maxthrusta330
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Netanyahu Buckles In Showdown With Iran

Sat Sep 29, 2012 10:03 am

There is an excellent editorial in the Financial Times, exposing the deeply flawed strategy and bullying tactics of Benjamin Netanyahu and his government with regard to their repetitive military threats against Iran. How shockingly arrogant it is for the leader of a tiny little country to attempt to dictate the foreign policy of a super power like the United States by trying to force the hand of the US just before a presidential election. I for one am delighted that Netanyahu's flawed warmongering strategy has backfired, however the simple fact that Netanyahu thought that he could force the hand of the US in such a way, surely raises questions about US sovereignty. It also truly defies logic:

http://www.ft.com/intl/cms/s/0/c6592...e3-00144feabdc0.html#axzz27mJqKnWa

Obama's firm decisiveness and determination in refusing to bow to Netanyahu's demands for the US to commit to military action against Iran is honorable. Now that Netanyahu has been humbled by the US refusing to be dictated to by an "ally", he has effectively been forced to back down on his threats of a late 2012 military strike against Iran. Now that Netanyahu's finally tasted some humble pie, hopefully we won't have to hear so much "noise" from this odious little man.

We need to give peace a chance.
 
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SOBHI51
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RE: Netanyahu Buckles In Showdown With Iran

Sat Sep 29, 2012 11:49 am

Quoting maxthrusta330 (Thread starter):
We need to give peace a chance.

You can never put Peace and Netanyahu in the same phrase.   
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flyingturtle
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RE: Netanyahu Buckles In Showdown With Iran

Sat Sep 29, 2012 12:05 pm

Quoting maxthrusta330 (Thread starter):
There is an excellent editorial in the Financial Times

Google for the title of that article - clicking on the link asked me for $$$.

Quoting SOBHI51 (Reply 1):
You can never put Peace and Netanyahu in the same phrase.

  

I really wonder if there will ever be a generation of young Israelis that is fed up with their foreign policy. If violence doesn't achieve the goal, use more violence. If intimidations do not work, use more of them. If sanctions do not work, push the UN for some more.


David
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kaitak
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RE: Netanyahu Buckles In Showdown With Iran

Sat Sep 29, 2012 12:14 pm

Quoting maxthrusta330 (Thread starter):
Now that Netanyahu has been humbled by the US refusing to be dictated to by an "ally", he has effectively been forced to back down on his threats of a late 2012 military strike against Iran. Now that Netanyahu's finally tasted some humble pie, hopefully we won't have to hear so much "noise" from this odious little man.

Although I dislike BN, I dislike Ahmedinejad and the Iranian leadership even more; I think we also need to understand the Israeli mindset when it comes to people like Ahmedinejad. People of Netanyahu's parents generation will have heard him (Ahmedinejad) and thought "we've heard this before, haven't we, and nothing was done then, to stop another odious little man, until it was too late". We cannot underestimate the effect that the holocaust has and continues to have on the Jewish psyche, nor of course can we blame them for this. If I were Israeli, I'd be quite concerned; what would be the use of an Israeli PM who simply ignored such ramblings, particularly if there is evidence that the country he leads is building nuclear weapons. They simply can't take the chance.

I agree that Obama's line is, however, a very good one. He was not bowed to BN's request to draw a red line, but he has said that Iran will not be allowed to develop nuclear weapons. I do also believe that BN must be very frustrated at seeing Romney's presidential bid go down the drain; Romney as US president would have been a gift to the Israelis, who've never really liked Obama anyway; Romney is a complete greenhorn on foreign policy and surrounded by the same neocons who pulled Bush II's strings, they'd have control of Romney's foreign policy in no time (if they hadn't drafted it already, which I suspect they had).

I realise that both of the above paragraphs may seem contradictory, but basically, my line would be, I don't like either BN or MA, but I dislike and distrust MA more. I think Obama is doing the right thing and I think that the policy of squeezing Iran through economic sanctions is already having an effect (even though the Iranians won't admit this, of course).
 
ImperialEagle
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RE: Netanyahu Buckles In Showdown With Iran

Sat Sep 29, 2012 1:58 pm

Kaitak pretty much sums it up. I will add

Quoting maxthrusta330 (Thread starter):
their repetitive military threats against Iran.

Who is threatening whom? BN is simply reacting to all the threats from MA. I would expect nothing less from my government if some nut case kept threatening our inhiliation.

Quoting maxthrusta330 (Thread starter):
arrogant

When it comes to arrogance MA takes the cake!

Quoting maxthrusta330 (Thread starter):
flawed warmongering strategy

Again, BA was elected to protect his country and I believe he will do whatever it takes to do so. If an Adolf Hitler wanabe comes along and threatens the existence of Israel they are delusional if they don't think Israel is going to survive no matter what it needs to do. The last time the Jewish people waited around for the "approval" of the non-Jewish world for help, over 6 million died.

Quoting maxthrusta330 (Thread starter):
refusing to bow to Netanyahu's demands

Nobody will ever know whether or not Obama has refused anything. Most situations like this are handled behind closed doors anyway and we will never know what is really going on. AND you can be assured that on the highest levels the Gulf Countries are well represented too. MA is just as big a threat to them it's just that, as usual, Israel becomes everyone's scapegoat.

Quoting maxthrusta330 (Thread starter):
We need to give peace a chance.

Really, well, tell that to Ahmedinejad.  
"If everything seems under control, you're just not going fast enough!"
 
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DeltaMD90
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RE: Netanyahu Buckles In Showdown With Iran

Sat Sep 29, 2012 2:30 pm

Quoting ImperialEagle (Reply 4):
Quoting maxthrusta330 (Thread starter):
We need to give peace a chance.

Really, well, tell that to Ahmedinejad.  

Why does everyone assume he'd actually use a nuke? Minus that horribly out of context, misquoted "wipe Israel off the map line"
Ironically I have never flown a Delta MD-90 :)
 
maxthrusta330
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RE: Netanyahu Buckles In Showdown With Iran

Sat Sep 29, 2012 3:50 pm

Quoting ImperialEagle (Reply 4):
Nobody will ever know whether or not Obama has refused anything.

We already do know, I'm confused by your comment - didn't you read the Financial Times article? Netanyahu wanted to force Obama's hand into committing to support a Israeli military strike against Iran - Obama refused to be dictated to by Netanyahu, and Netanyahu's bully boy tactics subsequently fell flat on their face. The whole world knows that Israel is a military lightweight without US support. Simply put, if the US refuses to support an Israeli attack on Iran, Israel is too weak to take on Iran on its own - the Israelis know that they'll get a good hiding  
 
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Aesma
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RE: Netanyahu Buckles In Showdown With Iran

Sat Sep 29, 2012 4:58 pm

Quoting kaitak (Reply 3):
we've heard this before, haven't we, and nothing was done then

You mean people getting second class citizen status, being rounded up in ghettos after their land and homes were stolen ?

Quoting ImperialEagle (Reply 4):
Who is threatening whom? BN is simply reacting to all the threats from MA. I would expect nothing less from my government if some nut case kept threatening our inhiliation.

Nothing less than yet another war ?
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DocLightning
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RE: Netanyahu Buckles In Showdown With Iran

Sat Sep 29, 2012 5:33 pm

Quoting DeltaMD90 (Reply 5):
Why does everyone assume he'd actually use a nuke? Minus that horribly out of context, misquoted "wipe Israel off the map line"

I don't think it's misquoted or out of context. I also don't think he actually believes that he could possibly succeed at such a project.
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Kiwirob
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RE: Netanyahu Buckles In Showdown With Iran

Sat Sep 29, 2012 5:42 pm

I wonder why we the west haven't drawn a red line under Israel's own nuclear program, it would appear fair to me that if Iran isn't allowed nukes Israel shouldn't either.
 
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DeltaMD90
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RE: Netanyahu Buckles In Showdown With Iran

Sat Sep 29, 2012 6:06 pm

Quoting DocLightning (Reply 8):
Quoting DeltaMD90 (Reply 5):
Why does everyone assume he'd actually use a nuke? Minus that horribly out of context, misquoted "wipe Israel off the map line"

I don't think it's misquoted or out of context.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mahmoud...and_Israel#Translation_controversy
Ironically I have never flown a Delta MD-90 :)
 
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DocLightning
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RE: Netanyahu Buckles In Showdown With Iran

Sat Sep 29, 2012 7:34 pm

Quoting DeltaMD90 (Reply 10):
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mahmoud...and_Israel#Translation_controversy

Yes, when he said that, I don't think he actually meant he was going to carpet-nuke Israel, but that his wish was for the nation and government of Israel to vanish and be replaced with something else.

If you are an Israeli, those two ends are not dissimilar.
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pu
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RE: Netanyahu Buckles In Showdown With Iran

Sat Sep 29, 2012 9:40 pm

Quoting DeltaMD90 (Reply 5):

Why does everyone assume he'd actually use a nuke?

A nuke means invading Iran becomes virtually unthinkable. This is their main purpose, securing themselves against military invasion. Actually using a nuke is suicide for the Iranian regime.
.
It is the immunity from invasion bought by a nuclear deterrent in Iran that REALLY sours Netanyahu on this topic. Doug Feith, Paul Wolfowitz, Bill Kristol and Michael Ledeen picked the the wrong country to invade in their eternal quest to aggresively fight the enemies of Israel.


...this situation of a more vulnerable Israeli position is one of the many less advertised consequences of Bush's wars...

Pu
 
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Aesma
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RE: Netanyahu Buckles In Showdown With Iran

Sun Sep 30, 2012 12:15 am

Quoting KiwiRob (Reply 9):
I wonder why we the west haven't drawn a red line under Israel's own nuclear program, it would appear fair to me that if Iran isn't allowed nukes Israel shouldn't either.

Indeed, Iran (and many other countries, should I add) wants some nukes because Israel has many.
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thegreatRDU
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RE: Netanyahu Buckles In Showdown With Iran

Sun Sep 30, 2012 1:56 am

Good for Obama, I know he's on edge and really knows that it's definitely in not just America's but the rest of the world's best interest to strike Iran. This will lead to WW3 and after all who wants to pay $10 a gallon
Look, Iran has signed the NPT Israel hasn't
Iran is a really peaceful country in the sense that they have not invaded any other country

But god Netanyahu has got stop this madness
And we as Americans have to fight Zionism or I truly believe it will be the end of us

I understand Obama has an election and is posturing but he can truly shake things up and leave a lasting legacy since he all but secured his second term

Quoting SOBHI51 (Reply 1):
You can never put Peace and Netanyahu in the same phrase.

Amen!

Quoting ImperialEagle (Reply 4):
Who is threatening whom? BN is simply reacting to all the threats from MA. I would expect nothing less from my government if some nut case kept threatening our inhiliation.

Haha because he threatened to "Wipe Israel Off the map!" right?   
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DocLightning
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RE: Netanyahu Buckles In Showdown With Iran

Sun Sep 30, 2012 4:33 am

Quoting pu (Reply 12):
A nuke means invading Iran becomes virtually unthinkable.

It becomes a battle of wills. Do they nuke our troops and their own country? Or not...? And we have more nukes than they do.
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connies4ever
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RE: Netanyahu Buckles In Showdown With Iran

Sun Sep 30, 2012 6:51 am

Quoting DeltaMD90 (Reply 5):
Why does everyone assume he'd actually use a nuke? Minus that horribly out of context, misquoted "wipe Israel off the map line"

Which could actually mean Mr A was indirectly referring to a one-state solution: Palestine.

Quoting DocLightning (Reply 8):
I don't think it's misquoted or out of context. I also don't think he actually believes that he could possibly succeed at such a project.

See above.

Quoting KiwiRob (Reply 9):
I wonder why we the west haven't drawn a red line under Israel's own nuclear program, it would appear fair to me that if Iran isn't allowed nukes Israel shouldn't either.

I overall agree and I think Israel's nuclear arsenal sort of underlies the various terror acts going on at the margins: everyone understands that they cannot defeat Israel in a 'normal' war, so they resort to irritating Israel continually and hopefully goad them into doing something truly awful.

As for BN, I view him as the biggest threat to peace in the ME region. His own military seem to be very much against a strike. Yet he has the audacity to bite the hand that keeps Israel afloat.
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TheCommodore
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RE: Netanyahu Buckles In Showdown With Iran

Sun Sep 30, 2012 7:49 am

Quoting maxthrusta330 (Thread starter):
It also truly defies logic:

He's what I would call a school yard bully, but a bully who's to gutless to actually do any bullying himself, he get his mates to do it for him, and then appears to be blameless and covered in Teflon.

Quoting maxthrusta330 (Thread starter):
Now that Netanyahu's finally tasted some humble pie, hopefully we won't have to hear so much "noise" from this odious little man.

It's a bit like a pimple on the end of your nose, you know, the one that takes ages to "mature" and "pop" just when you've been invited to a family reunion or the like. Everyone see's it !

Quoting flyingturtle (Reply 2):
If sanctions do not work, push the UN for some more.

And when all that fails, run to the POTUS and pull on his shirt tails.

Quoting kaitak (Reply 3):
I think Obama is doing the right thing and I think that the policy of squeezing Iran through economic sanctions is already having an effect (even though the Iranians won't admit this, of course).

I generally agree with Obama, but not on this issue.

And I think, what you can safely say about the Iranians and sanctions is, that it will turn another generation against the west, that's all.

Sanction rarely have ANY positive outcome, either way.

Quoting ImperialEagle (Reply 4):
Who is threatening whom?

You don't know ?
Seems' quite clear to many

Quoting ImperialEagle (Reply 4):
The last time the Jewish people waited around for the "approval" of the non-Jewish world for help, over 6 million died.

So what are you saying ?
You want to kill millions of Iranians, and perhaps millions of Israelis, and containment a large part of the earth, just to show otherwise ?

Quoting ImperialEagle (Reply 4):
MA is just as big a threat to them it's just that, as usual, Israel becomes everyone's scapegoat.

Um, where are all these other countries you claim to be threatened..... strangely, they seem to be silent.

Quoting DeltaMD90 (Reply 5):
Minus that horribly out of context, misquoted "wipe Israel off the map line"

How many times have we ALL been through this..... and they still continue to bring it up ad nausea !

Quoting Aesma (Reply 13):
Indeed, Iran (and many other countries, should I add) wants some nukes because Israel has many.

And this is the entire crux of the matter. If its ok for some, then why not others ?
You just cant say "yes" to some and "no" to others. It is just impossible.

Quoting thegreatRDU (Reply 14):
And we as Americans have to fight Zionism or I truly believe it will be the end of us

  

Quoting DocLightning (Reply 15):
It becomes a battle of wills. Do they nuke our troops and their own country? Or not...? And we have more nukes than they do.

Ok, but we don't want to turn it into an arms race. Gee we've been there already.

[Edited 2012-09-30 00:54:26]
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Kiwirob
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RE: Netanyahu Buckles In Showdown With Iran

Sun Sep 30, 2012 8:21 am

Quoting ImperialEagle (Reply 4):
The last time the Jewish people waited around for the "approval" of the non-Jewish world for help, over 6 million died.

That's not entirely true, that 6 million also included Roma, homosexuals, and political dissidents, I don't know why the world lets israel get away with claiming all holocaust victims were jews.
 
GDB
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RE: Netanyahu Buckles In Showdown With Iran

Sun Sep 30, 2012 8:27 am

What really spiked his guns was the complete lack of enthusiasm of the Chiefs Of Staff of the IDF, for an attack on Iran.
They, after all, would have to plan and implement an attack, would have to weigh up the pros and cons, likely Iranian response, international implications, the chance of anything more than a short term, limited, effect on the Iranian bomb project.
And they were deeply sceptical of the whole idea.

Also, Netty, with his not very well disguised push for the GOP in the 2012 election, has taken a political risk that he might well regret. To add to his attempts to bounce to the US into a massively risky policy.
In that sense, the USA could be forgiven for telling Netty, 'we pay your bills, butt out'.
 
johns624
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RE: Netanyahu Buckles In Showdown With Iran

Sun Sep 30, 2012 1:19 pm

Quoting KiwiRob (Reply 18):
I don't know why the world lets israel get away with claiming all holocaust victims were jews.

Because they have a better PR machine.
 
ltbewr
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RE: Netanyahu Buckles In Showdown With Iran

Sun Sep 30, 2012 1:46 pm

Let us not forget that Bibi Netanyahu has to show a very aggressive policy as to the rest of the ME, and especially to Iran, due to Jewish history, internal Israeli politics and to keep his job. Ahmadinejad also plays an aggressive policy for Iranian pride and position in the ME/Islamic world for domestic Iranian consumption, to show that Iran will not accept Western control of their country, people and their oil.

As some others noted, I suspect there was serious negotiations between the USA and Israeli respective State Departments, between President Obama and PM Netanyahu including at least a 1 hour phone call the Friday before they both appeared before the UN to present carefully worded, firm but not angry presentation of support against possible nuke bomb development in Iran and their support of forces in Lebanon, Syria and the Palestinian Territories against Israel. For several years it has been alleged that the USA and Israel have been involved in 'cyber war' as well assassinations of key scientists in Iran to disrupt nuke bomb development.

Hopefully some of the worst risks of a conflict has been reduced to a low simmer, but still I would not count out Israel doing something in Syria to cut off Iran's support of anti-Israeli forces there.
 
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RE: Netanyahu Buckles In Showdown With Iran

Sun Sep 30, 2012 2:42 pm

Quoting thegreatRDU (Reply 14):

But god Netanyahu has got stop this madness
And we as Americans have to fight Zionism or I truly believe it will be the end of us

It would be amazing to see what would happen if somebody dug up concrete evidence proving once and for all that both the Zionists and Muslims were flat wrong about the origins and future of life on this planet (well, actually I believe we already have but that's another thread).

Their arguments against each other would be reduced to very practical ones like who owns what land etc. that at least have some sliver of a chance of being resolved rationally once the supernatural content is pared away. Or at least seen for what they are by a world that would be much less sympathetic to either side's case.

As it is, with both sides believing in divine support for their positions and the continuation of this struggle into eternity there can't possibly be compromise on earth.
 
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pu
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RE: Netanyahu Buckles In Showdown With Iran

Sun Sep 30, 2012 3:16 pm

Quoting SmittyOne (Reply 22):
Their arguments against each other would be reduced to very practical ones like who owns what land etc. that at least have some sliver of a chance of being resolved rationally once the supernatural content is pared away

My analysis after decades of intense unbiased study (kidding) is that they really aren't using the "supernatural content" insofar as their war with each other goes.

Palestinians are pissed off because Israel was created at the end of WW2 without their permission, Muslims worldwide sympathise with them, and Israel's point is that they are a soveriegn nation formed by UN mandate no less.

Quoting SmittyOne (Reply 22):

Or at least seen for what they are by a world that would be much less sympathetic to either side's case.

      Yes!
Basically its the 1.5 billion Muslims versus ~300 million Americans/Israelis, with religion being the major bond for each side, in global terms. It is a little odd to me that Christians in America so forcefully back Israel...
.
and even if through some miracle (!) the 2 state solution comes about, what to do about Jerusalem and the Dome of the Rock / Temple Mount is going to be a ...problem....

Pu

[first post with added animation!]

[Edited 2012-09-30 08:26:21]
 
ImperialEagle
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RE: Netanyahu Buckles In Showdown With Iran

Sun Sep 30, 2012 3:26 pm

Quoting KiwiRob (Reply 18):
also included Roma, homosexuals, and political dissidents

Trying to marginalize the numbers of Jews murdered is just another way to try to de-legitimize the situation.

Just the usual level of anti-semitism that goes on with this blog.

Quoting TheCommodore (Reply 17):
to many

Many? You mean the HAND-FULL of the usual Jew-haters on this blog?

Quoting TheCommodore (Reply 17):
strangely, they seem to be silent

Nothing strange about it. The Saudis and the other oil producing Gulf States are scared to death MA will do the same thing to them that Iraq did to Kuwait, but they don't have the balls to come right out and say it lest they appear to take a stand against their fellow Muslims. It is much easier to try to make Israel the "bad guy"----as usual. BUT, behind closed-doors, at the highest levels of government, you better believe they are working with the United States AND Israel because if the s#$t hits the fan, it will be the U.S. and Israel that will be expected to do all the "dirty-work" AS USUAL. (If the oil is to be protected, of course).

I think it's about time the Muslim nations of the Gulf showed some back-bone and stood-up to Ahmadenijad, draw their own "red-line" and show him who's boss! Instead of paving their streets with gold and flying around in golden flying palaces, the so call "royalty" should spend their money instead of ours if they need protection!

Quoting DeltaMD90 (Reply 5):
out of context, misquoted "wipe Israel off the map line"

Not worth a reply, as usual.

Quoting thegreatRDU (Reply 14):
Haha because he threatened to "Wipe Israel Off the map!" right?

Oh, let me guess, another Jew-hater right?  
"If everything seems under control, you're just not going fast enough!"
 
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Tugger
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RE: Netanyahu Buckles In Showdown With Iran

Sun Sep 30, 2012 3:45 pm

Quoting KiwiRob (Reply 18):
That's not entirely true, that 6 million also included Roma, homosexuals, and political dissidents, I don't know why the world lets israel get away with claiming all holocaust victims were jews.
Quoting johns624 (Reply 20):
Because they have a better PR machine.

Don't take this the wrong way, I respect the two of you here and what you post normally, but not this.

It's not "The Jews PR machine" or the world letting anyone "get away with" anything, it's that people like you two (obviously including many others, I am only singling you out because you are the ones that posted here) are uninformed and do not know history. You need to educate yourself instead just listening to others and echoing what they say and to make poorly chosen arguments and statements.

The truth is the Nazi's exterminated 11 million or more people, not "just" 6 million.

Quote:
over one million Jewish children were killed in the Holocaust, as were approximately two million Jewish women and three million Jewish men.

Some scholars maintain that the definition of the Holocaust should also include the Nazis' genocide of millions of people in other groups, including Romani, communists, Soviet prisoners of war, Polish and Soviet civilians, homosexuals, people with disabilities, Jehovah's Witnesses and other political and religious opponents, which occurred regardless of whether they were of German or non-German ethnic origin. This was the most common definition from the end of WWII to the 1960s. Using this definition, the total number of Holocaust victims is between 11 million and 17 million people. Henry Friedlander argues that "the Nazis applied a consistent and inclusive policy of extermination only against three groups of human beings: the handicapped, Jews, and Gypsies."
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Holocaust

Quote:
Of the 11 million people killed during the Holocaust, six million were Polish citizens. Three million were Polish Jews and another three million were Polish Christians and Catholics. Most of the remaining mortal victims were from other countries including Hungary, Czechoslovakia, Ukraine, Russia, Holland, France and even Germany.
http://www.holocaustforgotten.com/non-jewishvictims.htm

Quote:
But Jews were not the only group singled out for persecution by Hitler’s Nazi regime. As many as one-half million Gypsies, at least 250,000 mentally or physically disabled persons, and more than three million Soviet prisoners-of-war also fell victim to Nazi genocide. Jehovah’s Witnesses, homosexuals, Social Democrats, Communists, partisans, trade unionists, Polish intelligentsia and other undesirables were also victims of the hate and aggression carried out by the Nazis.
http://www.auschwitz.dk/docu/faq.htm

Tugg
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mham001
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RE: Netanyahu Buckles In Showdown With Iran

Sun Sep 30, 2012 4:01 pm

Quoting thegreatRDU (Reply 14):
Iran is a really peaceful country in the sense that they have not invaded any other country

LOL. They just pay proxies to do their dirty work.
 
flyingturtle
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RE: Netanyahu Buckles In Showdown With Iran

Sun Sep 30, 2012 4:06 pm

Quoting ImperialEagle (Reply 24):
Many? You mean the HAND-FULL of the usual Jew-haters on this blog?

I love how the Antisemitism club is swung. If you aren't in favor of Israel's existence, then...

Truth is, Israel needs to be razed and newly built elsewhere. One cannot deny that that state was born with a birth defect. It is a purulous wound that continues to haunt Middle East politics.

I like to cite this:

"The next year, a three-man delegation was sent to inspect the plateau. Its high elevation gave it a temperate climate, making it suitable for European settlement. However, the observers found a dangerous land filled with lions and other creatures. Moreover, it was populated by a large number of Maasai who did not seem at all amenable to an influx of Europeans."

It was a Jewish delegation visiting Uganda to look if the country would be suitable for a Jewish state.



David
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ImperialEagle
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RE: Netanyahu Buckles In Showdown With Iran

Sun Sep 30, 2012 4:44 pm

Quoting flyingturtle (Reply 27):
If you aren't in favor of Israel's existence, then...

News Flash-------Israel is a Jewish nation!  
Quoting flyingturtle (Reply 27):
Israel needs to be razed and newly built elsewhere.

Such as Switzerland perhaps?
"If everything seems under control, you're just not going fast enough!"
 
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SOBHI51
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RE: Netanyahu Buckles In Showdown With Iran

Sun Sep 30, 2012 5:04 pm

Quoting ImperialEagle (Reply 24):
Nothing strange about it. The Saudis and the other oil producing Gulf States are scared to death MA will do the same thing to them that Iraq did to Kuwait, but they don't have the balls to come right out and say it lest they appear to take a stand against their fellow Muslims. It is much easier to try to make Israel the "bad guy"----as usual. BUT, behind closed-doors, at the highest levels of government, you better believe they are working with the United States AND Israel because if the s#$t hits the fan, it will be the U.S. and Israel that will be expected to do all the "dirty-work" AS USUAL. (If the oil is to be protected, of course).

Did not know you get a recording of those meetings.

Quoting ImperialEagle (Reply 24):
Trying to marginalize the numbers of Jews murdered is just another way to try to de-legitimize the situation.

Just the usual level of anti-semitism that goes on with this blog.

He is just saying facts, there is no denial that a huge number of Jews lost there lives. Now if it's 6 or 11 million your choice, your problem was with Nazi Germany not the Palestinians, why you did not create Israel in Germany?

Quoting ImperialEagle (Reply 24):
Oh, let me guess, another Jew-hater right?  
Quoting ImperialEagle (Reply 24):
Many? You mean the HAND-FULL of the usual Jew-haters on this blog?
Quoting ImperialEagle (Reply 24):
Just the usual level of anti-semitism that goes on with this blog.

Here we go again, those who do not agree with you are always anti Semite, boring.

Quoting ImperialEagle (Reply 24):
Instead of paving their streets with gold

Where? I could use some gold.

[Edited 2012-09-30 10:10:24]
I am against any terrorist acts committed under the name of Islam
 
smittyone
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RE: Netanyahu Buckles In Showdown With Iran

Sun Sep 30, 2012 5:09 pm

Quoting pu (Reply 23):
My analysis after decades of intense unbiased study (kidding) is that they really aren't using the "supernatural content" insofar as their war with each other goes.

I agree with you, and with the rest of your post that it is the bystanders lining up behind their favorite team that will preclude a rational solution to this mess!
 
Cadet985
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RE: Netanyahu Buckles In Showdown With Iran

Sun Sep 30, 2012 5:24 pm

Quoting KiwiRob (Reply 18):
That's not entirely true, that 6 million also included Roma, homosexuals, and political dissidents, I don't know why the world lets israel get away with claiming all holocaust victims were jews.

I'm afraid you are mistaken. There were 6 million JEWS killed during the Holocaust. If you were to add up the Roma, homosexuals, dissidents, gypsies, etc, there were 9 million of them killed. The Jews were the largest group killed because Hitler wanted the total annihilation of the Jewish people. Thank goodness he failed.

But to the topic of the thread...how has Netanyahu "buckled?" Has he said that he will not strike Iran? No, he hasn't. What then? He failed to get support from the US and the global community at this time. I don't consider that buckling. He wanted to try to force Obama's hand and failed...doesn't mean he buckled. By my interpretation of the term, to buckle would be to give in to pressure. Netanyahu did not. He has never taken the possibility of a unilateral strike off the table. To me, to buckle means to pretty much say "Aw, $%^& it," and give up. Can someone PLEASE show me how Netanyahu has given up on Iran?

So...he might not yet have international support. Things can change very quickly.

I personally hope nothing happens with Iran until February, as I'll be in Israel in December-January.

Marc
 
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SOBHI51
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RE: Netanyahu Buckles In Showdown With Iran

Sun Sep 30, 2012 5:34 pm

Quoting Cadet985 (Reply 31):
So...he might not yet have international support. Things can change very quickly.

Those nuclear sites in Iran are deep inside mountains and underground, only a nuclear strike might manage to destroy them, i do not see how Bibi can get an international support for a nuclear holocaust.
I am against any terrorist acts committed under the name of Islam
 
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DeltaMD90
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RE: Netanyahu Buckles In Showdown With Iran

Sun Sep 30, 2012 5:45 pm

Quoting ImperialEagle (Reply 24):
Quoting DeltaMD90 (Reply 5):
out of context, misquoted "wipe Israel off the map line"

Not worth a reply, as usual.

Quoting thegreatRDU (Reply 14):
Haha because he threatened to "Wipe Israel Off the map!" right?

Oh, let me guess, another Jew-hater right?  

Jew hater?! Are you kidding me!?

I am VERY pro-Israel. They've had a tough ride and I sympathize for them. A good friend of mine is in the IDF. But just because I'm pro-Israel doesn't mean I'm stuck on auto-pilot... I have a right to disagree with them. I think their current course of action is flawed and is really hurting their (and the US's) standing in the world.

I also feel for the Palestinian people. I think the Israeli government's actions are legitimately meant to keep the Israelis safer but I think they've gone down a bad road doing it, one that just breeds more resentment.

Because I am pro-Israel, I feel that I should call out their behavior when I think it's very destructive and will lead to bad things for them. Unconditional support is a terrible idea in any scenario. I guess if that makes me a "Jew hater" I'll take that over being a "Jew lover who encourages them to get into a war and have thousands/millions of people killed"
Ironically I have never flown a Delta MD-90 :)
 
mham001
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RE: Netanyahu Buckles In Showdown With Iran

Sun Sep 30, 2012 6:07 pm

Quoting SOBHI51 (Reply 32):
Those nuclear sites in Iran are deep inside mountains and underground, only a nuclear strike might manage to destroy them,

Actually, just burying them for a short time would be a significant setback, although not program ending.
 
Kiwirob
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RE: Netanyahu Buckles In Showdown With Iran

Sun Sep 30, 2012 6:12 pm

Quoting ImperialEagle (Reply 24):
Trying to marginalize the numbers of Jews murdered is just another way to try to de-legitimize the situation.

The problem is just because the Germans had a good crack at exterminating all the jews in Europe did not give the rest of the world the right to force a homeland form them on the Palestinians.

Quoting flyingturtle (Reply 27):
Moreover, it was populated by a large number of Maasai who did not seem at all amenable to an influx of Europeans."

I'm surprised the same bunnies though the Palestinians would have more amenable to an influx of Europeans, turns out they didn't do there homework very well.

Quoting Cadet985 (Reply 31):
The Jews were the largest group killed because Hitler wanted the total annihilation of the Jewish people. Thank goodness he failed.

Hitler also wanted total annihilation of the Roma and he damn near accomplished it, from all that I have read a fr larger percentage of Roma were exterminated than jews, the problem is the Roma didn't have a voice nor a bunch of wealthy people of the same religion around the world rooting for them.

The entire problem in the Middle East comes back to the establishment of Israel, had this not happened I very much doubt we would be having this discussion about whether or not Iran should be allowed the bomb. The creation of israel was a huge mistake and in hindsight probably the single worst decision of the last century.
 
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SOBHI51
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RE: Netanyahu Buckles In Showdown With Iran

Sun Sep 30, 2012 6:14 pm

Quoting mham001 (Reply 34):
Actually, just burying them for a short time would be a significant setback, although not program ending.

So, endangering a WWIII just for a delay action? Not sure i like this choice.
I am against any terrorist acts committed under the name of Islam
 
Ken777
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RE: Netanyahu Buckles In Showdown With Iran

Sun Sep 30, 2012 7:06 pm

Quoting maxthrusta330 (Thread starter):
How shockingly arrogant it is for the leader of a tiny little country to attempt to dictate the foreign policy of a super power like the United States by trying to force the hand of the US just before a presidential election.

I believe Netanyahu's actions were as much an effort to help Romney as it was to push Obama. It is clearly in Netanyahu's interest to have a President Etch-A-Sketch in office, especially when compared to Obama.

Quoting maxthrusta330 (Thread starter):
How shockingly arrogant it is for the leader of a tiny little country to attempt to dictate the foreign policy of a super power like the United States by trying to force the hand of the US just before a presidential election.

It was all politics IMO and it clearly didn't work, except for the militant right in the US who would go for another ME War under the thinnest of circumstances.

Quoting kaitak (Reply 3):
Romney as US president would have been a gift to the Israelis, who've never really liked Obama anyway

First I believe that there are a lot of responsible Israelis who do like Obama. Look at those who are not totally militant and you see those who understand that Obama has supported Israel.

In terms of Romney, he might be a gift to Netanyahu and others who are excessively militant, but in terms of Israel as a whole he would be in uninformed disaster.

Quoting maxthrusta330 (Reply 6):
The whole world knows that Israel is a military lightweight without US support.

Israel has obviously benefitted from the trillions we have provided to them over the years, but the reality is that their troops and leaders can be explosive and powerful if there is actually a war.

Quoting maxthrusta330 (Reply 6):
Simply put, if the US refuses to support an Israeli attack on Iran, Israel is too weak to take on Iran on its own

They would not do anything stupid (like we did in Iraq) but I can see them hitting selected targets with precision.

IIRC, Ahmadinejad is ending his time in office as he is only allowed to serve two terms. (   )

It is more important, IMO, to focus on where Iran will go after Ahmadinejad leaves.
 
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DeltaMD90
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RE: Netanyahu Buckles In Showdown With Iran

Sun Sep 30, 2012 7:33 pm

Quoting Ken777 (Reply 37):
It is more important, IMO, to focus on where Iran will go after Ahmadinejad leaves.

Probably the same direction as long as the same Ayatollahs keep running things
Ironically I have never flown a Delta MD-90 :)
 
maxthrusta330
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RE: Netanyahu Buckles In Showdown With Iran

Sun Sep 30, 2012 8:42 pm

Quoting ImperialEagle (Reply 24):

Just the usual level of anti-semitism that goes on with this blog.

Change the record will you... I like many others am sick of people being labeled "anti-semites" simply because they say something about Israel that pro-Israeli's dislike. Stop with the victim card already, it is old, tired, pretentious and makes people who try to use it look ridiculously DESPERATE TO HIDE BEHIND SOMETHING. It is no longer possible to convince people by attempting to use the logic of "we were victims - if you pick on us you are evil" it is pathetic.

Quoting Cadet985 (Reply 31):
He wanted to try to force Obama's hand and failed...doesn't mean he buckled. By my interpretation of the term, to buckle would be to give in to pressure. Netanyahu did not.

Simply put - Netanyahu tired to call Obama's and the worlds bluff by threatening to launch a military attack on Iran. Note the time frame for such an attack was widely reported as being likely to take place before the US Presidential elections in November 2012. After Netanyahu threw a hissyfit    due to being unable to manipulate Obama and the Unites States government into obeying his commands in supporting a near term military strike on Iran, he announced to the world in his recent UN address that the time frame for a possible attack on Iran had suddenly switched from being "imminent" to being at least 6-9 months into the future. There lies the "Buckling". Netanyahu's flip flopping around clearly shows that his previous claims regarding Iran's civilian nuclear energy program lacked any basis in fact, because if they did have a basis in fact, and Israel was genuinely concerned about it's "existence" he wouldn't flip flop on such a serious issue. So to cut it short - he tired to call the US President's bluff, he failed miserably, and he conveniently extended the time frame for a possible attack on Iran. He buckled.

Do yourself a favor and come to terms with the FACT that Benjamin Netanyahu is an abrasive, obnoxious, paranoid, warmongering, psychopathic cretin (or cretan, as in Cretanyahu) who would be scared to even look at Iran on the map, let alone attack it, if it weren't for US backing. Without US backing Israel is nothing. The fact that US President stood firm and refused to be manipulated, causing the Israeli Prime Minister to BUCKLE, exposes the weakness of Israel's very foundations.

Is it not bewildering that the government of an entity that itself was founded as a result of the "suffering victims" of Europe's Jewish community during WWII, is now threatening to attack a nearby country, based on the mistranslation of a speech? If this plot was presented as a movie script in Hollywood it would be laughed out the door! That's the amazing thing - the Israeli case for wanting to attack Iran is absolutely ridiculous, and yet the genuinely amazing thing is that more people don't laugh in Netanyahu's face once he starts spouting his tired old venom on Iran. Everyone knows, including the Israeli's themselves, that they will get a hiding of biblical proportions if they try to take on Iran single-handedly. So what do they do? They play the "victim" of course! They dust off that embarrassingly tired old act as part of a pathetic, feeble and cringe-worthy attempt to rally international, particularly US support for a baseless attack on Iran. Disgraceful.
 
ImperialEagle
Posts: 2238
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RE: Netanyahu Buckles In Showdown With Iran

Sun Sep 30, 2012 9:39 pm

Quoting SOBHI51 (Reply 29):
Did not know you get a recording of those meetings.

So you truly believe things such as that never happen? Seriously?

Quoting SOBHI51 (Reply 29):
Here we go again

Yes, you ARE an anti-semite, that is your right. Own it!

Quoting Cadet985 (Reply 31):
Can someone PLEASE show me how Netanyahu has given up on Iran

Thankyou!

Quoting KiwiRob (Reply 35):
give the rest of the world the right to force a homeland form them on the Palestinians.

Since you are obviously in need of a history lesson let me advise you that you can pick-up a world history book at any library and see for yourself that the British offered the Palestinians a much larger and fertile piece of land than they offered the Jews. They offered the Jews an arrid desert. The big difference was that the Jews took the offer and the Palestinians didn't because their Arab bretheren convinced them to hold off until they could push the Jews into the sea and then everybody could partake of the spoils. Well, oopsie, it didn't work. It is not the fault of the Jewish people that the Palestinians "bet the wrong horse" or that for years thereafter they sought out terrorists to represent them. Why was there no whining and crying when the now deceased King of Jordan massacred Palestinians by the thousands back in 1970 and pushed them out of Jordan? Because he got sick of their terrorism as well.
Now that is documented FACT.

Quoting maxthrusta330 (Reply 39):
Change the record will you... I like many others am sick of people being labeled "anti-semites" simply because they say something about Israel that pro-Israeli's dislike. Stop with the victim card already, it is old, tired, pretentious and makes people who try to use it look ridiculously DESPERATE TO HIDE BEHIND SOMETHING. It is no longer possible to convince people by attempting to use the logic of "we were victims - if you pick on us you are evil" it is pathetic.

You ARE an anti-semite-------own it. It's o.k. you are entitled to your opinion just like everybody else. Clearly you could also use some anger-management sessions.

Quoting maxthrusta330 (Reply 39):
Do yourself a favor and come to terms with the FACT that Benjamin Netanyahu is an abrasive, obnoxious, paranoid, warmongering, psychopathic cretin (or cretan, as in Cretanyahu) who would be scared to even look at Iran on the map, let alone attack it, if it weren't for US backing

This rant just proves to me that when you posted this thread you had no other purpose that to stir-up anti-Israel resentments.
I am so sorry for you and all the other haters. It must be terrible to go through life with all this poison built-up in your system. Pity.


As I said before, Netanyahu is doing what he was elected to do------protect Israel. So be it!

Am chai Yisroel!
"If everything seems under control, you're just not going fast enough!"
 
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AirPacific747
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RE: Netanyahu Buckles In Showdown With Iran

Sun Sep 30, 2012 9:54 pm

Quoting flyingturtle (Reply 27):
Truth is, Israel needs to be razed and newly built elsewhere. One cannot deny that that state was born with a birth defect. It is a purulous wound that continues to haunt Middle East politics.

Or maybe Israels neighbours should just learn to accept the existence of the jewish state. Many European countries have lost big territories during wars but have moved on since anyway.
I do think that a two state solution where Palestine will be created would be the best solution though.
 
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pu
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RE: Netanyahu Buckles In Showdown With Iran

Sun Sep 30, 2012 9:55 pm

Quoting ImperialEagle (Reply 40):

the British offered the Palestinians a much larger and fertile piece of land than they offered the Jews.

Is there a reason why the people then living in Southwest Asia should respect the British judgment on who should live where?
or
put another way,
Why does the fact the British wanted a Jewish homeland mean the Palestinians should accept their judgment?
.
I am not trying to pick sides, I am trying to understand your side.

thanks

Pu
Btw, your historical narrative seems accurate enough ...but why is it expected that the Arabs should honour British wishes?
 
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SOBHI51
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RE: Netanyahu Buckles In Showdown With Iran

Sun Sep 30, 2012 10:20 pm

Quoting ImperialEagle (Reply 40):
Yes, you ARE an anti-semite, that is your right. Own it!

And who are you to decide what i am or to try to run somebody else life. Just another person who when he can not find a response you start accusations and name calling. Again this is so boring to put nicely. Again i dare you to prove that i am an anti-Semite. I am anti Israel that i confess, so don't confuse the two.

Quoting ImperialEagle (Reply 40):
This rant just proves to me that when you posted this thread you had no other purpose that to stir-up anti-Israel resentments.
I am so sorry for you and all the other haters. It must be terrible to go through life with all this poison built-up in your system. Pity.

So now we are not allowed to be anti Israel? Nobody needs to stir anti-Israel resentments the actions of the leaders of Israel does that.
I do not go about my life hating somebody or a country just for the sake of it, there actions do create that feeling, since 1948 Israel has done nothing so i could not hate them.

Quoting ImperialEagle (Reply 40):
Netanyahu is doing what he was elected to do------protect Israel. So be it!

Honestly don't you think peace is the best solution to protect Israel?

Quoting ImperialEagle (Reply 40):
So you truly believe things such as that never happen? Seriously?

I was just wondering how do you know what is said behind closed doors. Seriously.
I am against any terrorist acts committed under the name of Islam
 
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Aaron747
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RE: Netanyahu Buckles In Showdown With Iran

Sun Sep 30, 2012 10:25 pm

Oh where to start?

Quoting pu (Reply 23):
It is a little odd to me that Christians in America so forcefully back Israel...

Yes, especially since many of them were so busy being genuinely anti-Jewish just a couple generations ago. Ask Sandy Koufax and Al Rosen what kind of disgusting jeers they routinely received as openly Jewish major league baseball players who declined to play on the high holidays.

Quoting ImperialEagle (Reply 24):
Just the usual level of anti-semitism that goes on with this blog.

This is a bit over the top. I'm Jewish and have no qualms with what anybody is saying in this thread aside from factual inaccuracies.

Quoting KiwiRob (Reply 35):
The problem is just because the Germans had a good crack at exterminating all the jews in Europe did not give the rest of the world the right to force a homeland form them on the Palestinians.

Have to look at the context of the time. The British had lost their grip on the colonized world and were struggling with postwar reconstruction, the UN was newly-created and coming to grips with its lack of ability to do anything beyond advisory level policy-setting, and the US was still a hotbed of anti-semitic sentiment where behind closed doors many policymakers were hoping the American Jewish diaspora would start to relocate.

Quoting maxthrusta330 (Reply 39):
They dust off that embarrassingly tired old act as part of a pathetic, feeble and cringe-worthy attempt to rally international, particularly US support for a baseless attack on Iran.

Right-wing Israeli politicians do overplay the victim card, don't speak out about the embarassing histrionics of the Orthodox settlers, and yada yada yada...but that doesn't change the situation that is *entirely separate* from their behavior, which is: what is anyone going to do about a nuclear-capable Iran? The entire region is not on board with this prospect, particularly the majority Sunni states like Saudi Arabia, that have their own demographic challenges afoot if Shia Iran suddenly becomes much more powerful. You have to look at the big picture beyond Israel. A nuclear-armed Iran is intolerable not for Israel's sake, but because it destabilizes the entire region - which nobody wants. Not to mention that the Iranians have provided known assistance to terrorist groups and adding fissile materials to the mix is probably not the best idea.

Quoting maxthrusta330 (Reply 39):
Do yourself a favor and come to terms with the FACT that Benjamin Netanyahu is an abrasive, obnoxious, paranoid, warmongering, psychopathic cretin (or cretan, as in Cretanyahu) who would be scared to even look at Iran on the map, let alone attack it, if it weren't for US backing.

Or come to terms with the fact that he and his loose coalition are trying to retain power - and this is one of the issues they are using to do so. That's how realpolitik works.

Quoting maxthrusta330 (Reply 39):
The fact that US President stood firm and refused to be manipulated, causing the Israeli Prime Minister to BUCKLE, exposes the weakness of Israel's very foundations.

Well not really if you consider Israeli politics the last 20 years have been a revolving door of changing leaders, scandals, larger than life populism, and failed coalitions. While the Knesset is pretty consistent you never have an Israeli prime minister singing the same tune for long. Bibi criticizes Obama on one hand while his Defense Minister and ex-PM Ehud Barak sings his praises on the other. This is business as usual in Israeli politics - not a sign of weak foundations.
If you need someone to blame / throw a rock in the air / you'll hit someone guilty
 
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DeltaMD90
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RE: Netanyahu Buckles In Showdown With Iran

Sun Sep 30, 2012 10:29 pm

Quoting ImperialEagle (Reply 40):
you ARE an anti-semite
Quoting ImperialEagle (Reply 40):
You ARE an anti-semite

Dude, do you even know what that means? Simply disagreeing with the way the Israeli government does things doesn't make someone an anti-Semite.

Quoting ImperialEagle (Reply 40):
Clearly you could also use some anger-management sessions.

Oh the irony

Quoting SOBHI51 (Reply 43):
Honestly don't you think peace is the best solution to protect Israel?

   Probably is the least anti-Semitic stance someone can take, honestly
Ironically I have never flown a Delta MD-90 :)
 
flyingturtle
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RE: Netanyahu Buckles In Showdown With Iran

Sun Sep 30, 2012 10:38 pm

Quoting ImperialEagle (Reply 28):
Such as Switzerland perhaps?

Surely you are in need of a history lesson. Could you point out some similarities between Israel and Switzerland?

Quoting ImperialEagle (Reply 40):
Since you are obviously in need of a history lesson let me advise you that you can pick-up a world history book at any library and see for yourself that the British offered the Palestinians a much larger and fertile piece of land than they offered the Jews. They offered the Jews an arrid desert. The big difference was that the Jews took the offer and the Palestinians didn't because their Arab bretheren convinced them to hold off until they could push the Jews into the sea and then everybody could partake of the spoils.



Why would the Palestinians ever accept such an "offer"?

Perhaps in this manner: "I need to have your home, and I am going to have it. Though, I don't want you to be homeless, so I offer you half of your home. Consider it wisely. You could end up homeless."

The British made a serious error, and that was the unrestricted movement of Jews into Palestine. When enough Jews where there, the hands of the British - and those of the UN - were tied. They had no alternative left, they had to distribute the land between the Arabs and the Jews in some manner.

The Irgun and the Stern gang then bombed the British out of the country.

Quoting AirPacific747 (Reply 41):
Or maybe Israels neighbours should just learn to accept the existence of the jewish state. Many European countries have lost big territories during wars but have moved on since anyway.
I do think that a two state solution where Palestine will be created would be the best solution though.

A two state solution is already impossible. It is highly improbable that Israel would ever allow a viable Palestinian state beside it - especially one that can stand on its own during an armed conflict with Israel. The only solution I see is one state called Israel, with all the inhabitants having equal rights. But it is obvious how democratic such a state will be if the Jewish character of the country is to be maintained.



David

[Edited 2012-09-30 15:43:03]

[Edited 2012-09-30 16:19:58]
Keeping calm is terrorism against those who want to live in fear.
 
ImperialEagle
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RE: Netanyahu Buckles In Showdown With Iran

Sun Sep 30, 2012 11:46 pm

Quoting Aaron747 (Reply 44):
Oh where to start?

Exactly what I thought when I waded into this one!

Quoting Aaron747 (Reply 44):
I'm Jewish and have no qualms

Nor should you. BUT, there is a difference between criticizing Israel and DEMONIZING her which the haters don't seem to, or care to get.

Quoting Aaron747 (Reply 44):
the US was still a hotbed of anti-semitic sentiment where behind closed doors many policymakers were hoping the American Jewish diaspora would start to relocate.

  

Quoting Aaron747 (Reply 44):
the situation that is *entirely separate* from their behavior, which is: what is anyone going to do about a nuclear-capable Iran? The entire region is not on board with this prospect, particularly the majority Sunni states like Saudi Arabia, that have their own demographic challenges afoot if Shia Iran suddenly becomes much more powerful. You have to look at the big picture beyond Israel. A nuclear-armed Iran is intolerable not for Israel's sake, but because it destabilizes the entire region - which nobody wants. Not to mention that the Iranians have provided known assistance to terrorist groups and adding fissile materials to the mix is probably not the best idea.

   Certainly a motivation for the leader of ANY surrounding nation to do whatever it deems necessary to protect itself.

Quoting Aaron747 (Reply 44):
This is business as usual in Israeli politics - not a sign of weak foundations.

Oh, thank you!

Quoting flyingturtle (Reply 46):
Could you point out some similarities between Israel and Switzerland?

Clearly something got lost in my sarcasim.  />
Quoting flyingturtle (Reply 46):
A two state solution is already impossible. It is highly improbable that Israel would ever allow a viable Palestinian state beside it - especially one that
lobs rockets into it nearly daily as the current Palestinians do.   

Interesting that not one of youz guys had a comment to make about the Black September 1970 slaughter of Palestinians by the Jordanians. So, if the Israelis retailiate against terrorists they are the bad guys, but of Jordan does it its o.k.?
The good old double-standard, right?
"If everything seems under control, you're just not going fast enough!"
 
johnboy
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RE: Netanyahu Buckles In Showdown With Iran

Sun Sep 30, 2012 11:56 pm

Surely there has to be some type of corollary to Godwin's Law that covers lobbing out the tiresome bleating of "you're an anti-semite!!!" or "you're a jew-hater!!!" everytime someone dares to criticize Israel.  
 
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DeltaMD90
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RE: Netanyahu Buckles In Showdown With Iran

Sun Sep 30, 2012 11:59 pm

Quoting ImperialEagle (Reply 47):
So, if the Israelis retailiate against terrorists they are the bad guys, but of Jordan does it its o.k.?
The good old double-standard, right?

I don't think anyone on this forum is defending any slaughter. You do realize that there are NOT just 2 sides to this issue... someone doesn't have to be 100% pro-Israel/they can do no wrong nor do they have to be 100% against Israel/suicide attacks are ok
Ironically I have never flown a Delta MD-90 :)

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