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Dreadnought
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Egypt Bans Dissent

Sat Nov 24, 2012 12:00 am

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-middle-east-20451208

Quote:
Egypt's President Mohammed Mursi has issued a declaration banning challenges to his decrees, laws and decisions.

The declaration also says no court can dissolve the constituent assembly, which is drawing up a new constitution.

President Mursi also sacked the chief prosecutor and ordered the retrial of people accused of attacking protesters when ex-President Mubarak held office.

Egyptian opposition leader Mohammed ElBaradei accused Mr Mursi of acting like a "new pharaoh".

So much for democracy and the rule of law in Egypt. Either the people will rise up against him and do a 'Mubarak' on him, or we may be seeing another Iran form up.
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Cadet985
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RE: Egypt Bans Dissent

Sat Nov 24, 2012 12:07 am

Here we go again...another Arab Spring in a few months?

Marc
 
AirframeAS
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RE: Egypt Bans Dissent

Sat Nov 24, 2012 12:41 am

Is Mursi becoming a clone of Mubarak? Looks like it, methinks.
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PHX787
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RE: Egypt Bans Dissent

Sat Nov 24, 2012 1:00 am

Quoting Dreadnought (Thread starter):
So much for democracy and the rule of law in Egypt. Either the people will rise up against him and do a 'Mubarak' on him, or we may be seeing another Iran form up.

Wow. Just wow. But I'm not surprised.

Quoting Cadet985 (Reply 1):
Here we go again...another Arab Spring in a few months?

I wouldn't be surprised, but they deserve it. Honestly, you know who you're voting for when you vote for them.

Quoting AirframeAS (Reply 3):
Is Mursi becoming a clone of Mubarak? Looks like it, methinks.

Islamism at it's worst. Or at it's only. Honestly, stop it with these religious ruled government!
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AirframeAS
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RE: Egypt Bans Dissent

Sat Nov 24, 2012 1:18 am

Quoting PHX787 (Reply 4):
Honestly, stop it with these religious ruled government!

Agreed! I don't understand why religion needs to come into play with everything. Look what happened to the woman who died in Ireland because of a religious rule banning against abortion.

This religious crap really needs to stop. It throws common sense out the window.
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fr8mech
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RE: Egypt Bans Dissent

Sat Nov 24, 2012 1:34 am

Quoting AirframeAS (Reply 5):
Agreed! I don't understand why religion needs to come into play with everything.


Unfortunately, Islam is not just a religion, it is a political movement. When a religion's tenets spell out the rules of life in minute detail, that religion becomes ingrained in all facets of life.

And yes, I know that there are other religions and/or sects that look to control all facets of life, but you don't see Mennonites blowing themselves up.
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Newark727
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RE: Egypt Bans Dissent

Sat Nov 24, 2012 3:31 am

Quoting PHX787 (Reply 4):
Islamism at it's worst. Or at it's only

Mubarak was not an Islamist.

Quoting fr8mech (Reply 6):


Unfortunately, Islam is not just a religion, it is a political movement. When a religion's tenets spell out the rules of life in minute detail, that religion becomes ingrained in all facets of life.

And yes, I know that there are other religions and/or sects that look to control all facets of life, but you don't see Mennonites blowing themselves up.

You've refuted your own point. Other religions and/or sects have plenty of political activism and an all-encompassing set of rules about life is something almost all religions have, it just so happens that Islam is in a region that is extremely volatile politically and its current theology is shaped accordingly. There have been periods of religious calm in the Middle East as well as there have been periods of tumult. Furthermore most Islamic nations have only recently been brought onto the world stage and held to standards of modern, global society and as such the institutions that moderate political extremism in the United States and elsewhere are weak or work in favor of the theocratic movements.
 
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RE: Egypt Bans Dissent

Sat Nov 24, 2012 4:03 am

Quoting Newark727 (Reply 7):
You've refuted your own point. Other religions and/or sects have plenty of political activism and an all-encompassing set of rules about life is something almost all religions have, it just so happens that Islam is in a region that is extremely volatile politically and its current theology is shaped accordingly.

He has not. While other religions have their political adherents and agendas, only Islam explicitly states in its scripture that the church (or mosque) and state should be one and the same, and that any government not run as an Islamic theocracy enforcing religious law as civil and criminal law cannot be legitimate. There is no parallel in any other religion.
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fr8mech
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RE: Egypt Bans Dissent

Sat Nov 24, 2012 4:05 am

Quoting Newark727 (Reply 7):
You've refuted your own point.


No, my point was that there are plenty of religions and/or sects that impart a standard of living from which its adherents are expected to live, but rarely, except in Islam, do we see entire nations ruled by the religion.

Islam is as much a political system as it is a religion. You can't really say that about the other major religions of the world.

Quoting Newark727 (Reply 7):
Mubarak was not an Islamist.


Mubarak was a political animal who used religion when he saw advantage in using religion.

Mursi appears to be religious and is backed by the religious.

Quoting Newark727 (Reply 7):
Furthermore most Islamic nations have only recently been brought onto the world stage and held to standards of modern, global society and as such the institutions that moderate political extremism in the United States and elsewhere are weak or work in favor of the theocratic movements.


It's a very good point, and I've argued it before. But, it doesn't change the fact that these nations are on the world stage and they make the world more dangerous, not less.
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PHX787
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RE: Egypt Bans Dissent

Sat Nov 24, 2012 4:12 am

Quoting Newark727 (Reply 7):
Mubarak was not an Islamist.

I never was talking about Hosni?

Quoting fr8mech (Reply 6):
And yes, I know that there are other religions and/or sects that look to control all facets of life, but you don't see Mennonites blowing themselves up.

Precisely. A little religion doesn't hurt, except when you have to ram it down someone's throat.....with the barrel of a rifle.

Quoting fr8mech (Reply 9):
No, my point was that there are plenty of religions and/or sects that impart a standard of living from which its adherents are expected to live, but rarely, except in Islam, do we see entire nations ruled by the religion.

fr8mech's point was pretty clear.
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Venus6971
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RE: Egypt Bans Dissent

Sat Nov 24, 2012 4:23 am

How is the new boss? Same as the old boss.
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Newark727
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RE: Egypt Bans Dissent

Sat Nov 24, 2012 4:30 am

Quoting PHX787 (Reply 10):
I never was talking about Hosni?

You were quoting a post that referred to Morsi being "a clone" of Mubarak. Which while it may very well be what comes about, is not a result of Morsi's Islamism, necessarily.

Quoting fr8mech (Reply 9):

No, my point was that there are plenty of religions and/or sects that impart a standard of living from which its adherents are expected to live, but rarely, except in Islam, do we see entire nations ruled by the religion.

Depends on how you define "rarely," and depends on how you define "ruled by." Islam creates the political ideologies, but the outcomes are dependent on way more than that, and degrees of separation between religion and politics vary from country to country (though seem to be way closer than in Europe and the United States.)

Quoting fr8mech (Reply 9):

Mubarak was a political animal who used religion when he saw advantage in using religion.

Mursi appears to be religious and is backed by the religious.

True enough. Doesn't make much of a difference as to quality of governance on its own, though.

Quoting fr8mech (Reply 9):

It's a very good point, and I've argued it before. But, it doesn't change the fact that these nations are on the world stage and they make the world more dangerous, not less.

Some of them certainly do, but I sincerely doubt that that Islam as a faith has much to do with it. The pattern I see in the Arab Spring tumult is that the countries tend to be run in a kind of clan/patronage system where the leader's friends and relatives form a core faction/powerbase and benefit accordingly; it's hard to bring pluralism and self-determination into that without turning lots and lots of people against each other. It's very far from a clear parallel but it reminds me a bit of caudillos in South America. Israel and the United States form a convenient distraction and/or complication and/or excuse.
 
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RE: Egypt Bans Dissent

Sat Nov 24, 2012 6:58 am

Quoting Dreadnought (Thread starter):
So much for democracy and the rule of law in Egypt. Either the people will rise up against him and do a 'Mubarak' on him, or we may be seeing another Iran form up.


We all knew it was going to happen. They freely elected themselves another dictator. I wonder if this one will be better. The trouble with a theocracy isn't so much the lack of a moral compass, but rather that the moral compass always points north, even while your holy shock troops are raping and killing.
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RE: Egypt Bans Dissent

Sat Nov 24, 2012 8:00 am

Quoting venus6971 (Reply 11):
How is the new boss? Same as the old boss.

Same with post-Gaddafi Libya, will be same for Syria and any other country which has had a civil uprising recently. That is the biggest reason for not getting involved at all in any of these countries. No point endorsing another nutcase to replace the old nutcase. Given that they all seem hellbent on screwing up their own nations, may as well leave them to it with no outside involvement
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11Bravo
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RE: Egypt Bans Dissent

Sat Nov 24, 2012 8:12 am

Anyone surprised by this hasn't been paying attention to the Middle East for the last, well,... forever. We are still a long way from any Arab country adopting a real representative government based on the Rule of Law and acceptance of pluralism and respect for human rights. Maybe a nice little kingdom or perhaps a totalitarian theocracy would work out better for the Egyptians.
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baldwin471
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RE: Egypt Bans Dissent

Sat Nov 24, 2012 12:16 pm

Welcome to the world of an Islamic state
 
AirframeAS
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RE: Egypt Bans Dissent

Sat Nov 24, 2012 1:03 pm

Quoting 11Bravo (Reply 14):
Anyone surprised by this hasn't been paying attention to the Middle East for the last, well,... forever.

It's kinda difficult to do that when its the same old crap they pull, but on different day. People get bored of it and just move on.
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DeltaMD90
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RE: Egypt Bans Dissent

Sat Nov 24, 2012 5:59 pm

This is a bad move indeed but I'm not gonna be so fast to write off Egypt. We can't expect a 1st world democracy out of the blue, hopefully the new Egypt will be a step in the right direction. They have been helping out with the Israeli-Palestinian conflict...
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aloges
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RE: Egypt Bans Dissent

Sat Nov 24, 2012 6:55 pm

Quoting DeltaMD90 (Reply 17):
This is a bad move indeed but I'm not gonna be so fast to write off Egypt.

Exactly. The usual suspects will (or rather, have) of course wail and cry over the supposed creation of another theocracy, but the rest of us are probably going to remember how the Egyptians ousted Mubarak and realise that they haven't lost too much of that fervour:

Quote:
Anti-government protests flare across Egypt

Protesters have spent Friday night in Tahrir Square in the Egyptian capital, Cairo, to show their anger at President Mursi's adoption of sweeping new powers.

More than 100 people have been injured in clashes across Egypt after President Mohammed Mursi passed a decree giving himself almost unchecked power.

However Mr Mursi says he is leading Egypt to "freedom and democracy".
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RE: Egypt Bans Dissent

Sun Nov 25, 2012 7:30 am

Quoting aloges (Reply 18):
Exactly. The usual suspects will (or rather, have) of course wail and cry over the supposed creation of another theocracy, but the rest of us are probably going to remember how the Egyptians ousted Mubarak and realise that they haven't lost too much of that fervour:

Great. So they can elect themselves an other "proper Islamic" dictator again and again. Perhaps, one day, they will realize that their personal idea of "proper Islamic" differs from those of their neighbors enough that maybe it's best that the government not be anyone's idea of "proper Islamic."

Perhaps one day...
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Quokkas
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RE: Egypt Bans Dissent

Sun Nov 25, 2012 7:52 am

While Morsi has his supporters much of the opposition on the streets is coming from those who do not want a "proper Islamic" state. They are and have been calling for greater democracy and freedom for all Egyptians. Those are the people we should be encouraging, rather than smugly saying, "I told you so."

Couple of points to remember. Despite the protestations of the judiciary of interference with their independence, the judiciary remains in large part those appointed by Mubarak. They have been trying to block the work of the Constituent Assembly charged with drafting a new constitution. Second, Morsi has reiterated that once the Assembly has finished drafting a constitution it will be put to the vote in a referendum.

It remains to be seen if this will happen, so it may be premature to bemoan the rise of a theocratic dictatorship. The best guarantee against that happening is the continued self-organisation of the people. We might also like to remember that democracy did not just fall into place in Western Countries but arose out of decades of struggle. Why would we expect a perfect democracy in Egypt when the West was willing to prop up a regime in which the real independence of political parties was stifled?

While there is a danger that Morsi may attempt to consolidate his position, I do note that the extension of immunity to members of the Constituent Assembly is similar to the immunity enjoyed by members of parliament in Western Countries. Nor can a judge in the West typically dissolve Parliament.
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mandala499
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RE: Egypt Bans Dissent

Sun Nov 25, 2012 12:32 pm

Quoting Dreadnought (Reply 7):
only Islam explicitly states in its scripture that the church (or mosque) and state should be one and the same, and that any government not run as an Islamic theocracy enforcing religious law as civil and criminal law cannot be legitimate. There is no parallel in any other religion.

Really? I guess my country isn't Islamic   

Quoting fr8mech (Reply 8):
You can't really say that about the other major religions of the world.

And oh, how many non-Islamic countries still have an official 'state religion' ?

Back to Egypt... the people of Egypt deserve better after all they've been through... but given it has just come out of a long dictatorship... it'll take a while before it all settles down into a proper new direction... but then, Morsi making these laws, are just making it... errr... potentially way skewed! I'll just wait and see...
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Dreadnought
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RE: Egypt Bans Dissent

Sun Nov 25, 2012 4:42 pm

Quoting mandala499 (Reply 21):
Really? I guess my country isn't Islamic

Be happy about that. Most countries bow to the state religion (if they have one), but don't take everything in it fortunately.

Quoting mandala499 (Reply 21):
And oh, how many non-Islamic countries still have an official 'state religion' ?

How many of them restrict the rights of those who are not of the state religion, in civil and criminal matters, impose additional taxes on them like the Jizya?

Anyway, The point is not an Islam bash-fest. But we can't fight the problem unless we recognize that the main reason why we have a big problem with Islamic fundamentalism is that there are some pretty radical things in the Quran and Hadiths that encourage it. The same might be said about other religions, but not to the same extent - which is why we don't have as many problems with fundamentalists of those religions.
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aloges
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RE: Egypt Bans Dissent

Sun Nov 25, 2012 5:07 pm

Quoting DocLightning (Reply 19):
Perhaps one day...

That describes our own long and painful ways to democracy just perfectly.
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mandala499
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RE: Egypt Bans Dissent

Sun Nov 25, 2012 5:43 pm

Quoting Dreadnought (Reply 22):
But we can't fight the problem unless we recognize that the main reason why we have a big problem with Islamic fundamentalism is that there are some pretty radical things in the Quran and Hadiths that encourage it. The same might be said about other religions, but not to the same extent - which is why we don't have as many problems with fundamentalists of those religions.

I disagree with the "encourage"... I don't feel encouraged to do whatever they do...
Extent, also, I disagree... I've seen some pretty bad fundamentalists from the faiths here... but one thing we can agree on, they're all pretty damn freaky, and I hope none of them gets into any government!
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DocLightning
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RE: Egypt Bans Dissent

Mon Nov 26, 2012 7:33 am

Quoting Dreadnought (Reply 22):
The same might be said about other religions, but not to the same extent - which is why we don't have as many problems with fundamentalists of those religions.

I guarantee you the Bible has at least as many passages that can be taken to promote violent totalitarianism. And do. I give you the Dark Ages. And I will point out that during the Dark Ages, the Mid-East had an open, ecumenical, academic and philosophical culture with technological advances such as the development of the telescope (well, looking glasses) well before Europe invented them.

Meanwhile, Europe had the Catholic Church and the Inquisition.

The Holy Text of any religion is just paper. It is only as power as the people who wield it. The problem right now is that the people of the Mid-East are allowing their religion to govern them, rather than vice-versa. There is nothing inherent to Islam that makes it more prone to lead to dictatorship than Christianity or Judaism. It is the fact that the people in these areas are so willing to bow to authority in general that they allow religion to assume that role.
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MadameConcorde
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RE: Egypt Bans Dissent

Mon Nov 26, 2012 11:45 am

Egypt is about to go bankrupt should the present situation continue.
http://www.almasryalyoum.com/node/1266716

GOOGLE TRANSLATE
Member of the Board of the Stock Exchange: the market is experiencing its worst period in its history
...
Predicted «reconcile» Egypt announces bankruptcy within 3 months in the case of the continuation of the current situation, without taking serious measures to save the current position.

Sunday's losses on the Egyptian Exchange's EGX30 index are among the biggest since the turbulent days and weeks after the ouster of authoritarian leader Husni Mubarak last year, AP said.
http://english.alarabiya.net/articles/2012/11/25/251743.html

Demonstrators gather for more protests in Tahrir Square in Cairo.

  
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fr8mech
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RE: Egypt Bans Dissent

Mon Nov 26, 2012 2:36 pm

Quoting mandala499 (Reply 21):
And oh, how many non-Islamic countries still have an official 'state religion' ?

Having a official religion is quite different from having a religious government.
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PHX787
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RE: Egypt Bans Dissent

Mon Nov 26, 2012 4:59 pm

Quoting fr8mech (Reply 27):
Having a official religion is quite different from having a religious government.

There's a difference between governing by Sharia/Fundamentalism and just saying there's a religion in this country.
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MadameConcorde
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RE: Egypt Bans Dissent

Tue Nov 27, 2012 3:28 pm

Egypt crisis: Morsi refuses to back down
Judges say Morsi has failed to end the impasse

13:30 Back on Tahrir, Ahram Online journalist Zeinab El-Guindy reports numbers are increasing, with a diverse cross-section of society protesting against the declaration.
"Leave Morsi" and "Morsi you coward, you agent for the Americans" are the main chants, El-Guindy adds, while anti-Brotherhood banners are being hung over the square.

Egypt’s Islamist President Refuses To Back Down From His Decrees Granting Himself Near Absolute Powers

Huge protest at Tahrir, Cairo. Watch the live feeds:

http://bambuser.com/v/3181978
 
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Quokkas
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RE: Egypt Bans Dissent

Tue Nov 27, 2012 5:05 pm

Quoting fr8mech (Reply 27):
Having a official religion is quite different from having a religious government.
Quoting PHX787 (Reply 28):
There's a difference between governing by Sharia/Fundamentalism and just saying there's a religion in this country.

On the surface this may be true, but do not forget that the constitutions of some western countires, nominally democratic, require the head of state to profess a certain religion. These countries tend to be those where no one has the right to a say in choosing the head of state.

In the United Kingdom of Great Britain and Northern Ireland, for example, the Queen is head of the Church in England, despite whatever the Scottish, Welsh and Northern Irish might want.

In Norway the Constitution provides that its values are based on Christian (and humanitarian) values and establishes a State church.

These are but two examples. In both instances the law does more than simply state that there is a religion in this country. They state - in law- that a praticular religion is preferred over any other and establish a state appproved ideology. Now it may be fortunate that the people who administer those states are broad minded. But what if they weren't? The law, as stated, would support their bias. Is this acceptable on a (misguided) belief that people in Western societies are somehow more prgressive and rational than people who live elsewhere?

[Edited 2012-11-27 09:06:57]
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Dreadnought
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RE: Egypt Bans Dissent

Tue Nov 27, 2012 6:41 pm

Quoting MadameConcorde (Reply 29):
"Leave Morsi" and "Morsi you coward, you agent for the Americans" are the main chants

One might be surprised at this, but I don't recall Obama or anyone in his administration coming out and condemning in any way Morsi's decree. Of course Obama is on record saying that he wishes he did not have an opposition to deal with.

Result: Egyptians are feeling that Obama approves of Morsi's power grab. Good job.
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DeltaMD90
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RE: Egypt Bans Dissent

Tue Nov 27, 2012 6:55 pm

Quoting Dreadnought (Reply 31):
Of course Obama is on record saying that he wishes he did not have an opposition to deal with.

I highly doubt this (harmless) comment has anything to do with it.

And honestly, I was surprised myself to see this chant. I guess anything they hate is just synonymous with America
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MadameConcorde
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RE: Egypt Bans Dissent

Tue Nov 27, 2012 7:25 pm

Didn't Obama come up with some big money for Mursi and the MB after he got elected in place of Mubarak?

   

Protests are still going strong n Cairo and other cities in Egypt tonight.

Live feed in Arabic: http://www.ontv-live.com/live/
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DeltaMD90
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RE: Egypt Bans Dissent

Tue Nov 27, 2012 7:31 pm

Quoting MadameConcorde (Reply 33):
Didn't Obama come up with some big money for Mursi and the MB after he got elected in place of Mubarak?

The US (for some strange reason) just gives money to a bunch of countries, including Egypt, so I'm not sure if it's really the President's fault
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Newark727
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RE: Egypt Bans Dissent

Tue Nov 27, 2012 8:21 pm

Quoting Dreadnought (Reply 31):
One might be surprised at this, but I don't recall Obama or anyone in his administration coming out and condemning in any way Morsi's decree.

Might have had something to do with Egypt playing mediator between Israel and Hamas in Gaza. Also, a State Department spokesperson did have a few remarks about the matter, although it was more of a really weak discouragement than a condemnation as I recall.

Quoting DeltaMD90 (Reply 34):
The US (for some strange reason) just gives money to a bunch of countries, including Egypt, so I'm not sure if it's really the President's fault

One reason that we give money to Egypt is that it was a treaty obligation to do so in 1978- it's one reason why Israel's security concerns have shifted more towards the Palestinian and Lebanese terror groups and other non-state organizations rather than the Arab states that are its direct neighbors. In terms of military suppliers I think Egypt had already been moving out of the strictly Soviet camp by then anyway (though I'm not totally sure about that.) Foreign aid on other matters is a different question and discussion.
 
Quokkas
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RE: Egypt Bans Dissent

Tue Nov 27, 2012 8:24 pm

Quoting Dreadnought (Reply 31):
Result: Egyptians are feeling that Obama approves of Morsi's power grab. Good job.

Would things have been any different under a different President? We don't know but we can speculate.

The previous administration was fearful of change in Egypt. The last thing they wanted was "democracy" because it may have resulted in a victory for the Islamic Brotherhood. There are plenty who are happy to say "I told you so."

I think it fair to say that Obama wants to ensure the best for America whatever happens just as his predecessor did. Whether that benefits ordinary Egyptians is open to question. but I doubt that you will find a single politician in the US who places the interests of ordinary Egyptians ahead of the interests of the US. If they did, I suspect that you would be the first to condemn them.

Quoting DeltaMD90 (Reply 32):
I guess anything they hate is just synonymous with America

During my visits to Alexandria and Cairo I have been privileged to meet people with different views on how Egypt should develop and its relationship with the US. There is no uniform view. Some love the ideal that the US represents while condemning the application of policy in particular instances. Some welcome the ideas of liberalisation while feeling aggrieved at the disdain that is sometimes projected - the arrogant assumption that Western Ideals are intrinsically superior. Some are charitable and suggest such views are based on ignorance and a misunderstanding of how the people of Egypt in particular, and Muslims in general feel. But it is not just Muslims that feel this way. Coptic Christian friends have also expressed disquiet. Others are less charitable, just as you would expect in any country.

Please do not get me wrong and think that I think intolerance to any people is acceptable. I don't. But I am lucky enough to have lived in a number of countries and realise that whatever cultural or historical differences we have, most people want the same things.

The reality is that there is no uniform love or condemnation of the US or any other country. Some may hate. Others may love. But I can only go on what I heard and that is that it is not for others to decide what occurs in Egypt, any more than outsiders should dictate what happens in my country or the US.

[Edited 2012-11-27 12:43:48]
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PHX787
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RE: Egypt Bans Dissent

Wed Nov 28, 2012 1:57 am

Quoting MadameConcorde (Reply 33):
Didn't Obama come up with some big money for Mursi and the MB after he got elected in place of Mubarak?
Quoting DeltaMD90 (Reply 34):
The US (for some strange reason) just gives money to a bunch of countries, including Egypt, so I'm not sure if it's really the President's fault

Well Its something we really shouldn't have given anyway since we're in massive debt   

Morsi is now the new Gaddafi.....of course Gaddafi didn't rule with the Quran but both Morsi and Gaddafi refer to themselves as the "guide of the revolution." Look for Egypt to be a very awkward state to do business with in the next 40 years   
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RE: Egypt Bans Dissent

Wed Nov 28, 2012 3:16 am

Quoting PHX787 (Reply 37):
Morsi is now the new Gaddafi.....of course Gaddafi didn't rule with the Quran but both Morsi and Gaddafi refer to themselves as the "guide of the revolution."

There is no comparison, not yet. In fact, Morsi seems ready to back down partly here over the last day or two and compromise after the protests--which is a huge change from what would have happened earlier.

From http://www.guardian.co.uk/world/2012...t-protesters-descend-tahrir-square
On Monday night, after a meeting with the supreme judicial authority, the presidency issued a statement clarifying the decree and stating that Morsi would use the new powers only for "sovereign matters", which is presumed to mean anything that relates to national security.

A counter-protest planned by the Muslim Brotherhood and other Islamist groups was postponed to avoid confrontation with those inflamed by the perceived power grab. Neither of these concessions was enough to stop the protests.


I'm not defending the decrees he attempted to pass, but I am way less pessimistic about the future of Egypt than the vultures circling here waiting to say "I told you so" because of the word "Islam"...

For one, there is an incredible amount of mainly nonviolent protest energy there and I think that bodes extremely well...
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RE: Egypt Bans Dissent

Wed Nov 28, 2012 3:26 am

Thing to remember is the transition to democracy is usually hard. The US was pretty unstable after the Revolutionary War and we created a whole government that failed. I'm not defending Morsi but I'm not gonna jump on the bandwagon and write off Egypt's revolution as a failure... we can't make that determination in real time, we need to wait a couple years and see where they have gone
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MadameConcorde
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RE: Egypt Bans Dissent

Thu Nov 29, 2012 10:53 am

Some interesting facts about Egyptian President Mohammed Morsi

Morsi was born in Northern Egypt, and is the eldest brother of five. He recalls riding a donkey to school.

He earned his bachelor's and Master's degree in Engineering from Cairo University in 1978.

Morsi earned his PhD from the University of Southern California, with his dissertation being "High-Temperature Electrical Conductivity and Defect Structure of Donor-Doped Al2O3."

He was an Assistant Professor at California State University, Northridge, from 1982 to 1985.

An expert on precision metal surfaces, he worked at Nasa on the development of space shuttle engines in the early 1980s.

http://www.thenational.ae/news/world...-morsi-egypts-accidental-president

not your "average politician"

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DocLightning
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RE: Egypt Bans Dissent

Thu Nov 29, 2012 4:30 pm

Quoting MadameConcorde (Reply 40):
Morsi earned his PhD from the University of Southern California, with his dissertation being "High-Temperature Electrical Conductivity and Defect Structure of Donor-Doped Al2O3."

I never did get how a scientist can also be a religious fundamentalist. It's as if you have to turn off half of your brain to believe the crap that they spout.

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-middle-east-20536323

Quote:
In one of its first steps, the constituent assembly voted to keep sharia, or Islamic law, as the main source of legislation.
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DeltaMD90
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RE: Egypt Bans Dissent

Thu Nov 29, 2012 4:38 pm

Quoting MadameConcorde (Reply 40):
not your "average politician"

Yeah, average politicians, even the sleaziest of the bunch, rarely make full blown authoritative moves. It's very wrong, whether he rode a donkey or in a limousine as a kid
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MadameConcorde
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RE: Egypt Bans Dissent

Tue Dec 04, 2012 6:22 pm

News breaking:

Egypt's President Mursi fled the presidential Palace via Helicopter.

Morsi has escaped from the back door of the palace once the protesters surrounded his palace. Al Arabiya bureau chief: We learnt an hour ago that Morsi left Presidential Palace and went to his home

There is a huge protest on Tahrir Sq. Protesters sarcastically chanting: "Where is the helicopter? The Egyptian people are here."

Live stream (Reuters)
http://reuters.livestation.com/demo
This looks like a anti-Mursi protest. I am sure there are also pro-Mursi counter-protests.

My two questions are:
1) which side are the police
2) What will the army do?

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DocLightning
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RE: Egypt Bans Dissent

Tue Dec 04, 2012 7:07 pm

Quoting MadameConcorde (Reply 43):
Morsi has escaped from the back door of the palace once the protesters surrounded his palace. Al Arabiya bureau chief: We learnt an hour ago that Morsi left Presidential Palace and went to his home

Well, this is interesting. A second revolution? Perhaps this one will be less bloody.

Dare we hope that the Egyptians are figuring out that a theocratic government is absolutely positively a guaranteed road to dictatorship?
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DeltaMD90
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RE: Egypt Bans Dissent

Tue Dec 04, 2012 8:12 pm

Quoting DocLightning (Reply 44):
Well, this is interesting. A second revolution? Perhaps this one will be less bloody.

Dare we hope that the Egyptians are figuring out that a theocratic government is absolutely positively a guaranteed road to dictatorship?

Well I did hear that most democratic revolutions often have to go through several overthrows (and often bloodshed) to finally get a good, stable government. Not sure if that is true, but I wish the best for the Egyptians. I hope you are right
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L-188
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RE: Egypt Bans Dissent

Tue Dec 04, 2012 8:37 pm

Apparently that no protest law isnt workibg.

Sad part it mosy open up the coubtry to thar cookoo's from the muslim britherhood to move in
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MadameConcorde
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RE: Egypt Bans Dissent

Tue Dec 04, 2012 8:47 pm

News breaking:
04 December 2012, 20:10 Islamist leader to Al-Arabiya: We will declare jihad if anyone infringes on Morsi's legitimacy.
http://www.naharnet.com/

As President Morsi motorcade leaves Palace, protesters chant "Leave!"
http://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=player_embedded&v=S4O5tafMzE0

Twitter:
Tahrir Square is full. The presidential palace is under siege. Anti-Morsi demonstrations are taking place in almost every province.
https://twitter.com/3arabawy

Hosni Mubaraq    Egyptian Spring

Mohammed Mursi    Egyptian Winter?

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DocLightning
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RE: Egypt Bans Dissent

Tue Dec 04, 2012 8:48 pm

Quoting L-188 (Reply 46):
Sad part it mosy open up the coubtry to thar cookoo's from the muslim britherhood to move in

Or other extremists. Extremists offer certainty in times of turmoil. Mind you, they can't actually back up their offers, but they can make the offer.

Also, at a time when the functioning portions of the Egyptian government are already overwhelmed at trying to restore and maintain some semblance of order, it's a lot easier for extremists and terrorists to fly in under the radar.
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MadameConcorde
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RE: Egypt Bans Dissent

Tue Dec 04, 2012 8:56 pm

2035 GMT: Egypt. Alexandria tonight:
http://www.enduringamerica.com/stora...RESPACE_CACHEVERSION=1354653364443

Egypt. Protests - Reuters live feed
http://reuters.livestation.com/demo

What is to come? Civil war? is it that Egypt is fuxed... or is it just some sparse groups?

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