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Taliban Shoot Young Girl Peace Activist

Wed Oct 10, 2012 11:19 am

Shows how truly intolerant and ignorant the Taliban are.

This young girl:



is now fighting for her life:



after members of the Taliban shot her, for speaking out against their practices in the Swat Valley.

She had anonymously written a blog on the BBC Urdu web site, and after the Tailiban were pushed out, she revealed her name, and since then they have threatened her, and now have followed through on it:

Quote:

Mingora (Dawn/ANN) - Malala Yousufzai, the 14-year-old Swat girl who championed the cause of girls' education and dared to criticise Taliban's attack on schools and schoolgoing girls, was shot and seriously wounded in Mingora yesterday.

As she struggled for life in a Peshawar hospital, Taliban claimed responsibility for the chilling attack and threatened to target her again and kill her if she managed to survive this time.

Malala's courage was recognised and praised worldwide and she was nominated for several international peace awards. Pakistan decorated her with a gallantry award.

Malala, who has two brothers, wants to be a politician.

Ref: http://sg.news.yahoo.com/taliban-att...tani-peace-activist-090003591.html
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soon7x7
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RE: Taliban Shoot Young Girl Peace Activist

Wed Oct 10, 2012 11:22 am

What can one say...this is the direction the world is headed and no one wants to stand up against it. Shame on us all.
 
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RE: Taliban Shoot Young Girl Peace Activist

Wed Oct 10, 2012 12:16 pm

From CNN earlier she seems to be in a serious but stable condition and should recover. Kudos to her.
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fr8mech
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RE: Taliban Shoot Young Girl Peace Activist

Wed Oct 10, 2012 2:20 pm

And we are surprised about this...why? The Islamic terrorists, general, and the Taliban, specifically, don't care whether they target men, women or children, all they care is that all dissent is eliminated.

When are responsible Muslims going to finally wake-up and depose their alleged religious compatriots? When will they rise up and loudly (and yes, violently) shutdown, these animals?

To paraphrase Edmund Burke: All that is necessary for evil to triumph is that good men do nothing. Where are the good Muslims? Why do they do little or nothing at all?

God's speed on this brave young lady's recovery.
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DeltaMD90
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RE: Taliban Shoot Young Girl Peace Activist

Wed Oct 10, 2012 2:32 pm

I hope she can be the one so many rally around.

Many criticize Muslims for not speaking out against terrorism... easy to say behind a computer in a safe country. She did and look what happened...

She has more bravery than most of us. This will probably blow over, but one of these days we'll have the straw that cracks the camel's back and I think we'll see some true change in the Middle East
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Newark727
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RE: Taliban Shoot Young Girl Peace Activist

Wed Oct 10, 2012 3:00 pm

Yes, a young woman got shot for speaking out against terrorism, let's jump straight to the Islam chat.   

All I can say is, what a goddamn shame that Afghanistan has come to this. You can't say Islam led to this point, you can't say the U.S. invasion led to this point, all of it was set in motion long before this specific event and it's probably going to take just as long if not longer to make a functioning country out of the place.
 
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RE: Taliban Shoot Young Girl Peace Activist

Wed Oct 10, 2012 3:30 pm

Quoting fr8mech (Reply 3):
When are responsible Muslims going to finally wake-up and depose their alleged religious compatriots?

just recently, for a while longer and since decades ago - just off the top of my head

By the way, "compatriots" is an interesting choice of words... wrong, but interesting.

Quoting fr8mech (Reply 3):
When will they rise up and loudly (and yes, violently) shutdown, these animals?

That's a horribly misinformed demand. Violence has never once put a stop to extremism and it never will. As for "shutting down animals", well, that sounds an awful lot like a call for genocide.

Quoting fr8mech (Reply 3):
Where are the good Muslims?

So what defines a "good" Muslim and what defines a "bad" one? While we're - or rather, you are - at it, what's a "good" Christian?

Quoting fr8mech (Reply 3):
Why do they do little or nothing at all?

Are you at all familiar with the term "reign of terror"?

Quoting DeltaMD90 (Reply 4):
Many criticize Muslims for not speaking out against terrorism... easy to say behind a computer in a safe country.

   exactly

Anti-Islamic fundamentalism is just as bad as Islamic fundamentalism, or indeed any other kind of fundamentalism.
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RE: Taliban Shoot Young Girl Peace Activist

Wed Oct 10, 2012 4:50 pm

Quoting Newark727 (Reply 5):
Yes, a young woman got shot for speaking out against terrorism, let's jump straight to the Islam chat.

As above, her main area of activism is "the cause of girls' education"...

Just wondering, what do you believe that Islam say about the role of girls/women in general, and the education of girls/women in particular?

I certainly don't equate Islam to terrorism, but I do feel segments of the Islamic community are way out of date with respect to women's rights.

Quoting Newark727 (Reply 5):
All I can say is, what a goddamn shame that Afghanistan has come to this.

This was an attack on a Pakistani citizen on Pakistani land by the Taliban, who admitted they did the attack and have said they will repeat the act till she is dead.

This is much more about the Pakistani government's policy of allowing the Taliban to control large areas of their nation.
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RE: Taliban Shoot Young Girl Peace Activist

Wed Oct 10, 2012 4:59 pm

Quoting soon7x7 (Reply 1):
What can one say...this is the direction the world is headed and no one wants to stand up against it. Shame on us all.

Well we have been standing in Afghanistan for similar reasons for more that 10 years and what has happened ?
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777way
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RE: Taliban Shoot Young Girl Peace Activist

Wed Oct 10, 2012 4:59 pm

Islam has made it obligatory for believing men and women to seek knowledge, however work wise conservatives prefer women stay home and work only if absolutely necessary, then at the same time they want female doctors, nurses, teachers etc. so their women dont deal with men.

Taliban now have a faction in Pakistan, known as the Pakistan Taliban Movement, also active in southern Punjab province.

Quoting Revelation (Reply 7):


[Edited 2012-10-10 10:07:26]
 
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RE: Taliban Shoot Young Girl Peace Activist

Wed Oct 10, 2012 5:02 pm

Quoting Aesma (Reply 8):
Well we have been standing in Afghanistan for similar reasons for more that 10 years and what has happened ?

From what I understand, one of the few benefits of taking control away from the Taliban is that the ability of females to get education has been restored.
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Newark727
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RE: Taliban Shoot Young Girl Peace Activist

Wed Oct 10, 2012 5:40 pm

Quoting Revelation (Reply 7):

This was an attack on a Pakistani citizen on Pakistani land by the Taliban, who admitted they did the attack and have said they will repeat the act till she is dead.

This is much more about the Pakistani government's policy of allowing the Taliban to control large areas of their nation.

While this is true and I stand corrected, it's a situation that wouldn't exist the way it does in Afghanistan or Pakistan if those countries had working governments.

Quoting Revelation (Reply 7):

As above, her main area of activism is "the cause of girls' education"...

Just wondering, what do you believe that Islam say about the role of girls/women in general, and the education of girls/women in particular?

I certainly don't equate Islam to terrorism, but I do feel segments of the Islamic community are way out of date with respect to women's rights.

I don't think she was attacked by the Taliban for activism about girl's education specifically, to be honest. The Taliban are backwards religious fundamentalists, but they're also opportunistic thugs, and while I don't know enough about them to provide a percentage split on those two characteristics, if you're in a position of power by being an opportunistic thug, attacking schools and people who try to attend them makes a perverse level of sense no matter what your creed, and anyone speaking out against anything you do is a problem, because if you let it slide, who knows, maybe people might speak about the other things you do also which require even more bending over backwards to justify with your stated belief system. The sadly backwards state that women's rights are in in this part of the world with is a terrible problem that needs to be addressed, but I'm not sure how much of it can be traced back to Islam in particular- a lot of the gender-specific oppression that takes place in places where Islamic extremists operate actually predates it and the religion piggybacks on top. Though that's not always the case, see Saudi Arabia.
 
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RE: Taliban Shoot Young Girl Peace Activist

Wed Oct 10, 2012 6:06 pm

Quoting Revelation (Reply 10):
From what I understand, one of the few benefits of taking control away from the Taliban is that the ability of females to get education has been restored.

As long as we're here. Where we left, things are different, and I'm sure the Taliban will be back in power in no time after 2014.
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RE: Taliban Shoot Young Girl Peace Activist

Wed Oct 10, 2012 6:48 pm

Quoting 777way (Reply 9):
Taliban now have a faction in Pakistan, known as the Pakistan Taliban Movement, also active in southern Punjab province.

Yes, it seems this is the group claiming credit for the shooting of this young girl and two of her schoolmates.

I hope the people of the region and the country reject this group's actions.

Quoting Newark727 (Reply 11):
I don't think she was attacked by the Taliban for activism about girl's education specifically, to be honest.

I disagree.

Her fame came from the following blog she wrote in 2009:

http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/south_asia/7834402.stm


Taliban says it shot Pakistani teen for advocating girls’ rights
is probably too suggestive a title, but the report includes the following:

Quote:

Ihsanullah Ihsan, chief spokesman for the Pakistani Taliban, said in calls to the news media that the militant group targeted Yousafzai because she generated “negative propaganda” about Muslims.

“She considers President Obama as her ideal leader. Malala is the symbol of the infidels and obscenity,” Ihsan said.

Thus we know she was specifically targeted, this comes from the Taliban itself.

We don't see them calling out girl's education, but that indeed is the source of her fame.

Put another way, there was no other reason to specifically target her, because I'm sure they can find plenty others that they consider to be obscene infidels.

Quoting Aesma (Reply 14):
As long as we're here. Where we left, things are different, and I'm sure the Taliban will be back in power in no time after 2014.

Well, if nothing else, at least a decade of women will have some education, and that can't be taken away from them. Hopefully these women will have some influence over at least part of the country long term and can advocate for women's rights to education and other things too.

[Edited 2012-10-10 12:20:43]
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Newark727
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RE: Taliban Shoot Young Girl Peace Activist

Wed Oct 10, 2012 7:59 pm

Quoting Revelation (Reply 16):

Thus we know she was specifically targeted, this comes from the Taliban itself.

We don't see them calling out girl's education, but that indeed is the source of her fame.

Put another way, there was no other reason to specifically target her, because I'm sure they can find plenty others that they consider to be obscene infidels.

I'm not exactly disagreeing with this assessment. I know the Taliban target girls' education, and I know that's what got her the attention. I'm saying they did it not just out of their beliefs but to warn anyone else who might challenge their structure, because whatever the relative importance to their beliefs of repressing such education, the practical importance of anyone being allowed to speak out against any of them might well trump it. As I said, there's an element of opportunist thug to the Taliban, I think. They interpret their religion not to allow the education of girls and women and act accordingly, but I doubt that's just out of doctrine alone- shooting up schools is a message of chaos and terror that serves their strategic aims as well.
 
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RE: Taliban Shoot Young Girl Peace Activist

Wed Oct 10, 2012 8:18 pm

Quoting Revelation (Thread starter):
Shows how truly intolerant and ignorant the Taliban are.

Yes, it seems like every day I read about some sort of this savagery going on somewhere. Has it been going on so long Muslims have become numb to it?

Seems to me the supression of free-speech is somehow tied-in to all of this savagery, as though somehow they can keep the world from finding out about these crimes. I do keep waiting to see if a "wave" of Muslim anger over this kind of stuff will rise-up and put a stop to it once and for all.
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RE: Taliban Shoot Young Girl Peace Activist

Wed Oct 10, 2012 8:40 pm

Quoting DeltaMD90 (Reply 4):
Many criticize Muslims for not speaking out against terrorism... easy to say behind a computer in a safe country. She did and look what happened...

Yes, it is easy to do. Because I, and most in the free world, enjoy the right to say what they want (within certain limits, in certain nations) and not fear being put to death by terrorists...or the government.

When will the Muslim world join that world?
.

Quoting ImperialEagle (Reply 19):
I do keep waiting to see if a "wave" of Muslim anger over this kind of stuff will rise-up and put a stop to it once and for all.

I look forward to it. I won't hold my breath, but I will cheer it and support it if I can, if it ever comes.

Quoting DocLightning (Reply 17):
Trying to kill them is like trying to kill cockroaches or field mice. They keep popping back up.

Then you keep killing them.

I'm sorry. Islamic terrorism (and other terrorists) are a scourge that must be expunged from civil society. Yes, let's address, within reason, what drives people to such extremes, but let's deal with the FACT, that in many countries it is the Islamic leadership that foments the anger.

As for some of the other posts: pretty much what I expected from the normal cast of Islamic terrorist apologists
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RE: Taliban Shoot Young Girl Peace Activist

Wed Oct 10, 2012 8:42 pm

Quoting Newark727 (Reply 18):
I'm not exactly disagreeing with this assessment.

Indeed, I did get that, and I hope/imagine other readers do too, but...

Quoting Newark727 (Reply 18):
I'm saying they did it not just out of their beliefs but to warn anyone else who might challenge their structure

.. I feel to make this point is to dilute the impact this event should have.

I think of myself as a 'honor cultural differences, live and let live' kind of guy, but I'm incredibly angry about this shooting. Part of this is that I have been following her story since 2009, and part of it is because I am lucky enough to have known some great Muslim daughters of a friend of mine who are of a similar age group and can't imagine denying them an education.

As above, it is pointed out that many Muslims support girl's education, and as I say I am blessed to have seen many devout Muslims I've known do all in their power to make sure their daughters got great educations.

I truly hope this particular group of Muslims will see the negative impact of this particular savage act and learn from it.

I know that my desires aren't all that likely to happen, but I will keep up my hopes.

It seems the impact is beginning to resonate:

One article:

Quote:

Pakistani officials have offered a 10m rupee ($105,000; £66,000) reward for information leading to the arrest of the attackers of a prominent teenage rights campaigner.

...

Malala Yousafzai is still unconscious in hospital in Peshawar, where she has been visited by army chief Gen Ashfaq Parvez Kayani and Interior Minister Rehman Malik.

Mr Malik said the "whole gang" who carried out the attack had been identified and said the nation "will not let them run away, we will catch and punish them".

Gen Kayani said it was time to "stand up to fight the propagators of such barbaric mindset and their sympathisers".

Ref: http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-asia-19901277

Another:

Quote:

Mr. Hussain announced a government reward of more than $100,000 for information leading to the arrest of her attackers. “Whoever has done it is not a human and does not have a human soul,” he said.

Across the rest of the country, Pakistanis reacted with outrage to the attack on the girl, whose eloquent and determined advocacy of girls’ education had made her powerful symbol of resistance to Taliban ideology.

“Malala is our pride. She became an icon for the country,” Interior Minister Rehman Malik said.

Ref: http://www.nytimes.com/2012/10/11/wo...ting-of-malala-yousafzai.html?_r=0

I do realize that the Pakistan Army has its own agenda too, and I also hope this issue can find a way to transcend all of that.
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Newark727
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RE: Taliban Shoot Young Girl Peace Activist

Wed Oct 10, 2012 8:52 pm

Quoting Revelation (Reply 21):

.. I feel to make this point is to dilute the impact this event should have.

I think of myself as a 'honor cultural differences, live and let live' kind of guy, but I'm incredibly angry about this shooting.

Maybe it is. And I'm certainly not going to begrudge you your anger. I just find it hard to see anyone with power left in that region as anything more than an opportunist - maybe a little more, but not much - and the Taliban's larger motives and the particular theocratic concept that they're pushing by attacking this girl coincide pretty easily.
 
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RE: Taliban Shoot Young Girl Peace Activist

Wed Oct 10, 2012 9:23 pm

Quoting fr8mech (Reply 20):
When will the Muslim world join that world?

My point is it is pretty tough to with the brutality over there. I think the Arab Spring was a step in the right direction (overthrowing dictators even if it is replaced with organizations "we" don't like.) I'm sure their lives have gotten better, but it'll take time before they realize that the organizations in power (the theocracies and such) aren't what is best and there is something better.

I guess what I'm trying to say is yes, I hope for a Muslim movement for peace but events like these can show you why it isn't happening faster

Quoting fr8mech (Reply 20):
Then you keep killing them.

Don't get me wrong, I think when force is due it should be used. And I'm not sure if this thought is really on topic in this thread, but I think if we cut back on some of our actions (the ones I don't think we're justified in doing, meddling around in the Middle East so much) there will be less "to kill." By all means, fight them when they go against our fundamental rights

Quoting ImperialEagle (Reply 19):
I do keep waiting to see if a "wave" of Muslim anger over this kind of stuff will rise-up and put a stop to it once and for all.

I think we all are, but again, lack of action isn't necessarily condoning a behavior... there is real fear over there. We saw the Iranians rise up and get crushed... it's clear they don't want their government. But it's hard to rise up when the military cracks down. It's just like when a shooter comes in a room and starts blasting away. If everyone charged the shooter, the shooter could be disarmed/killed, saving lives. BUT, who are going to be the few that take the bullets initially and die, being the first ones to charge? Plus, how much confidence will you have charging the shooter when you aren't sure if you're gonna be backed up?

Most of the population in these countries are just like us... they may hate their government, but they are willing to put up with it so they don't die. I fall back to my original point: easy for us to tell them to rise up, we won't be the ones dying
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Newark727
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RE: Taliban Shoot Young Girl Peace Activist

Wed Oct 10, 2012 9:28 pm

Quoting DeltaMD90 (Reply 23):

My point is it is pretty tough to with the brutality over there. I think the Arab Spring was a step in the right direction (overthrowing dictators even if it is replaced with organizations "we" don't like.) I'm sure their lives have gotten better, but it'll take time before they realize that the organizations in power (the theocracies and such) aren't what is best and there is something better.

I'm going to take your point a step further and say that the combination of circumstances that created "the West" is quite unique and "our" position in the context of governments and civilizations, relative to "theirs," is a hard thing to compare on a one to one basis. We may not like what they've made so far and we have to keep an eye on it in a sense to prevent truly monstrous or threatening orders to emerge, but the fact is it's what they made, not us, and we can't expect them to form a bicameral legislature combined with an executive and judicial branch and have it work exactly as ours does overnight, when they haven't undergone a lot of the factors that led to such a thing emerging to begin with.
 
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RE: Taliban Shoot Young Girl Peace Activist

Wed Oct 10, 2012 9:45 pm

Quoting Newark727 (Reply 24):

And further again, kind of an outshoot, but it's clear that a majority of Americans are pissed off with their government and we are having a tough time changing it! In a democracy, no fear of the government coming down on us...

We can't do that, so how do we expect a bunch of dirt poor people, probably with less communication/coordination, to rise up against a government that'll use Hinds, RPGs, tanks, and machines guns against them indiscriminately?

I'm really not being an Islamist apologist. I hope that a wave of democracy sweeps over the Middle East.
At the same time, I'm definitely not going to criticize these people, claiming they are "ok with terrorism" and ask "well where's the change already?" because, well, if you speak out, you and your family (or even village) is going to die.

If I had to fear getting wiped out and I was living at a level where putting food on the table is an accomplishment, I could care less about some people flying planes in to buildings. I mean really, OUR problems are so far removed from the average Joe in this country, I think it's kind of egotistical to expect them to demand change when we're inconvenienced.

Put yourself in their shoes and pretend like you care about Americans as you care about a random person in Timbuktu. That's the reality of the situation
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RE: Taliban Shoot Young Girl Peace Activist

Wed Oct 10, 2012 10:37 pm

Quoting soon7x7 (Reply 1):
and no one wants to stand up against it. Shame on us all.

Pardon?? What, you mean apart from sacrificing a good portion of our young fighting men there to stand up precisely against this kind of crap?? Nice one. Glad they didn't die in vain, eh?
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RE: Taliban Shoot Young Girl Peace Activist

Wed Oct 10, 2012 10:50 pm

Quoting Revelation (Thread starter):
Shows how truly intolerant and ignorant the Taliban are.

Meanwhile ~1500 Americans lose their lives at the hands of other Americans on the streets of America this month.
.
It makes more sense to concentrate on problems in foreign countries 7000 miles away versus trying to fix much more serious problems at home first.

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RE: Taliban Shoot Young Girl Peace Activist

Wed Oct 10, 2012 11:01 pm

Quoting fr8mech (Reply 20):
Then you keep killing them.

Fair enough. But if they have food (in the form of fear and poverty) then they will keep popping up.
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RE: Taliban Shoot Young Girl Peace Activist

Thu Oct 11, 2012 12:08 am

Quoting Newark727 (Reply 24):
I'm going to take your point a step further and say that the combination of circumstances that created "the West" is quite unique and "our" position in the context of governments and civilizations, relative to "theirs," is a hard thing to compare on a one to one basis

Why do you need to find a point of comparison? That urge is something that should be resisted as often as possible because it leads to rationalization. We've seen bits and pieces of it here recently on this forum, where people who aren't aware of Godwin's Law pass off all kinds of things by saying what the evil German regime did was worse.

Here we have a 11 year old girl who wrote about the changes to her education that came when the Taliban came to power now being shot at age 14, and the group that did it saying that they are going to continue to hunt her down and kill her if/when they can.

Why can't you evaluate this without reaching for some sort of comparison?
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Newark727
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RE: Taliban Shoot Young Girl Peace Activist

Thu Oct 11, 2012 12:45 am

Quoting Revelation (Reply 29):

Why do you need to find a point of comparison? That urge is something that should be resisted as often as possible because it leads to rationalization. We've seen bits and pieces of it here recently on this forum, where people who aren't aware of Godwin's Law pass off all kinds of things by saying what the evil German regime did was worse.

Here we have a 11 year old girl who wrote about the changes to her education that came when the Taliban came to power now being shot at age 14, and the group that did it saying that they are going to continue to hunt her down and kill her if/when they can.

Why can't you evaluate this without reaching for some sort of comparison?

I wasn't reaching for a comparison. I was pointing out how easy it is to get it wrong when such a thing is done. The fact is, people keep trolling for a massive uprising against Islamist brutality and when it doesn't happen they blame entire societies. While there's a grain of truth to that, the fact is we take the freedom of speech for granted here, to the point of invoking the 1st Amendment in places where it blatantly doesn't apply, where in many places freedom of anything barely exists as a concept and there are people, like the Taliban as seen here, who will physically harm you for expressing views they disagree with. People on this forum are basically baiting all kinds of equivocating arguments by saying "where is the Muslim moderation that could put a stop to this," but this is in fact one reason why such moderation might not be being expressed. Also, you removed the part of my quote where I was talking about Arab Spring governments, which I suppose I should have made much more clear. It's vile that this thing can take place, and it's easy to lose sight of it when you're typing on a computer in the United States. If I've done that, I'm sorry, because it really is awful. But you can lose sight of it in the other direction too, as when someone says "Islamic terrorist apologist" about posters in this thread.
 
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RE: Taliban Shoot Young Girl Peace Activist

Thu Oct 11, 2012 1:05 am

Quoting DocLightning (Reply 28):
But if they have food (in the form of fear and poverty) then they will keep popping up.

And, we (the civilized world) has to help them deal with that...within reason. We drop billions of dollars in aid into those countries and what do we get? Clearly, it's not just an issue of money. It's culture, it's norms, it's the populations' education and expectations.

The question is: is it our responsibility? Is it our obligation? Does it fall within the purview of our national security to help the people of these countries educate themselves?

Do we even have a stake in the game? Is that stake big enough for us to need to take action?

I may come off as a hard-ass here, but I'm sick and tired of hearing about extremist Islamic groups committing atrocities and expecting us (the civilized world) to continue to treat them with kid gloves.

And, don't get me wrong, I understand that the moderate Muslims living in the midst of these animals have pretty much a binary choice: shut-up, accept it and live or speak out and die. But what of those influential Muslims living abroad? Why aren't they standing on tables and screaming out loud about the atrocities being committed in the name of their religion? Where are they?

Quoting Newark727 (Reply 30):
to the point of invoking the 1st Amendment in places where it blatantly doesn't apply,

Yes, but the protections of The First Amendment do apply here and the Islamists (including some political leaders) want us to curtail our freedoms so as not to inflame Muslims.

I am not a fan of nation building.
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RE: Taliban Shoot Young Girl Peace Activist

Thu Oct 11, 2012 1:07 am

Quoting fr8mech (Reply 31):
And, we (the civilized world) has to help them deal with that...within reason. We drop billions of dollars in aid into those countries and what do we get?

How fast did you want it to happen? This is going to take 30 years, not ten.
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Newark727
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RE: Taliban Shoot Young Girl Peace Activist

Thu Oct 11, 2012 1:10 am

Quoting fr8mech (Reply 31):

Yes, but the protections of The First Amendment do apply here and the Islamists (including some political leaders) want us to curtail our freedoms so as not to inflame Muslims.

I wasn't talking about Islam specifically there. The fact is that it's "Congress may make no law" not "Youtube" or "Some website I like to post on that deleted my stuff" or anything else. Sadly, Islamic political leaders make hay with the misunderstanding that the U.S. is responsible for everything our idiots say, which has been suggested to be pretty prevalent though honestly I don't really think so, it's more about wanting to be angry at something.
 
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RE: Taliban Shoot Young Girl Peace Activist

Thu Oct 11, 2012 1:38 am

Quoting DocLightning (Reply 32):
This is going to take 30 years, not ten.

We've been giving them aid, in some fashion, for longer than that. I think the aid started shortly after the hijackings began.


Quoting Newark727 (Reply 33):
Sadly, Islamic political leaders make hay with the misunderstanding that the U.S. is responsible for everything our idiots say, which has been suggested to be pretty prevalent though honestly I don't really think so, it's more about wanting to be angry at something.

Exactly. They don't misunderstand. Too many of them are well educated (some here in the States) to make that mistake. They want their people to hate us. Churn in some in some religion and it's God's will that they hate us. It keeps the populace from hating them.

Look, I'm not a fan of nation building, but, I am a fan of doing what we can to protect ourselves...and sometimes that means acting proactively.
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RE: Taliban Shoot Young Girl Peace Activist

Thu Oct 11, 2012 2:01 am

Quoting fr8mech (Reply 34):
It keeps the populace from hating them.

This is an important point. Laying aside Islam for just a second, the Arab world is demographically pretty young- not so sure as you move toward Iran, Afghanistan, and Pakistan, if that still holds true- and it seems that their leaders kind of suck at creating much opportunity for them, at least at the moment. The United States was lucky to have its baby boom at a time when the economy could mostly sustain that level of population growth and even then things got a little weird in the sixties and seventies (or so I'm told.) There's the oil money in a lot of them, but that only goes so far- it feels like they're creating programs with the money to keep the populace from being dirt poor, but they're not doing much to actually develop beyond that. Anyway, I'm not so sure about all that but I thought it was worth mentioning, digression over.
 
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RE: Taliban Shoot Young Girl Peace Activist

Thu Oct 11, 2012 2:03 am

Quoting fr8mech (Reply 3):
When are responsible Muslims going to finally wake-up and depose their alleged religious compatriots? When will they rise up and loudly (and yes, violently) shutdown, these animals?


Looks like she tried...look at the results...what barbarians! Evil will win when good men do nothing...in this case it may be Muslim women that will effect change over time.
 
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RE: Taliban Shoot Young Girl Peace Activist

Thu Oct 11, 2012 2:10 am

Quoting Newark727 (Reply 30):
I was pointing out how easy it is to get it wrong when such a thing is done.

Yes, but again, this leads us to talking about everything BUT this exact event.

Your opinion on this exact event seems to at best be coming in via side comments.

I'd be happier if you'd just give us your take what this exact event means to you, instead of a lot of talk about context, comparison, etc.

Clearly this exact event is not one with a lot of ambiguity to it, no?

Quoting fr8mech (Reply 34):
Exactly. They don't misunderstand. Too many of them are well educated (some here in the States) to make that mistake. They want their people to hate us. Churn in some in some religion and it's God's will that they hate us. It keeps the populace from hating them.

I have to wonder if you've had any meaningful interactions with any Muslims educated in the US or other Western countries, because if you had, I think you'd come to the conclusion that the ones who come here as extremists or become extremists when here are the outliers, the tiny shaving at the wrong end of the bell curve.

You really should make the effort to contact your local mosque or Islamic center and see if they have some outreach programs because you are so far off base, especially if you go around making statements that it's others looking for people to hate.
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RE: Taliban Shoot Young Girl Peace Activist

Thu Oct 11, 2012 2:12 am

Quoting Newark727 (Reply 5):
Yes, a young woman got shot for speaking out against terrorism, let's jump straight to the Islam chat.

No one here started the Islam chant.

This medieval thug and all round scumbag..oops sorry, to the supporters and apologists, honoured and revered spokesman did it for us--

Quote:
"It's a clear command of sharia that any female, that by any means plays a role in war against the mujahedeen, should be killed," said spokesman Ehsanullah Ehsan
Ehsanullah Ehsan told BBC Urdu that they attacked her because she was anti-Taliban and secular, adding that she would not be spared.
Tehrik-e-Taliban Pakistan (TTP) circulated a lengthy statement that tried to justify the assassination with references to Islamic history and the Qur'an.
It said that although the TTP did not believe in attacking women, it was obliged to kill anyone "whosever leads campaign against Islam and sharia" and that her main crime was "because of her pioneer role in preaching secularism and so-called enlightened moderation".
It also said that Yousafzai had been guilty of inviting Muslims to hate the mujahideen, as the insurgents style themselves.


This enlightened and revered organisation has since gone on record as saying that should Malala survive they will continue targeting her and her family until she is dead..

Quoting 777way (Reply 9):
however work wise conservatives prefer women stay home

I am getting sick of this BS, dark age mentalities want to suppress womens rights, stop apologising for thuggery

Quoting 777way (Reply 9):
Islam has made it obligatory for believing men and women to seek knowledge,

Then the billion or so moderate and enlightened Muslims.. if they are indeed of that conviction need to stand up to the thugs, bullies and criminals and say enough is enough!


And in other news a teenage Indonesian rape victim was expelled, publicly in front of the other pupils, for dishonouring her school. It must be said that in Indonesia there is some sanity and presssure was brought on the school to allow her back... But will she want to??
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RE: Taliban Shoot Young Girl Peace Activist

Thu Oct 11, 2012 2:39 am

Quoting Revelation (Reply 37):
I have to wonder if you've had any meaningful interactions with any Muslims educated in the US or other Western countries, because if you had, I think you'd come to the conclusion that the ones who come here as extremists or become extremists when here are the outliers, the tiny shaving at the wrong end of the bell curve.

Please read carefully. I wrote:

Quoting fr8mech (Reply 34):
Too many of them are well educated (some here in the States) to make that mistake.

Some, not all, not the majority...some.

By the way, someone I consider a very good friend is a US educated Muslim. He's not an extremist. He's not radical. He's just an observant Muslim who abhors what has become of his religion. He so hates what how his religion has been hijacked, that he has chosen to raise his children Catholic (his wife's faith). That's how I met him, through our kids.

Quoting Revelation (Reply 37):
especially if you go around making statements that it's others looking for people to hate.

You deny that some of their leaders (secular and religious, where there's a difference) don't go out of their way to foment hate against all things Western?
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RE: Taliban Shoot Young Girl Peace Activist

Thu Oct 11, 2012 3:03 am

Quoting Revelation (Reply 37):

Yes, but again, this leads us to talking about everything BUT this exact event.

Your opinion on this exact event seems to at best be coming in via side comments.

I'd be happier if you'd just give us your take what this exact event means to you, instead of a lot of talk about context, comparison, etc.

Clearly this exact event is not one with a lot of ambiguity to it, no?

Most people have a highly negative opinion of attempted murder. I am not an exception. I was simply first coming at it from an angle of bloodthirsty thugs ensuring that they stay on top of the pile, because anyone with a reasonable and humane creed would not be shooting fourteen-year-olds for their blog posts. If that and subsequent postings about the nature of the Arab Spring that slipped in afterwards seemed a bit ambiguous and desultory, well, I kind of am that way sometimes, but it's an effect that's magnified when the typical response to anything at all happening in the Muslim world on this site tends to range from "I thought there were moderate peace-loving ones, guess not" to "Islam is founded on violence."
 
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RE: Taliban Shoot Young Girl Peace Activist

Thu Oct 11, 2012 5:23 am

Quoting fr8mech (Reply 3):
Where are the good Muslims? Why do they do little or nothing at all?

I don't know whether you count him among the "good" but chief of the army staff, General General Ashfaq Parvez Kayani condemned the attack, denouncing the attackers as cowards, quoting the Qur'an, 'the one who is not kind to children, is not amongst us” Kayani said the militants did not have respect for the words of the Holy Prophet.

Meanwhile there have been protests in Islamabad against the cowardly act and calling on the Government of Pakistan to protect the people from such attacks.

Meanwhile local authorities in Pakistan have issued a $10,000 reward for the capture of the Taliban gunman. This is good news and hopefully a sign that the authorities in Pakistan will finally crack down on these cowardly attackers. Other good news is that Malala appears to be recovering following the removal of the bullet but an aircraft is on standby to take her to Dubai for further treatment if necessary.

In a general comment, the tendency to lump all Muslims or Islamic countries together is not useful as it masks the very real differences that may exist between them. While the Taliban is opposed to the education of girls and women, in Saudi Arabia - where women may not drive - women make up about 58% of students enrolled at universities. In the UAE the Government has been encouraging the promotion of women into positions of leadership. I am not saying that everything is coming up roses, but it is still a far cry from the conditions that the Taliban seek to impose.
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RE: Taliban Shoot Young Girl Peace Activist

Thu Oct 11, 2012 1:39 pm

Quoting fr8mech (Reply 35):
You deny that some of their leaders (secular and religious, where there's a difference) don't go out of their way to foment hate against all things Western?

No, but I know the best way to effect change is to focus on the good deeds of the Muslims I've been fortunate to know, and encourage others to do the same. Not to pick on you, but your post did suggest to me that you had never interacted with kind and caring Muslims, but I now stand corrected. My point is that if I went around focusing on the actions of the Irish Republican Army or pedophile priests, it'd be downplaying all the good I see Catholics doing around me all the time. And no, I don't want to compare the IRA to the Taliban either. I want to focus on the good we see in most people every day, especially the good deeds of this young girl, and the up-swell of support she is getting as she goes through her current suffering.

I do hope that all decent human beings will recognize that education is an imperative for both males and females and work to banish contrary thought and practice. I hope this issue will be a turning point.

Quoting Newark727 (Reply 36):
Most people have a highly negative opinion of attempted murder. I am not an exception. I was simply first coming at it from an angle of bloodthirsty thugs ensuring that they stay on top of the pile, because anyone with a reasonable and humane creed would not be shooting fourteen-year-olds for their blog posts.

Maybe naive again, but I honestly spend time thinking about why these people join these organizations, and I don't think it's from hatred, I think it's from sheer ignorance. One of my friends is from Pakistan, and he tells me even educated Americans typically do not have the context to understand how little education there is in the tribal regions and how totally dependent the population is on the local cleric to get their world view, and chances are if your local cleric is very conservative or even militant, that's the world view most in that particular village will have. That provides the baseline support, and add to that the tiny minority of educated Muslims who are militant, and you have huge problems. The best way to fix this is to campaign for more education and more outreach, but as noted, that will take decades, and needs constant efforts on everyone's part.

Quoting Newark727 (Reply 36):
If that and subsequent postings about the nature of the Arab Spring that slipped in afterwards seemed a bit ambiguous and desultory, well, I kind of am that way sometimes

As am I, but as I've noted, this issue seems to have really focused me.

Also, I've seen many interesting topics here on this forum start off interesting but devolve back into some "discussed to death" topics that really deprive us of the chance to look at the new topic in any sort of depth.

Quoting Quokkas (Reply 37):
I don't know whether you count him among the "good" but chief of the army staff, General General Ashfaq Parvez Kayani condemned the attack, denouncing the attackers as cowards, quoting the Qur'an, 'the one who is not kind to children, is not amongst us” Kayani said the militants did not have respect for the words of the Holy Prophet.

Thank you for the summary of the support she is getting. I too found the words of the General touching, but also do know that the Pakistani Army has its own agenda, and I truly hope this General is being sincere. I also found the words of the UN General Secretary Ban Ki-Moon to be quite welcome.

It is also said that the assailants have been identified, but the authorities have not been able to capture them.

[Edited 2012-10-11 07:37:38]
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RE: Taliban Shoot Young Girl Peace Activist

Thu Oct 11, 2012 6:40 pm

Today we read:

Pakistani schoolgirl shot by Taliban moved to army HQ hospital which has some stuff I found interesting:

Quote:

doctors said she had moved her arms and legs slightly the night before

and:

Quote:

On Wednesday, White House spokesman Jay Carney said the United States had offered any assistance necessary.

"The president found the news reprehensible and disgusting and tragic," Carney told reporters.

"Directing violence at children is barbaric, it's cowardly, and our hearts go out to her and the others who were wounded as well as their families."
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RE: Taliban Shoot Young Girl Peace Activist

Fri Oct 12, 2012 1:18 pm

I'm glad to read today that:

Quote:

Pakistan has arrested three suspects in the remote Swat Valley for the shooting of 14-year-old activist Malala Yousafzai. Police say the three men, aged 17 to 22, were involved in the attack, but that they all said the mastermind was a man Attaullah, who is still at large.

Ref: http://news.yahoo.com/arrests-made-s...-old-pakistani-girl-114530782.html
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RE: Taliban Shoot Young Girl Peace Activist

Fri Oct 12, 2012 1:37 pm

Quoting Revelation (Reply 40):
I'm glad to read today that:

You have not seen the end-game yet - don't be so glad.

Remember the story of the retarded 14-year old christian girl who was accused of blasphemy, and it turned out that one of the local Imams actually set the whole thing up as an excuse to drive Christians out of town?

http://www.bosnewslife.com/23917-bre...phemy-girl-in-norway-official-says

Quote:
ISLAMABAD/OSLO (BosNewsLife)-- A mentally challenged Christian girl who was detained in Pakistan on charges of 'blasphemy against Islam' has fled to Norway with family members, a Christian official involved in the operation confirmed Monday, October 8.

...Rimsha Masih was jailed August 17 in a prison near Islamabad after allegedly burning pages with verses of the Koran, viewed as holy book by Muslims.

...Imam Hafiz Mohammed Khalid Chisht allegedly stashed Koranic papers in the girl‘s bag to ensure her conviction and push out Christians from the area, charges he strongly denied.

...Three witnesses who initially confirmed Chisht's actions later withdrew their statements saying they were recorded under police pressure.

I should think that, in this story, as soon as the suspects stand in front of a judge and say, "we shot her because of her blasphemy", the judge will be forced to reply,"Sounds like she deserved it, you are free to go."
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RE: Taliban Shoot Young Girl Peace Activist

Fri Oct 12, 2012 1:47 pm

Quoting Dreadnought (Reply 41):
I should think that, in this story, as soon as the suspects stand in front of a judge and say, "we shot her because of her blasphemy", the judge will be forced to reply,"Sounds like she deserved it, you are free to go."

You have not seen the end-game yet - don't be so pessimistic.
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RE: Taliban Shoot Young Girl Peace Activist

Fri Oct 12, 2012 4:44 pm

Quoting Dreadnought (Reply 41):
You have not seen the end-game yet - don't be so glad.

It's a step in the right direction, as well as:

Quote:

Religious leaders in Pakistan have condemned the shooting of teenage education rights activist Malala Yousafzai, during a special day of prayer across the country.

Clerics on Friday declared the attempt on her life, made by Pakistani Taliban gunmen while the 14-year-old girl was on her way home from school in the Swat valley, to be "un-Islamic".

The joint fatwa, or religious edict, was issued by at least 50 scholars associated with the Sunni Ittehad Council (SIC), and appealed to worshippers to observe a "day of condemnation" on Friday.

"Islam holds the killing of one innocent person as killing the entirety of humanity," Hamid Saeed Kazmi, a former religious affairs minister in Pakistan, told reporters.

"It also forbids the killing of a woman who has even denounced her religion."

but my real concern is around:

Quote:

Yousafzai remains in critical condition, with doctors fearful of potential brain damage after removing a bullet from her skull. She remains stable and sedated, said a statement at a military press briefing early on Friday afternoon.

"Her condition is not yet out of danger despite improvement. She is being shifted to Rawalpindi," Masood Kausar, the governor of the northwestern Khyber Pakhtunkhwa province, told reporters.

Earlier, one of her doctors, Mumtaz Khan, said that Yousafzai had improved, but she was still seriously ill.

"She has been put on a ventilator for two days. The bullet has affected some part of the brain, but there is a 70 per cent chance that she will survive," he said.

Ref: http://news.yahoo.com/clerics-declar...shooting-un-islamic-095332318.html
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RE: Taliban Shoot Young Girl Peace Activist

Sat Oct 13, 2012 2:41 pm

Where is the outrage? Where are the protesting mobs in the street? If some infidel so much as sneezes on a koran there would massive demonstrations and riots in the street. However when a girl is shot, all we get is some feeble words of condemnation. Meanwhile another Christian in Pakistan has been arrested for "blasphemy" and his family's house is ransacked by an outraged mob. What a sick sick society.
 
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RE: Taliban Shoot Young Girl Peace Activist

Sat Oct 13, 2012 3:55 pm

Quoting victrola (Reply 44):
Where is the outrage?

I too wish there was more vocal support for this young girl.

I would like to see the Pakistani Taliban receive as much outrage and disgust as did the makers of that garbage anti-Islamic film.
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RE: Taliban Shoot Young Girl Peace Activist

Sat Oct 13, 2012 5:31 pm

Quoting victrola (Reply 44):

Hey, that's just how humans are. There are a lot of good individuals but then when you put them together and create a society all the bad things and stupidity condense and go over good things. Hitler in Germany, some conservative Imams in some Muslim countries and long list goes on, you can see big masses following all kinds of totally stupid ideologies of small minority.

This is universal thing that can be seen everywhere, I humans were not meant to live in large populations.
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RE: Taliban Shoot Young Girl Peace Activist

Sun Oct 14, 2012 2:34 am

Quoting victrola (Reply 44):
Where is the outrage?

As indicated above, there have been protests and gatherings in support of the girl so cowardly shot. On Friday schools opened with prayers for Malala and special prayers were held at mosques across the country for her speedy recovery.

The question that you might like to ask is "why isn't it more widely being reported?" Perhaps it is because decent people don't generally riot and rampage and that doesn't make for dramatic television and hysterical headlines. Besides, it doesn't fit in with the subtext: all Muslims are bad.

It is a bit like when the attack on the US Consul in Libya occurred. It was reported that Islamists attacked and killed the consul, but when other Muslims fought them off it was simply reported as Libyans and not Muslims. Why? Because it doesn't fit the subtext.
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RE: Taliban Shoot Young Girl Peace Activist

Sun Oct 14, 2012 9:20 am

This morning's news says:

Quote:

Doctors reviewed the girl's condition Sunday and are satisfied she is making slow and steady progress, the military said. They will carry out another detailed review Sunday evening.

On Saturday, the military said Yousufzai remained on a ventilator but was able to move her legs and hands after her sedatives were reduced.

Ref: http://news.yahoo.com/uae-send-air-a...e-girl-shot-taliban-065901976.html
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RE: Taliban Shoot Young Girl Peace Activist

Sun Oct 14, 2012 9:39 am

Quoting Quokkas (Reply 47):
It is a bit like when the attack on the US Consul in Libya occurred. It was reported that Islamists attacked and killed the consul, but when other Muslims fought them off it was simply reported as Libyans and not Muslims. Why? Because it doesn't fit the subtext.

I disagree, the people that fought off the Islamists in Libya, their numbers may have encompassed Muslims(no doubt) but there may have been more secular Libyans, non believers and perhaps even Christian Libyans, yet the out of control rabble that pillage burn and kill because they are outraged by an idiotic short film or want to lynch a young girl because they were incited by a fraud fabricated to foment hatred and violence are almost exclusivley "Muslim" and in your words almost certainly "fit the subtext"

What would be the reaction if Christian groups had caused this kind of havoc & violence over the persecution of the young Christian girl in Pakistan or feminist groups killed and rioted over the shooting of young Malala?

It would not be tolerated yet the Islamist apologists continue to rationalise and justify these actions by medieval ratbags.
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