LFutia
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No More Twinkies!

Fri Nov 16, 2012 2:21 pm

Hostess, the maker of Twinkies and all the other delicious snacks, will be closing for good which will result in a loss of 18,000 jobs after a labour strike, and looming deadline for those to return to work never happened.

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dcann40
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RE: No More Twinkies!

Fri Nov 16, 2012 2:29 pm

I just saw the article in the WSJ

Quote:
Hostess Brands Inc., the maker of iconic treats such as Twinkies and traditional pantry staple Wonder Bread, said Friday it is shuttering its plants and will seek to liquidate the 82-year-old business.
[image] Reuters

Hostess Brands is seeking to liquidate.

The company, which filed for Chapter 11 in January, said it has requested bankruptcy-court authorization to close the business and sell its assets.

A victim of changing consumer tastes, high commodity costs and, most importantly, strained labor relations, Hostess ultimately was brought to its knees by a national strike orchestrated by its second-largest union. ...


online.wsj.com/article/SB10001424127887324556304578122632560842670.html
 
Braniff747SP
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RE: No More Twinkies!

Fri Nov 16, 2012 2:36 pm

No job is better than some job, apparently.
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Kiwirob
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RE: No More Twinkies!

Fri Nov 16, 2012 2:39 pm

Jesus I thought unions were supposed to protect jobs no lose them.
 
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Dreadnought
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RE: No More Twinkies!

Fri Nov 16, 2012 2:43 pm

The company was already under bankruptcy protection and desperately trying to restructure its business in order to survive. The company’s delivery drivers are Teamsters, who voted by a narrow margin to take a pay cut and benefit renegotiations in September rather than have the drivers lose their jobs in a down market. But the Bakery union say “No way” and decided on a strike rather than take a pay cut and reduced benefits.

I guess elections DO have consequences....92% voted to reject the contract....100% now out of work. I bet those Teamsters drivers are happy with the Bakery union tonight.
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stlgph
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RE: No More Twinkies!

Fri Nov 16, 2012 2:46 pm

Gee, what are they going to deep fry now at the Iowa State Fair?

But on a serious note, a lot of vendors do make a living literally by traveling the country every summer serving up Hostess products deep fried, baked, sizzled, etc. etc. -- and now they're pretty much screwed as well. Shame.
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cmf
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RE: No More Twinkies!

Fri Nov 16, 2012 2:52 pm

So a company is in C11 for the second time in less than 10 years but the "only" problem is that workers went on strike...

Seems to me the unions were the responsible here. End what obviously was a dead man walking.
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nitrohelper
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RE: No More Twinkies!

Fri Nov 16, 2012 3:05 pm

Some other bakers will purchase parts of the company - Twinkies will survive along with some of the other best sellers...
Probably will be made by non-union workers...
 
aloges
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RE: No More Twinkies!

Fri Nov 16, 2012 3:06 pm

"Tallahassee" is NOT going to like this!   

Quoting cmf (Reply 6):
So a company is in C11 for the second time in less than 10 years but the "only" problem is that workers went on strike...

Obviously.    Something stinks to high heaven, particularly when you consider these parts of the WSJ article:

Quote:
On the one hand, the names have decades of brand equity, and there is "pretty significant demand" for the products, according to Mr. Rayburn.
(...)
But Hostess has threatened liquidation before in the case—and during its last stint in Chapter 11—and not followed through.

If you "have" to liquidate a business whose products are selling well and have already been in Chapter 11 protection before (which you shouldn't have left without completing all necessary restructuring), you're doing something fundamentally wrong.

Quoting cmf (Reply 6):
End what obviously was a dead man walking.

  
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L-188
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RE: No More Twinkies!

Fri Nov 16, 2012 3:12 pm

Yup another kill for orginized labor

But most of the hostess brands will surivive. They are assets that will be sold to pay debts.
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blueflyer
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RE: No More Twinkies!

Fri Nov 16, 2012 3:19 pm

Quoting KiwiRob (Reply 3):
Jesus I thought unions were supposed to protect jobs no lose them.

Maybe the membership decided to do what others have been unwilling to do in similar situation, draw a line in the sand and refuse to watch as pay and benefits are dragged down for everyone.

Their gambit comes at the expense of the Hostess employees, but employees at other food manufacturers aren't going to be told their pay and benefits need to be cut in line with Hostess', unlike what has happened to a lot of other professions, chief among them pilots and flight attendants.

Besides, the company tried this... negotiation tactic once before but didn't follow up on its threat to close when employees called their bluff, so you can be forgiven for employees not taking it seriously this time.

Quoting Nitrohelper (Reply 7):
Probably will be made by non-union workers...

Not sure, depends where the plants are. Of course, a buyer could get the brand and formulation only and move production to right-to-work states, but they would lose valuable time and store shelves hate a vacuum...
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Dreadnought
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RE: No More Twinkies!

Fri Nov 16, 2012 3:26 pm

Quoting L-188 (Reply 9):
But most of the hostess brands will surivive. They are assets that will be sold to pay debts.

Yep. The brand and/or the specific product rights (like Twinkie) will be sold to Nestle, United Biscuit and other such companies, the debt and shareholders will get the proceeds of that and the workers will be left holding their ****s.

If this is not a textbook lesson of what happens when you have an outside business (in this case the Bakery, Confectionery, Tobacco Workers and Grain Millers' International Union, part of the AFL/CIO) brought in to "represent" workers, I don't know what is. Anyone care to bet that if Hostess' workers represented themselves (selected spokesmen, negotiators and leaders from among their own employees) that Hostess would still be around? When the union is entirely dependent on the survival of the company, they will be much more reasonable in their demands.
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slider
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RE: No More Twinkies!

Fri Nov 16, 2012 3:47 pm

The dogs bark and the caravan marches on...

Another sterling example of the idiocy of unions. 80%+ of Americans don't even have a company funded pension and these morons were asked to kick in 2% more for it, as well as increased medical and insurance costs (which are, in case anyone has had their head in the sand, going up across the board for everyone, everywhere in the US).

So they killed the golden goose.

Funniest Tweet I read on the matter--- "Parasites always kill their Host(ess)"....

Too true. Once again, a death knell for unions. Hostess will have their assets purchased, the recipe for Twinkies and all that stuff will continue and 18,000 people are now out of a job. Welcome to Obama's Amerika, circa 2012.
 
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DocLightning
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RE: No More Twinkies!

Fri Nov 16, 2012 3:48 pm

Quoting Dreadnought (Reply 11):
If this is not a textbook lesson of what happens when you have an outside business (in this case the Bakery, Confectionery, Tobacco Workers and Grain Millers' International Union, part of the AFL/CIO) brought in to "represent" workers, I don't know what is. Anyone care to bet that if Hostess' workers represented themselves (selected spokesmen, negotiators and leaders from among their own employees) that Hostess would still be around? When the union is entirely dependent on the survival of the company, they will be much more reasonable in their demands.

So what is your answer to the fact that the company has been in CH 11 twice in ten years and yet they sell a ridiculously fast-selling product?

Is that also the fault of the union?

What possible benefit would AFL/CIO have from sinking companies like this? It means less union dues for them and now the brand may re-open non-unionized. See, there's accusing them of being self-interested and then there's accusing them of being wantonly evil without motive.
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flipdewaf
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RE: No More Twinkies!

Fri Nov 16, 2012 3:52 pm

Quoting slider (Reply 12):
The dogs bark and the caravan marches on...

Another sterling example of the idiocy of unions. 80%+ of Americans don't even have a company funded pension and these morons were asked to kick in 2% more for it, as well as increased medical and insurance costs (which are, in case anyone has had their head in the sand, going up across the board for everyone, everywhere in the US).

So they killed the golden goose.

Funniest Tweet I read on the matter--- "Parasites always kill their Host(ess)"....

Too true. Once again, a death knell for unions. Hostess will have their assets purchased, the recipe for Twinkies and all that stuff will continue and 18,000 people are now out of a job. Welcome to Obama's Amerika, circa 2012.

Surely thats just capitalism and they weren't strong enough to survive? You should be praising this as it will make everything stronger overall.

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Tugger
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RE: No More Twinkies!

Fri Nov 16, 2012 4:00 pm

Quoting slider (Reply 12):
Too true. Once again, a death knell for unions. Hostess will have their assets purchased, the recipe for Twinkies and all that stuff will continue and 18,000 people are now out of a job. Welcome to Obama's Amerika, circa 2012.

Yes, during this second half of President Obama's time in office the economy will continue to strengthen and economics will continue to function and inefficient and poorly run companies will continue to fail and successful brands will be bought by other companies and continue on.

Funny because I would have thought you would have claimed that President Obama will step in an protect those union jobs. But good to see you didn't.

Tugg
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bjorn14
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RE: No More Twinkies!

Fri Nov 16, 2012 5:13 pm

I guess it's official

http://www.hostessbrands.com/Closing.aspx

I'll miss the Donut Gems. Cherry Pies, Snowballs and Ding Dongs.  
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RE: No More Twinkies!

Fri Nov 16, 2012 5:19 pm

Quoting bjorn14 (Reply 16):
I guess it's official

I guess potheads will have to confine themselves to the cheese nachos at 7-Eleven now.

Either that or that inferior "Miss Debbie" stuff.

Sad to say I grew up on junk food, the "real lunch" at high school was more than my lunch money would support, so it was a small milk and a Hostess product or two for me.
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RE: No More Twinkies!

Fri Nov 16, 2012 5:20 pm

Quoting DocLightning (Reply 13):
So what is your answer to the fact that the company has been in CH 11 twice in ten years and yet they sell a ridiculously fast-selling product?

Is that also the fault of the union?

Hostess was in an extremely competitive business. We aren't talking about 80% margins and huge cash generation like in other businesses. I've worked in FMCG (with Nabisco), and margins are thin - very thin in the confectionery business. You can't just cease revenue generation for a week or two and expect that the company can just brush it off.

Quoting flipdewaf (Reply 14):
Surely thats just capitalism and they weren't strong enough to survive? You should be praising this as it will make everything stronger overall.

Generally you are right, but that is small comfort to the workers involved - particularly the ones who voted against the strike or were not part of that union.
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Tugger
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RE: No More Twinkies!

Fri Nov 16, 2012 5:21 pm

Quoting bjorn14 (Reply 16):
I'll miss the Donut Gems. Cherry Pies, Snowballs and Ding Dongs.

Don't worry, you won't. The brands will go on, perhaps even still under the name "Hostess". All the assets will be sold and some smart company will buy the already existing market and your favorites will go on as usual.

Tugg
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Starbuk7
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RE: No More Twinkies!

Fri Nov 16, 2012 5:51 pm

I bet that no one at the union offices has taken a pay cut or lost their jobs because of this, just the 18,500 hostess people.

What a nice thing for the union to do to that many people right before the holidays.
 
Kiwirob
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RE: No More Twinkies!

Fri Nov 16, 2012 6:04 pm

Quoting slider (Reply 12):
Welcome to Obama's Amerika, circa 2012.

Pretty sure this would have happened under a republican America as well.
 
Ken777
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RE: No More Twinkies!

Fri Nov 16, 2012 6:51 pm

Quoting KiwiRob (Reply 3):

Jesus I thought unions were supposed to protect jobs no lose them.

Then are. Yanks with employer nanny care can thank the unions for keeping those benefits going.

Quoting Dreadnought (Reply 4):
But the Bakery union say “No way” and decided on a strike rather than take a pay cut and reduced benefits.

They've been there before and have given up before. Maybe they were looking at the goodies that management was getting.  
Quoting Dreadnought (Reply 4):
I guess elections DO have consequences

They do, but the election was not related to Twinkies, or Hostess. We have a Hostess bakery and this city is about as red as you can get.

Quoting L-188 (Reply 9):

Yup another kill for orginized labor

As opposed to another kill by folks like Romney? Did you ever see the ad with the guy who was told to build a 30 foot stage, which was used the next day to tell the workers that the plant was closing and that they were fired? Guy talking about building their own coffin - thanks to Romney.

Quoting Dreadnought (Reply 11):
Anyone care to bet that if Hostess' workers represented themselves (selected spokesmen, negotiators and leaders from among their own employees) that Hostess would still be around?

If they represented themselves then they would be working for minimum wage with zero benefits.

Maybe if we had a minimum wage that was above the poverty like (and a national public health care program) the need to protect workers would diminish.
 
727LOVER
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RE: No More Twinkies!

Fri Nov 16, 2012 7:10 pm

Bad timing since two states just legalized marijuana!
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casinterest
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RE: No More Twinkies!

Fri Nov 16, 2012 7:12 pm

There has been great disturbance in the force, I must go make sure my Funyons and Cheetos are still safe.
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Kiwirob
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RE: No More Twinkies!

Fri Nov 16, 2012 7:18 pm

Quoting 727LOVER (Reply 23):
Bad timing since two states just legalized marijuana!

Smartest thing that ever happened in the US in my lifetime.
 
srbmod
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RE: No More Twinkies!

Fri Nov 16, 2012 7:33 pm

There's more than enough value in the brand portfolio of Hostess to resurrect the company or for someone to buy them out. They'll end up in the hands of either some private equity firm or sold to a company within the industry. I'm thinking either Flowers Foods or McKee Foods [Who makes Little Debbies], as I don't see Bimbo Bakeries USA getting the approval to acquire any Hostess assets as Bimbo is the #1 company in the industry and only last year acquired the #3 company to further strengthen their #1 position.

The union in question represents a little over a third of the employees at Hostess and it appears that Hostess management knew that they would never get the requested concessions from them so instead of dragging the demise of the company out, they gave them a date to agree by and when that didn't happen, they shut the doors.

Whether you like unions or not, when one union agrees to concessions only to see another union group within the company refuse to them and costing everyone their jobs, that's just not right nor is it fair and unfairly paints all unions in a negative light.

Hey Hostess could have given all of them the finger and moved production to Mexico......
 
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Dreadnought
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RE: No More Twinkies!

Fri Nov 16, 2012 7:54 pm

Quoting Ken777 (Reply 22):
They do, but the election was not related to Twinkies, or Hostess. We have a Hostess bakery and this city is about as red as you can get.

I was talking about the union elections, where A) they gave negotiation rights to an outside firm, with their own agenda, and B) where they voted 92% to reject the contract proposals.

Quoting Ken777 (Reply 22):
If they represented themselves then they would be working for minimum wage with zero benefits.

You have absolutely no basis for that conclusion. Tell me, what benefit did the outside firm bring to the table?
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Geezer
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RE: No More Twinkies!

Fri Nov 16, 2012 8:06 pm

Quoting KiwiRob (Reply 3):
Jesus I thought unions were supposed to protect jobs no lose them.

They definitely ARE Rob;

Quoting Dreadnought (Reply 4):
I guess elections DO have consequences....92% voted to reject the contract....100% now out of work. I bet those Teamsters drivers are happy with the Bakery union tonight.

Having been a dues paying member of the Teamsters for 41 years, here's my "best guess"; 18,000 union members who are now out of work will ALL be "greatly pissed"; (a few more than others) it's that FEW you need to "keep your eye on" if you're a member of Bakery Workers Union; I won't be surprised if we start seeing stories about Bakery Workers with bloody heads.

Quoting Nitrohelper (Reply 7):
Some other bakers will purchase parts of the company - Twinkies will survive along with some of the other best sellers...
Probably will be made by non-union workers...

Bingo ! You hit the nail right on the head, Nitrohelper ! That's EXACTLY what will happen.

Quoting slider (Reply 12):
Funniest Tweet I read on the matter--- "Parasites always kill their Host(ess)"....

You know, I keep on hearing about "Twitter"; I've never logged onto it; if they have stuff that clever often, maybe I'd better take a look ?

Quoting slider (Reply 12):
Too true. Once again, a death knell for unions. Hostess will have their assets purchased, the recipe for Twinkies and all that stuff will continue and 18,000 people are now out of a job. Welcome to Obama's Amerika, circa 2012.

Another accurate post; that's exactly what will happen, however, in all fairness, in this case............it's NOT all Obama's fault. Sure, I know Obama is "in bed" with more than one union boss, and I KNOW all of said bosses are telling their members to "VOTE DEMOCRAT !", but it's a little more complicated than that. ( the Unions have ALWAYS told their member to "vote democrat"...........until Bobby Kennedy double-crossed the mob, and the Teamsters started telling members to vote Republican for a few years. So if you're a union member.......forget about what the damned union tells you to do.........forget about "what's good for the union, and what's good for you.........worry about what's good for the COUNTRY; ( because in the end, that's the ONLY place you have to live in)
( unless you're Mayor Bloomberg; I hear he has a "place" somewhere else ) (lucky him)

First, the idea of having a union to "represent" and "look out for" the members is a VERY WORTHY "idea"; but like all great ideas, "the devil is in the details" as they say; like all workers, union workers ALL want to make more money, have better working conditions, and have more job security; (who doesn't ?) The problem is, this only works in a "perfect world"; as most intelligent people are aware, we DON"T live in a "perfect world";

So how does a union "work", anyway ? I only feel highly qualified to say a lot about the union I paid dues to for 41 years........The Brotherhood of Teamsters. I have known THOUSANDS of teamster members over the years; but I have only seen pathetically FEW who were "interested enough" to make the slightest attempt to take a HARD, COLD LOOK at the organization they are sending their dues to, month after month, year after year; it's called "apathy"; if you don't pay attention to who's "handling the money", pretty soon, THEY aren't "looking out" for YOU, they're "looking out" for THEM ! And the Teamsters Union is the classic example of WHY unions ALWAYS "run amuck" !

Early on, we elected Jimmy Hoffa to "lead" the Teamsters; Hoffa came to Cincinnati once while I was in Local 100, made a fantastic speech at Music Hall to a packed house; he talked one-on-one to EVERY member who wanted to talk to him; (quite unlike any other Teamster General President, before or since) Hoffa was almost certainly the most qualified man to run a union who ever lived ! He was smart as a whip, he really CARED about the members, and there never has been, never will be, a tougher guy to negotiate with the "schmucks" who ALWAYS have, ALWAYS will, run the trucking companies. The only problem was, like ALL tough guys who get unlimited power, he let it go "straight to his head", (that was just mistake No.1) Fatal mistake No.2 was when he decided to "get in bed" with THE MOB, and that led to MANY things, NONE of which were good for the "rank and file" (as they are so fond of calling the membership.) A LOT of people "at the top" got very rich", many many new casinos "sprang up" in Las Vegas, (every single one of which was bought and paid for out of OUR pension fund, and in the "end" , (just like ALWAYS happens) Jimmy Hoffa got DEAD ! ( you deal with the devil, you pay the price.......every time)

Now.........here's what a lot of people apparently fail to comprehend; the exact same "forces" which wrecked the Teamsters Union didn't just stop there and "go away" ! Those same "forces" have been with mankind from the very beginning, and they will BE with us until the end ! I'm speaking about GREED, APATHY, (don't worry about it, someone else will take care of it) LUST for POWER, LUST for MONEY............(the list goes on and on) Hey.....I'm NOT a preacher; I don't even go to to church; but I have been watching the people in this world for 80 years now, and they ALWAYS have, and they ALWAYS will...........do the exact same things; the people at the top will ALWAYS steal from the people at the bottom; (whether they are at the "top" of the U.S. Government, the securities industry (Wall Street), the health care industry, you name it; it's human nature ! it's there, in your genes, when you're born; and unless something happens to "influence your mind" to stay on the "straight and narrow", there's a 95% chance even YOU will do the same things that ruined Jimmy Hoffa...........unless someone is keeping a very close track of what you're doing............(assuming of course, if you ever rise to a position of power, which seems to be the main "trigger" in this process.)

No, I really don't think I'm smart; (but I AM the most CURIOUS guy who ever became a Teamster ); curious enough, I took the trouble to see what was going on "at the top"; a hell of a lot of the very same things are currently still "going on" at "the top"............(in our Congress, in our Executive Branch, and for all I know, maybe even in our Judicial Branch)

(and please forgive me if I wandered off topic at all )

Charley
Stupidity: Doing the same thing over and over again and expecting a different result; Albert Einstein
 
Silver1SWA
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RE: No More Twinkies!

Fri Nov 16, 2012 8:43 pm

So twitter is full of reports of empty store shelves as everyone makes a mad dash for one last Twinkie. These fools just don't get it. The Twinkie will live on, dammit!!   
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Revelation
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RE: No More Twinkies!

Fri Nov 16, 2012 9:38 pm

Quoting 727LOVER (Reply 23):
Bad timing since two states just legalized marijuana!

Yeah, total buzz kill!

Quoting casinterest (Reply 24):
There has been great disturbance in the force, I must go make sure my Funyons and Cheetos are still safe.

Indeed. I just checked, and it seems Kellog's Pop Tarts are ok so far.

Quoting srbmod (Reply 26):
Hey Hostess could have given all of them the finger and moved production to Mexico......

Given how much preservatives are in the Hostess products, they could move production to China and ship them in via container ship!
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Geezer
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RE: No More Twinkies!

Fri Nov 16, 2012 11:24 pm

Quoting Ken777 (Reply 22):
If they represented themselves then they would be working for minimum wage with zero benefits.

Maybe if we had a minimum wage that was above the poverty like (and a national public health care program) the need to protect workers would diminish.



A "minimum wage" above the poverty line........." following that line of "reasoning" to it's logical conclusion...........why not just have a "minimum wage" the says all "workers" will be paid $100,000 per year; THEN all of these so-called "poor people" wouldn't have to worry so much about how "poor" they are ! They could all buy a big fine house, big fine Cadillac, giant TV, and live "the good life" ! (like all those "rich folks" (like Mitt Romney) that oughta pay MORE taxes! )

On the other hand...........I have a MUCH better idea ! How about just SCRAPPING the minimum wage laws altogether, leave the free market the hell alone, and let the law of supply and demand take care of EVERYTHING !

Here's an even BETTER idea than that..............what we "shoulda done" ( it's too late now ), we "shoulda" made Milton Friedman president, (while we still had him), then had him draw up detailed instructions for the management of the country for the next hundred years or so, and we wouldn't have to "suffer through" all of this BS very 4 years, and the country would still be doing JUST FINE !

Why does everyone just assume these snotty-nosed kids at McDonald's "need" a 2 dollar an hour "raise", when about half of them don't have enough sense to tie their own shoes ? Hold It...........I'm NOT talking about all of the GREAT young kids who work at McD's, (and all of the great A.net members, (who I'm SURE were dynamite employees when THEY were at McD's). I'm talking about this "new breed"...........(the one's who just stand and give you a blank stare when you order a coke, (and they say "ya wan nuts ?) Oh........I almost forgot..........NOW you want to GIVE them health care ? In case they O.D.? get knocked up ? Guess what: (true story, BTW) Right now, every time Miss A and I go to McD's, the tab is ALWAYS $16, $17, $18; ( for what ?) Every time we go to Ryan's in Terre Haute, (after 1PM and before 4PM, we GORGE on best green beans in Indiana, ditto mac & cheese, ditto fresh spinach, ditto ice cream, plus coconut creme pie, plus great coffee, AND.........about 4 lbs between us, of GREAT sirloin steak.............all for the princely sum of..........$ 11.55 ! ( and you STILL think it's OK for McD's to have to raise prices on their "average burgers" ? ) My next question is.........who's gonna give all the afore-mentioned snotty-noses a job, after Ronald McDonald becomes extinct ?

Charley
Stupidity: Doing the same thing over and over again and expecting a different result; Albert Einstein
 
aloges
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RE: No More Twinkies!

Fri Nov 16, 2012 11:24 pm

Quoting Revelation (Reply 30):
Given how much preservatives are in the Hostess products, they could move production to China and ship them in via container ship!

Hmm... wouldn't it be even more economical to dump them in the sea off the Japanese coast and wait for them to float across the ocean?   
Don't cry because it's over, smile because it happened.
 
Ken777
Posts: 9061
Joined: Thu Mar 11, 2004 5:39 am

RE: No More Twinkies!

Sat Nov 17, 2012 12:01 am

Quoting Dreadnought (Reply 27):
Tell me, what benefit did the outside firm bring to the table?

Higher wages & benefits than the company would have paid otherwise.

BTW, it doesn't seem that the company is managed very well - two previous filings in the last 10 years.

Blame it on the unions all you want, looks like management has been a dog for a decade.

Quoting Geezer (Reply 28):
So how does a union "work", anyway ?

Ask the various airline companies.

Quoting Geezer (Reply 31):
A "minimum wage" above the poverty line........." following that line of "reasoning" to it's logical conclusion...........why not just have a "minimum wage" the says all "workers" will be paid $100,000 per year;



At some point in the future $100K will be the poverty line, but not for a while.

Quoting Geezer (Reply 31):
On the other hand...........I have a MUCH better idea ! How about just SCRAPPING the minimum wage laws altogether, leave the free market the hell alone, and let the law of supply and demand take care of EVERYTHING

Anytime you have an employer paying below the poverty line you have various federal & state programs making up the difference. Stuff like Food Stamps and Medicaid.

I call that Corporate Welfare. Might be your cuppa tea, but it sure isn't mine.
 
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Dreadnought
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RE: No More Twinkies!

Sat Nov 17, 2012 12:35 am

Quoting Ken777 (Reply 33):
Higher wages & benefits than the company would have paid otherwise.

Oh yeah, $0 is so good.

Quoting Ken777 (Reply 33):
Quoting Geezer (Reply 31):
A "minimum wage" above the poverty line........." following that line of "reasoning" to it's logical conclusion...........why not just have a "minimum wage" the says all "workers" will be paid $100,000 per year;



At some point in the future $100K will be the poverty line, but not for a while.

And when $100K becomes minimum wage (Which works out to around $50 per hour), guess what happens to all the labor-intesive goods and services that you enjoy now?

Paying someone to mow your yard will cost $100. A McDonalds Happy meal will cost maybe $30. Mechanics will charge $1000 per hour to work on your car.

That will be fun.

Look, you want people at the bottom to get a better wage without triggering inflation? The way you do that is to reduce the number of people who compete for low-wage, low-skill jobs. The easiest way to do that in the short and medium term is to shut down the border to illegal immigration, and better yet, make it impossible for illegals already here to find a job, so that they go home on their own. That's guaranteed to result in such jobs popping up to $10-$20 per hour. A few things might go up in price (like vegetables) but you should not get the widespread inflation you would have if you simply mandated a minimum wage.
Forget dogs and cats - Spay and neuter your liberals.
 
ltbewr
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RE: No More Twinkies!

Sat Nov 17, 2012 12:59 am

Most likely Bimbo Baking of Mexico, which bought up a number of regional bakery brands in the USA as well as selling products made in the USA under the Bimbo brand mainly in markets with significant Mexican immigrants will buy parts of the former Hostess. They tried to buy the company or parts of it before several years ago but apparently some issues, including anti-trust conflicts, ending that bid.

Why did Hostess fail? It isn't just the pay and bennies of union workers, but mainly lousy products people won't buy as they used to and high costs.
Their lead bread product, "Wonder Bread' is chemical loaded phony junk food that is a joke. Wonder brand bread can't compete on price vs. supermarket house brand basic bread as well as the shift by consumers to similarly priced and far more healthier product from in-supermarket baked bread and of competitors.
The 'Twinkies' and similar unhealthy junk foods have are facing overall lower demand. If one wants any 'dessert' items consumers have shifted to better made products including once again from supermarket in-house and local bakeries.
They probably had too many bakery facilities in a declining market in high labor, energy and taxation locations while competitors probably shifted production to more distant locations with lower costs, including in places with low Union involvement contributed as well.

As to the Teamsters, many who drive large trucks should have little trouble getting jobs as truck drivers with the licenses and good experience are in major demand. The bakery workers themselves may have deep problems ever getting a like paying job again, but the cuts they were facing were putting them in not much better positions. I feel sorry for those who were only a few years from retirement or retirees who may see major cuts in their pensions.
 
sw733
Posts: 5306
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RE: No More Twinkies!

Sat Nov 17, 2012 1:04 am

Quoting ltbewr (Reply 35):

I can't wait for a Bimbo Twinkie!!  
 
srbmod
Posts: 15446
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RE: No More Twinkies!

Sat Nov 17, 2012 2:07 am

Quoting ltbewr (Reply 35):
Most likely Bimbo Baking of Mexico, which bought up a number of regional bakery brands in the USA as well as selling products made in the USA under the Bimbo brand mainly in markets with significant Mexican immigrants will buy parts of the former Hostess. They tried to buy the company or parts of it before several years ago but apparently some issues, including anti-trust conflicts, ending that bid.

I highly doubt that Federal regulators would allow them to acquire any Hostess Brand assets considering Bimbo Baking USA is the #1 company in that market and last year acquired the #3 company, Sara Lee, and the combined company is twice as large as the #2 company, Flowers Foods.
 
johns624
Posts: 1239
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RE: No More Twinkies!

Sat Nov 17, 2012 4:04 am

Eveerybody is concentrating on Twinkies but a major part was Wonder Bread. who eats white bread anymore? Everybody is into wheat and rye. Also, many people are trying to eat healthier. Who eats Twinkies and Ho-Ho's anymore? Sounds like bad management living on their laurels. Just like Pan-Am, they needed to change and didn't.
 
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EA CO AS
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RE: No More Twinkies!

Sat Nov 17, 2012 4:19 am

Quoting DocLightning (Reply 13):
the company has been in CH 11 twice in ten years and yet they sell a ridiculously fast-selling product?

  

Consumption of these products has been falling like a rock due to more health-conscious decisions by consumers.
"In this present crisis, government is not the solution to our problem - government IS the problem." - Ronald Reagan

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Revelation
Posts: 13989
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RE: No More Twinkies!

Sat Nov 17, 2012 4:21 am

Twinkies are such a part of our culture.
Here's a Twinkies joke:

A young girl walks into a barber shop, eating Twinkies.
The barber begins to cut her hair.
He says, "Hey, you're getting hair on your Twinkies!"
She says, "Yeah, and my boobs are growing in too!"
Inspiration, move me brightly! Light the song with sense and color.
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seb146
Posts: 14044
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RE: No More Twinkies!

Sat Nov 17, 2012 4:34 am

Just before the Mayan calender ends.

Well played, Mayans. Well played.
Patriotic and Proud Liberal
 
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zippyjet
Posts: 5089
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RE: No More Twinkies!

Sat Nov 17, 2012 5:23 am

OMG! holy SH*T this is it the apocalypse/end days are already getting underway. Quick sheeple hoard those funky goodies chock full of chemicals I can't spell or pronounce that will make your poop glow in the dark. Hunker down in shelters with your purloined Twinkies and Ho Ho's. You can also use their white bread for anal/genital hygiene when your TP runs out!. Stick a fork in it peeps, we are done.
Here at A-Net in Non Av we can now start T vs. Kb> threads that is Twinkies vs. Krimpets or Ho Hos!     

I wonder if people will suceede from the United States to form a nation of Twinkies?
I'm Zippyjet & I approve of this message!
 
seb146
Posts: 14044
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RE: No More Twinkies!

Sat Nov 17, 2012 6:20 am

For some of us, no more twinkies is a good thing. Doc knows what I am talking about.

tryin' to lighten the mood....
Patriotic and Proud Liberal
 
QFA380
Posts: 2013
Joined: Fri Jul 22, 2005 4:38 pm

RE: No More Twinkies!

Sat Nov 17, 2012 10:29 am

Quoting seb146 (Reply 43):
For some of us, no more twinkies is a good thing.


Gummi Bears for your confectionary needs?
 
Superfly
Posts: 37735
Joined: Thu May 11, 2000 8:01 am

RE: No More Twinkies!

Sat Nov 17, 2012 4:20 pm

Will they get a bailout? Hostess is too big to fail....

Quoting Dreadnought (Reply 4):
the Bakery union say “No way” and decided on a strike rather than take a pay cut and reduced benefits.

But wait a minute. Wouldn't they be covered by Obamacare if they took a cut in benefits?   

Quoting 727LOVER (Reply 23):
Bad timing since two states just legalized marijuana!


  

Quoting seb146 (Reply 41):
Just before the Mayan calender ends.

Well played, Mayans. Well played.


So THAT's what the calendar was about.

Quoting johns624 (Reply 38):
Also, many people are trying to eat healthier. Who eats Twinkies and Ho-Ho's anymore? Sounds like bad management living on their laurels. Just like Pan-Am, they needed to change and didn't.


Interesting you say that. Back when Hostess was popular with kids some 30+ years ago, childhood obesity wasn't an issue. Today we're supposedly all health conscious and yet more people are overweight. Goes to show little has to do with diet. These kids need to get outside and play.
Bring back the Concorde
 
MD-90
Posts: 7835
Joined: Mon Jan 17, 2000 12:45 pm

RE: No More Twinkies!

Sat Nov 17, 2012 4:34 pm

Hostess was paying its workers 35% more than the national average. No wonder they couldn't stay in business.

http://www.thenewamerican.com/review...es-unions-and-the-death-of-hostess
 
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Dreadnought
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RE: No More Twinkies!

Sat Nov 17, 2012 4:53 pm

Quoting Ken777 (Reply 33):
Higher wages & benefits than the company would have paid otherwise.

BTW, it doesn't seem that the company is managed very well - two previous filings in the last 10 years.

Blame it on the unions all you want, looks like management has been a dog for a decade.

Just a bit more information. The deal that the Union turned down, and would have saved the company, included "wage, benefit and work rule concessions but also gave Hostess Brands' 12 unions a 25 percent ownership stake in the company, representation on its Board of Directors and $100 million in reorganized Hostess Brands' debt."

And as the MD-90's post shows, the wage concessions still kept them way over the national average for similar workers, would have been made back within 3 years.

Quoting ltbewr (Reply 35):
The bakery workers themselves may have deep problems ever getting a like paying job again, but the cuts they were facing were putting them in not much better positions. I feel sorry for those who were only a few years from retirement or retirees who may see major cuts in their pensions.

Sorry, but they (the 92% who voted against a very fair and generous deal considering the position of the company) did this to themselves. I have absolutely no pity for them. I do pity the 8%, and the ones who crossed the picket lines in the final days who were willing to do what they could to save their company.

I hope that whatever is left of the pension funds is given to the 8%. Let the 92% suck air. Their greed and avarice killed their employer. The irony is striking, given the usual union talking points.
Forget dogs and cats - Spay and neuter your liberals.
 
Ken777
Posts: 9061
Joined: Thu Mar 11, 2004 5:39 am

RE: No More Twinkies!

Sat Nov 17, 2012 5:21 pm

Quoting Dreadnought (Reply 34):
And when $100K becomes minimum wage (Which works out to around $50 per hour), guess what happens to all the labor-intesive goods and services that you enjoy now?

There is this thing called inflation.

My first car was a '68 BMW 2002 which was just over $3,000. Gas was about 32¢ a gallon.

A well made suit (say a 5 make) is up 10 fold.

And a dime was a nice tip when you helped ladies take groceries to their car.

It is reasonable to expect the minimum wage & poverty level to hit $100K. The poverty level will be the first to hit that level as conservatives will be working hard to keep minimum wage at a fraction of that level.

What you need to remember is that the wages will follow increases in pieces. COLA increases.
 
IMissPiedmont
Posts: 6200
Joined: Wed May 23, 2001 12:58 pm

RE: No More Twinkies!

Sat Nov 17, 2012 5:29 pm

And all this argument and bickering over a company that has probably already lined up a buyer. Not to mention, but I will, it is a company that makes products that are hardly important to the US economy. Now if we could just McDonalds to shut down we'd be getting somewhere.
The day you stop learning is the day you should die.

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