kiwiinoz
Topic Author
Posts: 1999
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Social Media Bullying

Mon Oct 15, 2012 6:59 am

I read with great interest the following tragic story:

http://www.theage.com.au/technology/...dwritten-notes-20121015-27lww.html

It saddened me greatly, and got me thinking, the following things struck me:

She made a mistake when she was 12. It was silly, although not out of the ordinary for people around that age. I knew girls, (and boys) when I was that age that did similar things. They were not sluts or morons. Just kids mucking around. I have a daughter myself who we raise very well. But I am not so self absorbed in my own parenting qualities that I could completely rule out this kind of behaviour in the future, if for a fleeting moment of silliness with friends.

The second thing that struck me is the sheer number of people involved and the depth of cruelty that people can sink to, when hiding behind the internet. The fact that so many random people willingly coerced her into taking her own life. I have always believed that people are, on balance, good. It seems that when some perceive there to be no personal consequences to their actions, large numbers ofpeople can be very very bad..

There are some people out there who will say that she brought this upon herself. That her original mistake, and perhaps subsequent handling of it brought about her demise. But I don't think so. I see this as an evolutionary issue. Vulnerable young children, historically easy to protect by what their parents can see for themselves, are now being thrown together with adults and the trash that comes with it in cyberspace. And they dont know how to manage it

I hope her stalker gets what's coming to him
 
seb146
Posts: 13925
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RE: Social Media Bullying

Mon Oct 15, 2012 7:07 am

Quoting kiwiinoz (Thread starter):
I hope her stalker gets what's coming to him

No, probably not. What I absolutly hate is the gays. We all think we need to stand up to bullying but we don't even know we do it. I am considered fat. I am like 6ft2in and 200 pounds but trying very hard to turn into muscle. For a straight girl, I am nice looking. But, for the gays, I am fat. And they don't hesitate to let me know. The same gays who hate bullying. I am so frustrated. And people (my boyfriend in particular) wonder why I hate hanging with other gays.
Patriotic and Proud Liberal
 
Maverick623
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RE: Social Media Bullying

Mon Oct 15, 2012 9:27 am

Let's get one thing straight: she was NOT bullied into committing suicide. By the very FACT that she went online to cry for help, shows that she was aware of all the anti-bullying material (and especially the "It Gets Better" videos).

No, this was a girl who had serious mental health issues, with parents who couldn't be bothered to get it taken care of, which led to increasingly reckless behaviors. First, the nude pictures. Second, the drug use. Third, the sleeping around with a guy who had a girlfriend who found out about it and whooped her ass for it. She even had a previous suicide attempt before her successful one.

It deeply offends me that her suicide is being chalked up to being bullied by her parents and the media.
"PHX is Phoenix, PDX is the other city" -777Way
 
aloges
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RE: Social Media Bullying

Mon Oct 15, 2012 10:42 am

Quoting kiwiinoz (Thread starter):
I have always believed that people are, on balance, good.

IMHO, individuals can do amazing amounts of good. "People" however, those faceless groups which give every individual the chance to hide among the others, tend to turn into evil torch-and-pitchfork mobs - even more so on the internet.

Quoting Maverick623 (Reply 2):
It deeply offends me that her suicide is being chalked up to being bullied by her parents and the media.

Did you read about the stalker who followed her online every time she changed schools, with no other intention than to destroy her reputation?
Don't cry because it's over, smile because it happened.
 
ronglimeng
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RE: Social Media Bullying

Mon Oct 15, 2012 11:58 am

Quoting Maverick623 (Reply 2):
It deeply offends me that her suicide is being chalked up to being bullied by her parents and the media.



I think your post is the first one I've seen anywhere that offers another viewpoint on this story.

I've read so many articles on this tragedy but nowhere does there seem to be any attempt by reporters to get background or even confirmation of the allegations.
 
smittyone
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RE: Social Media Bullying

Mon Oct 15, 2012 2:19 pm

Quoting Maverick623 (Reply 2):
It deeply offends me that her suicide is being chalked up to being bullied by her parents and the media.

Someone repeatedly distributed pornographic images of a child, surreptitiously and intentionally to generate harrassment...and this is what you're 'deeply offended' about?

Quoting Maverick623 (Reply 2):
By the very FACT that she went online to cry for help, shows that she was aware of all the anti-bullying material (and especially the "It Gets Better" videos).

I'm guessing that most people who commit suicide are aware that there are resources available to them.

Quoting Maverick623 (Reply 2):
No, this was a girl who had serious mental health issues, with parents who couldn't be bothered to get it taken care of, which led to increasingly reckless behaviors. First, the nude pictures. Second, the drug use. Third, the sleeping around with a guy who had a girlfriend who found out about it and whooped her ass for it. She even had a previous suicide attempt before her successful one.

You seem to be saying that bullying behavior can't be blamed for a tragic outcome because the targets were 'weak' in the first place.

Quoting aloges (Reply 3):
Did you read about the stalker who followed her online every time she changed schools, with no other intention than to destroy her reputation?

The assclowns in school who tormented her have nothing to be proud of either. The lesson to be learned from this kid's death is that at any point someone could have stood up and said "Hey, everybody STFU this isn't right", including any adults that knew it was happening. But just like Amanda, individuals are weak against a mob.

Quoting ronglimeng (Reply 4):
I've read so many articles on this tragedy but nowhere does there seem to be any attempt by reporters to get background or even confirmation of the allegations.

I find it hard to imagine that she concocted and documented a phony story about being bullied in order to pre-justify her own suicide. I could be wrong, but the cruel shit that people have posted about her posthumously speaks volumes.
 
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Dreadnought
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RE: Social Media Bullying

Mon Oct 15, 2012 3:39 pm

A couple of points:

1) Social Media, like MyFace and FaceSpace and Twatter are here to stay. As much as I may hate the concept, society can't put that genie back in the bottle.

2) There will always be rotten b*stards and b&tches in the world. Deal with it.

3) it all comes down to how much you expose yourself. Society learned that they could send pictures and information about themselves all over the world with a few clicks, and didn't understand the dangers. Now we are seeing the results, and will continue to do so for a long time. In a few years you will have public figures and politicians who grew up in this generation, and you will see their careers blow up because when she was 14 she performed a sex act on her webcam, thinking it was just for her boyfriend who actually recorded it.

The lesson is - educate your kids. Teach them to stay away from Social Media as much as you possibly can, and if they have to use it, always assume that what they post WILL become public knowledge. Remember the New York Times Rule - always assume that whatever you do or say might get published, and control yourself accordingly.
Forget dogs and cats - Spay and neuter your liberals.
 
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Tugger
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RE: Social Media Bullying

Mon Oct 15, 2012 3:55 pm

Quoting Dreadnought (Reply 6):
3) it all comes down to how much you expose yourself. Society learned that they could send pictures and information about themselves all over the world with a few clicks, and didn't understand the dangers. Now we are seeing the results, and will continue to do so for a long time. In a few years you will have public figures and politicians who grew up in this generation, and you will see their careers blow up because when she was 14 she performed a sex act on her webcam, thinking it was just for her boyfriend who actually recorded it.

  

Quoting Dreadnought (Reply 6):
The lesson is - educate your kids. Teach them to stay away from Social Media as much as you possibly can, and if they have to use it, always assume that what they post WILL become public knowledge. Remember the New York Times Rule - always assume that whatever you do or say might get published, and control yourself accordingly.

     

It is a very sad situation, and blame is deserved to be heaped on many of the people involved, and I can't really improve on what you just said Dreadnought.

Tugg
I don’t know that I am unafraid to be myself, but it is hard to be somebody else. -W. Shatner
 
smittyone
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RE: Social Media Bullying

Mon Oct 15, 2012 6:07 pm

Quoting Dreadnought (Reply 6):
3) it all comes down to how much you expose yourself. Society learned that they could send pictures and information about themselves all over the world with a few clicks, and didn't understand the dangers. Now we are seeing the results, and will continue to do so for a long time. In a few years you will have public figures and politicians who grew up in this generation, and you will see their careers blow up because when she was 14 she performed a sex act on her webcam, thinking it was just for her boyfriend who actually recorded it.

The lesson is - educate your kids. Teach them to stay away from Social Media as much as you possibly can, and if they have to use it, always assume that what they post WILL become public knowledge. Remember the New York Times Rule - always assume that whatever you do or say might get published, and control yourself accordingly.

Absolutely. Middle & High School were hard enough when all we had was a wall telephone...I can't imagine how tough it is for kids to navigate the social media of today. Even with the NYT rule the challenge is getting kids to understand the impact of something 'being published'...their assessment would likely be much less conservative than ours!
 
PHX787
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RE: Social Media Bullying

Mon Oct 15, 2012 6:27 pm

Ok This is about as pointless as Coney2012 or whatever it is. Anyone else remember it? Has anything been done? NOPE.


This person had huge issues, and she did not seek the proper help, instead the attention-grabbing patheticness.

I hate that someone dies but in all seriousness, viral campaigns such as this are just as bad as the death itself. Honestly.

People need to stop sucking these social media campaigns up.

That's my rant.
Follow me on twitter: www.twitter.com/phx787
 
Maverick623
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RE: Social Media Bullying

Mon Oct 15, 2012 7:26 pm

Quoting aloges (Reply 3):
Did you read about the stalker who followed her online every time she changed schools, with no other intention than to destroy her reputation?
Quoting SmittyOne (Reply 5):

Someone repeatedly distributed pornographic images of a child, surreptitiously and intentionally to generate harrassment...and this is what you're 'deeply offended' about?
Quoting SmittyOne (Reply 5):

You seem to be saying that bullying behavior can't be blamed for a tragic outcome because the targets were 'weak' in the first place.

Let's go back to my first post, shall we?

Quoting Maverick623 (Reply 2):
this was a girl who had serious mental health issues, with parents who couldn't be bothered to get it taken care of

Again, if you read the story, this whole thing started because she had social issues even before the bullying started.

Quoting SmittyOne (Reply 5):

I find it hard to imagine that she concocted and documented a phony story about being bullied in order to pre-justify her own suicide

I don't. Millions of girls have flashed their boobs on Stickam... isn't it strange that very few of them have resorted to taking up drugs or drinking bleach?

I'm not saying she intentionally did it, or did it with malice. Again, she had severe psychological issues. It's not unreasonable to assume that at least some of her story is inaccurate. After all, she did say getting her ass kicked by a girl whose boyfriend she slept with was part of the bullying.

Quoting ronglimeng (Reply 4):


I think your post is the first one I've seen anywhere that offers another viewpoint on this story.

I've read so many articles on this tragedy but nowhere does there seem to be any attempt by reporters to get background or even confirmation of the allegations.

Unfortunately, that's what our media has become. Apparently we should completely trust the judgements and viewpoints of someone who has attempted suicide more than once?



I realize my posts might be caustic and are offending some of you, but sometimes in order to find out what really went wrong (and to work to see that it never happens again), you need to step out of your comfort zones and confront the real issues.
"PHX is Phoenix, PDX is the other city" -777Way
 
planejamie
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RE: Social Media Bullying

Mon Oct 15, 2012 9:03 pm

I like to refer back to that kid on Twitter that mentioned the diver Tom Daley in offensive tweets about his father. He got a lot of abuse off people on twitter then made death threats to them which caused the police to get involved. After tracking him down, the world found out about him living off benefits and a load of other stuff. The point is some "social media bullies" thrive on attention, both negative and positive. With most self-respecting twitter users of my generation, we all know who "Rileyy_69" is and how much we all hate him for what he did... On the flip side, I think the guy needs help but chances are he's a bully in real life too.

This girl wasn't a bully and did something stupid that she wasn't aware of. I've been through some pretty tough bullying, ironically both based on sexuality and race (which is an odd one given I'm Caucasian and atheist but there we go) when I lived in Saudi - it wasn't the country, but the kids from other countries at the school I was at, in the end the school did get involved and I was leaving by then... This didn't involve social media in anyway whatsoever so it can still happen with or without it, the joys of social media bullying are you can block the person if you don't know them, you can't do that to people in real life sadly.

As for parents giving advice on social media, let me be honest it's normally the kids telling the parents how to use it... and even telling the kids how to be safe, it'll go in one ear and out the other. Personally they should automatically lock down any facebook profile under a certain age (say 16 or 18) so only "friends" can view anything. As for twitter, it's either all private or all open and tbh it's a whole different ball game...

Quoting seb146 (Reply 1):
No, probably not. What I absolutly hate is the gays. We all think we need to stand up to bullying but we don't even know we do it. I am considered fat. I am like 6ft2in and 200 pounds but trying very hard to turn into muscle. For a straight girl, I am nice looking. But, for the gays, I am fat. And they don't hesitate to let me know. The same gays who hate bullying. I am so frustrated. And people (my boyfriend in particular) wonder why I hate hanging with other gays.

Wonderful, blame it on the gays... What you're actually doing there is being homophobic and rather insulting. I'm "Fat" for a gay guy but you know what I move on, I certainly don't go around calling everyone fat - get over yourself, I'm sure you're fine and at the end of the day if you're straight and the girls think you look fine then what's the problem?
 
RussianJet
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RE: Social Media Bullying

Mon Oct 15, 2012 11:18 pm

Regardless of what we believe about how she ended up doing what she did, the fact remains that a young person took their own life. That is always a tragedy.
✈ Every strike of the hammer is a blow against the enemy. ✈
 
seb146
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RE: Social Media Bullying

Mon Oct 15, 2012 11:23 pm

Quoting planejamie (Reply 11):
What you're actually doing there is being homophobic and rather insulting.

If I insult my own kind, is it really homophobic?

Quoting planejamie (Reply 11):
I'm "Fat" for a gay guy but you know what I move on, I certainly don't go around calling everyone fat - get over yourself

Chill. I just made a general observation. When I have visited Capital Hill Seattle or Castro in SF, that is the attitude I get: "Why is such a fat gay here?" These are the same gays who are militant about the "It Gets Better" campaign. The irony is lost on them.

Quoting planejamie (Reply 11):
if you're straight and the girls think you look fine then what's the problem?

My target audience is not straight girls.
Patriotic and Proud Liberal
 
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Tugger
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RE: Social Media Bullying

Tue Oct 16, 2012 12:18 am

Quoting seb146 (Reply 13):
Quoting planejamie (Reply 11):
if you're straight and the girls think you look fine then what's the problem?

My target audience is not straight girls.

See? That's your problem! You're aiming for the wrong target, you just need to change your target audience!
It's a brilliant idea if I do say so myself....    

Tugg
I don’t know that I am unafraid to be myself, but it is hard to be somebody else. -W. Shatner
 
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DeltaMD90
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RE: Social Media Bullying

Tue Oct 16, 2012 12:27 am

I didn't read the article because I already know the story. She *multiple* times exposed herself on camera but her big mistake was allowing the person on the other end to find out who she was... she gave him her Facebook or something. Maybe more info, but it doesn't take much to find someone online. Apparently he threatened to show the pictures of her nude (not send pictures, screenshots of the chat) to her family and friends if she didn't "give him a show" or something. She refused, and he sent the pictures to her family and friends.

She had to change schools but the "stalker(s)" quickly found her new school and kept following her. She ended up abusing alcohol and drugs or something, drank bleach at one point, and killed herself. Her Facebook memorial page got spammed by dozens of fake profiles posting inappropriate stuff.

Not saying I agree with them (I think what they're doing is awful) but they're mad at people for "glorifying her death" when thousands of teens commit suicide and no one cares. Twisted logic, but that's what they say.

The problem is that there are no "cyber police" and if you're smarter than the average user, it's very easy to avoid detection with the police. It's more complex that "hey I used a fake email and used a proxy..." easily caught. These people are a lot smarter, often in foreign countries (making it almost impossible to prosecute.) Many family and friends try and fight these trolls which of course makes it worse.

I agree what she did was super dumb, but I'm sure she learned her lesson before she committed suicide. Cyber bullying (or bullying in general) will NEVER go away... you may be able to crack down, police state style, and stop some of it, but that only does so much. I think we really need to teach kids to be able to cope with it better. Bullying, as wrong as it is (and as extreme as this case was) is a part of everyone's life. Take reasonable steps to thwart it, but also teach victims how to cope with it (not kill themselves)
Ironically I have never flown a Delta MD-90 :)
 
kiwiinoz
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RE: Social Media Bullying

Tue Oct 16, 2012 1:05 am

Quoting Maverick623 (Reply 2):
No, this was a girl who had serious mental health issues, with parents who couldn't be bothered to get it taken care of, which led to increasingly reckless behaviors. First, the nude pictures. Second, the drug use. Third, the sleeping around with a guy who had a girlfriend who found out about it and whooped her ass for it. She even had a previous suicide attempt before her successful one.

All of what you say in this paragraph is correct. And this kind of thing happens to young teenagers. It was the social media bullying element that made this case different and thus, ended her life.

Now I know you might go all Darwinian and :"survival of the fittest" on us but the reality is, this was a child. She deserved more protection.

Quoting Dreadnought (Reply 6):
The lesson is - educate your kids. Teach them to stay away from Social Media as much as you possibly can, and if they have to use it, always assume that what they post WILL become public knowledge. Remember the New York Times Rule - always assume that whatever you do or say might get published, and control yourself accordingly.

Agreed. Again though, when I was 12, I often took great delight in rebeling against such rational instructions!

Quoting Maverick623 (Reply 2):
It deeply offends me that her suicide is being chalked up to being bullied by her parents and the media.

I don't understand how this would offend you
 
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Dreadnought
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RE: Social Media Bullying

Tue Oct 16, 2012 1:23 am

Quoting kiwiinoz (Reply 16):
Agreed. Again though, when I was 12, I often took great delight in rebeling against such rational instructions!

In which case you get what you deserve.

Perhaps you needed a few 'fatal beatings'... http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YBeguUvuDzs
Forget dogs and cats - Spay and neuter your liberals.
 
Maverick623
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RE: Social Media Bullying

Tue Oct 16, 2012 1:30 am

Quoting seb146 (Reply 13):

If I insult my own kind, is it really homophobic?

Maybe we should ask J Edgar Hoover?  
Quoting kiwiinoz (Reply 16):
It was the social media bullying element that made this case different

"Social media" is a fad marketing term that ultimately doesn't mean anything. This case is different because the suicide note was publicly posted in a visual format, and bullying is the media buzzword of the day.

Quoting kiwiinoz (Reply 16):

I don't understand how this would offend you

Because it's ignoring the real issue. There are very few people that have not been teased, tormented, or otherwise bullied at some point in their life. And there are very few people who have not, at one time or another, been the bully, yet we don't see people making videos and killing themselves on a daily basis.

The real issue is that this girl had a serious psychiatric disorder, and it has never even been mentioned by anyone. Trying to solve the problem by targeting only the bullying is like trying to stop a grease fire by pouring water on it.

Quoting kiwiinoz (Reply 16):
Now I know you might go all Darwinian and :"survival of the fittest" on us but the reality is, this was a child. She deserved more protection.

Which has been my point all along. In my first post, I lashed out at her parents for ignoring her problems. They did NOTHING to seek help for her, but merely shuttled her between schools. They never monitored her internet activity, never took her to see a doctor, NOTHING. Instead, they blame the bullying for everything when they did nothing to stop it.

And natural selection (aka survival of the fittest) is a mechanism that applies to whole species, not a eugenic or social policy. There is no reason why she had to die.
"PHX is Phoenix, PDX is the other city" -777Way
 
smittyone
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RE: Social Media Bullying

Tue Oct 16, 2012 2:02 am

Quoting Maverick623 (Reply 10):
I realize my posts might be caustic and are offending some of you, but sometimes in order to find out what really went wrong (and to work to see that it never happens again), you need to step out of your comfort zones and confront the real issues.

Whatever. Now you're spinning this like you're performing some kind of public service by playing Devil's Advocate, but the bottom line is that you said you were "deeply offended" that this girl's death is being linked to bullying.

Taking other people's potentially erroneous conclusions personally and your apparent desire to see that 'bullying' gets a fair trial in this case don't make any sense to me.
 
ATCtower
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RE: Social Media Bullying

Tue Oct 16, 2012 4:11 am

Poor thing. I heard about this and it just makes me sick. I would have been someone for her. NO ONE deserves to feel this way.

As for the SOB who stalked her, I wouldnt mind hearing he caught an ice pick in the ear.
By reading the above post you waive all rights to be offended. If you do not like what you read, forget it.
 
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DocLightning
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RE: Social Media Bullying

Tue Oct 16, 2012 8:34 pm

As a side-note, I do not of course, ever recommend or condone suicide, so please don't take this post as an instruction manual. But if you have to off yourself, there are few ways to NOT do it.

*Tylenol (acetaminophen/paracetamol) overdose: This is rarely successful. The idea is that an overdose causes liver failure and death. First of all, there are ways to go and then there are ways to go. Liver failure is an AWFUL way to go. It's slow, intensely painful, and it almost always happens in the ICU with all sorts of extreme and invasive heroic medical interventions underway. Furthermore, as soon as the doctors figure out that you have OD'ed on Tylenol, we will make you take n-acetyl cysteine (n-AC), which must be taken by mouth and provides protection against the liver damage. You have to take it every four hours around the clock (six doses per day) for at least 72 hours. Because you're a suicide attempt, you don't get to refuse it because by definition you are not competent to refuse medical care. Refuse it and we will get a bunch of burly police officers to hold you down while we shove a tube down your nose and administer it that way. We'll even tie you down with four-point leather restraints if we need to, and then you can't even scratch your nose. I've tasted n-AC and I'd like you to imagine distilled skunk spray mixed with concentrated essense of liquid fart. Now, multiply that by about 10,000 and that's how nasty it is.

*Drinking bleach: You die in horrible pain as it burns through your stomach and intestines and then proceeds to burn your internal organs. That assumes we don't get you to the hospital first and pump your stomach and then put you through surgery after surgery to try to repair the damage, in which case you could lose part of or all of your stomach and intestines and live with tubes sticking out of your body for the rest of your life.

*Shotgun in the mouth: Unless you are over 6' tall, when you reach down to pull the trigger, your head will go back. When the shotgun goes off in your mouth, the overpressure from the blast will dislodge the barrel from your mouth and blow your face off while often missing your brain entirely. You can Google pictures of the results of such actions on your own. I suggest you do so on an empty stomach and only when you don't need to sleep for the next month.

*Rat poison: you have to eat a lot. Most rat poisons are anticoagulants. Typically, they cause you to have a stroke, or simply to start bleeding out. Except usually you get found before you die and then we save your life... but you are left as a neurological invalid from the stroke for the rest of your life.

Now, I am not going to tell you how to commit suicide properly. But as a physician, I've seen all four of these and I have to tell you, there are things far worse than death and these four methods are a good way to find that out first-hand.
-Doc Lightning-

"The sky calls to us. If we do not destroy ourselves, we will one day venture to the stars."
-Carl Sagan
 
QFA380
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RE: Social Media Bullying

Tue Oct 16, 2012 9:37 pm

I have a feeling we're not seeing the whole story here. The media is framing it as 'she made some mistakes, society shamed her for it and forced her to kill herself, ipso facto society is bad and needs to be reformed'. I know plenty of teenage girls just like this who make a constant stream of 'one off mistakes' and then blame everyone else for it. These girls become phenomenally reliant upon a feedback loop of approval from Facebook and others, and when (not if) the mob mobilises against them, they've become dependant upon the receiving their daily shot of 'likes' and can't handle the inverse.

Parents are allowing these self absorbed people to grow up who cannot handle any social consequences of their own screw ups and inevitably some of those who have no family to fall back on will turn to drastic measures like suicide. Its a shame she can't see all the likes she's getting now...

This is more complicated and more distasteful than simple bullying, I would bet my bottom dollar that nearly every single person in western society feels they were bullied at some stage of their life and I don't see hordes of people killing themselves.

Quoting Maverick623 (Reply 18):
"Social media" is a fad marketing term that ultimately doesn't mean anything.

Drives me nuts...When newspapers are saying 'social media says that xyz is doing this wrong', as if social media is a living thing. It's merely a high soapbox from which individuals can proclaim their views to the world, just like all other media.

Quoting ATCtower (Reply 20):
I would have been someone for her.

While you probably have good intentions, just like these people who bullied, it's easier to say things from behind a computer. There were probably people in her life who would say the same thing however when push comes to shove, nearly everyone will avoid getting ridiculed themselves in a futile attempt to stand up for someone else. The mob can't really be tamed.
 
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DeltaMD90
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RE: Social Media Bullying

Tue Oct 16, 2012 9:51 pm

Quoting QFA380 (Reply 22):
I have a feeling we're not seeing the whole story here.

Well the level of dedication of the "stalkers" is not really emphasized. It doesn't happen to often but when they find a target, the post all the information they can on a forum and a bunch of people will do various acts. It's pretty relentless actually, very terrible. From what I heard, they sent her pictures to all her family and friends, and they even sent them to people at her new school. Without completely changing one's identity, you really can't shake these people off. They thrive on sadness and actually drive people to suicide, and then troll the memorial pages. I saw her original memorial page before FB took it down and it got replaced with a heavily moderated page
Ironically I have never flown a Delta MD-90 :)
 
seb146
Posts: 13925
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RE: Social Media Bullying

Wed Oct 17, 2012 3:06 am

Quoting tugger (Reply 14):
See? That's your problem! You're aiming for the wrong target, you just need to change your target audience!
It's a brilliant idea if I do say so myself....

I could pass them on to you  
Quoting Maverick623 (Reply 18):
Maybe we should ask J Edgar Hoover?

I could try the same thing, but I look HORRID in a dress! A kilt, on the other hand....

Quoting DocLightning (Reply 21):
But if you have to off yourself, there are few ways to NOT do it.

Add ibuprofin to that list. I am alergic to ibuprofin. No many of us have psychological effects from that medication. I become very depressed and hear voices. That side effect is very very rare. My father had it too. I wonder if this person had the same reaction? Bullying is never good, but I just wanted to point that out.
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DocLightning
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RE: Social Media Bullying

Wed Oct 17, 2012 4:48 am

Quoting seb146 (Reply 24):
Add ibuprofin to that list.

Actually, most people can down a Costco bottle of ibuprofen and not suffer much more than an upset stomach.
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mariner
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RE: Social Media Bullying

Wed Oct 17, 2012 5:00 am

Quoting QFA380 (Reply 22):
While you probably have good intentions, just like these people who bullied, it's easier to say things from behind a computer.

I'm scratching my head trying to work out what the "good intentions" are of those people who bullied.

mariner
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seb146
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RE: Social Media Bullying

Wed Oct 17, 2012 6:39 am

Quoting mariner (Reply 26):
I'm scratching my head trying to work out what the "good intentions" are of those people who bullied.

I can not talk to people. At all. When I say something, the other person takes it all wrong. I am dealing with that now in one of my classes with two different people. They are good people. Problem is: when I say something back, it comes out wrong and stupid. Maybe the same thing happened here?

Quoting DocLightning (Reply 25):
most people can down a Costco bottle of ibuprofen and not suffer much more than an upset stomach.

There are very rare instances when a bottle of ibuprofin will cause severe reactions. When I last checked, it was 1:500,000. Very rare, but it happens. One very tolerated med caused me to break out into hives. I was one of only a few thousand. It happens, but not very often.
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mariner
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RE: Social Media Bullying

Wed Oct 17, 2012 7:01 am

Quoting seb146 (Reply 27):
I can not talk to people. At all. When I say something, the other person takes it all wrong. I am dealing with that now in one of my classes with two different people. They are good people. Problem is: when I say something back, it comes out wrong and stupid. Maybe the same thing happened here?

I think you can talk - or write - just fine. I understand what you say.

But I'm not sure why you think I meant you because I thought I had responded to QFA380 in post #22.

mariner
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QFA380
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RE: Social Media Bullying

Wed Oct 17, 2012 2:44 pm

Quoting mariner (Reply 28):
I had responded to QFA380 in post #22.

My apologies, I negated to include the word 'but' and hence my post was a touch ambiguous.

Quoting QFA380 (Reply 22):
While you probably have good intentions,but just like these people who bullied; it's easier to say things from behind a computer.

I was referring to how it is much easier to tend to the extreme, good or bad, when shielded by a computer despite reality being much less clear. I was not at all saying that the people who tormented her had good intentions.
 
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RE: Social Media Bullying

Wed Oct 17, 2012 2:48 pm

Quoting QFA380 (Reply 29):
I was referring to how it is much easier to tend to the extreme, good or bad, when shielded by a computer despite reality being much less clear.

Thus the old joke about how everyone has a Corvett, 6-pack abs and a full head of hair on the internet.
 
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RE: Social Media Bullying

Wed Oct 17, 2012 2:54 pm

Quoting SmittyOne (Reply 30):
Thus the old joke about how everyone has a Corvett, 6-pack abs and a full head of hair on the internet.

Exactly. Just as everyone would shield an apparently slutty 14 year old from the torment of bullies calling her a slut...only on the internet.
 
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DeltaMD90
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RE: Social Media Bullying

Wed Oct 17, 2012 2:56 pm

Quoting QFA380 (Reply 31):
from the torment of bullies calling her a slut

Again, they were sending her nude pictures to her family and friends... a bit more harsh than "calling her a slut" don't you think?
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QFA380
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RE: Social Media Bullying

Wed Oct 17, 2012 3:00 pm

Quoting DeltaMD90 (Reply 32):
Again, they were sending her nude pictures to her family and friends... a bit more harsh than "calling her a slut" don't you think?

Not really. Just a more forceful way of saying it; to both her friends and family, backing it up with some sort of 'proof'. Unfortunately no white knight can hide in the interwebs, attacking incoming FB messages to someone's family.
 
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RE: Social Media Bullying

Wed Oct 17, 2012 3:06 pm

Quoting QFA380 (Reply 33):
Just a more forceful way of saying it

Wow that's the understatement of the year. So you cannot see how upset a 14 year old would be to have pictures of her naked sent to her friends and family? If not I guess we'll have to agree to disagree. I mean I wouldn't hang myself but I can at least see why she did, even if I disagree. I'm not going around turning her into a hero or anything but sheesh, have some empathy
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Maverick623
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RE: Social Media Bullying

Wed Oct 17, 2012 4:49 pm

Quoting SmittyOne (Reply 19):

Whatever. Now you're spinning this

I have spun nothing.
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Aesma
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RE: Social Media Bullying

Wed Oct 17, 2012 5:44 pm

Well, I can understand the original mistake, a lot of girls far older do that stupid thing (I have in fact made some screen captures of girls breasts they were showing me on webcam, although I keep them for myself), but I can't understand how the bullying was handled, starting with why was she still on facebook ? Some will argue that she wasn't to blame and shouldn't bare the consequences, and I'm not blaming her, but if you're ready to move, change schools, then backing off social media seems appropriate.
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smittyone
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RE: Social Media Bullying

Wed Oct 17, 2012 9:37 pm

Quoting QFA380 (Reply 31):
Exactly. Just as everyone would shield an apparently slutty 14 year old from the torment of bullies calling her a slut...only on the internet.
Quoting QFA380 (Reply 33):
Not really. Just a more forceful way of saying it; to both her friends and family, backing it up with some sort of 'proof'. Unfortunately no white knight can hide in the interwebs, attacking incoming FB messages to someone's family.

You are absolutely correct that I would shield a child from these things. I can't fathom needing to explain to you why a man would do that.

Quoting Maverick623 (Reply 35):
I have spun nothing.

Sorry, the Jedi mind trick doesn't work on me. But feel free to keep trying to tell us that calling a 14 year old girl a 'slut' or worse and emailing around naked pictures of her is OK because she's got mental problems and her parents suck.
 
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DocLightning
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RE: Social Media Bullying

Wed Oct 17, 2012 10:31 pm

Quoting seb146 (Reply 27):
There are very rare instances when a bottle of ibuprofin will cause severe reactions. When I last checked, it was 1:500,000. Very rare, but it happens. One very tolerated med caused me to break out into hives. I was one of only a few thousand. It happens, but not very often.

Hence my choice of the word "most."  
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mariner
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RE: Social Media Bullying

Thu Oct 18, 2012 1:09 am

Quoting QFA380 (Reply 31):
Just as everyone would shield an apparently slutty 14 year old from the torment of bullies calling her a slut...only on the internet.

I'm not sure what's wrong with being a "slut" - as you so graciously describe her. I've known some terrific "sluts."

And I've been called a "faggot" (and much worse) in my time, as if it were news to me, or as if I cared.

Quoting QFA380 (Reply 33):
Just a more forceful way of saying it; to both her friends and family, backing it up with some sort of 'proof'.

Why would anyone would do that, except to hurt or to harm?

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pvjin
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RE: Social Media Bullying

Thu Oct 18, 2012 7:38 am

Yeah sad case, obviously this girl had some existing mental problems and probably low self-esteem that made her to do those things that then caused people to bully her, wouldn't say that she was a slut and besides I who is anybody to judge ones sexual behavior as long as it includes nothing illegal? Probably lack of parenting too, seems like she didn't get much support from them.

This again reminded me from what kind of idiots and immature people internet is full of.
"Optimism is the madness of insisting that all is well when we are miserable." - Voltaire
 
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DarkSnowyNight
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RE: Social Media Bullying

Thu Oct 18, 2012 8:32 am

Quoting DocLightning (Reply 21):
*Shotgun in the mouth: Unless you are over 6' tall, when you reach down to pull the trigger, your head will go back. When the shotgun goes off in your mouth, the overpressure from the blast will dislodge the barrel from your mouth and blow your face off while often missing your brain entirely. You can Google pictures of the results of such actions on your own. I suggest you do so on an empty stomach and only when you don't need to sleep for the next month.

Interesting that you bring that one. I had a feeling about the compression thing (as anyone who's ever worked on a diesel engine could have figured). But what has always intrigued me (well, DarkSnowyNight's DarkSnowySide anyway) is the actual efficacy of headshots. According to Hollywood, they're universally fatal, which is probably expediant as a plot device. But then, this is the same Hollywood that also seems to believe that post rigormortal human carcases can overrun the planet, but still somehow need to 'feed' on anything, but I digress.

It's been my understanding that pretty much anything that doesn't

A. remove the brain entirely

or

B. seperate the brain from the stem

is anything but a surefire kill. How does that compare with your experience?

Quoting mariner (Reply 39):
I'm not sure what's wrong with being a "slut" - as you so graciously describe her. I've known some terrific "sluts."

The problem is that (at least here in the states) we really haven't evolved away from our own puritanical tendencies yet enough to differentiate between 'slut' & 'bad person.' I'm not sure anymore than anyone else if the world needs sluts or not, but that hardly makes them bad people or worthy of shame. It will be nice when we can get past all that and stop using the notion of being a 'slut' as a tool for unwarranted cruelty and/or assholery.

Please note that the above is not intended to be interpreted as a belief that this child was actually a slut. I just think it's pathetic that people in this age still use it as a basis for being judgemental shits.
Be A Perfectionst, You're Nothing If You're Just Another; Something Material, This Isn't Personal...
 
kiwiinoz
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RE: Social Media Bullying

Thu Oct 18, 2012 9:43 am

"Slut" is an ugly term used by misogynist dinosaurs. That a girl/women can enjoy the same level of sexual independance and, (if she likes) promiscuity as most men aspire to should not reflect negatively on her. Of course there are sexual health concerns, but there is no evidence in this case that this was not being managed.

And it certainly does not warrant what heppened to this girl.
 
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mariner
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RE: Social Media Bullying

Thu Oct 18, 2012 10:17 am

Quoting Darksnowynight (Reply 41):
It will be nice when we can get past all that and stop using the notion of being a 'slut' as a tool for unwarranted cruelty and/or assholery.

I agree, but it runs very deep, not just in the US or the west. It is the concept of woman as the foul temptress who causes (noble) man to fall from grace.

In the Middle East it is the thinking behind female circumcision and of "honour" killings.

This young woman did it with another woman's fella? Why dump on her, could he not have said no, could he not control himself?

Quoting Darksnowynight (Reply 41):
It will be nice when we can get past all that and stop using the notion of being a 'slut' as a tool for unwarranted cruelty and/or assholery.

What I see is a young woman of extremely low self esteem and minimal social skills, desperately wanting attention, to please, to fit in - and clearly "persuadable" by men that giving 'em what they want will achieve that.

What puzzles me is that no internet observer sought to reach to help. The mob at the guillotine?

I don't have any answers. All I know is that anyone can only insult me if I choose to be insulted, if I give credence to the bully.

I learned that very young - but I learned it in a very hard school.

mariner
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ATCtower
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RE: Social Media Bullying

Fri Oct 19, 2012 2:45 am

Quoting DocLightning (Reply 21):
As a side-note, I do not of course, ever recommend or condone suicide, so please don't take this post as an instruction manual. But if you have to off yourself, there are few ways to NOT do it.


Wow. Talk about a way to be an elitist jerk (and I support assisted suicide)! Not that I ever had much respect for you anyway but if Im not mistaken 'do no harm' is is fundamental principle of the profession you claim to hold.

Quoting QFA380 (Reply 22):
While you probably have good intentions, just like these people who bullied, it's easier to say things from behind a computer. There were probably people in her life who would say the same thing however when push comes to shove, nearly everyone will avoid getting ridiculed themselves in a futile attempt to stand up for someone else. The mob can't really be tamed.

Definitely sorry that is the type of person YOU are. YOU do not represent good people, and while you may have jumped at the gun to beat her up, there are plenty of us who have known the torments of bullies in our time and would have happily been there for her even in the face of adversity (you).

Quoting QFA380 (Reply 31):
Exactly. Just as everyone would shield an apparently slutty 14 year old from the torment of bullies calling her a slut...only on the internet.

So a girl showing her boobs when she is a kid is slutty? You must be advocating for stalking and hoping for the suicide of every girl who has been so unpure to show her boobs out of wedlock. The girl was not a slut for showing her boobs once, she made a mistake. Glad you/your kids never have and never will.

Quoting mariner (Reply 39):
I'm not sure what's wrong with being a "slut" - as you so graciously describe her. I've known some terrific "sluts."

And I've been called a "faggot" (and much worse) in my time, as if it were news to me, or as if I cared.

Honestly didnt know that one about you mariner but thats exactly it. You have internet idiots who NEED to judge a kid by one action they made and jump the gun to punish, ridicule, and bully.

While I used to know the casename, an extensive search hasnt turned it up but there was an 11 year old boy in the midwest in early 2000's who was ticketed for urinating in a bush in the park and was given a ticket for it. When he showed up to family court the judge found that because he was within 500' of a high school that he was a sexual deviant, found him guilty of exposing himself to children, and forced him to register as a sex offender for life. Thankfully the ruling was reviewed in appeals court and overturned, but kids make mistakes! To hold this girl accountable for showing her boobs to a guy she liked is absurd.

If you want a real punishment, I say deliver it on the SOB who STALKED her, HARASSED her, INTIMIDATED her, and DISTRIBUTED child pornography spreading the picture.

My $.03
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PHX787
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RE: Social Media Bullying

Fri Oct 19, 2012 7:22 am

Quoting ATCtower (Reply 44):
If you want a real punishment, I say deliver it on the SOB who STALKED her, HARASSED her, INTIMIDATED her, and DISTRIBUTED child pornography spreading the picture.

I believe there have been charges pending, but they can only go so far to the harassment, stalking, and child porn related charges.

The problem is there aren't laws in the US that charge someone directly for the suicide of someone. I believe those laws should remain because remember, suicide of someone who is not completely unstable is still a choice.

Correct me if I'm wrong though, I thought this was the case at least.
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WrenchBender
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RE: Social Media Bullying

Fri Oct 19, 2012 2:53 pm

Quoting PHX787 (Reply 45):
The problem is there aren't laws in the US that charge someone directly for the suicide of someone. I believe those laws should remain because remember, suicide of someone who is not completely unstable is still a choice.

But there are in Canada where she was from. From the applicable section of the Canadian Criminal Code
'Suicide
Counselling or aiding suicide
241 Every one who
(a) counsels a person to commit suicide, or
(b) aids or abets a person to commit suicide,
whether suicide ensues or not, is guilty of an indictable
offence and liable to imprisonment for a term not exceeding
fourteen years.'
I hope they start laying some charges on the internet loud mouths who where counselling Ms Todd to kill herself.

WrenchBender
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Aesma
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RE: Social Media Bullying

Fri Oct 19, 2012 3:11 pm

Quoting ATCtower (Reply 44):
While I used to know the casename, an extensive search hasnt turned it up but there was an 11 year old boy in the midwest in early 2000's who was ticketed for urinating in a bush in the park and was given a ticket for it. When he showed up to family court the judge found that because he was within 500' of a high school that he was a sexual deviant, found him guilty of exposing himself to children, and forced him to register as a sex offender for life. Thankfully the ruling was reviewed in appeals court and overturned, but kids make mistakes!

I read a similar story but the guy was 18 and instead of waiting for the courts to come to their senses he emigrated to Europe.
New Technology is the name we give to stuff that doesn't work yet. Douglas Adams
 
PHX787
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RE: Social Media Bullying

Fri Oct 19, 2012 5:32 pm

Quoting WrenchBender (Reply 46):
I hope they start laying some charges on the internet loud mouths who where counselling Ms Todd to kill herself.

This charge you mentioned above should therefore be levied against that stalker.
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WrenchBender
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RE: Social Media Bullying

Fri Oct 19, 2012 6:44 pm

Quoting PHX787 (Reply 48):
This charge you mentioned above should therefore be levied against that stalker.

Only if he encouraged her suicide, which at this point I believe he did not do. He may be the cause of a lot of grief and should be charged with disseminating child pornography. It's the dog pile "Let's jump on the bandwagon at someones expense, by telling them to kill themselves" that this law should be used on.
Even after her death there where hundreds of idiots thinking they could carry on belittling her, hiding behind the anonymity of the 'net. It cost 1 person their job and hackers/citizens have been hunting down posters info and handing it over to the RCMP. These low-lifes who hide their identities and post CRAP about someone are the lowest form of pond scum out there, they cannot handle face to face confrontation/discussion.

WrenchBender

http://www.ottawacitizen.com/news/Am...lgary+complaint/7400280/story.html
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