varigb707
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Wisconsin Mall Shooting. Really, Another Shoot Out

Sun Oct 21, 2012 6:05 pm

Boy what's happening out there. This is getting out control. Shooting at mall or an irrational naked woman in FLA.
It's got to be the end. Anyway, here's more on the shooting :
http://news.yahoo.com/deputies-scene...ting-wisconsin-mall-174433027.html
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Jetsgo
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RE: Wisconsin Mall Shooting. Really, Another Shoot Out

Sun Oct 21, 2012 6:22 pm

Boy, those strict gun laws in WI sure prevailed here.  
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Max Q
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RE: Wisconsin Mall Shooting. Really, Another Shoot Out

Sun Oct 21, 2012 11:43 pm

Yeah,


Guns are great aren't they, there's just no issue here, as long as we keep pretending there isn't..


You gun nuts are the problem.
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DeltaMD90
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RE: Wisconsin Mall Shooting. Really, Another Shoot Out

Sun Oct 21, 2012 11:48 pm

Quoting Max Q (Reply 5):
You gun nuts are the problem.

I agree we do have a problem... stricter stances towards gun ownership to questionable individuals needs to be addressed. We can't pretend that guns are the only factor though... if we completely outlawed guns we'd still have gun violence.

Personally, I think a big overlooked factor is the mentality many Americans have of killing those who "don't respect you." It's a really different world than ours
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ltbewr
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RE: Wisconsin Mall Shooting. Really, Another Shoot Out

Mon Oct 22, 2012 1:06 am

Once again a mentally/psychologically ill person gets access to a gun and kills and shoots up a bunch of people than kills themselves. I wish such persons had others around them to get them into institutional care or just kill themselves first rather than kill others.

Once again we will see another round of pro and anti-gun arguments, how we have plenty of law or not enough, of how society is messed up as to guns or how the 2nd Amendment trumps the violence it allows, too many politicians who won't show some guts and take on the NRA or to improve the situations, including improved economic conditions for all, improved physical and mental health care access as well as proper legal processes to try to really reduce the too many of these multiple victim shooting events.
 
cmf
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RE: Wisconsin Mall Shooting. Really, Another Shoot Out

Mon Oct 22, 2012 2:37 am

Quoting DeltaMD90 (Reply 5):
if we completely outlawed guns we'd still have gun violence.

Nor will having every person walking armed at all times stop gun violence.

Quoting DeltaMD90 (Reply 5):
Personally, I think a big overlooked factor is the mentality many Americans have of killing those who "don't respect you." It's a really different world than ours

I started a thread about the need to change mentality but it was closed because the moderators claimed - there is no solution.....
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DeltaMD90
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RE: Wisconsin Mall Shooting. Really, Another Shoot Out

Mon Oct 22, 2012 2:43 am

Quoting cmf (Reply 7):
Quoting DeltaMD90 (Reply 5):
if we completely outlawed guns we'd still have gun violence.

Nor will having every person walking armed at all times stop gun violence.

Because I advocated or claimed this?    
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Superfly
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RE: Wisconsin Mall Shooting. Really, Another Shoot Out

Mon Oct 22, 2012 3:22 am

Quoting varigb707 (Thread starter):
Shooting at mall or an irrational naked woman in FLA.

What is with all of these recent shootings in swing states?
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kingairta
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RE: Wisconsin Mall Shooting. Really, Another Shoot Out

Mon Oct 22, 2012 3:36 am

Shooting was at a spa across the street from a mall. Way to over sensationalize a news report.
 
Ken777
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RE: Wisconsin Mall Shooting. Really, Another Shoot Out

Mon Oct 22, 2012 3:56 am

Oklahoma starts open carry on Nov 1st.

Fortunately there are restrictions where you can't carry - like in a business that has a no guns policy posted.

Might be interesting to see a guy have to put his gun in the glove box of his (or her) car every time they want to walk into one of the many places where the guns are banned.

As for the WI shooting, it's just another long line of shootings in the US - nothing new. All you can hope for is that the cops or the shooter puts one in his head. Save us the costs of a trial and incarceration.
 
cmf
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RE: Wisconsin Mall Shooting. Really, Another Shoot Out

Mon Oct 22, 2012 3:56 am

Quoting DeltaMD90 (Reply 8):
Because I advocated or claimed this?

Because I wanted to cover the the part you didn't cover.
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cmf
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RE: Wisconsin Mall Shooting. Really, Another Shoot Out

Mon Oct 22, 2012 4:00 am

Quoting Ken777 (Reply 11):
Might be interesting to see a guy have to put his gun in the glove box of his (or her) car every time they want to walk into one of the many places where the guns are banned.

Glove box should not be considered safe storage.
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rfields5421
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RE: Wisconsin Mall Shooting. Really, Another Shoot Out

Mon Oct 22, 2012 4:05 am

Looking at the news 10 hours after the first post.

1) It wasn't in the mall

2) It was a family violence crime. The shooter slashed his wife's car tires at that location 17 days ago. Three days ago, a restraining order was issued against him. Police were looking for him, and expected him to react violently.

3) He set a fire, apparently trying to make identification more difficult. The sprinkler system kept the fire small.

4) Police do not yet know if one of the three dead shooting victims was the wife.
 
TheCommodore
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RE: Wisconsin Mall Shooting. Really, Another Shoot Out

Mon Oct 22, 2012 6:06 am

Quoting Ken777 (Reply 10):
Might be interesting to see a guy have to put his gun in the glove box of his (or her) car every time they want to walk into one of the many places where the guns are banned.

Is that allowed ?

Don't weapons have to be stored and locked away in a secure place if not being used ?

I mean, I would have thought, that a vehicle "Glove Box" is not, a secure place. Especially when you think about all the cars that get stolen every day, and then, for the crims to find a gun in the Glove Box... Bingo !
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fr8mech
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RE: Wisconsin Mall Shooting. Really, Another Shoot Out

Mon Oct 22, 2012 2:42 pm

Quoting Ken777 (Reply 10):
Might be interesting to see a guy have to put his gun in the glove box of his (or her) car every time they want to walk into one of the many places where the guns are banned.

No big deal. I do it all the time. Comes off my belt and goes into the center console.

Quoting cmf (Reply 12):
Glove box should not be considered safe storage

As secure storage as any car, including police cars, can be. So no, it's not secure storage, but, that's what you're stuck with. Most of us will respect a business owner's request that we don't carry a firearm into their business.

So, you either trespass (which would be the charge if you're 'found out' and you refuse to leave) or leave the firearm in the car.

I never leave the firearm in the car when I'm done for the day.

Quoting TheCommodore (Reply 14):
Is that allowed ?

Yes, in fact, up until this year, you could only store a handgun in your glove box (and it not deemed to be concealed) in the state of Kentucky. The law was changed to include any manufacturer installed storage compartment.
When seconds count...the police are minutes away.
 
aloges
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RE: Wisconsin Mall Shooting. Really, Another Shoot Out

Mon Oct 22, 2012 2:58 pm

There are guns stored, quite legally, in glove boxes, bedside cabinets, desk drawers and who knows where else... and some people pretend that legal gun ownership is no problem at all.   
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cmf
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RE: Wisconsin Mall Shooting. Really, Another Shoot Out

Mon Oct 22, 2012 3:52 pm

Quoting fr8mech (Reply 15):
So, you either trespass (which would be the charge if you're 'found out' and you refuse to leave) or leave the firearm in the car.

Or use a better alternative.
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Newark727
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RE: Wisconsin Mall Shooting. Really, Another Shoot Out

Mon Oct 22, 2012 7:11 pm

If you're going to put a gun in the glove compartment, I'd prefer if the compartment in question can lock; I know some cars do this and others don't. While if the entire car gets stolen it's still a problem, some auto break-ins are just smash-and-grab type deals with no key involved (happened to my mom's purse left in a car) so it might at least make those scenarios at least less likely to result in a loose firearm.
 
fr8mech
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RE: Wisconsin Mall Shooting. Really, Another Shoot Out

Mon Oct 22, 2012 7:15 pm

Quoting cmf (Reply 17):
Or use a better alternative

Well, there is another alternative, but I choose to exercise my right. We all remember choice, right?

Of course, there is also another alternative: not to do business with a business that doesn't want a legally carried firearm on its premises. But, that gets cumbersome, and is really not a problem here. I haven't been in too many buildings that have the sign posted.

As for government buildings: I try to stay away from them and do whatever business I need to do with them online or via snail mail. No big deal.
When seconds count...the police are minutes away.
 
cmf
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RE: Wisconsin Mall Shooting. Really, Another Shoot Out

Mon Oct 22, 2012 7:53 pm

Quoting fr8mech (Reply 20):
Well, there is another alternative

This has nothing to do with your rights. It has everything to do with your responsibilities. A glove compartment isn't responsible storage. Find a responsible solution. It may be that you need to find someone you trust to keep an eye on it.
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Silver1SWA
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RE: Wisconsin Mall Shooting. Really, Another Shoot Out

Mon Oct 22, 2012 8:41 pm

Quoting KingairTA (Reply 8):
Shooting was at a spa across the street from a mall. Way to over sensationalize a news report.


Every initial report I saw online said "mass casualties in shooting at Wisconsin mall."
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kingairta
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RE: Wisconsin Mall Shooting. Really, Another Shoot Out

Tue Oct 23, 2012 2:43 am

Like I said.

Headlines finagled to make the story more then it is. Shooting at spa still stirs fear but to make it sound like the theater shooting is plain bad journalism.
 
fr8mech
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RE: Wisconsin Mall Shooting. Really, Another Shoot Out

Tue Oct 23, 2012 2:53 am

Quoting cmf (Reply 19):
Find a responsible solution.

Ah, but it's no different than how police store their firearms when they are out of their vehicles, is it? Maybe not the glove box, but whether it's in the glove box or the trunk, once you have access to the interior...
When seconds count...the police are minutes away.
 
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DeltaMD90
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RE: Wisconsin Mall Shooting. Really, Another Shoot Out

Tue Oct 23, 2012 3:18 am

Quoting fr8mech (Reply 22):
Ah, but it's no different than how police store their firearms when they are out of their vehicles, is it? Maybe not the glove box, but whether it's in the glove box or the trunk, once you have access to the interior...

To be fair, their weapon racks are very strong, make it impossible to shoot while in the rack, and you pretty much have to destroy the weapon to get the thing off
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fr8mech
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RE: Wisconsin Mall Shooting. Really, Another Shoot Out

Tue Oct 23, 2012 4:36 am

Quoting DeltaMD90 (Reply 23):
To be fair, their weapon racks are very strong, make it impossible to shoot while in the rack, and you pretty much have to destroy the weapon to get the thing off

Not talking about the ones in the rack. I've seen inside of enough marked and unmarked units to know that officers keep other firearms in their vehicles. Yes, the "issue" ones may be in a rack, but the officers I know carry additional with them and sometimes, those additional are stored in the trunk in a tactical bag or some such thing.

My point is: if a criminal wants a gun, he would have a much better chance of getting one by hitting a parked police car than a random car on the street.

Again, the interior of a car is not ideal, but, I absolutely respect the right of a property owner to ask that I not bring a firearm onto his property. I'm going to carry, therefore, I have to do one of two things: store the firearm in the vehicle or not patronize the business. I don't do boycotts.
When seconds count...the police are minutes away.
 
cmf
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RE: Wisconsin Mall Shooting. Really, Another Shoot Out

Tue Oct 23, 2012 8:45 am

Quoting fr8mech (Reply 22):
Ah, but it's no different than how police store their firearms when they are out of their vehicles, is it?

As stated above, they have gun racks. If they bring additional weapons and store them "in the glove box" then they too are irresponsible.

Quoting fr8mech (Reply 24):
I have to do one of two things

You should do one of the "third" options, e.g. install proper storage or have someone stay in the car.
Don’t repeat earlier generations mistakes. Learn history for a better future.
 
fr8mech
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RE: Wisconsin Mall Shooting. Really, Another Shoot Out

Tue Oct 23, 2012 4:44 pm

Quoting cmf (Reply 25):
You should do one of the "third" options, e.g. install proper storage

I've actually considered installing a box, but decided that it may be more risky. Right now, I can transfer the firearm from my belt (with holster) to the console with little to no obvious effort. If I installed a lockbox, either under the seat or in the back (vehicle has no trunk), I may now draw attention to myself as I manipulate the lock and place "something" in secure storage. It may attract unwanted attention.

Everything in life is a trade-off.
When seconds count...the police are minutes away.

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