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casinterest
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"Lies From The Pits Of Hell"

Sun Oct 07, 2012 3:24 am

http://chronicle.augusta.com/news/me...volution-lie-pit-hell?v=1349544856

Everyone seems to wonder why the US is falling behind in Math and Science. I would like to point out that yet another member of the house committe on Science,Space and Technology ,Paul Broun(R) is clinging to deeply established religious convictions instead of accepted scientific theories. The fact that he is a doctor makes it even more bewildering.

Todd Akin and he may make perfectly good politicians, but why does the GOP put such ignorant folks on committes for stuff that don't care about or embrace?
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DeltaMD90
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RE: "Lies From The Pits Of Hell"

Sun Oct 07, 2012 3:41 am

You think that's bad, look at the comments on this article. And this is coming from someone who is religious... that is some scary stuff
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zippyjet
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RE: "Lies From The Pits Of Hell"

Sun Oct 07, 2012 3:46 am

Quoting casinterest (Thread starter):
Todd Akin and he may make perfectly good politicians, but why does the GOP put such ignorant folks on committes for stuff that don't care about or embrace?



Because it's newsworthy and their news bitch Fox News Network does their usual spin making anything that isn't religious New Testament hallelujah is heanthen evil. Also it panders to about half their voting base. Those who fear diversity or anything that isn't JC related. The other half of the GOP base are the elite rich folk who want tax breaks and to maximize profits at whatever cost. This segment of the Republican party I think of the little Monopoly icon, the banker dude with the curly Q mustache and top hat. He epitomizes the old money Northeast elite Republican model. And with these sensational actions/stories it stokes the flames of mistrust, divide and conquer.
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kaitak
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RE: "Lies From The Pits Of Hell"

Sun Oct 07, 2012 3:46 am

It's just sad; the fact that he is a medical doctor does indeed make it worse/sadder; so too does the fact that he has to express his view in such extreme terms. It's not just "I've come to the conclusion that ..."; it's "this is the truth and to hell with anyone who disagrees".

It's interesting also to read the comments below; quite a few headbangers there too.

It sometimes amuses me that creationists never see the irony of not accepting/believing in evolution.

[Edited 2012-10-06 20:48:54]
 
Airstud
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RE: "Lies From The Pits Of Hell"

Sun Oct 07, 2012 4:09 am

Yeah I have trouble believing he's a medical doctor. Which school awarded his degree?
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DeltaMD90
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RE: "Lies From The Pits Of Hell"

Sun Oct 07, 2012 4:11 am

Quoting zippyjet (Reply 2):
Also it panders to about half their voting base. Those who fear diversity or anything that isn't JC related. The other half of the GOP base are the elite rich folk who want tax breaks and to maximize profits at whatever cost.

I'd either stop stereotyping or meet more Republicans. I know PLENTY that aren't in either "half"  

I guess I could say half of Democrats are on welfare and the other half keep giving them welfare for votes... kinda ignorant, huh?

Not saying that the GOP doesn't have a lot of rich and/or religious nuts, but most are average folk, yes, just like you
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n229nw
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RE: "Lies From The Pits Of Hell"

Sun Oct 07, 2012 4:15 am

Oh dear. I don't care what people want to believe as long as they keep it out of government, and by extension out of schools. Or rather, at least out of school science classes.

Quoting kaitak (Reply 3):
to hell with anyone who disagrees".

And he believes that quit literally, not just as a figure of speech!

Quoting DeltaMD90 (Reply 1):
You think that's bad, look at the comments on this article. And this is coming from someone who is religious... that is some scary stuff

  

Absolutely. You beat me to it.

[Edited 2012-10-06 21:17:11]
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Airstud
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RE: "Lies From The Pits Of Hell"

Sun Oct 07, 2012 4:24 am

Quoting zippyjet (Reply 2):
Also it panders to about half their voting base. Those who fear diversity or anything that isn't JC related. The other half of the GOP base are the elite rich folk who want tax breaks and to maximize profits at whatever cost.

Really?

Well then someone owes me either tax-free riches, or at least my Hebrew school tuition back...
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seb146
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RE: "Lies From The Pits Of Hell"

Sun Oct 07, 2012 4:35 am

Quoting DeltaMD90 (Reply 5):
I'd either stop stereotyping or meet more Republicans. I know PLENTY that aren't in either "half"

Really? Because the majority I have met up and down the West Coast are exactly like that! Right down to the letter! Maybe East Coast right-wingers are more, I don't know... "educated" or something? But, out West, they will fall in line behind whatever Hannity, Limbaugh, Drudge, FOX have to say. Period. And everyone else hates America, but let's have alternate opinions because that is what America is all about.
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zippyjet
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RE: "Lies From The Pits Of Hell"

Sun Oct 07, 2012 5:02 am

Quoting seb146 (Reply 8):



  

Quoting Airstud (Reply 7):
Well then someone owes me either tax-free riches, or at least my Hebrew school tuition back...



A lot of our fellow tribesmen and women have migrated over to the GOP. Hey, if that's what you believe and is best for you, your loved ones and for our country then by all means go for it. I'm not going to put you down personally or not be friends or associate with you.

For me, when I learned that Prescott Bush of the Bush dynasty royal family was a Nazi supporter that put the kibosh on me even thinking of going GOP. True there were Democrats that also went to the dark side during that horrible period of history but I'd have to say the Bush klan was and is at the top of the money and power food chain. And Bush 41 touted the New World Order. Sort of an extension of his daddy's leanings.

Here in the Baltimore area, you have a lot of this. Our so called news radio station has a lot of right wing talk radio and the callers are definitely on the right and many proclaim us Democrats and even Independents as lazy, shiftless, welfare loving UN-American Communist, Socialist criminals. A lot of times I'm laughing but then realize there are lot's of people who really live and breathe this stuff. When Reagan is worshipped as the second coming, I cringe. He and his administration set the stage for a lot of what's contributing to the United States Jumping the Shark.

Now, I'll go out on a limb and say that both parties sadly cater and appeal to their extremist fringe elements. Most of us Democrats and even Republicans are somewhere in the center. However it's the silent majority who are short changed while the extremes of both parties "Screw The Pooch." I do feel there are more way out right wingers influencing our future.

Quoting DeltaMD90 (Reply 5):

I'd either stop stereotyping or meet more Republicans. I know PLENTY that aren't in either "half"

I guess I could say half of Democrats are on welfare and the other half keep giving them welfare for votes... kinda ignorant, huh?

Not saying that the GOP doesn't have a lot of rich and/or religious nuts, but most are average folk, yes, just like you
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flipdewaf
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RE: "Lies From The Pits Of Hell"

Sun Oct 07, 2012 11:02 am

It's people like him who bolster the reputation of the US as a backward thinking nation of religious nut jobs.

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RE: "Lies From The Pits Of Hell"

Sun Oct 07, 2012 11:15 am

It does seem odd that somebody who apparently has such disrespect for "science" could be appointed to a Committee on Science, Space and Technology. While a person may have religious beliefs he or she can still generally hold a positive attitude to science. From his statement it would appear that Broun would be unable to view matter before the Committee in any objective fashion.

How does he get there? Is it an example of cronyism at its worst?
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RE: "Lies From The Pits Of Hell"

Sun Oct 07, 2012 12:10 pm

The worst part with such persons on that committee is that less money will go to scientific research from the Federal Government. One has to wonder if this is an intentional decision by the Republicans to try to starve government, forgetting that many of their supporters make money from such spending.
 
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RE: "Lies From The Pits Of Hell"

Sun Oct 07, 2012 12:21 pm

Quoting Quokkas (Reply 11):
How does he get there? Is it an example of cronyism at its worst?

The story reminds me of John Bolton: make someone a member of an organ that he utterly despises so that he can hold it back and "expose" it at every opportunity, with the intention of making said organ seem ineffective and adversarial.
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RE: "Lies From The Pits Of Hell"

Sun Oct 07, 2012 1:19 pm

Quoting aloges (Reply 13):
The story reminds me of John Bolton: make someone a member of an organ that he utterly despises so that he can hold it back and "expose" it at every opportunity, with the intention of making said organ seem ineffective and adversarial.

[checkmark} You got it. If you are anti-science, then the best way to kill it is to be on the Science Committee. Some people hate science because it does the work of the devil, propagating lies - today evolution and Big Bang, yesterday it was the Earth rotating around the Sun.
 
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RE: "Lies From The Pits Of Hell"

Sun Oct 07, 2012 1:38 pm

Quoting Quokkas (Reply 11):
It does seem odd that somebody who apparently has such disrespect for "science" could be appointed to a Committee on Science, Space and Technology.
Quoting Quokkas (Reply 11):
From his statement it would appear that Broun would be unable to view matter before the Committee in any objective fashion.

No, that is exactly why he is on that committee. The string pullers behind the Republican party aren't stupid. They know that virtually everything their party stands for is a fairy tale. They know that once people get access to education, their party has no future of existing because they will start to realize that there is no creationism, that gay people don't cause hurricanes, that guns kill people, that 1+1= 2, that there are other countries than the USA, that people of other races are humans too, ...

Which is exactly why many Republicans laugh at science/scientists and at facts. To the rest of the world, that seems grotesque/absurd/ridiculous beyond belief. To the Republicans, it is essential for people to not know that global warming and its consequences exist or else people would maybe change their attitude towards it and cost the Republicans donors a lot of money in lost revenue.
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RE: "Lies From The Pits Of Hell"

Sun Oct 07, 2012 1:52 pm

What amazes me about this is that SCIENCE IS A PROCESS, INDEPENDENT OF WHATEVER CONCLUSIONS ARE DRAWN AS A RESULT.

So, it really matters much less whether Evolution as currently described is 0% or 100% accurate, but rather how that conclusion was reached. Is it scientifically defensible? Maybe, maybe not. But it's a scientific, not a religious question.

On the other hand, this Creation Science phenomenon where people start with the scripture (what they believe to be true) and then go dig in the dirt for evidence that supports their conclusion, to the exclusion of all other, is sort of the opposite of science.

The litmus test in my mind being:

Would scientists revise the current theory of evolution if confronted with a modern human fossil found completely out of its expected time period (ie riding a dinosaur)? I think they would.

Would creationists rewrite sections of the Bible if a similar artifact running counter to the creation story was found? Oh wait, those artifacts already have been found.

What's even funnier about the whole issue is that even if Darwin's theories were unequivocally and scientifically determined to be null and void tomorrow, that would have zero bearing on whether or not any given creation story were true, and/or whether or not any given god exists.

There's a logical hole big enough to drive a truck through there that is invisible to the zealots...stifling science nets them nothing in the end other than the allegiance of people daft enough to feel certain that the only two options are the most current evolutionary theory and the latest edition of the Holy Bible.
 
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RE: "Lies From The Pits Of Hell"

Sun Oct 07, 2012 3:03 pm

Just another member of Congress from Georgia that is an embarrassment to the state. With the state having gained another seat in Congress, Rep. Broun's district was significantly redrawn (the northern half of the 10th District was taken to form a new 9th District and he had more of eastern and central Georgia put into his district as well as the eastern and southeastern edges of Metro Atlanta. His district (even with the recent redistricting) has long been a fairly conservative district but up until the 1994 elections, the district had been solidly Democrat (but had elected conservative Democrats back when being a Republican in Georgia typically meant defeat on election day).

His statements are not surprising considering how some more conservative and religious people don't take lightly to science since it does repudiate a lot of what the Bible says about how the Earth was created and they see science as a threat to Christianity. Just as Hitler had some of the scientists working for the Germans doctor research papers in order to validate the core beliefs and values of the Nazi Party, there are likely scientists today that are doing similar things in order to validate the core beliefs of Christianity. Some seem to think that science will turn everyone into atheists or worse, devil worshipers. It's as though we're no longer in the 21st Century, but rather the 15th or 16th Century because of how some extreme conservative elements view modern society and try to condemn anyone or any thing that does not agree with their world view. The Catholic Church centuries ago fought science and tried to stifle it because of the idea that the Earth revolves around the Sun and not the other way around as it messed with the teachings of the Church. We're seeing this in our times with more conservative elements of Christian denominations like the Southern Baptists and Pentecostals, a rejection of science and reason much in the same way the Catholic Church did 500+ years ago. It's troubling as we have people like this being elected into positions of power and we risk entering a new Dark Ages if more and more of those who reject science because it contradicts their own religious beliefs get elected and force their beliefs into the law of the land.
 
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RE: "Lies From The Pits Of Hell"

Sun Oct 07, 2012 3:40 pm

Quoting SmittyOne (Reply 16):
There's a logical hole big enough to drive a truck through there that is invisible to the zealots...stifling science nets them nothing in the end other than the allegiance of people daft enough to feel certain that the only two options are the most current evolutionary theory and the latest edition of the Holy Bible.

But see thats what makes them Zealots: absolute belief overriding logic.
Having bible thumping born again christians in my family I can tell you they don't give a darn about logic or proof, if it's not printed in the bible it isn't reality to them.
If you try to debate them on anything they either start sounding like broken records quoting "Gods word" or get very angry and tell you you will burn in damnation for all eternity etc etc. There is no reasoning with them, and it is very scary and sad.

I hope that the trend of lower and lower church membership means that our children's generation will be able to put these nutcases back into the side shadows and move forward. I don't have issues with church, or belief, I myself despite everything still believe in god, but my belief is that the second you ignore the truth for the word you are lost.
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RE: "Lies From The Pits Of Hell"

Sun Oct 07, 2012 4:32 pm

Quoting seb146 (Reply 8):
But, out West, they will fall in line behind whatever

That can go both ways you know... some certain people on this board (won't say which of course, just know they've very close to home) are always whining about the mean ol' GOP and always make things a left vs right battle for no reason, "toeing the liberal line" themselves.

But as silly as these certain posters are, I don't stereotype half of America because of them.

When there are only two major parties in America, chances are the big ones will include a lot of nuts, that's just how it works. When you have a social-liberal but fiscal conservative (making that person a libertarian) and they reluctantly vote Republican (which may slightly represent that person more than a Democrat) does that make that person a religious nut?

Probably just wasting my time explaining it, some people don't know stereotypes are bad  


Anyway, this guy is giving the Republicans a great boost (sarc) in a very politically unimportant time (more sarc)

We need a new GOP
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RE: "Lies From The Pits Of Hell"

Sun Oct 07, 2012 5:45 pm

Quoting casinterest (Thread starter):
The fact that he is a doctor makes it even more bewildering.

It is my opinion that any physician engaging in scientific denialism should lose his or her medical license. You have freedom of speech and religion yes, but having a medical license is also not a fundamental right.

A physician saying that he doesn't believe in evolution (or embryology) is like a pilot saying he doesn't believe in gravity. Neither has any place in that profession and their "beliefs" could injure or kill innocents who trust them.
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RE: "Lies From The Pits Of Hell"

Sun Oct 07, 2012 8:19 pm

I was looking this guy up on wikipedia and the first sentence says,
"Paul Collins Broun, Jr. (born May 14, 1946)[2] is the U.S. Representative for Georgia's 10th congressional district, serving since 2007. He is a member of the Republican Party and the Tea Party Caucus, and a confirmed idiot."

Lol
 
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DeltaMD90
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RE: "Lies From The Pits Of Hell"

Sun Oct 07, 2012 8:24 pm

Ok, preach if you like Mr Broun, but don't expect anyone to listen to you when you've been married FOUR times! Wow, kinda hypocritical don't ya think??
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aloges
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RE: "Lies From The Pits Of Hell"

Sun Oct 07, 2012 8:37 pm

Quoting DeltaMD90 (Reply 22):
Ok, preach if you like Mr Broun, but don't expect anyone to listen to you when you've been married FOUR times! Wow, kinda hypocritical don't ya think??

Par for the course...
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RE: "Lies From The Pits Of Hell"

Mon Oct 08, 2012 3:54 am

Quoting DeltaMD90 (Reply 22):
Ok, preach if you like Mr Broun, but don't expect anyone to listen to you when you've been married FOUR times! Wow, kinda hypocritical don't ya think??

Fits that stereotype that you hate...
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zippyjet
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RE: "Lies From The Pits Of Hell"

Mon Oct 08, 2012 4:06 am

Quoting srbmod (Reply 17):
Just another member of Congress from Georgia that is an embarrassment to the state.

Today, the whack job from Georgia in Congress: Tomorrow, meet your new Republican Representative or Senator
from Georgia:
Quoting DeltaMD90 (Reply 19):

But as silly as these certain posters are, I don't stereotype half of America because of them.

However, it seems the rest of the people who are Republican endorse and let the crazy right wingers run their show. Many are complacent and letting them take hold of the party of Abe Lincoln. Sort of reminds me of the masses of the masses in Islamic countries who let the fanatics control and squander their nations and terrorize.
Imagine a reality show where you have a dozen right wing Republican bible thumpers going at it with 12 radical fanatic Islamics.

If the rank and file would vote, fire and rid the party of the nut jobs then the party would be popular. Most people tend to be in the center and actually conservative. Both parties have a lot of good things however the fanatic extremists are going to run both major parties into the ground and go the way of Plymouth and Pontiac.

Quoting DeltaMD90 (Reply 19):

We need a new GOP
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RE: "Lies From The Pits Of Hell"

Mon Oct 08, 2012 12:25 pm

Quoting flipdewaf (Reply 10):
It's people like him who bolster the reputation of the US as a backward thinking nation of religious nut jobs.

This just in, from Arkansas:

Quote:

Arkansas Republicans tried to distance themselves Saturday from a Republican state representative's assertion that slavery was a "blessing in disguise" and a Republican state House candidate who advocates deporting all Muslims.

The claims were made in books written, respectively, by Rep. Jon Hubbard of Jonesboro and House candidate Charlie Fuqua of Batesville.

Ref: http://news.yahoo.com/ark-gop-calls-...tatements-offensive-212508499.html

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RE: "Lies From The Pits Of Hell"

Mon Oct 08, 2012 2:56 pm

Quoting zippyjet (Reply 25):
However, it seems the rest of the people who are Republican endorse and let the crazy right wingers run their show.

While I don't deny there are some extreme voters, you have to realize that a stance like that is one issue... who knows, maybe he is a great economist. If Barack Obama thought the world was flat but held every other belief he has, and Mitt Romney was the same, who would you vote for this election (IIRC, you are for the President.) Just because he held that extreme belief doesn't mean you believe in it.

Again I'm not denying there are a lot of extreme voters/candidates, but saying half of the GOP are a bunch of rich guys and the other half are religious nuts, well, come on
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RE: "Lies From The Pits Of Hell"

Mon Oct 08, 2012 7:52 pm

Quoting DeltaMD90 (Reply 27):
While I don't deny there are some extreme voters, you have to realize that a stance like that is one issue... who knows, maybe he is a great economist.

He cannot possibly be an economist or any sort of academic if he is going to say that inconvenient facts can simply be discounted.

You cannot function that way in the real world.
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casinterest
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RE: "Lies From The Pits Of Hell"

Tue Oct 09, 2012 1:13 am

Quoting DocLightning (Reply 20):

It is my opinion that any physician engaging in scientific denialism should lose his or her medical license. You have freedom of speech and religion yes, but having a medical license is also not a fundamental right.

I keep going back and looking at the article, where he basically asserts that alll those that are taught about evolution, embrology or the big bang are basically being denied the path to rightousness. It makes me think of that saying... "ignorance is Bliss" . However he was taught those things, and presumable he did save lives from those lessons. Anyone have his medical history handy?


It just makes me wonder if he has had one of those episodes like that pilot that the co-pilot had to lock out of the cockpit.
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DocLightning
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RE: "Lies From The Pits Of Hell"

Tue Oct 09, 2012 1:44 am

Quoting casinterest (Reply 29):
Anyone have his medical history handy?

Whether he is currently licensed is publicly available. Just go to the state's medical board website.

To me, this is mental illness. This is not religion. Religion does not demand that you look at the sky and swear that it is red. There is, unfortunately, a lot of mental illness in this world that gets defended as "religion."
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comorin
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RE: "Lies From The Pits Of Hell"

Tue Oct 09, 2012 2:51 am

Quoting DocLightning (Reply 30):
There is, unfortunately, a lot of mental illness in this world that gets defended as "religion."

A lot of religious people engage in ritualistic OCD-style behavior. Others believe in religion as 'God-Fearing' people, and assume that an all-knowing God is watching their every mood. Yet more believe a visit to the Church (or Temple) purges one's sins. Overall, I'd say a nice but very suggestible and manipulable group of people.
 
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DocLightning
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RE: "Lies From The Pits Of Hell"

Tue Oct 09, 2012 3:08 am

Quoting comorin (Reply 31):
A lot of religious people engage in ritualistic OCD-style behavior. Others believe in religion as 'God-Fearing' people, and assume that an all-knowing God is watching their every mood. Yet more believe a visit to the Church (or Temple) purges one's sins. Overall, I'd say a nice but very suggestible and manipulable group of people.

Not all religion.

But a lot of mental illness gets cloaked as religion because once it is formulated as religion, it's impolite to argue with it.
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cmf
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RE: "Lies From The Pits Of Hell"

Tue Oct 09, 2012 8:04 am

Quoting DeltaMD90 (Reply 27):
Again I'm not denying there are a lot of extreme voters/candidates, but saying half of the GOP are a bunch of rich guys and the other half are religious nuts, well, come on

It isn't half and half. Only 47% and 47%   
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