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pu
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Why did Obama Win?

Wed Nov 07, 2012 4:57 am

It seems to me the ECONOMY was not the decisive issue as commonly believed: all the polls I saw said Romney was trusted more on economics.

Two things stick out to me about what Republicans may have did wrong:

(1) TACTICALLY, not facing reality and instead arguing the polls were flawed when they could have made a game-changing campaign adjustment, and,

(2) STRATEGICALLY, arguing for the importance of the Benghazi attack, repudiating Obamacare and increasing defense spending and other ideas which aren't big vote-getting ideas for swing moderate voters, but appeal to Republicans

Thoughts?


I really hope America gets its fiscal house in order and do wish the great American people a successful future!


Pu
 
PHX787
Posts: 7881
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Why did Obama Win?

Wed Nov 07, 2012 5:03 am

Quoting pu (Thread starter):
(1) TACTICALLY, not facing reality and instead arguing the polls were flawed when they could have made a game-changing campaign adjustment, and,

Tactically- Focusing on pushing Obama in a wall where Obama has failed, such as in Nevada and Ohio, where populations are still out of work in large numbers,

Quoting pu (Thread starter):
(2) STRATEGICALLY, arguing for the importance of the Benghazi attack, repudiating Obamacare and increasing defense spending and other ideas which aren't big vote-getting ideas for swing moderate voters, but appeal to Republicans

EXACTLY. In all seriousness, Romney was NOT persuasive enough.
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mhkansan
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Why did Obama Win?

Wed Nov 07, 2012 5:12 am

Quoting PHX787 (Reply 1):
EXACTLY. In all seriousness, Romney was NOT persuasive enough.

It may have helped if he had actually had a platform both the candidate and the running mate could support. Romney/Ryan were both supporting a RNC platform that neither one of them personally believed them, and would say anything to any audience to get elected.

If this election proved anything, it's that deceit can't get you elected to the highest office of the land. Obama may not have had the greatest first term, but at least he had something people could sympathize with and a record to prove it. Romney had a record but he didn't endorse it as his own!

Case in point: Romneycare.

I'm personally impressed so many thought this would be a close election. It really shouldn't have been. Why support a guy who can't remember what's on his website?
 
BMI727
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Why did Obama Win?

Wed Nov 07, 2012 5:15 am

Quoting pu (Thread starter):
Two things stick out to me about what Republicans may have did wrong:

They had the wrong guy. Obama didn't win as much as Romney lost.

The real issue is where do they go from here. I think they have two years to find their man, and launch a long campaign. I'd pick Huntsman as my early favorite, if he's up to it, but they need a candidate and fast. Everybody knew from about 2004 on that Obama was going to be the guy in 2008, with even Hillary being only a brief, fringe contender. And the guy has to be strong economically, and moderate on everything else. The economy is where the Republicans had a chance to win this time and where they'll have a chance to win next time.

As they look for their man and after they find him, they need to launch an all out war. The Republicans need to grow the teeth that up until now only the Tea Party has had and blast the economic failures of the Democrats and general idiocy of the Tea Party. It's at four years and counting, so there's plenty there. They need to compile a resume of economic failure.

And, above all, stop listening to the Tea Partiers. They aren't going anywhere, so there's no reason to pander to them or be scared of them. Republicans need to drop social issues entirely and focus on their strength, which is the economy.

The economic troubles left the Republicans a hanging curveball just begging to get whacked. But they swung and missed and are now faced with four years of damage control, during which time they should spend as much time as possible on the offensive.
Why do Aerospace Engineering students have to turn things in on time?
 
JakeOrion
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Why did Obama Win?

Wed Nov 07, 2012 5:15 am

Romney did not give clear cut answers nor details on his policies; too focused on bashing the President while refusing to acknowledge this has been a disaster in the making over several Presidencies; too focused on social issues; picked by stupid establishment Republicans after their own greed and power rather than addressing the wounds America.

Romney was a DOA as soon as the establishment picked him. Never wanted to vote for him, as I knew it was not going to do any good.
Every problem has a simple solution; finding the simple solution is the difficult problem.
 
flymia
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Why did Obama Win?

Wed Nov 07, 2012 5:21 am

Why Obama won. You want the real reason?

Hispanic Vote, Gender Gap.
That is all, that is the reason. This country is changing demographically if the Miitt who ran for govenours could get through the GOP primary he would have won this election. The hard right of the GOP is what needs to change.
"It was just four of us on the flight deck, trying to do our job" (Captain Al Haynes)
 
AeroWesty
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Why did Obama Win?

Wed Nov 07, 2012 5:37 am

Quoting flymia (Reply 5):
Hispanic Vote, Gender Gap.

I'd add a highly sophisticated "get out the vote" program in the most strategic areas. If anything, the Obama campaign knew where their voters were, and got them to the polls.
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GDB
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Why did Obama Win?

Wed Nov 07, 2012 5:47 am

The news is saying that women, younger women, younger single ones especially, really turned out to vote.
If so, will the GOP let up on this obsession with not just female reproductive rights, but from some of them, even contraception?
Easy to say, harder to convince enough of their base?

Seems odd when the economy is seen to be THE issue of course but could this biggest of all the 'culture wars' just been enough?

Then there has been the attitude towards the growing Hispanic population from some of the GOP, quite apart from the demographics involved, there is a pretty solid law in democracies everywhere, if a party gives the impression it does not like or approve of parts of a population, they won't win.
Because all those minorities can add up.

[Edited 2012-11-06 21:51:43]
 
flyingturtle
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Why did Obama Win?

Wed Nov 07, 2012 5:48 am

He got the unconditional support of 47% of the Americans. That's why, dear gentlemen and gentlewomen. 


David
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PHX787
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Why did Obama Win?

Wed Nov 07, 2012 6:11 am

Quoting AeroWesty (Reply 6):
I'd add a highly sophisticated "get out the vote" program in the most strategic areas. If anything, the Obama campaign knew where their voters were, and got them to the polls.

MANY Ron Paul supporters did NOT vote for Romney. or O.
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kaitak
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Why did Obama Win?

Wed Nov 07, 2012 6:11 am

I think it was an issue of personality at the end of the day; Romney was simply not likeable; Huckabee got it right when he said that Romney looks like the guy who fires you. Obama was by far the more personable, empathatic and likeable of the two.
 
Ken777
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Why did Obama Win?

Wed Nov 07, 2012 6:16 am

If you look at Ohio (and other industrial states) I think the reason is Obama's support for the auto industry and Romney's lack of support. Obama took a lot of heat at the time, but it was the right decision.

As much as opponents trashed ObamaCare the reality is they everyone who has a member of their family with a "pre-existing condition" knows it was a critical reform. Also, anyone who understands that a big chunk of their health insurance premium is to cover those who cannot pay will consider the mandate to be a step forward. Maybe large employers will start putting pressure on all politicians to get the burden of nanny care off of their backs and move it to a tax related to income.

I also believe that Romney's tax plans were too obscure on what the middle class would loose in terms of deductions. Those voters had to vote on a hope for fair treatment. The hard core Republicans did just that, but obviously a lot of independents.

And, in the end, Romney didn't disclose enough of himself and that hurt. The missing years of tax returns hurt. Doesn't matter what the "minimum requirements" are - he was burned.

And the War on Women hurt. Not just Life -v- Choice, but all the weird things, like the vaginal probes and legitimate rape.
 
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DocLightning
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Why did Obama Win?

Wed Nov 07, 2012 6:23 am

Quoting BMI727 (Reply 3):
They had the wrong guy. Obama didn't win as much as Romney lost.

No, you see, that's where you're wrong.

I would have agreed with you if every battleground state hadn't gone to Obama. I might even agree with you if Florida hadn't upheld Obamacare. I might agree with you if 4/4 states hadn't voted for equal rights. The only thing the GOP won tonight was retaining control of the house... and some of the Teapublicans got canned at that. If my own prediction of a 290 vote squeaker had been correct, I'd agree with you. If the GOP had taken the Senate or gained a significant number of seats in the house (it looks like they might have lost a few seats while retaining control). I might agree if the popular vote hadn't gone solidly to Obama (at this time, most of the red states are done reporting, but the Western blue states are just warming up and yet Obama is ahead).

See, the GOP's mistake was that they thought that Americans were stupid enough to fall for their sabotage trick. Boehner said it up front: they were going to sabotage the economy to make Obama lose. That was #1 priority. Not jobs, not economy, but beating Obama. And Americans saw through it.

Tonight was a strong message to the GOP that this isn't going to win them elections. They need to start putting America before the GOP. It was also a strong message to Obama that we like his views. We like his social views and we like his economic policies.

The GOP now has two choices: 1) Continue their current course and put party before country or 2) put America first and start negotiating.

If they choose option (1), they will find that they are rapidly becoming irrelevant and that they will be replaced by the Libertarian party or that another party will replace them. This is an increasingly diverse nation and they need to face it.
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BMI727
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Why did Obama Win?

Wed Nov 07, 2012 6:29 am

Quoting DocLightning (Reply 12):
Not jobs, not economy, but beating Obama. And Americans saw through it.

The joke is probably on Americans, if the plan is four more years of expensive yet largely ineffectual economic measures.

Quoting DocLightning (Reply 12):
If they choose option (1), they will find that they are rapidly becoming irrelevant and that they will be replaced by the Libertarian party or that another party will replace them. This is an increasingly diverse nation and they need to face it.

That won't happen. They just need to 1) stop being scared of the Tea Party and 2) find someone brown for the next election. A vagina would help too, as long as it doesn't belong to Sarah Palin. They need to come out firing on economic issues, forget about social issues, and pander to minorities.
Why do Aerospace Engineering students have to turn things in on time?
 
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Aesma
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Why did Obama Win?

Wed Nov 07, 2012 6:39 am

I'm an optimist so I think that in four years the global economy will be booming ; if the GOP wants to win then, the economy won't be it.
New Technology is the name we give to stuff that doesn't work yet. Douglas Adams
 
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DocLightning
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Why did Obama Win?

Wed Nov 07, 2012 6:44 am

Quoting BMI727 (Reply 13):
The joke is probably on Americans, if the plan is four more years of expensive yet largely ineffectual economic measures.

Over three years of non-stop job growth is not ineffectual. And that's in spite of the GOP, not because of it.

Quoting BMI727 (Reply 13):
They just need to 1) stop being scared of the Tea Party

OMG we agree on something.   

Quoting BMI727 (Reply 13):
2) find someone brown for the next election.

Nope. Not so simple. I guarantee you that the people who voted for Obama with race as a factor weren't going to vote for Herman Cain, either.

Quoting BMI727 (Reply 13):
A vagina would help too, as long as it doesn't belong to Sarah Palin.

The problem is bigger than Palin. There are a lot of GOP women saying outrageous things up to and including opposition to women's suffrage. And that is a very odd thing to hear from a woman politician, I have to say. Again, color and ovaries don't get you elected.

Quoting BMI727 (Reply 13):
They need to come out firing on economic issues, forget about social issues,

If they have a sensible economic plan --which they haven't so far-- and drop the "kick the gays/ban contraception/treat abortion lime murder" thing, they might actually be able to do well.
-Doc Lightning-

"The sky calls to us. If we do not destroy ourselves, we will one day venture to the stars."
-Carl Sagan
 
BMI727
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Why did Obama Win?

Wed Nov 07, 2012 6:44 am

Quoting Aesma (Reply 14):
I'm an optimist so I think that in four years the global economy will be booming ;

If people keep supporting leftist economic policies, I don't think we'll have to worry about that.
Why do Aerospace Engineering students have to turn things in on time?
 
Ken777
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Why did Obama Win?

Wed Nov 07, 2012 6:46 am

Quoting BMI727 (Reply 13):
The joke is probably on Americans, if the plan is four more years of expensive yet largely ineffectual economic measures.

THe GOP needs to start listening to those in the party who see victory in the middle. Built on a stronger middle class, intelligent government programs and moderation. The wild eyed hard right clearly lost today.

Quoting BMI727 (Reply 13):
They just need to 1) stop being scared of the Tea Party

That won't happen for another few elections. Can the Tea Party be bitch slapped out of the halls of power before the 2014 election? Probably not, but it would be a major first step in bringing the GOP back to the White House.

Quoting BMI727 (Reply 13):
and 2) find someone brown for the next election.

They don't have to a person of color - any color. But the GOP needs to embrace non-whites as strongly as the Democrats. I believe that will take a few more election failures and a lot more old grey men with a $2 haircut to leave politics. Fortunately there is an increasing minority of non-whites building to an eventual majority. As we approach that point there will be some in the GOP who will see the need to adjust. Steve Schmit is already talking about that.

So the GOP will adjust, or it will shrink to nothing but a bunch of TPers.
 
stratosphere
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Why did Obama Win?

Wed Nov 07, 2012 6:55 am

Quoting jakeorion (Reply 4):
Romney was a DOA as soon as the establishment picked him. Never wanted to vote for him, as I knew it was not going to do any good.

Exactly!! If the GOP had put up ANYBODY worthwhile Obama would have never won a second term. Myself included my vote was a vote against Obama more than it was a vote for Romney and I haven't voted since 1984. But its not racial. In fact I as a person like Obama over Romney. I just hate Obamas appointments. I despise Eric Holder and Janet Napolitano. Well he won so will be interesting to see how the next 4 years plays out.
 
BMI727
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Why did Obama Win?

Wed Nov 07, 2012 6:58 am

Quoting DocLightning (Reply 15):
Over three years of non-stop job growth is not ineffectual. And that's in spite of the GOP, not because of it.

And yet the economy is still struggling. And the government is planning to cut defense and increase taxes. It hasn't worked, just like it didn't work in the Great Depression.

Quoting DocLightning (Reply 15):
I guarantee you that the people who voted for Obama with race as a factor weren't going to vote for Herman Cain, either.

I think you'd be surprised. Many Latinos are Catholic and many blacks are socially conservative and are only Democrats because they perceive the Republicans to be racist. The right doesn't need to be strong on social issues, just more conservative than the Democrats.

Quoting Ken777 (Reply 17):
They don't have to a person of color - any color.

Actually at this point it would probably work well enough.
Why do Aerospace Engineering students have to turn things in on time?
 
CaliAtenza
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Why did Obama Win?

Wed Nov 07, 2012 7:40 am

Quoting BMI727 (Reply 19):

I fail to see your argument when the statistics clearly show the economy is improving. Yes, maybe slowly, but its headed in the right direction.
 
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pu
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Why did Obama Win?

Wed Nov 07, 2012 7:48 am

Quoting stratosphere (Reply 18):

Exactly!! If the GOP had put up ANYBODY worthwhile Obama would have never won a second term.

I don't think so. None of the other GOP early entrants would have done better, IMO , and several would have done a lot worse, especially Rick Perry.

Romney was a strong candidate for Repbulicans. He is a smart guy, well spoken. Who wouldn't want him to manage their investments? I think its the Republican platform that is failing.

With the economy in slow gear and the incumbent STILL wins, even though Romney clearly has a different economic agenda, it seems to me the Democrats in a normal economy have nothing to worry about....because even in an abnormal economy like this they're strong enough to win.

I bet a mere 1 percentage point improvement in unemployment would have made Obama unbeatable...the demographics are now squarely in favour of the Democrats, even in weak economies.


Pu
 
BMI727
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Why did Obama Win?

Wed Nov 07, 2012 7:53 am

Quoting caliatenza (Reply 20):
Yes, maybe slowly, but its headed in the right direction.

The growth is barely keeping up with what's needed to keep unemployment from growing, if that. And growth based on stimulus goes away when the stimulus does. That's why the economy under Clinton was that good: it was actual growth, even if there was a bubble on top of it. You could wipe out unemployment by hiring people to make sculptures, but then the sculptures are made, the people have nothing to do anymore, and you have to find tax revenue to pay for the people you paid to make the sculptures.

And a tax hike has never helped growth in the economy. The economy might grow in spite of tax increases, but not because of them. Increasing taxes in a weak economy is just a bad idea.
Why do Aerospace Engineering students have to turn things in on time?
 
CaliAtenza
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Why did Obama Win?

Wed Nov 07, 2012 8:07 am

Quoting BMI727 (Reply 22):

Well Obama said he wants to go with Clinton era economics. I seem to recall that the rich did just fine with the Clinton era tax rates
 
BMI727
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Why did Obama Win?

Wed Nov 07, 2012 8:14 am

Quoting caliatenza (Reply 23):
Well Obama said he wants to go with Clinton era economics.

Who wouldn't? Bring back the tech boom and you can bring back those tax rates. Until then, it's not a wise thing to do.
Why do Aerospace Engineering students have to turn things in on time?
 
MadameConcorde
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Why did Obama Win?

Wed Nov 07, 2012 8:24 am

The average voter knows little or nothing about policies or economics. They are way beyond their mind frame.

What made Obama win is his immense popularity. The huge support he gets from the media, TV ads, newspapers, his Hollywood, show biz and celeb friends who supported him with huge financial donations to his campaign and asked their fans to vote for him and with whom the average voters like to identify with. Also popular measures such as "Obamaphones".

For the average voter Obama projects the image of a hero, a role model, they love him, they love his fashionista wife Michelle, his daughters, the dog, the public images he conveys. They all see him a really nice guy. They did not want to lose that so they voted for him again.

Other than that the average voters don't have any idea of Obama's politics and whatever policies he intends to apply during his second term domestically, even less outside of the US.

  

[Edited 2012-11-07 00:26:54]
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Aesma
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Why did Obama Win?

Wed Nov 07, 2012 8:30 am

Quoting MadameConcorde (Reply 25):
What made Obama win is the huge media support he gets, TV ads, newspapers, his Hollywood, show biz and celeb friends who supported him financially

Romney had plenty of media support. As for the show biz, why do they overwhelmingly support Obama ? There must be a reason, especially considering he intends to tax them more.
New Technology is the name we give to stuff that doesn't work yet. Douglas Adams
 
MadameConcorde
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Why did Obama Win?

Wed Nov 07, 2012 8:51 am

Quoting Aesma (Reply 26):
Romney had plenty of media support.

Obama conveys a highly popular image, especially among women "I am the people's friend".
Romney didn't.

Romney was seen as the rich people's candidate who would have cut down on the "nanny state" therefore unpopular with the masses. A majority of people really like the idea of a "nanny state".

Also most people voted Obama simply because they knew what to expect from him, good or bad. They had no idea what Romney in the White House would be about so they did not want to run the risk and they voted Obama in for a second term.

 

[Edited 2012-11-07 00:52:47]
There was a better way to fly it was called Concorde
 
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DocLightning
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Why did Obama Win?

Wed Nov 07, 2012 9:35 am

Quoting MadameConcorde (Reply 27):
Romney was seen as the rich people's candidate who would have cut down on the "nanny state" therefore unpopular with the masses. A majority of people really like the idea of a "nanny state".

Romney was seen as rich and out of touch. He was seen as downright weird. A lot of people simply don't trust his religion. He seemed to switch positions from day to day to suit the current climate. A man is entitled to disagree with himself, but to claim that this is what he thought all along when clearly he didn't is another thing entirely.

The tax returns can't have helped because they demonstrated with a Romney White House would have been like. Opaque as...well... a black binder full of women.   And then there was his way with words... or lack thereof.

And finally, there was his lack of ideas. He sat up there and blithely claimed that there was nothing wrong with the healthcare system. That the ambulance was socialized medicine. That nobody died because of lack of insurance. That's so silly it's literally insulting. You don't earn votes that way.

That's' why he lost.
-Doc Lightning-

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MD-90
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Why did Obama Win?

Wed Nov 07, 2012 9:57 am

Quoting PHX787 (Reply 9):
MANY Ron Paul supporters did NOT vote for Romney. or O.

I voted for Ron Paul. Although I was tempted to write in Nick Saban's name instead...   
 
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Revelation
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Why did Obama Win?

Wed Nov 07, 2012 10:50 am

Quoting pu (Thread starter):
arguing for the importance of the Benghazi attack

To me, that was waaaay over-done. The GOP spent a lot of time and energy on it and they ended up looking like opportunists instead of leaders.

Quoting pu (Thread starter):
Thoughts?

A lot of people who argued against polls and their methodologies must feel silly today.

It really is about the candidate. Romney won the primary because he spend a lot of his own money and because he was able to appeal to others who had a lot of money. All of this didn't cover up the fact that he had little appeal as a candidate.

Romney's main selling point was that he was a successful businessman, but it's hard to see how one's skills as a vulture capitalist translate well into becoming President. We didn't know anything about Bain Capital before the race, it all came out in dribs and drabs based on things the Dems published, and Romney's side was always on the defensive about it.

Social conservatives can't be happy about an openly gay senator and two states legalizing recreational use of marijuana.

Quoting mhkansan (Reply 2):
Romney/Ryan were both supporting a RNC platform that neither one of them personally believed them, and would say anything to any audience to get elected.

It didn't help Romney to not fully endorse Ryan's plan right after he picked Ryan as a running mate.

Quoting BMI727 (Reply 3):
The Republicans need to grow the teeth that up until now only the Tea Party has had and blast the economic failures of the Democrats and general idiocy of the Tea Party.

I think the country is sick of their belligerence. They need to represent their view constructively, and use their control of the House to reach compromise with the Senate.

Quoting kaitak (Reply 10):
Romney was simply not likeable;

  

As above, it is about the candidate.

Quoting Ken777 (Reply 11):
As much as opponents trashed ObamaCare the reality is they everyone who has a member of their family with a "pre-existing condition" knows it was a critical reform.

One even Romney was trying to find a way to embrace.

Quoting Ken777 (Reply 11):
And the War on Women hurt. Not just Life -v- Choice, but all the weird things, like the vaginal probes and legitimate rape.

Indeed. I think the GOP has a huge problem there. Their "every sperm is sacred" position is just so hard to defend, and when they do, they paint themselves into the "legitimate rape" corner, which then attracts the truly ignorant who feel that "women have a way to shut that thing down".

Quoting DocLightning (Reply 12):
the GOP's mistake was that they thought that Americans were stupid enough to fall for their sabotage trick.

I agree - that tactic was a big part of why much of the country did not want to see the GOP in the White House.

Quoting DocLightning (Reply 12):
We like his social views and we like his economic policies.

Personally, I didn't like the stimulus, and I hope fiscal issues get a lot more attention.

Quoting Ken777 (Reply 17):
The wild eyed hard right clearly lost today.

Perhaps, but that's the source of a lot of the enthusiasm in the GOP.

If it becomes all about the Rockefeller Republicans, how are they going to keep the base happy?

The wild-eyed stuff is what keeps ratings high for Rush and for FOX, and keeps the base engaged.

They want to cling to their guns and their religion, not read stock market reports.
Inspiration, move me brightly! Light the song with sense and color.
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Faced with mysteries dark and vast, statements just seem vain at last.
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Revelation
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Why did Obama Win?

Wed Nov 07, 2012 12:06 pm

Ok, how about some interesting input from journalists?

The strategy that paved a winning path

Obama's team discussed nailing Romney as a flip-flopper, but the data pointed to a stronger hand:

Quote:

“The most striking data we saw early on was on the ‘understands problems of people like me’ question,” said a senior White House official involved in the discussions. “Into the summer, Romney was in the teens in this category.”

The choice was made. The onetime campaign of hope and change soon began a sustained advertising assault that cast Romney as a heartless executive, a man who willingly fires people and is disconnected from how average Americans live their lives — an approach reinforced by Romney’s mistakes along the way.

Even Romney's side admits:

Quote:

Another Romney adviser said: “The group think today is if we were to go back and change one thing, we’d spend more money and more strongly defend Mitt and push back on the ‘rich guy,’ the tax rate issue, the Bain Capital issue. We knew it was coming and we should’ve done more positive ads to get his favorables up.”

But was it about more ads? I kinda doubt it. Romney himself seemed to just not want to stand up to his past, he seemed to prefer to hide it.

Romney himself put his business background into the foreground, and when it was time to speak to it, he just couldn't make the case that leading Bain Capital would make him a good President.
Inspiration, move me brightly! Light the song with sense and color.
Hold away despair, more than this I will not ask.
Faced with mysteries dark and vast, statements just seem vain at last.
Some rise, some fall, some climb, to get to Terrapin!
 
Venus6971
Posts: 1415
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Why did Obama Win?

Wed Nov 07, 2012 12:12 pm

This Benghazi thing has just started and Staten Island , Long Island, Jersey are a mess. Second terms are underwelming. Look for Marco Rubio or Christie dipping their toes in the water in 2016. I would like John Huntsman if he can win a primary and have the hard core conservatives relize that they cant win with a hard liner. The country is changing from a hard working middle class type guys to winey Starbuck sipping guys mad because they can't get a job with their art degree. Mitts 47% will be at over 50% when 2016 comes around. I will be 54 in 2016 and I think the hard working guy does not stand a chance. What next for the poor welfare class in the urban areas, how will they bribed to vote, I know free t shirts and hats for everyone just like Hugo Chavez does. I wonder if small business owners and corporations will still sit on their money, its good that we have split congress now.
I would help you but it is not in the contract
 
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Revelation
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Why did Obama Win?

Wed Nov 07, 2012 12:34 pm

Quoting Venus6971 (Reply 32):
The country is changing from a hard working middle class type guys to winey Starbuck sipping guys mad because they can't get a job with their art degree. Mitts 47% will be at over 50% when 2016 comes around. I will be 54 in 2016 and I think the hard working guy does not stand a chance.

What you seem to be saying is your generation did a piss poor job of raising kids.
Inspiration, move me brightly! Light the song with sense and color.
Hold away despair, more than this I will not ask.
Faced with mysteries dark and vast, statements just seem vain at last.
Some rise, some fall, some climb, to get to Terrapin!
 
Danfearn77
Posts: 557
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Why did Obama Win?

Wed Nov 07, 2012 12:45 pm

Obama is FAR more likeable and I'm very glad he has won. I'm not exaggerating when I say everyone I spoke to about it here in the UK wanted Obama to win. Friends, family, girlfriend, my girlfriends family, my work colleagues, everyone. I didn't come across a single person who wanted Romney as president. Obama is more charismatic, more outgoing and more assertive it seems. I think he'll command more respect abroad than Romney. I also got the impression Romney would have been a little 'trigger happy' with the Middle East had he gotten in?
Eagles may soar high, but weasels dont get sucked into jet engines!
 
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Why did Obama Win?

Wed Nov 07, 2012 1:07 pm

Quoting danfearn77 (Reply 34):
I also got the impression Romney would have been a little 'trigger happy' with the Middle East had he gotten in?

Like most things, Romney wasn't saying what he'd do once he got in, but I had my concerns in this area, especially with all the former GWB people he had advising him.

Obama got a lot of applause when he mentioned the end of wars in his acceptance speech.
Inspiration, move me brightly! Light the song with sense and color.
Hold away despair, more than this I will not ask.
Faced with mysteries dark and vast, statements just seem vain at last.
Some rise, some fall, some climb, to get to Terrapin!
 
csavel
Posts: 1270
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Why did Obama Win?

Wed Nov 07, 2012 1:11 pm

I think Obama won because of the following (a lot of which has already been mentioned)

1) Right wing tea party American Taliban turned off a whole bunch of fiscally conservative voters.
2) The "legitimate rape" comments didn't help either
3) People are actually smart enough to know that a president, ANY president can't wave a magic wand and fix a broken economy. As much as I am nervous about even more debt from the stimulus, I, and most other Americans remember how Clinton had a surplus. Bush decided on large tax breaks when the US is already low taxed compared to oterh industrialized countries PLUS he decided to piss away billions of dollars (not to mention a lot of lives!) in a war of choice in Iraq, and he gave a blank check to military contractors. Both the Dems and Republicans can take credit for lax oversight that led to the bursting of the housing bubble. Frankly, I think it will take a decade until the effects of that are wrung out of the economy - no matter who is president.
To wit, just because Obama hasn't "fixed" the economy, most Americans percieve that the republicans broke it and that nobody can fix it all that easily. The Republicans assumed that American were stupid enough not to remember 2007!
4) continuing on 3, Romeny's combination of tax cuts and increased military spending that would balance the budget was magical thinking. Everyone knew it, even conservative economists.
5) The "etch-a-sketch" thing. Obama care is basically Romneycare writ large. There could be very legitimate reasons why Romney thought the Massachusetts model wouldn't scale up. Romney could have had legit reasons on why he no longer believed in Romneycare. But he never gave a valid reason why. Result: Most people thought he was even more of a mercenary panderer who would say anything to win an election than other politicians. That. Hurt. Him. Deeply.

So tl:dr, most Americans IMHO
Liked Obama
Weren't thrilled with his economic performance, but
Didn't buy Romney's numbers
Didn't trust the Republicans to fix it either
Didn't trust Romney because of his shifting opinions
Obama did a good job of painting Romney as rich and out-of-touch
Tea party and "Independent" attack ads made the Republican brand seem like the KKK brand.

The above was a big one. How many fiscally conservative, libertarian leaning votes did the Republicans lose because of the "birther","You lie!", "doesn't know what it means to be an American", "legitimate rape", "A secret Muslim", "where's the birth certificate" stuff? In my immediate family, I know four. Four lost votes that the Republicans could've had. Note that gay marriage passed in two, probably 3 states, and a lot of the more extreme republican house candidates got their asses handed to them. (Even Michelle Bachman won in a squeaker, and who knows, once all the ballots are counted it could turn the other way.)

Message to the Repubs, throw out the American Taliban from the party entirely, fight for freedom for your bedrooms, wombs, and marriages like you say you fight for your economic freedom. Then we can talk.
I may be ugly. I may be an American. But don't call me an ugly American.
 
jamincan
Posts: 572
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Why did Obama Win?

Wed Nov 07, 2012 1:13 pm

For me, Romney seemed to be someone who would be more interested in how he could help himself and his friends. I found him completely and utterly slimy and loathsome. Not that it means anything as a Canadian.
 
AeroWesty
Posts: 19551
Joined: Sat Oct 30, 2004 7:37 am

Why did Obama Win?

Wed Nov 07, 2012 1:17 pm

Quoting pu (Reply 21):
it seems to me the Democrats in a normal economy have nothing to worry about....because even in an abnormal economy like this they're strong enough to win.

53% of Americans still blame the economy on Bush. This is an abnormal situation. I wouldn't count on it as the norm going forward that the Dems can count on in future.
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bristolflyer
Posts: 2103
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Why did Obama Win?

Wed Nov 07, 2012 1:22 pm

Romney definitely lost it - the guy was not appropriate to run the country. Remember what happened las time he went abroad? P!ssed off all 3 countries he went to. He and hence the US) would have been a laughing stock on the national stage.
Fortune favours the brave
 
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Why did Obama Win?

Wed Nov 07, 2012 1:24 pm

Quoting csavel (Reply 36):
3) People are actually smart enough to know that a president, ANY president can't wave a magic wand and fix a broken economy.

And the two corollaries:
3a) Romney never explained how a 1%er vulture capitalist like himself was going to be able to fix things either, and
3b) It was many of the GOP policies like less regulation that lead us right into the Great Financial Crisis to begin with

Time for you to head back to Belmont MA, Mitt. Or was that La Jolla, CA? Or Squam Lake, NH? Somewhere where you can hang with your 1%ers and bitch about the 47%.
Inspiration, move me brightly! Light the song with sense and color.
Hold away despair, more than this I will not ask.
Faced with mysteries dark and vast, statements just seem vain at last.
Some rise, some fall, some climb, to get to Terrapin!
 
flymia
Posts: 6810
Joined: Thu Jun 14, 2001 6:33 am

Why did Obama Win?

Wed Nov 07, 2012 1:51 pm

Quoting Ken777 (Reply 11):
If you look at Ohio (and other industrial states) I think the reason is Obama's support for the auto industry and

I agree with that. Our tax dollars might have won Obama this race.

Quoting DocLightning (Reply 15):
Over three years of non-stop job growth is not ineffectual. And that's in spite of the GOP, not because of it.

Job Growth? Sure we are gaining jobs but NOT enough for population growth. The job market is weak. It is hard to find jobs for free for students. The job market sucks. There are very few jobs out there and unemployment is 0.1% higher today than it was when Obama took office. How that is job growth is beyond me.

Quoting Ken777 (Reply 17):
THe GOP needs to start listening to those in the party who see victory in the middle. Built on a stronger middle class, intelligent government programs and moderation. The wild eyed hard right clearly lost today.

Agreed. Most Americans want a smaller government, most Americans also to not want taxes raised. Yet most Americans voted for Obama. How I am not sure. I guess they think other issues are more important like Social Issues. I think what killed the GOP here is the primary process. Too many debates, and for a good candidate like Romney to get out of the party he needs to be way too much to the right. The "real" Romney from being GOV in Mass would have had a much better chance at winning this thing. The GOP needs to go more in the center for social issues, get away from religion and politics and just focus on the government. This country is still a Center Right country, the problem is the base of the GOP is too far right.
"It was just four of us on the flight deck, trying to do our job" (Captain Al Haynes)
 
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casinterest
Posts: 5393
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Why did Obama Win?

Wed Nov 07, 2012 2:06 pm

Quoting flymia (Reply 41):
I agree with that. Our tax dollars might have won Obama this race.

If Ohio had been the deciding factor, maybe that would be true, but Florida and Va are the real stories.

Quoting flymia (Reply 41):

Job Growth? Sure we are gaining jobs but NOT enough for population growth. The job market is weak. It is hard to find jobs for free for students. The job market sucks. There are very few jobs out there and unemployment is 0.1% higher today than it was when Obama took office. How that is job growth is beyond me.

The job market is shaping up. A lot of the uncertainty about the Affordable care act is over. Housing is recovering The ROW is the big problem right now. Jobs will come ,and they will come fast if housing keeps up the gains,

Quoting pu (Thread starter):
Thoughts?

The economy was a big factor,but I think the GOP overplayed their hand on this. Exit pols yesterday showed that the majority still held the previous administration responsible for the hole we are digging out of. Will that change in the next few years? Perhaps, but it doesn't matter, Obama can't run again.

At the end of the day ,I think the GOP put too much effort into their Rural White base, and it came back to bite them, birtherism, welfare, immigration. These issues along with some of the women's issues hurt them.
Older than I just was ,and younger than I will soo be.
 
D L X
Posts: 11663
Joined: Thu May 27, 1999 3:30 am

Why did Obama Win?

Wed Nov 07, 2012 2:18 pm

Quoting flymia (Reply 41):

I agree with that. Our tax dollars might have won Obama this race.

Translation: Obama doing his job well might have won Obama this race.

Quoting flymia (Reply 41):
Most Americans want a smaller government

This is where Republicans are wrong. Most Americans want a smaller government... for other people.

Quoting flymia (Reply 41):
most Americans also to not want taxes raised.

And most Americans will not see their taxes raised, just as no American has seen his taxes raised in Obama's first term.

Obama won this election because Americans think he did a fairly good job with a bad hand, and see the alternative as playing them for fools. Tell enough lies and hope one sticks.

Quoting flymia (Reply 41):
The GOP needs to go more in the center for social issues, get away from religion and politics and just focus on the government.

This is correct and a half!

Quoting flymia (Reply 41):
This country is still a Center Right country

No, it really isn't, and this election should prove it to you. If the GOP wants to be relevant into the future, it has to stop believing this.

Quoting flymia (Reply 41):
I think what killed the GOP here is the primary process.

Absolutely right. You and I will always agree on this point.
 
voodoo
Posts: 1959
Joined: Mon Mar 19, 2001 12:14 am

Why did Obama Win?

Wed Nov 07, 2012 2:28 pm

Quoting flymia (Reply 41):
This country is still a Center Right country, the problem is the base of the GOP is too far right.

True-ish but that may assume an obsolescent definition of the political spectrum.
IMHO: Compared to most 21st-century Western countries political spectrums, it is Obama who is occupying 'Center Right'. If the Dems continue to 'Occupy CR' (see what I did there?) then the Republican Party will probably fracture or, at least, severely convulse, until something befalls the Dems and they lose concentration. See: UK Labour vs. Conservative Party 1997-2010. The GOP cannot 'occupy' where they want, when they want. It's 'No Vacancy' at the moment.



[Edited 2012-11-07 06:30:55]
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AeroWesty
Posts: 19551
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Why did Obama Win?

Wed Nov 07, 2012 2:45 pm

Quoting D L X (Reply 43):
Obama won this election because Americans think he did a fairly good job with a bad hand, and see the alternative as playing them for fools.

Pretty much the way I see it as well. Looking back to where we were in 2008 with the world swiftly collapsing economically, Obama is generally seen as not making things worse since then, and not having a hand in creating that crisis, so "blame" was hard to place on the current administration. I think most people understood there wasn't an overnight solution, which is why he was able to be re-elected with a 7.9% unemployment rate.

Last night's voting was incredibly interesting. Ohio, Florida and Virginia have now been mostly marginalized as electorally important. Heck, in Florida they even stopped counting votes in the middle of the night.
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InsideMan
Posts: 238
Joined: Thu Aug 04, 2011 9:49 am

Why did Obama Win?

Wed Nov 07, 2012 2:47 pm

Quoting MadameConcorde (Reply 27):
Romney was seen as the rich people's candidate who would have cut down on the "nanny state" therefore unpopular with the masses. A majority of people really like the idea of a "nanny state".

There's lots of room between a nanny state and leaving everyone alone in their mess, no matter what. There are some things Americans can only do together and I think "Sandy" was a good reminder why you need a strong (not big) government to help the people.

Besides, the economy alone would have been enough for the GOP to win, but they lost on social issues. It's time for the GOP to move on to the 21st century. Gay marriage, DADT, a womans right to chose, immigration, health care .....
Their stand on these issues alienates voters and quite frankly doesn't make them trust on economic issues either.
 
bjorn14
Posts: 3552
Joined: Sat Feb 27, 2010 2:11 pm

Why did Obama Win?

Wed Nov 07, 2012 2:59 pm

Quoting flymia (Reply 5):
Why Obama won. You want the real reason?

Obama managed to convince his base that the economy wasn't his fault and they believed him. Despite virtually every major economic indicator being worse than when he took office.

From Romney's side the Evangelicals stayed home.
"I want to know the voice of God the rest is just details" --A. Einstein
 
aloges
Posts: 14842
Joined: Tue Jan 17, 2006 3:38 am

Why did Obama Win?

Wed Nov 07, 2012 3:00 pm

Quoting pu (Thread starter):
WHY Obama Won?

'cause of Dubya's support:

George Bush Accidently Votes For Obama

The man really can't catch a break...
Don't cry because it's over, smile because it happened.
 
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pvjin
Posts: 3041
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Why did Obama Win?

Wed Nov 07, 2012 3:31 pm

Quoting bjorn14 (Reply 47):
Obama managed to convince his base that the economy wasn't his fault and they believed him. Despite virtually every major economic indicator being worse than when he took office.

It isn't his fault, these economic crisis are worldwide and one man can't magically make everything better when rest of the world is mostly going worse. Educated part of US population understands that and voted for Obama, other than those who had a lot of money and thus voted for Romney as his politics would have benefited rich people.
"Optimism is the madness of insisting that all is well when we are miserable." - Voltaire

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