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Tugger
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NRA "Big Announcement" Statement... Really?

Fri Dec 21, 2012 6:38 pm

So the NRA made its big statement today:

Quote:
In an impassioned speech, marking the NRA's first in-depth public comments since the Newtown tragedy, LaPierre pointed the finger not at gun proliferation but violent video games, the media and the absence of armed guards at schools.

He argued that if banks and members of Congress can have protection, schools across America should be afforded the same security.

"It's now time for us to assume responsibly for our schools," he said. "The only way to stop a monster from killing our kids is to be permanently involved and invested in a plan of absolute protection."

He added: "The only thing that stops a bad guy with a gun is a good guy with a gun."

Warning that the next mass killer could be "waiting in the wings," LaPierre urged immediate action to protect school children.

He said efforts over the years to pass laws for "gun-free school zones" have only told "every insane killer in America that schools are the safest place to inflict maximum mayhem with minimum risk."

He said that when it comes to America's children, "we as a society leave them, every day, utterly defenseless. ... That must change now."

LaPierre called for a national school security plan, including an appropriation from Congress for armed guards in every school. He tapped former Rep. Asa Hutchison, R-Ark., to lead the effort to develop the security plans, which would cover everything from building design to access control. There are nearly 100,000 public schools in America.

"Will you at least admit it's possible that ... 26 innocent lives might have been spared that day," he said, if the shooter had encountered "qualified armed security."
http://www.foxnews.com/politics/2012...l-dismisses-calls-for-gun-control/
Also here: http://www.cnn.com/2012/12/21/us/con...hool-shooting/index.html?hpt=hp_t2

To be honest I don't get it, it just doesn't seem as "savvy" as the NRA has been known to be. I mean they had an entire week to come with this and they blame video games and "the media" and want armed guards in every school.

I would question why stop at schools, but I guess that plays into what they are perhaps actually seeking which is to essentially have every person in the USA be armed.

Tugg
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DeltaMD90
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RE: NRA "Big Announcement" Statement... Really?

Fri Dec 21, 2012 6:44 pm

Yeah, disappointed but not surprised. This is only a treat for the symptom and not the cause. I figured they'd come up with something at least halfway decent as an alternative to some of the other more strict measures.

I honestly think if they came up with something reasonable, the public might choose that over the AWB. But as this option and the AWB as the only two offers, I can see the AWB passing...
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RussianJet
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RE: NRA "Big Announcement" Statement... Really?

Fri Dec 21, 2012 6:44 pm

Did I read correctly that just at the point they started going on about better security, a protester burst in? Good job chaps, really good job.
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EMBQA
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RE: NRA "Big Announcement" Statement... Really?

Fri Dec 21, 2012 6:47 pm

Quoting tugger (Thread starter):
I would question why stop at schools, but I guess that plays into what they are perhaps actually seeking which is to essentially have every person in the USA be armed.

Maybe we just need the perception of that since over the last 20+ years nearly 100% of these mass shooting have happened in "Gun Free Zones" The only people reading and obeying those signs are the law-abiding citizen. All the criminal is thinking is that no one there will stop me.

[Edited 2012-12-21 10:50:50]
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L-188
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RE: NRA "Big Announcement" Statement... Really?

Fri Dec 21, 2012 6:52 pm

Yes the fix is to fix the mental health system in this country, not banning guns.

but still the reaction by gun grabbers to this is why I have finally joined the NRA. Anybody else thinks Obummers "commission" is just a fraudulant attempt to reach a conc'uskonnhe has already come too?
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ogre727
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RE: NRA "Big Announcement" Statement... Really?

Fri Dec 21, 2012 6:58 pm

Quoting L-188 (Reply 4):
Yes the fix is to fix the mental health system in this country, not banning guns.

Or banning them until the mental health system is fixed perhaps is a happy medium???
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luv2fly
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RE: NRA "Big Announcement" Statement... Really?

Fri Dec 21, 2012 7:01 pm

I m always amazed with the spin the NRA can put on gun violence and deflect from the obvious. If guns are the problem, more guns can not be the solution. No offer to work towards a solution and or fix, deflect, deflect, deflect.
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Tugger
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RE: NRA "Big Announcement" Statement... Really?

Fri Dec 21, 2012 7:04 pm

Quoting L-188 (Reply 4):
Yes the fix is to fix the mental health system in this country, not banning guns.

Would a tax (similar to other focused taxes for cigarettes and alcohol) that goes toward supporting mental health services and perhaps the medical costs of guns be supportable? I am thinking many would scream bloody murder about "more taxes" but I think it could be a good idea that could actually do something.

Quoting L-188 (Reply 4):
but still the reaction by gun grabbers to this is why I have finally joined the NRA. Anybody else thinks Obummers "commission" is just a fraudulant attempt to reach a conc'uskonnhe has already come too?

No I don't. And that comes from the fact the Obama appointed Simpson-Bowles commission didn't come to a conclusion that anybody in politics liked which means it was actually a good and reasoned conclusion.

(And also, name calling BS is silly and childish and not conducive to good conversation nor does it present the argument the person doing the name calling in a favorable light.)

Tugg

[Edited 2012-12-21 11:10:48]
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hOMSaR
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RE: NRA "Big Announcement" Statement... Really?

Fri Dec 21, 2012 7:07 pm

Ignoring the many obvious flaws with the idea of having more guns in a school with kindergarteners and whatnot, who's going to pay for this?

In general, those whose politics make them most favorable to the NRA are also those who are most reluctant (to be kindly) to put any kind of money into our education system.
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mt99
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RE: NRA "Big Announcement" Statement... Really?

Fri Dec 21, 2012 7:22 pm

Quoting L-188 (Reply 4):
Yes the fix is to fix the mental health system in this country,

That takes Tax dollars.

I think the solution is giving all 5 years guns. If those kids would have been able to defend themselves..
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AirframeAS
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RE: NRA "Big Announcement" Statement... Really?

Fri Dec 21, 2012 7:31 pm

Quoting HoMsaR (Reply 8):
Ignoring the many obvious flaws with the idea of having more guns in a school with kindergarteners and whatnot, who's going to pay for this?

I'm a huge advocate of arming teachers in schools rather hiring one guard in each and every school in this country. It's cheaper and more teachers would be armed vs. only one guard. It's quite easy for a gunman to take out the hired guard then go havoc on the rest if the school.

In my opinion, having armed teachers, like what one Texas school district is doing, is much, much better.

http://www.nydailynews.com/news/nati...uns-texas-school-article-1.1224257
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mt99
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RE: NRA "Big Announcement" Statement... Really?

Fri Dec 21, 2012 7:33 pm

Quoting AirframeAS (Reply 10):
In my opinion, having armed teachers, like what one Texas school district is doing, is much, much better.

What if a teacher doesn't want to be armed?
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wolbo
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RE: NRA "Big Announcement" Statement... Really?

Fri Dec 21, 2012 7:34 pm

That was a completely surreal statement. At this stage you have to wonder who are more detached from reality, the Westboro Baptist Church or the NRA?
 
luv2fly
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RE: NRA "Big Announcement" Statement... Really?

Fri Dec 21, 2012 7:41 pm

Quoting mt99 (Reply 11):
What if a teacher doesn't want to be armed?
Quoting AirframeAS (Reply 10):
In my opinion, having armed teachers, like what one Texas school district is doing, is much, much better.



The shooters Mother was a teacher, tell me again how that worked out for us having her be a gun owner!
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BN747
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RE: NRA "Big Announcement" Statement... Really?

Fri Dec 21, 2012 7:43 pm

Okay, so armed men in every school: check!

How about the movie theatre shooting? Okay, armed men in every theatre: check!

How about the supermarket shooting? Okay, armed men in every supermarket: check! How 'bout the Fort Hood shooting? ...okay, armed men on every military base: check... hey, wait a minute!

Seriously, if this is the way the NRA wants it...

The NRA pays for it. Cops at every school, your idea ... you pay.

Or to pay for cops at every school...levy a taxi on every gun owner, saayyy... an Annual Gun Fee of $1200 per registered gun owner per weapon!

BN747
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Airontario
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RE: NRA "Big Announcement" Statement... Really?

Fri Dec 21, 2012 7:45 pm

So by extension would the world be a safer place if every country had Nuclear missiles as well?
 
ROSWELL41
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RE: NRA "Big Announcement" Statement... Really?

Fri Dec 21, 2012 7:47 pm

I think the NRA's idea is an interesting one. Why don't we harden schools much like we harden banks and airports? Aren't our children important and valuable enough? Honestly, with the fiscal cliff and the Christmas/New Years holidays, I think the uproar from the shooting will be short lived much like Aurora. Most of the news coverage is decreasing even on networks like MSNBC. If this had happened at a different time of year, maybe the anti-gun crowd would have a greater chance of success. In the meantime, the NRA is collecting tons of donations and firearms are flying off the the shelves. Those of us who value our 2nd Amendment rights are writing our government officials and we are politicially active and donate money to our causes. I support the NRA proposal. It makes far more sense than the so-called AWB.
 
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RE: NRA "Big Announcement" Statement... Really?

Fri Dec 21, 2012 7:52 pm

A simple tax of 2 cents per bullet would fund mental health across this country. Or it would fund two National Guard soldiers at every elementary and middle school.

I'd pay the tax if it meant a safer society.
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L-188
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RE: NRA "Big Announcement" Statement... Really?

Fri Dec 21, 2012 8:04 pm

BN747

You realize your tax idea would cost ne iver fifty grand a year?

Forget it!

Oh and i and everybody who spent time in the service can tell you have no idea about weapons security at a military base.nobody except the civilian cops and MO's on duty where packing.....save for the shooter....funny how all these incidents happen in gun free zones eh?
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Braybuddy
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RE: NRA "Big Announcement" Statement... Really?

Fri Dec 21, 2012 8:04 pm

Quoting tugger (Thread starter):
He added: "The only thing that stops a bad guy with a gun is a good guy with a gun."

So where were all the "good guys with guns" when all these multiple murders have occurred? Sitting at home bragging about their arsenal?

I don't understand why people like to lay the blame on mental health. An angry, testosterone-fuelled teenage male doesn't need to be insane to let fly at anyone, not least when he has a loaded weapon in his hand.
 
L-188
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RE: NRA "Big Announcement" Statement... Really?

Fri Dec 21, 2012 8:08 pm

Actually Braybuddy their weapons where left at home because that school was a gun free zone and they where respecting the law.

Funny how only the shooters/criminals seem to ignore those laws


Edit....he wasnt a teenage he was twenty and from what i have read seems to have lead a very smothered life being protected by his mother. This lack of socialization seems to have caused him not to have the ability toi deal with society

But i am not a shrink

[Edited 2012-12-21 12:11:44]
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mt99
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RE: NRA "Big Announcement" Statement... Really?

Fri Dec 21, 2012 8:09 pm

Quoting L-188 (Reply 20):
Actually Braybuddy their weapons where left at home because that school was a gun free zone and they where respecting the law.

Is that a fact? can you prove it?

Name 1 person who was at the school that has said: "if i only had my gun..."
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BN747
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RE: NRA "Big Announcement" Statement... Really?

Fri Dec 21, 2012 8:10 pm

Quoting roswell41 (Reply 16):
I think the NRA's idea is an interesting one. Why don't we harden schools much like we harden banks and airports? Aren't our children important and valuable enough?
Quoting KBJCpilot (Reply 17):

I'd pay the tax if it meant a safer society.

We non-gun owners should NOT have to pay for gun owners adamant over-the-top attitudes over the 2nd amendment...they need to figure out away to police themselves (as Mr. NRA is suggesting -without shouldering cost so far) or let us do it for them.

BN747
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Ken777
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RE: NRA "Big Announcement" Statement... Really?

Fri Dec 21, 2012 8:12 pm

Quoting EMBQA (Reply 3):

Yes the fix is to fix the mental health system in this country, not banning guns.

I believe that the ability (authority) to do so in place but it's clear that the GOP isn't going to allow funding or actual operations at a national level. That's not on the Tea Party Approved List of Government Spending.

Quoting luv2fly (Reply 6):
I m always amazed with the spin the NRA can put on gun violence and deflect from the obvious.

I'm not. It's about money, which puts the Second Amendment way down the list of importance for the NRA.
 
L-188
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RE: NRA "Big Announcement" Statement... Really?

Fri Dec 21, 2012 8:14 pm

You can look up the law that says schools are gun free zones yourself MT99

And yes it is a law
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mt99
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RE: NRA "Big Announcement" Statement... Really?

Fri Dec 21, 2012 8:22 pm

Quoting L-188 (Reply 24):
You can look up the law that says schools are gun free zones yourself MT99

And yes it is a law

I did not ask for that. I asked you to prove that there was at least 1 person at Sandy Hook, who would have otherwise had gun in his/her possession if it wasn't for the fact that the school was a gun free zone and tha he/she would have been able to stop this guy.

Quoting L-188 (Reply 20):
A their weapons where left at home because that school was a gun free zone and they where respecting the law.
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ROSWELL41
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RE: NRA "Big Announcement" Statement... Really?

Fri Dec 21, 2012 8:37 pm

Gun-free zones aren't really gun-free unless you have access control and administrative searches of all persons and property entering the building. Examples would be airports, court houses and government buildings. Calling someplace a gun-free zone doesn't make it so. I think armed security at schools is a good idea, although, arming and training willing volunteer teachers should also be considered. Let localities decide which is best for their district based on their budgets and parent/teacher organizations. The idea of leaving hundreds of children with a few dozen unarmed (and mostly female) adults seems reckless in hindsight.
 
KBJCpilot
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RE: NRA "Big Announcement" Statement... Really?

Fri Dec 21, 2012 8:40 pm

Quoting BN747 (Reply 22):
We non-gun owners should NOT have to pay for gun owners adamant over-the-top attitudes over the 2nd amendment...they need to figure out away to police themselves (as Mr. NRA is suggesting -without shouldering cost so far) or let us do it for them.

OK Mr. Overreaction, if you had read my entire post I said

Quoting KBJCpilot (Reply 17):
A simple tax of 2 cents per bullet would fund mental health across this country. Or it would fund two National Guard soldiers at every elementary and middle school.

I'd pay the tax if it meant a safer society.

We would pay for your pacifist society with a bullet tax.
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mt99
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RE: NRA "Big Announcement" Statement... Really?

Fri Dec 21, 2012 8:44 pm

Quoting KBJCpilot (Reply 27):

We would pay for your pacifist society with a bullet tax.

Awsome.. convince this guy:

Quoting L-188 (Reply 18):

You realize your tax idea would cost ne iver fifty grand a year?
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brilondon
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RE: NRA "Big Announcement" Statement... Really?

Fri Dec 21, 2012 8:49 pm

Quoting tugger (Thread starter):
He said that when it comes to America's children, "we as a society leave them, every day, utterly defenseless. ... That must change now."

So why don't we teach the 5 and 6 year old children how to properly handle a gun, then maybe one the child who knew karate would have been able to shoot the killer.

Quoting tugger (Thread starter):
He added: "The only thing that stops a bad guy with a gun is a good guy with a gun.

This is the stupidest thing I have heard in a while.

Quoting tugger (Reply 7):
Would a tax (similar to other focused taxes for cigarettes and alcohol) that goes toward supporting mental health services and perhaps the medical costs of guns be supportable? I am thinking many would scream bloody murder about "more taxes" but I think it could be a good idea that could actually do something.

That is the reason that the founding fathers put in the right to bare arms in the constitution because of the King of England wanting to tax and control the colonies.

Quoting AirframeAS (Reply 10):
I'm a huge advocate of arming teachers in schools rather hiring one guard in each and every school in this country. It's cheaper and more teachers would be armed vs. only one guard. It's quite easy for a gunman to take out the hired guard then go havoc on the rest if the school.

Oh yeah lets arm the teachers and while were at it don't forget to arm the administrators and the janitor who of course will be able to shoot the gunmen who are storming the schools. Why in the world would you think that is a great idea?

Quoting Braybuddy (Reply 19):
I don't understand why people like to lay the blame on mental health.

Because a sane man would not have gone into the school and shot 5 and 6 year old children.

Quoting mt99 (Reply 21):
Name 1 person who was at the school that has said: "if i only had my gun..."

I agree. If there were an armed person at the school it would have done no good. By the time it was apparent that there was a gunman in the school, he would already dead.
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pu
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RE: NRA "Big Announcement" Statement... Really?

Fri Dec 21, 2012 8:52 pm

Quoting AirframeAS (Reply 10):
I'm a huge advocate of arming teachers in schools

Do you have any idea how far in the opposite direction you are going with ideas like this compared to the rest of the first world - which has almost eliminated gun violence as a threat? Why don't you consider whats worked elsewhere instead of advocating the untenable idea that a suicidal crazy man or a terrorist is going to be stopped in a shootout with a teacher?

Video games, violent movies, crazy people and unarmed teachers exist in Australia, Japan and Europe....yet somehow an American-style monthly shooting rampage almost never occurs.



Pu
 
ROSWELL41
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RE: NRA "Big Announcement" Statement... Really?

Fri Dec 21, 2012 8:57 pm

People made similar criticisms about arming pilots. Well, we as a country, decided it was worth the risk and it has been a success for going on ten years. What makes volunteer teachers so different than volunteer pilots? Both are educated and respected professionals. Both have an interest in their personal safety at work, nevermind the safety of those in their care. I honestly don't understand the resistance to arming and training volunteer teachers. Is it solely politics? Is it because many teachers and their union espouse a left wing political ideology that is anti-gun?
 
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Polot
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RE: NRA "Big Announcement" Statement... Really?

Fri Dec 21, 2012 9:10 pm

Quoting roswell41 (Reply 31):
People made similar criticisms about arming pilots. Well, we as a country, decided it was worth the risk and it has been a success for going on ten years. What makes volunteer teachers so different than volunteer pilots? Both are educated and respected professionals. Both have an interest in their personal safety at work, nevermind the safety of those in their care. I honestly don't understand the resistance to arming and training volunteer teachers. Is it solely politics? Is it because many teachers and their union espouse a left wing political ideology that is anti-gun?

Money is a big issue though. There were approximately 618,660 registered pilots in the US in 2011, with a vast majority of those being student and private pilots. On the other hand there are approximately 7.2 million teachers in the US. The costs for pilots can be recovered by increasing fees on airline tickets. The only way to raise money for this initiative is to just raise taxes, or increase taxes on guns/ammo. Neither option is that appealing to most conservatives.

[Edited 2012-12-21 13:10:59]
 
fr8mech
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RE: NRA "Big Announcement" Statement... Really?

Fri Dec 21, 2012 9:13 pm

Quoting ogre727 (Reply 5):
If guns are the problem, more guns can not be the solution

You make the assumption that guns are the problem.

Quoting ogre727 (Reply 5):
Or banning them until the mental health system is fixed perhaps is a happy medium???

And, in what world do you live in where out beloved leaders will willingly return power to the people after they have wrested it away?

Quoting tugger (Reply 7):
Would a tax (similar to other focused taxes for cigarettes and alcohol) that goes toward supporting mental health services and perhaps the medical costs of guns be supportable?

I would not be opposed to this, so long as the tax is not unreasonable and the money does not go into some "general fund" to be used at the whim of the politicians. And, it would be a state and local tax, not a federal tax.

Quoting HoMsaR (Reply 8):
Ignoring the many obvious flaws with the idea of having more guns in a school with kindergarteners and whatnot,

Please, help me with the "many obvious flaws" are with having law-abiding citizens carry firearms around kids. Note: carry, not leave unattended.

Quoting mt99 (Reply 11):
What if a teacher doesn't want to be armed?

Then the teacher is not armed.

Quoting BN747 (Reply 14):
How about the movie theatre shooting? Okay, armed men in every theatre: check!

Since the Aurora shooting, I do carry a firearm whenever I go to a movie. After careful reading of the law...and asking a couple of cop buddies, in this state, a "no firearms sign" does not have the force of law (unless it is posted on a property specifically listed in the various statutes) and if I'm "found out, it's a trespassing charge, but only if I don't leave. So, now I carry in many more places.

Quoting BN747 (Reply 14):
Okay, so armed men in every school: check!

Unfortunately, schools are specifically spelled out in the statutes. So, all our primary and secondary schools are gun-free and violations are a felony. I will not carry on school property, though, the law does allow a firearm in my car, so long as it can legally be there.

Quoting roswell41 (Reply 26):
Gun-free zones aren't really gun-free unless you have access control and administrative searches of all persons and property entering the building.


I wonder why people don't understand this? Of course, a gun-free zone is really only designed to add an additional criminal charge when someone is caught inside one with a firearm.

Saw this a few days ago:

https://petitions.whitehouse.gov/petition/create-federal-educator-and-student-defense-act-program/v56sCpfT

Good idea? Bad idea?

[Edited 2012-12-21 13:13:47]

Edit to move stuff around that inexplicably got moved around.


[Edited 2012-12-21 13:35:10]
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Tugger
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RE: NRA "Big Announcement" Statement... Really?

Fri Dec 21, 2012 9:17 pm

Quoting roswell41 (Reply 31):
People made similar criticisms about arming pilots.

Pilots are in a closed, limited access space. The gun is kept secure in the cockpit. The passengers are all screened. It is an entirely different situation. Where exactly do you propose the teachers keep their guns? On their person, in their holster? In their gun safe? Do you have one in every classroom? Are you willing to pay the additional costs for training (it's gotta be at least annual) and the increased insurance cost?

Just curious.

Tugg
I don’t know that I am unafraid to be myself, but it is hard to be somebody else. -W. Shatner
 
BN747
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RE: NRA "Big Announcement" Statement... Really?

Fri Dec 21, 2012 9:22 pm

Quoting L-188 (Reply 18):
Oh and i and everybody who spent time in the service can tell you have no idea about weapons security at a military base

I've fired about everything from a .35 to M60 and grenade launchers while doing 4 years...talk the wall.

Quoting L-188 (Reply 18):

BN747

You realize your tax idea would cost ne iver fifty grand a year?

Forget it!

Yes, many people have expensive hobbies, some collect ferraris, some collect expensive suits & shoes, others collect horses....just add guns to the costly prestige list. I see no problem with it whatsoever.

When I fly domestically or abroad to 'shoot airliners', I gotta purchase a ticket (I;m not an airline employee), I must buy a hotel room, rental cars cost money as does food and video equipment supplies. I don't expect any of you to share that cost...nor should I.

Most of you gunowners are hobbyist..so it now becomes an expensive Hobby. Mr. NRA may be on to something.

If all teh people who've said 'I'm a responsible gun owner..' truly were, we could probably slash gun deaths by about 50-70% or more...you want a number I can live with.. that's about right. But as it stands, we've crossed the lone..it's gptta stop!

Your hobby is costing us TOO MANY innocent lives. The tradeoff is simply not worth it. You're 'someone might break in and get me' maybe...is not worth scores of innocent people getting shot to death every freakin' week of the year. And those numbers aren't receding...they are increasing - week by week by week,

A price has to be paid.

So far it's been too many bodies and blood of the innocent.

So yes, bullet taxes, gun owner taxes and escalated it for multiple ownership...no one person can shoot 5 guns at once.

BN747

[Edited 2012-12-21 13:30:18]
"Home of the Brave, made by the Slaves..Land of the Free, if you look like me.." T. Jefferson
 
RussianJet
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RE: NRA "Big Announcement" Statement... Really?

Fri Dec 21, 2012 9:26 pm

Quoting roswell41 (Reply 31):
Is it because many teachers and their union espouse a left wing political ideology that is anti-gun?

Or is it possible that many people for perfectly sane reasons think that a school should not need to be stuffed full of guns in a healthy society? Maybe that's the key word there, healthy - seeing as a lot of people here seem to think that the issue is mental health rather than guns. On that note, how do American mental health stats compare to other western countries where gun crime is lower?
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L-188
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RE: NRA "Big Announcement" Statement... Really?

Fri Dec 21, 2012 9:30 pm

My hobby has never cost anybody their lives.

Rabbits an ptarmigan yes, but not deer, caribou, moose or any other game animals yet.

And people..... Not by their current owner and i only say that because i collect WWII era rifles and some if my examples saw service

And no you dont know squat about army weapons security.
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Ken777
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RE: NRA "Big Announcement" Statement... Really?

Fri Dec 21, 2012 9:31 pm

The NRA School Crossing Guard?

NRA School Guard
 
fr8mech
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RE: NRA "Big Announcement" Statement... Really?

Fri Dec 21, 2012 9:33 pm

Quoting brilondon (Reply 29):
So why don't we teach the 5 and 6 year old children how to properly handle a gun,

A parent would be irresponsible not to teach the children in the home proper gun handling. Of course, the proper handling of a firearm by just about any child under the age of 16 is to NOT handle the firearm and contact a responsible adult, immediately. My 10 and 6 year old know this.

Quoting brilondon (Reply 29):
By the time it was apparent that there was a gunman in the school, he would already dead.

One thing that has not been expanded upon very much is how this dickhead immediately killed himself when he realized there was an armed response. What if that armed response had come from a teacher, parent or administrator? Of course, we'll never know, but it does bear thinking about.

Quoting Pu (Reply 30):
Do you have any idea how far in the opposite direction you are going with ideas like this compared to the rest of the first world -

And here is the problem with that train of thinking. We are not the rest of the free world. Just like Greece is not the US. Just like the UK is not the US, nor is Germany, Japan, France or Australia. We have a different culture. A different history and a outlook. It doesn't mean we can't change.
One thing: there are an estimated 200,000,000 firearms in non-state hands. If there were an instant and immediate gun ban how many of those guns would be turned in? How many would remain in criminal hands (who, by definition, ignore laws)? Would that make Americans safer?
When seconds count...the police are minutes away.
 
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Revelation
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RE: NRA "Big Announcement" Statement... Really?

Fri Dec 21, 2012 9:33 pm

Quoting AirframeAS (Reply 10):
I'm a huge advocate of arming teachers in schools rather hiring one guard in each and every school in this country. It's cheaper and more teachers would be armed vs. only one guard. It's quite easy for a gunman to take out the hired guard then go havoc on the rest if the school.

In my opinion, having armed teachers, like what one Texas school district is doing, is much, much better.

Guns are the problem not the solution. No guns, no shootings.

In Newtown the shooter had body armor, the AR, and more clips than he could shoot through before law enforcement got him. Do you really think a posse of teachers would have changed things much? Clearly things would be a lot different if the shooter didn't have the weapons he had.

Quoting fr8mech (Reply 33):
And, in what world do you live in where out beloved leaders will willingly return power to the people after they have wrested it away?

In what world do you live in where it's the gun owners that have such influence over the government? Are you saying that the only thing preventing Obama et al from "wresting away power" or some such is private gun owners? Are you high?
Inspiration, move me brightly! Light the song with sense and color.
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Faced with mysteries dark and vast, statements just seem vain at last.
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fr8mech
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RE: NRA "Big Announcement" Statement... Really?

Fri Dec 21, 2012 9:43 pm

Quoting Revelation (Reply 40):
In what world do you live in where it's the gun owners that have such influence over the government?

"...the right of the people to keep and bear arms shall not be infringed."

Quoting Revelation (Reply 40):
Are you saying that the only thing preventing Obama et al from "wresting away power" or some such is private gun owners?

Lest you misunderstand me...anytime a law or regulation is written, our liberty is eroded. Yes, many laws are required and necessary to a "free" society in order to maintain order.

When I say power is wrested away from the people, I don't mean a dictatorship, I mean that if one of our liberties are taken away (any one of our liberties) because of some "crisis", it will be darn near impossible to get it back when the "crisis" is over.

"You never let a serious crisis go to waste. And what I mean by that it's an opportunity to do things you think you could not do before." Rahm Emanual
Read more at http://www.brainyquote.com/quotes/qu...nue409199.html#drmQqxu1khZkLESg.99

[Edited 2012-12-21 13:44:42]

[Edited 2012-12-21 13:45:28]
When seconds count...the police are minutes away.
 
ROSWELL41
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RE: NRA "Big Announcement" Statement... Really?

Fri Dec 21, 2012 9:48 pm

Those saying that guns are the problem have a naive and simplistic view of the world. Most mass shooters are cowards and target helpless people. They kill themselves at the first sign of an armed response typically. You will never get rid of the guns, so cross that idea off your list. The next best solution is to make the helpless more protected. That is done through arming qualified individuals and hardening soft targets like schools. The guns are here to stay, let's find some solutions based in reality.
 
mt99
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RE: NRA "Big Announcement" Statement... Really?

Fri Dec 21, 2012 9:51 pm

Quoting fr8mech (Reply 41):
"...the right of the people to keep and bear arms shall not be infringed."

But that can be changed!. The constitution CAN be amended. It can be amended to ban gay marriage, abortion, citizenship rights to kids born on US soil - this can be fixed as well.

Quoting fr8mech (Reply 41):
"...the right of the people to keep and bear arms shall not be infringed."

Let quote the entire sentence shall we:

"A well regulated Militia, being necessary to the security of a free State, the right of the people to keep and bear Arms, shall not be infringed."


Since when did we forget the word: REGULATED?
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L-188
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RE: NRA "Big Announcement" Statement... Really?

Fri Dec 21, 2012 9:53 pm

RiGht on Roswell41..........right on!

Attack thecreal problem.....mental illness
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mt99
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RE: NRA "Big Announcement" Statement... Really?

Fri Dec 21, 2012 9:56 pm

Quoting L-188 (Reply 44):
Attack thecreal problem.....mental illness

And lets pay for it by borrowing money from China!! Yea !!   
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L-188
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RE: NRA "Big Announcement" Statement... Really?

Fri Dec 21, 2012 9:59 pm

Money from china? What has that got to do with this subject?

I would rather see us stop giving away money to countries thst should be borrowing it themselves
OBAMA-WORST PRESIDENT EVER....Even SKOORB would be better.
 
Ken777
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RE: NRA "Big Announcement" Statement... Really?

Fri Dec 21, 2012 10:01 pm

Quoting fr8mech (Reply 39):
What if that armed response had come from a teacher, parent or administrator? Of course, we'll never know, but it does bear thinking about.

The problem with arming teachers & administrators is how they would respond in a battle at school. Train them all you want, but when they are put in basically a hostile fire environment you have to ask how well they can control their actions. Every bullet they fire will end up somewhere - and that somewhere may well be a kid.

Maybe instead we should look at increasing the police departments around the country and give them ongoing training. Buy sufficient police cars and SWAT equipment that there can be a rapid response. That is the critical factor for minimizing damage from what I have read. Fast responders and immediate entry into the school. No waiting around.

So maybe part of new taxes on guns & ammunition can help pay for increases in police forces around the country.
 
mt99
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RE: NRA "Big Announcement" Statement... Really?

Fri Dec 21, 2012 10:03 pm

Quoting L-188 (Reply 46):
Money from china? What has that got to do with this subject?

Where you sleeping during the election campaign? Every cent the government spends is borrowed from China.

How else would you pay to help all the mentally sick people?
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iFlyLOTs
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RE: NRA "Big Announcement" Statement... Really?

Fri Dec 21, 2012 10:10 pm

Quoting L-188 (Reply 46):
Money from china? What has that got to do with this subject?

Well you said a new tax on bullets would cost you $50k a year, so that probably means your against it, so how else pay for it than money from China?
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