varigb707
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Most Difficult Choice:Which One Would You Choose?

Mon Feb 18, 2013 4:36 pm

You and 2 other people have survived a plane crash or a ship wreck. The three of you are on a boat in the middle of the ocean somewhere...

You will have to choose one person (except you, of course) to push it off the boat. The other two are :
- Jenny MacCarthy and Carmen Elektra. Which one will you choose?

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Aesma
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RE: Most Difficult Choice:Which One Would You Choose?

Mon Feb 18, 2013 4:52 pm

Their faces scare me so I would push both !

Unless there is a paper bag aboard then I keep one.

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zckls04
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RE: Most Difficult Choice:Which One Would You Choose?

Mon Feb 18, 2013 6:13 pm

They're both appalling wastes of oxygen. I would jump off the boat myself instead.
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NSMike
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RE: Most Difficult Choice:Which One Would You Choose?

Mon Feb 18, 2013 6:25 pm

They're both pretty well used but I'd have to throw Jenny off. She seems the more annoying of the two.
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n229nw
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RE: Most Difficult Choice:Which One Would You Choose?

Mon Feb 18, 2013 7:21 pm

Not a difficult choice for me. I don't find either particularly attractive or interesting. But Jenny McCarthy is repsonsible for God knows how many kids getting sick and dying with her ridiculous campaign against childhood vaccinations. So Bye Bye Jenny.

http://www.jennymccarthybodycount.co.../Anti-Vaccine_Body_Count/Home.html

But what if they both ganged up and killed me to feed off my flesh!   


Now, put on Kate Beckinsale and Rhona Mitra instead and it would be a very hard choice. Hell, I'd offer to jump overboard to save both of them for the good of humanity.
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L0VE2FLY
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RE: Most Difficult Choice:Which One Would You Choose?

Mon Feb 18, 2013 8:53 pm

I'd jump off the boat and swim all the way to Kate Upton in Antarctica!  ...

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falstaff
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RE: Most Difficult Choice:Which One Would You Choose?

Tue Feb 19, 2013 3:32 pm

The girl with the bag on her head is probably more interesting to talk to.
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AF1624
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RE: Most Difficult Choice:Which One Would You Choose?

Tue Feb 19, 2013 3:44 pm

I'd be jumping off the boat.

Now if the choice was between Mila Kunis, Emma Stone or Kristen Bell... I'd have to "interview" the three of them before choosing. It would be a LONG interview process with MANY interviews.
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luv2fly
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RE: Most Difficult Choice:Which One Would You Choose?

Tue Feb 19, 2013 4:24 pm

I would thank my lucky stars for being gay and enjoy the boat all to myself.
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DeltaMD90
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RE: Most Difficult Choice:Which One Would You Choose?

Tue Feb 19, 2013 4:34 pm

Uh I think I'd push them both off. If I had to pick one, I'd pick the first one (whoever she is, Jenny?)
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RussianJet
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RE: Most Difficult Choice:Which One Would You Choose?

Tue Feb 19, 2013 4:44 pm

I would push off which ever one of them wasn't up for a last chance roll about. That's assuming they didn't just gang up on me and shove me off for proposing such a thing.
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jfk69
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RE: Most Difficult Choice:Which One Would You Choose?

Tue Feb 19, 2013 4:51 pm

Is this thread circa 1996?
 
slider
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RE: Most Difficult Choice:Which One Would You Choose?

Tue Feb 19, 2013 5:17 pm

Have a threesome with both, then flip a coin for which one to shove off. 
 
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zckls04
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RE: Most Difficult Choice:Which One Would You Choose?

Tue Feb 19, 2013 5:52 pm

Quoting n229nw (Reply 4):
Not a difficult choice for me. I don't find either particularly attractive or interesting. But Jenny McCarthy is repsonsible for God knows how many kids getting sick and dying with her ridiculous campaign against childhood vaccinations. So Bye Bye Jenny.

Not to take this too far off topic (but I will), Jenny McCarthy should not be demonized (at least not for her anti-vaccine stance).

Blame Wakefield if you want- he was the one who endangered children's lives for his own financial benefit. Blame those with a scientific background who should have known better but decided instead to sacrifice lives on the alter of their own ego. I genuinely don't believe Jenny McCarthy is one of them though.

The scientific community IMO is far too quick to react dismissively to those without the necessary tools to discriminate between Wakefield's "science" and real science. Try looking at Jenny McCarthy as an angry and frightened mother, looking for answers where there are none. People take advantage of her to further their own aims, and promise all sorts of fanciful cures for her son. If it were my son, I'd probably want to believe them too.

I dislike Jenny McCarthy for her vapidity and her general personality (at least what I see of it on TV), but I don't think it's fair to blame her for XXXX number of deaths, nor do I think it furthers the image of scientists in general. This kind of lofty disdain is why the anti-science movement has become so strong in this country, and why such a tribal and internecine atmosphere exists.
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n229nw
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RE: Most Difficult Choice:Which One Would You Choose?

Tue Feb 19, 2013 11:51 pm

Quoting L0VE2FLY (Reply 5):
Quoting luv2fly (Reply 8):

Are you guys related? I think I just realized you are two different posters...

Quoting zckls04 (Reply 13):
Try looking at Jenny McCarthy as an angry and frightened mother, looking for answers where there are none.

Sure, I don't blame her personally for all those deaths. Parents make mistakes, too. I know, I am one. However, I do think that it is irresponsible to publicly endorse and campaign heavily for something so dangerous when you have no idea what you are talking about.

Quoting zckls04 (Reply 13):
This kind of lofty disdain is why the anti-science movement has become so strong in this country

Well, the anti-vaccine movement is the anti-science movement. The parents I know who are part of it also tend to believe in various conspiracy theories...

I don't see how disdaining a lack of real critical thinking is going to fuel the lack of critical thinking. I agree that people like Richard Dawkins can come off so cocky that they alienate. But there is a way to argue and be engaged without being so condescending. It's a debate that needs to be out in the open, in a case where it affects the health of young children. Not just, "well you believe what you want..."
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OA260
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RE: Most Difficult Choice:Which One Would You Choose?

Tue Feb 19, 2013 11:57 pm

Quoting luv2fly (Reply 8):

LMAO very true  
 
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RE: Most Difficult Choice:Which One Would You Choose?

Wed Feb 20, 2013 12:15 am

Quoting luv2fly (Reply 8):

I would thank my lucky stars for being gay and enjoy the boat all to myself.

Air heads like these might increase the number of people "coming out" to join you

Personally I think I'd jump and take my chances with the sharks.
 
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RE: Most Difficult Choice:Which One Would You Choose?

Wed Feb 20, 2013 1:32 am

Why would I have to choose someone to push off the boat? If all 3 of us are in it at one point there would seem to be need to dispose of one.
The day you stop learning is the day you should die.
 
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zckls04
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RE: Most Difficult Choice:Which One Would You Choose?

Wed Feb 20, 2013 1:48 am

Quoting n229nw (Reply 14):
I don't see how disdaining a lack of real critical thinking is going to fuel the lack of critical thinking. I agree that people like Richard Dawkins can come off so cocky that they alienate. But there is a way to argue and be engaged without being so condescending.

My point being that jennymccarthybodycount.com is not that way.

Quoting n229nw (Reply 14):
I don't see how disdaining a lack of real critical thinking is going to fuel the lack of critical thinking.

Disdain leads to complacency. Complacency leads to mistakes and mistakes lead to lack of public trust. Lack of public trust is why some parents I know believe fervently that the person they should trust when considering their child's health is a woman whose growler is googleable.

I think though that the target is often the wrong person. Jenny McCarthy should not be the focus of your ire, because she is essentially choosing between two different groups of indistinguishable people and trusting the one which gives her hope (which of course happens to be the wrong one). That is perfectly defensible. What is NOT defensible is:

1) Wakefield and his ilk
2) Broadcasters (CNN and FOX are the worst offenders) who consider that after speaking to a well-respected, educated person who has spent their life studying the subject, they should (in the name of "balance") turn to a Playboy model, and give equal weight to her views without any rigorous argument.

Quoting n229nw (Reply 14):
Well, the anti-vaccine movement is the anti-science movement. The parents I know who are part of it also tend to believe in various conspiracy theories...

Why do you suppose those beliefs have become more popular these days?
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EA CO AS
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RE: Most Difficult Choice:Which One Would You Choose?

Wed Feb 20, 2013 2:34 am

I'd choose Jenny McCarthy, hands-down. At age 40 she still puts most women to shame:

"In this present crisis, government is not the solution to our problem - government IS the problem." - Ronald Reagan

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qf002
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RE: Most Difficult Choice:Which One Would You Choose?

Wed Feb 20, 2013 5:58 am

It seems a bit counterproductive to push them both off -- I would flip a coin, push one off then kill the other for food.
 
Kiwirob
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RE: Most Difficult Choice:Which One Would You Choose?

Wed Feb 20, 2013 7:37 am

Quoting n229nw (Reply 4):
Kate Beckinsale

Yes please, especially if she is wearing the leather cat suit from Underworld!!!

I'd take Carmen, I don't want top go anywhere Jim Cary has gone before.
 
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EA CO AS
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RE: Most Difficult Choice:Which One Would You Choose?

Wed Feb 20, 2013 8:29 am

Quoting kiwirob (Reply 21):
I'd take Carmen, I don't want top go anywhere Jim Cary has gone before.

Uhm, ok...but yet you're somehow fine with going where Dennis Rodman and Dave Navarro (among others!) have been before?



And unlike Jenny with Jim Carrey, she wasn't just doing these human petri dishes - she MARRIED them!
"In this present crisis, government is not the solution to our problem - government IS the problem." - Ronald Reagan

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Kiwirob
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RE: Most Difficult Choice:Which One Would You Choose?

Wed Feb 20, 2013 2:57 pm

Quoting EA CO AS (Reply 22):

And unlike Jenny with Jim Carrey, she wasn't just doing these human petri dishes - she MARRIED them!

Yeah but Jim's a freak show on a different plane from Denis and Dave, they only look weird.
 
Boeing717200
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RE: Most Difficult Choice:Which One Would You Choose?

Wed Feb 20, 2013 3:37 pm

Quoting L0VE2FLY (Reply 5):

Kate Upton. Yummie and so far no baggage.
 
L0VE2FLY
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RE: Most Difficult Choice:Which One Would You Choose?

Thu Feb 21, 2013 8:22 pm

Quoting kiwirob (Reply 23):
Yeah but Jim's a freak show on a different plane from Denis and Dave, they only look weird.

I'm sure their weirdness goes far beyond just looks.
 
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DocLightning
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RE: Most Difficult Choice:Which One Would You Choose?

Fri Feb 22, 2013 4:54 pm

Quoting varigb707 (Thread starter):
You will have to choose one person (except you, of course) to push it off the boat. The other two are :
- Jenny MacCarthy and Carmen Elektra. Which one will you choose?

Jenny McCarthy. In an instant.

That woman is responsible for more morbidity and mortality with her anti-vaccine quasi-religious raving. She "cured" her son's autism that was caused by vaccines with "diet"?

Quoting zckls04 (Reply 13):
Try looking at Jenny McCarthy as an angry and frightened mother, looking for answers where there are none.

And you're wrong. There are plenty of answers. Answer #1) vaccines do not cause autism and are actually PROTECTIVE against neurodevelopmental delay. Answer #2) Nobody knows what causes autism, but it isn't vaccines and it can't be cured with diet.

Jenny McCarthy gets paid to give her anti-vaccine speeches. There is a lot of money in her "demand for safer vaccines" (they're safer than flying). She tells outright lies (there is no mercury in any childhood vaccine used in the US since 2002, but she claims there is). And she does it ALL for personal gain. She still defends Andrew Wakefield (who, BTW, was somehow let off the hook for assaulting autistic kids by doing endoscopies on them without proper sedation/analgesia).

Two months ago, I admitted a baby to the hospital with pertussis. I blame people like Ms. McCarthy for that infant's admission. She is the voice of the anti-science, anti-medicine, and anti-truth lobby for her own personal gain. She isn't "Angry and confused." She's just greedy.

And just to clarify: I am a pediatrician. I am an expert on vaccines.
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zckls04
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RE: Most Difficult Choice:Which One Would You Choose?

Fri Feb 22, 2013 5:57 pm

Quoting DocLightning (Reply 26):
And you're wrong. There are plenty of answers. Answer #1) vaccines do not cause autism and are actually PROTECTIVE against neurodevelopmental delay. Answer #2) Nobody knows what causes autism, but it isn't vaccines and it can't be cured with diet.

Not wrong- you just misunderstand me. She's looking for answers as to why her son is autistic, where there is no simple answer. Everybody always wants a reason why; people hate the idea that anything is down to the luck of the draw- they want somebody to blame. As you say there are plenty of answers about vaccines (although in pedantic mode I should point out that #2 is impossible to prove; the best you can say is that there is zero evidence diet has any effect).

Quoting DocLightning (Reply 26):
And just to clarify: I am a pediatrician. I am an expert on vaccines.

Doesn't necessarily make you an expert on human nature. Actually it doesn't make you an expert on vaccines either, but I'll take your word for it that you've done your homework.

Believe me I'm one of the biggest advocates for childhood vaccinations you could meet, however I don't hate Jenny McCarthy the way some do, in the same way I don't hate parents I know who are genuinely confused about all the information swirling around them and wonder whether there is any evidence that vaccines cause problems. Not having any training they don't know who to believe.

I remember many of my Pharmacology classes at University involved just sitting down with drug studies and picking holes in them, and as I'm sure you know it's often extremely difficult because studies which seem incredibly reasonable to the layperson are often so fundamentally flawed they prove nothing, or even the opposite of the truth. The problem is that in this age of information sharing, blogging etc the public get their hands on all these studies; stuff they can't possibly understand. This wouldn't be an issue if public trust in doctors and "Big Pharma" (a phrase I've learned to hate) was not at an all time low (in part due to the greater visibility of drug company and hospital malpractice in the age of the internet). Add in a largely ignorant media and it's a disaster.

It also doesn't help that vaccination has a low visible reward. All these diseases are far less prevalent than they used to be, and people often aren't able to connect that with vaccination, particularly when it comes to the concept of herd immunity. Again, without that trust in their doctor they're not going to be pushed in the right direction.

Quoting DocLightning (Reply 26):
(who, BTW, was somehow let off the hook for assaulting autistic kids by doing endoscopies on them without proper sedation/analgesia).

Now you have the right target. (And to be pedantic he was struck off for that, though that's hardly enough punishment). Fire at the wrong target and you just look like a bully, which has the opposite effect to the outcome you want.
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Kiwirob
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RE: Most Difficult Choice:Which One Would You Choose?

Fri Feb 22, 2013 6:48 pm

Quoting DocLightning (Reply 26):
Jenny McCarthy. In an instant.

Thinking about jumping back Doc?
 
PC12Fan
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RE: Most Difficult Choice:Which One Would You Choose?

Sat Feb 23, 2013 6:55 pm

Quoting varigb707 (Thread starter):
Most Difficult Choice:Which One Would You Choose?

As a friend of mine says - "why choose?!".  

As far as the other discussion of this thread, I will say that Jenny should know better by now. The original "study" on the vaccine link was a fraud and all other links have been debunked. So clearly she is in it for more than just her son.

Ironically, m younger son has a light form of Autism and his name is also Evan.
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DocLightning
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RE: Most Difficult Choice:Which One Would You Choose?

Mon Feb 25, 2013 3:25 am

Quoting zckls04 (Reply 27):
She's looking for answers as to why her son is autistic, where there is no simple answer.

No. I am disagreeing with this. She isn't looking for a damned thing. She's looking for fame and attention and adoration because she's a narcissistic woman who is willing to build her image on the bodies of dead babies. She's not the first and won't be the last, but that doesn't justify her.

If she were "looking for answers," she wouldn't be telling outright lies as facts. She wouldn't be demanding impossible standards of safety and continuously moving the goalposts. And besides, she claims that she "cured" her child with diet and chelation, so what further "answers" does she need?

Quoting zckls04 (Reply 27):
(although in pedantic mode I should point out that #2 is impossible to prove; the best you can say is that there is zero evidence diet has any effect).

They can both be statistically proven. There is evidence that vaccines prevent neurodevelopmental disorders. There is evidence that many of the dietary measures taken in attempts to "cure" autism actually cause harm.

The first was especially surprising, because the investigators were expecting to support the null hypothesis, not reject it. And they certainly weren't expecting to reject it in that direction! It took several meta-analyses before they actually started believing the data. They figured it was artifact.
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zckls04
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RE: Most Difficult Choice:Which One Would You Choose?

Mon Feb 25, 2013 5:57 am

Quoting DocLightning (Reply 30):
No. I am disagreeing with this. She isn't looking for a damned thing. She's looking for fame and attention and adoration because she's a narcissistic woman who is willing to build her image on the bodies of dead babies. She's not the first and won't be the last, but that doesn't justify her.

All supposition. You are ascribing motives to a woman you've never met and have no insight into. (FTR I believe she is stupid but I don't believe she is evil).

Quoting DocLightning (Reply 30):
If she were "looking for answers," she wouldn't be telling outright lies as facts.

If you can't tell the difference between truth and lies, then that argument falls to pieces. How effectively do you think Jenny McCarthy can evaluate a scientific trial?

Quoting DocLightning (Reply 30):
There is evidence that many of the dietary measures taken in attempts to "cure" autism actually cause harm.

That wouldn't surprise me. But that of course is statistically unrelated to whether diet cures or autism.
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mandala499
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RE: Most Difficult Choice:Which One Would You Choose?

Mon Feb 25, 2013 5:58 am

Quoting PC12Fan (Reply 29):
As a friend of mine says - "why choose?!".

I agree!

Quoting DocLightning (Reply 26):
Jenny McCarthy gets paid to give her anti-vaccine speeches. There is a lot of money in her "demand for safer vaccines" (they're safer than flying). She tells outright lies (there is no mercury in any childhood vaccine used in the US since 2002, but she claims there is). And she does it ALL for personal gain. She still defends Andrew Wakefield (who, BTW, was somehow let off the hook for assaulting autistic kids by doing endoscopies on them without proper sedation/analgesia).

OK, send her here... I can make a load of money by paying her to appear on TV for alternative medicine (read: scam), and maybe sell her spare time off too!    Am sure there are lots of takers here!
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L0VE2FLY
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RE: Most Difficult Choice:Which One Would You Choose?

Sat Mar 02, 2013 8:19 pm

Quoting n229nw (Reply 14):
Quoting L0VE2FLY (Reply 5):
Quoting luv2fly (Reply 8):

Are you guys related? I think I just realized you are two different posters...

No, we're not related. We just L0VE2FLY!  

Lucky for you this a.netter is not active:

http://www.airliners.net/profile/love2fly

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