andrej
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Pope Benedict XVI To Resign

Mon Feb 11, 2013 10:58 am

Hey all,

little unexpected, but on Feb. 28 Pope Benedict XVI will resign due to health reasons.

News just breaking on Bloomberg.

[Edited 2013-02-11 02:58:46]
 
blueflyer
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RE: Pope Benedict XVI To Resign

Mon Feb 11, 2013 11:06 am

Al Jazeera and BBC confirm, saying they heard it from a Vatican spokesman.
http://www.aljazeera.com/news/europe/2013/02/2013211105348481339.html

I must admit I am surprised. I thought this was a "job" for life quite literally.
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wilco737
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RE: Pope Benedict XVI To Resign

Mon Feb 11, 2013 11:10 am

Quoting blueflyer (Reply 1):
I must admit I am surprised. I thought this was a "job" for life quite literally.

Yes, so I've heard myself. But it looks like there is a possibility to resign from that position as well.

What happens to him after being pope? Usually it is death, but what now?

wilco737
  
 
Kiwirob
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RE: Pope Benedict XVI To Resign

Mon Feb 11, 2013 11:15 am

Quoting wilco737 (Reply 2):
What happens to him after being pope? Usually it is death, but what now?

Old age, a nice pension and a villa in the sun somewhere.
 
flyingturtle
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RE: Pope Benedict XVI To Resign

Mon Feb 11, 2013 11:15 am

History in the making. The last pope to resign was Coelestin V or Celestin V, who abdicated in 1294.

A wise move from him, because he did not manage to reform anything in the Roman Catholic Church.



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andrej
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RE: Pope Benedict XVI To Resign

Mon Feb 11, 2013 11:21 am

Well, latest news suggest that he is frail and unable to cope with the position. I guess that he will 'retire' and live his last days/months/years somewhere in a countryside.

He plans to retire on Feb. 28 at 20:00.

I am little bemused as I thought that this 'job' is for life as well.
 
MadameConcorde
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RE: Pope Benedict XVI To Resign

Mon Feb 11, 2013 11:26 am

Quoting blueflyer (Reply 1):
I must admit I am surprised. I thought this was a "job" for life quite literally.

I saw this information on the BBC News site - was wondering if it was posted. Thanks for starting a thread.

Pope Benedict XVI says he will resign, ANSA reports

1116
A Vatican official says he expects the period when the papacy is vacant to be "as brief as possible, Reuters reports.
http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-21409149

There's been no Pope resignation in Eons of years.

His predecessor John Paul the Second was gravely ill many years and he still waited to die. He did not give his resignation in spite of his poor health condition and suffering so much pain.

This is very strange.

Possibly this "resignation" is all organized/fabricated by Vatican stronghold Cardinals with an already named "shadow" successor to this Pope.

If true, this will be the first time a Pope has left office since Pope Gregory XII in 1415!!!!

Maybe he will tweet his reasons himself. He just created a twitter account a couple months ago.

Edited to add link

Pope Benedict XVI to resign
Pope Benedict XVI has announced he will resign on February 28th, saying he no longer had the strength to fulfill the duties of his office.

more here:
http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/reli...4/Pope-Benedict-XVI-to-resign.html

Pope Benedict XVI resigns: pontiff's statement in full
The full statement from Pope Benedict XVI, who has announced he will resign on February 28.

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/reli...ns-pontiffs-statement-in-full.html

 Wow!   

The one thing I like about this Pope is that he is a dresser. Always looking so elegant with these beautiful vestments from the Vatican collections of traditional wear and also his red shoes. He is quite a fashionista!

[Edited 2013-02-11 03:35:20]
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zkojq
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RE: Pope Benedict XVI To Resign

Mon Feb 11, 2013 11:34 am

Quoting MadameConcorde (Reply 6):
Possibly this "resignation" is all organized/fabricated by Vatican stronghold Cardinals with an already named "shadow" successor to this Pope.

Maybe he 'saw the light' and became a protestant.      


More seriously, I hope that his successor is a reformer.
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Aesma
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RE: Pope Benedict XVI To Resign

Mon Feb 11, 2013 12:02 pm

Wow, didn't expect that ! There are a lot of politics going on in the Vatican (usual when an "old guy" is elected pope, since it is known he won't last), so I wonder who will come out. Will we have a pope from the South ? Or an Italian ?
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MadameConcorde
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RE: Pope Benedict XVI To Resign

Mon Feb 11, 2013 12:02 pm

Can I be the next Pope?

I will turn Saint Peter and all Vatican property into National Museums and declared Italian government property. All remaining Vatican non-historical property and real estate owned by the Vatican will be sold.

I will spend all that money restoring all possibly flyable Concordes to flying condition including all Museum Concordes and will make sure all maintenance costs are paid for the next 100 years. I will have all the aircraft returned to Air France and British Airways for use in air shows and other exceptional circumstances.

Other historical aircraft such as the Avro Vulcan bomber XH558 will also be a part of this project.

All financial proceeds will go to aviation projects and various aviation/airlines charities wordwide. The Bank of the Vatican will be closed and the State of Vatican will no longer exist.

All Cardinals, Bishops and priests will be dismissed right on the spot at my becoming Pope. There will be no more such titles or jobs and will be free to start some other organisations/churches on their own.

        
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RE: Pope Benedict XVI To Resign

Mon Feb 11, 2013 12:24 pm

Quoting wilco737 (Reply 2):
What happens to him after being pope? Usually it is death, but what now?

Well, I think he'll arrive at that sooner or later.   
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ltbewr
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RE: Pope Benedict XVI To Resign

Mon Feb 11, 2013 12:26 pm

Wow, what a surprising announcement ! Definitely a rather unexpected news story to wake up to. As noted, it is the first abdication of the Papacy since 1294. While this is allowed by Canon Law, and Pope Benedict XVI has formally announced his departure to be effective as of February 24th. With such a long time since the last non-death ending of office it will be interesting to see how the process goes. Apparently he is resigning due to declining health limiting his ability to fully do his job. It is interesting that his timing of this announcement is just before Lent starts on Wednesday, one of the holiest periods of the church year.

Normally after a Pontiff dies, there is 9 days of official morning before the conclave of the Cardinals to determine the successor. I would presume a similar timing will occur, that the the Cardinals will meet in early March.

Of course after the initial shock of this announcement will be the huge speculation as to his successor. I bet already and in a few hours the 'horse race' will begin as to who could be likely successors. Could the church choose a person not from Europe, perhaps from Africa or the Americas? I expect the choice of another hard line conservative like Benedict XVI has been. Will they choose another 70+ year old or someone who in their 50's or 60's? The Church faces huge pressures on it for the horrible way that have handled the issues of sex abuser priests so could the choose someone who will change that attitude (doubt it). There is a 'war for souls' in Africa vs. Islam and other Christian faiths and millions of baptized Catholics have turned away from the Church for personal reasons. They need to make a bold choice to reform the Church to bring it into the 21st Century or face even more decline.
 
Kiwirob
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RE: Pope Benedict XVI To Resign

Mon Feb 11, 2013 12:34 pm

Quoting MadameConcorde (Reply 9):
Can I be the next Pope?

If that's how you would waste all the money instead of actually helping people then hopefully not. Maybe that's why they won't give the job to a woman, to much insantity  
 
RussianJet
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RE: Pope Benedict XVI To Resign

Mon Feb 11, 2013 12:35 pm

Incredible. I'm not really sure how one can legitimately resign from being the claimed successor of St. Peter (of course I don't even slightly recognise him as being so, but that's the claim).
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MadameConcorde
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RE: Pope Benedict XVI To Resign

Mon Feb 11, 2013 12:36 pm

Quoting ltbewr (Reply 11):
Apparently he is resigning due to declining health limiting his ability to fully do his job.

This is what we are being told - which I don't believe is the real truth.

Quoting ltbewr (Reply 11):
Of course after the initial shock of this announcement will be the huge speculation as to his successor.

The next Pope name is probably already known within the Vatican "insiders" circle.

The rest is just stories for the public.

There have been so many scandals and bizarre happenings in the Vatican though the years. This is just one more to add to the list.

Marcinkus and the Ambrosiano scandal to name only one of them.

Paul Casimir Marcinkus (January 15, 1922 – February 20, 2006) was an American archbishop of the Roman Catholic Church. He was best known for his tenure as President of the Vatican Bank from 1971 through 1989

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Paul_Marcinkus

Age and health are not an issue for this Pope. His predecessor Pope John Paul II had a grave illness and he was in much less condition than this Pope and he continued the job til his very last day.

This is something different. There must be something he knows that forced him to resign.

      

[Edited 2013-02-11 04:41:06]
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RussianJet
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RE: Pope Benedict XVI To Resign

Mon Feb 11, 2013 12:40 pm

Quoting MadameConcorde (Reply 14):
which I don't believe is the real truth.

Hehe, Madame vous me faites rire!   

I can't recall the last time I saw anything reported that you didn't believe was some kind of conspiracy.   

I jest, of course.
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travelavnut
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RE: Pope Benedict XVI To Resign

Mon Feb 11, 2013 12:41 pm

Quoting KiwiRob (Reply 12):
If that's how you would waste all the money instead of actually helping people then hopefully not. Maybe that's why they won't give the job to a woman, to much insantity

Well the proposals by Madama Concorde sound much better to me than how the church is spending it now. I have a serious dislike for the Roman Catholic church, getting rid of that puppet show and getting some Concorde's in the air sounds like a terrific good idea.

[Edited 2013-02-11 05:04:26]
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RussianJet
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RE: Pope Benedict XVI To Resign

Mon Feb 11, 2013 12:55 pm

Quoting travelavnut (Reply 16):
getting rid of that puppet show and getting some Concorde's in the air sounds like a terrific good idea.

If only such choices existed!
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MadameConcorde
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RE: Pope Benedict XVI To Resign

Mon Feb 11, 2013 1:00 pm

Quoting RussianJet (Reply 15):
I can't recall the last time I saw anything reported that you didn't believe was some kind of conspiracy.

I am not one who believes everything I am being told by the media.

At least they won't find this Pope dead in a strange way. He will be allowed to finish his life in peace with his cats and his grand piano. He will be much happier that way.

Pianist Pope Reflects on Power of Music
http://www.zenit.org/en/articles/pia...st-pope-reflects-on-power-of-music

Pope Benedict XVI And Music: A Love Story Told In Pictures
http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2012/0...enedict-xvi-loves-c_n_1566052.html

Quoting travelavnut (Reply 16):
getting rid of that puppet show and getting some Concorde's in the air sounds like a terrific good idea.

In fact this Pope may very well have flown on Concorde on Pope John Paul II official flights when he had the Vatican charter Air France Concordes on a few of his long distance travels to make his travel time shorter.

May 2 1989 - Pope John Paul II waves to the crowds from a Concorde jet at Luanda airport (Photo #2)
http://www.bbc.co.uk/media/images/47226000/jpg/_47226468_51397293.jpg

I would in fact be serving former Pope's memory by having the planes restored to flying condition if I can be the next Pope. Also I will be serving the aviation community as a whole and become extremely popular for returning Concorde to flight.

     

[Edited 2013-02-11 05:01:25]

[Edited 2013-02-11 05:09:12]
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Aesma
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RE: Pope Benedict XVI To Resign

Mon Feb 11, 2013 1:03 pm

Quoting MadameConcorde (Reply 14):
Age and health are not an issue for this Pope.

I disagree somewhat. Sure JP2 continued his papal duties till the end, but he had no control over the Vatican, and it's the same with Benoit. The house of cards is falling apart and only a strong leader can clean up the mess.
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RussianJet
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RE: Pope Benedict XVI To Resign

Mon Feb 11, 2013 1:04 pm

Quoting MadameConcorde (Reply 18):
I am not one who believes everything I am being told by the media.

Well, I can certainly understand why. I agree to a large extent. Having said that, not everything is a conspiracy.
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CPH-R
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RE: Pope Benedict XVI To Resign

Mon Feb 11, 2013 1:18 pm

Sounds like his health has been going downward swiftly in the past few months, punctuated by his doctor advising him against travelling on longer journeys, and him having trouble even walking. Some rumours even mentions early stages of Parkinson's.

Early rumours on a potential future pope are cardinals Peter Turkson of Ghana, Oscar Rodriguez Maradiaga of Honduras, or Angelo Scola of Italy. Whomever is chosen in the coming conclave, it will have to be one who cannot be conncted to the cover-up scandals that have rocked the Vatican in the last few years. It'll be the only way forward for the Catholic church.

[Edited 2013-02-11 05:19:29]
 
LH7478i
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RE: Pope Benedict XVI To Resign

Mon Feb 11, 2013 1:39 pm

Opinions about pope Benedikt XVI left aside, it was probably the best thing for everybody that he "retired" from the office. What would be the point of having a pope only being exhibited to the public on the catholic holidays with no real control over his office while he is on live support or in another difficult condition.
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rfields5421
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RE: Pope Benedict XVI To Resign

Mon Feb 11, 2013 1:45 pm

Quoting blueflyer (Reply 1):
I thought this was a "job" for life quite literally.

The Roman Catholic Church, and some others, have a major problem, and hopefully this action will make dealing with that problem easier in the future.

The church basically says the Pope is appointed personally by God to lead the church. And only God determines how long he has that position. Some other churches have a similar view.

The problem is that modern medical science is well able to carry a person past what would normally be the end of their life.

The Roman Catholic Church now says biships, and other clergy, should retire at age 75. The pope should not be an exception to the concept of retirement due to age/ health in my opinion.

Quoting wilco737 (Reply 2):
What happens to him after being pope? Usually it is death, but what now?

He becomes a retired priest. His statement says he wishes to continue to serve the Church through a life of prayer. i.e. he won't be able to do much in the rest of his life but rest in the equilavent of an old age home awaiting his death.
 
MadameConcorde
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RE: Pope Benedict XVI To Resign

Mon Feb 11, 2013 1:45 pm

Quoting CPH-R (Reply 21):
Early rumours on a potential future pope are cardinals Peter Turkson of Ghana, Oscar Rodriguez Maradiaga of Honduras, or Angelo Scola of Italy. Whomever is chosen in the coming conclave

The next Pope is probably all set up already or at least in the process of being named in the shadow.

The eligible Cardinals cannot conclave officially until after Pope Benny's resignation date. I would say they will conclave and have the vote by mid-March.

    
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MadameConcorde
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RE: Pope Benedict XVI To Resign

Mon Feb 11, 2013 1:51 pm

Quoting ltbewr (Reply 11):
As noted, it is the first abdication of the Papacy since 1294.

Here is the list of Popes that have resigned.

1) Pontain Sept 28, 235

2) Marcellinus In the year of 304

3) Silverius Nov 11, 537

4) John XVIII In the year of 1009

5) Benedict IX May 1, 1045

6) Celestine V Dec 10, 1249

7) Gregory XII July 4, 1417.

  
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MaverickM11
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RE: Pope Benedict XVI To Resign

Mon Feb 11, 2013 1:54 pm

Quoting MadameConcorde (Reply 9):

I will turn Saint Peter and all Vatican property into National Museums and declared Italian government property. All remaining Vatican non-historical property and real estate owned by the Vatican will be sold.

  

Quoting MadameConcorde (Reply 14):
This is something different. There must be something he knows that forced him to resign.

He realized he's been a terrible head of a criminal organization that has existed by raping and pillaging for centuries?
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MadameConcorde
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RE: Pope Benedict XVI To Resign

Mon Feb 11, 2013 2:03 pm

Quoting CPH-R (Reply 21):
Early rumours on a potential future pope are cardinals Peter Turkson of Ghana

Peter Kodwo Appiah Turkson (born 11 October 1948) is a Ghanaian Cardinal of the Catholic Church. He is the current president of the Pontifical Council for Justice and Peace since his appointment by Pope Benedict XVI on 24 October 2009. He had previously served as Archbishop of Cape Coast. He was elevated to the cardinalate by Pope John Paul II in 2003.

more:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Peter_Turkson

Quoting MaverickM11 (Reply 26):
He realized he's been a terrible head of a criminal organization that has existed by raping and pillaging for centuries?

The pope made a speech in Latin this morning saying he doesn't have the strength anymore.

Ratzinger is old but he still has an incredible mind. What has shaken him? who can tell.

 

List of the 11 shortest-reigning Popes

Boniface VI (April, 896):[14] reigned for 16 calendar days
Celestine IV (October 25–November 10, 1241): reigned for 17 calendar days, died before consecration.
Theodore II (December, 897) reigned for 20 calendar days
Sisinnius (January 15–February 4, 708): reigned for 21 calendar days
Marcellus II (April 9–May 1, 1555): reigned for 22 calendar days
Damasus II (July 17–August 9, 1048): reigned for 24 calendar days
Pius III (September 22–October 18, 1503): reigned for 27 calendar days.
Leo XI (April 1–April 27, 1605): reigned for 27 calendar days
Benedict V (May 22–June 23, 964): reigned for 33 calendar days.
John Paul I (August 26–September 28, 1978): reigned for 33 calendar days.

 alert 

[Edited 2013-02-11 06:08:06]
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Kiwirob
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RE: Pope Benedict XVI To Resign

Mon Feb 11, 2013 2:06 pm

Quoting MadameConcorde (Reply 14):
Age and health are not an issue for this Pope. His predecessor Pope John Paul II had a grave illness and he was in much less condition than this Pope and he continued the job til his very last day.

This is something different. There must be something he knows that forced him to resign.

I think he doesn't want to end up like JP2, better to go whilst you still have all your faculties intact than remaining like a puppet to be displayed on special occasions.
 
CPH-R
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RE: Pope Benedict XVI To Resign

Mon Feb 11, 2013 2:27 pm

Quoting KiwiRob (Reply 28):
I think he doesn't want to end up like JP2, better to go whilst you still have all your faculties intact than remaining like a puppet to be displayed on special occasions.

This. He's 85, coming up on 86, he can barely walk, he's lost a lot of energy, his doctors have told him to avoid travels. He saw up, close, and personally what happened to JP2, and has decided he doesn't want to end like that.

It's a break with tradition, but I'm pretty sure I can remember back in 2005, a lot of experts predicting that his reign would be a brief interlude, until a young(ish) pope could be chosen. Perhaps he feels that now's the time to bring one such pope in.
 
MadameConcorde
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RE: Pope Benedict XVI To Resign

Mon Feb 11, 2013 2:48 pm

Quoting CPH-R (Reply 29):
He's 85, coming up on 86, he can barely walk, he's lost a lot of energy, his doctors have told him to avoid travels.

The Man in White hasn't lost any of his intellectual capabilities. His mind is sharp as anything.

That he cancelled his travels is a good idea - it saves a lot of money. He has had a totally different style than that of his predecessor who had really reached stardom worldwide travelling everywhere. Pope Benny is totally old fashioned traditional.

Pope Benedict XVI remains in full charge of the church until 7pm (GMT) February 28th

I don't think Turkson will be chosen for next Pope as he has caused uproar among his peers.

Cardinal Peter Turkson Causes Uproar With 'Muslim Scare' Video At Vatican

(Reuters) - A Roman Catholic cardinal has caused an uproar at the Vatican by screening a spurious YouTube video that makes alarmist predictions about the growth of Islam in Europe.
The seven-minute clip, called "Muslim Demographics," was the talk of an international gathering of bishops on Monday, two days after Cardinal Peter Turkson screened it during a free discussion period.
http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2012/1...n_1968544.html?utm_hp_ref=religion

My take is that the next Pope will be an Italian - returning to the tradition of Italian Popes after the two past foreign Popes.

RAI TV station Live (in Italian)
http://www.rai.it/dl/rai/news.html

Popes die as Popes, this is weird, JPII could hardly keep his head up and he died as a Pope.
Something is not right

 Wow!

[Edited 2013-02-11 06:51:34]
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mt99
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RE: Pope Benedict XVI To Resign

Mon Feb 11, 2013 2:49 pm

Quoting CPH-R (Reply 29):
until a young(ish) pope could be chosen. Perhaps he feels that now's the time to bring one such pope in.

Pope Benedict appointed in 55% of the cardinals that are eligible to vote in his successor and the rest were appointed by JP II; who in turn elected Benedict. So its likely that the same "line" of though will be maintained.
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BN747
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RE: Pope Benedict XVI To Resign

Mon Feb 11, 2013 3:01 pm

Quoting CPH-R (Reply 21):

Early rumours on a potential future pope are cardinals Peter Turkson of Ghana,
Quoting MadameConcorde (Reply 27):
Peter Kodwo Appiah Turkson (born 11 October 1948) is a Ghanaian Cardinal of the Catholic Church. He is the current president of the Pontifical Council for Justice and Peace since his appointment by Pope Benedict XVI on 24 October 2009. He had previously served as Archbishop of Cape Coast. He was elevated to the cardinalate by Pope John Paul II in 2003.

more:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Peter_T...rkson

A Black Guy as Pope???

I don't see it! I'll have sore kidneys for years from laughing so hard as a new religious European Tea Party springs up demanding ..'they want their Church back!'

If true, my European friends having trouble understanding the 'It's Obama's Fault' dilemma..get ready to be tested in the same way.. and it is sure to unfold in the very same manner with political leaders making snide comments of his legitimacy. At least this guy wasn't a member of Nazi Hitler Youth and chances are minimal that he played the popular shell game in hiding those tied to child molestation in their past.

I know there's been a black Pope or two in the past, but a lot of financial and political clout has been accumulated since, this is the age of serious 'Borgia-style' politics within those walls - this is about to get interesting.

BN747
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MadameConcorde
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RE: Pope Benedict XVI To Resign

Mon Feb 11, 2013 3:23 pm

Quoting BN747 (Reply 32):
A Black Guy as Pope???

I don't see it!

Not that he is African (Black) more because of his speech on Muslims.

Looking at possible successors I am thinking of Angelo Comastri. He is Italian. The Archpriest of Saint Peter's basilica. Hes the Vicar General for the Vatican, the day-to-day administrator. And hes the President of the Fabric of Saint Peter.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Angelo_Comastri
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Fabric_of_Saint_Peter

Pope's Dove Attacked By Seagull At Holocaust Remembrance Day Ceremony (PHOTO)
http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2013/0...ed-by-seagull-peace_n_2574054.html


Pope latest twit Feb 10
Benedict XVI‏@Pontifex
We must trust in the mighty power of God’s mercy. We are all sinners, but His grace transforms us and makes us new.

   
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Cadet985
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RE: Pope Benedict XVI To Resign

Mon Feb 11, 2013 3:25 pm

As a Jew, I say good riddance. I still can't figure out how someone who was a member of the Hitler Youth rose to such a position.

I do NOT wish bad upon him at all, but feel that because of his past, he should have never even had this job in the first place.

Marc
 
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Aesma
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RE: Pope Benedict XVI To Resign

Mon Feb 11, 2013 3:25 pm

I doubt a black pope would be a problem in itself, with fewer and fewer westerners willing to live the priesthood (or able, since now homosexuality is forbidden even if non "practiced" ), you see imported priests from Africa everywhere.
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RussianJet
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RE: Pope Benedict XVI To Resign

Mon Feb 11, 2013 3:31 pm

Quoting Cadet985 (Reply 34):
I still can't figure out how someone who was a member of the Hitler Youth rose to such a position.

I do NOT wish bad upon him at all, but feel that because of his past, he should have never even had this job in the first place.

One could hold him up of an example of how someone's childhood and what was prevalent on them at the time does not have to mean they are cursed for life because of it. If he had been an adult in the SS then I think you would have more of a point.
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RE: Pope Benedict XVI To Resign

Mon Feb 11, 2013 3:43 pm

Quoting Cadet985 (Reply 34):

As a Jew, I say good riddance. I still can't figure out how someone who was a member of the Hitler Youth rose to such a position.

Yes, becuse everyone forced to be a Hitler Youth wanted to be one, and they all obviously hated the Jews.  

On a different note, will the cardinals convene prior to him leaving office, so there is a seamless transition, or will they convene after the Pope leaves office, much like if the current Pope dies?
So we beat on against the current, borne back ceaselessly into the past.
 
MadameConcorde
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RE: Pope Benedict XVI To Resign

Mon Feb 11, 2013 3:43 pm

Some of the Italian candidates are :

Gianfranco Ravasi
Angelo Scola
Tarcisio Bertone
Angelo Bagnasco
Dionigi Tettamanzi

Quoting Aesma (Reply 35):
I doubt a black pope would be a problem in itself

The man known as the Black Pope is the Superior General of the Society of Jesus - the Jesuits leader. The former Black Pope has recently stepped down to be replaced.

Jesuits to Elect a New 'Black Pope'

The Jesuits' outgoing Superior General is a soft-spoken Netherlands native named Father Peter-Hans Kolvenbach, who has served since 1983. The 79-year-old last year became the first ever Jesuit leader to ask for, and receive, papal permission to retire from the post.

more:
http://www.time.com/time/world/article/0,8599,1700157,00.html

Another possible next Pope and total reformist

Christoph Maria Michael Hugo Damian Peter Adalbert (Graf von) Schönborn
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Christoph_Sch%C3%B6nborn

It seems to me it's already been decided.

  
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Dreadnought
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RE: Pope Benedict XVI To Resign

Mon Feb 11, 2013 3:44 pm

Quoting Cadet985 (Reply 34):
As a Jew, I say good riddance. I still can't figure out how someone who was a member of the Hitler Youth rose to such a position.

From Wiki:

"Following his 14th birthday in 1941, Ratzinger was conscripted into the Hitler Youth—as membership was required by law for all 14-year-old German boys after December 1939[12]—but was an unenthusiastic member who refused to attend meetings, according to his brother.[13] In 1941, one of Ratzinger's cousins, a 14-year-old boy with Down syndrome, was taken away by the Nazi regime and murdered during the Action T4 campaign of Nazi eugenics.[14] In 1943, while still in seminary, he was drafted into the German anti-aircraft corps as Luftwaffenhelfer (air force child soldier).[13] Ratzinger then trained in the German infantry.[15] As the Allied front drew closer to his post in 1945, he deserted back to his family's home in Traunstein after his unit had ceased to exist, just as American troops established their headquarters in the Ratzinger household.[16] As a German soldier, he was put in a POW camp but was released a few months later at the end of the war in the summer of 1945.[16] He reentered the seminary, along with his brother Georg, in November of that year."

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pope_Be...ct_XVI#Early_life:_1927.E2.80.9351

Shame on you for trying to paint him as a Nazi when he was obviously anything but a kid caught up in a war he wanted nothing to do with.
You have enemies? Good. That means you've stood up for something, sometime in your life. - W. Churchill
 
Stabilator
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RE: Pope Benedict XVI To Resign

Mon Feb 11, 2013 3:50 pm

To add to Dreadnought's post (was going to add that to mine):

Quote:
he eventually deserted and made his way to the American lines.[16] The Ratzinger family, according to those who knew them, were very religious and hated the Nazi regime.
Quoting Dreadnought (Reply 39):
Shame on you for trying to paint him as a Nazi when he was obviously anything but a kid caught up in a war he wanted nothing to do with.

  
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MadameConcorde
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RE: Pope Benedict XVI To Resign

Mon Feb 11, 2013 4:22 pm

Any Catholic man can be elected Pope. He doesn't have to be a Cardinal or even a priest.
If a layman is elected, he is first ordained as priest, then Bishop of Rome (Pope).

How about a woman?

   Wow!
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BN747
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RE: Pope Benedict XVI To Resign

Mon Feb 11, 2013 4:33 pm

Quoting Dreadnought (Reply 39):

Shame on you for trying to paint him as a Nazi when he was obviously anything but a kid caught up in a war he wanted nothing to do with.

You don't know that!

That's all we have to go on??? What his brother said?

Kurt Wilhelm, was long suspected of Nazi associations and rose to political prominence as head of the UN.

The point is, anyone with Nazi associations Before the war's end ... Totally Cleaned up their dossier After the War with the picture being very clear as to what your future WILL BE like from this point forward!

That meant Everyone was busy changing up their story and whitewashing it as best they could to look as Anti-Nazi as they possibly could - the Guilty and non-Guilty alike. But especially the Guilty!

This is all you have is some 21st Century recall (by his brother) of how innocent he was ??? Please! Give me an effin' break.

The Eugenics Program started back in the early 1920s, by the 1930s it was a very very safe bet that people who had visible deformities or physically handicapped members of their families - HID them or were totally embarrassed by them. Many b&w films from the 1940s & 50s do a brilliant job of showing that exact behaviour of much of society. So by the late 1930s, if Ratzinger had such a cousin, he more than likely steered clear of them for sheer and utter fear of social stigmas of the day in judging people by such association and indication of distinct poor bloodlines.

Only the courageous stood up for unfortunate people of the day, and I guarantee you that number was likw 1 in a million! Was Ratzinger such a courageous person then, a 1 in a million? I seriously doubt that! Hell...there'd be tons of documentation about him taking down molesting priests by the millions from the 1960s onwards if he were such a person. But no such records exist. We all know it was going on...where was Ratzinger?? My guess is he was busy buying White-Out by the pallet and burning photos, trying to spiff up his Nazi Youth days to look as unblemished as possible!

....and all you have is 'his brother said..."

Nothing about Ratzinger hints that he was some brave soul...anywhere!

Jeez!

Sorry dude, that won't even hold up in an Arkansas backwood courthouse.

Not only that...a 14 year old kid then is nothing like a 14 year old today, although today they are largely trouble making bumblebees of mischief, back then you were forced to grow up fast - really fast, meaning you had the mindset closer to a 18 or 19 year old because of the 'survival mode thinking' with your Nation on the move as a kickass War juggernaut!

I'm sorry, but it'll take a lot more....much more than 'his Brother said' to even get me to consider he was this angelic kid (as you believe) kicking and screaming while being dragged off to serve in the Hitler Youth Corp.

If anything. because of such a genetically-weak family member..the pressure was on to prove you were a top flight Aryan and believed wholeheartedly in der Fuhrer! I say he begged and cried to join...probably even told the SS where to find his deeply hidden crippled relative.



BN747
"Home of the Brave, made by the Slaves..Land of the Free, if you look like me.." T. Jefferson
 
CPH-R
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RE: Pope Benedict XVI To Resign

Mon Feb 11, 2013 4:40 pm

Quoting MadameConcorde (Reply 41):
How about a woman?

Given that 3 years ago women priests were considered an “crime against the faith” by the Vatican , I doubt that'll happen.
 
PHX787
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RE: Pope Benedict XVI To Resign

Mon Feb 11, 2013 4:48 pm

Since he didn't die, are the priests going to wear black or not?
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RussianJet
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RE: Pope Benedict XVI To Resign

Mon Feb 11, 2013 4:50 pm

Quoting MadameConcorde (Reply 41):
How about a woman?

Clearly not going to happen.
✈ Every strike of the hammer is a blow against the enemy. ✈
 
MD11Engineer
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RE: Pope Benedict XVI To Resign

Mon Feb 11, 2013 4:51 pm

Quoting Cadet985 (Reply 34):
I still can't figure out how someone who was a member of the Hitler Youth rose to such a position.

One of my history teachers in highschool was, as most boys of his age, who were born aroundd 1930, a member of the Hitler Youth and was fully brainwashed by Nazi propaganda. He was in April 1945 one of the teenage boys handed a rifle and a few rounds of ammo and told to take on the Red Army already entering Berlin´s outskirts.
His fighting came to a quick end after his temples were perced by a fragment of a shell fired by a Soviet tank (he told us that the last thing he ever saw in his life was this tank coming around the street corner). After he recovered, he finished highschool and later studied history in university, earning a PhD and later becoming a teacher. I have rarely known a person fiercer on denouncing totalitarian forms of government, may they be from the left or the right and who taught us to be critical defenders of democracy. Like others, who served in various positions under the Nazis, he became totally disilluishioned with the Nazis and became one of their strongest opponents.
His message was simple: Democracy and rule of law is the best form of state ever devised, after many attempts at other forms. The current German constitution with it´s emphasis on civil rights, equality of humans in front of the law with complete disregard of race, religion, gender and disabilities, and the dignity of humankind, is the best base of a law we ever had in Germany. Every citizen has the duty to defend this system against any type of attack.
Thanks, Dr. Liepe. I only realised what eactly you were teaching us when I became an adult.

Jan
Je Suis Charlie et je suis Ahmet aussi
 
Stabilator
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RE: Pope Benedict XVI To Resign

Mon Feb 11, 2013 5:00 pm

I believe enrolment in the the Hitler Youth program was compulsory.

Quoting BN747 (Reply 42):

Please read up on the Hitler Youth...
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PacNWjet
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RE: Pope Benedict XVI To Resign

Mon Feb 11, 2013 5:05 pm

Quoting BN747 (Reply 42):
I'm sorry, but it'll take a lot more....much more than 'his Brother said' to even get me to consider he was this angelic kid (as you believe) kicking and screaming while being dragged off to serve in the Hitler Youth Corp.

Do you think you are the first person to discover Pope Benedict's past? His youth has been chronicled by thousands of journalists, historians, theologians, and casual observers alike. No one knows what was in his mind as a young man except for himself, of course, but the generally accepted story, supported by a heck of a lot more than his brother's statement, is that Benedict, like countless other Germans of his age, was indoctrinated into the totalitarian political movement of his era but his actions suggest, as do mountains of evidence, that he was an unwitting, if not repentant participant in the events of the time. Surely his atonement speaks for something.
 
MadameConcorde
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RE: Pope Benedict XVI To Resign

Mon Feb 11, 2013 5:05 pm

Quoting RussianJet (Reply 45):
Clearly not going to happen.

I don't see why not.

There was a woman Pope in History. Her name was Pope Joan although some scholars pretend she never existed

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pope_Joan

  
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