kaitak
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New Scandal In Ireland: Magdalene Laundries

Tue Feb 05, 2013 8:36 pm

Today, a major - and long awaited - report was published in Ireland, relating to the notorious "Magdalene laundries", through which over 30,000 women passed over a period of several decades, until the mid-1990s.

In most, but not all, cases, these women were unmarried mothers committed to the institutions against their will, due to pregnancy outside of wedlock. Although they were citizens of the state and had rights under the constitution, these rights were ignored; they were held for an unlimited and undefined period, often for many, many years, treated effectively as slaves - hard work and no pay (apart from bed and board - which they'd have got in a prison, had they been there). They had committed no crime, yet the state colluded with the Catholic Church in imprisoning them; today's report, by Senator Martin McAleese (husband of former president, Mary) explored the extent of this collusion.

It found that at all levels - in the courts, the gardai (Irish police) and at a political level, there was collusion, although in some cases that was reluctant; the Church was extremely (and excessively) powerful in Ireland at that time and standing up to the Church would have meant career suicide. The gardai were involved in forcibly moving women to these institutions, although in some cases, they turned a blind eye and allowed them to move to the UK. The women were not allowed to leave (it was effectively a prison) and they were often physically or even sexually abused.

It was a very dark period in Irish history and of course, it comes on top of a series of investigations into child sexual abuse by the clergy, over the past few years. There was a culture, exemplified by a former prime minister, John A Costello, who described himself as "a Catholic first and an Irishman second"; i.e. they would always defer to the Church which gave the Church enormous power. Pregnancy and childbirth out of wedlock was a massive social stigma (as it was in many other countries). One of the institutions issued a statement today acknowledging "limitations of care" ...

http://www.breakingnews.ie/ireland/r...vide-care-in-laundries-583752.html

The government, no doubt conscious of the huge cost of reparations, has been equivocal about making a full apology, the state of our national finances obviously being a concern, though it is clear that these women deserve compensation for their ordeal and the destruction of their lives.

It comes at an awkward time for the Church, which has taken a predictably hard line in relation to imminent legislation on abortion; it will be very interesting to see how this report affects the forcefulness with which it presses its opposition to abortion legislation.
 
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OA260
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RE: New Scandal In Ireland: Magdalene Laundries

Tue Feb 05, 2013 9:20 pm

Quoting kaitak (Thread starter):

It found that at all levels - in the courts, the gardai (Irish police) and at a political level, there was collusion, although in some cases that was reluctant; the Church was extremely (and excessively) powerful in Ireland at that time and standing up to the Church would have meant career suicide.

And that's the key . The Irish state failed them. For those alive they should indeed be compensated maybe a cut off or set amount. For those who are sadly not alive anymore then their loved ones should get an official letter of appology and a state arranged day of remberence for all of them. I dont think the state should go as far as compensating relatives , I know its a tricky view but the line has to be drawn somewhere.

It is good though that in the last number of years Ireland has faced up to its past and the Catholic church has a lot to answer for the evil inflicted on the victims.

I remember seeing the movie based on the true story. It was indeed terrible.

http://youtu.be/Hga3kqwuBSc
 
AR385
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RE: New Scandal In Ireland: Magdalene Laundries

Tue Feb 05, 2013 9:25 pm

Quoting OA260 (Reply 1):
The Irish state failed them. For those alive they should indeed be compensated maybe a cut off or set amount. For those who are sadly not alive anymore then their loved ones should get an official letter of appology and a state arranged day of remberence for all of them.

Sure, I agree with you (speaking from someone who lives in a country where the Catholic church used to be very powerful) but should the Catholic church get off scot free? They should be held as accountable as the Irish government.
 
wingman
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RE: New Scandal In Ireland: Magdalene Laundries

Tue Feb 05, 2013 9:36 pm

Organized religion is uniformly depraved and the Catholic Church is among the most criminal of religious institutions. How anyone could walk the streets of The Vatican and not come away understanding that the entire concept was the original Mafia scheme is beyond me.

Let Spain show you guys the way...by the time I left there in 1991 a solid majority has smelled the truth, and now very few have anything to do with the church there. Of everything Lennon wished for, a world without religion would the one thing to bring a bit of peace.
 
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OA260
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RE: New Scandal In Ireland: Magdalene Laundries

Tue Feb 05, 2013 10:10 pm

Quoting AR385 (Reply 2):
Sure, I agree with you (speaking from someone who lives in a country where the Catholic church used to be very powerful) but should the Catholic church get off scot free? They should be held as accountable as the Irish government.

Oh yes of course I do think they should pay up but maybe let the government claim it from them. Maybe charge the Catholic church in Ireland with a ''abuse tax'' where every few hundred thousand they get they have to pay into a fund that compensates victims maybe 25% of profits. The people of Ireland are being screwed with new taxes at the moment so another tax which is actually justified would go down well amongst the majority here.

Quoting wingman (Reply 3):
Let Spain show you guys the way...by the time I left there in 1991 a solid majority has smelled the truth, and now very few have anything to do with the church there.

Really I thought Spain was still quite a religious country ?

I do have to also mention that here in Ireland there were plenty of decent individuals who were Priests and Nunns and they were good people. Its not fair to paint them with the same brush either. There is however way too much evil in the Catholic church even today though. Then again that applies to all religions.
 
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Tugger
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RE: New Scandal In Ireland: Magdalene Laundries

Tue Feb 05, 2013 10:19 pm

Quoting OA260 (Reply 4):
There is however way too much evil in the Catholic church even today though. Then again that applies to all religions.

The weird and sad thing is that the reason there is such evil is because the church and religion in general must appear to be "perfect" and "all good" to perpetrate that they have "a better way". A better way than just being human and being good to one another. But of course religion is not perfect nor does it make one good or particularly better, religion is the penultimate (look it up) in human expression.

So religion must put on a charade and pretend to be "good" and "perfect" and when you must fake it that much and do that much lying all the time it becomes easy to just keep lying and covering up the real problems and evils that occur.

Of course here you also has the State being complicit in this tragedy and corrupt in it duty to serve the public.

All evil needs is for good people to do nothing. (And it becomes even worse when people help it out...)

Tugg

[Edited 2013-02-05 14:23:47]
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Braybuddy
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RE: New Scandal In Ireland: Magdalene Laundries

Tue Feb 05, 2013 11:23 pm

Quoting kaitak (Thread starter):
It comes at an awkward time for the Church, which has taken a predictably hard line in relation to imminent legislation on abortion; it will be very interesting to see how this report affects the forcefulness with which it presses its opposition to abortion legislation

And you know what? It will affect their attitude not one iota. Their standing in the eyes of the public has been shredded over the horrific way they have raped, tortured and enslaved children over the years, yet they still have the brass neck to spout their "pro-life" rhetoric, which, in reality, is nothing more than a "pro-birth" ethos.
 
gabrielchew
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RE: New Scandal In Ireland: Magdalene Laundries

Tue Feb 05, 2013 11:32 pm

Quoting OA260 (Reply 4):
Oh yes of course I do think they should pay up but maybe let the government claim it from them. Maybe charge the Catholic church in Ireland with a ''abuse tax'' where every few hundred thousand they get they have to pay into a fund that compensates victims maybe 25% of profits. The people of Ireland are being screwed with new taxes at the moment so another tax which is actually justified would go down well amongst the majority here.

The Church should definately pay for it, as well as the Irish State. 50:50.

Quoting OA260 (Reply 4):
There is however way too much evil in the Catholic church even today though.

Indeed. What good has ever come from the Catholics (or any religion)? War, suffering, suicide bombers, the holocaust, social stigma, divided communites, Easter egg hunts* etc etc etc. The sooner people stop believeing in such ridiculousness, the better the world will be for it. Although, I'm sure us humans can come up with other good reasons for being complete di@kheads, even without religion.

*Yes, that was a joke   So some good things have come out of it, but that is mainly for commerical reasons.
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Aesma
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RE: New Scandal In Ireland: Magdalene Laundries

Tue Feb 05, 2013 11:41 pm

Quoting OA260 (Reply 4):
there were plenty of decent individuals who were Priests and Nunns and they were good people. Its not fair to paint them with the same brush either.
Quoting tugger (Reply 5):
All evil needs is for good people to do nothing.

Enough said.
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Toulouse
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RE: New Scandal In Ireland: Magdalene Laundries

Wed Feb 06, 2013 3:44 pm

Quoting OA260 (Reply 4):
Really I thought Spain was still quite a religious country ?

Completely is Philip (btw, how are you?). As soon as you leave certain areas of the big cities of Madrid or Barcelona, or the touristy coastal areas, Spain in general remains a highly religious and conservative place.
Long live Aer Lingus!
 
wingman
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RE: New Scandal In Ireland: Magdalene Laundries

Wed Feb 06, 2013 7:02 pm

Spain is 21% vs 46% for Ireland and 43% for the US. From recollection it was possibly triple that only 30 years ago. The church in Spain also had very strong ties to Franco which didn't help its popularity after he died. Ask most people under 40 and I'd wager less than 10% have been in the past ten years.
 
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falstaff
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RE: New Scandal In Ireland: Magdalene Laundries

Wed Feb 06, 2013 7:16 pm

Quoting wingman (Reply 3):
the Catholic Church is among the most criminal of religious institutions. How anyone could walk the streets of The Vatican and not come away understanding that the entire concept was the original Mafia scheme is beyond me.

I never thought of it is as the mafia, but just a continuation of the Roman empire. Of course being a practicing Anglo-Catholic (Episcopalian) I was never really that interested in what Rome had to say.

Quoting gabrielchew (Reply 7):
I'm sure us humans can come up with other good reasons for being complete di@kheads, even without religion.

They already have. The environmental wackos, the anti tobacco wackos, and the animal rights wackos to name a few..

This is a new scandal? I thought this had been out for years. I watched a TV program about in the UK a couple of years ago. I remember reading about it in the Yorkshire Post too.

Quoting Toulouse (Reply 9):
As soon as you leave certain areas of the big cities of Madrid or Barcelona, or the touristy coastal areas, Spain in general remains a highly religious and conservative place.

Much like a lot of other parts of the world.
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Toulouse
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RE: New Scandal In Ireland: Magdalene Laundries

Wed Feb 06, 2013 8:47 pm

Quoting falstaff (Reply 11):
Much like a lot of other parts of the world.

Very true indeed.
Long live Aer Lingus!
 
ltbewr
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RE: New Scandal In Ireland: Magdalene Laundries

Thu Feb 07, 2013 2:17 am

I bet the children these enslaved women had ' in sin' were sold for donations to and the income from the laundry went to the church and the order. One has to wonder that as the Republic of Ireland became a part of the EC in I believe in the late 1970's, how they could have continued into the 1990's with this practice. Probably the Church offered a way to provide a service to these women the government couldn't afford or wouldn't provide for.
Perhaps these enslaved women, some of them probably mentally ill or of limited mental development, need to bring human right charges vs the Roman Catholic Church in the EC courts. Perhaps too, the RCC needs to lose parts of it's tax-free status and give up large landholdings to the state of Ireland for their raping priests and not this enslavement of humans. No wonder the RCC is losing membership in the world, especially with young people.

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