n318ea
Topic Author
Posts: 117
Joined: Thu Aug 17, 2006 7:56 pm

Massive Media Benghazi Failure Continues

Sun Dec 16, 2012 4:54 pm

It is now 3 + months and still no answers on Benghazi! First Ambassador Rice withdraws her unofficial non-nomination for Secretary of State. Now SOS Clinton has a concussion and can't testify. If Ambassador Rice had to go through hearings on Capital Hill the "most transparent and open administration" would have had to be exactly that for once. Now 3 months plus and the Obama State Department Investigation is still not ready for release? Suddenly SOS Clinton falls and has a boo-boo. B$! SOS Clinton didn’t want to lie then and won't lie now.
How can it take 3+ months to investigate what everyone already knows? Watergate brought Nixon down and no one died. The Obama Administration should NOT face impeachment over Benghazi but should be held accountable for what it was, a massive failure to protect our Embassy’s and its personnel in light of available intelligence and it's lying/covering up these facts to the American public. The Lame Stream Media gives a pass to this POTUS on just about everything and now doesn't make any attempt to go through the motions of non biased reporting.
I realize this forum is an exchange of ideology and does nothing to change ones opinions. I believe a person will watch/read the media that best suites ones ideology as well. I know I'm guilty in spite of my attempts to watch MSNBC. This does not excuse the major networks failure at any attempt of objectivity on this event.
Red Red Red Red Red Neck!
 
User avatar
DeltaMD90
Posts: 8245
Joined: Tue Apr 15, 2008 11:25 pm

RE: Massive Media Benghazi Failure Continues

Sun Dec 16, 2012 5:05 pm

Quoting n318ea (Thread starter):
I realize this forum is an exchange of ideology and does nothing to change ones opinions.

I've changed my opinion a lot of times due to this board

Quoting n318ea (Thread starter):
The Lame Stream Media

Just checked Fox New's website, couldn't find anything about Benghazi on their page... maybe they're just waiting for the investigation to come out instead of shooting at the hip?

Didn't the Lebanon bombing investigation take a year and a half?

Should we demand them to rush out a half *** report or should we do it right? I have a feeling no matter the time frame, if it says anything favorable about the Obama administration, it will be torn down as corruption and bias.

I mean when you have people saying that Clinton getting a concussion is a conspiracy to not give an account of Benghazi it really, really makes me want to ignore that side. I fight the urge to do so and hear them out, but it's ridiculous watching this event unfold. EVERY little fact that came out was somehow a reason to call out the President, now every little fact that ISN'T coming out is reason to criticize him.

Unless there is something new coming out (not Hillary Clinton jumping on her head to cover up the "truth") I don't see the point in making a big deal.

Keep it in the back of your mind, wait for the investigation, then draw conclusions from the facts
Ironically I have never flown a Delta MD-90 :)
 
Mir
Posts: 19092
Joined: Mon Jan 05, 2004 3:55 am

RE: Massive Media Benghazi Failure Continues

Sun Dec 16, 2012 5:34 pm

Quoting n318ea (Thread starter):
Suddenly SOS Clinton falls and has a boo-boo. B$! SOS Clinton didn’t want to lie then and won't lie now.

Yes, I'm sure she planned that fall so that she wouldn't have to testify. Oh wait, she'll still have to testify after she recovers, so it didn't gain her anything except a concussion.  
Quoting n318ea (Thread starter):
How can it take 3+ months to investigate what everyone already knows?

What is it, pray tell, that everyone already knows?

Quoting DeltaMD90 (Reply 1):
Just checked Fox New's website, couldn't find anything about Benghazi on their page... maybe they're just waiting for the investigation to come out instead of shooting at the hip?

Which would be the first intelligent thing they've done on Benghazi, ever.

-Mir
7 billion, one nation, imagination...it's a beautiful day
 
Geezer
Posts: 1413
Joined: Wed Aug 18, 2010 4:37 am

RE: Massive Media Benghazi Failure Continues

Sun Dec 16, 2012 6:43 pm

Quoting Mir (Reply 2):
Which would be the first intelligent thing they've done on Benghazi, ever.

You forgot to add "IMHO" after all of "that"; it's "not news" that you aren't "big" on Fox News, but at the proverbial "end of the day", I'm pretty certain that if there's ever a contest to determine which network fails to report the facts the most times per year, Fox News won't win that contest............

And as for our esteemed "former" (?) Sec/State, just remember the old adage, "If it looks like a duck, if it walks like a duck, if it quacks like a duck,........it's PROBABLY a duck ! ( and if she DID "jump on her head" in order to stone-wall this issue, it certainly wouldn't be the first time she's managed to "side step" telling the truth, relative to facts surrounding someone's "untimely demise". (anyone remember Vince Foster ?)

Charley
Stupidity: Doing the same thing over and over again and expecting a different result; Albert Einstein
 
User avatar
DeltaMD90
Posts: 8245
Joined: Tue Apr 15, 2008 11:25 pm

RE: Massive Media Benghazi Failure Continues

Sun Dec 16, 2012 6:49 pm

Quoting Geezer (Reply 3):
I'm pretty certain that if there's ever a contest to determine which network fails to report the facts the most times per year, Fox News won't win that contest............

I don't really listen to the mainstream outlets, but even at the height of the discussions on Benghazi, I saw, from all the other news outlets, the same stuff being reported about Benghazi. I don't know why this claim about most media outlets "ignoring" it. Can't speak for Fox News, but the conservative talk radio outlets were not only reporting it, they were jumping to conclusions every step of the way that, coincidentally, made the President look bad.

That is my issue with it.

If we find that I am wrong and there was indeed an egregious cover up or incompetence, you won't see me on here twisting facts around to prove how I wasn't wrong or whatever, I'd join in with the criticism. But the most "compelling" evidence I've seen so far has been weak to say the least.

And that's not because I'm "uninformed," "ignorant," or a "sheeple listening to the lamestream media..."
Ironically I have never flown a Delta MD-90 :)
 
cedarjet
Posts: 8101
Joined: Mon May 24, 1999 1:12 am

RE: Massive Media Benghazi Failure Continues

Sun Dec 16, 2012 6:58 pm

Give it up on Benghazi, for god's sake. You think the mainstream media are "giving Obama a pass", but you don't care about the thousands of American soldiers and contractors killed needlessly in Iraq (not to mention the hundreds of thousands of innocent Iraqis) because that would make your beloved Republicans look bad. The fact that George W Bush along with Cheney Rumsfeld and Rice aren't in prison for treason proves the bias in America is the opposite of what you claim it to be.

So even if mistakes were made in Libya, which I guess they were, links to Obama and the administration are tenuous at best - do you think it's Obama's role, or that of any political appointee, to decide the level of protection given to embassies in far off lands in the middle of war zones? Or do you think it's the role of career security professionals who know the job and do their best for America every day?

So what exactly is the scandal? And why is this a much greater crime than the invasion of Iraq that killed a million people including thousands, THOUSANDS of your precious Americans?
fly Saha Air 707s daily from Tehran's downtown Mehrabad to Mashhad, Kish Island and Ahwaz
 
User avatar
yyz717
Posts: 15689
Joined: Mon Sep 10, 2001 12:26 pm

RE: Massive Media Benghazi Failure Continues

Sun Dec 16, 2012 7:23 pm

This issue isn't even about Libya anymore. Even initially, did it even MATTER if the riots were due to one issue or another? I think not.

This issue is now (indeed, perhaps has always been) about partisan bickering between 2 entrenched parties.

Quoting n318ea (Thread starter):
Now SOS Clinton has a concussion and can't testify.

Or is REFUSING to testify, using the consussion as an excuse. Who knows? Anyway, what would she be testifying about? Who said what, and when? Who cares......
I dumped at the gybe mark in strong winds when I looked up at a Porter Q400 on finals. Can't stop spotting.
 
rfields5421
Posts: 5545
Joined: Thu Jul 19, 2007 12:45 am

RE: Massive Media Benghazi Failure Continues

Sun Dec 16, 2012 7:31 pm

Quoting n318ea (Thread starter):
a massive failure to protect our Embassy’s and its personnel in light of available intelligence

I believe you've never worked in the intelligence field. It is the easiest thing in the world to look at the information after something happens and say - this, this and this - all point out what was going to happen. Why didn't anyone see it?

They don't see it because they are each looking at hundreds of intercepts, analysis and estimates daily, thousands on any single subject. And things slip through. They never stand out as clear as they do in hindsight.

Even I don't blame President Bush for choosing to invade Iraq with what we can now see as the massive evidence Saddam did not have WMD, which was a bigger failure to use the available intelligence.

No body, no administration, no government department - gets everything right. Heck, most would be happy to get 50% right.

The process is pretty standard.

The people who have to make the decision use their own knowledge and experience, the information thought important by people they trust, the information available from other sources - and make decisions.

You do the same thing when you go to have lunch in a strange town/ restaurant. If you've never picked a lunch that turned out to be a mistake - you might have some basis to complain.

And you might want to consider applying for a job of looking at hundreds of pages per day and picking out one or two important phrases.

Quoting n318ea (Thread starter):
still no answers on Benghazi!

Benghazi may have been a mistake. We will never know the details because they must remain classified, or risk the lives of intelligence sources.

Frankly, I think the focus on Benghazi played a big part in getting President Obama re-elected.

Republican and conservative supporters of the Romney campaign got side tracked on this relatively minor issue and 'lost the big picture'.

They focused on something which will never be a big issue for the American people - and quit campaigning on the President's record on the economy.

FoxNews basically chose to not make the economy an issue and focus on Benghazi. Best think that could have happened for the Obama re-election bid.
 
User avatar
DeltaMD90
Posts: 8245
Joined: Tue Apr 15, 2008 11:25 pm

RE: Massive Media Benghazi Failure Continues

Sun Dec 16, 2012 7:38 pm

Quoting rfields5421 (Reply 8):
I believe you've never worked in the intelligence field. It is the easiest thing in the world to look at the information after something happens and say - this, this and this - all point out what was going to happen. Why didn't anyone see it?

They don't see it because they are each looking at hundreds of intercepts, analysis and estimates daily, thousands on any single subject. And things slip through. They never stand out as clear as they do in hindsight.

   There are probably dozens of Benghazi-like situations today... calls for more security. If everyone got everything they requested for working for the government/military we'd be broke now. Looking back, it appears the call for more security was the right one, let's learn from it. But is it hard to believe that there have been hundreds of cases where more security has been requested and nothing bad happened? Hindsight is 20/20

Quoting rfields5421 (Reply 8):
Even I don't blame President Bush for choosing to invade Iraq with what we can now see as the massive evidence Saddam did not have WMD, which was a bigger failure to use the available intelligence.

I agree. Although the invasion order may have been really hasty, our intelligence (and from other nations) really did point to WMDs. Again, worse than the initial mistake is not learning from it, which is why I'm really concern for the calls for military action on Iran

Quoting rfields5421 (Reply 8):
No body, no administration, no government department - gets everything right. Heck, most would be happy to get 50% right.

      I've said it before, and I truly believe it... if the Second Coming of Jesus himself got elected US President (as a Democrat) the GOP could find something wrong in every decision he made. Don't want to single out the GOP, the Democrats can be pretty bad, but on the topic of Benghazi I found the GOP's actions deplorable
Ironically I have never flown a Delta MD-90 :)
 
mham001
Posts: 4179
Joined: Thu Feb 03, 2005 4:52 am

RE: Massive Media Benghazi Failure Continues

Sun Dec 16, 2012 7:40 pm

Quoting yyz717 (Reply 6):
This issue isn't even about Libya anymore. Even initially, did it even MATTER if the riots were due to one issue or another? I think not.

That is correct. It is not simple party bickering however. There are some serious questions about decisions made leading up to the incident and who made them. This is were the stonewalling begins, possibly to protect people Obama would like to keep and promote. It is in everybody's interest to get the truth there.

The Susan Rice thing is just a sideshow and a silly one at that. She was just the only available administration messenger that morning and has nothing to do with Libyan security or State Department policies.
 
PHX787
Posts: 7877
Joined: Thu Mar 15, 2012 7:46 pm

RE: Massive Media Benghazi Failure Continues

Sun Dec 16, 2012 7:50 pm

Well this is partially why i watch FOX- they ask the questions needed to be answered.
Follow me on twitter: www.twitter.com/phx787
 
User avatar
DeltaMD90
Posts: 8245
Joined: Tue Apr 15, 2008 11:25 pm

RE: Massive Media Benghazi Failure Continues

Sun Dec 16, 2012 8:15 pm

Quoting PHX787 (Reply 11):
Well this is partially why i watch FOX- they ask the questions needed to be answered.

Which is why they are totally reporting on it now??
Ironically I have never flown a Delta MD-90 :)
 
Ken777
Posts: 9020
Joined: Thu Mar 11, 2004 5:39 am

RE: Massive Media Benghazi Failure Continues

Sun Dec 16, 2012 8:37 pm

Quoting n318ea (Thread starter):
The Obama Administration should NOT face impeachment over Benghazi but should be held accountable for what it was,

If anyone should face any legal action then we need to look at General/Director David Petraeus for the possible failure to protect classified from his biographer/shack-up.

We also need to be very clear that it was General/Director David Petraeus who was in charge of the CIA when Ambassador Rice was given the talking points. I can understand that the Directors mind was elsewhere, but find it queer as hell that the GOP Senators raising so much hell apparently FORGOT who give Rice the talking points.

Quoting rfields5421 (Reply 8):
Frankly, I think the focus on Benghazi played a big part in getting President Obama re-elected.

The total failure of the GOP to be a political party that addresses the needs of the middle class (much less the poor) is the reason for the election. It was simply a money grab election for the GOP and the voters understood this.

That brought up the abusive attacks against Rice. It wasn't because she delivered the talking points developed by Petraeus, it was because the GOP got whipped in the election. Going after Rice & pushing Kerry would give the GOP a chance to bring back Senator Brown (R-MA) from the deal.

There was no other reason. Even McCain saying that Rice was not too bright is a farce. With a Ba from Stanford and a PhD from Oxford Rice far overshadowed McCain who was FIFTH from the BOTTOM in his class at Annapolis. We know which of the two isn't the brightest.
 
seb146
Posts: 13756
Joined: Wed Dec 01, 1999 7:19 am

RE: Massive Media Benghazi Failure Continues

Sun Dec 16, 2012 9:20 pm

Quoting mham001 (Reply 10):
This is were the stonewalling begins, possibly to protect people Obama would like to keep and promote. It is in everybody's interest to get the truth there.

Yeah. It would never be that there is intel they need to keep out of public view. That would never happen when CIA is involved, would it?

Funny how we demanded to rush into war with half-baked intelligence and that was great but when a CIA outpost is attacked, half-baked intelligence is demanded instead of actually waiting for every piece of evidence.

Quoting Ken777 (Reply 13):
We also need to be very clear that it was General/Director David Petraeus who was in charge of the CIA when Ambassador Rice was given the talking points. I can understand that the Directors mind was elsewhere, but find it queer as hell that the GOP Senators raising so much hell apparently FORGOT who give Rice the talking points.

With the right-wing, the buck stops at where ever makes Obama look worst. Plus, with Rice out of the picture, John Kerry is roumered to be the front runner. That means an open seat in the Senate the right-wing hopes to fill with one of their own.
Life in the wall is a drag.
 
PHX787
Posts: 7877
Joined: Thu Mar 15, 2012 7:46 pm

RE: Massive Media Benghazi Failure Continues

Sun Dec 16, 2012 9:25 pm

Quoting DeltaMD90 (Reply 12):
Which is why they are totally reporting on it now??
CT School Shooting (by stlgph Dec 14 2012 in Non Aviation)
Follow me on twitter: www.twitter.com/phx787
 
Mir
Posts: 19092
Joined: Mon Jan 05, 2004 3:55 am

RE: Massive Media Benghazi Failure Continues

Sun Dec 16, 2012 9:38 pm

Quoting DeltaMD90 (Reply 9):
I've said it before, and I truly believe it... if the Second Coming of Jesus himself got elected US President (as a Democrat) the GOP could find something wrong in every decision he made.

I'm sure the phrase "Jesus In Name Only" would be flying around. And we'd need to see his birth certificate just to make sure he wasn't born in Mexico, because you never know with that name...

It really is out of control.

-Mir
7 billion, one nation, imagination...it's a beautiful day
 
n318ea
Topic Author
Posts: 117
Joined: Thu Aug 17, 2006 7:56 pm

RE: Massive Media Benghazi Failure Continues

Sun Dec 16, 2012 10:00 pm

Just for your info I only watch 1 hour of Fox Brett Baier @ 1800 hrs. I am a Tea Party supporter and I LIKE Glenn Beck. I am also a proud Life Member of NRA.

Nothing to see here folks move along. All is well.  

[Edited 2012-12-16 14:20:59]

[Edited 2012-12-16 14:21:50]
Red Red Red Red Red Neck!
 
User avatar
scbriml
Posts: 13229
Joined: Wed Jul 02, 2003 10:37 pm

RE: Massive Media Benghazi Failure Continues

Sun Dec 16, 2012 10:46 pm

Quoting n318ea (Reply 17):
Just for your info I only watch 1 hour of Fox Brett Baier @ 1800 hrs. I am a Tea Party supporter and I LIKE Glenn Beck. I am also a proud Life Member of NRA.

That tells us all we need to know.   
Time flies like an arrow. Fruit flies like a banana!
 
User avatar
pu
Posts: 1315
Joined: Sat Dec 03, 2011 1:08 am

RE: Massive Media Benghazi Failure Continues

Sun Dec 16, 2012 10:50 pm

Quoting n318ea (Thread starter):
massive failure to protect our Embassy’s and its personne

Your mistake is believing that the majority of Americans share YOUR values.

Even if the "massive failure" you hope is true is becomes the accepted truth on the subject, no one cares. Or anyway, only trigger happy chest-pounding troglodytes will care.

A solid majority of Americans gave up believing America's biggest problem is angry overseas Muslims. .... about the time the George Bush Admistration had to socialise the US banking system by sending a $trillion to nationalise banks, fair minded men of goodwill realised that America's biggest problems are at home and that irrelevant African cities like Benghazi have ZERO effect on ensuring America's recovery and future.

Quoting n318ea (Thread starter):
I believe a person will watch/read the media that best suites ones ideology as well. I know I'm guilty in spite of my attempts to watch MSNBC. This does not excuse the major networks failure at any attempt of objectivity on this event.

No, you again make the mistake of believing everyone gets their news like you from a news outlet with political objectives like FOX. Only white men, especially older white men, watch Fox News exclusively.....check the demographics on news sources.....every other demographic gets their news primarily ONLINE and by reading MULTIPLE news sources.

Quoting cedarjet (Reply 5):
you don't care about the thousands of American soldiers and contractors killed needlessly

*******CORRECT*******
More than 4000 Americans have died on the streets of America at the hands of other Americans, including not a few schoolchildren, since Benghazi....but blaming foreigners is so much easier....and is the same psychology as a person who sees all their problems caused by others instead of realising that all one's problems are caused by oneself.

Benghazi is irrelevant. America is the cause and the solution to its problems - not Africa.



Pu
 
rfields5421
Posts: 5545
Joined: Thu Jul 19, 2007 12:45 am

RE: Massive Media Benghazi Failure Continues

Sun Dec 16, 2012 10:57 pm

Quoting mham001 (Reply 10):
There are some serious questions about decisions made leading up to the incident and who made them.

No there are not.

The government doesn't work the way news opinion readers on Fox try to make us believe.

People make decisions. A lot of the time those decisions never get pushed up to a level where they should be made. And many times people on those lower levels make key decisions purposely to ensure their boss cannot be held responsible.

People in government, people who are government contractors - all make decisions every day far above their paygrade. Sometimes it bites us in the a.....s......s.

Remember President Reagan's National Security Advisor - VAdm John Poindexter? and a certain LtCol North. That is how it works. They make decisions based on their understanding of the boss's policy. At times those decisions are horribly wrong.

When a person like the President makes a policy decision - it is based on a ONE page double spaced typed briefing. People up to the level of the Ambassador never get more details on most decisions they have to make.

They simply don't have the time to accurately review all the information before making a decision. Especially in a relatively fluid, fast moving situation.

The only place worse than the government about such decision making and the unavoidable CYA that goes after is the US Congress on their high and mighty 'search for the truth'.

I have an idea about how to improve the situation - FIRE ALL THE CONGRESSMEN and SENATORS in 2014.

Vote every one of the SOBs out of office.
 
User avatar
Dreadnought
Posts: 9800
Joined: Tue Feb 19, 2008 6:31 pm

RE: Massive Media Benghazi Failure Continues

Sun Dec 16, 2012 11:51 pm

Quoting rfields5421 (Reply 20):
No there are not.

The government doesn't work the way news opinion readers on Fox try to make us believe.

People make decisions. A lot of the time those decisions never get pushed up to a level where they should be made. And many times people on those lower levels make key decisions purposely to ensure their boss cannot be held responsible.

People in government, people who are government contractors - all make decisions every day far above their paygrade. Sometimes it bites us in the a.....s......s.

Remember President Reagan's National Security Advisor - VAdm John Poindexter? and a certain LtCol North. That is how it works. They make decisions based on their understanding of the boss's policy. At times those decisions are horribly wrong.

When a person like the President makes a policy decision - it is based on a ONE page double spaced typed briefing. People up to the level of the Ambassador never get more details on most decisions they have to make.

They simply don't have the time to accurately review all the information before making a decision. Especially in a relatively fluid, fast moving situation.

I have never heard such a stream of whining denial of responsibility. Making such decisions is what we pay these guys for. They have an infrastructure costing hundreds of billions of dollars per year to give them the relevant information.

And some of the decisions, let's face it, aren't that hard.

"Our consulate in Benghazi reports that they are being threatened by local Islamists, and report that their security is completely inadequate."

"Can we put Marines there in sufficient force to defend the consulate? If so, send them, if not, let's close the consulate."

OR

"Mr. President/Secretary/Undersecretary (whatever), our consulate in Benghazi is under attack, and our people there are screaming for extraction".

"What assets do wo have in the region that can make the extraction and/or provide support?"

"Blah blah blah"

"OK, get them in the air and moving towards Benghazi, I'm picking up the phone to the Libyan government and let them know they are on the way."

Not that hard.
Forget dogs and cats - Spay and neuter your liberals.
 
rfields5421
Posts: 5545
Joined: Thu Jul 19, 2007 12:45 am

RE: Massive Media Benghazi Failure Continues

Mon Dec 17, 2012 12:29 am

Quoting Dreadnought (Reply 21):
I have never heard such a stream of whining denial of responsibility.

Maybe some day you will vist the real world.

We would love to have you experience it with the rest of us.
 
User avatar
pu
Posts: 1315
Joined: Sat Dec 03, 2011 1:08 am

RE: Massive Media Benghazi Failure Continues

Mon Dec 17, 2012 1:28 am

Quoting Dreadnought (Reply 21):

AMERICAN SCHOOLCHILDREN KILLED BY AMERICAN TERRORISTS IN AMERICA THIS WEEK = 20+

AMERICAN SCHOOLCHILDREN KILLED BY MUSLIMS TERRORISTS IN BENGHAZI LIBYA SINCE TIME BEGAN = 0

.

Put your priorities in order and Fix America first.

Nothing could be more irrelevant to America than anything that happens in Benghazi, Libya.




Pu
 
mham001
Posts: 4179
Joined: Thu Feb 03, 2005 4:52 am

RE: Massive Media Benghazi Failure Continues

Mon Dec 17, 2012 1:35 am

Quoting Ken777 (Reply 13):
That brought up the abusive attacks against Rice. It wasn't because she delivered the talking points developed by Petraeus, it was because the GOP got whipped in the election. Going after Rice & pushing Kerry would give the GOP a chance to bring back Senator Brown (R-MA) from the deal.

I believe John Kerry would be the better candidate anyway. It could be the Republicans did us all a favor.

Quoting Pu (Reply 19):
Even if the "massive failure" you hope is true is becomes the accepted truth on the subject, no one cares. Or anyway, only trigger happy chest-pounding troglodytes will care.

I believe Americans care that those who may be negligent, or even just horribly wrong would lose their jobs. It is in all our best interests that this come true.

Quoting rfields5421 (Reply 20):
Remember President Reagan's National Security Advisor - VAdm John Poindexter? and a certain LtCol North. That is how it works. They make decisions based on their understanding of the boss's policy. At times those decisions are horribly wrong.

So are you saying the subsequent investigations were also partisan witchunts and that because the rest of us just don't understand how it is inside government life, their early retirements from civil service because of those decisions were unwarranted?

Quoting rfields5421 (Reply 22):
Maybe some day you will vist the real world.

We would love to have you experience it with the rest of us.

I have an idea where the two different worlds are in this conversation. The government employees/contractors world in which things can be brushed away and nobody faces responsibility as the money keeps on rolling and the rest of the world who expect repercussions for poor performance.

And don't waste your time calling me a partisan, I did not vote Republican. On the other hand, how many Dems here would be so nonchalant about this if it were one of Bush's favorites, for example.
 
L-188
Posts: 29874
Joined: Wed Jul 07, 1999 11:27 am

RE: Massive Media Benghazi Failure Continues

Mon Dec 17, 2012 1:48 am

Anybody love how Hillary faked a concussion today so she would be able to testify about Bengazi before congress?
OBAMA-WORST PRESIDENT EVER....Even SKOORB would be better.
 
mham001
Posts: 4179
Joined: Thu Feb 03, 2005 4:52 am

RE: Massive Media Benghazi Failure Continues

Mon Dec 17, 2012 2:06 am

Quoting Pu (Reply 23):
Nothing could be more irrelevant to America than anything that happens in Benghazi, Libya.

Good point. Obama and his 3 main advisers on the matter should have told the Europeans exactly that when they came looking for help to overthrow Kadaffi.
 
TheCommodore
Posts: 3458
Joined: Tue Dec 25, 2007 2:14 am

RE: Massive Media Benghazi Failure Continues

Mon Dec 17, 2012 2:08 am

Quoting L-188 (Reply 24):
Anybody love how Hillary faked a concussion today so she would be able to testify about Bengazi before congress?

I believe she has been suffering from dehydration, bought on by a stomach virus.

Had to cancel visits last week to Morocco and the Persian Gulf because of it.

http://www.smh.com.au/world/hillary-...after-fainting-20121216-2bh90.html
“At first, they'll only dislike what you say, but the more correct you start sounding the more they'll dislike you.”
 
cmf
Posts: 3120
Joined: Sun Jun 12, 2011 11:22 pm

RE: Massive Media Benghazi Failure Continues

Mon Dec 17, 2012 2:16 am

Quoting Dreadnought (Reply 21):
Not that hard.

So easy to say what should have been done when you sit with the result. Dare to guess how often there are requests for this or that? Any idea how much it would cost to fulfill all those requests? Not hard to envision all the complaints about the wasteful government if all those requests got the resources required.

Reality is that no-one but Monday morning quarterbacks are perfect.
Don’t repeat earlier generations mistakes. Learn history for a better future.
 
User avatar
Dreadnought
Posts: 9800
Joined: Tue Feb 19, 2008 6:31 pm

RE: Massive Media Benghazi Failure Continues

Mon Dec 17, 2012 2:33 am

Quoting Pu (Reply 22):
Put your priorities in order and Fix America first.

Nothing could be more irrelevant to America than anything that happens in Benghazi, Libya.

Are you saying that the US federal government, with a couple of million employees, can't do two things at the same time?

And whereas what happened friday did so without warning, there was plenty of warning in Libya.

Quoting cmf (Reply 27):
So easy to say what should have been done when you sit with the result. Dare to guess how often there are requests for this or that? Any idea how much it would cost to fulfill all those requests?

The request was extraordinarily simple.

Consulate says "we are in danger". There are only 2 possible legitimate responses: 1) Beef up security, 2) Close the consulate. Either one was justifiable, I think, depending on how important it was to keep that consulate open.

To receive that warning, repeatedly over a period of months and do nothing is dereliction of duty, at the very least. The only question that we are interested in, and why we wanted Rice, Clinton and others in sworn testimony was to find out a) Who was it who decided to do nothing, and b) who was it that saw the intelligence reports that within hours mentioned Al Qaeda as a likely culprit, crossed it out and tried to blame a youtube video. That's it - those two questions.
Forget dogs and cats - Spay and neuter your liberals.
 
cmf
Posts: 3120
Joined: Sun Jun 12, 2011 11:22 pm

RE: Massive Media Benghazi Failure Continues

Mon Dec 17, 2012 2:43 am

Quoting Dreadnought (Reply 28):
he request was extraordinarily simple.

Consulate says "we are in danger". There are only 2 possible legitimate responses: 1) Beef up security, 2) Close the consulate. Either one was justifiable, I think, depending on how important it was to keep that consulate open.

You think this is the first time additional security has been requested but not granted...

Quoting Dreadnought (Reply 28):
The only question that we are interested in, and why we wanted Rice, Clinton and others in sworn testimony was to find out a) Who was it who decided to do nothing, and b) who was it that saw the intelligence reports that within hours mentioned Al Qaeda as a likely culprit, crossed it out and tried to blame a youtube video. That's it - those two questions.

Seems like a witch hunt to me.
Don’t repeat earlier generations mistakes. Learn history for a better future.
 
BN747
Posts: 5344
Joined: Thu Mar 28, 2002 5:48 am

RE: Massive Media Benghazi Failure Continues

Mon Dec 17, 2012 2:50 am

Quoting PHX787 (Reply 10):
Well this is partially why i watch FOX- they ask the questions needed to be answered.

Ask as much as you want...but no one will ever get the answers they seek.

If you can locate anyone with a little insight, they'll tell you this was strictly a CIA op. Period.

When it comes that type of situation, there is no getting to the bottom of anything..there's no CIA operation in history that anyone can point out that was completely explained..going back to the Bay of Pigs.

Feel you're being stonewalled? You are. But also feel free worry and get caught up in something you'll never get a clear picture on... what you are seeing is - politics played by the players already know the outcome. Nothing (for you anyway).



BN747

[Edited 2012-12-16 19:02:00]
"Home of the Brave, made by the Slaves..Land of the Free, if you look like me.." T. Jefferson
 
Mudboy
Posts: 962
Joined: Wed Jan 04, 2006 6:51 am

RE: Massive Media Benghazi Failure Continues

Mon Dec 17, 2012 2:56 am

As someone that has several friends that are PMC with the DOS, and has been offered jobs in Iraq, all of this, is a political joke. This was not a US Embassy it was an annex, witch is usually a house with a fence around it and it is guarded by PMCs, not Marines, like a normal US Embassy. We all know the risks in taking these jobs and we know that if things go sideways, you are on your own and have to rely on local LE and Military. There is no story here, there is no cover-up, this is a joke to those of us, that understand the security at these annexes. It is tragic that Americans got killed, but that is why PMC get paid 3-4x more the US Soldiers and most that do these jobs are former SOF.
 
BN747
Posts: 5344
Joined: Thu Mar 28, 2002 5:48 am

RE: Massive Media Benghazi Failure Continues

Mon Dec 17, 2012 3:00 am

Quoting Mudboy (Reply 31):



Listen to the man.. that's a ton more than you'll EVER get from the media.

..and if this Benghazi nonsense is considered a 'Massive Media Failure..'

What was the Media cluster f--k over Iraq as it was falsely being drummed up for war - resulting in millions of lives being destroyed? All the documentation is there showing ALL Media sources eating up everything the Administration told them..and questioned nothing.

BN747

[Edited 2012-12-16 19:05:25]
"Home of the Brave, made by the Slaves..Land of the Free, if you look like me.." T. Jefferson
 
Ken777
Posts: 9020
Joined: Thu Mar 11, 2004 5:39 am

RE: Massive Media Benghazi Failure Continues

Mon Dec 17, 2012 3:02 am

Quoting mham001 (Reply 23):
I believe John Kerry would be the better candidate anyway.

Maybe.

There is no doubt, however, that Obama's Ms. Rice would have been a far better SecState then Bush's Ms. Rice.

Both PhD's and both exceptionally bright, but C. Rice will always have Iraq's WMDs pulling her performance down.

Quoting L-188 (Reply 24):
Anybody love how Hillary faked a concussion today so she would be able to testify about Bengazi before congress?

Hillary has never had a problem testifying before Congress.

My bet is that there are a lot of Conservatives who are relieved as Hillary could make very fear the talking points delivered by General Petraeus, or one of his assistants at the CIA. There is, I would guess, very little desire in the GOP for any more revelations concerning Petraeus - both in the "talking points" that seem so important OR any involvement of the CIA in protecting (or failing to protect) US personnel in Benghaazi. That is the can of worms that has really been kept out of the public view and the CIA probably has no desire for any sensitive areas to be exposed in a political FaceTIme grab.
 
User avatar
pu
Posts: 1315
Joined: Sat Dec 03, 2011 1:08 am

RE: Massive Media Benghazi Failure Continues

Mon Dec 17, 2012 3:16 am

Quoting Dreadnought (Reply 28):
Are you saying that the US federal government, with a couple of million employees, can't do two things at the same time?

If I wanted to say that, I would say that. In households where English is spoken, what I said was clear: put your priorities in order. For example:


    + The government fiscal situation
    + Domestic security: 18 000 Americans a year killed by American terrorists
    + The polarisation of wages
    + Putting social security on sound footing
    + Unemployment
    + the refusal of the Chinese to allow the Yuan to float freely
    + healthcare "issues"
    + Matching education delivery with job demand
    + Cancer, traffic accidents or any problem that kills 10000000x as many as Benghazi "terrrorists"
    + tax reform



....all of which are complicated enough for anyone to worry about or understand. Thankfully America has chosen leadership who can get elected without pandering to ego-damaged insecure white men with chips on their shoulder who are ready to go to war any time America is insulted or if someone pees on an American flag.




Pu
 
ltbewr
Posts: 12361
Joined: Thu Jan 29, 2004 1:24 pm

RE: Massive Media Benghazi Failure Continues

Mon Dec 17, 2012 3:26 am

First of all, Libya is in a transition of government, so was not really capable to do their duty to protect our consulate in Benghazi. Problem is that the USA is limited in how much in military force they can have there or nearby for political and diplomatic reasons.

Second, there is the reality that intelligence is very difficult in such countries, with little trust for the USA government, with plenty of inaccurate or even intentional misinformation passed along to the CIA and US State Dept..

Third the alleged anti-Islamic movie. produced by an Egyptian of the Coptic Christian faith in the USA, who's followers are facing prosecution in Egypt. This movie was first getting attention in another changing country, Egypt where Conservative Muslims are trying to take control of government and their lives after years of repression by dictators. Knowledge of this movie was being widely circulated in the Islamic world and would be a great cover of a terror attack by having large crowds of protesters.

Fourth, I suspect there have been a mole or spy for anti-American organizations within the US Embassy or the consulate that let them know of security set ups that seemed to be targeted. That is a very serious State Dept. and CIA failure that needs to be examined but also has to be keep secret. Of course many in the CIA and State Dept. are trying to cover their butts as to their failures and may have put out the movie story for part of that cover.

Perhaps the Obama Administration should have simply early on called this a terrorist attack that it obviously was, not put out the 'movie' story, not putting out UN Ambassador Rice and instead said the attack was under investigation and more information as to how it happened would be discussed in a few days.

Of course the media and to some extent the public, demands someone to blame in our government for this terrible attack, they keep the story going and gives someting to sell their media products to with any hint of scandal or cover up.
 
FlyDeltaJets
Posts: 1631
Joined: Thu Feb 02, 2006 4:24 pm

RE: Massive Media Benghazi Failure Continues

Mon Dec 17, 2012 4:13 am

I would rather the media say nothing about Benghazi than to continue to report the same assumpsions and proven false talking points they were doing up until this point.

Quoting DeltaMD90 (Reply 1):
Keep it in the back of your mind, wait for the investigation, then draw conclusions from the facts


Well said

Quoting mham001 (Reply 23):
I believe John Kerry would be the better candidate anyway. It could be the Republicans did us all a favor.


Possibly but we were denied the chance of fully hearing her qualifications and were simply force fed the narrative that she was a bad pick because she did her job and delivered the narrative she was briefed on.
The only valid opinions are those based in facts
 
rfields5421
Posts: 5545
Joined: Thu Jul 19, 2007 12:45 am

RE: Massive Media Benghazi Failure Continues

Mon Dec 17, 2012 4:33 am

Quoting mham001 (Reply 23):
So are you saying the subsequent investigations were also partisan witchunts and that because the rest of us just don't understand how it is inside government life, their early retirements from civil service because of those decisions were unwarranted?

I was not talking about the investigation. I was citing two very specific people who provided very detailed descriptions of how the real world works in the upper reaches of government.

Adm Poindexter was very clear that a lot of details that people wanted to blame on the President were purposely kept from his knowledge, were purposely kept from his senior staff. The President was not a 'detail' man, and frankly did not have enough background to make informed decisions if given the details.

The key role of the President is to hire people to make those decisions, and make the decisions on which details to bring to him/her. Every President chooses people who make mistakes. Either because they are not the right people for the job, or they simply guess wrong.

LtCol North was a separate example. I've seen his type from my earliest days in the US Navy, and I've seen his type in the civilian world.

In the Navy we called people like that as "wearing their bosses stripes".

A person who believes their judgement is always 'what the boss wants' even if it is directly against written policy. If you've ever worked in the corporate world you've seen Vice Presidents or even worse - Executive Admins - who operate the same way.

Quoting mham001 (Reply 23):
The government employees/contractors world in which things can be brushed away and nobody faces responsibility as the money keeps on rolling and the rest of the world who expect repercussions for poor performance.

Poor performance has consequences in the government world, up to and including, getting your friends or yourself killed in some places.

Frankly, my 20 years experience in the US Navy and 20 years working in Fortune 100 corporate world tell me that people in the corporate world at the top levels are less likely to be held accountable for poor performance.

I've seen a lot of people dismissed for poor performance in the Navy and in the associated civilian positions. There are consequences. Unfortunately just like any organization, people who game the system well can find a place to 'hide' in a job where getting rid of them is practically impossible.

One of the nice things about our government is that the majority of the top positions are political, and the people get replaced every few years. This helps keep them somewhat fresh and from getting complacent. But it also allows some of the permanent Senior Executive Service to build an empire that the new political undersecretary cannot break.

Quoting ltbewr (Reply 35):
Fourth, I suspect there have been a mole or spy for anti-American organizations within the US Embassy or the consulate that let them know of security set ups that seemed to be targeted. That is a very serious State Dept. and CIA failure that needs to be examined but also has to be keep secret.


Almost all overseas US State Department embassies, consulates and other facilities employ local citizens for many jobs. There is no point in hiring a janitor in the US, shipping him and his family to the other side of the world. The cost is too high and the turnover too high. So locals are hired. You also see a lot of them on US miltary bases overseas.

Unfortunately some people who not 'loyal' to the United States as their employer. Details such as the security setup, how checks are conducted, where safe rooms are located, etc - all those are practically impossible to keep from local national employees.

There were obviously people who provided details about the security setup.

The separate short attacks on the consulate where the ambassador was killed and the separate security contractor compound where the former seals were killed hours later show some coordination. The way the security team flown in to help was delayed at the airport is a part of that coordination.

They also show that the response to the initial situation where the local security team tried to rescue the ambassador, and the arrival of the backup security team were known to hostile locals. That setup the timing of the mortar attack which killed the former seals.

It was very disappointing to learn that the new area commander for Africa did not have a fast reaction team under his direct control that could be ordered to Benghazi. The inc ountry contractor team was the only security team able to respond in a timely manner after the initial consulate attack.
 
User avatar
DeltaMD90
Posts: 8245
Joined: Tue Apr 15, 2008 11:25 pm

RE: Massive Media Benghazi Failure Continues

Mon Dec 17, 2012 5:32 am



Quoting PHX787 (Reply 14):
Quoting DeltaMD90 (Reply 12):
Which is why they are totally reporting on it now??
CT School Shooting (by stlgph Dec 14 2012 in Non Aviation)

Ok so if Fox is doing what the other networks are doing, why are the other networks getting blasted? Again, don't listen to them too much but when the Benghazi stuff was going on I heard commentary on them. They weren't rabid at the mouth trying to pin blame on anyone, so if that makes them bias, well, I don't know what to say (the opposite seems true actually)

Quoting L-188 (Reply 24):
Anybody love how Hillary faked a concussion today so she would be able to testify about Bengazi before congress?

Statements like these do little to persuade people and only make the movement look as crazy as truthers

Quoting cmf (Reply 29):
You think this is the first time additional security has been requested but not granted...

              
Anyone who has worked in the government/military knows that a ton of stuff gets "requested"

Now if the same mistakes are being repeated over and over again, that is definitely a cause for concern. We need to wait for the facts to come out, but as of now, I don't see any "negligence," only the fact that we don't have crystal balls (or unlimited funding and are able to grant every "request" that pops up)

[Edited 2012-12-16 21:41:57]
Ironically I have never flown a Delta MD-90 :)
 
seb146
Posts: 13756
Joined: Wed Dec 01, 1999 7:19 am

RE: Massive Media Benghazi Failure Continues

Mon Dec 17, 2012 5:57 am

Quoting mham001 (Reply 23):
I believe John Kerry would be the better candidate anyway.

I just wonder what would happen if Obama nominated Jon Huntsman? I think he would be good. But, the right-wing fringe would probably block his nomination because he is too "moderate" for them.
Life in the wall is a drag.
 
User avatar
Aaron747
Posts: 8524
Joined: Thu Aug 07, 2003 2:07 am

RE: Massive Media Benghazi Failure Continues

Mon Dec 17, 2012 6:23 am

Quoting n318ea (Thread starter):
If Ambassador Rice had to go through hearings on Capital Hill the "most transparent and open
administration" would have had to be exactly that for once.

She didn't go through the hearings because she and her husband are too invested in Canadian oil pipelines and pipeline suppliers to get through the process without serious questions being asked about their finances. That's why.

Quoting Dreadnought (Reply 20):
I have never heard such a stream of whining denial of responsibility. Making such decisions is what we pay these guys for. They have an infrastructure costing hundreds of billions of dollars per year to give them the relevant information.

If you haven't worked a day in military intelligence or the company field, as it were, I suggest you leave it at that. You have no idea what kind of maelstrom of information these people deal with day in, day out. There are a lot of improvements that could be made in terms of reporting lines, crossover of fields of analysis and monitoring, etc, but we are still talking about the federal government here. Everyone involved knows the risks though - see Mudboy's post above. These histrionic reactions are coming from some kind of fantasyland. That should be the topic of Tom Clancy's next book.
If you need someone to blame / throw a rock in the air / you'll hit someone guilty
 
LMP737
Posts: 4800
Joined: Wed May 08, 2002 4:06 pm

RE: Massive Media Benghazi Failure Continues

Mon Dec 17, 2012 7:41 am

Quoting PHX787 (Reply 10):
Well this is partially why i watch FOX- they ask the questions needed to be answered.

On Fox News website do a search of ACORN and Halliburton and see what you get.
Never take financial advice from co-workers.
 
BN747
Posts: 5344
Joined: Thu Mar 28, 2002 5:48 am

RE: Massive Media Benghazi Failure Continues

Mon Dec 17, 2012 10:26 am

Quoting Aaron747 (Reply 40):
Quoting n318ea (Thread starter):
If Ambassador Rice had to go through hearings on Capital Hill the "most transparent and open
administration" would have had to be exactly that for once.

She didn't go through the hearings because she and her husband are too invested in Canadian oil pipelines and pipeline suppliers to get through the process without serious questions being asked about their finances. That's why.

What? And there's not a SINGLE Republican senator or congressman NOT neck deep in those and other oil pipeline investments. Good luck finding one.

BN747
"Home of the Brave, made by the Slaves..Land of the Free, if you look like me.." T. Jefferson
 
User avatar
Aaron747
Posts: 8524
Joined: Thu Aug 07, 2003 2:07 am

RE: Massive Media Benghazi Failure Continues

Mon Dec 17, 2012 11:35 am

Quoting BN747 (Reply 42):
What? And there's not a SINGLE Republican senator or congressman NOT neck deep in those and other oil pipeline investments. Good luck finding one.

You bet, but once that hit HuffPo and Politico the talk of her as a serious candidate for Sec State started to dwindle. Big difference between that post and Congress.
If you need someone to blame / throw a rock in the air / you'll hit someone guilty
 
BN747
Posts: 5344
Joined: Thu Mar 28, 2002 5:48 am

RE: Massive Media Benghazi Failure Continues

Mon Dec 17, 2012 12:08 pm

Quoting Aaron747 (Reply 43):
Quoting BN747 (Reply 42):
What? And there's not a SINGLE Republican senator or congressman NOT neck deep in those and other oil pipeline investments. Good luck finding one.

You bet, but once that hit HuffPo and Politico the talk of her as a serious candidate for Sec State started to dwindle. Big difference between that post and Congress.

I must be missing something...were I a big hitter oil-invested GOP-er, I'd be very sympathetic to a SOS Rice with similar investments (oil-related) as it would serve both our interest abroad versus a most likely oil industry antagonist like Kerry...?!

BN747
"Home of the Brave, made by the Slaves..Land of the Free, if you look like me.." T. Jefferson
 
User avatar
Aaron747
Posts: 8524
Joined: Thu Aug 07, 2003 2:07 am

RE: Massive Media Benghazi Failure Continues

Mon Dec 17, 2012 1:15 pm

Quoting BN747 (Reply 44):
I must be missing something...were I a big hitter oil-invested GOP-er, I'd be very sympathetic to a SOS Rice with similar investments (oil-related) as it would serve both our interest abroad versus a most likely oil industry antagonist like Kerry...?!

Criticisms of her that I saw were more oriented around the enviro crowd, et al.
If you need someone to blame / throw a rock in the air / you'll hit someone guilty
 
User avatar
DeltaMD90
Posts: 8245
Joined: Tue Apr 15, 2008 11:25 pm

RE: Massive Media Benghazi Failure Continues

Mon Dec 17, 2012 4:37 pm

Quoting seb146 (Reply 39):
I just wonder what would happen if Obama nominated Jon Huntsman? I think he would be good. But, the right-wing fringe would probably block his nomination because he is too "moderate" for them.

Why would they deny a moderate Republican when the other choices are flat out liberals? I mean I know they've been pretty partisan of late and do some strange things, but I think you're being far too cynical here

I think Huntsman would be a great choice btw (and I think it would show some goodwill by putting a Republican in, even if a bunch of people would inevitably cry "RINO," there is more to the right (and moderates) than just these loudmouths)
Ironically I have never flown a Delta MD-90 :)
 
Newark727
Posts: 1425
Joined: Tue Dec 29, 2009 6:42 pm

RE: Massive Media Benghazi Failure Continues

Mon Dec 17, 2012 5:09 pm

Quoting DeltaMD90 (Reply 46):
Why would they deny a moderate Republican when the other choices are flat out liberals?

I think it's a bit more complex than that. See Democratic hostility towards Joe Lieberman, although he was never being nominated for a cabinet post. Even if he's closer than other nominees ideologically, they might not like him for a perceived defection to a widely disliked cause. That said, I think Huntsman might actually be a mutually beneficial choice if it was actually done, it would give the GOP a player with serious international credentials in their policy circles when he finished his term (although the fact that he would be doing so with someone else as his boss would be a major hindrance) and it would give the Democrats a widely publicized and fairly inarguable instance of reaching across the aisle.
 
n318ea
Topic Author
Posts: 117
Joined: Thu Aug 17, 2006 7:56 pm

RE: Massive Media Benghazi Failure Continues

Mon Dec 17, 2012 9:30 pm

Quoting Pu (Reply 18):
No, you again make the mistake of believing everyone gets their news like you from a news outlet with political objectives like FOX. Only white men, especially older white men, watch Fox News exclusively.....check the demographics on news sources.....every other demographic gets their news primarily ONLINE and by reading MULTIPLE news sources.

I DON'T get my news from FOX. I do read multiple blogs and multiple sources including NBC online.
Oh, and I left out I like Rush Limbaugh too.  
Red Red Red Red Red Neck!
 
User avatar
casinterest
Posts: 5356
Joined: Sat Feb 12, 2005 5:30 am

RE: Massive Media Benghazi Failure Continues

Mon Dec 17, 2012 9:41 pm

The final report is now in the State Department's hands.
We will see what new story the Fake news company and other right wing spin on this on Wednesday.

http://www.boston.com/news/nation/wa.../Uf8lD1n9DaTQUEJaL5Q3GJ/story.html
Older than I just was ,and younger than I will soo be.

Who is online

Users browsing this forum: Bing [Bot], tommy1808 and 49 guests