Superfly
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Obama Bribing For Votes? Free Obamaphones?

Fri Oct 05, 2012 7:12 am

Is this for real?  Wow!
When I first heard about this, I just dismissed it as right-wing propaganda but after seeing the infamous Obamaphone lady and then did some research, this is a real. Totally shocking!
If this isn't bribery for votes then I don't know what to call it.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tpAOwJvTOio

http://obamaphone.net/


I'm all in favor of helping the poor but a free cellphone is a bit much and the timing of this is suspect. I don't mean to poke fun of this lady but she reminds me of Gilbert Gottfried.
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BMI727
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RE: Obama Bribing For Votes? Free Obamaphones?

Fri Oct 05, 2012 7:37 am

Quoting Superfly (Thread starter):
I'm all in favor of helping the poor but a free cellphone is a bit much and the timing of this is suspect.

I'm cool with it. Chalk it up as a Homeland Security line item. Emergency services are useless if they cannot be accessed, and let's remember that the Times Square car bomb was discovered by some street vendors, so it's not at all out of the realm of possibility that something similar could be discovered by a homeless person.

I'm far less scandalized by the idea of distributing cheap phones to poor people than I am befuddled as to why they couldn't also be issued ID cards so they can vote.
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Superfly
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RE: Obama Bribing For Votes? Free Obamaphones?

Fri Oct 05, 2012 7:41 am

Quoting BMI727 (Reply 1):
I am befuddled as to why they couldn't also be issued ID cards so they can vote.

Good point.

Quoting BMI727 (Reply 1):
distributing cheap phones to poor people

What kind of phones are these? Are they iphones?
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moo
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RE: Obama Bribing For Votes? Free Obamaphones?

Fri Oct 05, 2012 9:06 am

Actually its a continuation of a policy put in place by Ronald Reagan and the GOP in 1984.

http://transition.fcc.gov/Bureaus/Co.../FCC-State_Link/Monitor/mr98-2.pdf
 
Superfly
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RE: Obama Bribing For Votes? Free Obamaphones?

Fri Oct 05, 2012 9:14 am

Quoting moo (Reply 3):
Actually its a continuation of a policy put in place by Ronald Reagan and the GOP in 1984.



No it's not. I'm well aware of the lifeline program to help low income people with their basic phone service. I don't recall that policy ever giving out free telephones. You still had to buy your own phone
Anyone that had a car phone or celluar phone in 1984 was super-wealthy.
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moo
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RE: Obama Bribing For Votes? Free Obamaphones?

Fri Oct 05, 2012 9:21 am

Quoting Superfly (Reply 4):
I'm well aware of the lifeline program to help low income people with their basic phone service. I don't recall that policy ever giving out free telephones.

Very few people owned a phone in 1984, most of them were rented from the service provider and hence the 1984 program included coverage of that phone rental as well.

Quoting Superfly (Reply 4):
Anyone that had a car phone or celluar phone in 1984 was super-wealthy.

Yes, but what does that have to do with this at all? Today, cellular phones are the predominant phone service around so it makes sense that the program covers them today rather than a fixed land line.

Obama hasn't passed anything new, its all covered under the act that Reagan instantiated.
 
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moo
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RE: Obama Bribing For Votes? Free Obamaphones?

Fri Oct 05, 2012 9:24 am

Oh, and its worth pointing out that the migration to free cell phones happened in 2008 under GWB.

http://www.factcheck.org/2009/10/the-obama-phone/

Quote:

SafeLink Wireless, [...], does indeed offer a cell phone, about one hour’s worth of calling time per month, and other wireless services like voice mail to eligible low-income households. Applicants have to apply and prove that they are either receiving certain types of government benefits, such as Medicaid, or have household incomes at or below 135 percent of the poverty line. Using 2009 poverty guidelines, that’s $14,620 for an individual and a little under $30,000 for a family of four, with slightly higher amounts for Alaska and Hawaii.

...

The SafeLink program has actually been offering cell phones to low-income households in some states since 2008
 
Superfly
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RE: Obama Bribing For Votes? Free Obamaphones?

Fri Oct 05, 2012 9:46 am

Quoting moo (Reply 5):
Very few people owned a phone in 1984,

Huh? Everybody owned a phone in 1984.
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moo
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RE: Obama Bribing For Votes? Free Obamaphones?

Fri Oct 05, 2012 9:54 am

Quoting Superfly (Reply 7):
Huh? Everybody owned a phone in 1984.

Everyone had a phone, but I think you will find that most people rented them from the telecoms company they had service with.

But this side discussion is taking us away from the core point - Drudge and the GOP are well off base here.
 
Superfly
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RE: Obama Bribing For Votes? Free Obamaphones?

Fri Oct 05, 2012 10:04 am

So if what you're saying is true, how come Obama is trying to take credit for a policy started by Reagan & Bush?
The lady in the video and many others that recently got free cellphones in the swing state of Ohio are under the impression that this is a new program provided from President Obama.

Are these iPhones? O-phones? W-phones? R-Phones?

Quoting moo (Reply 8):
Everyone had a phone, but I think you will find that most people rented them from the telecoms company they had service with.



I do remember those days when the phone companies had monopolies. Some were bought and some were rented. A neighbor of ours had a phone that looked and quacked like a duck.  
Quoting moo (Reply 8):
But this side discussion is taking us away from the core point - Drudge and the GOP are well off base here.


Who said anything about "Drudge" or the "GOP"?  confused 
I posted a link from YouTube and an Obama site.

[Edited 2012-10-05 03:08:39]
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moo
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RE: Obama Bribing For Votes? Free Obamaphones?

Fri Oct 05, 2012 10:17 am

Quoting Superfly (Reply 9):
So if what you're saying is true, how come Obama is trying to take credit for a policy started by Reagan & Bush?
The lady in the video and many others that recently got free cellphones in the swing state of Ohio are under the impression that this is a new program provided from President Obama.

Post some proof that Obama is trying to take the credit, rather than some random woman (who could be a pro-Republican plant for all we know - we don't know much about the heritage of that clip, or the woman involved) giving credit.

Theres a huge difference between the two.

Quoting Superfly (Reply 9):
Who said anything about "Drudge" or the "GOP"?

Drudge was the first people to release the video, and the GOP jumped on it - you aren't the first person to start this discussion.

Quoting Superfly (Reply 9):
I posted a link from YouTube and an Obama site.

Unfortunately, it looks like you've been taken in somewhat by a fake site - just because it has "Obama" plastered all over the place doesn't mean it has anything to do with Obama at all.

Firstly, a government body or political party would not be using Dreamhost to host an important website, and secondly the code is horrendous (its a WordPress site with a standard theme, not even a custom theme), and thirdly the "apply for a phone" link goes off to a site run by a private marketing company called "Free Government Cell Phones".

Not very convincing once you actually realise that theres no way in hell an official program would be advertised as "Obama [Anything]" as "ObamaCare" has bee used as a derogatory term since day one.
 
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RE: Obama Bribing For Votes? Free Obamaphones?

Fri Oct 05, 2012 10:27 am

Quoting Superfly (Reply 9):
So if what you're saying is true, how come Obama is trying to take credit for a policy started by Reagan & Bush?

He's not. He's just be stuck with it because it became known under his watch.

Quoting Superfly (Reply 9):
Are these iPhones? O-phones? W-phones? R-Phones?

Remember those cheapie "Free cell phone with plan" phones that had a 1 inch screen back in the 1998-2002 era? Similar to those. Nothing fancy. No data plan. In fact, until I upgraded to my HTC a couple years ago because of the AT&T buyout in my area, it's all I used as well, because it was all I needed at the time.
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Superfly
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RE: Obama Bribing For Votes? Free Obamaphones?

Fri Oct 05, 2012 10:30 am

Quoting moo (Reply 10):
Post some proof that Obama is trying to take the credit,


Hey I'm simply asking questions. Notice the "?" question marks at the end of each sentence?

Quoting moo (Reply 10):
Drudge was the first people to release the video, and the GOP jumped on it -


Thanks for the origins of the story.

Quoting moo (Reply 10):
you aren't the first person to start this discussion.


Never claimed this to be "breaking news".
I found nothing in the search engine of the forums.

Quoting moo (Reply 10):
Unfortunately, it looks like you've been taken in somewhat by a fake site


Not really. I haven't send any money.  
Quoting moo (Reply 10):
Firstly, a government body or political party would not be using Dreamhost to host an important website, and secondly the code is horrendous (its a WordPress site with a standard theme, not even a custom theme), and thirdly the "apply for a phone" link goes off to a site run by a private marketing company called "Free Government Cell Phones".



Thanks for doing the research.  
Quoting moo (Reply 10):
"ObamaCare" has bee used as a derogatory term since day one.


I never saw it as a derogatory term. Since it's supposed to be a good thing, there should be no shame in attaching his name to it.
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moo
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RE: Obama Bribing For Votes? Free Obamaphones?

Fri Oct 05, 2012 10:36 am

Quoting Superfly (Reply 12):
Hey I'm simply asking questions. Notice the "?" question marks at the end of each sentence?

Unfortunately, the format of the question does imply that you think Obama is taking credit. My personal belief (without looking into whether this has already been debunked, so it might have) is that the woman in the video is a plant by a pro-Republican campaign group (so, not officially linked to the Republican campaign) with the intention of creating this story.

Quoting Superfly (Reply 12):
Never claimed this to be "breaking news".

Sorry, wasn't saying you were - I was just implying that theres already been a lot of discussion on this since it broke a few days ago  
Quoting Superfly (Reply 12):
Not really. I haven't send any money.  

But unfortunately you have reposted it as attributed to Obama, which is exactly what the sites creators wanted   Thats all I meant!

Quoting Superfly (Reply 12):
I never saw it as a derogatory term. Since it's supposed to be a good thing, there should be no shame in attaching his name to it.

I agree, but unfortunately its always been attacked as "ObamaCare", and derided as "ObamaCare". Theres an awful lot of negativity been pushed into the name these days, especially in the perception of the general public.
 
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RE: Obama Bribing For Votes? Free Obamaphones?

Fri Oct 05, 2012 10:46 am

Quoting moo (Reply 13):
Unfortunately, the format of the question does imply that you think Obama is taking credit.


Nah I'm just being lazy. 
Quoting moo (Reply 13):
the woman in the video is a plant by a pro-Republican campaign group


She does one hell of an act if she is just a plant. I think she's the real-deal.

Quoting moo (Reply 13):
But unfortunately you have reposted it as attributed to Obama, which is exactly what the sites creators wanted Thats all I meant!


No biggie. After looking closely it does look more like a spoof site. A well crafted one that isn't too far from what Obama would support.

Quoting moo (Reply 13):
I agree, but unfortunately its always been attacked as "ObamaCare", and derided as "ObamaCare". Theres an awful lot of negativity been pushed into the name these days, especially in the perception of the general public.


Heck if I were a politician that crafted legislation that was really good, I'd be proud to have my name attached to it. There many acts that are named after their sponsors - some good, some controversial such as the Pell Grant, Sarbanes/Oxley, Grahm/Rudman/Hollings, etc
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srbmod
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RE: Obama Bribing For Votes? Free Obamaphones?

Fri Oct 05, 2012 6:23 pm

We've gotten a few phone calls about these phones and it does irk me that the government is handing out subsidized cell phones. I just don't feel that a cell phone is a necessity as I know family members that don't own nor have they ever owned a cell phone because they had no need for one.

My next door neighbor's daughter got one and she gave to her teenage son as a Christmas gift. I see these "free cell phones" tents in parking lots all over town and that just irks me even more. There's no telling how much wasteful spending and corruption that is going on in this program. Like any government program, there's bound to be those abusing the system.

I just don't see the point of such a program where there are plenty of prepaid/pay as you go providers that are not that expensive and one can go into pretty much any store that sells phone cards and buy minutes for a cell phone. The phones this program are handing out are likely cheap throwaway phones that are a few years old and companies are looking for a way to dump them.
 
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casinterest
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RE: Obama Bribing For Votes? Free Obamaphones?

Fri Oct 05, 2012 6:32 pm

Quoting srbmod (Reply 19):
We've gotten a few phone calls about these phones and it does irk me that the government is handing out subsidized cell phones

It's not the government, it is the cell companies themselves using the Universal Service Fee, which was codified to Guarantee services to those in hard to reach places.

This cell company is just doing things rather smartly. hte airtime minutes are for free, and they underwrte the phones with tracphone and offer limited airtime.
then they can SELL more minutes .

https://www.safelinkwireless.com/Safelink/program_info/benefits
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bhill
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RE: Obama Bribing For Votes? Free Obamaphones?

Fri Oct 05, 2012 6:38 pm

My 82 year old mom has one of these. And it is a POS cheap phone. She gets 1 hour a month and she has to pay for any additional herself. Installing a land line phone with Verizon and AT&T, the monthly cost was out of her reach. And if you have not noticed, payphones are getting few and far between lately. As BMI727 stated, it is her only access to EMS services if she may ever need them.
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Superfly
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RE: Obama Bribing For Votes? Free Obamaphones?

Fri Oct 05, 2012 6:44 pm

Quoting srbmod (Reply 19):
it does irk me that the government is handing out subsidized cell phones.


While I support the Lifeline program to help the poor with basic land-line service, I think the free cellphone is a bit much.
Since these are new-old-stock phones, can't the manufacture just give them away directly without government involvement? I have a feeling that the manufacture may get kickbacks from the government and that cheap $30 cellphone ends up costing much more once the government is involved.

Quoting srbmod (Reply 19):
I just don't feel that a cell phone is a necessity as I know family members that don't own nor have they ever owned a cell phone because they had no need for one.


Perhaps we're showing our age? In the not to distant past, cellphones were a luxury. The under 20 crowd here can't imagine a world without cellphones. When the Lifeline program started in 1984, the only guys with cellphones drove Ferrari's and wore pin-stripe suits. They certainly didn't qualify for a free phone.

Quoting srbmod (Reply 19):
"free cell phones" tents in parking lots all over town and that just irks me even more. There's no telling how much wasteful spending and corruption that is going on in this program.



I haven't been in the US in over 2 years now and I never remember seeing such a thing. Is this something recent or regional? Has you noticed an increase in these free phone tents? After-all, there is an election next month.
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garnetpalmetto
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RE: Obama Bribing For Votes? Free Obamaphones?

Fri Oct 05, 2012 7:02 pm

Quoting Superfly (Reply 22):
I have a feeling that the manufacture may get kickbacks from the government and that cheap $30 cellphone ends up costing much more once the government is involved.
Quoting Superfly (Reply 22):

I haven't been in the US in over 2 years now and I never remember seeing such a thing. Is this something recent or regional? Has you noticed an increase in these free phone tents? After-all, there is an election next month.

As cas points out, it's not the gov't administering the program but the telecoms.
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falstaff
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RE: Obama Bribing For Votes? Free Obamaphones?

Fri Oct 05, 2012 7:03 pm

Quoting moo (Reply 3):
Actually its a continuation of a policy put in place by Ronald Reagan and the GOP in 1984.

I would disagree, that program is still in place. I heard a radio ad for it last week and was shocked it was still around. The free cell phone thing did start under Bush and and as a conservative I was appalled. When I first heard an ad for it, onthe radio, I was shocked. It got popular under Obama...

Quoting moo (Reply 8):
Everyone had a phone, but I think you will find that most people rented them from the telecoms company they had service with.

Depends where you lived. My family owned their phones in 1984, but in 1980, they were rented. I have heard that 1000s of people in Detroit are still shelling out a rental fee for their home phones becuase they don't know anybetter. There was an article about it in the Detroit Free Press a couple of years ago

Quoting moo (Reply 10):
Post some proof that Obama is trying to take the credit

I don't think he is actually trying to take credit, I think a lot of people are trying to give him the credit, even if he doesn't deserve it. There are people in the conservative camp that want to make it look like he came up with to get people fire up up against him and there are those on the liberal side that want people to think Obama started it to get them fired up to vote for him

I doubt that.... People in Detroit call it an "Obama phone" and I have heard them with my own ears. The people I have heard saying it are people that actually have the phone and are telling their friends about it. I have heard this conversation at church, in bars, and in line at the grocery store.

Quoting moo (Reply 13):
agree, but unfortunately its always been attacked as "ObamaCare", and derided as "ObamaCare". There's an awful lot of negativity been pushed into the name these days, especially in the perception of the general public

That isn't new. Back in the 1990s people called it "Hillary Care" and it was meant as a negative.

Quoting moo (Reply 13):
My personal belief (without looking into whether this has already been debunked, so it might have) is that the woman in the video is a plant by a pro-Republican campaign group (so, not officially linked to the Republican campaign) with the intention of creating this story.

I doubt that. I have heard it called the "Obama phone" in Detroit with my own ears. They people calling it that are people who actually have the phone and seem to love Obama because they think he gave it to them. I have heard this conversation in bars, at church, and in line at the grocery store.

There are people who do think Obama is going to give them free stuff. There was a recent scam in Detroit that was reported in the Free Press that said several hundred people had personal information stolen by people claiming Obama was going to pay their back electric bills (not the Democratic Party, not the government, but Obama himself). These people actually expected the President to pay their bills and gladly handed over personal information to thieves.
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Ken777
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RE: Obama Bribing For Votes? Free Obamaphones?

Fri Oct 05, 2012 7:16 pm

For years we have been able to turn in old mobile phones that are adjusted to only be able to call 911 and given to battered women. Free. And not a political issue.
 
Superfly
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RE: Obama Bribing For Votes? Free Obamaphones?

Fri Oct 05, 2012 7:36 pm

Quoting bhill (Reply 21):
As BMI727 stated, it is her only access to EMS services if she may ever need them.


...and that I fully support.

Quoting garnetpalmetto (Reply 23):
As cas points out, it's not the gov't administering the program but the telecoms.


Does this fall under the tax credit / loophole for one of those large corporations?

Quoting falstaff (Reply 24):
I have heard that 1000s of people in Detroit are still shelling out a rental fee for their home phones becuase they don't know anybetter.



WOW!  Wow!
Just WOW!  Wow!
Quoting falstaff (Reply 24):
I don't think he is actually trying to take credit, I think a lot of people are trying to give him the credit, even if he doesn't deserve it. There are people in the conservative camp that want to make it look like he came up with to get people fire up up against him and there are those on the liberal side that want people to think Obama started it to get them fired up to vote for him



That is what I was suspecting but considering how Obama is always talking about fairness and wealth redistribution, it's totally believable. The term 'Bushphone' or 'Romneyphone' doesn't sound believable.

Quoting falstaff (Reply 24):
That isn't new. Back in the 1990s people called it "Hillary Care" and it was meant as a negative.


I was just starting college then and I was all in favor of Hillarycare at that time. Having a name attached to law or program isn't a bad thing. I support the Pell grant which was started by former Senator Claiborne Pell (D-RI).
That is a good program named after a politician.

Quoting falstaff (Reply 24):
There are people who do think Obama is going to give them free stuff.


That is true. I don't want to seem like I'm dumping on mis-informed Obama supporters (I was one too) but why is it that there are so many of his supporters that think they're gonna get a free handout? The motivating factor to Kerry supporters was to simply get rid of Bush. The motivating factory behind supporting Gore was to continue the success of the Clinton years and keep Bush from getting in. The motivating factor behind supporting Clinton was that he was a great statesman and incredible politician. For a lot of Obama's core supporters, it's getting free stuff. Where is this myth coming from?

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=P36x8rTb3jI

Quoting falstaff (Reply 24):
There was a recent scam in Detroit that was reported in the Free Press that said several hundred people had personal information stolen by people claiming Obama was going to pay their back electric bills (not the Democratic Party, not the government, but Obama himself). These people actually expected the President to pay their bills and gladly handed over personal information to thieves.



A LOT of people in Detroit fell for that too.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_Ojd13kZlCA
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cmf
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RE: Obama Bribing For Votes? Free Obamaphones?

Fri Oct 05, 2012 7:47 pm

Quoting srbmod (Reply 19):
We've gotten a few phone calls about these phones

Why are you getting calls about them?

Quoting srbmod (Reply 19):
it does irk me that the government is handing out subsidized cell phones. I just don't feel that a cell phone is a necessity

Operating cost for a cell phone is less than for a land line.
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garnetpalmetto
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RE: Obama Bribing For Votes? Free Obamaphones?

Fri Oct 05, 2012 7:49 pm

Quoting Superfly (Reply 26):
Having a name attached to law or program isn't a bad thing. I support the Pell grant which was started by former Senator Claiborne Pell (D-RI).
That is a good program named after a politician.

But as you mention, Pell started the program. Sarbanes-Oxley was sponsored by those two politicans, likewise McCain-Feingold. This program wasn't started by Obama, so why should it bear his name?

Quoting Superfly (Reply 26):

Does this fall under the tax credit / loophole for one of those large corporations?

No clue here without reading further into the program than I have time for right now.

Quoting Superfly (Reply 26):
I don't want to seem like I'm dumping on mis-informed Obama supporters (I was one too) but why is it that there are so many of his supporters that think they're gonna get a free handout?

Low information voters come in all stripes. How many low-income conservative Christian whites have pushed a button/turned a lever simply because a candidate had (R) next to their name and thought that they were going to automatically get the policy preference they wanted? It cuts both ways.
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Superfly
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RE: Obama Bribing For Votes? Free Obamaphones?

Fri Oct 05, 2012 8:09 pm

Quoting garnetpalmetto (Reply 28):
This program wasn't started by Obama, so why should it bear his name?


I have no clue. I never even heard of the term 'Obamaphone' until 2 days ago when this caustic lady's video went viral.

Quoting garnetpalmetto (Reply 28):
Low information voters come in all stripes. How many low-income conservative Christian whites have pushed a button/turned a lever simply because a candidate had (R) next to their name and thought that they were going to automatically get the policy preference they wanted? It cuts both ways.


Very true. Particularly when it comes to the abortion issue.
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falstaff
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RE: Obama Bribing For Votes? Free Obamaphones?

Fri Oct 05, 2012 8:51 pm

Quoting Ken777 (Reply 25):
For years we have been able to turn in old mobile phones that are adjusted to only be able to call 911 and given to battered women. Free. And not a political issue.

I don't know if they even have to be adjusted to do that. I know a lot of the old ones (1980s and early 1990s models) would access 911 even if they had no service plans. I had a friend in high school who's dad would give us his old 1980s giant mobile phone if we were going on a road trip incase we needed it for an emergency. The phone nolonger had service, but would reach 911. We tried it one time to see if it worked. We stayed on the line and told the operator what we were doing and she said that was ok and it was smart to make sure it really worked.

Quoting Superfly (Reply 26):
A LOT of people in Detroit fell for that too.

I remember that news report and that was not for the electric bill thing, that was for money to fix up your house, which was at Cobo Hall. It turned out most of those people got nothing because the cost of the repairs exceeded the value of the house, so they didn't qualify for the grant. There were people trying to get the grant that didn't even know what it was for and didn't even own a home, they just heard about free money. Right now the average home price in Detroit is around $5000 so most people had no hope of getting a grant to fix their roofs, window, doors, etc. I know a house in Detroit that has been on the market for several years and is only $500 and still no takers, it is falling down wreck now. A buddy of mine had a house across the street from him sell for $400.

Some people will believe anything they are told. A few weeks ago we had several people come to my Church (on Woodward Avenue in Detroit) and ask about their free house. The priest asked where people heard this information and they all said a friend of a friend said it was on the news (yeah right). The details of the plan were to go and pick property from the list of city owned property (there are 1000s of them in Detroit) and then bring the information to an address on Woodward, that was our church, and we would buy you the home. This nonsense came and went in one day, but it came from somewhere and and these people believed they were getting a free house for some reason. I am sure somebody was trying to work a scam on these people somehow, but I am not sure what it was.

Quoting Superfly (Reply 29):
I have no clue. I never even heard of the term 'Obamaphone' until 2 days ago when this caustic lady's video went viral.

You should come back to Detroit and learn some new terms. LOL!

Quoting Superfly (Reply 29):
Very true. Particularly when it comes to the abortion issue.

If I don't know much about a Candidate I default Republican because I figure they will stand up for my gun rights, some don't though.
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srbmod
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RE: Obama Bribing For Votes? Free Obamaphones?

Fri Oct 05, 2012 11:02 pm

Quoting Superfly (Reply 22):
I haven't been in the US in over 2 years now and I never remember seeing such a thing. Is this something recent or regional? Has you noticed an increase in these free phone tents? After-all, there is an election next month.

It's something that has started to crop up in the last year.

Quoting Superfly (Reply 22):
Perhaps we're showing our age? In the not to distant past, cellphones were a luxury. The under 20 crowd here can't imagine a world without cellphones. When the Lifeline program started in 1984, the only guys with cellphones drove Ferrari's and wore pin-stripe suits. They certainly didn't qualify for a free phone.

I remember when having a pager was a big deal. I guess I'm becoming a grumpy old man as I guess I'm tired of going into places and folks are constantly yacking on their phones. I was in a store the other day and a woman came in yacking away on her cell phone in a loud voice and every third or fourth word was a swear word. Some people have a complete lack of respect for their fellow man. It's pretty bad that places have to put up signs asking customers to not talk on their cell phones at the counter or register.

Quoting cmf (Reply 27):

Why are you getting calls about them?

Because I like in a county in which there are a lot of folks that receive government assistance (Food stamps, WIC, Section 8, etc.) .

Quoting casinterest (Reply 20):

It's not the government, it is the cell companies themselves using the Universal Service Fee, which was codified to Guarantee services to those in hard to reach places.


The government is the one that mandated the Universal Service Fund through the FCC. These phones are supposed to be for emergencies, yet there has been widespread fraud with the Lifelink program and even the FCC admits it and they're now wanting to use the Lifeline program to provide broadband internet access as well to those with low incomes.

An interesting comment on this program:

http://www.usnews.com/news/articles/...ogram-fraught-with-fraud?vwo=501cd

Quote:
"It started out with, 'Every household should have a dialtone, so you should call in an emergency,'" says Larry Downes of the technology think tank Tech Freedom. "Well, then it became, 'They should have basic phone service. They should have a basic cellphone service.' They say it's become a basic staple of life. You can't argue with that, but your electric bill doesn't charge you a tax to make sure poor people have electricity."



This guy makes a valid point. We don't have to pay a government mandated fee every month on pretty much all of our other utilities to help provide service to low-income families.
 
smittyone
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RE: Obama Bribing For Votes? Free Obamaphones?

Fri Oct 05, 2012 11:42 pm

Quoting srbmod (Reply 27):
I remember when having a pager was a big deal.

Yep, if somebody had a beeper you assumed they must be a doctor on call.
 
seb146
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RE: Obama Bribing For Votes? Free Obamaphones?

Sat Oct 06, 2012 12:32 am

Quoting garnetpalmetto (Reply 24):
This program wasn't started by Obama, so why should it bear his name?

To get the right fired up about hating him all over again. That's the only reason I can see for it. For those who don't do research but rely soley on FOX and AM talk radio, they believe anything.
Life in the wall is a drag.
 
Flighty
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RE: Obama Bribing For Votes? Free Obamaphones?

Sat Oct 06, 2012 12:50 am

Phones are the least of it. Tons of people live in government housing, watch cable TV paid for by fraudulent government disability benefits, get high/drunk all day while actual working people function as their mothers/fathers and put in a shift.
 
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casinterest
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RE: Obama Bribing For Votes? Free Obamaphones?

Sat Oct 06, 2012 1:21 am

Quoting srbmod (Reply 27):
The government is the one that mandated the Universal Service Fund through the FCC. These phones are supposed to be for emergencies, yet there has been widespread fraud with the Lifelink program and even the FCC admits it and they're now wanting to use the Lifeline program to provide broadband internet access as well to those with low incomes.

There may be fraud, but that is in the administration of the program. it isn't the program itself at fault. And by no means is this a "liberal" issue, or Obama mandate. No one had introduced a bill to repeal it, and as part of the broadband bill you reference a Republican fom Alaska was very much an endorser to get broadband to the far reaches of Alaska, where it is not economical for private enterpises to put it in.

Quoting srbmod (Reply 27):

This guy makes a valid point. We don't have to pay a government mandated fee every month on pretty much all of our other utilities to help provide service to low-income families.

I would disagree to a point here, our taxes go into assistance for fuels and electricity on for the needy. Also due to the nature of the power system (most are government regulated anyway), they have more of a tax built into the rates already
Older than I just was ,and younger than I will soo be.
 
seb146
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RE: Obama Bribing For Votes? Free Obamaphones?

Sat Oct 06, 2012 2:57 am

Quoting Flighty (Reply 30):
Tons of people live in government housing, watch cable TV paid for by fraudulent government disability benefits, get high/drunk all day while actual working people function as their mothers/fathers and put in a shift.

I see... So, this just all happened since January, 2009? Never ever before then?
Life in the wall is a drag.
 
LMP737
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RE: Obama Bribing For Votes? Free Obamaphones?

Sat Oct 06, 2012 8:50 am

Quoting Superfly (Thread starter):
When I first heard about this, I just dismissed it as right-wing propaganda but after seeing the infamous Obamaphone lady and then did some research, this is a real. Totally shocking!

During your research did you come across the fact that the Obama administration did not start the program?

Quoting moo (Reply 6):
Oh, and its worth pointing out that the migration to free cell phones happened in 2008 under GWB.

http://www.factcheck.org/2009/10/the...hone/

Facts did not stop people like Drudge or Limbaugh befoe, why should it now?

Quoting Superfly (Reply 25):
I have no clue. I never even heard of the term 'Obamaphone' until 2 days ago when this caustic lady's video went viral.

You heard about it because someone repeated a lie. You know what they say about lies and repeating them often enough.
Never take financial advice from co-workers.
 
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pvjin
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RE: Obama Bribing For Votes? Free Obamaphones?

Sat Oct 06, 2012 9:07 am

Quoting Flighty (Reply 30):
Phones are the least of it. Tons of people live in government housing, watch cable TV paid for by fraudulent government disability benefits, get high/drunk all day while actual working people function as their mothers/fathers and put in a shift.

Not really. In here Europe we have 10x better social benefits and everything compared to United States, yet we have no problem with that extremely small minority of people who just live with welfare.

What United States needs is free healthcare, more progressive taxing and even more benefits. That would make your society way more equal, healthier and safer.
"Optimism is the madness of insisting that all is well when we are miserable." - Voltaire
 
Superfly
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RE: Obama Bribing For Votes? Free Obamaphones?

Sat Oct 06, 2012 10:08 am

Quoting srbmod (Reply 27):
It's something that has started to crop up in the last year.


..and that makes me suspicious.

Quoting srbmod (Reply 27):
It's pretty bad that places have to put up signs asking customers to not talk on their cell phones at the counter or register.


Taiwan has signs on their subways about cellphone etiquette.

Quoting falstaff (Reply 26):
You should come back to Detroit and learn some new terms. LOL!


Haha! Yes I need to update the urban slang app in my brain.  
Quoting falstaff (Reply 26):
A few weeks ago we had several people come to my Church (on Woodward Avenue in Detroit) and ask about their free house.


If that were the case, they would get free parking to the Tigers games at Comerica Part.
Did they ask your Priest if he had a 'stash' of ca$h to give out as well?

Quoting LMP737 (Reply 33):
During your research



As I stated already, I didn't do much research at all and Moo already answered my questions early on in this thread.
Bring back the Concorde
 
smittyone
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RE: Obama Bribing For Votes? Free Obamaphones?

Sat Oct 06, 2012 1:02 pm

Quoting pvjin (Reply 34):
Not really. In here Europe we have 10x better social benefits and everything compared to United States, yet we have no problem with that extremely small minority of people who just live with welfare.

What United States needs is free healthcare, more progressive taxing and even more benefits. That would make your society way more equal, healthier and safer.

If that works in Finland, great...but as crazy as it sounds we're not primarily interested in having the government make society more equal, healthy, or safe here in the US. At least the people who have worked hard to secure these things for themselves aren't.

Taking as much as necessary from successful people in order to ensure some minimum standard of living for everyone, whether they are industrious or not, is a recipe for disaster in the US. We've been about freedom combined with personal responsibility for too long...and what you're suggesting takes away much of the incentive for people to make good choices.
 
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pvjin
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RE: Obama Bribing For Votes? Free Obamaphones?

Sat Oct 06, 2012 1:26 pm

Quoting SmittyOne (Reply 36):

But is United States anymore a country of opportunities where any man can go and become successful through hard work?

In my opinion a system where government doesn't help poor people and try to make society more equal works only if anyone can truly become successful through hard honest work. However now if you are average guy from very poor family and can't afford high quality education what chances you truly have to become middle or upper class citizen just through honest work?

I think a hundred or even 50 years ago it was still possible, however I feel that nowadays it rarely goes that way, people who born poor will usually die poor no matter how much they try, social problems keep going on from generation to another and on the other hand those born into rich families can stay rich without too much effort.

I think at some point United States must follow Europe and add more social benefits, it's just necessary natural development of a country. Otherwise social problems and inequality will just keep increasing until they get totally out of control and may cause whole society to collapse. Only in dictatorships extreme inequality can keep going for long time, in any democracy it will eventually lead to either social reforms or revolution.
"Optimism is the madness of insisting that all is well when we are miserable." - Voltaire
 
smittyone
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RE: Obama Bribing For Votes? Free Obamaphones?

Sat Oct 06, 2012 2:12 pm

Quoting pvjin (Reply 37):
But is United States anymore a country of opportunities where any man can go and become successful through hard work?

People keep trying to come here, so I'm thinking it must be. But there is also a large and growing segment of the population that seems happy enough to sit on their ass and live the minimum guaranteed lifestyle rather than strive for success. I fear supporting this trend.

I would agree with reforms that reward and encourage responsibility and hard work.
 
Newark727
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RE: Obama Bribing For Votes? Free Obamaphones?

Sat Oct 06, 2012 2:16 pm

Quoting Superfly (Reply 35):

Taiwan has signs on their subways about cellphone etiquette.

If this is so, I'm moving, when's the next flight?

Quoting Superfly (Reply 35):

As I stated already, I didn't do much research at all and Moo already answered my questions early on in this thread.

If you didn't do the full research, do the fact-minded people in this thread a favor and don't post "Obama bribing for votes" as your header.

One important point is that in all the hue and cry about redistribution, fairness, government moochers, and so on, the people saying "I'm successful, don't take it away from me and give it to unsuccessful people" seem to have lost quite a bit of their personal perspective. Sure, you may have much more money and general personal success than you did when you started. But what in you gave you the drive to do that? If it's simply your lack of money compared to rich people earlier in your life, then support a 100% estate tax so your children will feel the same way and not become parasites or whatever the popular term is these days. I suspect you probably wouldn't support such a thing, so understand that ambition, the kind that makes innovation and billionaires and rainbows and smiling orphans, is not derived from deprivation but from being able to see a window of opportunity and act upon it.
 
seb146
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RE: Obama Bribing For Votes? Free Obamaphones?

Sat Oct 06, 2012 3:50 pm

Quoting SmittyOne (Reply 36):
Taking as much as necessary from successful people in order to ensure some minimum standard of living for everyone, whether they are industrious or not, is a recipe for disaster in the US.

Seemed to work pretty well through the 1950s and 1960s....
Life in the wall is a drag.
 
BMI727
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RE: Obama Bribing For Votes? Free Obamaphones?

Sat Oct 06, 2012 8:04 pm

Quoting pvjin (Reply 34):
What United States needs is free healthcare,

Nothing free about it.

Quoting pvjin (Reply 34):
more progressive taxing

Get some disgusting European tax rates to push more business and capital elsewhere?

Quoting pvjin (Reply 34):
That would make your society way more equal,

I don't want society to be equal. Equality under the law is great, but beyond that equality is bad. A focus on equality will only lead to an enforced standard of mediocrity. I want to be able to earn and keep as much inequality as I can and not be forced to use my resources to pay the way for others.

Quoting SmittyOne (Reply 36):
Taking as much as necessary from successful people in order to ensure some minimum standard of living for everyone, whether they are industrious or not, is a recipe for disaster in the US. We've been about freedom combined with personal responsibility for too long...and what you're suggesting takes away much of the incentive for people to make good choices.

  

Quoting seb146 (Reply 40):
Seemed to work pretty well through the 1950s and 1960s....

...when there was no competition. Not to mention that if you look at the segments of the US budget, the part that has exploded since isn't the defense part of the pie.
Why do Aerospace Engineering students have to turn things in on time?
 
Newark727
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RE: Obama Bribing For Votes? Free Obamaphones?

Sat Oct 06, 2012 8:23 pm

Quoting BMI727 (Reply 41):
I don't want society to be equal. Equality under the law is great, but beyond that equality is bad. A focus on equality will only lead to an enforced standard of mediocrity. I want to be able to earn and keep as much inequality as I can and not be forced to use my resources to pay the way for others.

So basically "mine! it's all mine!" Also it can't have escaped your attention that any other inequality tends to undermine equality under the law.

No one's saying "a focus on equality" means "everyone has the same stuff" heck no one is even specifically focusing on equality the way you're constructing it. The problem is that the inequality has become so resilient and massive. If we don't address the way our public policies tilt heavily in favor of the wealthy and the organizations with the most money in general, the system will increasingly calcify and ruin even the most avowed capitalist, self-made paths of personal success.
 
Newark727
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RE: Obama Bribing For Votes? Free Obamaphones?

Sat Oct 06, 2012 8:34 pm

Quoting SmittyOne (Reply 36):
If that works in Finland, great...but as crazy as it sounds we're not primarily interested in having the government make society more equal, healthy, or safe here in the US. At least the people who have worked hard to secure these things for themselves aren't.

Then why haven't "we" amended out that clause of the Constitution about doing things "necessary and proper for the general welfare" then? Indeed, why do "we" have a government at all, if the people who have secured wealth, health, and safety for themselves don't feel they owe anything to the rest of the population? Because I was under the impression that those three things were why most governments existed, barring possibly the equality bit depending on how you construe it (although I was under the impression that in the US "we" held these truths to be self evident that all men are created equal etc. etc.)

Although it's also possible that "we" just want government to protect successful people's money from all those class-warfare ideas like "taxes" and "civic responsibility," in which case a lot of things make more sense.
 
BMI727
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RE: Obama Bribing For Votes? Free Obamaphones?

Sat Oct 06, 2012 8:49 pm

Quoting Newark727 (Reply 42):
So basically "mine! it's all mine!"

Yep. I don't appreciate the government reaching into my pocket to take care of everyone. Taxes should pay for services, not for people.

Quoting Newark727 (Reply 43):
Indeed, why do "we" have a government at all,

Because some services cannot be provided on a private basis.

Quoting Newark727 (Reply 43):
if the people who have secured wealth, health, and safety for themselves don't feel they owe anything to the rest of the population?

They don't owe anything to the rest of the population. But they still need protection from the military, law enforcement, courts, etc. hence they pay taxes. That is what taxes should go to pay, not TVs for welfare queens.

Quoting Newark727 (Reply 43):
Although it's also possible that "we" just want government to protect successful people's money from all those class-warfare ideas like "taxes" and "civic responsibility,"

They will protect their own money by spending and investing it elsewhere. The more the government tightens their grip, the more prosperity will slip through their fingers.
Why do Aerospace Engineering students have to turn things in on time?
 
cmf
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RE: Obama Bribing For Votes? Free Obamaphones?

Sat Oct 06, 2012 9:19 pm

Quoting BMI727 (Reply 44):
Yep. I don't appreciate the government reaching into my pocket to take care of everyone. Taxes should pay for services, not for people.

Taxes do not pay for people.

Quoting BMI727 (Reply 44):
Because some services cannot be provided on a private basis.

Not true. The answer is that there are a lot of things we do not want provided by owners of private businesses.

Quoting BMI727 (Reply 44):
They don't owe anything to the rest of the population.

They owe as much to the rest of the population as everyone else.

Quoting BMI727 (Reply 44):
But they still need protection from the military, law enforcement, courts, etc. hence they pay taxes.

Welfare programs are part of this. The only reason they pay for what you derogatory label as TV's for welfare queens is because is the better alternative. It means those you care so much about are able to pay less taxes in the long run.

Let's also not forget that it is the time and sweat supplied by the rest of the population that makes it possible for society to provide all the infrastructure and protection you want them to provide. If work was properly compensated there would be no need for this roundabout system.

Quoting BMI727 (Reply 44):
They will protect their own money by spending and investing it elsewhere. The more the government tightens their grip, the more prosperity will slip through their fingers.

No they won't. They know that they will be much better by staying. If not they would all have left long time ago. They need this society just as much as this society need them.
Don’t repeat earlier generations mistakes. Learn history for a better future.
 
Newark727
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RE: Obama Bribing For Votes? Free Obamaphones?

Sat Oct 06, 2012 9:21 pm

Quoting BMI727 (Reply 44):
Yep. I don't appreciate the government reaching into my pocket to take care of everyone. Taxes should pay for services, not for people.

Boy, that answer sure fills me with confidence about the ability of private charities to make up the difference when addressing the legitimately needy and helpless in this country.

Quoting BMI727 (Reply 44):
Because some services cannot be provided on a private basis.

What services are those, if not related to health or security as SmittyOne said?

Quoting BMI727 (Reply 44):
That is what taxes should go to pay, not TVs for welfare queens.

Ronald Reagan lives! Random stereotypes like welfare queen do nothing to inform successful policymaking.

Quoting BMI727 (Reply 44):
They will protect their own money by spending and investing it elsewhere. The more the government tightens their grip, the more prosperity will slip through their fingers.

Specifically, they'll protect their money by spending and investing it in governments that prevent anyone else from having it. Which I guess is fine by you, since you only seem to care about the de jure equality under the law and not what actually happens in courtrooms and legislatures.
 
Flighty
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RE: Obama Bribing For Votes? Free Obamaphones?

Sat Oct 06, 2012 9:31 pm

Quoting seb146 (Reply 32):
I see... So, this just all happened since January, 2009? Never ever before then?

It's an old concept but it has increased markedly, yes. Not Obama's fault but it points out the flaws in his philosophy. Many people can claim to be "needy" if it gets them a nice place to live, free food for life, free medical etc. Those used to be things people aspire to after hard work. Now it's considered a "right." The corollary to that is, far fewer people will decide to "work" if everything is a right. And we are seeing that now, as workforce participation among men hits all-time low levels.

Quoting pvjin (Reply 34):
Not really. In here Europe we have 10x better social benefits and everything compared to United States, yet we have no problem with that extremely small minority of people who just live with welfare.

By no problem, you mean, what exactly? Have you seen Europe has incredibly low economic growth recently? Perhaps you are acquainted with current events in Spain, Greece, the UK and France? Or not?      
 
BMI727
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RE: Obama Bribing For Votes? Free Obamaphones?

Sat Oct 06, 2012 10:08 pm

Quoting cmf (Reply 45):
Taxes do not pay for people.

Not all of them, but too many do.

Quoting cmf (Reply 45):
Not true. The answer is that there are a lot of things we do not want provided by owners of private businesses.

Really? Go get yourself a navy.

Quoting cmf (Reply 45):
They owe as much to the rest of the population as everyone else.

No they don't, they have to pay for the services they receive, but don't owe anything to me or you.

Quoting cmf (Reply 45):
Welfare programs are part of this.

No they aren't.

Quoting cmf (Reply 45):
Let's also not forget that it is the time and sweat supplied by the rest of the population that makes it possible for society to provide all the infrastructure and protection you want them to provide. If work was properly compensated there would be no need for this roundabout system.

The market determines what is or is not proper compensation.

Quoting Newark727 (Reply 46):
Boy, that answer sure fills me with confidence about the ability of private charities to make up the difference when addressing the legitimately needy and helpless in this country.

You're drawing a false connection. Just because something is good does not mean that the government should be doing it. Taking taxes to support the poor is not charity any more than getting mugged by a poor person is charity. Car companies and airlines are good, but that doesn't mean I think the government should be in charge of them.

Quoting Newark727 (Reply 46):
What services are those, if not related to health or security as SmittyOne said?

Armed forces, law enforcement, intelligence agencies, various regulatory bodies (though they must be carefully held in check), emergency services, foreign relations, education, and a lot, though certainly not all, infrastructure.

Quoting Newark727 (Reply 46):
Random stereotypes like welfare queen do nothing to inform successful policymaking.

Has it ever occurred to you that stereotypes become stereotypes because they have an element of truth?

Quoting Newark727 (Reply 46):
Specifically, they'll protect their money by spending and investing it in governments that prevent anyone else from having it.

Yep.

Quoting Newark727 (Reply 46):
Which I guess is fine by you, since you only seem to care about the de jure equality under the law and not what actually happens in courtrooms and legislatures.

It is fine by me. Milton Friedman was right you know.
Why do Aerospace Engineering students have to turn things in on time?
 
Newark727
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RE: Obama Bribing For Votes? Free Obamaphones?

Sat Oct 06, 2012 10:28 pm

Quoting BMI727 (Reply 48):
You're drawing a false connection. Just because something is good does not mean that the government should be doing it. Taking taxes to support the poor is not charity any more than getting mugged by a poor person is charity. Car companies and airlines are good, but that doesn't mean I think the government should be in charge of them.

Listen to yourself. On one post (actually two) you're saying "my money my money my money forever, I intend to keep it no matter what" and now you're saying that government shouldn't be providing social services to people because private charities who receive money via donations can take care of it. I should think that the dissonance is fairly easy to note.

Quoting BMI727 (Reply 48):
Armed forces, law enforcement, intelligence agencies, various regulatory bodies (though they must be carefully held in check), emergency services, foreign relations, education, and a lot, though certainly not all, infrastructure.

Plenty of things on that list fall directly under health and safety.

Quoting BMI727 (Reply 48):
Has it ever occurred to you that stereotypes become stereotypes because they have an element of truth?

I could upgrade it to anecdote if you like, but it still wouldn't inform the debate any better.

Quoting BMI727 (Reply 48):
Yep.

So literal plutocracy is a thing that you're absolutely comfortable with as a sustainable system of governing a country?

Quoting BMI727 (Reply 48):
It is fine by me.

You do realize that you're waving away some of the longest lasting injustices in American history by saying this, right?

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