CXB77L
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F1 2012: Brazilian Grand Prix

Sat Nov 24, 2012 12:30 pm

So here we are at the final race of the 2012 season in Sao Paulo. At stake is the driver's championship. Vettel leads Alonso by 13 points, so:

Vettel 1st to 4th - Vettel wins title
Alonso 4th or lower - Vettel wins title
Alonso 1st and Vettel 5th or lower - Alonso wins title
Alonso 2nd and Vettel 8th or lower - Alonso wins title
Alonso 3rd and Vettel 9th or lower - Alonso wins title

In P1 and P2, Hamilton had been the quickest driver, followed by Vettel and Webber. Button was fourth in P1 and Massa fourth in P2, while Alonso was fifth in both sessions. But that could account for nought as rain is forecast on Sunday.

I've no doubt of Vettel's talents in the wet, but with wet weather comes the increased likelihood of a safety car, so a 30 second lead could turn into a 0.5 second lead in a flash. A badly timed pitstop could prove disastrous. Anything can still happen.

Hopefully, Vettel becomes F1's youngest ever triple world champion and only the third driver in F1 history to win three titles in a row.      
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CXB77L
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RE: F1 2012: Brazilian Grand Prix

Sun Nov 25, 2012 11:57 am

Qualifying's been and gone, and the McLarens seem to be unstoppable. Not to worry, Vettel doesn't need to win the race to win the title  

With Maldonado's penalty, Alonso moves up a spot on the grid and will start 7th, while Vettel starts 4th. Should be an interesting race, especially with the rain being forecast. I can't wait!
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CPH-R
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RE: F1 2012: Brazilian Grand Prix

Sun Nov 25, 2012 4:05 pm

Well that was an interesting twist to the start...
 
travelavnut
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RE: F1 2012: Brazilian Grand Prix

Sun Nov 25, 2012 4:36 pm

Haha amazing race up until now!
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iFlyLOTs
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RE: F1 2012: Brazilian Grand Prix

Sun Nov 25, 2012 5:56 pm

So. Much. Rain.   
"...stay hungry, stay foolish" -Steve Jobs
 
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Ncfc99
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RE: F1 2012: Brazilian Grand Prix

Sun Nov 25, 2012 6:54 pm

Anyone have any thoughts on Vettl overtaking under yellow? Will Ferrari appeal?
 
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moo
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RE: F1 2012: Brazilian Grand Prix

Sun Nov 25, 2012 7:03 pm

Quoting ncfc99 (Reply 5):

He didn't, it was not a yellow - it was a slippery surface warning, subtly different and carries no penalty.

This was tweeted by Martin Brundle a few minutes ago.
 
Charles79
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RE: F1 2012: Brazilian Grand Prix

Sun Nov 25, 2012 7:25 pm

Quoting CXB77L (Thread starter):
Hopefully, Vettel becomes F1's youngest ever triple world champion and only the third driver in F1 history to win three titles in a row.

Well your hopes (and mine) became a reality!!!!        

It was a thrilling race with the WDC changing hands several times depending on the conditions. Both drivers drove very measured races, being careful when they needed to be and always keeping their eyes on the bigger picture.

Vettel has now joined the most elite group in the F1 history books...with more to come I'm sure!

Charles
 
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scbriml
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RE: F1 2012: Brazilian Grand Prix

Sun Nov 25, 2012 9:16 pm

Well congratulations to Vettel.

However, IMHO, he is a VERY lucky boy. How he didn't get taken out completely on the first lap is a mystery to me. Alonso overachieved again, but it wasn't enough to take the WDC.
Time flies like an arrow. Fruit flies like a banana!
 
racko
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RE: F1 2012: Brazilian Grand Prix

Sun Nov 25, 2012 10:20 pm

In this race

- It rained. Ferrari was praying for rain.
- Alonso got moved up the grid on the clean side because of the Maldonado penalty
- Vettel gets wedged between his team mate and the pit wall at the start
- Vettel has a collision in lap 1, putting him in last place and severely damaging his car
- The damage is unfixable (i.e. not the front wing)
- Massa pushes Webber wide, allowing Alonso to overtake him
- Alonso basically requests a safety car on the radio, gets it, which moves him from 1 minute to 1 second down to P1
- Hamilton crashes out
- Hülkenberg gets a penalty that puts him behind Alonso but in front of Vettel

And Vettel still is the "VERY lucky" one? He actually has to die on track to get any sort of credit, right.

Anyway:

Three time consecutive world champions:
FANGIO - SCHUMACHER - VETTEL

Deal with it.
 
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moo
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RE: F1 2012: Brazilian Grand Prix

Sun Nov 25, 2012 10:31 pm

Would Alonso really have savoured a WDC win that came about through his opponent being taken out by the midfield rather than a race to the finish line?

Alonso got his race, and in the end he was beaten.
 
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Ncfc99
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RE: F1 2012: Brazilian Grand Prix

Sun Nov 25, 2012 10:49 pm

Quoting moo (Reply 6):
Quoting ncfc99 (Reply 5):
He didn't, it was not a yellow - it was a slippery surface warning, subtly different and carries no penalty.

This was tweeted by Martin Brundle a few minutes ago.

Thats good news, it would have tainted a win for Alonso had anthing have come of it.

Vettel thoroughly deserves the title, but Alonso has driven superbly to get a less capable within a whisker of the title. More of the same next year please.
 
flood
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RE: F1 2012: Brazilian Grand Prix

Sun Nov 25, 2012 11:35 pm

Quoting racko (Reply 9):
And Vettel still is the "VERY lucky" one? He actually has to die on track to get any sort of credit, right.

Apparently. Vettel was also fortunate to have an extra pit stop - which they then totally botched, possibly due to the radio problems the lucky chap was having  

Anyway, fantastic drive by Vettel and a well-deserved third title. A great race to end a great season.
 
CXB77L
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RE: F1 2012: Brazilian Grand Prix

Mon Nov 26, 2012 2:31 am

Quoting moo (Reply 6):
He didn't, it was not a yellow - it was a slippery surface warning, subtly different and carries no penalty.

Thanks for the clarification. We didn't get to see the replay of that particular incident on the coverage here in Australia, so I had been worried that there would be a protest of some sort.

Quoting Charles79 (Reply 7):
It was a thrilling race with the WDC changing hands several times depending on the conditions. Both drivers drove very measured races, being careful when they needed to be and always keeping their eyes on the bigger picture.

It was indeed a thrilling race. Nail biting stuff. I wasn't sure if I could stand so much excitement over two hours ... but I came through  
Quoting Charles79 (Reply 7):
Vettel has now joined the most elite group in the F1 history books...with more to come I'm sure!

Sure there will, but I doubt it'll be next year, actually, because this year Red Bull have shown signs of vulnerability with their lack of straight line speed. I think McLaren will be the team to beat next year.

Quoting flood (Reply 12):
Apparently. Vettel was also fortunate to have an extra pit stop - which they then totally botched, possibly due to the radio problems the lucky chap was having

A lot has been made about Vettel's "luck" and Alonso's lack thereof, but I think it's just bulldust, frankly, when the entire season is taken into account.

Quoting flood (Reply 12):
Anyway, fantastic drive by Vettel and a well-deserved third title. A great race to end a great season.

 checkmark 

It has been a great season. I can't remember the last time we had so many different winners in a season. The fact that Williams - my favourite team - had an unexpected race win makes it all the better for me  Smile

[Edited 2012-11-25 18:35:13]
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scbriml
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RE: F1 2012: Brazilian Grand Prix

Mon Nov 26, 2012 6:20 am

Quoting racko (Reply 9):

That's a large chip on your shoulder.   

Vettel was very lucky his car wasn't destroyed in his accident (which was his of own making). Did Vettel deserve to win the title? See below.

Quoting moo (Reply 10):
Would Alonso really have savoured a WDC win that came about through his opponent being taken out by the midfield rather than a race to the finish line?

I bet he would, as would any driver in that position. The driver with the most points at the end of the season deserves the title, regardless of how those points are accumulated.
Time flies like an arrow. Fruit flies like a banana!
 
Stealthz
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RE: F1 2012: Brazilian Grand Prix

Mon Nov 26, 2012 8:23 am

Gracious in defeat... far be it for the self centred folk at the Scuderia

Alonso-

Quoting Autosport:
"The championship was not lost here," said Alonso. "The championship was lost when [Romain] Grosjean flew over my head [at Spa] or when Vettel surprisingly only got a reprimand after qualifying in Japan.

Domenicali-

Quoting Autosport:
"Watch the facts," he said. "Zero points in two races so we have done what we have done with 18 races. The others had 20 – and the points were over 20 races. These are facts, not words."

Get over it guys you lost the championship because you were three points behind when the Chequred Flag fell at Interlagos. When the flag falls at the last race is the only time championship points count... your job is to have more at that point... you failed.
If your camera sends text messages, that could explain why your photos are rubbish!
 
sudden
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RE: F1 2012: Brazilian Grand Prix

Mon Nov 26, 2012 8:48 am

Quoting stealthz (Reply 15):
Get over it guys you lost the championship because you were three points behind when the Chequred Flag fell at Interlagos

Italian-Ferrari mentality for you.
As much as I would liked to see Alonso go home with the title, Vettel drove a good chaotic race yesterday.
When in doubt, flat out!
 
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moo
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RE: F1 2012: Brazilian Grand Prix

Mon Nov 26, 2012 10:58 am

Quoting stealthz (Reply 15):
Domenicali

He seems to ignore the fact that Vettel failed to score in three races...
 
MadameConcorde
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RE: F1 2012: Brazilian Grand Prix

Mon Nov 26, 2012 11:00 am

Sky Sports Formula 1 2012 - 20 Brazilian GP - Post-Race: Beautiful end for Schumacher

http://www.youtube.com/watch?gl=US&v=74wP-Ou3iGc

Wonderful Schumi!!! He gets to take his Silver Arrow back home with him. So well deserved.
We will be missing him on the racing tracks but I know for sure that we will be seeing him again!

        
There was a better way to fly it was called Concorde
 
Charles79
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RE: F1 2012: Brazilian Grand Prix

Mon Nov 26, 2012 3:01 pm

Quoting racko (Reply 9):
And Vettel still is the "VERY lucky" one? He actually has to die on track to get any sort of credit, right.

Excellent summary!

Yes, Vettel is "lucky" in the sense that his race wasn't worse than it was (after all, that recurrent alternator issue could've re-appeared and finished his race completely) but to claim that Alonso (or any other top driver) did not receive outside help is simply rubbish. Alonso failed to score in two races? Vettel failed to score in three. Alonso didn't have a top car to compete with? Well, the Red Bull wasn't the top car in many races this season.

What we learned this season, though, is that both drivers tried and did extract the most out of their machinery (simply look at the gigantic gap in points between Vettel and Webber or Alonso and Massa). Both drivers were lucky in their own way but at the same time they both drove brilliantly when it mattered during the season. Most drivers are either lucky or good...World Champions are both lucky and good.

Quoting CXB77L (Reply 13):
Sure there will, but I doubt it'll be next year, actually, because this year Red Bull have shown signs of vulnerability with their lack of straight line speed. I think McLaren will be the team to beat next year.

I suspect that you might be right...McLaren does have a compelling package and it was the car to beat for most of this season (the botched up pit stops during the opening rounds robbed them of a potentially better result). Unfortunately for McLaren their best driver left, leaving the team with a large gulf in capability between its drivers next season.
 
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moo
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RE: F1 2012: Brazilian Grand Prix

Mon Nov 26, 2012 3:31 pm

Quoting Charles79 (Reply 19):
the botched up pit stops during the opening rounds robbed them of a potentially better result

And the gearbox reliability issues robbed them of quite a few points in the end...
 
sudden
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RE: F1 2012: Brazilian Grand Prix

Wed Nov 28, 2012 6:59 am

Not sure how desperate Kamui is, but looking at the following I say pretty screwed up desperate!
http://www.autosport.com/news/report.php/id/104619

This is more embarrassing then fun. An F1 driver having to do this means your out of business dude!
When in doubt, flat out!
 
bill142
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RE: F1 2012: Brazilian Grand Prix

Wed Nov 28, 2012 7:20 am

Quoting moo (Reply 20):
And the gearbox reliability issues robbed them of quite a few points in the end...

Had Hamilton finished in Singapore it would have added a different dynamic to the championship. But no sense contemplating what ifs.

Quoting Charles79 (Reply 19):
I suspect that you might be right...McLaren does have a compelling package and it was the car to beat for most of this season (the botched up pit stops during the opening rounds robbed them of a potentially better result). Unfortunately for McLaren their best driver left, leaving the team with a large gulf in capability between its drivers next season.

Sometimes I think McLarens system driven environment does them more harm then good.

Quoting sudden (Reply 21):
This is more embarrassing then fun. An F1 driver having to do this means your out of business dude!

Look at what happened to Rubens and Kamui has nothing on him.
 
sudden
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RE: F1 2012: Brazilian Grand Prix

Wed Nov 28, 2012 8:39 am

Quoting Bill142 (Reply 22):
Look at what happened to Rubens and Kamui has nothing on him.

Kamui is just a has been. And that's about it. Having his fans raise money for him is just sad.
When in doubt, flat out!
 
bill142
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RE: F1 2012: Brazilian Grand Prix

Wed Nov 28, 2012 8:53 am

Quoting sudden (Reply 23):
Kamui is just a has been. And that's about it. Having his fans raise money for him is just sad.

Was probably all from 1 fan anyway.
 
sudden
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RE: F1 2012: Brazilian Grand Prix

Wed Nov 28, 2012 8:55 am

Quoting Bill142 (Reply 24):
Was probably all from 1 fan anyway.

yeah, MadameC!
When in doubt, flat out!
 
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moo
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RE: F1 2012: Brazilian Grand Prix

Wed Nov 28, 2012 11:48 am

http://maxgif.com/8cA

Says it all really  
 
sudden
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RE: F1 2012: Brazilian Grand Prix

Wed Nov 28, 2012 11:56 am

Bottas and Maldonado confirmed for next year
http://www.formula1.com/news/headlines/2012/11/14133.html

And Montezemolo is at it again! Why not simply accept being defeated instead of start firing staff and so forth. In my mind he's major a$$hole!
http://www.autosport.com/news/report.php/id/104616

[Edited 2012-11-28 03:59:58]
When in doubt, flat out!
 
MadameConcorde
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RE: F1 2012: Brazilian Grand Prix

Wed Nov 28, 2012 12:06 pm

Quoting sudden (Reply 23):
Kamui is just a has been. And that's about it

Following your logic and looking at the 2012 F1 WDC standings, there is a good number of more "has beens" than KK including the only 7 times F1 world champion Michael Schumacher!

I suppose that from Charles Pic down to Pedro de la Rosa they are all "super has been" according to your logic?

This is your full list of Formula 1 "has beens".

12 Kamui Kobayashi Japanese Sauber-Ferrari 60
13 Michael Schumacher German Mercedes 49
14 Paul di Resta British Force India-Mercedes 46
15 Pastor Maldonado Venezuelan Williams-Renault 45
16 Bruno Senna Brazilian Williams-Renault 31
17 Jean-Eric Vergne French STR-Ferrari 16
18 Daniel Ricciardo Australian STR-Ferrari 10
19 Vitaly Petrov Russian Caterham-Renault 0
20 Timo Glock German Marussia-Cosworth 0
21 Charles Pic French Marussia-Cosworth 0
22 Heikki Kovalainen Finnish Caterham-Renault 0
23 Jerome D'Ambrosio Belgian Lotus-Renault 0
24 Narain Karthikeyan Indian HRT-Cosworth 0
25 Pedro de la Rosa Spanish HRT-Cosworth 0


I have another list of "has beens" according to your logic at the final GP in Brazil

9 14 Kamui Kobayashi Sauber-Ferrari 71 +31.2 secs 14 2
10 9 Kimi Räikkönen Lotus-Renault 70 +1 Lap 8 1
11 21 Vitaly Petrov Caterham-Renault 70 +1 Lap 19
12 25 Charles Pic Marussia-Cosworth 70 +1 Lap 22
13 16 Daniel Ricciardo STR-Ferrari 70 +1 Lap 15
14 20 Heikki Kovalainen Caterham-Renault 70 +1 Lap 20
15 8 Nico Rosberg Mercedes 70 +1 Lap 9
16 24 Timo Glock Marussia-Cosworth 70 +1 Lap 21
17 22 Pedro de la Rosa HRT-Cosworth 69 +2 Laps 24
18 23 Narain Karthikeyan HRT-Cosworth 69 +2 Laps 23
19 11 Paul di Resta Force India-Mercedes 68 +3 Laps 10
Ret 4 Lewis Hamilton McLaren-Mercedes 54 Accident 1
Ret 10 Romain Grosjean Lotus-Renault 5 Accident 18
Ret 18 Pastor Maldonado Williams-Renault 1 Accident 16
Ret 19 Bruno Senna Williams-Renault 0 Accident 11
Ret 15 Sergio Perez Sauber-Ferrari 0 Accident 12


Your hero Nico Hulkenberg, Kamui's replacement at Sauber, was not even capable of scoring one podium during the whole 2012 season. At least Maldonado managed to win a race.

I wonder... what has Kamui done to you personally that you hate him so much?

    Wow!
There was a better way to fly it was called Concorde
 
sudden
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RE: F1 2012: Brazilian Grand Prix

Wed Nov 28, 2012 12:40 pm

Quoting MadameConcorde (Reply 28):
Following your logic and looking at the 2012 F1 WDC standings, there is a good number of more "has beens" than KK including the only 7 times F1 world champion Michael Schumacher!

If you want to try and throw something at me, then try to do it properly.
Schumi is great has been driving around in his own shadow. He finally leaves the sport.
And looking at your so called stats it holds no ground. Has Kamui a drive for next year? No! Charles Pic advancing up the grid, not outside it!
So again, do at least try to throw something at me that makes sence.
I know, for you that will be very difficult as you simply know nothing about the sport in general.
When in doubt, flat out!
 
MadameConcorde
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RE: F1 2012: Brazilian Grand Prix

Wed Nov 28, 2012 12:51 pm

Quoting sudden (Reply 29):
you simply know nothing about the sport in general.

... as if you knew anything about it yourself.
I was already hanging out at Le Mans while you wasn't even born.

    
There was a better way to fly it was called Concorde
 
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moo
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RE: F1 2012: Brazilian Grand Prix

Wed Nov 28, 2012 12:52 pm

Quoting MadameConcorde (Reply 28):

Poor poor MadameConcorde, all her favourites are turning out to be drivers no one wants to employ any more...

Can't say much else about Kobayashi than that - no one wants to employ him. Nuff said really. He had 5 years to migrate from being a pay driver to being a paid driver, and he failed miserably - within 5 years, Vettel had gone from rookie to second in the WDC.

So yes, hes a has-been - he had his chance, he failed to improve and now he vacates his seat for someone else.
 
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moo
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RE: F1 2012: Brazilian Grand Prix

Wed Nov 28, 2012 12:53 pm

Quoting MadameConcorde (Reply 30):
I was already hanging out at Le Mans while you wasn't even born.

That doesn't give you authority, it just gives you age  
 
sudden
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RE: F1 2012: Brazilian Grand Prix

Wed Nov 28, 2012 1:07 pm

Quoting MadameConcorde (Reply 30):
I was already hanging out at Le Mans while you wasn't even born.

Trust me, that's nothing to be proud of.
When in doubt, flat out!
 
MadameConcorde
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RE: F1 2012: Brazilian Grand Prix

Wed Nov 28, 2012 1:12 pm

Quoting moo (Reply 31):
Poor poor MadameConcorde, all her favourites are turning out to be drivers no one wants to employ any more...

I like all F1 drivers. When was the last time you heard me saying anything bad about any or all? I may get saying something bad about their sponsors or close entourage (re: Hugo Chavez) but never the drivers themselves.

They all come and go. All of them. Be them Japanese or other.

No one is ever going to take Schumi's 7 World titles away from him. Let's see how long it will take for any driver to come up with a 7 title to equal Schumi. Not a done deal.

As to age, I would never want to be any other age or trade for anyone else's life. I am quite happy to be where I am at and in my shoes. Thanks.

     
There was a better way to fly it was called Concorde
 
sudden
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RE: F1 2012: Brazilian Grand Prix

Wed Nov 28, 2012 1:24 pm

Quoting MadameConcorde (Reply 34):
I like all F1 drivers. When was the last time you heard me saying anything bad about any or all?

I think you need to look at your history on Anet, and you will for sure find several examples.

Quoting MadameConcorde (Reply 34):
They all come and go. All of them.

With Kamui going pretty fast. All the hype surrounding him was just crap as he did not climb the latter when he had the chance to. Now he can go race in DTM at the back of that grid with R. Schumacher. That's where most of the trash from F1 seem to end up.
When in doubt, flat out!
 
na
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RE: F1 2012: Brazilian Grand Prix

Wed Nov 28, 2012 1:26 pm

Didnt see the race, as I was in my own on the Autobahn somewhere near Hamburg at that time and unhappily scored a point ;-(
Sounds like Vettel drove like a Champ. Congratulations to him, but I need to add that I still think the secondbest driver won the title this year.
 
na
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RE: F1 2012: Brazilian Grand Prix

Wed Nov 28, 2012 1:31 pm

Quoting sudden (Reply 27):
And Montezemolo is at it again! Why not simply accept being defeated instead of start firing staff and so forth. In my mind he's major a$$hole!
http://www.autosport.com/news/report...04616

Hello??????
Everything he says in this article is right, so why your hatred? And he doesnt say he will fire someone, only that the mistakes made in the early season shall not be repeated as it cost Ferrari the title. What can be more true I ask you?
 
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moo
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RE: F1 2012: Brazilian Grand Prix

Wed Nov 28, 2012 1:36 pm

Quoting MadameConcorde (Reply 34):
When was the last time you heard me saying anything bad about any or all?

I never said you did - however, it is clear from these threads that you have favourites...
 
EZEIZA
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RE: F1 2012: Brazilian Grand Prix

Wed Nov 28, 2012 1:37 pm

Hey ladies & gents ... I'm still recovering fron Sunday's race. Simply amazing. Could not have asked for a better race even though the result was not great!

Quoting stealthz (Reply 15):
Get over it guys you lost the championship because you were three points behind when the Chequred Flag fell at Interlagos. When the flag falls at the last race is the only time championship points count... your job is to have more at that point... you failed.

Well .. kind of. Ferrari failed in providing a fast car, but it did not fail in providing an unbreakable car. The fact remains that the only two races where Alonso did not get any points were becuase he suffered a crash. No mistake by Alonso or by Ferrari in those instances ..

Quoting sudden (Reply 16):
As much as I would liked to see Alonso go home with the title, Vettel drove a good chaotic race yesterday.

Honestly? He nearly ruined everything because of a poor start, and then just struggled to stay on track. I like Vettel usually, but he seemed sh*t scared on Sunday (which gven the circumstances, is understandable and by no means am I criticizing him for that).

Quoting moo (Reply 17):
He seems to ignore the fact that Vettel failed to score in three races...

But becaue of their mistake (team or driver).

And by the way, had this been the other way around, this thread would literally be on fire .... but Vettel should have recieved a penalty. Now .. should Ferrari claim this or not?

http://www.marca.com/2012/11/27/motor/formula1/1354040626.html
Carp aunque ganes o pierdas ...
 
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moo
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RE: F1 2012: Brazilian Grand Prix

Wed Nov 28, 2012 1:42 pm

Quoting EZEIZA (Reply 39):
But becaue of their mistake (team or driver).

The no-points score in Malaysia was due to Karthikeyan (who received a 20 second time penalty) - if he had remained in 4th position, he would have scored and extra 12 points.
 
EZEIZA
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RE: F1 2012: Brazilian Grand Prix

Wed Nov 28, 2012 1:51 pm

Quoting moo (Reply 40):
The no-points score in Malaysia was due to Karthikeyan (who received a 20 second time penalty) - if he had remained in 4th position, he would have scored and extra 12 points.

Fair enough .. what about the other two? The math is pretty straight forward. Just with Grosjean's stunt the title would have gone to Alonso.
Carp aunque ganes o pierdas ...
 
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moo
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RE: F1 2012: Brazilian Grand Prix

Wed Nov 28, 2012 1:58 pm

Quoting EZEIZA (Reply 41):
Just with Grosjean's stunt the title would have gone to Alonso.

And without Sennas stunt in Brazil, Vettel might have finished a lot higher than 6th...

Without Grosjeans stunt, Hamilton might have stayed in contention for a lot longer...

If buts and maybes - the title belongs to the winner, not the perhaps...
 
MadameConcorde
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RE: F1 2012: Brazilian Grand Prix

Wed Nov 28, 2012 2:04 pm

Quoting na (Reply 37):
Quoting sudden (Reply 27):
And Montezemolo is at it again! Why not simply accept being defeated instead of start firing staff and so forth. In my mind he's major a$$hole!
http://www.autosport.com/news/report...04616

Hello??????
Everything he says in this article is right, so why your hatred? And he doesnt say he will fire someone, only that the mistakes made in the early season shall not be repeated as it cost Ferrari the title. What can be more true I ask you?

Well it seems that the poster knows more about F1 than anyone else, including Montezemolo himself.

Luca Cordero di Montezemolo, an attorney by trade, is no newbie and a great man. Former chairman of Maserati and of the Fiat Group, he certainly knows what he is talking about regarding the Ferrari team - the strong and weak points, Ferrari in general, he is a splendid manager and a man of value, one day to become the Italian Prime Minister.

--http://online.wsj.com/article/SB10001424053111903927204576574544264598296.html--

 

[Edited 2012-11-28 06:09:42]
There was a better way to fly it was called Concorde
 
EZEIZA
Posts: 4421
Joined: Sat Aug 21, 2004 12:09 am

RE: F1 2012: Brazilian Grand Prix

Wed Nov 28, 2012 2:15 pm

Quoting moo (Reply 42):
And without Sennas stunt in Brazil, Vettel might have finished a lot higher than 6th...

ehh ... no, Vettel found himself in that position because he had a crappy start in the first place.
Carp aunque ganes o pierdas ...
 
sudden
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RE: F1 2012: Brazilian Grand Prix

Wed Nov 28, 2012 2:22 pm

Quoting MadameConcorde (Reply 43):
Well it seems that the poster knows more about F1 than anyone else, including Montezemolo himself.

And again, if you want to throw anything at me, try to at least be constructive.

Quoting na (Reply 37):
Hello??????

Eh, hello!?  
It's the same story every time Ferrari loses out. Result is that heads are rolling as they need to blame at least someone.
When in doubt, flat out!
 
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moo
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RE: F1 2012: Brazilian Grand Prix

Wed Nov 28, 2012 2:24 pm

Quoting EZEIZA (Reply 44):
ehh ... no, Vettel found himself in that position because he had a crappy start in the first place.

Ahh so we can speculate about Alonso, but we can't about Vettel?

That's fairly ridiculous, and makes further discussion pointless.
 
MadameConcorde
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RE: F1 2012: Brazilian Grand Prix

Wed Nov 28, 2012 2:24 pm

Quoting moo (Reply 42):
And without Sennas stunt in Brazil, Vettel might have finished a lot higher than 6th...

Senna lost his seat with Williams. Will you call him a "has been" the same you did with KK?
http://www.formula1.com/news/headlines/2012/11/14133.html

    Wow!  
There was a better way to fly it was called Concorde
 
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moo
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RE: F1 2012: Brazilian Grand Prix

Wed Nov 28, 2012 2:27 pm

Quoting MadameConcorde (Reply 47):
Senna lost his seat with Williams. Will you call him a "has been" the same you did with KK?

If no one wants to employ him, then yes.

Next question?
 
MadameConcorde
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RE: F1 2012: Brazilian Grand Prix

Wed Nov 28, 2012 2:29 pm

Quoting moo (Reply 46):
so we can speculate about Alonso

Fernando Alonso is the driver of the year the same as Ferrari are the team of the year. They did as much as they could this season and the mistakes were minimal. Missed the WDC by 3 pts and claimed 2nd in WCC agaist McLaren who had a faster car maybe a better driver lineup.

  
There was a better way to fly it was called Concorde

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