RussianJet
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'Pink Slime' - Your Views

Mon Sep 17, 2012 8:35 pm

I got to reading about Pink Slime, following an article related to Jamie Oliver's recent campaigning stateside. I have to say, I was pretty appalled to see that ground beef and other products could be sold containing this chemically-treated sludge with no requirement to label it so. Chemical treatments aside, the industry's position is that it is nothing but pure beef, and that there is therefore no issue. It just seems to horrible though. Maybe it is because it is made up of the seemingly worst bits of beef, long after anything of serious quality has beed taken from the animal. Anyway, what do you think of it? Do you find it as repulsive as I do? Should there be mandatory labelling to indicate where products contain this type of 'meat'?

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pink_slime
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TheCommodore
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RE: 'Pink Slime' - Your Views

Mon Sep 17, 2012 8:43 pm

Here's a nice picture of the slime, describe as lean, finely textured beef.

http://www.news.com.au/national/tv-c...slime/story-fndo4bst-1226475606792

Yuck !

Go Jamie.... get this stuff out of the food we eat

Quoting RussianJet (Thread starter):
Chemical treatments aside, the industry's position is that it is nothing but pure beef, and that there is therefore no issue.

Yeah right.

Quoting RussianJet (Thread starter):
Maybe it is because it is made up of the seemingly worst bits of beef, long after anything of serious quality has beed taken from the animal.

But the company tells us its ok, and its made from "lean beef" so it must be alright then....... No !

Quoting RussianJet (Thread starter):
Should there be mandatory labelling to indicate where products contain this type of 'meat'?

No labeling.

We don't need to eat this sort of crap in this day and age. With so much fresh food available, this other stuff, needs to be completely banned and outlawed.
“At first, they'll only dislike what you say, but the more correct you start sounding the more they'll dislike you.”
 
lewis
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RE: 'Pink Slime' - Your Views

Mon Sep 17, 2012 8:46 pm

I do find it repulsive and I would like to have the choice to avoid it. There is a lot of crap in processed meat products, that is for sure, but the fact that they also mix it with ground beef means that it finds its way to my shopping cart without me being aware. I would like to see labeling for it, although I think the chances are slim, seeing that labeling for GM products in the US is not going to happen any time soon either.
 
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Tugger
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RE: 'Pink Slime' - Your Views

Mon Sep 17, 2012 9:03 pm

Quoting RussianJet (Thread starter):
I got to reading about Pink Slime, following an article related to Jamie Oliver's recent campaigning stateside. I have to say, I was pretty appalled to see that ground beef and other products could be sold containing this chemically-treated sludge with no requirement to label it so. Chemical treatments aside, the industry's position is that it is nothing but pure beef, and that there is therefore no issue. It just seems to horrible though. Maybe it is because it is made up of the seemingly worst bits of beef, long after anything of serious quality has beed taken from the animal. Anyway, what do you think of it? Do you find it as repulsive as I do? Should there be mandatory labelling to indicate where products contain this type of 'meat'?

I have no problem with it. I mean I am a modern meat eating person, if you go through the entire rending and processing of ground beef the process is very gross.

It's not like I want to eat a pure bucket of it but mixed in with other ground beef? Sure. And I must admit that I sometimes eat "chicken nuggets" which from what I know are almost entirely made up of "fine processed chicken" which is essential what "lean finely textured beef (LFTB)" is.

And as far are the "chemical treatment" isn't most meat is treated with the ammonia and water treatment for its germ killing properties? And from what I have read it evaporates quickly.

Quoting TheCommodore (Reply 1):
Yuck !
Quoting lewis (Reply 2):
I do find it repulsive and I would like to have the choice to avoid it.

If you are a "normal" meat eating person: Why? What about sausage? Isn't that process "yuck" too? How about chicken nuggets?

I think we get to sensitive to stuff nowadays because we are now very removed from our food production process. If this was days past I would be killing my own meat, cutting it up, boiling the carcass bits off, trimming off everything I could save and let the remains molder for use in something else (maybe fertilizer? Or trap bait?). And would it be healthier? The process would take longer, refrigeration would be less, and I would not be using things like the ammonia process, I also would not be inspected as routinely.


Tugg

[Edited 2012-09-17 14:24:02]
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RussianJet
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RE: 'Pink Slime' - Your Views

Mon Sep 17, 2012 9:24 pm

Quoting tugger (Reply 3):
What about sausage?

Depends on the quality and ingredients. I for one don't buy cheap sausages, ever.

Quoting tugger (Reply 3):
How about chicken nuggets?

I avoid such highly-processed foods like the plague.

You make some pretty rational arguments, and it is true that much of my dislike for these things is not entirely logical, but I have a serious gut feeling (no pun intended) that these highly-processed foods are not so good for us.
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Rara
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RE: 'Pink Slime' - Your Views

Mon Sep 17, 2012 9:33 pm

It doesn't seem so bad to me. It's not unhealthy, apparently it doesn't taste bad, and not using it would mean that a whole lot of beef goes to waste, which in turn would make beef more expensive and more resource-intensive.

Of course we all want porterhouse steaks, but there's a lot more to the animal than prime cuts. In the old days people knew how to use every single bit of it. If we have to mash it up into slime nowadays, why not.

Quoting lewis (Reply 2):
I do find it repulsive and I would like to have the choice to avoid it. There is a lot of crap in processed meat products, that is for sure, but the fact that they also mix it with ground beef means that it finds its way to my shopping cart without me being aware.

Unlikely if you live in the EU, apparently we don't get pink slime with our ground beef.
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lewis
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RE: 'Pink Slime' - Your Views

Mon Sep 17, 2012 9:43 pm

I do understand that is poses no risk to health but I also like knowing what I consume. I am also very well aware of where food comes from, I have grown up in places where the chicken is killed right before it is cooked etc.

I am not demanding that everything I eat should be made from prime beef cuts only, but if something is not, I would like to know it and be able to choose if I consume it or not.

Quoting tugger (Reply 3):

If you are a "normal" meat eating person: Why? What about sausage? Isn't that process "yuck" too? How about chicken nuggets?

I avoid such foods for that reason exactly. I also avoid cheap sausages because they mostly contain leftover bits and who knows what else...

Quoting Rara (Reply 5):
Unlikely if you live in the EU, apparently we don't get pink slime with our ground beef.

I live in the US now so I am pretty sure I have consumed pink slime in many things I have eaten recently.
 
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scbriml
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RE: 'Pink Slime' - Your Views

Mon Sep 17, 2012 9:51 pm

Quoting tugger (Reply 3):
What about sausage? Isn't that process "yuck" too? How about chicken nuggets?

Neither sausages nor nuggets count as 'meat' in my book.      

A long time ago I took the decision to only eat meat that is in a form that's recognisable as a piece of meat. I avoid products whose description includes the phrases "chopped and shaped" or "formed from". I only eat burgers or pies that I've made myself.
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Aesma
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RE: 'Pink Slime' - Your Views

Mon Sep 17, 2012 10:42 pm

Quoting tugger (Reply 3):
And as far are the "chemical treatment" isn't most meat is treated with the ammonia and water treatment for its germ killing properties? And from what I have read it evaporates quickly.

In the US yes. Here it's illegal. Probably why we apparently don't have pink slime either.
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Type-Rated
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RE: 'Pink Slime' - Your Views

Mon Sep 17, 2012 10:43 pm

Some grocery stores advertise that their ground beef products are "pink slime free". I don't eat ground beef as much as I used to.
It's funny when you go into a McDonalds or Jack In The Box and mention pink slime to the counter folks. If you ask them if it's in their hamburgers they'll look at you funny with the standard saying "We have never heard of such a thing!". Sure they have with all the publicity it has received over the past few months.
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TheCommodore
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RE: 'Pink Slime' - Your Views

Mon Sep 17, 2012 10:51 pm

Quoting lewis (Reply 2):
seeing that labeling for GM products in the US is not going to happen any time soon either.



Its to late for any of that.
GM corn is out there in the food chain, and its there forever more now  
Quoting tugger (Reply 3):
If you are a "normal" meat eating person: Why? What about sausage? Isn't that process "yuck" too? How about chicken nuggets?

I am a "normal" meat eating person and I eat sausages too, only not "factory" made ones, stuffed with artificial fillers and the like.

And as for "chicken nuggets" I'd stay well clear of them if I were you.   

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=T67DvoH2H3E

Quoting Rara (Reply 5):
It doesn't seem so bad to me. It's not unhealthy, apparently it doesn't taste bad, and not using it would mean that a whole lot of beef goes to waste, which in turn would make beef more expensive and more resource-intensive.

How on earth can it "apparently" be good for you after the chemical process its been through ?
Nothing can be good if its treated like that.

Quoting Aesma (Reply 8):
In the US yes. Here it's illegal. Probably why we apparently don't have pink slime either.

As it is in Australia too. No pink slime for us either, apparently !

Quoting type-rated (Reply 9):
Sure they have with all the publicity it has received over the past few months.

That's why I stay away from such eateries !
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Tugger
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RE: 'Pink Slime' - Your Views

Mon Sep 17, 2012 11:18 pm

Quoting RussianJet (Reply 4):
I avoid such highly-processed foods like the plague.

You make some pretty rational arguments, and it is true that much of my dislike for these things is not entirely logical, but I have a serious gut feeling (no pun intended) that these highly-processed foods are not so good for us.

I agree, I don't think highly processed foods aren't very good for people either. But I more distrust things like hot dogs and fast food and such, more than what is essentially just the ultimate end of the beef processing process.

Quoting scbriml (Reply 7):
A long time ago I took the decision to only eat meat that is in a form that's recognisable as a piece of meat. I avoid products whose description includes the phrases "chopped and shaped" or "formed from". I only eat burgers or pies that I've made myself.

Fair dinkum. I can't argue with that, I too prefer "recognizable meat" with the exception that I love good sausage (and no, I am not looking A.net dating advice, sorry.   ) and brats, etc.

Quoting Aesma (Reply 8):
In the US yes. Here it's illegal. Probably why we apparently don't have pink slime either.

So what does your meat industry use as an anti-bacterial agent? Just curious.

Quoting TheCommodore (Reply 10):
How on earth can it "apparently" be good for you after the chemical process its been through ?Nothing can be good if its treated like that.

What "Chemical process" are you talking about? Per the OP cited wiki entry:

Quote:
The production process uses heat in centrifuges to separate the fat from the meat in beef trimmings.The resulting product is exposed to ammonia gas or citric acid to kill bacteria.

Tugg
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Aesma
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RE: 'Pink Slime' - Your Views

Mon Sep 17, 2012 11:30 pm

Quoting tugger (Reply 11):
So what does your meat industry use as an anti-bacterial agent? Just curious.

I'm not a specialist, but if I understand correctly it's the practice that's illegal. You must have processes that don't need such agents while keeping meat safe. It is one of the reasons importing meat from the US is mostly impossible (the other being hormones).
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TheCommodore
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RE: 'Pink Slime' - Your Views

Tue Sep 18, 2012 12:22 am

Quoting tugger (Reply 11):
What "Chemical process" are you talking about? Per the OP cited wiki entry:

In the article I posted below.

I especially love this quote

"The meat is then treated with ammonia to make it safe for human consumption, he alleged, then used to bulk out such products as mince, burgers and pies."

Human consumption ?

What the hell was it before it was "treated" with ammonia. eeeekkkkkkk ?

If it was not able to have been consumed safely before it had to go through the process, then I'm not interested in eating it thanks.

Quoting TheCommodore (Reply 1):
http://www.news.com.au/national/tv-c...slime/story-fndo4bst-1226475606792


[Edited 2012-09-17 17:25:52]
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Francoflier
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RE: 'Pink Slime' - Your Views

Tue Sep 18, 2012 8:32 am

The only issue with this for me is the way it's disinfected. Otherwise it's a biologically acceptable source of proteins which would otherwise go to waste. Feeding the ever increasing population will become enough of an issue that we can't afford to waste that. If you're going to grow and kill the beef anyway...

The problem is the ammonia that's used to remove the bacteria and, primarily, that fact that so much bacteria exists in the beef in the first place. The US has relied greatly on corn to feed its enormous need for cattle, but cows don't eat corn, their digestive system is not designed to handle it. The result is animal that are generally less healthy that pasture grazing ones, and which meat contains abnormal levels of bacteria, which has to be removed by processing it with ammonia or even bleach...

Of course beef would not be that cheap if it wasn't for corn, so the real issue is that we consumers should want to eat less red meat (and less meat generally speaking) and try to diversify our protein intake. Raising cattle in such amounts takes a huge load on the food chain.

Quoting Rara (Reply 5):
Unlikely if you live in the EU, apparently we don't get pink slime with our ground beef.

Because of the bacteria removing process I presume. Ammonia may evaporate, traces if it must remain in any case...

Quoting tugger (Reply 11):
So what does your meat industry use as an anti-bacterial agent? Just curious.

The trick is to have meat that doesn't require to be disinfected in the first place. Yes, it means it's more expensive. Between that and taxes, labor laws etc, a McDonald's burger in France costs around 7$...

At the end, the consumer is the one who decides. The market is the ultimate form of democracy. If enough people decide that they don't want to eat that 'soylent pink', it will disappear on its own.
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Rara
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RE: 'Pink Slime' - Your Views

Tue Sep 18, 2012 9:15 am

Quoting TheCommodore (Reply 10):
How on earth can it "apparently" be good for you after the chemical process its been through ?
Nothing can be good if its treated like that.

It may not be a top source of nutrition, but red meat generally isn't the most healthy food anyway. But I think it's safe to say that it won't harm you, because otherwise it wouldn't be legal. At least the EU always errs on the side of caution as far as food safety is concerned, and I imagine the U.S. food administration does the same.

Quoting francoflier (Reply 14):
The only issue with this for me is the way it's disinfected. Otherwise it's a biologically acceptable source of proteins which would otherwise go to waste. Feeding the ever increasing population will become enough of an issue that we can't afford to waste that. If you're going to grow and kill the beef anyway...
Quoting francoflier (Reply 14):
Of course beef would not be that cheap if it wasn't for corn, so the real issue is that we consumers should want to eat less red meat (and less meat generally speaking) and try to diversify our protein intake. Raising cattle in such amounts takes a huge load on the food chain.

The above quotes really sum it up. We should generally produce and consume less meat, and if we do, we should use the whole animal and not let it go to waste. Nowadays people are often disgusted by innards, so they have to eat them in the form of sausages instead.  
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idealstandard
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RE: 'Pink Slime' - Your Views

Tue Sep 18, 2012 9:50 am

Quoting scbriml (Reply 7):
Neither sausages nor nuggets count as 'meat' in my book.

A long time ago I took the decision to only eat meat that is in a form that's recognisable as a piece of meat. I avoid products whose description includes the phrases "chopped and shaped" or "formed from". I only eat burgers or pies that I've made myself.

Don't agree with this attitude at all.

I buy sausages from a local butcher and I can physically see him making them. If you have put time and effort (and good quality ingredients) into a sausage, it is absurd to rule it out because "it doesn't look like meat". Ridiculous.

I too make my own burgers, however I do not see the problem in buying burgers from a high end supermarket or from the butcher - I know what goes in.

Also, just because something "looks like meat" doesn't make it good - chicken (unless you buy high quality, free range and organic meat) is often pumped with water and chemicals to improve the look of it and to increase the shelf life of the product.

IS.
 
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scbriml
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RE: 'Pink Slime' - Your Views

Tue Sep 18, 2012 11:20 am

Quoting idealstandard (Reply 16):
Don't agree with this attitude at all.

That's fine.

Quoting idealstandard (Reply 16):
I buy sausages from a local butcher and I can physically see him making them.

I have better things to do with my time than watch a butcher make sausages.

Quoting idealstandard (Reply 16):
however I do not see the problem in buying burgers from a high end supermarket

I do.

Quoting idealstandard (Reply 16):
unless you buy high quality, free range and organic meat

Which I do.
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aerorobnz
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RE: 'Pink Slime' - Your Views

Tue Sep 18, 2012 12:27 pm

make your own sausages, kill your own meat. Keep this shit out of our burgers. Live the self sufficient dream.
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Starbuk7
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RE: 'Pink Slime' - Your Views

Wed Sep 19, 2012 12:19 pm

I go to the Asian markets or butcher shop locally and you can pick out a chunk of meat and they will grind it into hamburger for you right there, there is no "pink slime" involved in this process at all.

Best way to go as far as I am concerned, because I will not stop eating meat.
 
Braniff747SP
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RE: 'Pink Slime' - Your Views

Sat Sep 22, 2012 3:26 pm

I don't eat junk meat, so I don't care. Can't say Iike the idea of eating the stuff.
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Aesma
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RE: 'Pink Slime' - Your Views

Sat Sep 22, 2012 3:53 pm

Sure nothing should be thrown away, but that kind of stuff is perfect for pet food.
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NoUFO
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RE: 'Pink Slime' - Your Views

Sat Sep 22, 2012 5:18 pm

Quoting Rara (Reply 15):
But I think it's safe to say that it won't harm you, because otherwise it wouldn't be legal. At least the EU always errs on the side of caution as far as food safety is concerned, and I imagine the U.S. food administration does the same.

If it is unhealthy it will harm you.

--- snip snap ---

I once had a job interview at the Federal Office of Consumer Protection and Food Safety in Berlin, two minutes of which went like this (Note: I shared the table with about five interviewers):

Interviewer: "Mr. NoUFO, why do you think do food safety regulations exist?"

Me: (thinking: that question is either stupid or a trap) "To protect consumers from health risks."

There was strange, almost painful silence filling the room. Everybody stared at the papers in front of them, only one woman looked slightly annoyed.

Me: " ... uhm ... and to protect the industry as well ..."

Vigorous nodding all around.

Me: "... I mean to protect the industry from law suits."

Interviewer: "Right. Next question."

--- snap snip ---

The maximum residue limit for Glyphosate on (genetically modified) soy beans once was 0.1 mg Glyphosate per 1 kg soy beans. From one year to another the limit was raised to 20 mg Glyphosate per 1 kg soy beans. Apparently, because genetically modified soy beans (which, according to Monsanto, needs less herbicides) are now 200 times more polluted than crops were before, it is now safe to consume them. Same happened in the U.S. (I believe) and in Australia (I am sure).
Fortunately, in Germany, you won't find much genetically modified crops in your food, but it is part of livestock feed.

Travemünde is considered a spa ("Ostseeheilbad") but pollutions from the ferries leaving for Scandinavia make the air less than appropriate for a spa town. Hence the administration did what? They raised the limits in order not to spoil the tourism industry.

Honestly, say what you want about The Greens but the only time consumer protection in Germany came close to actual consumer protection was when Renate Künast was head of the respective ministry. And she did have some fights with the industry.
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photopilot
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RE: 'Pink Slime' - Your Views

Sun Sep 23, 2012 7:13 pm

Oh heck, what a bunch of squeamish people you are.

What about Headcheese, or Haggis. Both are wonderful and also made out of various parts of animals that you'd not normally find at a butcher.

Or who hasn't gone to a baseball game and enjoyed a Ball Park Franks made fron mechanically separated turkey: As the U.S. Department of Agriculture (USDA) describes it, this "paste-like and batter-like poultry product [is] produced by forcing bones, with attached edible tissue, through a sive or similar device under high pressure." Unlike mechanically separated beef or pork, it can be present in hot dogs in "any amount."

Much ado about nothing IMHO.
 
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Aesma
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RE: 'Pink Slime' - Your Views

Sun Sep 23, 2012 7:43 pm

Maybe in the US but here you definitely would found everything from the beast at a butcher (including the brain), but not slime that a butcher would not be able to produce anyway since it's something made in a factory.
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Tugger
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RE: 'Pink Slime' - Your Views

Mon Sep 24, 2012 5:33 am

Quoting Aesma (Reply 24):
the brain), but not slime that a butcher would not be able to produce anyway since it's something made in a factory.

Kind of like pâté de foie gras? Or do you think that is actually "natural" in how it is now made/acquired? There are many ways that humans have used animals for their food needs over the centuries. By both machine (from sharp stone to band saws etc) and "natural" (*like foie gras and veal). We do a lot and a lot of it is not pretty or particularly natural (do they use band saws in Europe?), trying to separate every last vestige of edible material from the carcass has been going on for a long time, it is actually a very smart thing to do and reduces waste and unnecessary use of more animals. Farmers have been doing that for a long time, and it is not a bad or undesirable thing. Pink slime or no (and I find "pink slime" far less objectionable than veal or foie gras or even industrial egg production).

Tugg
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TheCommodore
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RE: 'Pink Slime' - Your Views

Mon Sep 24, 2012 5:51 am

Quoting Rara (Reply 15):
because otherwise it wouldn't be legal.

Lots of things "out there" are legal, but many, may not necessarily be good for you.

Quoting tugger (Reply 25):
Pink slime or no (and I find "pink slime" far less objectionable than veal or foie gras or even industrial egg production).

How can you really mean that Tugg ?

This "pink slime stuff" has been treated chemically, it is no longer "natural" and unaltered.
Where as, pâté de foie gras is. I agree with you though, that the process of getting it, is not good, but at least it hasn't been treated with anything other than natural stuff.
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Tugger
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RE: 'Pink Slime' - Your Views

Mon Sep 24, 2012 6:14 am

Quoting TheCommodore (Reply 26):
This "pink slime stuff" has been treated chemically, it is no longer "natural" and unaltered.
Where as, pâté de foie gras is. I agree with you though, that the process of getting it, is not good, but at least it hasn't been treated with anything other than natural stuff.

I get "treated chemically" when I apply alcohol to my skin to disinfect it and do not see the process for the mechanically separated "lean beef" product. To my knowledge that is the point of the "chemical treatment".
And with regard to other food items/products, the bodies has many internal chemical processes and we just manipulate them to our purposes and have discovered them via rather harsh methods. The ammonia treatment is not performed on a living creature, I see that as no less "not good" than the "natural stuff" and methods used on living animals for producing other food items.

Tugg

[Edited 2012-09-23 23:41:58]
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Aesma
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RE: 'Pink Slime' - Your Views

Mon Sep 24, 2012 11:27 am

Quoting tugger (Reply 25):
Kind of like pâté de foie gras? Or do you think that is actually "natural" in how it is now made/acquired? There are many ways that humans have used animals for their food needs over the centuries.

Well pâté de foie gras is a pâté, I'd rather eat pure foie gras, in bloc or lobes. And I think I've read somewhere it can be made without force feeding, it will be far smaller and cost more but it's doable. As you say, over the centuries the recipe has not changed and has never called for machines.

I have eaten chicken nuggets and even at KFC recently for the first time (colleagues brought me there, never again). The fact that people can like eating that doesn't mean that they'd actually want to know how it's made and would continue eating it after having been shown.
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