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alberchico
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Is This Really Disrespectful?

Wed Nov 21, 2012 8:23 pm

This image has been generating some controversy with some suggesting that she be fired. Apparently she was in Washington on work related business. Can she be fired for goofing off on a company trip ?



But to be fair the guards at Arlington are famous for reprimanding people for being noisy :

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nYCPbP_a46I

http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2012/1...166842.html?utm_hp_ref=mostpopular

Your thoughts ???
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jetblueguy22
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RE: Is This Really Disrespectful?

Wed Nov 21, 2012 8:29 pm

I find it disrespectful for sure. It's one thing if you say a quiet please sign in an office, but the National Cemetery, that's just not right. I don't think she should be fired for this if this was done on her own time. Sure she represents the company, but unless she posted it in an official company communication it is all on her.
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AR385
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RE: Is This Really Disrespectful?

Wed Nov 21, 2012 8:37 pm

Why bother to fire her? She´s obviously so stupid and disrespectful she´ll be fired soon anyway for something done at her place of employment with lot less controversy and publicity.
 
aloges
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RE: Is This Really Disrespectful?

Wed Nov 21, 2012 8:38 pm

Quoting alberchico (Thread starter):
Is This Really Disrespectful?

Yes, but it isn't scandalous unless you're an American militarist. I can easily imagine some of the people whose family members rest in that cemetary brushing it off.

Quoting alberchico (Thread starter):
Can she be fired for goofing off on a company trip ?

I don't know if it's legally possible, but that sort of prank certainly puts you in the firing line (yay, what a pun    ) if it is in any way possible to connect your antics to your employer.
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vikkyvik
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RE: Is This Really Disrespectful?

Wed Nov 21, 2012 9:07 pm

Quoting alberchico (Thread starter):
Can she be fired for goofing off on a company trip ?

I would think so. She posted it publicly (on Facebook), and the company paid for the trip.

Do I find it disrespectful? I don't know. If people want it to be disrespectful, then it's disrespectful. If people don't care, then it's not. I fall into the latter category. And I don't see why anyone should really care, aside from those who know and/or work with her. People do stupid, disrespectful things all day every day. Pointless trying to stop them all.

Hell, even the unit who guards the Tomb doesn't seem to care (at least publicly):

The Old Guard, the U.S. Army Infantry regiment that is charged with guarding the Tomb of the Unknowns and is famous for weathering literal storms, seems prepared to weather a social media storm as well. They told Gonzalez that Stone is entitled to her freedom of speech.

from http://todaynews.today.com/_news/201...ks-outrage-calls-for-womans-firing
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RussianJet
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RE: Is This Really Disrespectful?

Wed Nov 21, 2012 9:09 pm

It's massively disrespectful, but pretty pointless sacking her. I tend to agree with the view that if she is that stupid she'll come undone at work anyway.
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Tugger
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RE: Is This Really Disrespectful?

Wed Nov 21, 2012 9:30 pm

It's a JOKE folks..... nothing to see here, move along.

My god we like to make such big issues of silly little things that everybody does or has done at one time or another (no I am not suggesting that YOU, perfect you, have done what this lady is doing. But certainly something stupid, disrespectful and done as a "funny").

Just let it be, we like far to much to butt in a complain about others nowadays.

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DarkSnowyNight
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RE: Is This Really Disrespectful?

Wed Nov 21, 2012 9:38 pm

Quoting vikkyvik (Reply 4):
If people want it to be disrespectful, then it's disrespectful. If people don't care, then it's not.

Right. I think this a story looking for an audience. I think most people would see that we don't get to brag loudly and ceaselessly about "defending" freedom, and then turn around and be offended by as much.

Whether or not she can be sacked. This is America. We really don't offer much in the way of job security across the board, so that would be up to what her Company thinks of all this. Where I work, it's customary to avoid low-brow postings on social media, and of course, talking about the Company is something of a third rail. Nothing special there. If her Company feels the same, could be trouble, especially given how much modern Companies like

Quoting aloges (Reply 3):

Yes, but it isn't scandalous unless you're an American militarist. I can easily imagine some of the people whose family members rest in that cemetary brushing it off.

Yes, but "militarist" describes an increasing and vocal number of americans. From a PR standpoint, that can be a problem.
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RussianJet
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RE: Is This Really Disrespectful?

Wed Nov 21, 2012 9:42 pm

Quoting tugger (Reply 6):
we like far to much to butt in a complain about others nowadays.

Sure, but here's the problem - stick things like that on the internet these days and there's not really much 'butting-in' called for, as these things come by without even looking for them. And that's the thing - we've all made stupid, and I'm sure at times pretty darn offensive jokes, but hopefully most of us have the brains to understand that spreading them online is a very stupid thing to do. You are in essence right, but you have to think about where these things might end up now.
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WestJet747
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RE: Is This Really Disrespectful?

Wed Nov 21, 2012 10:38 pm

Quoting RussianJet (Reply 5):
It's massively disrespectful, but pretty pointless sacking her. I tend to agree with the view that if she is that stupid she'll come undone at work anyway.

But as the employer, why wait until she makes another mistake?

If she worked for me, she would be canned pretty fast, and it has nothing to do with insulting the military. This woman clearly has incredibly poor judgement, and when working for a non-profit who likely has tighter budgets, there's too much risk in keeping someone who has difficulty making appropriate choices while representing the company.
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DiamondFlyer
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RE: Is This Really Disrespectful?

Wed Nov 21, 2012 10:41 pm

I don't get why people are so up in arms about this whole deal, especially the military types. You signed up to go fight, fight for one of the rights she is exercising. You don't get to pout when the rights you signed up to defend are exercised in such a way that you don't agree with it.

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tz757300
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RE: Is This Really Disrespectful?

Wed Nov 21, 2012 10:53 pm

Is it disrespectful? Yeah, I think it is, but I can't get mad because it's not a law to be quiet.

I have plenty of family members buried in there, and will be burying my grandma there in 9 days. It is a cemetery visited by masses of people every year. I don't think it is reasonable to expect 100% quiet and respect from everyone.

Now, THAT does open up something I really don't like, which is how the cemetery is now a major tourist attraction. If they really want respect, why market the place as somewhere everyone should visit?? That I find to be pretty disrespectful.
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fr8mech
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RE: Is This Really Disrespectful?

Wed Nov 21, 2012 11:13 pm

Quoting alberchico (Thread starter):
Can she be fired for goofing off on a company trip ?

Yes, she can be fired. She was on a company trip and, presumably, associated her company with the posting.

Quoting tugger (Reply 6):
It's a JOKE folks..... nothing to see here, move along.

Yes, it is a joke, in fact, a quote from the joker in question"

"This is just us, being the douchebags that we are, challenging authority in general. Much like the pic posted the night before, of me smoking right next to a no smoking sign. OBVIOUSLY we meant NO disrespect to people that serve or have served our country."

But, here is the kicker, people can be fired for doing stupid things while representing their employer. Smoking next to a no smoking sign is NOT the same same flipping the bird in (at) the National Cemetery. Her employer has every right to take whatever action it deems required to maintain its good name and customer base.

Tugger, if you're not offended, then don't be offended. But others were offended and decided to express their feelings by signing a petition demanding that the employee get fired. Happens all the time. It is the prerogative of the employer to act on that petition or not.

And, no Mrs. Stone, it is not obvious to the millions who have seen this picture that you meant no disrespect. Actions have consequences.

[Edited 2012-11-21 15:21:23]
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sprout5199
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RE: Is This Really Disrespectful?

Wed Nov 21, 2012 11:28 pm

It's funny. No reason to fire her.

FYI I am a vet, served 6 years in the Navy.

Now if it would have been in front of a grave, thats a different story.

Seems to me, those who are screaming about this need to get a life. Nothing wrong with it. She is doing something humorous. People are taking this out of context, and making something out of nothing. You would be shocked at the number of times I have "disrespected" the Navy, the military, and the flag while on active duty. Get over it people.

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AirframeAS
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RE: Is This Really Disrespectful?

Wed Nov 21, 2012 11:41 pm

Quoting sprout5199 (Reply 13):
Now if it would have been in front of a grave, thats a different story.

   And there we have it! A great point. I could not agree more!
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PC12Fan
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RE: Is This Really Disrespectful?

Wed Nov 21, 2012 11:53 pm

Quoting tugger (Reply 6):

Yes, but there are times when if even it's entirely intended to be a joke, it flat out shouldn't be done. Her "shouting" isn't so bad, but the finger puts it over the line.

Quoting DiamondFlyer (Reply 10):
I don't get why people are so up in arms about this whole deal, especially the military types. You signed up to go fight, fight for one of the rights she is exercising.

Still doesn't make it right. This coming from a guy that never served.
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TransIsland
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RE: Is This Really Disrespectful?

Wed Nov 21, 2012 11:58 pm

The question whether it is disrespectful is irrelevant. She was exercising her first amendment rights, which conservatives (and I count even the most liberal admirers of the military among those) seem to forget comes before the second amendment.
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RussianJet
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RE: Is This Really Disrespectful?

Thu Nov 22, 2012 12:13 am

Quoting WestJet747 (Reply 9):

But as the employer, why wait until she makes another mistake?

If she worked for me, she would be canned pretty fast, and it has nothing to do with insulting the military. This woman clearly has incredibly poor judgement, and when working for a non-profit who likely has tighter budgets, there's too much risk in keeping someone who has difficulty making appropriate choices while representing the company.

Because unless it directly brings the company into disrepute, I really don't think companies should be controlling every stupid little thing people do outside of work. There is of course the chance she might not be as stupid or show such bad judgement in the workplace as she does out, so see how she does. It is the cse that we have probably all done silly things outside of work.
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ltbewr
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RE: Is This Really Disrespectful?

Thu Nov 22, 2012 1:07 am

In this day and age where getting and keeping a job is so difficult, any little thing that makes the employer look bad will be used against you including Facebook and other social media postings. With social media, what you could keep among a few friends or family can, as here posted by someone who is friend (and then probably unfriendly) that goes viral worldwide. I have visited this site several times. I always showed respect. The woman didn't show the common sense one need from an employee so good riddence.
 
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DocLightning
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RE: Is This Really Disrespectful?

Thu Nov 22, 2012 1:29 am

Quoting TransIsland (Reply 16):
The question whether it is disrespectful is irrelevant. She was exercising her first amendment rights, which conservatives (and I count even the most liberal admirers of the military among those) seem to forget comes before the second amendment.

Let's talk for a moment about what the First Amendment protects and what it doesn't protect.

The First Amendment protects her from criminal prosecution or even civil litigation for her free expression. I can stand on top of the Tomb of the Unknown Soldier and scream "All Hail Lord Satan!!" and the best they can get me for is trespassing and perhaps disturbing the peace.

Now, that said, the First Amendment does NOT mean that you have a right to do so without any repercussion whatsoever. Her employer would be perfectly within their right to fire her for such unprofessional behavior, especially while on a company-paid trip. Similarly, I can't walk up to my boss and call him some profanity and then expect the First Amendment to protect me from disciplinary action.
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fr8mech
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RE: Is This Really Disrespectful?

Thu Nov 22, 2012 1:36 am

Quoting TransIsland (Reply 16):
The question whether it is disrespectful is irrelevant. She was exercising her first amendment rights, which conservatives (and I count even the most liberal admirers of the military among those) seem to forget comes before the second amendment.


The First Amendment does NOT restrain non-government actors. The First Amendment (as is the entire Bill of Rights and several other areas of the Constitution and its amendments) is a restraint against government. The government could not sanction her for what she has done. Her employer, most certainly can.

Quoting RussianJet (Reply 17):
Because unless it directly brings the company into disrepute,


And, who makes that judgement? I argue that it is ultimately up to the employer to make that judgement. In this case she was on a company sponsored trip, i.e. representing her employer, when she did this.

Quoting sprout5199 (Reply 13):
Now if it would have been in front of a grave, thats a different story.


It really isn't for you to decide who is offended by what and who isn't offended. People get offended by the slightest things. Some folks make a career out of being offended. Others could care less.
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fr8mech
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RE: Is This Really Disrespectful?

Thu Nov 22, 2012 1:49 am

Quoting DocLightning (Reply 19):

Doc, you beat me to it. And, as usual, stated it more eloquently.
When seconds count...the police are minutes away.
 
kiwiinoz
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RE: Is This Really Disrespectful?

Thu Nov 22, 2012 2:21 am

Well, it's a joke and if shared with a controlled group of people she knows well, I don't believe it's particularly disrespectful. She was disrespectful and VERY stupid when she posted the image on facebook for all the world to see

I don't know how many high profile social media screw-ups there has to be to teach people the dangers of this medium. The response and outrage is completely disproprtianate to her actions but them's the breaks on Facebook.

Should she be fired?, I don't think so, However, the company is between a rock and a hard place now in terms of PR. They will probably find a way to move her on.
 
TheCol
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RE: Is This Really Disrespectful?

Thu Nov 22, 2012 2:59 am

Quoting WestJet747 (Reply 9):
If she worked for me, she would be canned pretty fast, and it has nothing to do with insulting the military. This woman clearly has incredibly poor judgement

  

Especially after reading this:

Quoting fr8mech (Reply 12):
This is just us, being the douchebags that we are, challenging authority in general. Much like the pic posted the night before, of me smoking right next to a no smoking sign.

When people are traveling on the company dime, they are expected to act and dress professionally. This woman clearly has no common sense and is totally immature. If I was her employer, I wouldn't want somebody like her representing my place of business. This is the real world, not high school.
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TransIsland
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RE: Is This Really Disrespectful?

Thu Nov 22, 2012 3:06 am

Quoting DocLightning (Reply 19):
Now, that said, the First Amendment does NOT mean that you have a right to do so without any repercussion whatsoever. Her employer would be perfectly within their right to fire her for such unprofessional behavior, especially while on a company-paid trip. Similarly, I can't walk up to my boss and call him some profanity and then expect the First Amendment to protect me from disciplinary action.

Surely, even on a business trip you have some recreational time during which you are not "on the clock"? If US law allows for private/corporate sanctions against sentiments people express while on their own time, I would say government by extension and indirectly infringes on said first amendment right. (But I will admit that I am a radical when it comes to protecting free speech, even hate speech, as much as I dislike it. At least it allows me to recognise the speaker for the a*hole they are.)

So unless this action has anything directly to do with her employer, which would render her unable to appropriately and credibly represent them henceforth, I see no grounds for firing her. (That would be you calling your boss some profanity, for example.)
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fr8mech
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RE: Is This Really Disrespectful?

Thu Nov 22, 2012 3:17 am

Quoting TransIsland (Reply 24):
If US law allows for private/corporate sanctions against sentiments people express while on their own time,


But, is she on her own time? Even if this trip was optional, when she decided to go, she was representing her employer. Thus, her actions reflect on her employer.

Quoting TransIsland (Reply 24):
I am a radical when it comes to protecting free speech


I too am vehement about free speech. I am proud when I see the New Black Panthers spout hate or when the KKK takes to the streets. But, quite simply, the US Constitution does not restrict non-government entities, it restricts the government.

If The Congress were to enact a law that extended First Amendment restrictions to employers, wouldn't that infringe on The First Amendment rights of the employer?

Quoting TransIsland (Reply 24):
So unless this action has anything directly to do with her employer, which would render her unable to appropriately and credibly represent them henceforth, I see no grounds for firing her.


But, again, who makes that determination? I say the employer makes that determination and is well within its rights to sanction her as the employer sees fit.
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Aeri28
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RE: Is This Really Disrespectful?

Thu Nov 22, 2012 3:28 am

disrespectful? sure, I think so. Should she be fired. Well no to be honest, no not for this. Would I care if she were fired. No not at all. BUT BUT BUT, in today's world, we are simply responsib le for our actions online far more than we were five or ten years ago and beyond. Thing is, now if you post something online or say something, and if enough people find your actions not to their liking, they just may say something. In today's business climate, if you are deemed somehow a liability to the company, it's possible your postion can be affected. It is just how it is. I didn't fully read the article so have no idea if they stated her work position, but her full name is out there and google is a good friend to many, therefore, her actions may cause her issues down the road if someone in a position of hiring or promotion doesn't like her previous actions.

You really have to watch what you say, and do these days. i know a guy who posts constantly on facebook. His facebook name is his full first middle and last name. He posts comments on porn, his rants about the world or whatever. He is an open book. He does work but is underemployed and has been looking (major city) for years in a marketing capacity. Do you think he's found anything yet? No. Do you think with all the interviews he's had a prospective employer might have done a search for his name? Yes Im pretty sure they have.
 
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DocLightning
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RE: Is This Really Disrespectful?

Thu Nov 22, 2012 3:39 am

Quoting TransIsland (Reply 24):
Surely, even on a business trip you have some recreational time during which you are not "on the clock"?

Doesn't matter. Suppose one of your employees on his own time marched with a group like NAMBLA (a pro-pedophilia group).

Now, NAMBLA has every right to exist, although they do not have a right to actually "practice what they preach," but they do have the right to say that pedophilia should be legal.

I don't know about you, but on the clock or not, I'd fire such an employee.
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sccutler
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RE: Is This Really Disrespectful?

Thu Nov 22, 2012 4:01 am

Quoting TransIsland (Reply 16):

The question whether it is disrespectful is irrelevant. She was exercising her first amendment rights, which conservatives (and I count even the most liberal admirers of the military among those) seem to forget comes before the second amendment.


The greatest challenge to free speech is in the seemingly-unending wave of political correctness, and people who ascribe foul intent and meaning to the words of others, when such intent and meaning were not explicit.
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Mir
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RE: Is This Really Disrespectful?

Thu Nov 22, 2012 4:12 am

Quoting alberchico (Thread starter):
Is This Really Disrespectful?

I would say so, yes. I don't care if it's Arlington or St. Zzwyxx's Cut-Rate Burial Ground, you don't set out to "be a douchebag" in a cemetery.

Quoting alberchico (Thread starter):
Can she be fired for goofing off on a company trip ?

She certainly can. Should she? I'd say probably. She was on a company trip, so was there as a representative of the company, and she was blatantly making an ass of herself. Not only was it very poor judgement on her part, it was done on company time, and most importantly she hasn't apologized. Saying "we didn't mean it that way, we were just being rebellious idiots" is not the same as "I'm sorry".

If she put out a sincere apology, I'd let her keep her job. Otherwise, no.

Quoting PC12Fan (Reply 15):
Yes, but there are times when if even it's entirely intended to be a joke, it flat out shouldn't be done.

   Also, when you try to defend something as being a joke, it helps to not say that the objective of the act in question was to be a douchebag.

Quoting fr8mech (Reply 12):
And, no Mrs. Stone, it is not obvious to the millions who have seen this picture that you meant no disrespect.

   Clearly the intent of the photo was to at least feign disrespect.

-Mir
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shamrock604
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RE: Is This Really Disrespectful?

Thu Nov 22, 2012 4:21 am

Was her action disrespectful? Sure.

Did she mean it to be? Probably not.

Does she deserve to get fired for it? Of course not.

Don't we keep getting reminded that these brave souls died for our freedom against tyranny etc etc. And what's the first thing society now does when anyone dares to criticise, or even merely appears to criticize them? We go all Nazi on them.

Irony - absolutely.

It's like this "poppy fascism" crap that goes on in the UK every year without fail.

An Irish footballer refused to wear the poppy (the army he was supposed to pay tribute to by wearing his poppy murdered 14 innocent people in his neighbourhood and countless others in his country). I think that is perfectly acceptable grounds for him to "not comply" - He has now received death threats for his non compliance with poppy fascism.

Do I agree with the actions of either of these two people? No - I would not have done the same things. Do I have to respect their right to say or do these things? Of course - we do live in a democracy after all.

[Edited 2012-11-21 20:46:15]
 
ronglimeng
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RE: Is This Really Disrespectful?

Thu Nov 22, 2012 4:22 am

I think the presence of a member of the "Old Guard" "walking the mat" actually detracts from the solemnity of the location and draws attention away from the Tomb towards a "performance".

There are always would-be visitors to "hallowed ground" who just don't get it and need to be either tuned up or turned away. It would be better if entrance of people into the area was monitored and controlled.

I know I'm contradicting myself, but I've done the Washington tour and the Vietnam Memorial was a far more poignant and moving experience for me.
 
fr8mech
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RE: Is This Really Disrespectful?

Thu Nov 22, 2012 5:00 am

Quoting shamrock604 (Reply 30):
Does she deserve to get fired for it? Of course not.


Truth be known, I don't think she needs to be fired, but, it's not up to me. It's the employer's prerogative to deal with the employee as the employer sees fit, so long as the employer remains within the law. If the employer feels she has done harm to the company name and termination is the only way to fix it, more power to the employer.

Let Mrs. Stone understand that actions have consequences and, even more importantly (whether we like it or not) perception is reality. If the general public perceives she was being disrespectful, then she was.

Quoting ronglimeng (Reply 31):
know I'm contradicting myself, but I've done the Washington tour and the Vietnam Memorial was a far more poignant and moving experience for me.


We were in D.C. this passed summer and I found the Korean War Memorial more moving than the Vietnam Memorial.
When seconds count...the police are minutes away.
 
PHX787
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RE: Is This Really Disrespectful?

Thu Nov 22, 2012 5:12 am

Guys it's disrespectful at its greatest,......but seriously, she does have the 1st amendment....But I don't wanna sail into an argument about that
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DocLightning
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RE: Is This Really Disrespectful?

Thu Nov 22, 2012 5:20 am

Quoting PHX787 (Reply 33):
Guys it's disrespectful at its greatest,......but seriously, she does have the 1st amendment....But I don't wanna sail into an argument about that

Again, the 1st Amendment protects you from the gummint. It does not protect you from your employer.
-Doc Lightning-

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PHX787
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RE: Is This Really Disrespectful?

Thu Nov 22, 2012 5:21 am

Quoting DocLightning (Reply 34):
Again, the 1st Amendment protects you from the gummint. It does not protect you from your employer.

did not see your previous post   And yes she should be fired
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Mir
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RE: Is This Really Disrespectful?

Thu Nov 22, 2012 5:22 am

Quoting PHX787 (Reply 33):
but seriously, she does have the 1st amendment....

Seriously, she doesn't. See Reply 19 for why.

-Mir
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Maverick623
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RE: Is This Really Disrespectful?

Thu Nov 22, 2012 8:36 am

Quoting alberchico (Thread starter):
Can she be fired for goofing off on a company trip ?

Absolutely.

Quoting aloges (Reply 3):
Yes, but it isn't scandalous unless you're an American militarist. I can easily imagine some of the people whose family members rest in that cemetary brushing it off.

Indeed, we've had a vet post in this thread that he thought it wasn't a big deal.

Personally, I think she's.... a lot of things that would probably earn me a wrist-slap from the mods if I said them. Let's just say she's a spoiled brat who thinks anarchy is cool.

Quoting DiamondFlyer (Reply 10):
I don't get why people are so up in arms about this whole deal, especially the military types. You signed up to go fight, fight for one of the rights she is exercising. You don't get to pout when the rights you signed up to defend are exercised in such a way that you don't agree with it.

Actually, they DO get to pout... that is them exercising their freedom of speech. They fought for her right to make her statement, it does NOT mean they have to shut up when she does.
"PHX is Phoenix, PDX is the other city" -777Way
 
rlwynn
Posts: 1119
Joined: Fri Dec 15, 2000 3:35 am

RE: Is This Really Disrespectful?

Thu Nov 22, 2012 10:11 am

Fired.

I think the picture is funny.
Funny that in the way she is just so stupid. She is not disrespecting anything as a she is probably not smart enough to think like that. She was just making a stupid picture and now she is toast.

[Edited 2012-11-22 03:07:58]
I can drive faster than you
 
FlyDeltaJets
Posts: 1635
Joined: Thu Feb 02, 2006 4:24 pm

RE: Is This Really Disrespectful?

Thu Nov 22, 2012 11:00 am

Everyone keeps saying while she is on her company trip she is representing the company. While looking at the picture in question please tell me the name of the company she is supposedly representing. If she gets fired it is simply because she was convicted in the court of public opinion. No other reason. Should she have excercised better judgement certainly. SHould she be terminated no maybe a stern talking to but why take food off of someone's table for 1 stupid mistake.
The only valid opinions are those based in facts
 
rlwynn
Posts: 1119
Joined: Fri Dec 15, 2000 3:35 am

RE: Is This Really Disrespectful?

Thu Nov 22, 2012 11:11 am

She has been fired. This was posted on her facebook for all to see along with the name of her company. It went viral and there were thousands speaking about it. The company really had no choice with all the publicity.

http://bostinno.com/2012/11/21/lindsey-stone-fired-for-facebook-photo/

[Edited 2012-11-22 03:12:51]
I can drive faster than you
 
fr8mech
Posts: 6714
Joined: Mon Sep 26, 2005 9:00 am

RE: Is This Really Disrespectful?

Thu Nov 22, 2012 11:29 am

Quoting FlyDeltaJets (Reply 39):
SHould she be terminated no maybe a stern talking to but why take food off of someone's table for 1 stupid mistake.


Because the employer felt that termination was what was required in order to placate the court of public opinion. Anyone notice that the person taking the picture was also terminated?

Sometimes 1 mistake is all it takes.

But, my guess is that the employer probably wanted her gone and this provided the appropriate cover.
When seconds count...the police are minutes away.
 
smittyone
Posts: 1336
Joined: Thu Feb 09, 2012 12:55 am

RE: Is This Really Disrespectful?

Thu Nov 22, 2012 12:44 pm

Quoting sprout5199 (Reply 13):

It's funny. No reason to fire her.

FYI I am a vet, served 6 years in the Navy.

Now if it would have been in front of a grave, thats a different story.

Seems to me, those who are screaming about this need to get a life. Nothing wrong with it. She is doing something humorous. People are taking this out of context, and making something out of nothing. You would be shocked at the number of times I have "disrespected" the Navy, the military, and the flag while on active duty. Get over it people.

I'm in the service now, going on 20 years.

The picture she took was so outrageous and ironic that it could only have been meant as a joke. If people could set aside their self-righteous 'need to be offended at something' for a second they might actually appreciate a little irreverent humor.

I have seen countless pictures of military members doing silly things...when I was a pup a bunch of us took a picture in our underwear in a particularly hallowed location. Hallowed is what made it funny!

Poor taste, sure. Not the best judgment, certainly. But all of this indignation is misplaced and says more about those who are offended than the silly woman who took this picture.

Quoting Mir (Reply 29):
Clearly the intent of the photo was to at least feign disrespect.

'Feign' being the key word.

Quoting shamrock604 (Reply 30):
It's like this "poppy fascism" crap that goes on in the UK every year without fail.

Absolutely...we're in a strange place here in the US, post 9/11. It's fashionable now to be all 'overly solemn' with regard to Service members' sacrifices that people couldn't give the first shit about a handful of years ago.

If this lady had been deliberately mocking service members I'd be upset. In this case it's a young lady whose sense of the ridiculous got away from her and for me a genuine apology for her lack of judgment is more than enough.
 
adh214
Posts: 346
Joined: Thu Sep 16, 1999 6:07 am

RE: Is This Really Disrespectful?

Thu Nov 22, 2012 3:01 pm

I don't understand why her employer is involved. In looking at the photo I have no idea who she works for. I just assumed she was another tourist. I have been on plenty of business trips but that does not mean I am on the clock 24 hours a day.

Imagine all of the "bad behavior" that occurs on business trips.... Strip clubs, affairs, prostitution....

Andrew
 
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DarkSnowyNight
Posts: 1815
Joined: Sun Jan 01, 2012 7:59 pm

RE: Is This Really Disrespectful?

Thu Nov 22, 2012 3:32 pm

Quoting fr8mech (Reply 41):

Because the employer felt that termination was what was required in order to placate the court of public opinion.

And for this reason, if I ever had need for any of her employer's services, I would promptly consider doing said business elsewhere or not at all. If placating an angry and fickle mob (and let's be realistic, no one will be talking about this next week) is their only reason for this, then there's no reason they should be in business.

Quoting fr8mech (Reply 41):
But, my guess is that the employer probably wanted her gone and this provided the appropriate cover.

This is quite also possible, however.

Quoting SmittyOne (Reply 42):

The picture she took was so outrageous and ironic that it could only have been meant as a joke. If people could set aside their self-righteous 'need to be offended at something' for a second they might actually appreciate a little irreverent humor.

Indeed. This fervence of this type of sanctimony exhibited by this incident is exceeded only by its absence of rational thought. Does anyone really even want to live in a place that takes itself this seriously?

Quoting SmittyOne (Reply 42):
ut all of this indignation is misplaced and says more about those who are offended than the silly woman who took this picture.

Absolutely. It's either a case of us becoming insufferably humorless, or (and I don't know which would be worse) just that people are losing the ability to "get it" anymore. I'm sure I'm overstating this (I hope), but sometimes it's just straight painful how much we really need to lighten the hell up already.
Be A Perfectionst, You're Nothing If You're Just Another; Something Material, This Isn't Personal...
 
Mir
Posts: 19108
Joined: Mon Jan 05, 2004 3:55 am

RE: Is This Really Disrespectful?

Thu Nov 22, 2012 3:45 pm

Quoting SmittyOne (Reply 42):
In this case it's a young lady whose sense of the ridiculous got away from her and for me a genuine apology for her lack of judgment is more than enough.

I agree completely, but she hasn't given a genuine apology (as far as I'm aware). That does it for me.

-Mir
7 billion, one nation, imagination...it's a beautiful day
 
Maverick623
Posts: 4650
Joined: Thu Nov 30, 2006 9:13 am

RE: Is This Really Disrespectful?

Thu Nov 22, 2012 4:23 pm

Quoting Mir (Reply 45):
I agree completely, but she hasn't given a genuine apology (as far as I'm aware).

Check

Quoting rlwynn (Reply 40):

http://bostinno.com/2012/11/21/linds...hoto/
Quote:
On Tuesday, after the photo made national and local news headlines, Stone and her co-worker issued an apology, admitting what they did was wrong and saying they meant no harm by it.

The duo said:

We sincerely apologize for all the pain we have caused by posting the picture we took in Washington DC on Facebook. While posted on a public forum, the picture was intended only for our own amusement. We never meant any disrespect to any of the people nationwide who have served this country and defended our freedom so valiantly%u2026It was meant merely as a visual pun, intending to depict the exact opposite of what the sign said, and had absolutely nothing to do with the location it was taken or the people represented there. We never meant to cause any harm or disrespect to anyone, particularly our men and women in uniform. We realize it was in incredibly poor taste, and are deeply sorry for the offense we have caused.
"PHX is Phoenix, PDX is the other city" -777Way
 
PHX787
Posts: 7881
Joined: Thu Mar 15, 2012 7:46 pm

RE: Is This Really Disrespectful?

Thu Nov 22, 2012 7:00 pm

Quoting rlwynn (Reply 40):
She has been fired. This was posted on her facebook for all to see along with the name of her company. It went viral and there were thousands speaking about it. The company really had no choice with all the publicity.

Well good riddance. Hopefully she learns a bit about respect before finding another job.
Follow me on twitter: www.twitter.com/phx787
 
Mir
Posts: 19108
Joined: Mon Jan 05, 2004 3:55 am

RE: Is This Really Disrespectful?

Thu Nov 22, 2012 8:52 pm

Quoting Maverick623 (Reply 46):
Check

Eh, okay. I don't think they really needed to go into the whole "we were just making a visual pun" thing, but I'd accept that if I were their employer.

-Mir
7 billion, one nation, imagination...it's a beautiful day
 
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pvjin
Posts: 3186
Joined: Fri Mar 16, 2012 4:52 pm

RE: Is This Really Disrespectful?

Thu Nov 22, 2012 9:14 pm

Not disrespectful really, she didn't do it in front of a grave. Besides in my opinion it's ridiculous to have military graveyards for any soldiers who fought after WW2. After WW2 no war US has fought has been fought for defense of the United States and thus no heroes were made in these wars. Soldiers today should be buried just like all other people do, without any nationalist rubbish.
"Optimism is the madness of insisting that all is well when we are miserable." - Voltaire

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