EY460
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Two Accidents To Cruise Ships Today

Sun Feb 10, 2013 11:21 pm

Not a good day for the cruise industry.

First, a lifeboat fell from Thompson Majestic during a safety drill in the Canary Islands. Five crew members are dead and three injured.

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/travel/cr...cruise-ship-in-Canary-Islands.html

Second, a fire broke out in the engine room of the Carnival Triumph. There are no injuries and the fire is out but the ship is disabled and adrift in the Gulf of Mexico.

http://maritimematters.com/2013/02/c...-triumph-engine-room-fire-quelled/
 
PHX787
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RE: Two Accidents To Cruise Ships Today

Mon Feb 11, 2013 12:30 am

Quoting EY460 (Thread starter):
Carnival Triumph

I can't seem to find it on the maritime tracker website....
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DocLightning
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RE: Two Accidents To Cruise Ships Today

Mon Feb 11, 2013 12:35 am

Quoting EY460 (Thread starter):
Second, a fire broke out in the engine room of the Carnival Triumph. There are no injuries and the fire is out but the ship is disabled and adrift in the Gulf of Mexico.

This seems to happen relatively often. It always surprises me that they don't have a backup turbine generator to supply hotel load at least.

Quoting EY460 (Thread starter):
First, a lifeboat fell from Thompson Majestic during a safety drill in the Canary Islands. Five crew members are dead and three injured.

That is very sad. RIP.
-Doc Lightning-

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Okie
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RE: Two Accidents To Cruise Ships Today

Mon Feb 11, 2013 1:33 am

Quoting DocLightning (Reply 2):
This seems to happen relatively often. It always surprises me that they don't have a backup turbine generator to supply hotel load at least.

The problem with shipboard electrical systems is that the distribution systems are adjacent or close proximity to the all the mechanical gear located in the equipment room.
It does not take much of a fire in an enclosed area to produce enough heat to melt the insulation on the wiring providing a short circuits or damaging the distribution gear as well as the control wiring, gaskets on the engine, fuel lines etc for the engine/alternator itself.

I would suspect that there is a separate Emergency alternator located elsewhere in the ship to provide Emergency Lighting and power for ships radios and navigation equipment. They still have deal with getting fuel from the ships tanks to a day tank but I suspect that was taken care of in the ships design.

Sorry Doc, no Air Conditioning.

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Ken777
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RE: Two Accidents To Cruise Ships Today

Mon Feb 11, 2013 2:00 am

Saddened by the loss of life in the accident and hope the problem can be clearly identified to avoid it happening again. Like aircraft accidents there is a need to learn the causes and to take action to avoid another accident. RIP

As for the fire on the Triumph, the automatic systems apparently worked. I don't know if there was simply too much damage too fast to avoid needing a tug, or if there was simply problems getting systems back on line. Regardless, I really appreciate those automatic systems - went through a few fires when I was in the Navy and we really could have used them on two major fires we had.
 
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RE: Two Accidents To Cruise Ships Today

Mon Feb 11, 2013 2:31 am

Quoting DocLightning (Reply 2):
This seems to happen relatively often. It always surprises me that they don't have a backup turbine generator to supply hotel load at least.

That's a good point; it was discussed on another thread that I was just reading through earlier today, and was in the process of doing some research online in order to create another thread about the topic. (which I still will)

Quoting EY460 (Thread starter):
First, a lifeboat fell from Thompson Majestic during a safety drill in the Canary Islands. Five crew members are dead and three injured.

I noticed this earlier in the day and wanted to read about it, but still haven't gotten around to it yet; without yet reading about what happened, I can only say this; lowering a life boat is a VERY routine, often practiced task, on ALL big vessels , whether it's a cruise ship, or whether it's a Naval vessel; the reason so many things like this keep happening is because so many people keep THINKING of them as being "accidents", and that "accidents" will always "happen"; this has been proven over many years NOT to be the case; they are NOT "accidents" at all; about 99% are "routine acts of carelessness, almost all of which didn't "just happen", they were CAUSED.......by carelessness and stupidity. (and almost ALL could have been PREVENTED had those responsible been better trained, more careful, and more responsible.

I would venture to guess that the inevitable investigation which will "look into" this tragic occurrence will most likely conclude that "it COULD have been prevented, had all involved been better trained, better prepared, and had better leadership. We'll see.

Charley
Stupidity: Doing the same thing over and over again and expecting a different result; Albert Einstein
 
Geezer
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RE: Two Accidents To Cruise Ships Today

Mon Feb 11, 2013 2:45 am

Well, after making a reply, I noticed the title of the thread.......both "accidents" ! Se what I mean ?

As long as "incidents" where people become fatalities keep being regarded as "accidents" ( which "just happen"), they are guaranteed to "keep right on happening";

Charley
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rwessel
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RE: Two Accidents To Cruise Ships Today

Mon Feb 11, 2013 4:46 am

Quoting DocLightning (Reply 2):
This seems to happen relatively often. It always surprises me that they don't have a backup turbine generator to supply hotel load at least.

There ought to be some emergency power to run some critical lighting and stuff.

But you have to remember that the hotel load on modern cruise ships exceeds the propulsion load. That's one reason many modern cruise ships have gone to electric azipods for propulsion - it's just one more load on the big electrical plant. And even then, they should be able get steerage out of the azipods on the emergency generators.
 
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DocLightning
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RE: Two Accidents To Cruise Ships Today

Mon Feb 11, 2013 6:44 am

Quoting rwessel (Reply 7):
But you have to remember that the hotel load on modern cruise ships exceeds the propulsion load. That's one reason many modern cruise ships have gone to electric azipods for propulsion - it's just one more load on the big electrical plant. And even then, they should be able get steerage out of the azipods on the emergency generators.

It's about 50/50. The electric azipods are used both for mechanical simplicity and also because it does make overall energy management simpler to run all loads from a single, engine-driven electric bus.
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bananaboy
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RE: Two Accidents To Cruise Ships Today

Mon Feb 11, 2013 10:29 am

Quoting EY460 (Thread starter):
Thompson Majestic

It's called the Thomson Majesty.

There's an article online with a photo showing a cable that has snapped. Could actions by the crew cause the cable to snap or would that generally only happen due to a failure of the material itself?

http://www.seanews.com.tr/article/ACCIDENTS/94671/

Mark
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OA260
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RE: Two Accidents To Cruise Ships Today

Mon Feb 11, 2013 11:50 am

Louis Lines .... say no more !

It was a decent ship in its day when it was with NCL.
 
Starbuk7
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RE: Two Accidents To Cruise Ships Today

Mon Feb 11, 2013 2:24 pm

If the fires are as common as some here say they are, why do they not use a better wire that the insulation has a higher melting point which might potentially prevent the power from going out in these situations?
 
windy95
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RE: Two Accidents To Cruise Ships Today

Mon Feb 11, 2013 4:12 pm

Carnival and it's subsidiary Costa sure have had there share of accident's and fires over the year's.
 
Okie
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RE: Two Accidents To Cruise Ships Today

Mon Feb 11, 2013 10:56 pm

Quoting starbuk7 (Reply 11):
If the fires are as common as some here say they are, why do they not use a better wire that the insulation has a higher melting point which might potentially prevent the power from going out in these situations?

Average temperature of burning paper/wood not counting an oil based compound as in fuel oil is quite high

900C or 1173K or 1650F depending on what scale you prefer.

Not much out there that would be feasible in application. Even the steel in the conduit would lose most of its strength and start to sag around 1000F not counting the copper conductor.

Just too far of a stretch for conventional materials.

Okie
 
AeroWesty
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RE: Two Accidents To Cruise Ships Today

Tue Feb 12, 2013 1:57 pm

Quoting EY460 (Thread starter):
Second, a fire broke out in the engine room of the Carnival Triumph. There are no injuries and the fire is out but the ship is disabled and adrift in the Gulf of Mexico.

I was watching the news this morning, and they're saying that the Triumph has drifted so far, it's now going to be towed to Mobile, AL.

Doesn't look like things are going well onboard: Foul conditions aboard stranded Carnival cruise ship Triumph: Passengers describe 'sewage running down the walls' and people acting like 'savages'
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RE: Two Accidents To Cruise Ships Today

Tue Feb 12, 2013 2:14 pm

Quoting AeroWesty (Reply 14):
I was watching the news this morning, and they're saying that the Triumph has drifted so far, it's now going to be towed to Mobile, AL.

Carnival never really handles these situations well. You would think that they would have plans in place for just this kind of event.
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AeroWesty
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RE: Two Accidents To Cruise Ships Today

Tue Feb 12, 2013 2:26 pm

Quoting luv2fly (Reply 15):
Carnival never really handles these situations well.

The irony of it all ... after all of the grief the passengers are enduring, only to have their final destination be Alabama! You can't make this stuff up.
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luv2fly
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RE: Two Accidents To Cruise Ships Today

Tue Feb 12, 2013 2:30 pm

Quoting AeroWesty (Reply 16):
The irony of it all ... after all of the grief the passengers are enduring, only to have their final destination be Alabama! You can't make this stuff up.




Best analogy EVER! What is sad is, that after this cruise Alabama is going to look nice.
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OA260
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RE: Two Accidents To Cruise Ships Today

Tue Feb 12, 2013 3:44 pm

Quoting luv2fly (Reply 17):
Best analogy EVER! What is sad is, that after this cruise Alabama is going to look nice.

Is Alabama that bad ?  
 
northstardc4m
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RE: Two Accidents To Cruise Ships Today

Tue Feb 12, 2013 3:54 pm

Quoting OA260 (Reply 18):
Is Alabama that bad ?  

Don't know about most of the state, but Mobile would fit the description...
  
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Okie
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RE: Two Accidents To Cruise Ships Today

Tue Feb 12, 2013 4:16 pm

"A Three Hour Tour" 
Quoting luv2fly (Reply 15):
Carnival never really handles these situations well. You would think that they would have plans in place for just this kind of event.

Well we are talking a cruise ship not AF 1 with a standby aircraft at hand at all times.

You are correct that it seems the cruise lines do not have at least some contingency plans to respond within 48 hours for a non-emergency. If they do, the plans do not seem apparent.

Quoting AeroWesty (Reply 16):
The irony of it all ... after all of the grief the passengers are enduring, only to have their final destination be Alabama! You can't make this stuff up.

I would guess Mobile is the only port in close proximity that would have large enough tugs to tow a cruise ship that are not already being utilized by the off shore oil industry.

I suspect if it were an emergency situation where loss of life was emanate then there would be a lot of vessels come to the assistance of the passengers.

Okie
 
slider
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RE: Two Accidents To Cruise Ships Today

Tue Feb 12, 2013 5:23 pm

Quoting NorthStarDC4M (Reply 19):
Don't know about most of the state, but Mobile would fit the description...

Mobile has a shipyard, a port, cruise terminal and the facilities and abilities to handle this, not to mention clearing them through customs.

It's a FAR better option than Progreso, which is an utter shithole.

Then Carnival STILL has to arrange for the logistics of getting 3100+ people to Galveston on top of that, with their bags and gear. This is a horrible scenario.

I'd never go on Carnival again--did it once, not my thing, but they have more than their share of events. It's one thing being stuck on a taxiway in weather on an aircraft, knowing it'll abate in a few hours, it's quite another to be stranded at sea and have a MUCH longer wait time to endure.
 
northstardc4m
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RE: Two Accidents To Cruise Ships Today

Tue Feb 12, 2013 5:48 pm

Quoting slider (Reply 21):
I'd never go on Carnival again--did it once, not my thing, but they have more than their share of events. It's one thing being stuck on a taxiway in weather on an aircraft, knowing it'll abate in a few hours, it's quite another to be stranded at sea and have a MUCH longer wait time to endure.

That's not just Carnival, that's any ship at sea. Yes Carnival has had it's issues but remember it's also on of the largest cruise line by far (30+ ships in service). I'm going on Carnival out of San Juan in May on the Valor... Not worried about it at all!
Those who would give up Essential Liberty to purchase a little Temporary Safety, deserve neither Liberty nor Safety.
 
rfields5421
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RE: Two Accidents To Cruise Ships Today

Tue Feb 12, 2013 6:24 pm

Quoting okie (Reply 20):
You are correct that it seems the cruise lines do not have at least some contingency plans to respond within 48 hours for a non-emergency. If they do, the plans do not seem apparent.

Carnival has diverted two other cruise ships to provide hot food and supplies for the damaged ship. Unfortunately the ability to move supplies over to the ship is realtively small, and subject to high risk sea surface transfers.

There are also at least one US Coast Guard ship standing by to assist if possible.

As for the delay in getting the ship under tow. Those type tugs aren't sitting around in huge numbers. And getting them to the stricken ship takes time. The tugs are not built for speed.

The reality is that ANY cruise ship becomes a pesthole if the ship loses power. Depending upon the location of the ship when it happens - it can be a long time to get the ship and passengers safely to shore.

I'd really hate to be on ANY cruise ship in the North Atlantic or trans-Pacific if this happened. The Queen Mary 2 wouldn't be much better.

The passengers are lucky that they are in a relatively calm Gulf of Mexico, hoping a storm front doesn't come through.

Quoting slider (Reply 21):
Then Carnival STILL has to arrange for the logistics of getting 3100+ people to Galveston on top of that, with their bags and gear. This is a horrible scenario.

I'm suspecting MOB is going to see it's biggest ever collection of wide-bodies moving the passengers to the Houston area.
 
Ken777
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RE: Two Accidents To Cruise Ships Today

Tue Feb 12, 2013 6:28 pm

It might be time for raising engineering standards on these ships. You really don't need fresh water for use in toilets - a fast filter to clear out debris (and small fish  Wow! ) would work when normal systems are out.

Same with some basic electrical systems.

The problem is that some of these basic backup systems need to be engineered into the ship before final plans are approved. IMO these core bask-up systems are just as important as the automatic fire fighting systems.
 
Starbuk7
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RE: Two Accidents To Cruise Ships Today

Tue Feb 12, 2013 7:36 pm

The U.S. Navy uses salt water in their toilets.

This is why I will never go on a cruise, did several of them on big Grey Boats that launch aircraft and going back out on another one is not for me.

I know everyone says that it is not the same, there is so much more to do and you are not working and etc etc, but look where they are now, stuck in the middle of the ocean. No Thanks
 
Ken777
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RE: Two Accidents To Cruise Ships Today

Tue Feb 12, 2013 8:00 pm

Quoting Ken777 (Reply 24):
there is so much more to do and you are not working and etc etc, but look where they are now, stuck in the middle of the ocean. No Thanks

Actually there are a lot of cruises that can be very enjoyable for those of us who used to polish brass, stand watches and then do a normal day's work. The key for us was the ports we would be going to. On our first cruise we left Rome, stopped in Genoa, Cannes, Ajaccio, Barcelona and back to Rome. Perfect for a floating hotel - get up, enjoy breakfast, spend the day in a new (and interesting) place, then back to the hotel to eat and sleep. Beats the hell out of bus tours where you have to lug luggage (unpack & pack) around every day.

I could care less about trans-Atlantic trips - done that sort of thing doing trans-Pacific. But a Med cruise is actually pretty neat.
 
rfields5421
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RE: Two Accidents To Cruise Ships Today

Tue Feb 12, 2013 8:13 pm

Quoting starbuk7 (Reply 25):
This is why I will never go on a cruise, did several of them on big Grey Boats that launch aircraft and going back out on another one is not for me.

I know everyone says that it is not the same, there is so much more to do and you are not working and etc etc, but look where they are now, stuck in the middle of the ocean. No Thanks

As I was standing in line to board for my first Alaska cruise - the standard question was "What other cruises have your done?"

To which my last answer was "I hope this experience is better than the USS Midway in the winter North Pacific."

I was very surprised at how enjoyable the cruise was.

As Ken said - wake up - good breakfast, visit a new and interesting place, come back to my fine hotel for a nice dinner and very interesting enertainment at night.

But you are right - if something happens - I would not want to be on that ship.
 
MD11Engineer
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RE: Two Accidents To Cruise Ships Today

Tue Feb 12, 2013 8:44 pm

Quoting starbuk7 (Reply 25):
This is why I will never go on a cruise, did several of them on big Grey Boats that launch aircraft and going back out on another one is not for me.

I know everyone says that it is not the same, there is so much more to do and you are not working and etc etc, but look where they are now, stuck in the middle of the ocean. No Thanks

I don´t know, I think a cruise would be quite boring for me without really having anything to do on the ship (I´m not really a fan of shopping malls and and you can only eat so much in a restaurant).
I also like to time my trips according to my own wishes, e.g. I like a place I´ll stay there for a few days, but other places, which I don´t like I´ll be out fast.

As to the life boat accident, steel cables don´t snap by themselves. I´m quite sure that a closer inspection will reveal corrosion inside the cable, which points to sloppy maintenance.

Jan

[Edited 2013-02-12 13:35:35]
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OA260
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RE: Two Accidents To Cruise Ships Today

Tue Feb 12, 2013 8:56 pm

Quoting starbuk7 (Reply 25):
This is why I will never go on a cruise, did several of them on big Grey Boats that launch aircraft and going back out on another one is not for me.

I know everyone says that it is not the same, there is so much more to do and you are not working and etc etc, but look where they are now, stuck in the middle of the ocean. No Thanks

Well it certainly is a different experience but if you dont want to then thats a personal choice. On my last cruise I met a ex Navy guy who just loved the cruise ships so I guess its a matter of horses for courses etc... Was great to hear his stories though. He was a wealth of knowledge about technical information etc...

A cruise can be as lazy or busy as you want it to be. My last one had a port intensive itinerary and I actually would have loved some sea days to chill out. I think a 9 night with 3 sea days spread out in between is a perfect combination. Im not into these party ships personally but I love attending seminars where interesting people talk about their life and expeditions and also about the ports of call.
 
Starbuk7
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RE: Two Accidents To Cruise Ships Today

Tue Feb 12, 2013 9:13 pm

Quoting rfields5421 (Reply 27):
I hope this experience is better than the USS Midway in the winter North Pacific


Yep, spent 3 and a half years on the USS Midway (with one sting of 111 straight sea days before a port), then another Indian Ocean cruise on the Midway, two more west pacs on the Nimitz, and some short workup stuff on the Stennis, Constellation and Lincoln.

I suppose a cruise could be fun if there were a lot of ports and not much sea time, but when you are at sea, you are at sea and there is nowhere else to go if you get bored with the ship.
 
Ken777
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RE: Two Accidents To Cruise Ships Today

Tue Feb 12, 2013 9:22 pm

Quoting MD11Engineer (Reply 28):
I think a cruise would be quite boring for me without really having anything to do on the ship

I think it depends on the cruise stops. Trans-Atlantic leaves me cold, but the Med has a great list of ships that can be reached via overnight sailing.

And, let's face it, for a Yank in Oklahoma European river cruises & Med cruises offers an extraordinary range of places to visit briefly on a "quick look" basis, with the ability to add them to a bucket list of places to go.

Quoting MD11Engineer (Reply 28):
I also like to time my trips according to my own wishes, e.g. I like a place I´ll stay there for a few days, but other places, which I don´t like I´ll be out fast

Don't blame you, but then you're pretty close to a wide range of cultures and places that are within driving range. Compare that to Oklahoma.
 
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RE: Two Accidents To Cruise Ships Today

Wed Feb 13, 2013 12:12 am

Quoting MD11Engineer (Reply 28):

I don´t know, I think a cruise would be quite boring for me without really having anything to do on the ship (I´m not really a fan of shopping malls and and you can only eat so much in a restaurant).

Like Ken777 said, it depends on what type of cruise you do and where.

If you do a Mediterranean or Baltic sea cruise, you spend most of the days
being busy exploring the cities and don't spend especially much time on the ship.

Sure Its not the same or as extensive as travelling by yourself but you can on the other
hand see it as appetizers of some interesting cities that you would like to visit.
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Revelation
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RE: Two Accidents To Cruise Ships Today

Wed Feb 13, 2013 1:28 am

Stinking Carnival cruise ship being towed to Alabama says:

Quote:

Brent Nutt of Texas told the CNN network that his wife Bethany, a passenger on the ship, described in a telephone call on Monday "horrific" conditions and fighting over scarce food.

"The odor is so bad that it's making them sick," Nutt said. "They're vomiting and stuff all over the boat just from the odor ... There's feces all over the floor."

Not exactly what's in the glossy brochures, eh?
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Ken777
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RE: Two Accidents To Cruise Ships Today

Wed Feb 13, 2013 1:30 am

Quoting starbuk7 (Reply 30):
I suppose a cruise could be fun if there were a lot of ports and not much sea time, but when you are at sea, you are at sea and there is nowhere else to go if you get bored with the ship.

My first two WestPac cruises were spent going in a small circle for a month or so - our position was called PIRAZ - and then a period of time either on an R&R visit (limited as we were a nuclear powered) or in Subic for maintenance. With Australia and Hong Kong as the main R&R ports I really can't complain about that small circle.
 
AeroWesty
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RE: Two Accidents To Cruise Ships Today

Wed Feb 13, 2013 1:39 am

Quoting Ken777 (Reply 34):
My first two WestPac cruises were spent going in a small circle for a month or so - our position was called PIRAZ

That sounds like what a friend of mine's dad did in the Coast Guard sometime in the 50s/60s. IIRC, there was a chain of ships, for lack of a better description, which simply made a course for a predetermined square or circle, which aircraft flying the Pacific would use as points of navigation using a unique signal each ship was broadcasting 24/7. Was that similar to what you did with PIRAZ?

(I'm sure I've got the descriptions of ships and navigation and signals all wrong.)
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BRJ
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RE: Two Accidents To Cruise Ships Today

Wed Feb 13, 2013 2:10 am

Anyone know if Carnival uses a specific carrier for their charter services? Read an article on CNN that they are chartering 20 flights to fly people to Houston from Mobile.

Article says that they've reserved hotel rooms in both Houston and New Orleans. Speaking of, wonder why they didn't tow into New Orleans, bigger cruise terminal. It's gonna be rough processing 3,100 passengers in Mobile, I've cruised out of there.

Friend's relatives are on this cruise. Cannot imagine not having A/C let alone water and toilets. At least balcony rooms can open the door for fresh air. Makes think to book a balcony on all future cruises.
 
slider
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RE: Two Accidents To Cruise Ships Today

Wed Feb 13, 2013 7:50 pm

Quoting BRJ (Reply 36):
Speaking of, wonder why they didn't tow into New Orleans, bigger cruise terminal.

No clue, although an uneducated guess might be that MOB has a shipyard they can use vs NOLA. Might be a capacity issue, who knows.




The situation keeps getting worse for Carnival.
http://www.chron.com/news/houston-te...nal-cruises-on-Triumph-4275429.php

They're canceling TWELVE more cruises on this ship from Galveston---this pretty much decimates the entire spring break run in Texas. For HISD, that's 11-15 March.

UGLY.
 
rfields5421
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RE: Two Accidents To Cruise Ships Today

Wed Feb 13, 2013 8:04 pm

Quoting slider (Reply 37):
Quoting BRJ (Reply 36):Speaking of, wonder why they didn't tow into New Orleans, bigger cruise terminal.
No clue, although an uneducated guess might be that MOB has a shipyard they can use vs NOLA. Might be a capacity issue, who knows.

New Orleans would be a horrible place to tow a ship that large. It is 95 miles of towing the ship uphill against the 1 to 1.5 mph current in a very crowded waterway with no possible room for mistakes.
 
luv2fly
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RE: Two Accidents To Cruise Ships Today

Wed Feb 13, 2013 8:08 pm

Quoting BRJ (Reply 36):
Anyone know if Carnival uses a specific carrier for their charter services? Read an article on CNN that they are chartering 20 flights to fly people to Houston from Mobile.



Probably a couple of Miami Air 737's doing back to back flights, 4 planes 5 flights each. Think about it, once they get off the plane on to the bus to the airport and on the plane, fly to HOU, fly back and repeat.
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AeroWesty
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RE: Two Accidents To Cruise Ships Today

Wed Feb 13, 2013 8:10 pm

Quoting luv2fly (Reply 39):
Probably a couple of Miami Air 737's doing back to back flights, 4 planes 5 flights each.

The seats will need a good scrubbing down after all that. Seeing as how those poor folks have gone days without a shower. Ugh.
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OA260
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RE: Two Accidents To Cruise Ships Today

Wed Feb 13, 2013 9:07 pm

Quoting BRJ (Reply 36):
Makes think to book a balcony on all future cruises.

Wise choice even when things go to plan I always like to have a balcony often leaving it slightly open at night to have fresh air and hear the waves is quite nice. Also to air the room the next morning. Makes a huge difference.
 
Ken777
Posts: 9064
Joined: Thu Mar 11, 2004 5:39 am

RE: Two Accidents To Cruise Ships Today

Wed Feb 13, 2013 9:36 pm

Quoting AeroWesty (Reply 35):
Was that similar to what you did with PIRAZ?

PIRAZ was basically positive identification of flights over North Vietnam, especially on their return to the carriers. One major objective was to ensure a plane from the North didn't slip in at the rear of US flights heading home.

Ad far as Carnival goes, this FUBAR clearly points to the need for upgrading engineering of cruise ships. The first obvious need is for the toilet systems to be independent of the fresh water from the evaps. The potential for disease is too high to allow the casual attitude now held. Make it a requirement for all ships sailing in US waters - and hopefully get European countries to demand the same. This should be a no-brainer as it is cheaper to quickly filter salt water for use in the toilets than it is to use fuel to make drinking water.

The second FUBAR appears to be a lack of procedures for ensuring that passengers have food and water.

Standards need to be raised and they need federal laws and regulations to force those changes.

And maybe a few angry juries to help move needed safety upgrades to the top of the "To Do List".
 
northstardc4m
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RE: Two Accidents To Cruise Ships Today

Wed Feb 13, 2013 10:25 pm

Quoting OA260 (Reply 41):
Wise choice even when things go to plan I always like to have a balcony often leaving it slightly open at night to have fresh air and hear the waves is quite nice. Also to air the room the next morning. Makes a huge difference.

I'm totally hooked on Balcony now... I can just lounge out there and listen to the ocean going by... sooo relaxing.
Those who would give up Essential Liberty to purchase a little Temporary Safety, deserve neither Liberty nor Safety.
 
Okie
Posts: 3555
Joined: Wed Jul 16, 2003 11:30 am

RE: Two Accidents To Cruise Ships Today

Thu Feb 14, 2013 2:23 am

Quoting Ken777 (Reply 42):
Standards need to be raised and they need federal laws and regulations to force those changes

Carnivals ships are flying the flags of Malta, Portugal, Liberia, Panama, and the Bahamas.

Good luck with those new US federal laws and regulations.

Okie
 
rfields5421
Posts: 5651
Joined: Thu Jul 19, 2007 12:45 am

RE: Two Accidents To Cruise Ships Today

Thu Feb 14, 2013 3:40 am

Quoting Ken777 (Reply 42):
Standards need to be raised

Yes, standards need to be raised, however, I can't see any way to force a retor-fit among existing ships. In some cases, it won't be physically possible.

Quoting okie (Reply 44):
Good luck with those new US federal laws and regulations.

Those laws will work just fine, when ships unable to meet those laws are prohibited from embarking or debarking passengers in US ports.
 
Okie
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Joined: Wed Jul 16, 2003 11:30 am

RE: Two Accidents To Cruise Ships Today

Thu Feb 14, 2013 4:07 am

Quoting rfields5421 (Reply 45):
Those laws will work just fine, when ships unable to meet those laws are prohibited from embarking or debarking passengers in US ports

I believe as long as we honor the flagged country's laws and they ours they are allowed passengers and freight. I am not even sure if there is even any cruise line operating under the US flag anymore.
Seems I remember some 20/20 hindsight show where the US authorities were pulling their hair out having to allow a foreign flag freight carrier dock at a US port that only met some very minimum requirements from the flagged country.
The best I can remember the US inspection noted that they did not even have a fire extinguisher on the entire ship nor were required to have one by the flagged country.

There is the Jones Act but that does not refer to passengers and freight.

Okie
 
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OA260
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RE: Two Accidents To Cruise Ships Today

Thu Feb 14, 2013 8:50 am

Quoting NorthStarDC4M (Reply 43):
I'm totally hooked on Balcony now... I can just lounge out there and listen to the ocean going by... sooo relaxing.

Yes its wonderful to do and you can have breakfast delivered there too and its very private and enjoyable if you dont want to get up and go to the restaurant early.
 
zanl188
Posts: 3447
Joined: Sat Oct 21, 2006 9:05 pm

RE: Two Accidents To Cruise Ships Today

Thu Feb 14, 2013 10:36 am

How does a single event, the fire, take out all propulsion?


Why not have a split plant. Have a fire? No worries - proceed to safe port at half speed.
Legal considerations provided by: Dewey, Cheatum, and Howe
 
rfields5421
Posts: 5651
Joined: Thu Jul 19, 2007 12:45 am

RE: Two Accidents To Cruise Ships Today

Thu Feb 14, 2013 3:08 pm

Quoting ZANL188 (Reply 48):
How does a single event, the fire, take out all propulsion?

Like a locomotive engine - modern cruise ships really only have the engines running one big a$$ generator to supply electrical power.

They are not built with redundancy in mind.

Quoting ZANL188 (Reply 48):
Why not have a split plant.

Costs and space, which costs money.

I was absolutely shocked to see my first cruise ship approaching the dock. Having been on many, and seen many US Navy ships dock - to see the ship pull up and stop about 50 feet from the dock and then maneuver directly sideways to the dock. Without any tugs!!!

965 feet long, 105 feet wide, 23 foot draft and close to 100 feet high of sail area.

Those pod drives are absolutely amazing.

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