PHX787
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NHL Lockout Update PT 2: Talks To Resume Monday

Sun Nov 18, 2012 8:12 am

Old thread was archived.

Looks like according to ESPN, the talks are going to resume monday....

But that's just it. So far, it's all just talking and talking, with very little ACTUALLY getting done.

An analyst I saw on ESPN a few days back suggested that the entire 2012/2013 season is going to be scrapped, because there's no way that the Bettman leadership and the NHLPA higher-ups are ever going to agree on anything.

Let's look at some history here- the 04/05 lockout ended in July 05 with a hastily drawn up contract in order to avoid another lockout for 05/06. If that contract wasn't drawn up and if the pressure from the stadium owners, cities, and fans didn't mount as much as it did then, we can probably say that the NHL would still be in the same lockout it was in 2004, and that we would probably have a completely new hockey league.

Seriously, there has got to be changes, but what can happen, and what can we, the fans, do?

In my opinions- one- Bettman has got to go. I know it's not 100% his fault but his leadership is trash.
two- the NHLPA needs a restructuring, and THEY need education on how to actually spend money, and mental training on the value of the dollar. These players are making millions and they're squabbling over percentages!

three- both the NHLPA and Bettman need to realize that fans are first. NOT them. FANS are the reason why they have money in the first place. I wish the two parties would have learned this back in 2004.

Rant over    Your thoughts?
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FlyKev
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RE: NHL Lockout Update PT 2: Talks To Resume Monday

Sun Nov 18, 2012 1:53 pm

I think Bettman is just a figurehead to be honest and that even if he was to go, there is no reasoning as to why this same problem will not rear its ugly head in future years.
I am not saying I am on Bettmans side but I do feel he gets more negativity than he is due, especially when you take a look at how awkward the NHLPA has been so far. I dislike Fehr's attitude immensely and also Jeremy Jacobs I feel is not helping things progress.

As I was saying to one of my mates earlier actually, I am surprised at how far into November we have gotten without the NHL cancelling Decembers games; and whilst I am sure they will be cancelled soon I find it interesting how the league has not done so yet - a small ray of hope perhaps?

I think everyone would have been better off if they had taken the pretty decent 50/50 offer set up a little while back however we are now well passed that. Quite frankly now I just want both sides to sign something and I don't care what so I can go back to watching NHL hockey.

Feels that the talent doesn't really care about the game or the fans else this whole mess would have been avoided.

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RE: NHL Lockout Update PT 2: Talks To Resume Monday

Sun Nov 18, 2012 3:02 pm

Quoting PHX787 (Thread starter):
Looks like according to ESPN, the talks are going to resume monday....

Pretty sad to go to ESPN's NHL page and have the lead article be about a video game!

Quoting PHX787 (Thread starter):
we would probably have a completely new hockey league

As long as you have the same owners making the same silly decisions time and again, the NHL will always be a weak league. The season's too long (they can't even keep the ice frozen in the Stanley Cup), there are too many teams, some of the markets they are in just make no sense at all (so why grant franchises you know are going to fail?) and on and on it goes.

I like hockey a lot, but face it, the current set of owners have pushed it past the breaking point. They just can't discipline themselves.

I read that one of the negotiating points is about who is going to pay for the lockout - what? If you lock someone out, it's all on you!
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RE: NHL Lockout Update PT 2: Talks To Resume Monday

Sun Nov 18, 2012 3:19 pm

This whole setup seems to be a terrible way to run a professional sport.
 
WestJet747
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RE: NHL Lockout Update PT 2: Talks To Resume Monday

Sun Nov 18, 2012 4:19 pm

My thoughts? I would tell you what my thoughts on Donald Fehr are, but when I was a child my mother always told me "If you don't have anything nice to say, don't say it at all".

Quoting PHX787 (Thread starter):
In my opinions- one- Bettman has got to go. I know it's not 100% his fault but his leadership is trash.

If I had to get rid of anyone in the NHL leadership, it would be Bill Daly. He's as much as fault as Bettman is, yet he seems to bring little value to the league, Bettman at least makes people money.

Quoting PHX787 (Thread starter):
two- the NHLPA needs a restructuring, and THEY need education on how to actually spend money, and mental training on the value of the dollar. These players are making millions and they're squabbling over percentages!

         But as I've said in every other thread: This union shouldn't even exist.

Quoting Revelation (Reply 2):
I like hockey a lot, but face it, the current set of owners have pushed it past the breaking point. They just can't discipline themselves.

I generally agree with that statement, although we can't paint all the owners with the same brush. Some owners are worse than others unfortunately, which I think goes for every sport.
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RE: NHL Lockout Update PT 2: Talks To Resume Monday

Mon Nov 19, 2012 12:21 am

Quoting flykev (Reply 1):
I am not saying I am on Bettmans side but I do feel he gets more negativity than he is due, especially when you take a look at how awkward the NHLPA has been so far.

He is doing the bidding of the owners and that is his job.

Quoting PHX787 (Thread starter):
Seriously, there has got to be changes, but what can happen, and what can we, the fans, do?

Nothing while the season is going on but when it comes back we don't go.

The biggest change is that both sides should be locked in a room until a deal is reached, they can be fed allowed to use the bathroom etc. but they stay in the NHL offices until this deal is reached.

Also if you are really against the union then get the NHL to bring in replacement players which is what the NFL would have done last year if their lockout lasted into the season and did it this year with the refs. Enough players will cross the picket line if that is done.
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WestJet747
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RE: NHL Lockout Update PT 2: Talks To Resume Monday

Mon Nov 19, 2012 12:51 am

Quoting StarAC17 (Reply 5):
Also if you are really against the union then get the NHL to bring in replacement players which is what the NFL would have done last year if their lockout lasted into the season and did it this year with the refs. Enough players will cross the picket line if that is done.

I'm 100% for this. This million-dollar union nonsense is getting out of hand. Plus I'm sure we would see less players jumping ship to the KHL.

It would also be a great opportunity for some amateur players to get seen.
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RE: NHL Lockout Update PT 2: Talks To Resume Monday

Mon Nov 19, 2012 3:06 am

Quoting Revelation (Reply 2):
As long as you have the same owners making the same silly decisions time and again, the NHL will always be a weak league

Sadly the case  
Quoting moo (Reply 3):
This whole setup seems to be a terrible way to run a professional sport.

Well, sadly, it is the way all pro sports in the US are run, seems like.

Quoting WestJet747 (Reply 4):
But as I've said in every other thread: This union shouldn't even exist.

Yeah I agree, as I said. I'm not sure how this is going to actually work. it's not about anti-union; the only thing I feasibly see the union being useful for is protecting the players from injury.

Quoting WestJet747 (Reply 6):
I'm 100% for this. This million-dollar union nonsense is getting out of hand. Plus I'm sure we would see less players jumping ship to the KHL.

It would also be a great opportunity for some amateur players to get seen.

I agree with that proposal, but will it actually happen? Who knows  
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RE: NHL Lockout Update PT 2: Talks To Resume Monday

Mon Nov 19, 2012 6:41 pm

Quoting PHX787 (Thread starter):
Let's look at some history here- the 04/05 lockout ended in July 05 with a hastily drawn up contract in order to avoid another lockout for 05/06.

Sad thing about that strike was that hockey was about to experience a breakthrough in popularity. They still had a television contract with a major network, major league basketball was experiencing labor issues and it seemed they were higher up on the casual fan's interest meter. The work stoppage killed any good buzz they had at the time. This time is different as the national interest level is down for the casual fan.

Quoting StarAC17 (Reply 5):
Also if you are really against the union then get the NHL to bring in replacement players which is what the NFL would have done last year if their lockout lasted into the season and did it this year with the refs. Enough players will cross the picket line if that is done.

Actually, over the years, I believe I've enjoyed attending minor league games more so that NHL events. Lower prices, easier to find good seats and decent level of play.
 
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RE: NHL Lockout Update PT 2: Talks To Resume Monday

Mon Nov 19, 2012 7:03 pm

Hopefully they can get something together to salvage the season. Both sides are being incredibly childish and greedy. Somebody should have taught them to share when they were little. I wash hoping to go to a Rangers game in December. Even if they do fix it I'm not sure I want to give my money to a league that has no interests in keeping their fans happy.
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PHX787
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RE: NHL Lockout Update PT 2: Talks To Resume Monday

Mon Nov 19, 2012 8:47 pm

Quoting txjim (Reply 8):
The work stoppage killed any good buzz they had at the time.

Yeah exactly. The buzz from last year's amazing season is again killed, and it's going to cause major financial and emotional strain on a number of small market teams.

Quoting txjim (Reply 8):
Actually, over the years, I believe I've enjoyed attending minor league games more so that NHL events. Lower prices, easier to find good seats and decent level of play.

In 08 or 09, i forget when, I went to the Kelly Cup Final game in Cincinnati, and watched the Cyclones win it....all for $20! Front row goal line seats, the action was right in front of me, and the post-game celebration happened right there in front of me. Best dang $20 I ever spent!

Quoting jetblueguy22 (Reply 9):
Both sides are being incredibly childish and greedy.

Agreed, which makes me wonder what kinds of outside intervention could occur in this case, if any.

My idea would be representatives from the Original 6 cities, plus representatives from 6 small market teams' cities, plus one from a medium market or new market, like Winnipeg, for example, sit down with the NHL and the NHLPA and mediate this whole childish mess.
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RE: NHL Lockout Update PT 2: Talks To Resume Monday

Tue Nov 20, 2012 4:43 pm

Quoting PHX787 (Thread starter):
but what can happen, and what can we, the fans, do?

Not much. That's the problem. We can always boycott the first matches of the season (in the arenas and on TV), to show that we were very unhappy with the lockout. It's not going to change their lives, but it will show them something at least.

Or, as I said previously, we should create the NHLFA in order to have an "official" channel of communication from the fans, be allowed to express our anger or, why not, participate to the negociations.

Quoting Revelation (Reply 2):
there are too many teams

   I'm sure the NHL would do just fine with 2 or 4 teams less. It would make also the league more competitive.

Quoting jetblueguy22 (Reply 9):
Both sides are being incredibly childish and greedy

True that. It's become even pathetic.
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RE: NHL Lockout Update PT 2: Talks To Resume Monday

Tue Nov 20, 2012 4:46 pm

Quoting PHX787 (Thread starter):
Seriously, there has got to be changes, but what can happen, and what can we, the fans, do?

The fans will go right back like an abused housewife as if nothing ever happened, shelling out ever more money for the same overpaid players/owners in a monopoly industry, and the cycle will continue
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RE: NHL Lockout Update PT 2: Talks To Resume Monday

Tue Nov 20, 2012 8:07 pm

As a Canadian, hockey is like religion to me. However, given the serial short-sightedness of both parties in the several labour disputes over the past twenty or so years, I'm near the point where I no longer care. I can watch junior or minor league hockey. I can do other things: symphony, theater, for example. There's always somewhere else to spend your $$$, and both the league and the PA should realise that, since the NHL is still largely gate-driven.
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RE: NHL Lockout Update PT 2: Talks To Resume Monday

Tue Nov 20, 2012 9:07 pm

I guess I'm having a hard time understanding the above.

I presume there was a contract that both parties signed, no?

A lockout is by definition where management refuses to honor the contract, no?

So why is this the player's fault?

If management can't honor a contract they signed, shouldn't they reorganize under bankruptcy laws that exist in both the US and Canada?
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WestJet747
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RE: NHL Lockout Update PT 2: Talks To Resume Monday

Tue Nov 20, 2012 11:16 pm

Quoting Revelation (Reply 14):
I presume there was a contract that both parties signed, no?

The only contract is the Collective Bargaining Agreement (CBA), which has expired.

Quoting Revelation (Reply 14):
A lockout is by definition where management refuses to honor the contract, no?

Not quite. A lockout is a form of job action (contract or not) whereby the management/firm refuse to admit employees. The idea being that causing this inconvenience will force the membership to accept certain terms in order to broker a favourable deal for management.

The NHLPA isn't going for anything the NHL puts on the table, so the NHL says "no games til you do".

Quoting Revelation (Reply 14):
So why is this the player's fault?

Because the fact that a union whose membership averages $2 million in pay per year actually exists is a gross injustice to the idea of a union in the first place. Further to that, this union whose membership commands an average wage 50 times that of the average Canadian, actually has the gall to demand more money for doing equal work to what they were doing under the previous contract.

I'm completely oversimplifying here, but that's my general gripe with the PA.
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RE: NHL Lockout Update PT 2: Talks To Resume Monday

Tue Nov 20, 2012 11:51 pm

Quoting StarAC17 (Reply 5):
Also if you are really against the union then get the NHL to bring in replacement players which is what the NFL would have done last year if their lockout lasted into the season and did it this year with the refs. Enough players will cross the picket line if that is done.

I doubt it. Didn't happen in baseball in 1994, unlikely to happen in the NHL. And the players crossing the line would be blacklisted in the future.

Remember that the owners locked out the players here. The players offered to continue playing under the previous contract as they worked on a deal. The owners rejected that. So now we're in this mess. Players make way too much, sure. So do owners. But the biggest problem is the boneheaded deals owners give to players. So now they are looking to renege on or restructure multiple contracts that they handed out and now regret. Too bad. If you're an owner and you're in trouble you only have yourself to blame. NHL-quality players are a scarce commodity. But the market is pure capitalism in action: you get to pay a person solely for the quality of work you expect while in a competitive market (29 or so other NHL teams plus potentially KHL or other international leagues entering the bidding).

The way some of the owners and GMs spend their money does make me question their sanity and begs the question of whether they are qualified to run a McDonald's restaurant, much less a multi-million dollar sports franchise.

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RE: NHL Lockout Update PT 2: Talks To Resume Monday

Wed Nov 21, 2012 3:14 am

Quoting WestJet747 (Reply 15):
The only contract is the Collective Bargaining Agreement (CBA), which has expired.

Thanks for that explanation and all the others too.

Quoting WestJet747 (Reply 15):
Because the fact that a union whose membership averages $2 million in pay per year actually exists is a gross injustice to the idea of a union in the first place. Further to that, this union whose membership commands an average wage 50 times that of the average Canadian, actually has the gall to demand more money for doing equal work to what they were doing under the previous contract.

That's a pretty strident opinion, which of course you are entitled to.

Mine's different, because I became a sports fan before the era before free agency in any US sport, where players were basically the owner's beotches. Talk of splitting the revenue 50/50 with the players would have been laughable then. Owners controlled every aspect of the player's career from the minor leagues till they retired.

This article doesn't really do him justice, but you might want to read about Marvin Miller and the changes before, during and after his career.

Personally, I feel that power has shifted too much to the players, but as Texan points out, a lot of that is because the owners can't discipline themselves and they decided to fight the players as well as each other rather than come up with a framework that would be best for the sport as a whole.

IMHO the NFL did a great job of creating such a framework, but their owners had the luxury of seeing what Marvin Miller and the MLBPA could achieve to convince them such a framework was needed.

To me the other sports have failed at some of the basic things needed to keep the game competitive, mostly due to owner's greed and the lack the foresight needed to have such a framework. These things include too long a season with too many meaningless games, and too many playoff games (both because owners thought it'd make for some good paydays for them), and too many teams which just weakens the talent base and ends up putting franchises in places that can't support them (also because the owners wanted the franchise fees that new teams pay).
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StarAC17
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RE: NHL Lockout Update PT 2: Talks To Resume Monday

Wed Nov 21, 2012 4:06 am

Quoting Revelation (Reply 14):
A lockout is by definition where management refuses to honor the contract, no?

Yes but in this case the contract did expire on Sept 15th. One has been happening more and more in all CBA negotiations is that both sides are using a strike or lockout as a method of first resort when it usually is that of last resort.

Quoting texan (Reply 16):
I doubt it. Didn't happen in baseball in 1994, unlikely to happen in the NHL. And the players crossing the line would be blacklisted in the future.

That was a strike, the players walked off the job and all agreed to not allow the 1994 season and World Series to happen. In a strike it is far less common for players to cross the line.

Just to say had last year's NFL lockout affected the camps and the season then there would have been replacement players used. It depends on the structure of the league and the NHL owners didn't have a plan for this where I'm sure the NFL did.

Quoting texan (Reply 16):
But the biggest problem is the boneheaded deals owners give to players. So now they are looking to renege on or restructure multiple contracts that they handed out and now regret. Too bad. If you're an owner and you're in trouble you only have yourself to blame.

This is one area I side with the union, they see this as a method to control themselves. It comes down to personal responsibility and if you sign 110 million 13 year contracts I don't have any sympathy for you.

Quoting Revelation (Reply 17):
To me the other sports have failed at some of the basic things needed to keep the game competitive, mostly due to owner's greed and the lack the foresight needed to have such a framework. These things include too long a season with too many meaningless games, and too many playoff games (both because owners thought it'd make for some good paydays for them), and too many teams which just weakens the talent base and ends up putting franchises in places that can't support them (also because the owners wanted the franchise fees that new teams pay).

Regarding the NHL at least 4-6 teams need to fold and two need to move back to Canada. The league cannot support 30 teams and would be best with 24-26 and in a game as physical as hockey the seasons should be dropped to about 70 games. Bonuses here would be teams in markets that can support them, better talent pool and healthier players.
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RE: NHL Lockout Update PT 2: Talks To Resume Monday

Wed Nov 21, 2012 4:15 am

Quoting StarAC17 (Reply 18):
Regarding the NHL at least 4-6 teams need to fold and two need to move back to Canada. The league cannot support 30 teams and would be best with 24-26 and in a game as physical as hockey the seasons should be dropped to about 70 games. Bonuses here would be teams in markets that can support them, better talent pool and healthier players.

Agree totally, however, I can't see any feasible way for this to happen.

Hockey is a great sport to watch, especially live at the stadium. Unfortunately for it, a lot of the flow of the game, and the size, speed and skill of the players does not come out as well on TV as it does live, but it seems cameras are cheap enough now to capture a lot more of the action than was captured in earlier times.

The Stanley Cup finals can be as exiting an event as there is in all sports IMHO, and the ceremony at the end where the cup is awarded is one of the best in sports for its pure emotion, the victors and the vanquished both shaking hands. The act itself a testament to sportsmanship, IMHO.
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seb146
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RE: NHL Lockout Update PT 2: Talks To Resume Monday

Wed Nov 21, 2012 6:17 am

They should not start playing again until they agree that the Canucks WILL win the Cup!!
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RE: NHL Lockout Update PT 2: Talks To Resume Monday

Wed Nov 21, 2012 6:57 am

Quoting seb146 (Reply 20):

Boy I guess this lock out will last longer than expected . We all know the next cup winner will be the Wild  .
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RE: NHL Lockout Update PT 2: Talks To Resume Monday

Wed Nov 21, 2012 3:06 pm

Go Whale!

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RE: NHL Lockout Update PT 2: Talks To Resume Monday

Wed Nov 21, 2012 8:13 pm

This is the NHLPA's proposal. Fehr said it was "at the limit of the best they could offer".

http://espn.go.com/blog/nhl/post/_/i...29/complete-nhlpa-offer-to-the-nhl
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RE: NHL Lockout Update PT 2: Talks To Resume Monday

Wed Nov 21, 2012 8:21 pm

TSN reporter Darren Dreger's message on Twitter: "Close on rev sharing, but no contract concessions and league remains firm on $211 mil Make Whole. Talks will continue, but may not meet Thur"

RDS reporter Renaud Lavoie confirmed soon after that there will be no talks tomorrow. Actually, no talks are planned at all at this stage.

So, are we moving towards another season cancelled?
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jetblueguy22
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RE: NHL Lockout Update PT 2: Talks To Resume Monday

Wed Nov 21, 2012 8:24 pm

Quoting GrahamHill (Reply 23):
This is the NHLPA's proposal. Fehr said it was "at the limit of the best they could offer".

Yikes. The one thing in this whole fiasco I don't understand is the fact that they can pay these players less after they signed a contract. Take for example the Parise and Sutter contracts. Talk about big money. But the owners probably figured they would get to take a good what, 8% off of that? I know it is silly when you are talking about millions and millions but I'm not sure how somebody can sign a legal document and not comply. This whole thing is just nuts and needs to end. The fact that they are so far apart on a number is a terrible sign. I think that article pretty much ended my hope for a season. Unless the owners are in a good mood for the holiday.
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RE: NHL Lockout Update PT 2: Talks To Resume Monday

Wed Nov 21, 2012 9:59 pm

Quoting texan (Reply 16):
I doubt it. Didn't happen in baseball in 1994, unlikely to happen in the NHL. And the players crossing the line would be blacklisted in the future.

It was mentioned during the last Lockout by one of the owners of the Thrashers, Steve Belkin. He got fined for saying that the owners planned to use replacement players for the 2005-06 season if the NHLPA had not agreed to a new deal before that season. One of the many ways Atlanta Spirit endeared themselves to the NHL during their time owning the Thrashers.

With the minor league players of the AHL, ECHL and CHL represented by a union (Pro Hockey Players Association), there's no way they would play as replacement players. Now players in minor pro leagues like the Southern Professional Hockey League and Federal Hockey League and the semi-pro North American Hockey League in Quebec might since they are players that never really made it to the NHL or even the major minor leagues (ECHL, AHL, CHL) and this would be the only way for them to be in the NHL.

As for contraction, that was mentioned during the previous Lockout and there is no way that the NHLPA would sign off on it since it would be costing them player jobs in the NHL. Some have even mentioned expansion as opposed to contraction to put the NHL at 32 teams and making it easier to realign the divisions and conferences. These two expansion teams would likely be in Canadian markets (The GTA and Quebec City) and would result in a lot of $$$ in the pockets of the NHL owners as rumors are that such an expansion fee would be in the $500 million per team range and there's already an ownership group lined up in Quebec City that has deep pockets to pay such a fee.
 
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RE: NHL Lockout Update PT 2: Talks To Resume Monday

Thu Nov 22, 2012 5:20 am

Quoting WestJet747 (Reply 15):
Because the fact that a union whose membership averages $2 million in pay per year actually exists is a gross injustice to the idea of a union in the first place

   As stated above the only viable thing I see them doing is making sure players aren't injured or playing while still not fully recovered. Other than that, it's just greed. And I'm a republican, I hear about "greed" all the time   

Quoting srbmod (Reply 26):

It all just sounds like a bunch of bureaucratic nonsense to me.....to any of the players/owners potentially reading this, stop the monetary bickering, put the discrepancy funds to good use, like, improving the fan experience, and START PLAYING already   
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connies4ever
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RE: NHL Lockout Update PT 2: Talks To Resume Monday

Thu Nov 22, 2012 9:49 am

Quoting srbmod (Reply 26):
As for contraction, that was mentioned during the previous Lockout and there is no way that the NHLPA would sign off on it since it would be costing them player jobs in the NHL. Some have even mentioned expansion as opposed to contraction to put the NHL at 32 teams and making it easier to realign the divisions and conferences. These two expansion teams would likely be in Canadian markets (The GTA and Quebec City) and would result in a lot of $$$ in the pockets of the NHL owners as rumors are that such an expansion fee would be in the $500 million per team range and there's already an ownership group lined up in Quebec City that has deep pockets to pay such a fee.


Further expansion is the last thing the NHL needs:

1) talent pool just not there, including all of Canada, US, and Europe;
2) not enough viable markets.

A contraction to 28 teams would be a good first step. Problem is: who to delete ? From various media articles, it seems between them, Anaheim, Phoenix, Florida, and Islanders are losing around $70M/year. Devils also losing and I believe in bankruptcy. I think with Wang's new agreement with the Barclay Centre, Islanders are no longer a candidate to move to GTA. So delete two of the above and move the other two to Quebec and GTA.

More radical contraction, to 24 teams, would be a tougher nut to crack, but the on-ice product would be much better. I'd like to see Columbus' books, for one.
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PHX787
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RE: NHL Lockout Update PT 2: Talks To Resume Monday

Thu Nov 22, 2012 7:03 pm

Quoting connies4ever (Reply 28):
1) talent pool just not there, including all of Canada, US, and Europe;

Well think of it this way: how about expanding the juniors and the college hockey program to CREATE the talent?
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WrenchBender
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RE: NHL Lockout Update PT 2: Talks To Resume Monday

Fri Nov 23, 2012 1:44 am

Quoting PHX787 (Reply 29):
Well think of it this way: how about expanding the juniors and the college hockey program to CREATE the talent?

There will still be a shortage of talent gifted enough to play in the NHL. What needs to happen is reduce the league to 28 teams. 2 conferences of 14 split into 2 divisions of 7. Reduce the season to a 70 game schedule, Play home and away with every team twice, plus an additional home & away within your division. That way the fans will get to see the product they want and with a reduced season no whining from the players about travel AND they shouldn't be coasting not putting effort in during a regular season game.
I watch Junior A hockey on a regular basis, you never see anyone coasting in a Junior game. Where on several occasions I have been at NHL games only to see the "STARS" spend less than 15 minutes on the ice.
The NHL and the NHLPA need to get a grip and clean up their act before they win me back as a fan !

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jetblueguy22
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RE: NHL Lockout Update PT 2: Talks To Resume Monday

Fri Nov 23, 2012 5:07 am

Quoting PHX787 (Reply 29):
Well think of it this way: how about expanding the juniors and the college hockey program to CREATE the talent?

I think the biggest problem is just the cost. Growing up I used to love watching hockey. My mom was an executive secretary for the whalers so I got to meet a bunch of players, get autographs, etc. But I could never afford to actually play. A lot of sports are expensive equipment wise, and I understand this, but ice team can get crazy expensive. I would have loved to learn but for a standard middle class family it isn't a cheap proposition when baseball, flag football, soccer, etc are $100 for the season. Right now though I think there is plenty of talent. The only problem is they want to be compensated higher than their employers believe they should be. I certainly hope they can fix this, because the kids who can afford it are watching this, and wondering why their heroes are being so greedy.
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yooyoo
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RE: NHL Lockout Update PT 2: Talks To Resume Monday

Fri Nov 23, 2012 5:51 pm

"On pretty much every NHLPA conference call with the players in past weeks, there's been some discussion on the potential of decertification as an NHLPA strategic tool." as per Bob McKenzie.

and FYI.

2004-05 season was cancelled Feb. 16. just to give you a milestone of sorts.
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RE: NHL Lockout Update PT 2: Talks To Resume Monday

Fri Nov 23, 2012 7:54 pm

Quoting yooyoo (Reply 32):
2004-05 season was cancelled Feb. 16. just to give you a milestone of sorts.

Well as sad as this sounds at least we have some time before this milestone is hit.
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RE: NHL Lockout Update PT 2: Talks To Resume Monday

Fri Nov 23, 2012 8:10 pm

Unsurprisingly, the NHL has now cancelled all games until 14th December, as well as the All-Star game in Columbus.

http://www.nhl.com/ice/news.htm?id=646209&navid=DL|NHL|home
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RE: NHL Lockout Update PT 2: Talks To Resume Monday

Sat Nov 24, 2012 12:59 am

Quoting GrahamHill (Reply 34):
Unsurprisingly, the NHL has now cancelled all games until 14th December, as well as the All-Star game in Columbus.

  

Well this is detrimental for the Jackets program. They only got this thing in the first place because they've been struggling big time since 2009.

Guys, I have very little hope that we're going to get a season off this year. It's best we all just stick to rooting for the A, AA, and AAA teams. Or college hockey.

Go Redhawks  
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RE: NHL Lockout Update PT 2: Talks To Resume Monday

Mon Nov 26, 2012 3:04 pm

Quoting PHX787 (Reply 35):
It's best we all just stick to rooting for the A, AA, and AAA teams. Or college hockey.

That's what I did. With some friends, we went to see the McGill Redmen vs the Nipissing Lakers last Saturday. For 10 bucks each, we had an excellent hockey game (McGill won 4-3 after being led 3-1 in the third period) in a nice atmosphere. Of course, this is not the NHL level in the Bell Center but you "feel" the game more as you're seating two feet away from the ice  .

It was good hockey and we'll certainly go again!
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StarAC17
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RE: NHL Lockout Update PT 2: Talks To Resume Monday

Tue Nov 27, 2012 6:52 pm

Some good news on the lockout front, both parties look like they will agree to let this go to arbitration.

http://www.torontosun.com/2012/11/26...labour-talks-will-resume-this-week
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RE: NHL Lockout Update PT 2: Talks To Resume Monday

Wed Nov 28, 2012 1:58 am

Quoting StarAC17 (Reply 37):
Some good news on the lockout front, both parties look like they will agree to let this go to arbitration.

THIS is something which should have been done months ago, before the lockout even began.
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jetblueguy22
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RE: NHL Lockout Update PT 2: Talks To Resume Monday

Wed Nov 28, 2012 2:25 am

Quoting PHX787 (Reply 38):
THIS is something which should have been done months ago, before the lockout even began.

Well unfortunately both sides were hoping they could get what they wanted without arbitration. It's a step but I won't be excited until they drop the first puck and Bettman is relaxing in his retirement home in the Caribbean.
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RE: NHL Lockout Update PT 2: Talks To Resume Monday

Wed Nov 28, 2012 8:17 am

Quoting jetblueguy22 (Reply 39):
Well unfortunately both sides were hoping they could get what they wanted without arbitration. It's a step but I won't be excited until they drop the first puck and Bettman is relaxing in his retirement home in the Caribbean.

Happy Joining Day anniversary, by the way   

Well both sides are meeting tomorrow, and reportedly, both sides are sick of the whole thing. I hope that's good news.


Some updates here in the valley; the City of Glendale approved a new management plan over Jobing.com arena, a step needed for potential Coyotes buyer to actually buy the Yotes from the NHL.

Someone I know who attended the meeting says that once he buys the Yotes, he will sign a lease to keep them here for at the very least 10 years.

He seems like the type of owner who is a players' owner; a guy who would probably end up being at odds against Bettman in terms of the collective bargaining issues. He apparently also stated if he was an owner at this time, he would probably work to just give the players what they wanted and use mediation to fix the rest of the grievances.

Good news for the Coyotes here, but in all honesty, nothing to cheer for unless we can begin cheering in the arenas
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yooyoo
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RE: NHL Lockout Update PT 2: Talks To Resume Monday

Wed Nov 28, 2012 4:08 pm

Quoting StarAC17 (Reply 37):
Some good news on the lockout front, both parties look like they will agree to let this go to arbitration.



I believe both sides have agreed to a mediator. Mediation is not binding. It's just a third party trying to help the process. Mediators were used in 2004-05 and look what happened there.
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garnetpalmetto
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RE: NHL Lockout Update PT 2: Talks To Resume Monday

Wed Nov 28, 2012 4:18 pm

Quoting yooyoo (Reply 41):


I believe both sides have agreed to a mediator. Mediation is not binding. It's just a third party trying to help the process. Mediators were used in 2004-05 and look what happened there.

Largely correct. Mediation and arbitration are both forms of alternative dispute resolution that feature a third party trying to help the process. Mediation is, as you mention, nonbinding and can end in an impasse and a mediator doesn't have to choose a proposal as being the "correct" resolution.
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jetblueguy22
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RE: NHL Lockout Update PT 2: Talks To Resume Monday

Wed Nov 28, 2012 6:37 pm

Quoting PHX787 (Reply 40):
Happy Joining Day anniversary, by the way   

Thanks! Can't believe it has been 5 years!

Quoting yooyoo (Reply 41):
I believe both sides have agreed to a mediator. Mediation is not binding. It's just a third party trying to help the process. Mediators were used in 2004-05 and look what happened there.

Bummer, I was hoping for arbitration. It's a step, but whether or not it is in the right direction I'm not sure. It's too bad they're all so money hungry that they won't just get an arbitrator...
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RE: NHL Lockout Update PT 2: Talks To Resume Monday

Sat Dec 01, 2012 7:14 pm

God damn it:
http://www.nj.com/rangers/index.ssf/..._lockout_update_nhl_nhlpa_m_1.html
"Meeting with mediators ends with both sides still far apart"

  
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connies4ever
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RE: NHL Lockout Update PT 2: Talks To Resume Monday

Mon Dec 03, 2012 9:05 am

Seems that both Bettman and Fehr will NOT be at the meeting, so perhaps room for optimism. One of the owners who will be present is Mark Chipman of Winnipeg. I get the impression he's well thought of.
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yooyoo
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RE: NHL Lockout Update PT 2: Talks To Resume Monday

Mon Dec 03, 2012 3:01 pm

Quoting connies4ever (Reply 45):
Seems that both Bettman and Fehr will NOT be at the meeting, so perhaps room for optimism. One of the owners who will be present is Mark Chipman of Winnipeg. I get the impression he's well thought of.

as per Aaron Ward- "Source,Meeting involving NHL Owners and Players to take place Tuesday with 6 Owners and approximately same number of players"

Jermey Jacobs will be attending as well. Not a big fan of that guy. Other owners... Edwards, Burkle, Chipman, Vinik, Tannenbaum.
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RE: NHL Lockout Update PT 2: Talks To Resume Monday

Mon Dec 03, 2012 3:56 pm

These people are idiots, the whole lot of them. Millions of dollars for a game boys play, and you'd think nobody on either side ever thought for a moment about where their money comes from. It turns the stomach while demonstrating a galling lack of perspective or responsibility.
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brilondon
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RE: NHL Lockout Update PT 2: Talks To Resume Monday

Mon Dec 03, 2012 10:34 pm

The first thing I am going to say about the lockout is who cares any more? I can't see any thing happening soon. The mediators could not come up with any solutions and the real problem lies with the players getting contracts that are similar to that of other sports yet there is not a US network deal in place that would provide for the increased revenue needed to support the current contracts that are presently in force. The owners, although not having the income from hockey to support these million dollar contracts, keep signing contracts that they can't afford. There are maybe 10 teams that can make money. 15 teams that may or may not make money. 5 teams that should not even exist. Columbus, Tampa, Miami (Florida), Nashville, and Phoenix. The have more empty seats in their arenas then people and they have not been able to be fix the on ice situation. Once they do that and get rid of Bettman, the NHL would be a more prosperous league. Oh yeah, and fixthe game back to the way it use to be back in the 80's when there was actual talent and scoring and not a bunch of testosterone driven blockheads making the game slow and very less appealing.
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AirframeAS
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RE: NHL Lockout Update PT 2: Talks To Resume Monday

Mon Dec 03, 2012 10:47 pm

Quoting brilondon (Reply 48):
The owners, although not having the income from hockey to support these million dollar contracts, keep signing contracts that they can't afford.

Good luck to a owner trying to challenge a player's contract in court. A contract is a contract after all. This whole NHL lock-out is ridiculous and the owners need to suck it up on their boneheaded moves. And those boneheaded moves by the owners are not the players fault....regardless of what sport it is.
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