CometII
Topic Author
Posts: 291
Joined: Tue Dec 28, 1999 6:02 am

The Most Embarrassing Display Of Governance?

Mon Dec 31, 2012 6:52 pm

I was thinking about this and thought it could make an interesting topic.

I personally think this whole Fiscal Cliff Kabuki dance ranks amongst the lowest and most embarrassing moments in the history of the republic. The childishness of it all, including the fact that they are counting the hours and minutes and seconds down to Jan 1st, when these people had well over a year of warning to get something done, reminds me of the procrastinating soul we all pity when he/she at the last moment is rushing to the post office to file taxes (and having to stand in a huge line), or frantically clicking away online to pay for the electricity, water, and credit cards... you know, that person that knows a deadline is coming months in advance and still they can't manage to get it done until the very last second. I'm sure eveyone knows such a person, perhaps we ourselves have been like that at some point.

But I'm sure others may disagree and give other examples of the lowest of the low when it comes to democratic governance. The Communist paranoia of the 50s perhaps? The Clinton Impeachment? The Clarence Thomas hearings?

So the question is, what to you qualifies as the most embarrassing and pointless moment in government? All a.netters are welcome to give examples from their own countries too, not just the USA. I guess to keep it within some limits, lets refrain from talking about military operations, assassinations, or periods of military or dictatorial rule, all of which are outside democratic parameters.

Well, I have given my opinion, I think this is fiscal cliff is it, because it is so totally useless theater.
 
Okie
Posts: 3554
Joined: Wed Jul 16, 2003 11:30 am

RE: The Most Embarrassing Display Of Governance?

Mon Dec 31, 2012 7:19 pm

Quoting CometII (Thread starter):
Well, I have given my opinion, I think this is fiscal cliff is it, because it is so totally useless theater

Let us see
Bush Tax Cuts
or off the cliff and we have
Obama Largest Tax Increase in US history, which will more than likely clobber the US economy.

So there is seriously high drama at the Whitehouse and the media because if a deal is not done Obama will take the rap.

Okie
 
User avatar
zckls04
Posts: 2588
Joined: Fri Dec 30, 2011 6:55 pm

RE: The Most Embarrassing Display Of Governance?

Mon Dec 31, 2012 7:40 pm

I've thought about many different failures, but I can't think of anything more embarrassing than what's going on right now.
Four Granavox Turbines!
 
User avatar
DeltaMD90
Posts: 8245
Joined: Tue Apr 15, 2008 11:25 pm

RE: The Most Embarrassing Display Of Governance?

Mon Dec 31, 2012 7:54 pm

I wouldn't say the fiscal cliff is the most embarrassing... I'd broaden it out to include everything that has been happening for the past few years

I personally think the fiscal cliff is overrated... bad, but not the end of the world like many make it sound like
Ironically I have never flown a Delta MD-90 :)
 
connies4ever
Posts: 3393
Joined: Sat Feb 25, 2006 10:54 pm

RE: The Most Embarrassing Display Of Governance?

Mon Dec 31, 2012 7:55 pm

I'd have to say Prohibition was one of the dumbest things that either the Canadian (1st) or American governments have ever done. Since the Mob was able to supply what the public wanted, it made them respectable. And they've done very well since then, thank you.

Our (Canadian) treatment of non-white immigrants (Chinese, Indian, mostly) was shameful, directly at the feet of the government of the day. It's only now, 70-80 years after the fact that we get around to, reluctantly, make an apology. Shows the latent racism that pervades us.

Seizure of ethnic Japanese property in BC, mostly Victoria, after start of Pacific War. These people were already Canadian citizens, but property seized and not returned after WW2. Sold to white people. Ethnic Japanese transported mostly to Alberta and kept in concentration camps. Pure racism. One wonders what the reaction would be if Parliament passed a bill seizing those lands again and granting them to the descendants of the ethnic Japanese that used to live there.

Same goes for feds refusal to admit Jewish refugees late 30s from the "St Louis". Many wound up in Auschwitz.

And that says nothing about our aboriginal population. That is just a ticking time bomb. In Manitoba, 90% of the prison population. Is it a goal to victimize an entire group of people ? Surely there has to be a better way.

Maybe not spot on with OP's intent, but some examples of epic fail by both my federal and provincial governments.


Absolutely no moral fibre in those governments. I hope we have improved on that issue, but I am not sure.
Nostalgia isn't what it used to be.
 
cptkrell
Posts: 3186
Joined: Sun Sep 23, 2001 10:50 pm

RE: The Most Embarrassing Display Of Governance?

Mon Dec 31, 2012 7:59 pm

"...these people had well over a year of warning to get something done." (Topic Starter)

Well over a year?

IIRC, the last "true" federal budget was passed in 1997, Clinton admin. I welcome a correction on that if I'm wrong.

BTW, who invented the term "fiscal cliff"? Was it the politicians or the media? Can't remember when I started hearing it. Regards...jack
all best; jack
 
User avatar
DocLightning
Posts: 19820
Joined: Wed Nov 16, 2005 8:51 am

RE: The Most Embarrassing Display Of Governance?

Mon Dec 31, 2012 8:03 pm

Quoting CometII (Thread starter):
But I'm sure others may disagree and give other examples of the lowest of the low when it comes to democratic governance. The Communist paranoia of the 50s perhaps? The Clinton Impeachment? The Clarence Thomas hearings?

I don't think that the Thomas hearings count. There were and continue to be some serious questions about Mr. Thomas's professional behavior. Of course, he is Supreme now, so he is beyond scrutiny.

Also, in the last two years, I believe that the House repealed Obamacare something like over 40 times. Now, you may disagree with Obamacare, but engaging in a repeated and obvious futile activity on the taxpayer dime doesn't square with being a party that has marketed itself as being fiscally responsible.

I predict that this House will impeach Mr. Obama at least once this term.
-Doc Lightning-

"The sky calls to us. If we do not destroy ourselves, we will one day venture to the stars."
-Carl Sagan
 
connies4ever
Posts: 3393
Joined: Sat Feb 25, 2006 10:54 pm

RE: The Most Embarrassing Display Of Governance?

Mon Dec 31, 2012 9:10 pm

Quoting DocLightning (Reply 6):
Also, in the last two years, I believe that the House repealed Obamacare something like over 40 times. Now, you may disagree with Obamacare, but engaging in a repeated and obvious futile activity on the taxpayer dime doesn't square with being a party that has marketed itself as being fiscally responsible.

I predict that this House will impeach Mr. Obama at least once this term.

Agree, sadly, with you Doc.

And whatever the impetus for an impeachment motion is, won't pass the Senate, but will be a huge, colossal waste of time. And will make Mitch McConnell smile, since he will the be able to say that Obama has done nothing. Only because the GOP used land mines, not because they had the interests of Americans at heart.

The GOP used to be a respectable partner in the American democratic debate. Thanks to the Teabaggers, not so anymore.
Nostalgia isn't what it used to be.
 
Braniff747SP
Posts: 2567
Joined: Sun Oct 26, 2008 4:56 am

RE: The Most Embarrassing Display Of Governance?

Mon Dec 31, 2012 9:54 pm

In the history of the Republic? Japanese internment camps and the McCarthy witch hunts.

"Land of the free".
The 747 will always be the TRUE queen of the skies!
 
StarAC17
Posts: 3400
Joined: Thu Aug 07, 2003 11:54 am

RE: The Most Embarrassing Display Of Governance?

Mon Dec 31, 2012 9:56 pm

Quoting okie (Reply 1):
So there is seriously high drama at the Whitehouse and the media because if a deal is not done Obama will take the rap.

Have you looked at the polls?? The majority of Americans say that if a deal isn't reached they blame the house and not Obama.

Bohener also wants a deal but the tea party members such as Eric Cantor will not agree to any compromises and he needs their votes, its the GOP that is divided here.

IIRC The senate has passed something that can't get through the house and Obama won re-election while gaining in the senate.

Why should he not exercise the leverage?? Republicans have with less legislative power than him.

Quoting connies4ever (Reply 4):
I'd have to say Prohibition was one of the dumbest things that either the Canadian (1st) or American governments have ever done. Since the Mob was able to supply what the public wanted, it made them respectable. And they've done very well since then, thank you.

Agreed, along with the War on Drugs.

Quoting connies4ever (Reply 7):
And will make Mitch McConnell smile, since he will the be able to say that Obama has done nothing.

Yeah but the problem with that is the public didn't buy that in November and I they will make the GOP pay for it in 2014.

Quoting DocLightning (Reply 6):
I predict that this House will impeach Mr. Obama at least once this term.

The GOP better watch themselves, they only hold the house and in 2014 they could be sent packing giving Obama full power with no need to seek re-election in 2016.
Engineers Rule The World!!!!!
 
Mir
Posts: 19107
Joined: Mon Jan 05, 2004 3:55 am

RE: The Most Embarrassing Display Of Governance?

Mon Dec 31, 2012 11:32 pm

Quoting StarAC17 (Reply 9):
The GOP better watch themselves, they only hold the house and in 2014 they could be sent packing giving Obama full power with no need to seek re-election in 2016.

Won't happen. Not because the country will still like them more, because that's already not the case - the Democrats won the popular vote in the House this past election. But because they've gerrymandered the districts so much, a GOP majority is completely safe in 2014.

Gerrymandering, incidentally, is also a reason we're in the state that we're in, as it helps extremists more than moderates. You can see the result in the hardliners that now inhabit Congress and refuse to give in on their principles, no matter how contrary to the principles of divided government that may be.

-Mir
7 billion, one nation, imagination...it's a beautiful day
 
Klaus
Posts: 20622
Joined: Wed Jul 11, 2001 7:41 am

RE: The Most Embarrassing Display Of Governance?

Tue Jan 01, 2013 12:09 am

Where you voted for your "tea party" candidates and told them to be rigidly ideological, protecting the tax cuts for the richest no matter what and refusing any sane attempt of a compromise, that's just what they're doing.

You've got zero rights to complain if you voted for one of them.
 
ltbewr
Posts: 12423
Joined: Thu Jan 29, 2004 1:24 pm

RE: The Most Embarrassing Display Of Governance?

Tue Jan 01, 2013 12:33 am

I do agree that in the post WWII era, this massive budget/spending/taxation fight commonly know as the 'fiscal cliff' is one of the most embarassing displays of our government leaders we elect. You have two massive conflicting issues - limits on revenues due to a changing economy long term with no one willing to pay more in taxes and the other that no one wants cuts in government spending (but for war).
Until people accept thay have to pay more in taxes and accept less subsidies from government, then nothing will change.
 
wingman
Posts: 2829
Joined: Thu May 27, 1999 4:25 am

RE: The Most Embarrassing Display Of Governance?

Tue Jan 01, 2013 12:41 am

I'd have to say Cheney and his neocon circle jerk team telling Colin Powell to go in front of the world at the UN with a plastic Fedex overnight tube and declare that we had incontrovertible proof that Saddam had ICBMs locked on New York City. That was embarrassing. Cutting taxes and then spending $1T on an idiotic war with Dick telling us deficits don't matter. Christ, that was epic embarrassment. How that moron isn't in prison is a wonder.
 
connies4ever
Posts: 3393
Joined: Sat Feb 25, 2006 10:54 pm

RE: The Most Embarrassing Display Of Governance?

Tue Jan 01, 2013 3:11 am

Quoting Mir (Reply 10):
Gerrymandering, incidentally, is also a reason we're in the state that we're in, as it helps extremists more than moderates. You can see the result in the hardliners that now inhabit Congress and refuse to give in on their principles, no matter how contrary to the principles of divided government that may be.

Very much agreed. Harper's magazine recently had a piece on that very topic. But how you get out of the straitjacket is difficult to see.

Quoting ltbewr (Reply 12):
You have two massive conflicting issues - limits on revenues due to a changing economy long term with no one willing to pay more in taxes and the other that no one wants cuts in government spending (but for war).
Until people accept thay have to pay more in taxes and accept less subsidies from government, then nothing will change.

Sadly now infecting Canada as well. For everything that gets built (roads & bridges, for example), or done ('justice' system) there is a cost. Someone has to pay it. Looks like maybe, just maybe, Jerry Brown in California has moved that topic off top dead centre (Prop 13 I believe, going back some ways).

Quoting wingman (Reply 13):
I'd have to say Cheney and his neocon circle jerk team telling Colin Powell to go in front of the world at the UN with a plastic Fedex overnight tube and declare that we had incontrovertible proof that Saddam had ICBMs locked on New York City. That was embarrassing. Cutting taxes and then spending $1T on an idiotic war with Dick telling us deficits don't matter. Christ, that was epic embarrassment. How that moron isn't in prison is a wonder.


Wholeheartedly agree. Not just Cheney, but Rummy, Libby, Wolfowitz, Feith, etc. Chain gang material actually. Make them do an honest day's work. Mind you, we have our own jagoffs up here.
Nostalgia isn't what it used to be.
 
seb146
Posts: 14050
Joined: Wed Dec 01, 1999 7:19 am

RE: The Most Embarrassing Display Of Governance?

Tue Jan 01, 2013 4:23 am

It's good to see someone mention the government internment camps. What about the government looking the other way when rail road companies kidnapped Irish and Chinese to build our railroads? So many men literally worked to death building the railroads in this country. I would even argue that civil rights taking so long to be implemented was an embarassment.
Patriotic and Proud Liberal
 
connies4ever
Posts: 3393
Joined: Sat Feb 25, 2006 10:54 pm

RE: The Most Embarrassing Display Of Governance?

Tue Jan 01, 2013 6:47 am

Quoting seb146 (Reply 15):
It's good to see someone mention the government internment camps.



Where I have worked for more than a decade, the cafetaria used to be the bunkhouse for the German POWs who cleared the worksite by hand (forced labour ? I thought under the Geneva Convention that POWs could not be forced to work). Horses dragged the felled trees away. In a Canadian winter, not pleasant work. Makes one think.

Quoting seb146 (Reply 15):
What about the government looking the other way when rail road companies kidnapped Irish and Chinese to build our railroads? So many men literally worked to death building the railroads in this country.

Not sure about kidnapping, but ...

In Canada, mostly Irish in the east, Chinese west of the Rockies. On the great plains I simply don't know. A common (and strongly racist) statement in those days was, when a Chinese labourer got blown up carrying nitro into a tunnel, was "Get me another Chinaman !". They were viewed as expendable resources. Perhaps by the standards of the day it was considered OK, hopefully we have come some distance from that.

The great leveller for the Irish here in Ontario was, amazingly, malaria. Or so I've been led to believe.
Nostalgia isn't what it used to be.
 
WestJet747
Posts: 1950
Joined: Sat Aug 06, 2011 7:43 pm

RE: The Most Embarrassing Display Of Governance?

Tue Jan 01, 2013 8:06 am

Quoting DeltaMD90 (Reply 3):
I personally think the fiscal cliff is overrated

Agreed...and I sincerely believe the media is to blame. It's not even just Fox or MSNBC, but all of them.

Quoting connies4ever (Reply 4):

I would add the provincial governments of Ontario and Quebec.

Ontario: eHealth, Orange, power plants, Bill 115
Quebec: mafia involvement in building infrastructure, Bill 101, voting in an obviously separatist premier

Quoting connies4ever (Reply 14):
Mind you, we have our own jagoffs up here.

True, I happened to (regretfully) vote for one in the last election. I voted for Stephen Woodworth simply because I supported the Conservative party, without knowing that Woodworth governs by his religious beliefs rather than what is best for Canadians. But with that said, I still prefer our jagoffs to the jagoffs south of the 49th parallel. *dons flamesuit*

Quoting connies4ever (Reply 16):
forced labour ? I thought under the Geneva Convention that POWs could not be forced to work

Only if the work is deemed "dangerous".

Quoting connies4ever (Reply 16):
hopefully we have come some distance from that.

Considering we are the most multicultural country on the planet, I'd say we have.
Flying refined.
 
User avatar
Revelation
Posts: 13988
Joined: Wed Feb 09, 2005 9:37 pm

RE: The Most Embarrassing Display Of Governance?

Tue Jan 01, 2013 1:55 pm

Interesting thread, but as a US citizen, it's clear to me that mere embarassment is not very high on their list of concerns. First is getting all the money they need to get re-elected, second is insuring their future after they don't get re-elected, third is avoiding dealing with any issue that would make it harder to get re-elected.

Quoting ltbewr (Reply 12):
I do agree that in the post WWII era, this massive budget/spending/taxation fight commonly know as the 'fiscal cliff' is one of the most embarassing displays of our government leaders we elect. You have two massive conflicting issues - limits on revenues due to a changing economy long term with no one willing to pay more in taxes and the other that no one wants cuts in government spending (but for war).
Until people accept thay have to pay more in taxes and accept less subsidies from government, then nothing will change.

In 20/20 hindsight, it's strange that we've all gone along with this silly process. First, let's wait for a report, that then gets totally ignored. Second, let's appoint a super-committee, those folks will sort it out. Nope, that didn't work, so let's let the better part of a year go by till we end up having automatic cuts we could have had decided on a long time ago.
Inspiration, move me brightly! Light the song with sense and color.
Hold away despair, more than this I will not ask.
Faced with mysteries dark and vast, statements just seem vain at last.
Some rise, some fall, some climb, to get to Terrapin!
 
ltbewr
Posts: 12423
Joined: Thu Jan 29, 2004 1:24 pm

RE: The Most Embarrassing Display Of Governance?

Tue Jan 01, 2013 3:11 pm

To make the whole 'fiscal cliff' mess even worse, was the deal passed by the Senate in the wee hours and subject to the Constitutionally required vote by the House next Tuesday.

Basically it kills off the 'Bush' tax rates as to those making $400K single/$450 couple/family, keeping it for those with incomes below those levels. It keeps and 'fixes' the income level where the Alternative Minimum Tax kicks in. It holds off a return of Estate taxes on some high income persons and some other minor tax adjustments. It also keeps federal funding of extended unemployment benefits and holds off any cuts in spending or entitlements for the next two months or so. It does appear that the Social Security/Medicare taxes will return to their standard levels.

Even if the House passes this stinker of a package, it means at least 60 more days of political mud-fighting over spending cuts and adjustments no one wants but we need to reduce our deficits, does nothing about our huge infrastructure needs, nothing about fixing our huge financial problems and indeed may spin another recession. It will also meen massive special interests pressures and continues our embarrassing ability of our elected officials to run our country.
 
NoUFO
Posts: 7397
Joined: Tue Apr 17, 2001 7:40 am

RE: The Most Embarrassing Display Of Governance?

Tue Jan 01, 2013 3:19 pm

The most embarrassing display of governance ever took place in Germany between 1933 and 1945. So there.

As for the USA, I think the syphilis experiments on African Americans and Guatemaltecans, both run by the U.S. Public Health Service, was most embarassing.

In 1946, American judges ran the Doctors' Trial, also known as the "Subsequent Nuremberg Trials", sentencing 20 physicians who were accused of having been involved in Nazi human experimentation to long term imprisonments or even death. No objections here, although I do oppose the death penalty - I always do. But at the same time, the U.S. Health Service kills unwitting people under the guise of public health.
Those responsible were never brought to justice but decorated.
I support the right to arm bears
 
MD11Engineer
Posts: 13916
Joined: Sun Oct 26, 2003 5:25 am

RE: The Most Embarrassing Display Of Governance?

Tue Jan 01, 2013 4:10 pm

Quoting connies4ever (Reply 16):
I thought under the Geneva Convention that POWs could not be forced to work)

POWs can´t be used to carry out military related work, like building defences (e.g. digging trenches), but they (at least the enlisted men and NCOs) can be used for other work. Officers have to volunteer.
But in most cases POWs are so bored in their camps that they´ll do any work just to get out of camp and have a change for a while.
The way the Danes and French used German POWs for clearing unexploded ammunition and minefields would be marginal I think.

Jan
Je Suis Charlie et je suis Ahmet aussi
 
seb146
Posts: 14050
Joined: Wed Dec 01, 1999 7:19 am

RE: The Most Embarrassing Display Of Governance?

Tue Jan 01, 2013 4:41 pm

Quoting connies4ever (Reply 16):
Not sure about kidnapping,

The town where I grew up (Pendleton, Oregon) had a large Chinese population in the early 1900s partly because of the railroad. They built an underground city because the law in the county at the time was any "Chinaman" seen on the street after dark could be shot on sight. Many of the Chinese told stories of being offered huge sums of money to work in America but were simply not paid when they got here. Others were given alcohol or opium until they passed out. When they came to, they were on a ship headed east. This is one possible source for the term "getting Shanghai'd".
Patriotic and Proud Liberal
 
connies4ever
Posts: 3393
Joined: Sat Feb 25, 2006 10:54 pm

RE: The Most Embarrassing Display Of Governance?

Tue Jan 01, 2013 9:17 pm

Quoting NoUFO (Reply 20):
As for the USA, I think the syphilis experiments on African Americans and Guatemaltecans, both run by the U.S. Public Health Service, was most embarassing.

I had thought the Guatemala syphilis work was a CIA initiative. But of course I could be wrong about that. Maybe I'm confusing the syphilis thing with the counter-insurgency war. Hmmm...

Quoting seb146 (Reply 22):
The town where I grew up (Pendleton, Oregon) had a large Chinese population in the early 1900s partly because of the railroad. They built an underground city because the law in the county at the time was any "Chinaman" seen on the street after dark could be shot on sight. Many of the Chinese told stories of being offered huge sums of money to work in America but were simply not paid when they got here. Others were given alcohol or opium until they passed out. When they came to, they were on a ship headed east. This is one possible source for the term "getting Shanghai'd".

Shooting after dark ? Wow, seems extreme, but racism leads to those sorts of policies. Here in Canada we had a head tax for every Asian immigrant for a long time, and for the most part they were denied the vote for a very long time. There were several race riots in Vancouver over Chinese immigrants:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Vancouver_anti-Chinese_riots,_1886

http://www.bclearningnetwork.com/LOR...a/Immigration/anti_asian_riots.pdf

Also one involving Japanese immigrants but having a harder time finding a reference.
Nostalgia isn't what it used to be.
 
CometII
Topic Author
Posts: 291
Joined: Tue Dec 28, 1999 6:02 am

RE: The Most Embarrassing Display Of Governance?

Tue Jan 01, 2013 9:50 pm

Quoting NoUFO (Reply 20):
The most embarrassing display of governance ever took place in Germany between 1933 and 1945. So there.

Well, I made it clear in the OP that periods of military dictatorship don't really count. Not because they are not as bad, on the contrary because it is outside basic democratic values.

So of course things like that, or slavery, are far worse and self-understood. I meant things in the history of democratic Germany, in your case, that were done by freely elected politicians that indicated a complete failure of good governance.

I had forgotten about the internment camps in the USA. Yes, that ranks right at the top, along with Jim Crow.
 
User avatar
Dreadnought
Posts: 9841
Joined: Tue Feb 19, 2008 6:31 pm

RE: The Most Embarrassing Display Of Governance?

Tue Jan 01, 2013 11:59 pm

Quoting CometII (Thread starter):
So the question is, what to you qualifies as the most embarrassing and pointless moment in government?

Let's see...

Congress controls the purse strings. They, through direct mismanagement or abrogation of their responsibilities (eg. not passing budgets the last few years) have caused the mess we are in now, and Obama has the unmitigated gall to authorize a pay increase for them!

Talk about a government completely out of touch with reality!
Forget dogs and cats - Spay and neuter your liberals.
 
N867DA
Posts: 935
Joined: Thu May 15, 2008 12:53 am

RE: The Most Embarrassing Display Of Governance?

Wed Jan 02, 2013 12:48 am

I would include the McCarthy-era witch hunts of the 1950s on any list. Communism was a threat to the United States, but creating blacklists for actors and ruining lives on suspicion of political activity is what's really un-American--not the House Un-American Activities Committee.
A nation turns its lonely eyes to you
 
User avatar
pu
Posts: 1359
Joined: Sat Dec 03, 2011 1:08 am

RE: The Most Embarrassing Display Of Governance?

Wed Jan 02, 2013 2:15 am

The US Congress is 100% political theater and their only calculations are how what they do impacts the next election - the best interest of the country often doesn't fit into -2, -4, or -6 year timespan nor into the amount of time most people have to give serious thought to serious issues. I've heard of many Republicans hoping to vote in such a way that makes the country feel pain so they can blame the Democrats and win an election.


So the biggest embarrassment is the process. Oh, yeah, and the way OBL managed to spin a superpower off course for more than a decade in painful self-destructive pursuits of the wrong enemy overseas while simultaneously helping the wrong "friends" at home...a lost decade at the hands of bad government.


Pu
 
FlyDeltaJets
Posts: 1631
Joined: Thu Feb 02, 2006 4:24 pm

RE: The Most Embarrassing Display Of Governance?

Wed Jan 02, 2013 4:11 am

Breaking news, the house passed a bill that would extend the deadline on the seuqestration for a few months and raise taxes on income over 400k.
The only valid opinions are those based in facts
 
Mir
Posts: 19107
Joined: Mon Jan 05, 2004 3:55 am

RE: The Most Embarrassing Display Of Governance?

Wed Jan 02, 2013 4:20 am

Quoting FlyDeltaJets (Reply 28):
Breaking news, the house passed a bill that would extend the deadline on the seuqestration for a few months

What an embarrassment. We knew this deadline was coming for more than a year - it should not have taken this long to figure out that the best thing to do was to put the deadline off a little longer. Congress (both parties) should be ashamed of themselves.

If I were Obama, I'd use my statement tonight to explain that while it's good that Congress was able to get at least something done tonight, I'm still incredibly disappointed that this is still not figured out, and to announce that I'll be sending Joe Biden to start negotiating a full and permanent solution starting as soon as the next Congress goes into session. Waiting until March is just not an option.

-Mir
7 billion, one nation, imagination...it's a beautiful day
 
cptkrell
Posts: 3186
Joined: Sun Sep 23, 2001 10:50 pm

RE: The Most Embarrassing Display Of Governance?

Wed Jan 02, 2013 4:21 am

...and the president just signed it...regards...jack
all best; jack
 
AR385
Posts: 6742
Joined: Fri Nov 07, 2003 8:25 am

RE: The Most Embarrassing Display Of Governance?

Wed Jan 02, 2013 4:29 am

When Mexico City passed the law that essentially legalized abortions, the states governed by the right wing party PAN passed draconian laws, making it more illegal than ever. Even on rape, or when the mother´s health was at risk. Laws not so dissimilar from Europe in the 1300s.

They tried the same thing when Mexico City legalized Gay Marriage, but they were prevented of doing the same.

Another example.

In the 90s, our Federal deputies had the brilliant idea that "Indigenous people´s" mores and customs ought to be given special recognition. What that means? In certain regions of the country, nowadays families can sell an extra child they have, usually a girl, to whomever. Or, a woman will never be allowed to hold public office. Sometime I wonder if they will ever bring back human sacrificies.
 
seb146
Posts: 14050
Joined: Wed Dec 01, 1999 7:19 am

RE: The Most Embarrassing Display Of Governance?

Wed Jan 02, 2013 5:07 am

Quoting cptkrell (Reply 30):
and the president just signed it

And, if he had done nothing or vetoed the measure, people would be complaining. This, or any, president with a (D) after his/her name can not win for losing. Absolutly anything any president with a (D) behind his/her name will never ever get any support from the right-wing or right-wing media, who, in reality, control everything. The rest of us who research, read, and think are evil and hate America, according to them.
Patriotic and Proud Liberal
 
Superfly
Posts: 37735
Joined: Thu May 11, 2000 8:01 am

RE: The Most Embarrassing Display Of Governance?

Wed Jan 02, 2013 5:11 am

George W Bush starting a war with Iraq and having support from both parties.
The witch hunt against Bill Clinton over the Monica Lewinsky ordeal.
The Clarence Thomas / Anita Hill circus.
Bring back the Concorde
 
seb146
Posts: 14050
Joined: Wed Dec 01, 1999 7:19 am

RE: The Most Embarrassing Display Of Governance?

Wed Jan 02, 2013 5:47 am

Quoting Superfly (Reply 33):
George W Bush starting a war with Iraq and having support from both parties.

With misleading intel.

But, don't worry about that.
Patriotic and Proud Liberal
 
Pyrex
Posts: 4051
Joined: Thu Aug 25, 2005 7:24 am

RE: The Most Embarrassing Display Of Governance?

Wed Jan 02, 2013 5:55 am

Quoting DocLightning (Reply 6):
There were and continue to be some serious questions about Mr. Thomas's professional behavior

Yes, he stepped off the plantation, correct?

I would have to say that, in the U.S., the most embarrassing display of governance has got to be the whole FDR years. From sending people to jail for dry-cleaning shirts 5 cents cheaper than their competitors, and other similar economic non-sense, to stealing all the gold in private hands, to unashamedly using the FBI and IRS to target political enemies and flagrantly using "stimulus" money to buy off votes, the list of embarrassing / borderline criminal displays of governance is almost endless.
Read this very carefully, I shall write this only once!
 
doug_or
Posts: 3125
Joined: Sat Mar 18, 2000 9:55 am

RE: The Most Embarrassing Display Of Governance?

Wed Jan 02, 2013 6:03 am

Quoting cptkrell (Reply 5):
BTW, who invented the term "fiscal cliff"? Was it the politicians or the media? Can't remember when I started hearing it. Regards...jack

I believe it was actually Chairmen Bernanke. If not him I'm 99% sure it was an appointed official.
When in doubt, one B pump off
 
Ken777
Posts: 9061
Joined: Thu Mar 11, 2004 5:39 am

RE: The Most Embarrassing Display Of Governance?

Wed Jan 02, 2013 6:25 am

Quoting zckls04 (Reply 2):
I've thought about many different failures, but I can't think of anything more embarrassing than what's going on right now.

There have been a few to say the least.

I thought about blow jobs in the White House

But, sadly the greatest embarrassment for me was the invasion of Iraq to get the WMD's that were not there,

followed by the total incompetence of managing the country.

10 years and tens of thousands of purple hearts awarded. How can you not be embarrassed at the government?
 
User avatar
DocLightning
Posts: 19820
Joined: Wed Nov 16, 2005 8:51 am

RE: The Most Embarrassing Display Of Governance?

Wed Jan 02, 2013 6:38 am

Quoting Pyrex (Reply 35):
Yes, he stepped off the plantation, correct?

You know, it's funny that I'm OK with Mr. Obama but apparently I dislike Mr. Thomas because he's Black.

I dislike Mr. Thomas because he has a deep disdain for his fellow Americans and believes that the legal system should be used to suppress civil rights. By his own legal reasoning, the same Civil Rights Act of 1963 that the SCOTUS of the day upheld shouldn't have been upheld. And without that very act he could not be on the Supreme Court. So if it is about race, then it's about the fact that Mr. Thomas seems to have an attitude of "I've got mine." That's not an attitude that I find to be in any way, shape, or form compatible with civilized society.

He also does not believe that the Constitution guarantees a right to privacy and has ruled consistent with that view. I find that very alarming in a SCOTUS Justice.

There are also a number of women (perhaps not binders, though) who have suggested that his behavior in the workplace towards them has been unprofessional at the very least. None of this could be proved, but then again, we're not talking about a criminal case and the standard of "beyond a reasonable doubt" does not apply.
-Doc Lightning-

"The sky calls to us. If we do not destroy ourselves, we will one day venture to the stars."
-Carl Sagan
 
Pyrex
Posts: 4051
Joined: Thu Aug 25, 2005 7:24 am

RE: The Most Embarrassing Display Of Governance?

Wed Jan 02, 2013 1:14 pm

Quoting DocLightning (Reply 38):
You know, it's funny that I'm OK with Mr. Obama but apparently I dislike Mr. Thomas

Exactly. Mr. Obama knows his place, is no Uncle Tom.
Read this very carefully, I shall write this only once!
 
User avatar
Dreadnought
Posts: 9841
Joined: Tue Feb 19, 2008 6:31 pm

RE: The Most Embarrassing Display Of Governance?

Wed Jan 02, 2013 2:48 pm

Quoting DocLightning (Reply 38):
I dislike Mr. Thomas because he has a deep disdain for his fellow Americans and believes that the legal system should be used to suppress civil rights.

That's like someone saying that "Obama believes in communism". You need to back that up. Where did Mr. Thomas say that "the legal system should be used to suppress civil rights"?

Or is it a more precise way to put it that your idea of civil rights does not coincide with yours?
Forget dogs and cats - Spay and neuter your liberals.
 
User avatar
DocLightning
Posts: 19820
Joined: Wed Nov 16, 2005 8:51 am

RE: The Most Embarrassing Display Of Governance?

Wed Jan 02, 2013 9:34 pm

Quoting Dreadnought (Reply 40):
Or is it a more precise way to put it that your idea of civil rights does not coincide with yours?

His idea of civil rights is that he personally should not have any, so his idea of civil rights disagrees with his. How do you think he would have ruled on the Civil Rights Act? Skin color aside, he would have voted no.
-Doc Lightning-

"The sky calls to us. If we do not destroy ourselves, we will one day venture to the stars."
-Carl Sagan
 
User avatar
Dreadnought
Posts: 9841
Joined: Tue Feb 19, 2008 6:31 pm

RE: The Most Embarrassing Display Of Governance?

Wed Jan 02, 2013 10:07 pm

Quoting DocLightning (Reply 41):
His idea of civil rights is that he personally should not have any, so his idea of civil rights disagrees with his.

Tell me what he said, not your paraphrasing of it, which is clearly one-sided. And don't give me Chirs Matthews' paraphrasing either.

I want to know exactly what Thomas has said to offend you so much. Here is an aide-memoire:

http://www.ontheissues.org/Court/Clarence_Thomas_Civil_Rights.htm
Forget dogs and cats - Spay and neuter your liberals.
 
WestJet747
Posts: 1950
Joined: Sat Aug 06, 2011 7:43 pm

RE: The Most Embarrassing Display Of Governance?

Wed Jan 02, 2013 10:48 pm

Quoting connies4ever (Reply 23):
Also one involving Japanese immigrants but having a harder time finding a reference.

I believe the 1907 riot you link is actually the same one you're thinking of.

Quoting Superfly (Reply 33):
The witch hunt against Bill Clinton over the Monica Lewinsky ordeal.

I agree with you there that it's a pretty bad one, although I don't see it as the most embarrassing because I can sympathize with the other side of the argument (whether I agree or not).

Quoting Dreadnought (Reply 42):
Tell me what he said, not your paraphrasing of it, which is clearly one-sided. And don't give me Chirs Matthews' paraphrasing either.

I want to know exactly what Thomas has said to offend you so much. Here is an aide-memoire:

http://www.ontheissues.org/Court/Cla...s.htm

From your source:

"Coloradans entitled to be hostile toward homosexual conduct"
"Sodomy laws are uncommonly silly but states can enforce them"
"State laws should not protect gay rights"
"Boy Scouts may exclude gay scoutmasters"


Still not sure why Doc is offended? (Hint: Thomas has a track-record of anti-gay sentiment)

But I'll admit, apart from his obvious belief that gays don't deserve the same rights as straights, I agree with just about all his other decisions.
Flying refined.
 
User avatar
DocLightning
Posts: 19820
Joined: Wed Nov 16, 2005 8:51 am

RE: The Most Embarrassing Display Of Governance?

Thu Jan 03, 2013 6:10 am

Quoting WestJet747 (Reply 43):
Still not sure why Doc is offended? (Hint: Thomas has a track-record of anti-gay sentiment)

But I'll admit, apart from his obvious belief that gays don't deserve the same rights as straights, I agree with just about all his other decisions.

The anti-gay sentiment is part of it. He's also anti-woman and anti-Black and anti-minority in general, in spite of the fact that he himself has benefited from Supreme Court decisions he never would have supported had he been there.

His strict "Originalism" is irreconcilable with the Civil Rights Act.
-Doc Lightning-

"The sky calls to us. If we do not destroy ourselves, we will one day venture to the stars."
-Carl Sagan
 
cws818
Posts: 824
Joined: Sat Aug 30, 2008 7:42 am

RE: The Most Embarrassing Display Of Governance?

Sat Jan 05, 2013 8:00 am

Quoting Pyrex (Reply 35):
I would have to say that, in the U.S., the most embarrassing display of governance has got to be the whole FDR years.

You would be incorrect, once again.

Quoting Pyrex (Reply 39):
Quoting DocLightning (Reply 38):
You know, it's funny that I'm OK with Mr. Obama but apparently I dislike Mr. Thomas

Exactly. Mr. Obama knows his place, is no Uncle Tom.

Exactly. Your hyperbole is often offensive and, in this case, is completely off the mark. Please do explain what in the world you are on about.
volgende halte...Station Hollands Spoor
 
Superfly
Posts: 37735
Joined: Thu May 11, 2000 8:01 am

RE: The Most Embarrassing Display Of Governance?

Sat Jan 05, 2013 7:14 pm

Quoting cws818 (Reply 45):



Actually Pyrex raised some good points that are correct.
Franklin Delano Roosevelt may have passed some good programs and policies that we benefit from today and led us through World War II but he is far from the saint some make him out to be.
Sending people to jail for dry-cleaning shirts 5 cents cheaper than their competitors as well as stealing all the gold in private hands, to unashamedly using the FBI and IRS to target political enemies and flagrantly using "stimulus" money to buy off votes DID in fact happen.
On top of that, FDR refused to support the Republicans anti-lynching legislation even though he gave lip service against it. He also implicitly allowed New Deal programs to be structured in ways that refrained from challenging racist employment practices in the South - again, because he was courting the favor of Southern Democrats.
FDR also opposed integration of the armed forces.
Despite all the myths about Adolf Hitler snubbing American gold medalist Jesse Owens at the 1936 Olympics (which never happened), it was President Roosevelt that DID in fact snub Jesse Owens, not Adolf Hitler.
Roosevelt refused to acknowledge or even take a photo with Jesse Owens or any of the Blacks that competed in the Olympics. FDR refused to have pictures taken with blacks.
FDR sent Japanese Americans to internment camps, a conservative newspaper chain denounced this violation of civil rights, as did the influential black conservative George Schuyler.
When Franklin D. Roosevelt had his first opportunity to name a member of the Supreme Court, he appointed a life member of the Ku Klux Klan, Sen. Hugo Black, Democrat of Alabama. In 1944, FDR chose as his vice president Harry Truman, who had joined the Ku Klux Klan in Kansas City in 1922.
Many 'historians' and academics like to ignore this side of the Roosevelt Presidency.
Not exactly sure what Pyrex said that could be considered "incorrect", "hyperbole" or "offensive".
Bring back the Concorde
 
Pyrex
Posts: 4051
Joined: Thu Aug 25, 2005 7:24 am

RE: The Most Embarrassing Display Of Governance?

Sat Jan 05, 2013 7:18 pm

Quoting cws818 (Reply 45):
You would be incorrect, once again.

Oh, really? So would you please care to elaborate what exactly of the below is wrong / he did not do?

Quoting Pyrex (Reply 35):
sending people to jail for dry-cleaning shirts 5 cents cheaper than their competitors, and other similar economic non-sense, to stealing all the gold in private hands, to unashamedly using the FBI and IRS to target political enemies and flagrantly using "stimulus" money to buy off votes

Were these events not, if classified today

Quoting Pyrex (Reply 35):
embarrassing / borderline criminal

?

Quoting cws818 (Reply 45):
Please do explain what in the world you are on about.
www.google.com

Or maybe you watch ESPN so "Cornball brother" is a term you are more familiar with.
Read this very carefully, I shall write this only once!
 
WestJet747
Posts: 1950
Joined: Sat Aug 06, 2011 7:43 pm

RE: The Most Embarrassing Display Of Governance?

Sat Jan 05, 2013 9:33 pm

Quoting DocLightning (Reply 44):
anti-Black and anti-minority

My interpretation of his decisions and comments on black/minority issues is that he holds the belief that they should do more to help themselves. I don't consider that to be "anti-" anything, other than anti-handouts.
Flying refined.
 
Ken777
Posts: 9061
Joined: Thu Mar 11, 2004 5:39 am

RE: The Most Embarrassing Display Of Governance?

Sun Jan 06, 2013 1:54 am

Quoting WestJet747 (Reply 43):
But I'll admit, apart from his obvious belief that gays don't deserve the same rights as straights, I agree with just about all his other decisions.

As soon as he comes out as anti-gay I reaffirm my believe that someone else would have been a better choice.

Maybe it is because of the man he replaced on the Court, but he does look like a pretty small man compared to the giants that have been on the court.

Who is online

Users browsing this forum: planeb123, zckls04 and 18 guests