na
Topic Author
Posts: 9211
Joined: Sun Dec 12, 1999 3:52 am

Autobahn-shooter At Large Since 2008

Tue Nov 20, 2012 10:03 pm

Here is a very strange criminal case.

The German Police is looking for a person or persons who since 2008 have shot at trucks more than 700 (!) times since 2008. In one case a woman was (apparently accidentally) hit and severely injured. The police says that they are intensifying the search as the potential killer (who apparently does not want to harm people) is using a bigger gun now.
He/they aim at Trucks on the German Autobahn. In most cases, but not always, these trucks are transporters carrying brandnew cars, and he/they aim at those new cars. No one knows where these attacks happen, as the small damage is usually only found hundreds of miles away. The police could only narrow it down to certain Autobahns, mainly in the South and West of the country (were most German cars are built). 100.000 Euros are being awarded to the one delivering the right tip leading to an arrest.

What could be the motive? Plain car hatred? Hatred of trucks? Or just mental desease? A truckdriver hating trucks and new cars for some reason? (police says the shots are always fired from an elevated position, and some while driving parallel so it seems logical he shoots out of a truck)
 
Rara
Posts: 2296
Joined: Wed Jan 17, 2007 7:41 am

RE: Autobahn-shooter At Large Since 2008

Tue Nov 20, 2012 11:06 pm

How quaint. Seems strange that no-one would notice it at the time he shoots a gun right in the middle of traffic.
Samson was a biblical tough guy, but his dad Samsonite was even more of a hard case.
 
na
Topic Author
Posts: 9211
Joined: Sun Dec 12, 1999 3:52 am

RE: Autobahn-shooter At Large Since 2008

Wed Nov 21, 2012 11:04 am

Quoting Rara (Reply 1):
How quaint. Seems strange that no-one would notice it at the time he shoots a gun right in the middle of traffic.

Indeed, but I think its not done in dense traffic. And perhaps with a silencer as otherwise its almost impossible no one ever heard a shot. In darkness someone should have seen a blaze. As this isnt the case, and he/they shot more than 700 times it must have been done while waiting for low traffic. Strange is that some shots were fired from an elevated moving object (another truck or van). If thats the case, it must be more than one person, at least one driver plus a shooter, who take quite a risk to be detected. Amazing you can shoot 700 times in public in the middle of Germany and no one ever noticed.
 
Kiwirob
Posts: 10153
Joined: Mon Jun 13, 2005 2:16 pm

RE: Autobahn-shooter At Large Since 2008

Wed Nov 21, 2012 1:04 pm

Quoting Rara (Reply 1):
How quaint. Seems strange that no-one would notice it at the time he shoots a gun right in the middle of traffic.

If he's using a rifle from distance on a busy day, the noise of the autobahn would most likely block out the sound of the shot.

The shooter is probably a radical green.
 
NoUFO
Posts: 7397
Joined: Tue Apr 17, 2001 7:40 am

RE: Autobahn-shooter At Large Since 2008

Wed Nov 21, 2012 1:33 pm

Quoting KiwiRob (Reply 3):

Police say the shots were fired from moving vehicles, generally travelling in the opposite direction but sometimes they were overtaking. Some shots have been fired from a slightly elevated position which hints that the shooter sometimes drives a truck himself. Not sure how many radical greens are truck drivers.
I support the right to arm bears
 
Quokkas
Posts: 1327
Joined: Fri Jan 27, 2012 5:51 pm

RE: Autobahn-shooter At Large Since 2008

Wed Nov 21, 2012 1:44 pm

Quoting KiwiRob (Reply 3):
The shooter is probably a radical green.

Interesting thought. Any logical reason for drawing that conclusion?

My initial thought was, had there been any lay-offs in the automobile industry prior to the first shooting? Is this someone who was made redundant and sees himself as getting his own back? I assume that is a line of enquiry the police would have followed if it were so.
“Not to laugh, not to cry, not to hate, but understand.” Spinoza
 
Kiwirob
Posts: 10153
Joined: Mon Jun 13, 2005 2:16 pm

RE: Autobahn-shooter At Large Since 2008

Wed Nov 21, 2012 1:56 pm

Quoting Quokkas (Reply 5):

Interesting thought. Any logical reason for drawing that conclusion?

If the shooter is only shooting at cars on transporters makes me think the shooter doesn't like cars, which makes me think nutty greenie car hater type person.
 
NoUFO
Posts: 7397
Joined: Tue Apr 17, 2001 7:40 am

RE: Autobahn-shooter At Large Since 2008

Wed Nov 21, 2012 2:07 pm

Quoting KiwiRob (Reply 6):
If the shooter is only shooting at cars on transporters makes me think the shooter doesn't like cars, which makes me think nutty greenie car hater type person.

Did you read the original post or perhaps mine? While it is possible what you say, the fact that the offender seems to drive a truck himself makes it unlikely.
I support the right to arm bears
 
na
Topic Author
Posts: 9211
Joined: Sun Dec 12, 1999 3:52 am

RE: Autobahn-shooter At Large Since 2008

Wed Nov 21, 2012 2:13 pm

Quoting KiwiRob (Reply 6):
If the shooter is only shooting at cars on transporters makes me think the shooter doesn't like cars, which makes me think nutty greenie car hater type person.

Possible. But radical Greens are usually gun-haters as well.

Quoting NoUFO (Reply 4):
Police say the shots were fired from moving vehicles, generally travelling in the opposite direction but sometimes they were overtaking. Some shots have been fired from a slightly elevated position which hints that the shooter sometimes drives a truck himself. Not sure how many radical greens are truck drivers.

As much as I read only some shots were fired that way, others from still positions like elevated embankments. But its true, it must be someone who drives a lot (which speaks against a radical car hater), and someone who at least occasionally drives a truck or van.

Quoting Quokkas (Reply 5):
My initial thought was, had there been any lay-offs in the automobile industry prior to the first shooting? Is this someone who was made redundant and sees himself as getting his own back? I assume that is a line of enquiry the police would have followed if it were so.

There were no big lay-offs in 2008 when he/they started, or the years before. But it could be a singular case. If so, its likely he/they prefer to shoot at a certain car brand, and that is something the police surely would or must have said when they adressed the public for help. But who knows, maybe a desparate Opel-employee shooting at the successful competition (Opel is in big trouble since about the time the shootings started, and the main Opel factory in the middle of the Autobahns affected).

Quoting KiwiRob (Reply 3):
If he's using a rifle from distance on a busy day, the noise of the autobahn would most likely block out the sound of the shot.

The shootings are usually happening from a very close distance.
 
flyingturtle
Posts: 4763
Joined: Mon Oct 31, 2011 1:39 pm

RE: Autobahn-shooter At Large Since 2008

Wed Nov 21, 2012 2:34 pm

Here's a blog posting with some more info (in German):

http://www.lawblog.de/index.php/arch...-schieen-auf-deutschen-autobahnen/


It is a lengthy blog posting about that, with a picture and discussion of the ammo used (9 mm Para).


I'm very interested into how this will turn out. Because the damage to the trucks and cars have, with few exceptions, only been observed at the finish of the travel, the location of the shootings are pretty impossible to pinpoint.

David
Keeping calm is terrorism against those who want to live in fear.
 
User avatar
falstaff
Posts: 5593
Joined: Sun Jun 25, 2006 6:17 am

RE: Autobahn-shooter At Large Since 2008

Wed Nov 21, 2012 3:10 pm

Quoting KiwiRob (Reply 3):
The shooter is probably a radical green.

That wouldn't surprise me at all. Remember those radical greens that burnt a Hummer dealer, in California?

Quoting na (Reply 8):
Possible. But radical Greens are usually gun-haters as well.

Usually, but some aren't opposed to violence. I know there were some radical greens in the US that were burning car dealers and housing developments about 10 years ago. If you are willing to burn $1,000,000s in property than you probably aren't all that opposed to using a gun to commit acts of violence too.

Quoting NoUFO (Reply 7):
While it is possible what you say, the fact that the offender seems to drive a truck himself makes it unlikely.

Are they shooting with a pistol or long gun? It would be easy to shoot at a autorack with a pistol, from while driving a truck, but it would be a pain the butt with a rifle.

Quoting Rara (Reply 1):
Seems strange that no-one would notice it at the time he shoots a gun right in the middle of traffic.

Here in metro Detroit they just caught a guy who shot at 20 some cars in three counties. It took a while to catch the guy because most people didn't see anything. A lot of people heard things, but thought they were hearing rocks hitting windshields and car bodies. People who had tires get shot heard a pop, but just assumed they had a blowout.. Most people didn't recognize their cars had been hit until they got where they were going.

Quoting flyingturtle (Reply 9):
It is a lengthy blog posting about that, with a picture and discussion of the ammo used (9 mm Para).

The same the guy in metro Detroit used. 9mm parabellum is usual a pistol ammo, but you can shot it from a Carbine too.

I have a friend who is a detective in Halle. I'll ask him what he has heard about this. I wonder if any shot up autoracks were found in Halle?
My mug slaketh over on Falstaff N503
 
na
Topic Author
Posts: 9211
Joined: Sun Dec 12, 1999 3:52 am

RE: Autobahn-shooter At Large Since 2008

Wed Nov 21, 2012 3:28 pm

Quoting falstaff (Reply 10):
I have a friend who is a detective in Halle. I'll ask him what he has heard about this. I wonder if any shot up autoracks were found in Halle?

I think I read that the last cars being shot at were detected in Leipzig which is close to Halle (30 min drive). But the shots could have been fired hundreds of kms away.
 
NoUFO
Posts: 7397
Joined: Tue Apr 17, 2001 7:40 am

RE: Autobahn-shooter At Large Since 2008

Wed Nov 21, 2012 4:45 pm

Quoting falstaff (Reply 10):
Are they shooting with a pistol or long gun?

He has used different calibers - first .22 and now, since June 2012, 9 mm, so it is probably a pistol. I am a bit surprised police only mention "firearms". Shouldn't it be possible to determine if it was a pistol or a long gun?
Anyway, police find the 9mm somewhat more worrying due to the higher velocity. One round went through a sound barrier first, then through a window of a house and fell down in the hallway.

Quoting na (Reply 8):
As much as I read only some shots were fired that way, others from still positions like elevated embankments.

No, he drives a car, likely a truck. Read the press statement.

Quoting flyingturtle (Reply 9):
Here's a blog posting with some more info (in German):

For those who can read German, BKA's website ist best:
http://www.bka.de/DE/Presse/Pressemi...120__PKTransporter.html?__nnn=true

Some more pictures:
http://www.bka.de/nn_233148/DE/Press..._PKTransporter__Bildergalerie.html
I support the right to arm bears
 
na
Topic Author
Posts: 9211
Joined: Sun Dec 12, 1999 3:52 am

RE: Autobahn-shooter At Large Since 2008

Wed Nov 21, 2012 5:14 pm

Quoting NoUFO (Reply 12):
For those who can read German, BKA's website ist best:

Interesting and not unimportant is one thing.: some attacks, namely two of the three especially mentioned, happened at an odd time about 90% of the people is in bed or at least still at home: early morning before 7. Another hint it could be a trucker or courier. Likely someone with limited social contact I would assume. A typical family man wouldnt have the time and opportunity to hide so many criminal acts.
Strange for me is that even the detailed BKA-statement doesnt mention the brand of cars attacked. Even if many brands are affected, that should at least be said as I think its vital information.

But could a single man commit so many shootings out of a truck while he´s driving? Chances are its a duo (but that should make it easier for the police to find).
 
Kiwirob
Posts: 10153
Joined: Mon Jun 13, 2005 2:16 pm

RE: Autobahn-shooter At Large Since 2008

Wed Nov 21, 2012 5:55 pm

Quoting NoUFO (Reply 7):
Did you read the original post or perhaps mine? While it is possible what you say, the fact that the offender seems to drive a truck himself makes it unlikely.

They think he drives a truck, key word is think, they don't really know it's just a guess, so he could easily be on an embankment or over-bridge or driving a truck himself, or it could easily be a group of people in various locations around the country.

Whatever the story I find it interesting, so long as he doesn't kill anyone, not much harm is being done.
 
flyingturtle
Posts: 4763
Joined: Mon Oct 31, 2011 1:39 pm

RE: Autobahn-shooter At Large Since 2008

Wed Nov 21, 2012 6:03 pm

Quoting KiwiRob (Reply 14):
Whatever the story I find it interesting, so long as he doesn't kill anyone, not much harm is being done.

Maybe he's trusting on his shooting skills not to kill anybody.

But killing a person is a real possibility (he has already shot a woman, and the bullet has passed through a truck cabin three times already).

The Basque ETA terror group did something alike this guy for some time. They planted bombs in public spaces, and then they called the police. The "real" danger was in the ETA stopping to call the police...



David
Keeping calm is terrorism against those who want to live in fear.
 
na
Topic Author
Posts: 9211
Joined: Sun Dec 12, 1999 3:52 am

RE: Autobahn-shooter At Large Since 2008

Wed Nov 21, 2012 6:27 pm

Quoting KiwiRob (Reply 14):
They think he drives a truck, key word is think, they don't really know it's just a guess, so he could easily be on an embankment or over-bridge or driving a truck himself, or it could easily be a group of people in various locations around the country.

That almost always the same gun was used speaks against a whole group of criminals and against people coming from different places. And that the shots were often fired from a driving position is something police specialists have apparently found out and confirmed.

Quoting KiwiRob (Reply 14):
Whatever the story I find it interesting, so long as he doesn't kill anyone, not much harm is being done.

Everyone paying a car of insurance will somehow pay for it. A penny here, a Euro there...

Quoting flyingturtle (Reply 15):
Maybe he's trusting on his shooting skills not to kill anybody.

Absolutely. To shoot at least 700 times in traffic and only hit one person (and that apparently by accident) speaks for a trained person. But I assume the police has already checked all truck drivers active in those regions who also happen to own a gun, or are trained to shoot. Maybe its even a (former) policeman!
 
User avatar
falstaff
Posts: 5593
Joined: Sun Jun 25, 2006 6:17 am

RE: Autobahn-shooter At Large Since 2008

Wed Nov 21, 2012 6:42 pm

Quoting na (Reply 11):
But the shots could have been fired hundreds of kms away.

I just talked to my buddy from Halle and he said that it is a very difficult case because investigators don't know exactly where the crime scene is. My friend investigates robberies and property crimes and with those you always know where the crime scene is.

Quoting NoUFO (Reply 12):
Anyway, police find the 9mm somewhat more worrying due to the higher velocity.

A 22 isn't as powerful, but can be just as deadly.

Quoting na (Reply 16):
But I assume the police has already checked all truck drivers active in those regions who also happen to own a gun

That only works if the shooter legally owns the firearm. I would imagine there are pistols all over Germany that the government does't know about.

Quoting na (Reply 13):
Chances are its a duo

I could see that, but it may not make it that much easier to find the culprits. How many team drivers drive trucks in Germany? Probably thousands. If you were to stop every truck on the road and search you would likely find all kinds of things you wouldn't want to know about. I am sure the same could be said in most places.
My mug slaketh over on Falstaff N503
 
na
Topic Author
Posts: 9211
Joined: Sun Dec 12, 1999 3:52 am

RE: Autobahn-shooter At Large Since 2008

Wed Nov 21, 2012 6:55 pm

Quoting falstaff (Reply 17):
That only works if the shooter legally owns the firearm. I would imagine there are pistols all over Germany that the government does't know about.

Thats why I said

Quoting na (Reply 16):
, or are trained to shoot.

This man (or those men) must have some experience with guns, and more than just firing a few rounds while in the military. This man CAN shoot. Hard to think its someone who has no connections to guns or shooting at all.

Quoting falstaff (Reply 17):
I just talked to my buddy from Halle and he said that it is a very difficult case because investigators don't know exactly where the crime scene is.

Yes, but they know it happened on/at certains Autobahns leading through approx. 25%-30% of the German territory, roughly described as Southwest Germany. If the shooter doesnt live in that area or isnt based there otherwise (in these 5 out of 16 German states), he at least spends a lot of time there.
That said, Germany is probably the country with the highest truck density in the whole world, being the main transit country in Europe.
 
LMP737
Posts: 4932
Joined: Wed May 08, 2002 4:06 pm

RE: Autobahn-shooter At Large Since 2008

Wed Nov 21, 2012 7:59 pm

Quoting na (Thread starter):

What could be the motive? Plain car hatred? Hatred of trucks? Or just mental desease? A truckdriver hating trucks and new cars for some reason? (police says the shots are always fired from an elevated position, and some while driving parallel so it seems logical he shoots out of a truck)

Who ever it is, probably a male acting alone, has something wrong mentally. However he's probably smart enough not to tell anyone or even hint at it. That's what gets a lot of people who commit crimes caught. They have to tell someone out of some bizarre sense of satisfaction or guilt.
Never take financial advice from co-workers.
 
na
Topic Author
Posts: 9211
Joined: Sun Dec 12, 1999 3:52 am

RE: Autobahn-shooter At Large Since 2008

Fri Nov 30, 2012 10:23 am

Typical for the German media (and maybe elsewhere too): this was all over the place in the press ten days ago, but since, nothing. No journalist picked it up again and found it necessary to ask the police what and how many information came in from the public so far.

I´ve been driving around 1200 kms last weekend and passed a lot of car transporters, didnt see a bullet hole though 
Quoting LMP737 (Reply 19):
That's what gets a lot of people who commit crimes caught. They have to tell someone out of some bizarre sense of satisfaction or guilt.

True, its perhaps because many of those are lonely people.

Who is online

Users browsing this forum: hkg82 and 19 guests

Popular Searches On Airliners.net

Top Photos of Last:   24 Hours  •  48 Hours  •  7 Days  •  30 Days  •  180 Days  •  365 Days  •  All Time

Military Aircraft Every type from fighters to helicopters from air forces around the globe

Classic Airliners Props and jets from the good old days

Flight Decks Views from inside the cockpit

Aircraft Cabins Passenger cabin shots showing seat arrangements as well as cargo aircraft interior

Cargo Aircraft Pictures of great freighter aircraft

Government Aircraft Aircraft flying government officials

Helicopters Our large helicopter section. Both military and civil versions

Blimps / Airships Everything from the Goodyear blimp to the Zeppelin

Night Photos Beautiful shots taken while the sun is below the horizon

Accidents Accident, incident and crash related photos

Air to Air Photos taken by airborne photographers of airborne aircraft

Special Paint Schemes Aircraft painted in beautiful and original liveries

Airport Overviews Airport overviews from the air or ground

Tails and Winglets Tail and Winglet closeups with beautiful airline logos