Ken777
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Here Comes The Presidential Debates

Tue Oct 02, 2012 7:45 pm

The first Presidential Debate is tomorrow (Wednesday) at 9PM to 10:30 PM Eastern timeZone.

The Moderator is Jim Lehrer (Host of NewsHour on PBS), who does have a solid reputation.

Quote:
The debate will focus on domestic policy and be divided into six time segments of approximately 15 minutes each on topics to be selected by the moderator and announced several weeks before the debate.

So far both sides have been downplaying their candidate's Debating Ability. Paul Ryan has actually said that this is Romney's "first time he has debated".         

Wonder what part of the primaries debates that Ryan didn't understand.

My bet for the debates is that Romney will do very well, but might be hesitant to hit as hard s he has in the primaries and so far to date in the campaign. It will be his first time in a debate with a President and the Office does have a power in itself.

Looking at health care, Romney's problem is RomneyCare - very similar to ObamaCare. He also has a serious problem (IMO) with his deflection of important questions - like what middle class loopholes will be killed when he "cuts taxes".

Overall Romney does have an issue with "effecting questions". The only question is if Obama can hit him effectively with that.

Other scheduled debates:

The only Vice President Debate is October 11th

Quote:
The debate will cover both foreign and domestic topics and be divided into nine time segments of approximately 10 minutes each.

The Second Presidential Debate is October 16th.

Quote:
The second presidential debate will take the form of a town meeting, in which citizens will ask questions of the candidates on foreign and domestic issues.

The last Presidential Debate is October 22

Quote:
The second presidential debate will take the form of a town meeting, in which citizens will ask questions of the candidates on foreign and domestic issues.

Link for all:

http://www.2012presidentialelectionn...2012-presidential-debate-schedule/

So who's going with Romney or Obama to win this one?
 
mt99
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RE: Here Comes The Presidential Debates

Tue Oct 02, 2012 8:06 pm

Quoting Ken777 (Thread starter):
So who's going with Romney or Obama to win this one?

With way the polls are i think Obama just needs to keep cool and not do anything drastic. He needs to leave the "misspeaking" to Romney. He need to leave the "zinger" and the desperation to Romney

On the other hand, I saw something interesting last night, the talking claimed that if Romney does not fall on his face, it would be a victory for him. And I agree.
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thegreatRDU
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RE: Here Comes The Presidential Debates

Tue Oct 02, 2012 8:09 pm

Quoting mt99 (Reply 1):

With way the polls are i think Obama just needs to keep cool and not do anything drastic. He needs to leave the "misspeaking" to Romney. He need to leave the "zinger" and the desperation to Romney

That's what i was thinking, Obama can really put the nail in the coffin here
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casinterest
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RE: Here Comes The Presidential Debates

Tue Oct 02, 2012 8:23 pm

Quoting Ken777 (Thread starter):
My bet for the debates is that Romney will do very well, but might be hesitant to hit as hard s he has in the primaries and so far to date in the campaign. It will be his first time in a debate with a President and the Office does have a power in itself.

Romney's biggest problem is that he has not been effective in communicating what exactly he will do. Their is a lot of murk and unknown details. He needs to be precise and cutting against Obama. For example everyone knows that Obama wants to raise taxes on the wealthy, and leave most of the rest of the taxes in place for now. However romney has generically hinted at radical and sweeping cuts, without identifying the loopholes that will equilibrate the lost income. It is a bit of "voodoo" economics. He can't make these promises without some hard numbers, and I think that a lot of folks will be looking to that. He needs to differentiate himself, and domestifcally I am really not sure how he will do it other than taxes. Obamacare is a bad road for him, and today he basically said he would allow the "dreamers" to stay in country so Immigration won't be a differentiator.
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cedarjet
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RE: Here Comes The Presidential Debates

Tue Oct 02, 2012 9:15 pm

I think Romney is going to get his ass handed to him on a plate tomorrow. Looking forward to it - a lot.

Quoting Ken777 (Thread starter):
Paul Ryan has actually said that this is Romney's "first time he has debated".

The Republicans will say any* lie, no matter how bald-faced, and Ryan is as bad as any of them when it comes to "truthiness".

* "we won't let our campaign be dictated to by fact-checkers" - wow is that ever true.
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BN747
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RE: Here Comes The Presidential Debates

Tue Oct 02, 2012 9:53 pm

Quoting thegreatRDU (Reply 2):
Quoting mt99 (Reply 1):

With way the polls are i think Obama just needs to keep cool and not do anything drastic. He needs to leave the "misspeaking" to Romney. He need to leave the "zinger" and the desperation to Romney

That's what i was thinking, Obama can really put the nail in the coffin here

Romney did that for him with the '47%' secret comments... game over. This is simply for shirts & giggles...

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flymia
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RE: Here Comes The Presidential Debates

Tue Oct 02, 2012 10:57 pm

Quoting mt99 (Reply 1):
On the other hand, I saw something interesting last night, the talking claimed that if Romney does not fall on his face, it would be a victory for him. And I agree.


I think the expectations for Romney are lowers and polls show that. That honestly is a good thing. Romney is a good at debating though. So is President Obama of course. Because expectations are lower I think Romney pulls this one off for a few reasons.
First he will surpass expectations. Second we have all heard what Obama thinks over and over again we know what he thinks which leads to if Romney can say something new with details that will give people something to think about. And lastly with President Obama leading in the polls he knows he should not do anything drastic. He will take this one easy and see what happens. The worst thing he could do is mess it up himself.

Quoting casinterest (Reply 3):
Romney's biggest problem is that he has not been effective in communicating what exactly he will do


Agreed. I really hope he gets out there with some better details. He does not have all the time in the world it is not easy to giving details in 9 minutes that is what Obama does well. Or at least he makes it seem like he is giving details. It is all about perseption in time limited things like this.

Quoting cedarjet (Reply 4):
I think Romney is going to get his ass handed to him on a plate tomorrow. Looking forward to it - a lot.


Thought we could finally just maybe have a decent civilized thread at least until the debate is over. Guess I was wrong. But this is exactly the expectation of many, especially the Dems. This is why I think Romney can have a good night.

But lets be real there is no score card. Dems are going to think everything Obama said was great and Repubs are going to say the same for Romney. The people in the middle are who count but there are not many of them.
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RE: Here Comes The Presidential Debates

Tue Oct 02, 2012 11:06 pm

Quoting BN747 (Reply 5):
This is simply for shirts & giggles...

But it always is. I doubt many voters base their votes off the debates. Frankly, I view the debates as being about as useful as the conventions.

"You tell 'im, Barak!"
"Give it back to him, Mitt!"

Buncha cheerleading on both sides, not much new gets said. If you pay attention to what was said in the press releases and speeches, that's what really counts.

If anything, these debates will be amusing. Romney has a way with words like Humpty Dumpty does with walls. And Barak Obama, while he's a great speaker, isn't exactly good at winging it on his feet.
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DeltaMD90
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RE: Here Comes The Presidential Debates

Tue Oct 02, 2012 11:31 pm

So to sum up the last couple weeks I've, I've heard:

Democrats saying Romney is a good debater
Democrats saying Romney is a bad debater
Republicans saying Romney is a good debater
Republicans saying Romney is a bad debater

Looks like no one knows what's going on
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DocLightning
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RE: Here Comes The Presidential Debates

Tue Oct 02, 2012 11:45 pm

Quoting DeltaMD90 (Reply 8):

Democrats saying Romney is a good debater
Democrats saying Romney is a bad debater
Republicans saying Romney is a good debater
Republicans saying Romney is a bad debater

Looks like no one knows what's going on

Pretty much, yeah.

Besides, honestly, the two candidates are so wildly different that if you haven't figured out who you're voting for yet, you obviously either haven't been paying attention or don't care.
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zckls04
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RE: Here Comes The Presidential Debates

Tue Oct 02, 2012 11:54 pm

Quoting DocLightning (Reply 7):
But it always is. I doubt many voters base their votes off the debates. Frankly, I view the debates as being about as useful as the conventions.

I don't think you can win the Presidency during the debates, but I think you can lose it. Romney's problem is that debates are the area Obama excelled in most during the last campaign, so unless he just fails to prepare it's hard to see where he's going to stumble.

Can't wait for the VP debate though....
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DocLightning
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RE: Here Comes The Presidential Debates

Tue Oct 02, 2012 11:56 pm

Quoting zckls04 (Reply 10):
I don't think you can win the Presidency during the debates, but I think you can lose it.

I'll give you that. But then again, I think Romney lost it a while ago. As I said, he has a way with words...
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Ken777
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RE: Here Comes The Presidential Debates

Wed Oct 03, 2012 12:37 am

Quoting flymia (Reply 6):
I think the expectations for Romney are lowers and polls show that.



I believe the polls are very different from debate expectations. Romney has some difficulties in the polls, but he has been in a LOT of debates in this year. The GOP primaries was very good practice for the candidate. Well, most of them.

I expect Romney to do very well in the debate. I believe he will continue to deflect questions that require delivering what the middle class would be facing under a Romney Administration. Possible a hit on his tax returns.

Quoting flymia (Reply 6):
I really hope he gets out there with some better details.

I believe he will skillfully deflect delivering details. He's avoided details so far and I don't expect him to change unless he goes a lot further in the polls.
 
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RE: Here Comes The Presidential Debates

Wed Oct 03, 2012 12:47 am

Quoting Ken777 (Reply 12):
I believe he will skillfully deflect delivering details. He's avoided details so far and I don't expect him to change unless he goes a lot further in the polls.

I think he should go ahead and give some so maybe it helps him in the polls.

Quoting Ken777 (Reply 12):
I believe the polls are very different from debate expectations. Romney has some difficulties in the polls, but he has been in a LOT of debates in this year.

Sorry should have mentioned it, I was only referring to the CNN poll about the debate. I agree with you though Romney has had a lot of practice and the general polls mean nothing about the debate. http://politicalticker.blogs.cnn.com...ll-who-will-win-wednesdays-debate/

Quote:
According to a ABC News/Washington Post national poll released Monday, 55% of likely voters say they think the president will win the debate, with 31% saying that Romney will be victorious.


Everyone knows Pres Obama is a great speaker but he is not the best off the top of his head. We will see what happens. Should be an entertaining night watching and here on the forum for the aftermath
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CaliAtenza
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RE: Here Comes The Presidential Debates

Wed Oct 03, 2012 1:12 am

im just sick and tired of Romney and Ryan and their lying asses. Seriously  . Obama just needs to win this and lets get on with the next 4 years!
 
flymia
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RE: Here Comes The Presidential Debates

Wed Oct 03, 2012 4:44 am

Quoting CaliAtenza (Reply 14):

You call Romenu and Ryan liers. There are plenty of things Obama has lied and or failed about. If this said during a campaign is considered lying Pres Obama is full of them!
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Aesma
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RE: Here Comes The Presidential Debates

Wed Oct 03, 2012 5:43 am

Is it a real debate, face to face answering and attacking each other, or is it a speech with interruptions to let the other candidate make his speech ?

Also, do some soundbites from debates stay in memory ?
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comorin
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RE: Here Comes The Presidential Debates

Wed Oct 03, 2012 9:12 am

I was reading somewhere that since both Romney and Obama are individually boring speakers, expect the debates to be MASSIVELY boring!   
 
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RE: Here Comes The Presidential Debates

Wed Oct 03, 2012 9:22 am

Quoting Ken777 (Thread starter):
The first Presidential Debate is tomorrow (Wednesday) at 9PM to 10:30 PM Eastern timeZone.

I would really like to watch this but it will be live cast at stupid o'clock in the night my time. I guess I will have to watch a replay.

 

As to which candidate has the most chances of getting the job at the White House I will have to let those in charge decide who they want. I would certainly prefer one who will oppose war rather than one who will push for war.
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us330
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RE: Here Comes The Presidential Debates

Wed Oct 03, 2012 2:59 pm

Quoting casinterest (Reply 3):

Romney's biggest problem is that he has not been effective in communicating what exactly he will do. Their is a lot of murk and unknown details.

Yep. Did you see the infamous clip when Chris Wallace (of Fox News) tried to get Paul Ryan to elaborate on some of the details, and Ryan blew him off? And then Romney's op-ed in the Wall Street Journal about foreign policy the other day that said absolutely nothing about what he would do when he was in office?

From another perspective, it's kind of ironic that the Republicans criticized (And rightfully so--I completely agreed with the criticism) Obama in 2008 for the nebulous concepts of "Hope" and "Change" without offering much in the way of specifics, and in 2012 the Republicans' own candidates are running on a basic platform of change, and not offering much in the way of specifics.
 
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casinterest
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RE: Here Comes The Presidential Debates

Wed Oct 03, 2012 4:12 pm

Quoting us330 (Reply 19):

From another perspective, it's kind of ironic that the Republicans criticized (And rightfully so--I completely agreed with the criticism) Obama in 2008 for the nebulous concepts of "Hope" and "Change" without offering much in the way of specifics, and in 2012 the Republicans' own candidates are running on a basic platform of change, and not offering much in the way of specifics.

Yeah, but everyone needed hope and change in 2008. The problem now is that you have had a congress sceaming for two years about budgets and deficits, and now Romney is coming in and basically saying we will change the tax code, and that will magically fix some things. But he is not being specific. People want specifics because everyone is tired of the old, we have to cut this and that, but when push comes to shove , no one wants to cut this vs that.
Everyone is suspicious of Romney and Ryan's plan because it is basically about flatening the tax code, and killing some sacred cows to keep it revenue neutral or raise revenue. Where thos revenue shifts come from should not be a limited discussion about etheral "loopholes".
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seb146
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RE: Here Comes The Presidential Debates

Wed Oct 03, 2012 7:54 pm

*yawn* wake me when I get my ballot....
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canoecarrier
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RE: Here Comes The Presidential Debates

Wed Oct 03, 2012 8:37 pm

Quoting Aesma (Reply 16):
Is it a real debate, face to face answering and attacking each other, or is it a speech with interruptions to let the other candidate make his speech ?

Also, do some soundbites from debates stay in memory ?

The moderator asks each questions that they answer in their own way, mostly rehearsed. They are on the same stage across from each other at podiums usually.

Reagan was a great debater. He has some very memorable quotes attributed to him from debates. For example:

"Ask yourself, 'Are you better off now than you were four years ago? Is it easier for you to go and buy things in the stores than it was four years ago? Is there more or less unemployment in the country than there was four years ago? Is America as respected throughout the world as it was?”

The Vice Presidential debates can be good too. Quayle and Bentsen in '88.

Quayle: "I have as much experience in the Congress as Jack Kennedy did when he sought the presidency."

Bentsen: "I knew Jack Kennedy; Jack Kennedy was a friend of mine. Senator, you're no Jack Kennedy."


I'm planning on going to the gym tonight and watching it while I run on the treadmill. The wife could care less about it, so I figure I'll save her the heartache.
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Mir
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RE: Here Comes The Presidential Debates

Wed Oct 03, 2012 9:31 pm

Quoting Aesma (Reply 16):
Also, do some soundbites from debates stay in memory ?

McCain had a good one from a debate four years ago that stuck with me: "Senator [Obama], I'm not George Bush. If you wanted to run against George Bush you should have run four years ago."

He did lose the election of course, but that was for other reasons.

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Aesma
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RE: Here Comes The Presidential Debates

Wed Oct 03, 2012 10:25 pm

Thanks for your answers. I'll probably download it on the newsgroups to see for myself.
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Ken777
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RE: Here Comes The Presidential Debates

Wed Oct 03, 2012 10:27 pm

Quoting Mir (Reply 23):
"Senator [Obama], I'm not George Bush. If you wanted to run against George Bush you should have run four years ago."

That was a great line - I had forgotten it.

I'm sure that both Romney & Obama have had some great lines written for them. The question is how well tey deliver those lines. Hopefully Romney can deliver a good line better than he sings.
 
smittyone
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RE: Here Comes The Presidential Debates

Wed Oct 03, 2012 11:56 pm

Quoting DocLightning (Reply 9):
Besides, honestly, the two candidates are so wildly different that if you haven't figured out who you're voting for yet, you obviously either haven't been paying attention or don't care.

Or, if you're like me you feel like a CIWS on the corner of the flight deck...with two missiles coming at you at the same time and aren't sure which one to shoot down.

Quoting canoecarrier (Reply 22):
The Vice Presidential debates can be good too. Quayle and Bentsen in '88.

Quayle: "I have as much experience in the Congress as Jack Kennedy did when he sought the presidency."

Bentsen: "I knew Jack Kennedy; Jack Kennedy was a friend of mine. Senator, you're no Jack Kennedy."

I saw that debate live...that line was clutch!
 
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casinterest
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RE: Here Comes The Presidential Debates

Thu Oct 04, 2012 12:55 am

Ok everyone , here we go.
Everyone take a drink each time the following are mentioned .
Middle Class
Tax Cuts
Class Warfare
Deficit

I'd continue, but i don't want to be responsible for hospital bills.
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DeltaMD90
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RE: Here Comes The Presidential Debates

Thu Oct 04, 2012 1:17 am

Quoting casinterest (Reply 27):
Middle Class
Tax Cuts
Class Warfare
Deficit

Well I haven't heard "class warfare," but I've already heard the other few a million times lol.

Kinda off topic, but I love how Romney has only one emotion  
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QFA380
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RE: Here Comes The Presidential Debates

Thu Oct 04, 2012 1:18 am

So far, from mine looks like Romney might have a slight edge.
Love his caveat, 'no tax cut that adds to the deficit', here's a tax cut, loljokes, we didn't think it'd add to the deficit.

How many times has Obama said 'aanndd', 'orrr', 'ahhh'...

Quoting casinterest (Reply 27):
Everyone take a drink each time the following are mentioned .

I hope you're not dead of alcohol poisoning just yet! They're at about one of those phrases every 5 seconds.
 
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casinterest
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RE: Here Comes The Presidential Debates

Thu Oct 04, 2012 1:27 am

Quoting QFA380 (Reply 29):
hope you're not dead of alcohol poisoning just yet! They're at about one of those phrases every 5 seconds.

For those still sober..... add "that's not my plan "to the list.
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smittyone
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RE: Here Comes The Presidential Debates

Thu Oct 04, 2012 1:32 am

Quoting casinterest (Reply 30):
For those still sober..... add "that's not my plan "to the list.

Hahaha yes. "Get the job done" too.

So far Governor Romney is actually impressing me a little bit. I thought his quip about "having five boys so he knows what it's like to have someone tell him something that isn't true over and over again hoping he'll believe it" was pretty clever.
 
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DeltaMD90
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RE: Here Comes The Presidential Debates

Thu Oct 04, 2012 1:37 am

Quoting SmittyOne (Reply 31):
So far Governor Romney is actually impressing me a little bit.

I'm quite impressed too... it's an actual rational argument! You can truly see that both these men want the best for America...

I hope PHX787 isn't playing this drinking game on his 21st btw... he'd be dead by now!
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casinterest
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RE: Here Comes The Presidential Debates

Thu Oct 04, 2012 1:38 am

Quoting SmittyOne (Reply 31):
So far Governor Romney is actually impressing me a little bit. I thought his quip about "having five boys so he knows what it's like to have someone tell him something that isn't true over and over again hoping he'll believe it" was pretty clever.

Personality wise he is doing ok, but he is getting flustered over Obama's ripping apart of the Romney Tax Plan. I'll be interested to see how the fact checkers come down on this, but from my understanding Obama is correct about what Romney's plan represents.
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smittyone
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RE: Here Comes The Presidential Debates

Thu Oct 04, 2012 1:44 am

Quoting casinterest (Reply 33):
I'll be interested to see how the fact checkers come down on this,

Same here...frankly they throw out so many figures it's really impossible to figure out who is full of crap in real time.

All a debate is really good for is determining the candidates' ability to stay cool and/or pass a line of BS with a straight face  
 
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DeltaMD90
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RE: Here Comes The Presidential Debates

Thu Oct 04, 2012 1:46 am

Mitt sure is going over his allotted time though. Geez Louise!
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casinterest
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RE: Here Comes The Presidential Debates

Thu Oct 04, 2012 1:50 am

Quoting SmittyOne (Reply 34):

Same here...frankly they throw out so many figures it's really impossible to figure out who is full of crap in real time

I don;t think I have seen so many numbers thrown out in a debate. George W. would have been lost in this one.
They have done their homework, especially on each other's plans.

The medicare debate is interesting. Still goes on to prove that healthcare is fubar.
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smittyone
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RE: Here Comes The Presidential Debates

Thu Oct 04, 2012 1:50 am

Quoting DeltaMD90 (Reply 35):
Mitt sure is going over his allotted time though. Geez Louise!

"And that's number one" DRINK
 
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casinterest
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RE: Here Comes The Presidential Debates

Thu Oct 04, 2012 1:59 am

Quoting DeltaMD90 (Reply 35):
Mitt sure is going over his allotted time though. Geez Louise!

They are staying fairly even. Lehrer is doing a pretty good job keeping them on task.

"=====================
"obamacare" is now added to the list.
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comorin
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RE: Here Comes The Presidential Debates

Thu Oct 04, 2012 2:20 am

Total Snoozefest...

Ronmey looks like he just got off a red-eye flight. Obama posture not so great - tends to stick out rear a la Condi Rice.

Other than that, a debate between two Harvard Law School grads...
 
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casinterest
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RE: Here Comes The Presidential Debates

Thu Oct 04, 2012 2:35 am

TIme to sleep on it a bit.

Thought both did well. Lotsa facts to sort through.
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zckls04
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RE: Here Comes The Presidential Debates

Thu Oct 04, 2012 2:39 am

Right after the debate my initial feeling is that Romney came across best. Not sure whether it was "best enough", but it was definitely a pretty polished performance apart from a brief stumble during the Medicare question.
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flymia
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RE: Here Comes The Presidential Debates

Thu Oct 04, 2012 2:41 am

Obama had over a four minute time advantage!
Did not matter though, Mitt won this for sure. Anyone who thinks otherwise is just being much to partisan. Whether this means anything in the polls is the real question.
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flyguy89
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RE: Here Comes The Presidential Debates

Thu Oct 04, 2012 2:44 am

Overall it was boring lol, but I thought Obama held his own but Romney came off sharper.
 
smittyone
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RE: Here Comes The Presidential Debates

Thu Oct 04, 2012 2:46 am

The sad feeling I'm left with after watching this is...do we as a nation have anything more impressive to aspire to than having the Government make sure that everybody gets their cholesterol medicine paid for?

It's like instead of Bread and Circuses we have Social Security and Health Care. Both of which go down the toilet if we don't achieve technological innovation and economic power earned by doing something other than selling each other wireless plans.
 
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casinterest
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RE: Here Comes The Presidential Debates

Thu Oct 04, 2012 2:48 am

The one problem that Romney has, that a lot of people will reflect on tommorrow is that Romney never quite explained the tax cuts and revenue at all that he has been campaigning on.
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pu
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RE: Here Comes The Presidential Debates

Thu Oct 04, 2012 2:49 am

Both of them threw around a lot of trillion dollar this and billion dollar that, you need to have a nerdy guy come on the corner of the screen to tell you whose more accurate with the numbers.
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Romney comes across more relaxed and communicates better.

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RE: Here Comes The Presidential Debates

Thu Oct 04, 2012 2:51 am

From my end:

The cargo hold filled with the amount of people who give a **** about the debate

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(stolen from my other thread    )

In All seriousness though, I think Romney did bring up a number of points. Obama to me stumbled quite a bit. Good night for the R guy

[Edited 2012-10-03 19:54:07]
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flymia
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RE: Here Comes The Presidential Debates

Thu Oct 04, 2012 2:51 am

Quoting pu (Reply 46):

Agreed I think that is why they stay away from details. 95% of the people watching would just get lose in numbers,
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RE: Here Comes The Presidential Debates

Thu Oct 04, 2012 2:54 am

Quoting casinterest (Reply 45):
The one problem that Romney has, that a lot of people will reflect on tommorrow is that Romney never quite explained the tax cuts and revenue at all that he has been campaigning on.

True. An analysis that I haven't seen is a comparison of how Romney actually performed fiscally as Governor vs. how the President has performed. Lack of specifics on Romney's part can be made up in part if he can show that when he was in the drivers seat he took Massachusetts to a better place.

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