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AR385
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Obama, To Impose Gun Control By Decree

Thu Dec 27, 2012 7:53 am

Sorry in Spanish only:

http://internacional.elpais.com/inte.../actualidad/1356556578_642632.html

Excerpts, translated by me.

1."La Casa Blanca amenaza con imponer por decreto medidas para el desarme si para finales de enero el Congreso no logra consensuar propuestas."

The White house threatens to impose by decree measures for disarmament if by the end of January Congress does not manage to agree on proposals

2. "Obama pretende que se logren acciones coordinadas con el Congreso y con las autoridades estatales. Si no se consiguen avances rápidos por ese lado, el presidente parece dispuesto a imponer algunas medidas por decreto. “Utilizaré todos los recursos de mi cargo para hacerlo”, aseguró."

Obama intends to achieve coordinated actions with Congress and with states´ authorities. If no quick advances are reached that way, the President seems intent on imposing certain measurements by decree. "I will use any means available through my office," he stated.

I have no dog in this fight. I am just wondering what impact will an American President generate by controlling guns by decree, if Congress can´t come up with something.
 
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Dreadnought
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RE: Obama, To Impose Gun Control By Decree

Thu Dec 27, 2012 7:59 am

Quoting AR385 (Thread starter):
I have no dog in this fight. I am just wondering what impact will an American President generate by controlling guns by decree, if Congress can´t come up with something.

If he is not very careful, he can be impeached. While the US Constitution holds only a tiny fraction of its former authority, some barriers are not to be crossed without consequence.
Forget dogs and cats - Spay and neuter your liberals.
 
Kiwirob
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RE: Obama, To Impose Gun Control By Decree

Thu Dec 27, 2012 8:01 am

Quoting AR385 (Thread starter):
I have no dog in this fight. I am just wondering what impact will an American President generate by controlling guns by decree, if Congress can´t come up with something.

He doesn't have to worry about re-election so he can get tough and ram through the necessary measurers.
 
Kiwirob
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RE: Obama, To Impose Gun Control By Decree

Thu Dec 27, 2012 8:04 am

Quoting Dreadnought (Reply 1):
If he is not very careful, he can be impeached.

Could you imagine the uproar if a President was impeached over a sensible solution to gun control, I'm pretty sure that would end up breaking the NRA and ensure that gun control issue would be finally sorted in the US.
 
Airstud
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RE: Obama, To Impose Gun Control By Decree

Thu Dec 27, 2012 8:16 am

Quoting kiwirob (Reply 3):
I'm pretty sure that would end up breaking the NRA

You're fairly out of touch with the way things are in this country, if you think there's something that could break the NRA.

The NRA has actually gotten stronger in the aftermath of Sandy Hook, not weaker.

[Edited 2012-12-27 01:15:00]
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MD-90
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RE: Obama, To Impose Gun Control By Decree

Thu Dec 27, 2012 8:16 am

The Democrats aren't that stupid. There's a reason why Biden was appointed to the commission.
 
fr8mech
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RE: Obama, To Impose Gun Control By Decree

Thu Dec 27, 2012 8:19 am

Quoting kiwirob (Reply 2):
he can get tough and ram through the necessary measurers.


The necessary measures are defined by Congress. He can request certain things, but it is up to Congress to pass those measures.

Say what you want to say about partisanship, but, here in the US, there is bipartisan support for gun rights. Both Democrats and Republicans are on the record as strong supporters of The Second Amendment.

Any executive order or regulation pushed through the BATFE (the most probably course of action) will be vacated by the Court system if it runs afoul of legislation and The Second Amendment.

Quoting kiwirob (Reply 3):
Could you imagine the uproar if a President was impeached over a sensible solution to gun control,


No, the president would not be impeached for imposing "a sensible solution to gun control", he would be impeached for exceeding his power as the chief executive by circumventing the constitutional process. The question is: is that an impeachable offense?

[Edited 2012-12-27 00:20:33]
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Aaron747
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RE: Obama, To Impose Gun Control By Decree

Thu Dec 27, 2012 8:43 am

Quoting Dreadnought (Reply 1):
While the US Constitution holds only a tiny fraction of its former authority, some barriers are not to be crossed without consequence.

True enough but executive orders have always been a very grey area in Constitutional law, and past Presidents have got away with extraordinary extensions of executive power as a means of implementing policy change, sometimes with the help of Congress, but other times without.

The internment of Japanese and German Americans in WWII under FDR, the desegregation of schools under Ike, racial integration of the armed forces under Truman - all of these were huge extensions of power under executive order that were neither successfully challenged in Court or thwarted by the Constitutional authority granted to the Congress.
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fr8mech
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RE: Obama, To Impose Gun Control By Decree

Thu Dec 27, 2012 9:04 am

Quoting Aaron747 (Reply 7):
True enough but executive orders have always been a very grey area in Constitutional law, and past Presidents have got away with extraordinary extensions of executive power as a means of implementing policy change, sometimes with the help of Congress, but other times without.

While true, I can't see Congress standing for an infringement into The Second Amendment. Again, there is strong, bipartisan support for gun rights.

I guess it really depends on the measures he decrees and how far he pushes the anti-gun agenda without congressional approval.

Either way, you can depend that any executive order or regulation will be sitting in front of the Supreme Court pretty quick.
When seconds count...the police are minutes away.
 
TheCommodore
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RE: Obama, To Impose Gun Control By Decree

Thu Dec 27, 2012 9:05 am

Quoting Airstud (Reply 4):
The NRA has actually gotten stronger in the aftermath of Sandy Hook, not weaker.

Then its only a matter of time, because....

http://www.brisbanetimes.com.au/worl...-gun-laws-poll-20121227-2bx3b.html

Quoting kiwirob (Reply 3):
Could you imagine the uproar if a President was impeached over a sensible solution to gun control, I'm pretty sure that would end up breaking the NRA and ensure that gun control issue would be finally sorted in the US.

Never say never, crazier things have happened !
“At first, they'll only dislike what you say, but the more correct you start sounding the more they'll dislike you.”
 
JakeOrion
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RE: Obama, To Impose Gun Control By Decree

Thu Dec 27, 2012 9:05 am

Being a gun owner myself, you can say I'm biased. With that said, I have been pondering both pro and anti-gun stances since the school shooting. Where did everything go wrong? What can be done to stop it from occurring again? What are our options?

Questions I've asked myself over and over again, and slowly developed my own realistic answers which would have to happen.

The first question: why not just outright ban guns?

The simple answer, you can't. The more complex answer, you are virtually asking for the entire restructuring of America. The first step that would have to happen is people who comply with the laws would turn in their guns. You have to follow this up by going after registered owners who have not turned in their weapons. Then comes the very hard truth; be forced by authorities for being allowed to search your house for any guns, regardless if you were an owner or not. If you are going to ban guns, they must all be confiscated, which means a house to house, building to building search. There are no other ways around this; it would have to be done.

If the searching wasn't bad enough, the entire boarder of Mexico and Canada would have to be shut down and every single import shipping container would have to be checked to prevent the already huge illegal arms trade. We already have difficulty enough just trying to stop the drugs and illegal crossings, so good luck getting the political will for a virtual customs blockade.

So what do we do to prevent this tragedy from happening again?

Realistically, we can't. You can't stop lunacy or evil. It's everywhere, every continent, every country, down to every city. Unless you want to completely wipe out the human race or figure out a drug that devoids us of emotions, the only responsible answer I can think of is free reign on concealed carry. What I mean by "free reign" is if you are licensed and have been trained to discreetly carry a gun, you are allowed to carry anywhere, anytime, regardless of circumstance. Of course, a yearly refresher course on training as well as a conversation with a police officer or some other authority figure to verify you are sane and are still able to carry your person would be required.

As sadistic as this may come, you can't stop the attempt, but you can minimize the losses.
Every problem has a simple solution; finding the simple solution is the difficult problem.
 
Kiwirob
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RE: Obama, To Impose Gun Control By Decree

Thu Dec 27, 2012 11:59 am

Quoting Airstud (Reply 4):
The NRA has actually gotten stronger in the aftermath of Sandy Hook, not weaker.

   You don't say

Quote:
The USA Today/Gallup Poll found 54 per cent have a favourable opinion of the NRA, down six points from 2005, but generally in line with a series of polls done from 1993-2000.

Read more: http://www.brisbanetimes.com.au/worl...-20121227-2bx3b.html#ixzz2GFjYlbWp
 
JoePatroni707
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RE: Obama, To Impose Gun Control By Decree

Thu Dec 27, 2012 12:56 pm

Quoting Dreadnought (Reply 1):
If he is not very careful, he can be impeached

I think Obama is pretty much impeachment proof. If he is impeached we would be stuck with Biden who is far worse.
 
Rara
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RE: Obama, To Impose Gun Control By Decree

Thu Dec 27, 2012 1:23 pm

Quoting Airstud (Reply 4):
The NRA has actually gotten stronger in the aftermath of Sandy Hook, not weaker.

Let me first say that I have no idea whether that's the case or not. I don't have the necessary insight.

However, on a more general note - when institutions radicalise, they appear to get stronger on first sight because they have a firmer grip on their core constituents, many of whom may be radicals themselves. People rally around the institution, and it appears to be on the upsurge. What really happens, however, is that the more numerous and probably more important people at the fringes turn away from the institution because they're increasingly alienated. They aren't vocal about the process however, in part because the institution appears to gain traction (see above). This can be called radicalisation bias. Again, I don't know whether it applies in the current situation, but it could well apply in the case of the NRA.
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rfields5421
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RE: Obama, To Impose Gun Control By Decree

Thu Dec 27, 2012 2:54 pm

Quoting AR385 (Thread starter):
The White house threatens to impose by decree measures for disarmament if by the end of January Congress does not manage to agree on proposals

The story is a bogus scare hoax.

The White House (assuming they mean the President) does not have such power.

There are a lot of things the President can do. Ordering gun control isn't one of them.

The Federal Assualt Weapons Ban was passed in 1994 and stayed in effect for 10 years. That is the thing I hear most often as being re-implemented. However, the President cannot impose that by decree. It will take the Congress to pass a law to make it happen.

So far, no bill to re-authorize that ban have reached the floor of the House for a vote. It is very unlikley to occur in the next two years.
 
einsteinboricua
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RE: Obama, To Impose Gun Control By Decree

Thu Dec 27, 2012 3:16 pm

Quoting rfields5421 (Reply 14):
Quoting AR385 (Thread starter):
The White house threatens to impose by decree measures for disarmament if by the end of January Congress does not manage to agree on proposals

The story is a bogus scare hoax.

The White House (assuming they mean the President) does not have such power.

There are a lot of things the President can do. Ordering gun control isn't one of them.

The Federal Assualt Weapons Ban was passed in 1994 and stayed in effect for 10 years. That is the thing I hear most often as being re-implemented. However, the President cannot impose that by decree. It will take the Congress to pass a law to make it happen.

So far, no bill to re-authorize that ban have reached the floor of the House for a vote. It is very unlikley to occur in the next two years.

  

Exactly what I was gonna say. While Obama doesn't specify what measures he could take, there's no evidence to suggest he'll rule by decree. I seriously doubt a person who just won reelection would jeopardize his (still to begin) second term in office.
"You haven't seen a tree until you've seen its shadow from the sky."
 
Mir
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RE: Obama, To Impose Gun Control By Decree

Thu Dec 27, 2012 3:26 pm

Quoting Rara (Reply 13):
However, on a more general note - when institutions radicalise, they appear to get stronger on first sight because they have a firmer grip on their core constituents, many of whom may be radicals themselves. People rally around the institution, and it appears to be on the upsurge. What really happens, however, is that the more numerous and probably more important people at the fringes turn away from the institution because they're increasingly alienated.

   See the Republican party post-2010.

-Mir
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DeltaMD90
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RE: Obama, To Impose Gun Control By Decree

Thu Dec 27, 2012 4:10 pm

I don't like this executive order business... seems to circumvent Congress, doesn't it? Of course, when the executive order is in favor of want you want people magically seem to be in favor of them.

Both sides have done it so I'm not singling anyone out

What are the ideas being proposed anyway?

Edit: I do think it's ironic that in other threads, I said it wouldn't be crazy for the President to push gun control in his second term, and I thought he would. I got called paranoid and berated, guess I was right

[Edited 2012-12-27 08:14:04]
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rfields5421
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RE: Obama, To Impose Gun Control By Decree

Thu Dec 27, 2012 4:17 pm

Quoting DeltaMD90 (Reply 17):
I said it wouldn't be crazy for the President to push gun control in his second term,

During the 2008 campaign, bring the Federal Assualt Weapons Ban back before Congress and getting it passed was part of the Obama platform. It was also mentioned in the 2012 platform, but not discusses much.

As far as I can tell, that is the only 'gun control' measure Obama has campaigned or proposed to have occur.
 
D L X
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RE: Obama, To Impose Gun Control By Decree

Thu Dec 27, 2012 4:18 pm

Quoting AR385 (Thread starter):
The White house threatens to impose by decree measures for disarmament if by the end of January Congress does not manage to agree on proposals

This is an extremely dubious allegation. Bogus even. I would love to hear this newspaper's source for this.


However...

Quoting Dreadnought (Reply 1):
If he is not very careful, he can be impeached.

Impeached? Come on man. Get real. Impeachment comes after a "high crime or misdemeanor." Performing governmental duties is inherently NOT an impeachable offense.

In any event, conviction on impeachment requires a two-thirds majority of the Senate. Which 20 democrat Senators do you think are going to vote to convict Obama?

Quoting Dreadnought (Reply 1):
While the US Constitution holds only a tiny fraction of its former authority

If you're saying that the Second Amendment used not to grant an individual right to own a handgun, I agree.
 
D L X
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RE: Obama, To Impose Gun Control By Decree

Thu Dec 27, 2012 4:35 pm

Quoting DeltaMD90 (Reply 17):

I don't like this executive order business... seems to circumvent Congress

Congress's power is not absolute, and the President has the power to be the executive from the Constitution.

Btw, every president, even George Washington, issued these executive orders. Those early presidents did so while the authors of the Constitution were still living, and saw no objection because it was well understood that they were supported by the Constitution.

Also, FWIW, guns were banned in various places in the United States during and after the Second Amendment's ratification, confirming that no one at the time believed that guns were an individual right.
 
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DocLightning
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RE: Obama, To Impose Gun Control By Decree

Thu Dec 27, 2012 5:30 pm

Quoting Dreadnought (Reply 1):
If he is not very careful, he can be impeached. While the US Constitution holds only a tiny fraction of its former authority, some barriers are not to be crossed without consequence.

I will be absolutely unsurprised if Mr. Obama is impeached by the GOP-controlled House this term.

I will be shocked if he is removed by the Senate. In fact, it would be very interesting to see a GOP-controlled House impeach two out of two Democratic Presidents in a row. It would say a lot about how the GOP plays the game.

In the end, this is horse-honkey. Some basic (and I hope "common sense") restrictions on assault weapons will be put in place. Jack-booted, black-clad thugs are not going to show up at your door to take your guns, wife, kids, and dog. I rapidly tire of hearing about how Mr. Obama is going to do all these horrid, dictatorial things in his second term. He's never even mentioned guns until recent events. It's really all a straw man tactic to draw attention from the real issue, which is the Fiscal Cliff and the GOP's absolute refusal to come to the table and negotiate.

The fact is that Mr. Obama has made less sweeping use of his Presidential powers than the majority of his predecessors. Perhaps it's time he started doing exactly what the GOP is so fond of accusing him of doing.
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L-188
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RE: Obama, To Impose Gun Control By Decree

Thu Dec 27, 2012 5:59 pm

As long as the senate is in the hands of democrats there will be no impeachment.

But I have no doubt that Obummer will try and use his executive privileges to restrict this critical civil right.

It definitely would confirm my thoughts about the SOB
OBAMA-WORST PRESIDENT EVER....Even SKOORB would be better.
 
Superfly
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RE: Obama, To Impose Gun Control By Decree

Thu Dec 27, 2012 6:02 pm

Not surprised by any of this. Obama has been wanting disarm the American people his entire political career. Just look at his voting record as a state Senator in Illinois. Obama was simply looking for a disaster and take advantage of the situation to push legislation he has always wanted to push.
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Mir
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RE: Obama, To Impose Gun Control By Decree

Thu Dec 27, 2012 6:15 pm

Quoting Superfly (Reply 23):
Obama was simply looking for a disaster

If he was looking for a disaster, he must have missed Ft. Hood and Aurora.

-Mir
7 billion, one nation, imagination...it's a beautiful day
 
rfields5421
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RE: Obama, To Impose Gun Control By Decree

Thu Dec 27, 2012 6:35 pm

Quoting L-188 (Reply 22):
As long as the senate is in the hands of democrats there will be no impeachment.

Impeachment is solely the responsibility/ authority of the House - the Senate has nothing to do with impeachment until after the fact.

The Senate is where the trial is held after the President, or other person (normally federal judges) are impeached.

Impeachment is about the same as having a grand jury indictment. It is not a conviction.

No one on this thread thinks the President could be removed from office after a Senate trial.

Only that the House Republicans might force the country to spend tens of millions of your tax dollars for another useless show trial like they did with Clinton.
 
Superfly
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RE: Obama, To Impose Gun Control By Decree

Thu Dec 27, 2012 6:43 pm

Quoting Mir (Reply 24):
he must have missed Ft. Hood



He didn't want to 'rush to judgment' in that case even though it was clear what the motive was behind that. Of course Barack Hussein Obama would never come out call that for what it was.

Quoting Mir (Reply 24):
Aurora.


That was before the election.
Bring back the Concorde
 
seb146
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RE: Obama, To Impose Gun Control By Decree

Thu Dec 27, 2012 7:08 pm

Quoting Dreadnought (Reply 1):
If he is not very careful, he can be impeached. While the US Constitution holds only a tiny fraction of its former authority, some barriers are not to be crossed without consequence.

oh, for the love of....

Because no president ever in the history of the Republic has ever issued a presidential delcaration and circumvented congress, have they? Let's not forget the previous administration firing judges who "serve at the pleasure of the president" and the uproar over that? Or did that not happen because it was the previous administration who's name shall never be mentioned?
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D L X
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RE: Obama, To Impose Gun Control By Decree

Thu Dec 27, 2012 7:10 pm

Quoting rfields5421 (Reply 25):
Only that the House Republicans might force the country to spend tens of millions of your tax dollars for another useless show trial like they did with Clinton.

Republicans didn't even get their show trial with Clinton. The Senate shut the whole thing down almost immediately when it got to them.

Impeachment is not, and was never meant to be a political tool. Dreadnought severely overreached in his post.

Quoting Superfly (Reply 26):
He didn't want to 'rush to judgment' in that case even though it was clear what the motive was behind that.

What does this even mean?

What the motive was behind what?

I swear, sometimes you say these things as if you know the guy, but you have never met him. Your hatred for this man is so personal.
 
Superfly
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RE: Obama, To Impose Gun Control By Decree

Thu Dec 27, 2012 7:51 pm

Quoting D L X (Reply 28):
What does this even mean?

What the motive was behind what?



It's so obvious that Obama has an affinity for the religion the Fort Hood terrorist belonged to. In fact, Obama and his justice refused to call it a terrorist attack. Instead he calls it "workplace violence".  
There were no actions by Obama to ban guns in that case. Of course he doesn't mind if a certain religious group clinks to their guns & religion...
Bring back the Concorde
 
D L X
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RE: Obama, To Impose Gun Control By Decree

Thu Dec 27, 2012 8:08 pm

Quoting Superfly (Reply 29):
It's so obvious that Obama has an affinity for the religion the Fort Hood terrorist belonged to. In fact, Obama and his justice refused to call it a terrorist attack. Instead he calls it "workplace violence".  
There were no actions by Obama to ban guns in that case. Of course he doesn't mind if a certain religious group clinks to their guns & religion...

Right.

Where is this shooter today? Is he free?

 
 
Superfly
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RE: Obama, To Impose Gun Control By Decree

Thu Dec 27, 2012 8:12 pm

Quoting D L X (Reply 30):
Where is this shooter today? Is he free?

In jail like a lot of criminals for workplace violence.
Bring back the Concorde
 
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casinterest
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RE: Obama, To Impose Gun Control By Decree

Thu Dec 27, 2012 8:32 pm

Quoting Superfly (Reply 31):
In jail like a lot of criminals for workplace violence.

And calling it terrorism makes you feel warm and comfortable at night? Was this guy any different from a postal worker that goes postal?

Although evidence points to ties to Al Queda, and a serious ideological manifestation of fundamentalism, it seems to me that his final motive is unclear. Some could be correct that he wanted to avoid being deployed to afghanistan and snapped. His mental state is unclear, and it is better for the FBI and Defense Department to sort it out.

Workplace violence is just as valid as terrorism for the case of this trial. Even better, he faces the death penalty under either scenerio.
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mham001
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RE: Obama, To Impose Gun Control By Decree

Thu Dec 27, 2012 9:33 pm

It seems we are discussing somebodies interpretation of something which has then been re-translated.

Obama never said anything about "disarmament".
 
seb146
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RE: Obama, To Impose Gun Control By Decree

Thu Dec 27, 2012 11:00 pm

And another thing I want to clear up:

There have been a number of mass shootings over the past four years. More over the course of the nation, but I am keeping it to four years just for my point.

On a completely unrelated issue, extremists keep screaming about "That Kenyan Muslim Communist Marxist Maoist Facist Liberal Radical who went to a Christian church for 20 years where the pastor had a sermon we disagree with is gonna take our guns if he is elected again!".

So, now, after all these shooings, innocent people dead at the hands of automatic weapons, the most powerful lobby in the nation telling us there is no problem at all, there might be one hint from a Spanish language source that there is talk about maybe talking about doing something and, again comes the cries and hews of "That Kenyan Muslim Communist Marxist Maoist Facist Liberal Radical is gonna take our guns!"

But, they don't see what one has to do with the other.
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Ken777
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RE: Obama, To Impose Gun Control By Decree

Thu Dec 27, 2012 11:13 pm

Queer, isn't it., that this is the only link.

How about a major news outlet in the US?

Quoting Dreadnought (Reply 1):
If he is not very careful, he can be impeached.

My bet is that Obama knows more about the Constitution than all of us combined? I also look for him to do a better job of protecting the American people than most people.

Quoting Airstud (Reply 4):
The NRA has actually gotten stronger in the aftermath of Sandy Hook, not weaker.

Which is sad. Actually pathetic when you consider that they gain strength from a pile of slaughtered 6 year old.
 
GDB
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RE: Obama, To Impose Gun Control By Decree

Fri Dec 28, 2012 12:20 am

Quoting Superfly (Reply 29):
It's so obvious that Obama has an affinity for the religion the Fort Hood terrorist belonged to. In fact, Obama and his justice refused to call it a terrorist attack. Instead he calls it "workplace violence".  
There were no actions by Obama to ban guns in that case. Of course he doesn't mind if a certain religious group clinks to their guns & religion...

You've really lost it this time.......
I could mention the hugely accelerated erosion of Al Queda and affiliates leadership and top members under Obama's watch and direction, including Osama Bin-Sleeps With the Fishes but I don't really think logic and facts play well here.

You and Donald Trump....and a bunch of other people you really don't want to be associated with.
(Or maybe you do).

You do know 'The Flat Earth Society' still exists?
No great stretch for you to give them a shot at this point?
 
connies4ever
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RE: Obama, To Impose Gun Control By Decree

Fri Dec 28, 2012 12:43 am

Quoting GDB (Reply 36):
You've really lost it this time.......
I could mention the hugely accelerated erosion of Al Queda and affiliates leadership and top members under Obama's watch and direction, including Osama Bin-Sleeps With the Fishes but I don't really think logic and facts play well here.

You and Donald Trump....and a bunch of other people you really don't want to be associated with.
(Or maybe you do).

You do know 'The Flat Earth Society' still exists?
No great stretch for you to give them a shot at this point?

GDB: All excellent points !  

Does it strike you that the increasingly shrill responses from the far right are starting to encroach onto the turf usually described as "behaviourally disturbed" if not "loony bin" ? Sadly, I have to ascribe some of the anti-Obama positions taken on this and other threads are a manifestation of racial viewpoints that have been discarded by most.
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PHX787
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RE: Obama, To Impose Gun Control By Decree

Fri Dec 28, 2012 1:13 am

Quoting Dreadnought (Reply 1):
If he is not very careful, he can be impeached. While the US Constitution holds only a tiny fraction of its former authority, some barriers are not to be crossed without consequence.

Just wanna add to this: if he is not careful, he could get impeached, AND shot at by some gun-happy southerners.
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DocLightning
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RE: Obama, To Impose Gun Control By Decree

Fri Dec 28, 2012 1:19 am

Quoting PHX787 (Reply 38):
Just wanna add to this: if he is not careful, he could get impeached, AND shot at by some gun-happy southerners.

I can guarantee you that the Secret Service is absolutely prepared for such an attempt. Nobody will ever get a clear shot at the President.
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RE: Obama, To Impose Gun Control By Decree

Fri Dec 28, 2012 1:36 am

Quoting PHX787 (Reply 38):
Just wanna add to this: if he is not careful, he could get impeached, AND shot at by some gun-happy southerners.

Which really paints gun owners as reasonable, responsible people....  

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RE: Obama, To Impose Gun Control By Decree

Fri Dec 28, 2012 1:45 am

Quoting seb146 (Reply 34):
So, now, after all these shooings, innocent people dead at the hands of automatic weapons, the most powerful lobby in the nation telling us there is no problem at all, there might be one hint from a Spanish language source that there is talk about maybe talking about doing something and, again comes the cries and hews of "That Kenyan Muslim Communist Marxist Maoist Facist Liberal Radical is gonna take our guns!"

I doubt I'm in the boat you refer to, but I did post a few months ago that I was surprised the President hasn't touched the gun issue and I wouldn't be surprised if he did this term. And it seems like I was right. But to be fair, I don't think he's a "Kenyan Muslim Communist Marxist Maoist Racist Radical" (although he is liberal   ) and I don't think he's gonna take "all guns" but I do see some "assault weapons" going away or some high capacity magazines disappearing.

If high capacity mags go away, that would be annoying at most, and I'd hope they'd at least allow high capacity .22 mags (pretty much harmless,) exemptions for guns like SKS's which ONLY have a 10 round internal magazine, and maybe some annoying hoops to go through to get high capacity mags... kinda like getting a silencer. As a collector, I'd be halfway happy having my AK having a full length magazine for looks even if it only holds 5 rounds.


I'm bending really far back, just trying to find common ground. It's brutal here, being seen as a traitor from my fellow gun owners and a 'gun nut' from everyone else lol. And seb, they aren't automatic weapons!!   Semi semi semi lol
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RE: Obama, To Impose Gun Control By Decree

Fri Dec 28, 2012 2:02 am

Quoting Dreadnought (Reply 1):
If he is not very careful, he can be impeached. While the US Constitution holds only a tiny fraction of its former authority, some barriers are not to be crossed without consequence.

House Impeaches...which didn't really do much to get rid of Clinton.

Senate tries for removal...guess who is in charge there.
 
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RE: Obama, To Impose Gun Control By Decree

Fri Dec 28, 2012 2:46 am

Quoting kiwirob (Reply 11):
Quoting Airstud (Reply 4):The NRA has actually gotten stronger in the aftermath of Sandy Hook, not weaker.
You don't say

Quote:The USA Today/Gallup Poll found 54 per cent have a favourable opinion of the NRA, down six points from 2005, but generally in line with a series of polls done from 1993-2000.

You DO realize that equating favorability poll results with the strength and political clout of an organization is like using jersey sales to forecast which team has the best shot at winning the Super Bowl, right?   
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RE: Obama, To Impose Gun Control By Decree

Fri Dec 28, 2012 3:17 am

Quoting PHX787 (Reply 38):
Just wanna add to this: if he is not careful, he could get impeached, AND shot at by some gun-happy southerners.

Awww, you're just saying that to make me feel good...

  
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RE: Obama, To Impose Gun Control By Decree

Fri Dec 28, 2012 3:37 am

Quoting fr8mech (Reply 8):
While true, I can't see Congress standing for an infringement into The Second Amendment. Again, there is strong, bipartisan support for gun rights.

Here is the question Americans have to ask themselves. Does the constitution grant the right for any citizen to carry a gun regardless of their ability to use one responsibly? (ie. former criminal or someone with mental health issues)

Most Americans don't think everyone can just walk in and buy a gun if you have done things in your life that put you at risk for using it as a weapon.

Quoting JakeOrion (Reply 10):
The first question: why not just outright ban guns?

No sensible American is suggesting that.

What sensible people are suggesting is that anyone wanting to own a gun no matter how they buy it (dealer, private sale, or gun show) be subjected to a background check. I would say that that should include criminal, all medical records and 2-3 character references of 5 years or more that the prospective gun owner can supply.

I know why the NRA and gun dealers don't want to because it will hurt their sales, it simply goes back to the money and sadly (I mean very   ) a massacre like Newtown gives them a boost in business.

Quoting JakeOrion (Reply 10):
Realistically, we can't. You can't stop lunacy or evil. It's everywhere, every continent, every country, down to every city.
Quoting Superfly (Reply 26):
Quoting Mir (Reply 24):
Aurora.


That was before the election.

Obama was president then and had he lost the election he still would be president today

Quoting Superfly (Reply 31):
Quoting D L X (Reply 30):
Where is this shooter today? Is he free?

In jail like a lot of criminals for workplace violence.

Where he will stay and he will probably get then needle.

Quoting PHX787 (Reply 38):
Just wanna add to this: if he is not careful, he could get impeached, AND shot at by some gun-happy southerners.

Believe me the GOP is probably looking into every reason to throw Obama out of office but with a democratic senate and no concrete evidence of Obama intentionally deceiving anyone to the people like Clinton did (forgetting the reason).

Also I bet the same is true with your second point, IIRC in 2009 alone the secret service recorded about 400% the assassination threats in a given time-frame than Bush II got.
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RE: Obama, To Impose Gun Control By Decree

Fri Dec 28, 2012 4:37 am

Quoting seb146 (Reply 34):
So, now, after all these shooings, innocent people dead at the hands of automatic weapons, the most powerful lobby in the nation telling us there is no problem at all, there might be one hint from a Spanish language source that there is talk about maybe talking about doing something and, again comes the cries and hews of "That Kenyan Muslim Communist Marxist Maoist Facist Liberal Radical is gonna take our guns!"

Goes to show you how far people will go to slam square pegs into round holes to fit their self-invented conspiracy theories.

Clearly any amount of gun control is something they don't want, so they immediately paint any attempt at change as jack booted storm troopers coming to take their guns, and impregnate their dogs while they are at it.

For a bunch of people who are convinced any gun control is futile, they sure go to great lengths to avoid it.
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RE: Obama, To Impose Gun Control By Decree

Fri Dec 28, 2012 5:40 am

The way I see it is along these lines:

Heroin is illegal.
Cocaine is illegal.
Marijuana is illegal (Federally)
Dog Fighting is illegal.

So some examples of illegal things. So if they are illegal..........Why do they still occur/people use them?

Because, lets be honest, there is no way to truly prevent the people who want them/to do such things from doing so or acquiring them.

Guns.....I remember something called 'Fast and Furious.' Not the movie.

Anyways, the people who want guns will get them. Lets face it. I believe our best defense it, as some have mentioned, more lenient conceal/carry laws that apply to those who demonstrate an ability to use a firearm in a responsible and safe manner.
I believe that in the future, a civilian (non-police/military) person is going to SAVE people because they have a gun in a situation where that is the only defense.

I would rather have 50 people carrying concealed weapons in a mall, who are responsible and honest, than 1 who intends to do harm.

Sure, this is a somewhat hopeful view, but teh fact of the matter is, this is the world we live in and there are many out there who would do something as terrible as the connecticut shootings.

Still I will say this, becasue I am capable of understanding two sides to an agruement. The shooter in Connecticut had a mental/behaviorial disorder. HOWEVER, he lived in a household where he was trained to use and access his mothers weapons. I really question that.

In addition. There is NO reason why anyone should own a fully automatic weapon. That I do believe is unnecessary.
 
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RE: Obama, To Impose Gun Control By Decree

Fri Dec 28, 2012 5:57 am

Quoting GDB (Reply 36):
You've really lost it this time.......
Quoting connies4ever (Reply 37):
"behaviourally disturbed" if not "loony bin"

Maj. Nidal Malik Hasan guns down people shouting "Allahu Akbar!" and Obama can't acknowledge it as terrorism, yet I am "behaviourally disturbed" and have "lost it "?
It's pretty obvious to me and millions of others what that killing was all about.
Keep up with the personal insults towards those that don't share your views. It really helps the discussion.  
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RE: Obama, To Impose Gun Control By Decree

Fri Dec 28, 2012 6:00 am

Quoting DeltaMD90 (Reply 41):
And seb, they aren't automatic weapons!

The only difference I know is automatic/semi-automatic weapons can take out mass amounts of people at one time. My rant was directed toward the screaming "conservatives" that seem to be the only ones the media wants to listen to. Probably for ratings. I was in no way referring to sane people.

I, too, have no problem with *RESPONSIBLE* gun ownership. I do not see the need for private citizens to own automatic/semi-automatic weapons. Maybe if collecters would disarm them? Make them so they don't fire as many rounds?

Quoting Ken777 (Reply 35):
My bet is that Obama knows more about the Constitution than all of us combined?

Well, he was editor of Harvard Law Review and studies Constitutional law. Which the right loves to forget.
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