AA7295
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US Election - Unhappy Voters Ask To Secede From US

Tue Nov 13, 2012 12:15 am

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-us-canada-20301477

I mean, I think the only thing that needs to be said is that education funding needs to be increased in these states.

Your thoughts?
 
lewis
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RE: US Election - Unhappy Voters Ask To Secede From US

Tue Nov 13, 2012 12:24 am

Quoting AA7295 (Thread starter):
I mean, I think the only thing that needs to be said is that education funding needs to be increased in these states.

Indeed....

Quote:
The text complains of "blatant abuses" of Americans' rights. It cites the Transportation Security Administration, whose staff have been accused of intrusive airport screening of flyers.

Are these people forgetting what (or who) started the erosion of their rights in the first place? Living in a bubble doesn't even begin to describe it!
 
tz757300
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RE: US Election - Unhappy Voters Ask To Secede From US

Tue Nov 13, 2012 12:29 am

Well, I'm not defending this at all, but of all the petitions, the most popular one, Texas, has been a mildly legitimate issue ever since they became a state. I know of many who seek the route of reverting Texas back to an independent Republic.

That said, all of this is rubbish and won't get very far.
LETS GO MOUNTAINEERS!
 
TheCommodore
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RE: US Election - Unhappy Voters Ask To Secede From US

Tue Nov 13, 2012 12:31 am

Quoting AA7295 (Thread starter):
Your thoughts?

Well......

Look what happened last time.....

The last time states officially seceded, following the election of Abraham Lincoln, the US Civil War followed.

I would have thought, that the US is fighting enough wars at the moment.
  
“At first, they'll only dislike what you say, but the more correct you start sounding the more they'll dislike you.”
 
LMP737
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RE: US Election - Unhappy Voters Ask To Secede From US

Tue Nov 13, 2012 12:31 am

Yawn, the same thing happened in 2004 and 2008. Just a tiny percentage of people actually signed these petitions.
Never take financial advice from co-workers.
 
rfields5421
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RE: US Election - Unhappy Voters Ask To Secede From US

Tue Nov 13, 2012 12:32 am

According to a local TV station here in Dallas, 30,000+ people have signed such a petition.

Of course - 3,294,440 people in Texas voted FOR President Obama and VP Biden.

So 100 to 1 - people in Texas prefer Obama as President over succession.
 
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DeltaMD90
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RE: US Election - Unhappy Voters Ask To Secede From US

Tue Nov 13, 2012 1:05 am

Yeah, really, 100,000 / 315,000,000 = about 0.03%.

Slow news day I'm guessing. Get the number up to about 20% then I might be scared. There exist fringe people in Europe as well...
Ironically I have never flown a Delta MD-90 :)
 
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DocLightning
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RE: US Election - Unhappy Voters Ask To Secede From US

Tue Nov 13, 2012 1:10 am

Quoting tz757300 (Reply 2):
Well, I'm not defending this at all, but of all the petitions, the most popular one, Texas, has been a mildly legitimate issue ever since they became a state. I know of many who seek the route of reverting Texas back to an independent Republic.

I have the solution: Let them secede. Then invade them for their oil. (You wanted to be your own country? OK, then!) Shoot only combatants.   Annex the "country" back into a state. And that will end all the whining about how Texas was never "legally" blah blah blah.

These separatist movements crack me up. Quebec, Texas, Cataluña... do you think that after seceding from a country that the country will keep letting you have all the benefits of being a state/province/autonomous community? No. You lose all your trade rights, your ability to travel across the border, your highways, your rail links, etc.
-Doc Lightning-

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rfields5421
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RE: US Election - Unhappy Voters Ask To Secede From US

Tue Nov 13, 2012 1:19 am

Quoting tz757300 (Reply 2):
Texas, has been a mildly legitimate issue ever since they became a state. I know of many who seek the route of reverting Texas back to an independent Republic.

That fiction still exists.

A lot of Texans and most of the thousands of illegals who came to Texas and fought in the Texas Revolution, sought to have Texas admitted to the United States. They specifically opposed Texas becoming an independent nation

In 1845 Texas voted overwhelmingly to join the union. They had a right to create four additional states from Texas territory, but chose not to do so. The voters of Texas in 1845 explicitly voted to forfeit any right to leave the union and re-form a Republic.

Under President Buchanan, Texas joined several other states and 'seceding' from the nation before Lincoln became President.

Part of the state's 'readmission' and permission to elect its own government and representatives in Congress was giving up any 'rights' to become four additional states or secede at any point in the future.
 
Ken777
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RE: US Election - Unhappy Voters Ask To Secede From US

Tue Nov 13, 2012 1:43 am

The easiest thing to do is to list all of the government workers and government installations that would be shut down.

Start with military bases.

Then list all the government funding that would be cut, like research funding.

Doesn't take long to make the losses clear to the yo-yos.
 
seb146
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RE: US Election - Unhappy Voters Ask To Secede From US

Tue Nov 13, 2012 2:17 am

Quoting Ken777 (Reply 9):
Then list all the government funding that would be cut, like research funding.

And, let's not forget the most recipeants for things like food stamps and unemployment and such, per capita, are in places like Alabama, Mississippi, Texas.... Those "git big gub'mint outta my life!!" states. The ones who want to leave the Union.
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johnboy
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RE: US Election - Unhappy Voters Ask To Secede From US

Tue Nov 13, 2012 2:23 am

As long as we can build a Big Wall around the border, i'm fine with it.
 
ltbewr
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RE: US Election - Unhappy Voters Ask To Secede From US

Tue Nov 13, 2012 2:28 am

The real intention of these secession petitions is to protest the Federal Government and support State Rights as to a wide variety of Federal regulations including as to social welfare, environmental, businesses and so on.
 
Quokkas
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RE: US Election - Unhappy Voters Ask To Secede From US

Tue Nov 13, 2012 3:12 am

"More than 100,000 Americans have petitioned the White House "

Remind me of what the population of the US is - 311,591,917 in July 2011. (Source: U.S. Census Bureau) So approximately 0.03% of the population or about 0.04% of the voter aged population of ± 235,940,406.

Even from Texas, with a population of 25,674,681 in July 2011, was the only petition to reach the threshold of 25,000 signatures at which the White House normally responds.

But aren't these people jumping the gun? Leaving aside US Constitutional provisions and looking at it purely from a State perspective, wouldn't any request to secede have to come about as a result of a majority vote cast in the state legislature? Shouldn't the petitioners first determine that a majority in their State actually want the state to secede rather than making a direct appeal to the White House?

Given the small number of signatories to each petition I am doubtful that they could persuade their fellow citizens. Even in Texas less than one tenth of 1% were sufficiently moved to put pen to paper.
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seb146
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RE: US Election - Unhappy Voters Ask To Secede From US

Tue Nov 13, 2012 3:45 am

Quoting ltbewr (Reply 12):
The real intention of these secession petitions is to protest the Federal Government and support State Rights as to a wide variety of Federal regulations including as to social welfare, environmental, businesses and so on.

It's odd how these secession petitions only come up in the days following a presidential election, though.
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casinterest
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RE: US Election - Unhappy Voters Ask To Secede From US

Tue Nov 13, 2012 3:54 am

Quoting Quokkas (Reply 13):
Remind me of what the population of the US is - 311,591,917 in July 2011. (Source: U.S. Census Bureau) So approximately 0.03% of the population or about 0.04% of the voter aged population of ± 235,940,406.

Approximately 1.1% of the US population has schizophrenia according to the NIH., So these secession discussions are just kind of funny at this point.
Older than I just was ,and younger than I will soo be.
 
rfields5421
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RE: US Election - Unhappy Voters Ask To Secede From US

Tue Nov 13, 2012 4:34 am

Quoting seb146 (Reply 14):
It's odd how these secession petitions only come up in the days following a presidential election, though.

We have two full-time secession groups in Texas. It comes up all the time.

We even had folks saying Romney was too liberal and Texas should secede if he was elected.

Texas is home to the world's greatest fruitcakes - the real ones - and the political ones are also world class.
 
jetblueguy22
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RE: US Election - Unhappy Voters Ask To Secede From US

Tue Nov 13, 2012 5:27 am

I'm sad to admit my state, North Dakota, is on the list   . Although apparently there was some story months ago that said we weren't properly admitted. Probably more garbage from these succession groups. All these people need to just find a nice island somewhere and start a colony. Two weeks ago they march around saying we are the best country in the world and now want to leave the union. What a joke. They are just letting some people on one side of the aisle say how they get no cooperation. They need to get their act together, stop making republicans look like loons, and work to fix the problems, not create them.
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seb146
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RE: US Election - Unhappy Voters Ask To Secede From US

Tue Nov 13, 2012 6:02 am

Quoting jetblueguy22 (Reply 17):
Two weeks ago they march around saying we are the best country in the world and now want to leave the union. What a joke.

Exactly. Much as I hate Patriot Act and Bush II, I would rather stay and vote the bums out and get the country I would like to see rather than give up. This is my home. I think Canada and Finland are great, but U.S.A. is my home.
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PHX787
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RE: US Election - Unhappy Voters Ask To Secede From US

Tue Nov 13, 2012 6:27 am

If this stuff wasn't from those ultra religious rednecks, I'd be more apt to agree with them.


here's the thing: our nation is severely divided and it's not gonna get any better. I'm actually surprised this election wasn't violent.
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Newark727
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RE: US Election - Unhappy Voters Ask To Secede From US

Tue Nov 13, 2012 6:41 am

Quoting PHX787 (Reply 19):
here's the thing: our nation is severely divided and it's not gonna get any better.

It's good that the nation has largely accepted this as a fact to consider but it seems no one has yet found the next logical step: how and why? Everything that happens, happens for a reason. I'm not yet ready to assign that much blame, but I think our leaders, both of politics and opinion, have started leaning too hard on the easy ways, the cheap tricks and spiteful loopholes to either get their way, or just prevent the people they disagree with from getting theirs. We revere the Constitution, as well we should, but refuse to consider any further refinement on the system it created; as such, it's too easy to turn ideas written two hundred years ago to some unintended and unrelated advantage. Structures of government should last, but they shouldn't be Procrustean.
 
Aeri28
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RE: US Election - Unhappy Voters Ask To Secede From US

Tue Nov 13, 2012 7:20 am

these groups are nothing new and exist in many states and have for many years. Groups in Northern California wanting to split from Southern CA and vice versa, Hawaii having its own groups, nothing new, and just really brought to the forefront due to the recent election results.

Does not mean that XX amount of states want to secede from the Union. Nothing new to see here folks!
 
Maverick623
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RE: US Election - Unhappy Voters Ask To Secede From US

Tue Nov 13, 2012 8:49 am

Quoting DeltaMD90 (Reply 6):
Yeah, really, 100,000 / 315,000,000 = about 0.03%.

I know, I mean could find 500,000 people that would sign a petition to end women's suffrage.

Quoting PHX787 (Reply 19):
here's the thing: our nation is severely divided and it's not gonna get any better.

We've been worse; far worse, and never saw anything come of it.

Quoting PHX787 (Reply 19):
I'm actually surprised this election wasn't violent.

I would have been surprised if it had been. Seriously, there's a lot of blustering going on, but it's all talk and no substance.
"PHX is Phoenix, PDX is the other city" -777Way
 
rfields5421
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RE: US Election - Unhappy Voters Ask To Secede From US

Tue Nov 13, 2012 1:04 pm

Quoting PHX787 (Reply 19):
here's the thing: our nation is severely divided and it's not gonna get any better. I'm actually surprised this election wasn't violent.

I disagree that we are a nation severely divided.

We are a nation where the media airways are saturated with extremist views, and any media coverage which is actually fair and balanced or seeks to unite people is condemned as 'leftist mainstream media'.

Complaints about 'mainstream media' are simply folks not wanting to realize their views are not the views of the majority of Americans.

But we have a lot of people, which is still a very small minority, that see people of different colors, poor people, i.e anyone 'different' getting decent jobs as a 'threat' and want to make sure it does not happen.

I strongly believe the reason Romney lost this election was his taxes. Working people in this nation simply cannot identify/ agree with a man who pays only 14% in taxes while they pay 22-26%, and he says he needs lower tax rates while they need to pay more.

In my opinion, most people in this nation want the same thing - fair government, fair taxes, a safety net to protect the unfortunates, a fair opportunity for jobs and to get ahead. They are fed up with the media and the politicians who pander to the media.

There is massive apathy about the entire political process. That is it too messed up to be fixed. That anyone on TV talking about fixing things is lying and simply out to find a way to get more for themselves and deprive others. That the system is broken and the best that can be hoped for is that the people in Washington won't mess up things too badly.

Such apathy, dissatisfaction and lack of passion by the vast majority of the people/ voters in the US isn't really a bad thing. If people were actually passionate about issues, and focused on getting their issues resolved through government - the US would have a fractured multi-party system with changes of government power several times a year. That would create an even greater lack of positive action out of DC than we already have.

For a republic to work on the level of the size of nation we have, most of the people must be willing to accept compromise. To accept that 40-60% of the time, they will not get the things they want passed by the government system. They just hope the really important one or two issues get resolved.

People who demand more are a small minority - and really don't want a republic or a democracy.


Re Violence.

August 9, 1974 was about the single day I was proudest of my nation during my life.

At the time I was stationed in the Philippines, and was participating in a conference with representatives from Thailand, Malaysia, Singapore, Indonesia, Australia and New Zealand.

They simply could not believe that the President of the United States could be forced out of office - and there was no violence. No riots in the street, no shootings, etc.

We've had violence in the streets in this country during my lifetime. We've had the National Guard firing on citizens protesting XXXXX. We've had mobs burning down anything they could in rage.

People in the US today are smarter than they were in the 60s.
 
helvknight
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RE: US Election - Unhappy Voters Ask To Secede From US

Tue Nov 13, 2012 1:27 pm

Quoting rfields5421 (Reply 27):

An excellent post. Glad someone gets it.

Welcome to my RU list.
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NBGSkyGod
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RE: US Election - Unhappy Voters Ask To Secede From US

Tue Nov 13, 2012 6:55 pm

Finally someone gets it. The media is mostly to blame for the belief that there is a large divide in this country. They give credence to extremist grounds such as the Tea Party and Occupy sects, that shift focus from real issues to issues that shouldn't even be up for debate in the twenty-first century, ie. gay marriage, and women's rights. These groups are nothing more than a loud minority that has drowned out the moderate common-sense voices that comprise the majority of America.

One of the reasons that I have become a Recovering Republican is that the GOP refuses to run someone who's views only appeal to a small percentage of the population. The GOP needs to realize that white males are now a minority in this country, and to only work to appeal to them is going continue to hurt them in the future. Once the GOP can figure out how to tackle social issues without resorting to religious extremism I might think about voting Republican again.
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ER757
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RE: US Election - Unhappy Voters Ask To Secede From US

Wed Nov 14, 2012 2:19 am

Quoting DocLightning (Reply 7):
These separatist movements crack me up. Quebec, Texas, Cataluña... do you think that after seceding from a country that the country will keep letting you have all the benefits of being a state/province/autonomous community? No. You lose all your trade rights, your ability to travel across the border, your highways, your rail links, etc.

Bingo! Let's put this in a.nut terms. You want to fly AA LIT/DFW/PHX? Well, better have your passport in order when you check in at LIT and be ready to go through customs and immigration when you get to PHX. You want to take that non-stop SEA/MDW on WN? Sorry, only US flag carriers can fly US domestic routes and since WN has their HQ in Dallas, that makes them a flag carrier of the Republic of Texas.
Let's go into trade - ABC Co wants to send their weekly shipment of widgets to Acme Inc in Memphis - well, now it can't go to Acme - has to go to a bonded warehouse in MEM so that Acme can have their customs broker work on getting it cleared first. How long do you think it will be before Acme Inc decides it's much less hassle to buy their widgets from XYZ Co in Chicago? How long before all ABC's interstate customers fee the same way? And let's not even start thinking about all the long-haul trucks that pass through Texas on east/west routes that now won't want to have to go through international border crossings at both ends, thus depriving Texas of highway taxes, money spent on diesel fuel, food and lodging etc.
This is just a very small sample - people who come up with these hare-brained ideas never think about the real world consequences of what they propose.
 
L-188
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RE: US Election - Unhappy Voters Ask To Secede From US

Wed Nov 14, 2012 2:24 am

I still want to see Alaska have her independence, it is not because of the election. There a long history that predates O'bummers birth in Narobi Kenya.

Frankly he Is the one that sucks, o why should I leave the us on the account of him?
OBAMA-WORST PRESIDENT EVER....Even SKOORB would be better.
 
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2707200X
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RE: US Election - Unhappy Voters Ask To Secede From US

Wed Nov 14, 2012 3:05 am

Quoting L-188 (Reply 31):
There a long history that predates O'bummers birth in Narobi Kenya.

Alaska has it's fair share of nuts and legumes.

Quoting L-188 (Reply 31):
still want to see Alaska have her independence,

Alaska over the US of A aye?

I guess binged out conservatives don't have a monopoly on patriotism when their Republican candidate looses to the opponent well Obama anyway, they opt to concede from the union instead. Just like the Confederacy and for the same reasons.
"And all I ask is a tall ship and a star to steer her by." John Masefield Sea-Fever
 
dlramp4life
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RE: US Election - Unhappy Voters Ask To Secede From US

Wed Nov 14, 2012 3:06 am

Quoting 2707200X (Reply 32):
Alaska has it's fair share of nuts and legumes.

You betcha!
SEA Ramp, wettest place on earth
 
iFlyLOTs
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RE: US Election - Unhappy Voters Ask To Secede From US

Wed Nov 14, 2012 3:58 am

Quoting dlramp4life (Reply 33):
Quoting 2707200X (Reply 32):
Alaska has it's fair share of nuts and legumes.

You betcha!

   This made my night

Weren't these the same "patriots" that thought the country was going to go to the crapper if Obama was re-elected? Well if they leave then both the US and their respective country (Texas, Alaska, etc) will go right down the crapper for sure.
"...stay hungry, stay foolish" -Steve Jobs
 
L-188
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RE: US Election - Unhappy Voters Ask To Secede From US

Wed Nov 14, 2012 5:08 am

Quoting iFlyLOTs (Reply 30):

Weren't these the same "patriots" that thought the country was going to go to the crapper if Obama was re-elected?

It is going down the crapper, and obummer was re-elected

Everybody forgets too, i am not registered as a republican, but AIP
OBAMA-WORST PRESIDENT EVER....Even SKOORB would be better.
 
Superfly
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RE: US Election - Unhappy Voters Ask To Secede From US

Wed Nov 14, 2012 6:34 am

Quoting LMP737 (Reply 4):
Yawn, the same thing happened in 2004

Exactly.

Proposed map after John Kerry lost to Dubya.

Bring back the Concorde
 
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DocLightning
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RE: US Election - Unhappy Voters Ask To Secede From US

Wed Nov 14, 2012 6:35 am

http://undeniableme.wordpress.com/20.../19/so-youre-thinking-of-seceding/

Quote:
If you are one of the riled-up citizens of the few States wishing to secede from the Nation, there are a few things you should know about the act of secession before pursuing your wild and zany goals:
Quoting iFlyLOTs (Reply 30):
  This made my night

You know that Mrs. Palin is from Idaho, yes? They don't talk that way in Alaska.
-Doc Lightning-

"The sky calls to us. If we do not destroy ourselves, we will one day venture to the stars."
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L-188
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RE: US Election - Unhappy Voters Ask To Secede From US

Wed Nov 14, 2012 7:02 am

Interesting list Doc but not a single item on it hasn't been overcome by every other country in the world.
OBAMA-WORST PRESIDENT EVER....Even SKOORB would be better.
 
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DocLightning
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RE: US Election - Unhappy Voters Ask To Secede From US

Wed Nov 14, 2012 7:11 am

Quoting Superfly (Reply 32):
Proposed map after John Kerry lost to Dubya.

Equally silly, ALTHOUGH it probably would have worked out better had the USC (United States of Canada) actually formed than, say, North Carolina or Texas seceding.

First of all, it would have been the absorption of states into an existing government. Second, all the states (except Hawaii) would have been geographically contiguous.

But that assumes that the secession were orderly and amicable with trade agreements already in place. That's not really realistic.


Quoting L-188 (Reply 34):

Interesting list Doc but not a single item on it hasn't been overcome by every other country in the world.

The last secession event I can think about was in Sub-Saharan Africa, where most of these issues aren't even issues. The only other example would be the breakup of Yugoslavia, and I can tell you that, having visited those states, it was messy. But they at least had Europe nearby. Texas would have Mexico nearby.

Now, tell me, let's assume for a moment that Texas did split off (I'm just using Texas because they've been the loudest of the bunch). Do you think this would occur with favorable trade relations in place with the USA? I doubt it. In fact, I think Texas would have to win a civil war. But let's assume they did, I'm pretty sure the other 49 would be pretty sore about it. Even if we didn't immediately re-invade (or carpet nuke), we'd probably treat Texas pretty much like we treat Iran now. You do business with Texas? We don't do business with you.
-Doc Lightning-

"The sky calls to us. If we do not destroy ourselves, we will one day venture to the stars."
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Superfly
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RE: US Election - Unhappy Voters Ask To Secede From US

Wed Nov 14, 2012 7:29 am

Quoting DocLightning (Reply 35):
Equally silly, ALTHOUGH it probably would have worked out better had the USC (United States of Canada) actually formed than, say, North Carolina or Texas seceding.

First of all, it would have been the absorption of states into an existing government. Second, all the states (except Hawaii) would have been geographically contiguous.

But that assumes that the secession were orderly and amicable with trade agreements already in place. That's not really realistic.

Canada doesn't want to take on all the debt that those states have racked up. Plus Canada understands the importance of drilling for oil which wouldn't sit well with all of those 'experts' in Hollywood and New York City.
Bring back the Concorde
 
Quokkas
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RE: US Election - Unhappy Voters Ask To Secede From US

Wed Nov 14, 2012 7:33 am

Quoting DocLightning (Reply 33):
You know that Mrs. Palin is from Idaho, yes?

And wasn't the founder of the Alaska Independance Party born in Kansas?

Quoting DocLightning (Reply 35):
The only other example would be the breakup of Yugoslavia,

Secession under amicable terms is possible if you have sensible people. The Czech and Slovak Republics separated on amicable terms in what was dubbed the velvet divorce.

Peaceful negotiations resulted in a split of national assets. Neither party sought successor status but both agreed to honour and abide by treaties signed by the former Czechoslovakia. Both admitted to the UN. No bloodshed.
“Not to laugh, not to cry, not to hate, but understand.” Spinoza
 
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DocLightning
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RE: US Election - Unhappy Voters Ask To Secede From US

Wed Nov 14, 2012 7:40 am

Quoting Quokkas (Reply 37):
And wasn't the founder of the Alaska Independance Party born in Kansas?

There is no zealot like a convert...
-Doc Lightning-

"The sky calls to us. If we do not destroy ourselves, we will one day venture to the stars."
-Carl Sagan
 
cmf
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RE: US Election - Unhappy Voters Ask To Secede From US

Wed Nov 14, 2012 7:42 am

Quoting DocLightning (Reply 35):
The only other example would be the breakup of Yugoslavia

The split of Czechoslovakia worked without much problems. But I'm sure the people suggesting secession have little idea what it means in practice.
Don’t repeat earlier generations mistakes. Learn history for a better future.
 
Kiwirob
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RE: US Election - Unhappy Voters Ask To Secede From US

Wed Nov 14, 2012 7:55 am

Quoting DocLightning (Reply 7):
You lose all your trade rights, your ability to travel across the border, your highways, your rail links, etc.

Really the roads and railways will still be there, kinda hard to rip them up, people will still be able to travel across the border, it wouldn't be any different than Canadians crossing to the US, so I don't get your point? Fairly certain that if Texas succeeded they would join NAFTA, and you would still want what they have and that's the oil.
 
rfields5421
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RE: US Election - Unhappy Voters Ask To Secede From US

Wed Nov 14, 2012 1:30 pm

Quoting KiwiRob (Reply 40):
Fairly certain that if Texas succeeded they would join NAFTA, and you would still want what they have and that's the oil.

Both Texas secession movements firmly reject NAFTA. They would embargo shipment of parts, food and finished goods from Mexico to the US through Texas.

That would shutdown several night cargo operations which fly auto parts out of Del Rio and other border cities to auto plants around the US. Actually it would move those operations to airports in Mexico and newly setup customs airports in Louisiana and Oklahoma.

Texas does have a pretty fair source of oil. But not irreplaceable. They also depend heavily upon a pipeline infrastructure which run through Oklahoma.

What Texas does have the loss of which would really hurt the US is oil refineries.

The really big issue would be water.

There is a very complicated agreement between the US and Mexico about water from the Rio Grande River. The United States could allow New Mexico to use as much Rio Grande River water as they want, and allow Mexico to pump out even more - with a huge negative impact upon the extensive agriculture industry in the lower valley.

There would also be issues with the Red River water. Oklahoma is currently not happy about Texas cities trying to pump Red River water into the DFW area.

As far as border crossings. The one I'd want to see is a city near where I grew up - Texarkana where the border runs down the main street in the city.
 
L-188
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RE: US Election - Unhappy Voters Ask To Secede From US

Wed Nov 14, 2012 2:34 pm

Doc, would thnk if done right that it would be peaceful, like the breakup of Chechcolvakia or the current process Scotland is working through.

I would hope in the case of the later we would get it done a wee bit faster
OBAMA-WORST PRESIDENT EVER....Even SKOORB would be better.
 
NBGSkyGod
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RE: US Election - Unhappy Voters Ask To Secede From US

Wed Nov 14, 2012 2:47 pm

Quoting L-188 (Reply 42):
Doc, would thnk if done right that it would be peaceful, like the breakup of Chechcolvakia or the current process Scotland is working through.

I would hope in the case of the later we would get it done a wee bit faster

I think it could be done peacfully, however there would be a vast many problems, especially in places where the US government would have to interact with these new sovergn governments, ie military installations, the deintegration of the National Guard out of the regular US miltiary system. Who retains ownership of the equipment, planes, nuclear weapons.

Would these states that have nuclear weapons stored there be willing to return them to the US Government, and in the time between seceesion and agreement, could the security of these weapons be maintained. Would these populations stand by and allow a foreign government to continue to have military presence in their new country?
Pilots are idots, who at any given moment will attempt to kill themselves or others.
 
D L X
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RE: US Election - Unhappy Voters Ask To Secede From US

Wed Nov 14, 2012 4:16 pm

Quoting Maverick623 (Reply 22):
I know, I mean could find 500,000 people that would sign a petition to end women's suffrage.

Well yeah! I mean, what sickos want women to suffer?













 
 
rfields5421
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RE: US Election - Unhappy Voters Ask To Secede From US

Wed Nov 14, 2012 4:17 pm

Quoting NBGSkyGod (Reply 43):
Who retains ownership of the equipment, planes, nuclear weapons.

The United States would retain possession of all those assets.

Among the first things to occur would be closing the military bases and movement of the various equipment and personnel out of the state planning to secede.

Texas does have a problem with the Pantex plant, which would have to have an agreement to allow continued operation until a replacement could be built.

A bigger issue might be US strategic oil reserves and the National Helium Reserve.

Also what about the Air Force Plant in Fort Worth that Lockheed uses to produce the F-16 and F-35. That would surely be moved quickly. Along with the Bell/Textron helicopter and V-22 production in the DFW area and Amarillo.

I'm not even going to guess at the number of jobs the closing of Lackland, Fort Sam Houston (now knows as Joint Base San Antonio), Laughlin AFB, Goodfellow AFB, Randolph AFB, Dyess AFB, NAS Corpus, NAS Kingsville, NAS/JRB Fort Worth, Fort Hood, Fort Bliss, the Lone Star Army Depot, the Red River Army Depot and those plants would create.

Quoting NBGSkyGod (Reply 43):
allow a foreign government to continue to have military presence in their new country?

We, the United States, expect foreign governments to allow our military to have presence on their soil all the time. We also allow extensive foreign millitary presence in the US.

The German Air Force maintains a training unit in New Mexico. The Singapore Air Force maintains a training unit in Idaho, etc.
 
D L X
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RE: US Election - Unhappy Voters Ask To Secede From US

Wed Nov 14, 2012 4:43 pm

Quoting rfields5421 (Reply 45):
The United States would retain possession of all those assets.

Among the first things to occur would be closing the military bases and movement of the various equipment and personnel out of the state planning to secede.

Texas does have a problem with the Pantex plant, which would have to have an agreement to allow continued operation until a replacement could be built.

A bigger issue might be US strategic oil reserves and the National Helium Reserve.

Of course, Texas could always BUY those things off the United States to secure their independence.

Then they'd be Haiti.

Condensed version: Haiti bought their independence from France by paying France what it would have made from Haiti's incredible riches and natural resources. At the time, Haitians thought that paying money was worth their independence. But that debt saddled them for over 100 years, and was still being paid to France until the debt was finally forgiven after the recent devastating earthquake. Once the richest country in the western hemisphere, Haiti is now, well, Haiti.
 
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Dreadnought
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RE: US Election - Unhappy Voters Ask To Secede From US

Wed Nov 14, 2012 5:09 pm

Quoting DocLightning (Reply 35):
Now, tell me, let's assume for a moment that Texas did split off (I'm just using Texas because they've been the loudest of the bunch). Do you think this would occur with favorable trade relations in place with the USA? I doubt it. In fact, I think Texas would have to win a civil war. But let's assume they did, I'm pretty sure the other 49 would be pretty sore about it.

There is a little problem in that such retribution would run contrary to some of the founding concepts of both the US and Texas:

From the Declaration of Independance:

Quote:
Governments are instituted among Men, deriving their just powers from the consent of the governed, --That whenever any Form of Government becomes destructive of these ends, it is the Right of the People to alter or to abolish it, and to institute new Government...

From the Texas Constitution:

Quote:
All political power is inherent in the people, and all free governments are founded on their authority, and instituted for their benefit. The faith of the people of Texas stands pledged to the preservation of a republican form of government, and, subject to this limitation only, they have at all times the inalienable right to alter, reform or abolish their government in such manner as they may think expedient.

How can any nation faced with a portion of the country that wants to go their own way, justify forcing them to stay? Didn't we bomb Serbia for just that reason?

Quoting DocLightning (Reply 35):
Even if we didn't immediately re-invade (or carpet nuke), we'd probably treat Texas pretty much like we treat Iran now. You do business with Texas? We don't do business with you.

Why would you do that? Just out of bitterness?

Quoting rfields5421 (Reply 45):
The United States would retain possession of all those assets.

Not normally.

Quoting rfields5421 (Reply 45):
I'm not even going to guess at the number of jobs the closing of Lackland, Fort Sam Houston (now knows as Joint Base San Antonio), Laughlin AFB, Goodfellow AFB, Randolph AFB, Dyess AFB, NAS Corpus, NAS Kingsville, NAS/JRB Fort Worth, Fort Hood, Fort Bliss, the Lone Star Army Depot, the Red River Army Depot and those plants would create.

Texas would need its own military, so it won't be a total loss.
Forget dogs and cats - Spay and neuter your liberals.
 
Kiwirob
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RE: US Election - Unhappy Voters Ask To Secede From US

Wed Nov 14, 2012 5:29 pm

Quoting L-188 (Reply 42):
like the breakup of Chechcolvakia

Even google doesn't know where Chechcolvakia is.

Quoting L-188 (Reply 42):
the current process Scotland is working through.

Probably an equal chance of Texas independence as Scottish independence.
 
mt99
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RE: US Election - Unhappy Voters Ask To Secede From US

Wed Nov 14, 2012 5:35 pm

Quoting Dreadnought (Reply 47):
There is a little problem in that such retribution would run contrary to some of the founding concepts of both the US and Texas:
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