CometII
Topic Author
Posts: 291
Joined: Tue Dec 28, 1999 6:02 am

Should FOX News/MSNBC Be Forced To Drop "news"?

Thu Oct 04, 2012 6:21 pm

From their description and or title name?

Most people have understood for years that Fox News started as a response to what conservatives view is a liberal bias in the news coverage. MSNBC, after trying a million different formats, decided to "outfox" Fox News, but on the left instead of the right (which actually they tried! Remember Michael Savage?)

Until a couple of years ago, both networks claimed that it was only their "prime time" line-up was not news but "editorials", thus they were not guilty of bias and could still be called news organizations, because during daytime they reported news.

There was some truth to that. Both networks covered a lot of live events in the daytime, just as they happened and while there may have been pieces that were biased, it wasn't overarching in the programming.

That's not the case today. Not only has their primetime become more extreme right-wing or left-wing (notice how Greta Van Susteren has become nothing more than a political hack in her show, and I used to like her), and Lawrence O'Donnell (ditto, he says the most outrageous things about conservatives). Of course we knew already about Hannity and Schulz.

But their daytime has also become an editorial news piece. Two key reasons:

1. They now pick and choose which news to cover, and then spin it like they did not in the past (witness shows like Megan Kelly or Jansing and Co, they used to cover stories but now it is all political spin and hit pieces on one candidate or the other, maybe it is only for the election season but still). So now you see totally different "news stories" in both, when in the daytime it used to be more unified. That is clear evidence of no longer covering news.

2. They in fact try to MAKE news. That is a dangerous departure from the past. Now they themselves try to determine what is "big, breaking news" (btw, if a gust of wind hits Manhattan, it is "breaking news" on Fox... Cavuto is the worst offender, if he farts they put the breaking banner).

The only somewhat "objective" people in those networks are Sheppard Smith and Andrea Mitchell.

I think most smart people know all this already, but for symbolic purposes shoudn't they be forced to admit they are no longer news organizations but spin cycles of the POLITICAL apparatus, both republican and democrat?
 
Mir
Posts: 19092
Joined: Mon Jan 05, 2004 3:55 am

RE: Should FOX News/MSNBC Be Forced To Drop "news"?

Thu Oct 04, 2012 6:38 pm

Should they? Yes, for all the reasons you described.

Should they be forced to? Unfortunately, no. The government shouldn't be telling companies what they can call themselves. The case could be make that the whole "fair and balanced" thing constitutes false advertising (I'm not sure it really does, but I can see the case), but that's a separate issue from what the name of the network is.

-Mir
7 billion, one nation, imagination...it's a beautiful day
 
User avatar
Dreadnought
Posts: 9821
Joined: Tue Feb 19, 2008 6:31 pm

RE: Should FOX News/MSNBC Be Forced To Drop "news"?

Thu Oct 04, 2012 7:03 pm

Quoting CometII (Thread starter):
I think most smart people know all this already, but for symbolic purposes shoudn't they be forced to admit they are no longer news organizations but spin cycles of the POLITICAL apparatus, both republican and democrat?

Who would force them to do so? The government? Do you want the government to certify certain organizations as "news"? When the Dems are in charge, MediaMatters and DailyKos would become news organizations, and when the GOP is in charge, they get dumped in favor of EIB (Rush Limbaugh's company) and Glenn Beck?

I haven't seen it in a while, but I recall a supermarket tabloid called "Weekly News" or something like that, that regularly reported stuff like "Elvis' alien love child born on Mars" etc. You want to pull their title? Who cares? Can't people make up their own mind?
Forget dogs and cats - Spay and neuter your liberals.
 
D L X
Posts: 11640
Joined: Thu May 27, 1999 3:30 am

RE: Should FOX News/MSNBC Be Forced To Drop "news"?

Thu Oct 04, 2012 7:28 pm

Quoting Mir (Reply 1):
The government shouldn't be telling companies what they can call themselves.

While I don't think this rises to the level of deception required for intervention, it absolutely is the government's job to tell companies what they are not allowed to call themselves due to deception. The government has a strong role in consumer protection. You can't call yourself, for instance, "USDA Grade A Beef Co." if you sell anything other than Grade A beef. That would be deceptive, and the government can, will, and should, step in and stop you.


My advice is rather to just turn them all off.
 
seb146
Posts: 13796
Joined: Wed Dec 01, 1999 7:19 am

RE: Should FOX News/MSNBC Be Forced To Drop "news"?

Thu Oct 04, 2012 8:08 pm

To be fair, MSNBC does not use the word "News" in their title.

I believe FOX should stop saying they are "news" because they are not. If they want to keep lying to people, that is how big business and multi-national corporations work to make a buck, I guess.
Life in the wall is a drag.
 
Mir
Posts: 19092
Joined: Mon Jan 05, 2004 3:55 am

RE: Should FOX News/MSNBC Be Forced To Drop "news"?

Thu Oct 04, 2012 8:09 pm

Quoting D L X (Reply 3):
You can't call yourself, for instance, "USDA Grade A Beef Co." if you sell anything other than Grade A beef. That would be deceptive, and the government can, will, and should, step in and stop you.

Because you're using the USDA in your name. That's a trademark, and is assumed to mean a certain thing, and thus the government can protect it. But if you just called yourself "Grade A Beef Co.", you could sell whatever grade you wanted.

-Mir
7 billion, one nation, imagination...it's a beautiful day
 
User avatar
Dreadnought
Posts: 9821
Joined: Tue Feb 19, 2008 6:31 pm

RE: Should FOX News/MSNBC Be Forced To Drop "news"?

Thu Oct 04, 2012 8:09 pm

Quoting D L X (Reply 3):
While I don't think this rises to the level of deception required for intervention, it absolutely is the government's job to tell companies what they are not allowed to call themselves due to deception.

From Collins English Dictionary

news (njuːz)

— n
1. current events; important or interesting recent happenings
2. information about such events, as in the mass media
3. a. the news a presentation, such as a radio broadcast, of information of this type: the news is at six
b. ( in combination  a newscaster
4. interesting or important information not previously known or realized: it's news to me
5. a person, fashion, etc, widely reported in the mass media: she is no longer news in the film world

In what sense does Fox or MSNBC not satisfy these definitions? There is no obligation for news to be free of some sort of opinion. You can write stories in a relatively bias-free manner, but editorial bias is virtually impossible to eliminate - it will always be there - how you select what news stories to air, and how much airtime you give it. Every news service in the world has been guilty of editorial bias.

I think you simply have a low tolerance for differing opinions. Just deal with it.
Forget dogs and cats - Spay and neuter your liberals.
 
User avatar
casinterest
Posts: 5358
Joined: Sat Feb 12, 2005 5:30 am

RE: Should FOX News/MSNBC Be Forced To Drop "news"?

Thu Oct 04, 2012 8:48 pm

Quoting CometII (Thread starter):
I think most smart people know all this already, but for symbolic purposes shoudn't they be forced to admit they are no longer news organizations but spin cycles of the POLITICAL apparatus, both republican and democrat?

Changing the names won't help.
Both of these organizations are like the WWE, lots of bang and flash, but at the end of it all, fake.

At some point folks will figure it out.
Older than I just was ,and younger than I will soo be.
 
User avatar
Dreadnought
Posts: 9821
Joined: Tue Feb 19, 2008 6:31 pm

RE: Should FOX News/MSNBC Be Forced To Drop "news"?

Thu Oct 04, 2012 8:56 pm

Quoting seb146 (Reply 4):
I believe FOX should stop saying they are "news" because they are not. If they want to keep lying to people, that is how big business and multi-national corporations work to make a buck, I guess.

That's a serious charge. Evidence?
Forget dogs and cats - Spay and neuter your liberals.
 
AirframeAS
Posts: 9811
Joined: Thu Feb 05, 2004 3:56 pm

RE: Should FOX News/MSNBC Be Forced To Drop "news"?

Thu Oct 04, 2012 8:59 pm

Quoting CometII (Thread starter):

Simply put, it ain't ever gonna happen under the First Amendment.
A Safe Flight Begins With Quality Maintenance On The Ground.
 
rfields5421
Posts: 5550
Joined: Thu Jul 19, 2007 12:45 am

RE: Should FOX News/MSNBC Be Forced To Drop "news"?

Thu Oct 04, 2012 9:07 pm

Frankly I see very little 'news' on any television or cable channel and hear very little on the radio in the US.

From the editorially slanted coverage at Fox to the entertainment focused morning shows of the three traditional networks.

If you want to qualify which organizations can call their shows news - that term will likely disappear from the media.

I don't like Fox. I don't like their BS that they are 'Fair and Balanced'. I see them go to great lengths to twist stories to fit their agenda. I see their news presenters expressing personal opinions as fact on almost every show.

But I also don't think anyone can define news to an extent that your proposal would be possible.

And even the very attempt to make such a definition would be against the free speech principles written into our constitution.

Fox exists because spreading fear is much easier than spreading the truth.

If you make them go away, something else, likely worse, will take their place.
 
cmf
Posts: 3120
Joined: Sun Jun 12, 2011 11:22 pm

RE: Should FOX News/MSNBC Be Forced To Drop "news"?

Thu Oct 04, 2012 9:29 pm

Quoting Dreadnought (Reply 2):
Who would force them to do so? The government?

Who else would be able to do it? Industry self governing isn't an area with many successful examples.

That said, I think news is encompassing enough to cover what both organisations do.
Don’t repeat earlier generations mistakes. Learn history for a better future.
 
Ken777
Posts: 9024
Joined: Thu Mar 11, 2004 5:39 am

RE: Should FOX News/MSNBC Be Forced To Drop "news"?

Thu Oct 04, 2012 10:11 pm

I haven't bothered with FOX for years - well, maybe if there is an interesting football game on.

MSNBC can be interesting when something is going on.

I watched CNN immediately after the debate, then went to MSNBC. On the MSNBC panel discussing was Steve Schmidt. You might remember him as one of the top political consultants for McCain in the 08 election. Michael Steel has also been on a lot. Amazingly the "liberals" on MSNBC have always had very congenial relations with the conservatives and there have been interesting discussions. MSNBC doesn't have as strong a balance of right and left as CNN, but it led to an interesting night. MSNBC was also as clear as CNN on the fact that Obama got whipped on the first debate.
 
D L X
Posts: 11640
Joined: Thu May 27, 1999 3:30 am

RE: Should FOX News/MSNBC Be Forced To Drop "news"?

Thu Oct 04, 2012 11:02 pm

Quoting Mir (Reply 5):
But if you just called yourself "Grade A Beef Co.", you could sell whatever grade you wanted.

I doubt it. That wording is probably also going to get the government on you.

Quoting Dreadnought (Reply 6):
In what sense does Fox or MSNBC not satisfy these definitions? There is no obligation for news to be free of some sort of opinion. You can write stories in a relatively bias-free manner, but editorial bias is virtually impossible to eliminate - it will always be there - how you select what news stories to air, and how much airtime you give it. Every news service in the world has been guilty of editorial bias.

I think you simply have a low tolerance for differing opinions. Just deal with it.

Did you read any of what I wrote? Your response makes utterly no sense.

Quoting D L X (Reply 3):
While I don't think this rises to the level of deception required for intervention
 
Braniff747SP
Posts: 2565
Joined: Sun Oct 26, 2008 4:56 am

RE: Should FOX News/MSNBC Be Forced To Drop "news"?

Thu Oct 04, 2012 11:30 pm

It doesn't matter--its just a name. People who want unbiased (or as close as one can get) news will turn elsewhere.
The 747 will always be the TRUE queen of the skies!
 
User avatar
DeltaMD90
Posts: 8245
Joined: Tue Apr 15, 2008 11:25 pm

RE: Should FOX News/MSNBC Be Forced To Drop "news"?

Fri Oct 05, 2012 2:00 am

Oh brother. I don't watch TV news, and sure FOX may have a bad rep for (insert reason here) but they do tell the news most of the time and I'm sure the vast majority of stuff they say is right. I don't know, I don't care, and what, are we going to get the federal government involved saying "well this station only has news on for X hours, and they have X incorrect facts per day, let's force them to drop 'news' from their title."

Don't like FOX? Don't watch them and leave them alone. All you're doing is walking up to a hornets nest and kicking it for no reason. You'll piss off a huge amount of people, make them say there's a big conspiracy going on (which, well, they'd be right) and they'd just be FOX "Channel" doing the same stuff. You still wouldn't watch it, others would, except you completely needlessly started a pissing match that would just polarize the nation even more.

What would be the point?
Ironically I have never flown a Delta MD-90 :)
 
compensateme
Posts: 1600
Joined: Wed Jan 28, 2009 4:17 am

RE: Should FOX News/MSNBC Be Forced To Drop "news"?

Fri Oct 05, 2012 2:20 am

Quoting Dreadnought (Reply 6):
I think you simply have a low tolerance for differing opinions. Just deal with it.

I completely agree that the definition of 'news' is ambiguous; after-all, to many, gossiping about what Honey Boo Boo did last night is news more-so than what's going on in Syria. But I do have a problem with Fox News marketing itself as "fair and balanced" when it is neither nor. Many companies have received large fines and/or cease and desist notices for using more accurate slogans. Fox sometimes attempts to get around its slogan by iterating that "fair and balanced" refers to a right voice in a left media, yet often displays stories of supposed media bias while declaring 'that's why you get only the fair and balanced story from us' -- which is total BS, as Fox often won't promote stories that go against its ideology.

Up until the year or so, Fox use to have -- without a single doubt in my opinion -- the best newscasts anywhere, and kept the ideology stuff to entertainment hours. Not true anymore. I enjoy reading multiple viewpoints to educate & develop my own, but "BREAKING NEWS: Obama Named Worst President Ever" should be kept on the entertainment side.

(And for the record, I'm no Obama supporter.)
Gordo:like this streaming video,Sky magazine,meals for sale at mealtime-make customer satisfaction rank so high at UA
 
User avatar
DeltaMD90
Posts: 8245
Joined: Tue Apr 15, 2008 11:25 pm

RE: Should FOX News/MSNBC Be Forced To Drop "news"?

Fri Oct 05, 2012 2:29 am

Quoting CompensateMe (Reply 17):
But I do have a problem with Fox News marketing itself as "fair and balanced" when it is neither nor.

And there are many that think it is (I don't watch them so please don't drag me down that road.) I'm sure you don't think CNN is communist left-wing biased trash but others do. Should we shut them down? See how silly this argument is? And for what, to fight a battle you'll probably lose that will just enrage and polarize people more and will change nothing except "FOX News" to "FOX Channel" or whatever?
Ironically I have never flown a Delta MD-90 :)
 
compensateme
Posts: 1600
Joined: Wed Jan 28, 2009 4:17 am

RE: Should FOX News/MSNBC Be Forced To Drop "news"?

Fri Oct 05, 2012 3:11 am

Quoting DeltaMD90 (Reply 18):
And there are many that think it is (I don't watch them so please don't drag me down that road.) I'm sure you don't think CNN is communist left-wing biased trash but others do.

People believe this because Fox has convinced them it's true.

Quoting DeltaMD90 (Reply 18):
Should we shut them down? See how silly this argument is? And for what, to fight a battle you'll probably lose that will just enrage and polarize people more and will change nothing except "FOX News" to "FOX Channel" or whatever?

I don't believe Fox should be shut down or have to change its name from Fox News Channel (as I mentioned earlier, the concept of news is ambiguous). But I do believe Fox should refrain from calling itself "fair and balanced," when it's blatantly false. Nor do I believe any regulation should force Fox from dropping the tagline, although I do believe the network should make the initiative on its own.
Gordo:like this streaming video,Sky magazine,meals for sale at mealtime-make customer satisfaction rank so high at UA
 
CometII
Topic Author
Posts: 291
Joined: Tue Dec 28, 1999 6:02 am

RE: Should FOX News/MSNBC Be Forced To Drop "news"?

Fri Oct 05, 2012 4:15 am

Quoting Ken777 (Reply 13):
I watched CNN immediately after the debate

So did I, by far the best coverage and i didn't have to flip around to get a liberal and conservative view on the debate.

I knew some of you would say the government should not step in. I tend to agree. I should have clarified that "we, the consumers", should force them to stop treating us like fools.

Don't you all feel patronized being told that "we are telling you the facts tonight, on Hannity!" or "this is the real truth, and only Ed Schulz will reveal it to you." Why can't they just say, look this is how I see it. I just don't like the shameless dishonesty about their purposes.

Perhaps it has not reached that level, but as someone said, if something becomes trully egregious then a government has the right to set some standards (even if those who like non-intrusive govermment feel it is dangerous).

The argument could be made these two networks with their completely skewed bias are in fact stoking polarization in the country. Of course it probably still rises nowhere near the grounds to jeopardize their 1st amendment.

But I do fear that one day either Fox or MSNBC will go too far in trying to demonize the other side and some lunatic will act and such act be directly linked to their programming.
 
zippyjet
Posts: 5077
Joined: Tue Sep 04, 2001 3:32 pm

RE: Should FOX News/MSNBC Be Forced To Drop "news"?

Fri Oct 05, 2012 4:35 am

When they both go off the chains in their respective views leanings it makes great comic relief and Fox has some bodacious babes with extreme sexy legs.
I'm Zippyjet & I approve of this message!
 
MAH4546
Posts: 24522
Joined: Wed Jan 24, 2001 1:44 pm

RE: Should FOX News/MSNBC Be Forced To Drop "news"?

Fri Oct 05, 2012 6:44 am

Quoting AirframeAS (Reply 10):

Quoting CometII (Thread starter):

Simply put, it ain't ever gonna happen under the First Amendment.


Ummm, no. The first amendment absolutely does not protect against false advertising. Advertising is unprotected speech if it's false or misleading, and as such a court could absoutely find that MSNBC, but not Fox News, must stop advertising itself as a news channel.
a.
 
soon7x7
Posts: 2267
Joined: Thu May 04, 2006 10:51 am

RE: Should FOX News/MSNBC Be Forced To Drop "news"?

Fri Oct 05, 2012 11:07 am

Quoting Dreadnought (Reply 6):
I think you simply have a low tolerance for differing opinions. Just deal with it.

Well said!...Other than BBC, London, Al Jazeera, Fox news delivers enough of what I look for...as for the others...I'm not interested. I tune them out just like those that shun Fox!...Don't like Fox?...then tune out,...problem solved...
 
rfields5421
Posts: 5550
Joined: Thu Jul 19, 2007 12:45 am

RE: Should FOX News/MSNBC Be Forced To Drop "news"?

Fri Oct 05, 2012 1:02 pm

Quoting Dreadnought (Reply 6):
I think you simply have a low tolerance for differing opinions. Just deal with it.

I personally have a high demand for differing opinions.

I just dislike the lies from news presenters on Fox that their opinions are fact.

My personal opinion is that FoxNews ranks a bit below Wikipedia as a source of factual information.

[Edited 2012-10-05 06:03:20]
 
User avatar
Dreadnought
Posts: 9821
Joined: Tue Feb 19, 2008 6:31 pm

RE: Should FOX News/MSNBC Be Forced To Drop "news"?

Fri Oct 05, 2012 2:15 pm

Quoting rfields5421 (Reply 24):
I just dislike the lies from news presenters on Fox that their opinions are fact.

Like what? I hear a lot of spin from the morning show people, and from guys like Hannity, but lies? When have they said "X happened" and it did not?
Forget dogs and cats - Spay and neuter your liberals.
 
compensateme
Posts: 1600
Joined: Wed Jan 28, 2009 4:17 am

RE: Should FOX News/MSNBC Be Forced To Drop "news"?

Fri Oct 05, 2012 2:26 pm

Quoting mah4546 (Reply 22):
Ummm, no. The first amendment absolutely does not protect against false advertising. Advertising is unprotected speech if it's false or misleading, and as such a court could absoutely find that MSNBC, but not Fox News, must stop advertising itself as a news channel.

And who would rule that besides a highly conservative court?

The fact is, both MSNBC and Fox News have ditched (mostly, but not completely) traditional news format within the past year in favor of a highly partisan tabloid-type format. The difference is much of the brass of MSNBC freely admits this, whereas Fox News continues to falsely market itself as "fair and balanced." I've seen numerous stories on Fox which were highly edited & constructed to show only one point of view, and then they were followed by "bias alerts" in which Fox attempts to claim liberal bias in the media while reiterating it's "fair and balanced." In fact, Fox is attempting to create news (as we saw the other day in which a "bombshell" video -- the one that's been on Youtube for years and previously analyzed by Fox News itself -- was 'just' discovered 'coincidentally' while Romney struggled with his 47% remarks).

It's a fact that the human mind tends to believe only what it wants to believe. If you enjoy watching MSNBC, Fox News or Here Comes Honey Boo Boo, then keep watching. But don't tell me that you have a "fair and balanced" view of an issue, because you don't.
Gordo:like this streaming video,Sky magazine,meals for sale at mealtime-make customer satisfaction rank so high at UA
 
D L X
Posts: 11640
Joined: Thu May 27, 1999 3:30 am

RE: Should FOX News/MSNBC Be Forced To Drop "news"?

Fri Oct 05, 2012 2:53 pm

Quoting Dreadnought (Reply 25):
When have they said "X happened" and it did not?

When they said Obama was schooled in a Madrassa in Indonesia, for one. That's just off the top of my head.

But as I noted before, I do not think the government should force Fox to strip "News" from its name, even with their occasionally egregious journalistic mistakes.
 
User avatar
casinterest
Posts: 5358
Joined: Sat Feb 12, 2005 5:30 am

RE: Should FOX News/MSNBC Be Forced To Drop "news"?

Fri Oct 05, 2012 3:28 pm

Quoting Dreadnought (Reply 25):
but lies? When have they said "X happened" and it did not?

Hmmm from this week.
Secret Video Tape:


http://www.washingtonpost.com/blogs/...c-11e2-bb5e-492c0d30bff6_blog.html
Older than I just was ,and younger than I will soo be.
 
User avatar
Dreadnought
Posts: 9821
Joined: Tue Feb 19, 2008 6:31 pm

RE: Should FOX News/MSNBC Be Forced To Drop "news"?

Fri Oct 05, 2012 5:17 pm

Quoting casinterest (Reply 28):
Hmmm from this week.
Secret Video Tape:

Hannity is op-ed, like a number of people on MSNBC and elsewhere. Hannity never has presented himself to be a newscaster or reporter. Do you have any examples of Fox's News programming airing anything like that?
Forget dogs and cats - Spay and neuter your liberals.
 
User avatar
casinterest
Posts: 5358
Joined: Sat Feb 12, 2005 5:30 am

RE: Should FOX News/MSNBC Be Forced To Drop "news"?

Fri Oct 05, 2012 5:23 pm

Quoting Dreadnought (Reply 29):
Hannity is op-ed, like a number of people on MSNBC and elsewhere. Hannity never has presented himself to be a newscaster or reporter. Do you have any examples of Fox's News programming airing anything like that?

Even a better reason to drop news from the tittle of the station   The issue here is where Fox News presents anything as lies, and Hannity is presenting lies.
Older than I just was ,and younger than I will soo be.
 
D L X
Posts: 11640
Joined: Thu May 27, 1999 3:30 am

RE: Should FOX News/MSNBC Be Forced To Drop "news"?

Fri Oct 05, 2012 5:48 pm

Quoting Dreadnought (Reply 29):
Hannity is op-ed

He's still bears a "Fox News" banner on his show, does he not?

If the argument that he is under the brand of News holds, and he is not presenting news, then the argument is valid as to Hannity.
 
rfields5421
Posts: 5550
Joined: Thu Jul 19, 2007 12:45 am

RE: Should FOX News/MSNBC Be Forced To Drop "news"?

Fri Oct 05, 2012 10:00 pm

Quoting Dreadnought (Reply 25):
Like what?

This morning Fox News said several times the employment numbers were 'cooked' by the administration.

They might have been, but they have not proof. Stating an opinion, no matter how likely, as fact is lying.

Quoting Dreadnought (Reply 29):
Hannity is op-ed,

Then why is he continually quoted on Fox as a source of facts?
 
AirframeAS
Posts: 9811
Joined: Thu Feb 05, 2004 3:56 pm

RE: Should FOX News/MSNBC Be Forced To Drop "news"?

Sat Oct 06, 2012 12:21 am

Quoting mah4546 (Reply 22):
Ummm, no. The first amendment absolutely does not protect against false advertising. Advertising is unprotected speech if it's false or misleading, and as such a court could absoutely find that MSNBC, but not Fox News, must stop advertising itself as a news channel.

Uhmm, no. The last time I checked, this isn't Russia. FOX and MSNBC can call themselves whatever they'd like. It's a business. And the the First Amendment still applies: Freedom of the Press.
A Safe Flight Begins With Quality Maintenance On The Ground.
 
MAH4546
Posts: 24522
Joined: Wed Jan 24, 2001 1:44 pm

RE: Should FOX News/MSNBC Be Forced To Drop "news"?

Sat Oct 06, 2012 4:05 am

Quoting AirframeAS (Reply 33):
Uhmm, no. The last time I checked, this isn't Russia. FOX and MSNBC can call themselves whatever they'd like. It's a business. And the the First Amendment still applies: Freedom of the Press.

Um, no. Please read a first amendment casebook before claiming these things. You are wrong.

Commercial speech is allowed to be regulated.

Not only can it be regulated under the comstitutional laws that govern commercial speech, but it can also be regulated under trademark law as a false or misleading trademark.

Freedom of the press is irrelevant. We aren't talking about what they report - we are talking about what they call themselves.

But what do I know, I'm just a law school graduate, not like I ever studied this.

[Edited 2012-10-05 21:08:55]
a.
 
cws818
Posts: 824
Joined: Sat Aug 30, 2008 7:42 am

RE: Should FOX News/MSNBC Be Forced To Drop "news"?

Sat Oct 06, 2012 4:19 am

Quoting mah4546 (Reply 22):
The first amendment absolutely does not protect against false advertising. Advertising is unprotected speech if it's false or misleading, and as such a court could absoutely find that MSNBC, but not Fox News, must stop advertising itself as a news channel.

Your recitation of the law is accurate, however your conclusion requires a great deal of explanation.
volgende halte...Station Hollands Spoor
 
kiwiinoz
Posts: 1999
Joined: Mon Oct 10, 2005 3:07 pm

RE: Should FOX News/MSNBC Be Forced To Drop "news"?

Sat Oct 06, 2012 4:51 am

I get what you are saying. But I find even some of my most hard core Republican American friends refer to Fox as "news" with their tongue firmly planted in cheek. I think there is a general acceptance that it is primarily an opinion forum.

I think where it can hurt is with international perception. Foreigners who watch it could easily cite it as a justification for their own misguided stereotypical view of America and Americans, (insular, ethnocentric, soundbytish......unintelligent even).

I find it quite amusing and cleverly put together. It's entertainment, not news.
 
CONTACREW
Posts: 535
Joined: Sun Feb 05, 2012 4:29 pm

RE: Should FOX News/MSNBC Be Forced To Drop "news"?

Sat Oct 06, 2012 5:20 am

IMHO Fox News & MSNBC should just go off the air.
Flight Attendants prepare doors for departure, cross check verify straps standby for all call
 
D L X
Posts: 11640
Joined: Thu May 27, 1999 3:30 am

RE: Should FOX News/MSNBC Be Forced To Drop "news"?

Sat Oct 06, 2012 5:57 am

Quoting mah4546 (Reply 34):
But what do I know, I'm just a law school graduate, not like I ever studied this.

Careful. Talk like that will make you a pariah on this site.  
 
User avatar
par13del
Posts: 6670
Joined: Sun Dec 18, 2005 9:14 pm

RE: Should FOX News/MSNBC Be Forced To Drop "news"?

Sat Oct 06, 2012 1:22 pm

Quoting CompensateMe (Reply 19):
People believe this because Fox has convinced them it's true.

Some time ago a politician aspiring for the higest office made mention that the news media was powerful and was influencing the minds of the American people, at that time he was laughed off the stage, maybe he had a point?

What is lost in this entire debate on the supposed Third Estate is that these are for profit organizations who are selling a product that the American people will buy, I don't see PBS mentioned anywhere in the above responses.
Unlike BBC for example where citizens are charged a fee, other than the actual government news media, these private organization are funded by ads and license fees, and the analysis done is not on what is fair and balanced but what will play to X region of the country, how much the rate could be, which stations in the local market is needed, which to get rid of, etc. etc. etc. Is someone somewhere looking at whether they are actually news, probably, but it is not the driving factor behind how these organizations choose to market and promote themselves via their programming.
 
Geezer
Posts: 1413
Joined: Wed Aug 18, 2010 4:37 am

RE: Should FOX News/MSNBC Be Forced To Drop "news"?

Tue Oct 09, 2012 4:56 am

This whole thread points out one thing; there a LOT more people on this forum who DON"T like Fox News, than there are people who DO like Fox News; keeping that fact in mind, ask yourself this question; "How in the hell does Fox News manage to stay on the air ?" Ever wonder about that ?

What you are all overlooking here is, you are "assuming" that there are far more people who despise Fox News, than there are people who LIKE Fox News; when in fact, if your "assumption" was correct, Fox News would already be history !

But guess what.........roughly four times as many people watch Fox News, as watch MSNBC ! This would indicate to me that it's YOUR "opinion" that's out-of-step with the overall "viewing public", rather than Fox News. It's a business, folks ! A business for which there is quite a large market; and if and when that market ceases to exist, Fox News will cease to exist.

Why do you suppose advertising on Network TV costs "so much" during the Super Bowl ? I'm sure you are all aware of the answer to that; ( because there are so MANY viewers tuned in ! ) That's also precisely why Fox News commands a higher advertising rate than MSNBC does...........because there are 4 times as many people watching.

Don't believe me ? Just try pricing an ad on both.

Let's face it; be honest with yourselves; the main reason you despise Fox News is because Fox News never says anything good about Obama; ( and many of you supported Obama, and I'm guessing that many of you will support him in November ) So will 98% of the people on MSNBC.

So because Fox News says negative things about a guy you plan to vote for, you think Fox News should be "forced" to "change it's name ? To "Fox Channel" ? Oh........and all of these "lies" that Sean Hannity is telling ? Please.......point them out to me; tell me EXACTLY what Hannity is saying that's a "lie".

In the meantime.........if you really are interested in hearing the truth..........read "The Amateur" Barack Obama In The White House; then tell me if you still plan to support him. ( I'm guessing that no one will run out and buy the book.)'

Charley
Stupidity: Doing the same thing over and over again and expecting a different result; Albert Einstein
 
kiwiinoz
Posts: 1999
Joined: Mon Oct 10, 2005 3:07 pm

RE: Should FOX News/MSNBC Be Forced To Drop "news"?

Tue Oct 09, 2012 9:25 am

Quoting Geezer (Reply 39):
This whole thread points out one thing; there a LOT more people on this forum who DON"T like Fox News, than there are people who DO like Fox News; keeping that fact in mind, ask yourself this question; "How in the hell does Fox News manage to stay on the air ?" Ever wonder about that ?

What you are all overlooking here is, you are "assuming" that there are far more people who despise Fox News, than there are people who LIKE Fox News; when in fact, if your "assumption" was correct, Fox News would already be history !

But guess what.........roughly four times as many people watch Fox News, as watch MSNBC ! This would indicate to me that it's YOUR "opinion" that's out-of-step with the overall "viewing public", rather than Fox News. It's a business, folks ! A business for which there is quite a large market; and if and when that market ceases to exist, Fox News will cease to exist.

Why do you suppose advertising on Network TV costs "so much" during the Super Bowl ? I'm sure you are all aware of the answer to that; ( because there are so MANY viewers tuned in ! ) That's also precisely why Fox News commands a higher advertising rate than MSNBC does...........because there are 4 times as many people watching.

Don't believe me ? Just try pricing an ad on both.

Let's face it; be honest with yourselves; the main reason you despise Fox News is because Fox News never says anything good about Obama; ( and many of you supported Obama, and I'm guessing that many of you will support him in November ) So will 98% of the people on MSNBC.

So because Fox News says negative things about a guy you plan to vote for, you think Fox News should be "forced" to "change it's name ? To "Fox Channel" ? Oh........and all of these "lies" that Sean Hannity is telling ? Please.......point them out to me; tell me EXACTLY what Hannity is saying that's a "lie".

In the meantime.........if you really are interested in hearing the truth..........read "The Amateur" Barack Obama In The White House; then tell me if you still plan to support him. ( I'm guessing that no one will run out and buy the book.)'

Actually, I think the question from the thread starter is phrased correctly and asks something different. Whether or not people like it is not in question, (there is no doubt that people do). Whether or not it qualifies as "news" is the question at hand. And if not, should they be allowed to use that title.

I personally do not think it qualifies as news, it is editorial/opinion/entertainment. The fact that, (as your response suggests), it has a significant political slant supports this position. But I do not think it should be forced to change, (I assume there is no legal definition of what constitutes "news"). It is a little misleading but I don't think the news classification is contrary to the public interest, or broadcasting integrity.
 
soon7x7
Posts: 2267
Joined: Thu May 04, 2006 10:51 am

RE: Should FOX News/MSNBC Be Forced To Drop "news"?

Tue Oct 09, 2012 10:46 am

Quoting Geezer (Reply 39):
Let's face it; be honest with yourselves; the main reason you despise Fox News is because Fox News never says anything good about Obama; ( and many of you supported Obama, and I'm guessing that many of you will support him in November ) So will 98% of the people on MSNBC.

Bingo!...And now Obama himself didn't have anything good to say when he had to perform in a Presidential debate...I suppose that too is the fault of FOX. I watch them everyday as they are the most informed and they entertain me while the others...just the same old drool.
 
User avatar
casinterest
Posts: 5358
Joined: Sat Feb 12, 2005 5:30 am

RE: Should FOX News/MSNBC Be Forced To Drop "news"?

Tue Oct 09, 2012 11:49 am

Quoting Geezer (Reply 39):
and all of these "lies" that Sean Hannity is telling ? Please.......point them out to me; tell me EXACTLY what Hannity is saying that's a "lie".

Posted above. Please reread the thread for some fair and balanced critixism of Hannity. He is nothing of a news reporter. he is highly biased and cuts out any dissent he can't reasonably argue with ,

Quoting Geezer (Reply 39):
This whole thread points out one thing; there a LOT more people on this forum who DON"T like Fox News, than there are people who DO like Fox News; keeping that fact in mind, ask yourself this question; "How in the hell does Fox News manage to stay on the air ?" Ever wonder about that ?

No one challenged the popularity of it. This is where you are mixed up on your interpretation. It just doesn't qualify as fair or balanced or even news in most aspects where it makes most of it's money .

Quoting Geezer (Reply 39):
In the meantime.........if you really are interested in hearing the truth..........read "The Amateur" Barack Obama In The White House; then tell me if you still plan to support him. ( I'm guessing that no one will run out and buy the book.)'

And hear you go spouting the "truth" as abook that has so much slant it makes left look right.
Older than I just was ,and younger than I will soo be.
 
D L X
Posts: 11640
Joined: Thu May 27, 1999 3:30 am

RE: Should FOX News/MSNBC Be Forced To Drop "news"?

Tue Oct 09, 2012 12:18 pm

Quoting Geezer (Reply 39):
This whole thread points out one thing; there a LOT more people on this forum who DON"T like Fox News, than there are people who DO like Fox News; keeping that fact in mind, ask yourself this question; "How in the hell does Fox News manage to stay on the air ?" Ever wonder about that ?

Well that's easy... they make money off the people that DO like Fox News.

A lot more people hate the Yankees than love them, but it should come as no surprise that they're the most profitable baseball team.

You don't make money based on how many people hate you, or even what percentage of the people hate you. That's just the wrong metric to use.

Quoting Geezer (Reply 39):
Oh........and all of these "lies" that Sean Hannity is telling ? Please.......point them out to me

What this comment proves yet again is that the people who like Fox News will never accept it when they see Fox News caught telling a lie. We can point it out over and over again, but there is no point: you will never accept that they have lied, and if you ever did, you would forget it 10 minutes later.
 
CometII
Topic Author
Posts: 291
Joined: Tue Dec 28, 1999 6:02 am

RE: Should FOX News/MSNBC Be Forced To Drop "news"?

Tue Oct 09, 2012 1:36 pm

Quoting soon7x7 (Reply 41):
Bingo!...And now Obama himself didn't have anything good to say when he had to perform in a Presidential debate...I suppose that too is the fault of FOX. I watch them everyday as they are the most informed and they entertain me while the others...just the same old drool.

Let's see... Wednesday night MSNBC was "reporting" and their commentators were analyzing that Romney was the winner of the debate. The very next day, MSNBC was massaging that analysis by professing Romney "lied" throughout. The lie story began if I'm not mistaken at the Dems spin rooom after the debate.

If Obama does well, it is because of his intellect. If not, he is made look bad because the opposition "lies".

Last week, FOX news had as their front story the uncovering of a major conspiracy in the polls, which they claim had been cooked to favor Obama. This week those very exact same polls show a major bounce for Romney, and FOX has as their lead story "the bounce". Suddenly the polls are not cooked anylonger??

If a commerce Dpt. report shows economic strength, it is a conspiracy. If it shows weakness, they run with it.

If you like to be insulted in your intelligence in such a overt form, be my guest. Just because you ideologically identify with one or the other, does not erase the fact they don't respect you as a viewer.
 
rfields5421
Posts: 5550
Joined: Thu Jul 19, 2007 12:45 am

RE: Should FOX News/MSNBC Be Forced To Drop "news"?

Tue Oct 09, 2012 2:20 pm

Quoting Geezer (Reply 39):
Let's face it; be honest with yourselves; the main reason you despise Fox News is because Fox News never says anything good about Obama;

No.

Because Fox News constantly cites opinion of their op-ed folks as fact. Because news anchors frequently express personal opinions about the 'news'.

If the US had requirement for 'equal time' of cable channels like we had back in the 60s for broadcast channels, Fox News could not exist today as a news network. However, cable channels have never been subject to the requirement to provide balance in news coverage.

This is one reason that Fox does not broadcast most of the Fox News Channel programs on their over the air channels.

Because Fox News knows their programs do not meet any definition of balanced news coverage.
 
seb146
Posts: 13796
Joined: Wed Dec 01, 1999 7:19 am

RE: Should FOX News/MSNBC Be Forced To Drop "news"?

Tue Oct 09, 2012 3:29 pm

Quoting Geezer (Reply 39):
when in fact, if your "assumption" was correct, Fox News would already be history !

Kinda like how MSNBC has gone off the air? Oh, wait...

Quoting Geezer (Reply 39):
roughly four times as many people watch Fox News, as watch MSNBC !

??? Those are bogus numbers. FOX is simply "on" in a lot of places. Does not mean people actually watch it. Those who do, however, believe every last word and refuse to believe anything else. Further, those same people believe everyone who has a different opinion are evil and hate America and believe the only way to silence those so-called "liberals" is to talk louder and faster about half-truths.
Life in the wall is a drag.
 
User avatar
Dreadnought
Posts: 9821
Joined: Tue Feb 19, 2008 6:31 pm

RE: Should FOX News/MSNBC Be Forced To Drop "news"?

Tue Oct 09, 2012 4:04 pm

Quoting casinterest (Reply 42):
Posted above. Please reread the thread for some fair and balanced critixism of Hannity. He is nothing of a news reporter. he is highly biased and cuts out any dissent he can't reasonably argue with

The main attraction of Hannity is that he does invite liberal guests on his show and argues/debates with them. He lets them have their say. His show is not an echo chamber where only like-minded people are invited.

Quoting seb146 (Reply 46):
Does not mean people actually watch it. Those who do, however, believe every last word and refuse to believe anything else.

Sounds you are pretty opinionated and prejudiced yourself. On what do you base your belief that "Those who do, however, believe every last word and refuse to believe anything else."?
Forget dogs and cats - Spay and neuter your liberals.
 
User avatar
casinterest
Posts: 5358
Joined: Sat Feb 12, 2005 5:30 am

RE: Should FOX News/MSNBC Be Forced To Drop "news"?

Tue Oct 09, 2012 5:56 pm

Quoting Dreadnought (Reply 47):
The main attraction of Hannity is that he does invite liberal guests on his show and argues/debates with them. He lets them have their say. His show is not an echo chamber where only like-minded people are invited.

He invites no one with which he can not just cut off when he has no recourse. He pounds on facts that are incorrect or baseless, without any repercussions. The repercussions he does face from external sources do not affect him since his audience is only in tune to what he says . Kind of in the same way that Chavez keeps getting elected ot be Venezueala's president.
Older than I just was ,and younger than I will soo be.
 
User avatar
Dreadnought
Posts: 9821
Joined: Tue Feb 19, 2008 6:31 pm

RE: Should FOX News/MSNBC Be Forced To Drop "news"?

Tue Oct 09, 2012 6:17 pm

Quoting casinterest (Reply 48):
He invites no one with which he can not just cut off when he has no recourse.

Here is his guest list. Do you mean to tell me that nobody on there will shout right back at him? I've seen some pretty animated matches on his show.

http://www.hannity.com/guests/politicians

Quoting casinterest (Reply 48):
He pounds on facts that are incorrect or baseless, without any repercussions


On occasion. Chris Matthews / Rachel Madcow don't?

[Edited 2012-10-09 11:20:39]
Forget dogs and cats - Spay and neuter your liberals.

Who is online

Users browsing this forum: Alexa [Bot], Baidu [Spider], Braybuddy and 12 guests