact checkers," and entire GOP campaigns being based around the absolute denial of proven facts, there is a big problem. There is no such phenomenon on the left. You may disagree with the left's interpretation of the significance of those facts, but there is not a large-scale rejection of facts themselves.

This idea that you have to treat both sides equally is fundamentally UN-balanced because one side is behaving very differently from the other.
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CPH-R
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RE: Birthers Arise In Kansas

Sat Sep 15, 2012 7:01 pm

As mentioned above, this was an all-Republican, three man board, with virtually unlimited powers (there are no provisions for appealing their decisions) - oh, and it's chaired by an 'informal advisor' to Mitt Romney!

It won't go anywhere though, Joe Montgomery, who filed the original petition, has withdrawn it, although the objections board will still meet on Monday. Great news for them though, Orly Taitz heard about it and not only is she going to make an appearance on monday, she has also threatened to add them to one of her lawsuits, unless they remove Obama from the ballot!   
 
Ken777
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RE: Birthers Arise In Kansas

Sat Sep 15, 2012 7:14 pm

Quoting DocLightning (Reply 13):
First of all, Romney could respond. He could say that he will withdraw from the ballot if Obama is removed or something

That would take a backbone - something that McCain has and Romney apparently doesn't. I don't even consider integrity when looking at Romney.

It is a pity that with so many bright guys in the GOP who do have a backbone they had to select The Etch-A-Sketch guy who is afraid to tell the Birthers to shove it,

Actually, it looks like Huntsman was the only outstanding candidate in the primaries. Pity that.

Quoting CPH-R (Reply 14):
Joe Montgomery, who filed the original petition, has withdrawn it,

Poor Joe. He thought he was being a Cute Conservative when he filed that dumb a$$ petition. Now it appears he has had a huge level of backlash and ridicule. That dumb move will follow him all the way to his grave.
 
johnboy
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RE: Birthers Arise In Kansas

Sat Sep 15, 2012 7:15 pm

Maybe they can put an unborn fetus on the ballot.
That would really bring out the wingnut vote.
 
 
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DocLightning
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RE: Birthers Arise In Kansas

Sat Sep 15, 2012 7:31 pm

Quoting Ken777 (Reply 15):
It is a pity that with so many bright guys in the GOP who do have a backbone they had to select The Etch-A-Sketch guy who is afraid to tell the Birthers to shove it,

It is a sign of the underlying malaise affecting the GOP. They absolutely do not want someone who is reasonable or someone who will consider facts. They want someone who will claim the sky is red if Obama says that it is blue.

The GOP is going to shoot itself in the foot this way and they are going to lose this election, they are going to lose the Senate again, and they might even lose ground in the House. Their base has swung SO far to the right that basic facts and figures are meaningless. You have candidates telling enormous factual lies during campaigns. Raped women don't get pregnant. People in the Netherlands are afraid to go to the hospital because they'll get euthanized. Evolution is a hoax. Global warming is a hoax. Obama is a non-citizen. Obama is a Muslim. Gay marriage will lead to children being taught to try homosexuality in schools. Etc. etc. etc.

This sort of buffoonery is turning off swing voters. This is why Obama is going to win this election handily and even with a mandate.
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DeltaMD90
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RE: Birthers Arise In Kansas

Sat Sep 15, 2012 7:40 pm

Quoting DocLightning (Reply 17):
This sort of buffoonery is turning off swing voters. This is why Obama is going to win this election handily and even with a mandate.

   I even texted my sister today telling her I'm becoming more and more of a Democrat everyday, not because of what they're doing right, because of how ridiculous the GOP is becoming. The party (not all citizens on the right) is continually moving more and more right... actually it's more of a strange 3 direction. Hopefully when they lose in November they'll either get a grip on reality or a better party will come and replace them (Libertarians ftw!)
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bjorn14
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RE: Birthers Arise In Kansas

Sat Sep 15, 2012 8:03 pm

Quoting garnetpalmetto (Reply 11):
Unlike McCain in 2008, Romney's done nothing to repudiate the Birthers in his circle

Unlike McCain, Romney wasn't born in Panama at the public hospital in Colon (not the PCZ). He didn't want the issue brought up.
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RE: Birthers Arise In Kansas

Sat Sep 15, 2012 10:14 pm

Quoting CPH-R (Reply 14):
oh, and it's chaired by an 'informal advisor' to Mitt Romney!

How do we even let this sort of stuff happen? That's just flat-out embarrassing. If you're involved in a campaign, you should not be involved in running the electoral system at all. That should be common sense.

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pu
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RE: Birthers Arise In Kansas

Sat Sep 15, 2012 11:47 pm

Quoting DocLightning (Reply 5):
Well, when they try to subvert the electoral process, they need a bit of attention.

Actually, for people who want Obama to win, they should probably send off a donation to these birthers, put a yard sign up questioning Obama's birth and post on internet forums that Obama is an Al Qaeda sleeper agent, born into Islam, etc...

It would be a great victory for the Democrats if Obama was removed from the ballot in Kansas. He's not going to win this reddest of red states anyway, may as well let the Republicans make clowns of themselves by trying to remove the Democratic nominee from the ballot.

...nothing further repels moderate voters, the swing voters that decide every US election, than extremism.

Pu
 
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mariner
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RE: Birthers Arise In Kansas

Sun Sep 16, 2012 12:55 am

Quoting Ken777 (Thread starter):
. It was one of those states that didn't have gays or lesbians

I guess we see Kansas differently. I lived in Lawrence, Kansas for six months about twenty years ago. I had more (homo) sex there than I ever had in Los Angeles.

It was my first experience of living in America and I was quite amazed at the number of married men who sought me out. I didn't go looking, there was no need.

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PlanesNTrains
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RE: Birthers Arise In Kansas

Sun Sep 16, 2012 7:05 am

Sorry Doc but I just see it differently. I'm not trying to "balance" anything. I'm just resigned to the fact that the charade we call party politics draws plenty of wing nuts out from all directions. If you wish to claim that only the GOP has made misleading statements or sounded off their rocker at times, that's your choice. I'm getting to the point where I just want to lift myself up out of the morass and let the mud slinging and finger pointing consume someone else's time and attention.

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BestWestern
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RE: Birthers Arise In Kansas

Sun Sep 16, 2012 8:36 am

Quoting pu (Reply 21):
..nothing further repels moderate voters, the swing voters that decide every US election, than extremism.

I agree, as a centre right voter, extremism is driving my opinion towards the centre.

Quoting PlanesNTrains (Reply 23):
I'm just resigned to the fact that the charade we call party politics draws plenty of wing nuts out from all directions.

America has become very partisan. but it seems that there are far more right wing loonies driving me towards the centre, rather than left wing loonies driving me towards the right.
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pu
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RE: Birthers Arise In Kansas

Sun Sep 16, 2012 2:20 pm

Quoting bestwestern (Reply 24):

The right wing is more dogmatic and devoted to a doctrine about how government should work. In America anway.
The Democrats are more pragmatic it seems. They aremore about being the alternative for anyone who dislikes Republicans than they are married to constant ideals about government, it seems to me. For instance, Obama cut taxes in some areas but also wants to raise them elsewhere, while the Republicans are year in and year out always for cutting taxes.
...I just think having such a strong and firm philosophy that never changes more easily attracts extremists.
...the Democrats adjust their positions over time, so extremists don't as easily find a home
.
Just me observation.

Pu
 
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casinterest
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RE: Birthers Arise In Kansas

Sun Sep 16, 2012 3:32 pm

Quoting PlanesNTrains (Reply 23):

It's not that both political parties don't have a problem, it's just that the GOP has a way of adopting a strongly evangelic christian attitude that pervades their politics. The stance on abortion, gay marriage, Israel, and a few other items, are not bad values to hold as dogmatic of religion. However by pushing these stance into politics, it has a way of turning off folks that are pushing their religion into politics, and as seen in the middle east, this is not a good plan. Those that don't subscribe feel marginalized. There are a lot of christians, and so this approach to politics flies well for the GOP brass, but as can be seen, people are human and are affected by actions beyond their personal values.

The left has it's nutcases, but they do not get rampant support in the same way as the the fear and christian rhetoric does within the GOP.
That's my own humble opionion, take it for what it is worth.
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bjorn14
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RE: Birthers Arise In Kansas

Sun Sep 16, 2012 11:14 pm

Quoting bestwestern (Reply 24):
America has become very partisan. but it seems that there are far more right wing loonies driving me towards the centre, rather than left wing loonies driving me towards the right.

Because of the media and educational system in America leftwing nuts are the new normal.

Quoting pu (Reply 25):
The Democrats are more pragmatic it seems

They only call it compromise when Republicans agree with Democrats (and reported as if the Dems did the compromising), if not then it's Republicans playing bitter partisan politics. That's the meme.
"I want to know the voice of God the rest is just details" --A. Einstein
 
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DeltaMD90
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RE: Birthers Arise In Kansas

Sun Sep 16, 2012 11:18 pm

Quoting bjorn14 (Reply 27):
They only call it compromise when Republicans agree with Democrats (and reported as if the Dems did the compromising), if not then it's Republicans playing bitter partisan politics. That's the meme.

The Republicans are redefining the word "uncompromising." It's sickening. And I'm no leftwingnut... I was a Republican just a few years ago. They've lost their mind.

I'm not saying the Democrats haven't done anything wrong or that they even represent me, but I am appalled at what the GOP has become. Maybe they can reflect on it if they lose in November but I doubt anything will change
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Aesma
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RE: Birthers Arise In Kansas

Sun Sep 16, 2012 11:23 pm

Quoting bjorn14 (Reply 27):
Because of the media and educational system in America leftwing nuts are the new normal.

US "leftwing nuts" would be centrists in Europe. Obama would be a Christian Democrat (aka center right).
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pu
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RE: Birthers Arise In Kansas

Sun Sep 16, 2012 11:46 pm

Quoting DeltaMD90 (Reply 28):

Agree very much with your sentiments, and I am a lifelong Republican (until Bush the younger redefined the party).
.
Reagan's party of controlling government growth and spending became dominated by politicians who call themselves Christians to draw votes -but whose bloodlust and intolerance are the opposite of the New Testament Jesus I read about. The party who claims that all human life is sacred strangely applies this only to the unborn and is happy to spend trillions killing Muslims overseas with no purpose or coherent result while angrily confronting Americans at home who have sex in ways they dislike or make their own reproductive choices.
.
Both parties spend like drunken sailors so there is no difference there. Even if only 10 cents of every dollar spent in Obama's domestic spending does any good, thats better than wasting every dollar spent by Republican invasions and aggressive policies overseas, which earn disrespect, lost business opportunities and sometimes terrorism.

Pu
 
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DeltaMD90
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RE: Birthers Arise In Kansas

Mon Sep 17, 2012 12:16 am

Quoting pu (Reply 30):
thats better than wasting every dollar spent by Republican invasions and aggressive policies overseas, which earn disrespect, lost business opportunities and sometimes terrorism.

Almost all wasted. Unfortunately where the money does go often goes to some very strong/influential organizations

Quoting pu (Reply 30):
The party who claims that all human life is sacred strangely applies this only to the unborn and is happy to spend trillions killing Muslims overseas with no purpose or coherent result

Not to mention capital punishment...


It's sad, it used to be that I disagreed with a lot the Republicans said, then it was "well maybe they'll soon change and I can kind of relate to them again." Now I'm actually looking at the other side (the Democrats) thinking "hmm maybe if they change a little bit I'd consider going to them. I never would have thought in a million years I'd think that. All that in a few short years. Optimally, we need more that 2 parties which unfortunately won't happen...
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DocLightning
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RE: Birthers Arise In Kansas

Mon Sep 17, 2012 1:05 am

Quoting PlanesNTrains (Reply 23):
Sorry Doc but I just see it differently. I'm not trying to "balance" anything. I'm just resigned to the fact that the charade we call party politics draws plenty of wing nuts out from all directions. If you wish to claim that only the GOP has made misleading statements or sounded off their rocker at times, that's your choice.

No. I am claiming that:
1) If you look on a site like factcheck.org, you see that the GOP gets dinged a *lot* more than the DNC. I'm not saying that there is no DNC there. I am saying that they are responsible for about a third of the dings. And factcheck is nonpartisan.

2) The true crazies are coming from the Right at this point in time. The Left fringe is relatively inactive.

Quoting Aesma (Reply 29):
US "leftwing nuts" would be centrists in Europe. Obama would be a Christian Democrat (aka center right).

Exactly. Obama is actually CONSERVATIVE. He's an actual CONSERVATIVE. The "middle" in this country is way skewed.
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DeltaMD90
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RE: Birthers Arise In Kansas

Mon Sep 17, 2012 1:13 am

Quoting DocLightning (Reply 32):
Quoting Aesma (Reply 29):
US "leftwing nuts" would be centrists in Europe. Obama would be a Christian Democrat (aka center right).

Exactly. Obama is actually CONSERVATIVE. He's an actual CONSERVATIVE. The "middle" in this country is way skewed.

Well being cynical, you could say we're very left, compared to religious theocracies (assuming we exclude Rick Santorum   )
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garnetpalmetto
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RE: Birthers Arise In Kansas

Mon Sep 17, 2012 2:55 am

Quoting DeltaMD90 (Reply 33):

Well being cynical, you could say we're very left, compared to religious theocracies (assuming we exclude Rick Santorum )

The scary thing is, if you check out some of the Birther case filings, it's pretty clear that's what some of them would like us to become - arguments that posit that the Constitution only applies to Christians, that women and minorities aren't "real" citizens or that the Constitution applies differently to them are all just a little skewed. Of course, I'd call Birthers nuts anyway, but it seems there are some who are a special breed of nutty.
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PlanesNTrains
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RE: Birthers Arise In Kansas

Mon Sep 17, 2012 5:59 am

Doc, while what you say is accurate to a point, I'm looking back over the years and seeing a general disconnect with reality and/or the populace by both big parties. If we want to say that it's more GOP, fine. I dont care as ive never been registered or a donor to any party. I have my viewpoints that cross the liberal-conservative divide, though I tend to vote conservative most of the time. Actually, though, after Obama won in 2008 I vowed to vote yes for every single tax increase, property levy, school bond issue, Spending spree, etc. I figured if the left thought taxes and spending were the answer to our problems, well let's just do it to the hilt. We're screwed as a country financially anyways, why restrain at all anymore? I hope my liberal friends appreciate me.

In regards to how other countries define left, center, right, etc, I couldnt care less. I prefer to be who we are, not who others want us to be. For better or for worse. I know that's a losing battle but it's one I'll stand for.

-Dave
-Dave
 
PlanesNTrains
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RE: Birthers Arise In Kansas

Mon Sep 17, 2012 6:20 am

DeltaMD80, I'm curious why you only consider the non-GOP option to be a Democrat? If you are a conservative, is there another party that you could align with, or do you subscribe to the pragmatic notion that the only two parties that count are D and R, and that a vote for a different conservative candidate is just giving the election to the D candidate anyways? And if your vote is just going to result in a D win, why not vote your conscience and go for the party you align with rather than the lesser of two evils? Unless of course you do best align with the Democratic party, in which case I wonder what the conservative viewpoints are that you have that align with the Dems?

Don't read this as a challenge - I'm not trying to call you out, per se. I'm just honestly curious about how you are getting to the conclusion that as a conservative person that the Democratic party is the best fit for you?

Respectfully,

-Dave
-Dave
 
PlanesNTrains
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RE: Birthers Arise In Kansas

Mon Sep 17, 2012 6:25 am

Total side note, but is there a non-partisan website that you can go to and complete something akin to a multiple choice, fill-in-the-circle selection/menu option sheet that would end with matching you to the party or candidate that you most align with? Not just Democrat or Republican ideally, but perhaps the top 5-7 parties based on specific platform statements and issues.

Thank you!

-Dave
-Dave
 
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RE: Birthers Arise In Kansas

Mon Sep 17, 2012 9:00 am

Quoting DocLightning (Reply 1):


I find it interesting that for all the noise we hear from the Right about how the Democrats are trying to keep dead people on the ballot lists and commit voter fraud, it is the Right who is working hard to actually tamper with the democratic process.

The President has supplied both short and long forms of his COLB. His mother was an American citizen at the time of his birth. He was born in Hawai'i.

The best thing that the Obama campaign can do at this point is pin this one squarely on the Romney campaign. Use it to demonstrate that Romney actually hates democracy and is so afraid of democracy that he is going to try to figure out a go-around.

I don't think that they have been using this tactic enough and it's time to throw the "Un-American" and "Anti-American" label right back in the RNC's face.

Well said Doc
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RE: Birthers Arise In Kansas

Mon Sep 17, 2012 9:53 am

Ladies and Gentlemen of the great state of Kansas, Orly Taitz has arrived 

This, as they say, is going to be one for the ages...
 
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casinterest
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RE: Birthers Arise In Kansas

Mon Sep 17, 2012 10:38 am

Quoting PlanesNTrains (Reply 37):
Total side note, but is there a non-partisan website that you can go to and complete something akin to a multiple choice, fill-in-the-circle selection/menu option sheet that would end with matching you to the party or candidate that you most align with? Not just Democrat or Republican ideally, but perhaps the top 5-7 parties based on specific platform statements and issues.

Thank you!

-Dave
http://www.votesmart.org

They should tell you amongst 7 or 8 candidates



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bjorn14
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RE: Birthers Arise In Kansas

Mon Sep 17, 2012 10:42 am

Quoting PlanesNTrains (Reply 36):
Don't read this as a challenge - I'm not trying to call you out, per se. I'm just honestly curious about how you are getting to the conclusion that as a conservative person that the Democratic party is the best fit for you?

Well ask the Dems about Ralph Nader in 2000. They believe his Green Party shenanigans cost the Dems the election. But in reality Gore couldn't carry his home state of Tennessee and it's 11 EC votes and he lost the whole enchilada.

The Republicans saw what happened in 1992 and 1996 elections with Ross Perot. He actually did cost Bush 1 the election as Clinton never got above 47%
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RE: Birthers Arise In Kansas

Mon Sep 17, 2012 10:51 am

Quoting CPH-R (Reply 39):
Ladies and Gentlemen of the great state of Kansas, Orly Taitz has arrived

This, as they say, is going to be one for the ages...

As if that poor drought-stricken state hasn't already suffered enough! Will the steaming truckloads of...err...Taitz cause fertilizer sales to plummet due to a sudden increase in supply? Will she have the sense to return her law license to the cereal box she found it in before she racks up even more sanctions? Tune in next week - same BAT* Time, same BAT Channel!

*Birthers Are Twits
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sw733
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RE: Birthers Arise In Kansas

Mon Sep 17, 2012 2:45 pm

Quoting Ken777 (Thread starter):
I grew up thinking that Kansas was one of those "normal" states where nothing really happened there outside of college sports. It was one of those states that didn't have gays or lesbians. Just a quiet, stable state

I've lived in Kansas for 10 years now, and it has been that way throughout. Getting worse recently, though.

Quoting Ken777 (Reply 4):

Actually, everyone I have know or worked with from Kansas have been pretty nice people.

Indeed, Kansans are incredibly friendly people by and large. Doesn't mean they can't be idiots  
Quoting mariner (Reply 22):
I guess we see Kansas differently. I lived in Lawrence, Kansas for six months about twenty years ago.

Lawrence is Kansas in name only...

105 counties in Kansas. Only one (MAYBE two) ever vote "Blue" - Douglas, where Lawrence is. It's one blue county in a sea of red.
 
garnetpalmetto
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RE: Birthers Arise In Kansas

Mon Sep 17, 2012 2:57 pm

So anybody know if somebody has dropped a house on Orly yet?
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casinterest
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RE: Birthers Arise In Kansas

Mon Sep 17, 2012 2:58 pm

Quoting bjorn14 (Reply 41):
But in reality Gore couldn't carry his home state of Tennessee and it's 11 EC votes and he lost the whole enchilada.

The Florida vote was more consequential. If we are going on home states, Mitt is not going to win. Michigan and even Wisconsin are likely obama states.
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mariner
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RE: Birthers Arise In Kansas

Mon Sep 17, 2012 9:11 pm

Quoting sw733 (Reply 43):
Lawrence is Kansas in name only...

105 counties in Kansas. Only one (MAYBE two) ever vote "Blue" - Douglas, where Lawrence is. It's one blue county in a sea of red.

Tell me. The blokes I met up with mostly came from the red part of the state, come to the Big City (LOL) I guess to find a bit of whoopee.  

mariner
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DeltaMD90
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RE: Birthers Arise In Kansas

Mon Sep 17, 2012 9:15 pm

Quoting PlanesNTrains (Reply 36):
DeltaMD80, I'm curious why you only consider the non-GOP option to be a Democrat? If you are a conservative, is there another party that you could align with, or do you subscribe to the pragmatic notion that the only two parties that count are D and R, and that a vote for a different conservative candidate is just giving the election to the D candidate anyways? And if your vote is just going to result in a D win, why not vote your conscience and go for the party you align with rather than the lesser of two evils? Unless of course you do best align with the Democratic party, in which case I wonder what the conservative viewpoints are that you have that align with the Dems?

Well for simplicity I'll often boil it down to D and R, though I'm a lot more closely aligned to the Libertarian Party (and I very much like Gary Johnson.) There are a tiny bit of R-only beliefs I have and more D-only views I have, so I consider myself a moderate-libertarian. When it boils down to a good Democrat vs a good Republican I'm probably more on the Republican side.

Sorry for the not-so-straightforward answer. A big reason I distanced myself from the Republicans actually was the whole birther thing (among other reasons.) I think only a small minority of Republicans subscribe to it, smaller than many on here probably think, but what really pissed me off is tied to a bigger problem--the Republicans automatic hatred of the President in many cases. They disagree with him--I get it. I don't think that makes them racist and I often defend them in disagreeing. What does make me mad is, IMO, the reaction from the right to the birthers isn't agreement with the birthers but they won't call them out (beyond a token few) simply because the birthers are against the President and why attack an enemy of your enemy?

These Middle East riots really opened my eyes. Right as they happened I hear many on the right condemn the President... for what? "For being weak..." or something and only later did I start hearing the (weak) explanations. They basically condemned first then thought of a reason why instead of the usual find a reason why then condemn. I hear it all the time from our politicians, even from some on this board. And I'm not saying the left is blameless... they are politicians too, but the GOP politicians, at least for now, are much much worse. JMO
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JetBlueGuy2006
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RE: Birthers Arise In Kansas

Mon Sep 17, 2012 9:49 pm

According to CNN, the President will appear on the ballot after the challenge was dropped

http://politicalticker.blogs.cnn.com...t-after-birther-challenge-dropped/
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PlanesNTrains
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RE: Birthers Arise In Kansas

Mon Sep 17, 2012 11:41 pm

Quoting casinterest (Reply 40):
http://www.votesmart.org

They should tell you amongst 7 or 8 candidates

Thanks. I'll check it out. Did a very brief one on some other site yesterday that said I'm an anarchist. Lol

-Dave
-Dave

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