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GrahamHill
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F1 2013: Malaysian Grand Prix

Thu Mar 21, 2013 1:31 pm

No rest for the F1 circus! After the conclusion of the Australian GP last weekend, teams are already in Sepang for the 15th edition of the Malaysian GP.

Sepang International Circuit

http://drivesafely.allianz.com/static/sites/default/images/2013/Frontend_Circuit_Graphics/02_Malaysia_E_72DPI.png_843180934.png


Lap data

Lap length: 5.543 km
Race laps: 56
Race distance: 310.408 km
Pole position: Right-hand side of the track
Lap record: 1’34.223 (211.783 kph) by Juan Pablo Montoya, 2004
Fastest lap: 1’32.582 (215.536 kph) by Fernando Alonso, 2005
Maximum speed: 303 kph
DRS zone/s (race): Pit straight and final straight
Distance from grid to turn one: 660m


Car performance

Full throttle: 65%
Longest flat-out section: 1029 m
Downforce level: High
Gear changes per lap: 52
Fuel use per lap: 2.4 kg
Time penalty per lap of fuel: 0.096s
"A learned fool is more foolish than an ignorant one" - Moliere
 
Kiwirob
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RE: F1 2013: Malaysian Grand Prix

Thu Mar 21, 2013 2:07 pm

I'd like to see Kimi win this one too!

I like the sanity that's been so evident in the F1 posts now that MadameC has stopped posting.
 
MIAspotter
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RE: F1 2013: Malaysian Grand Prix

Thu Mar 21, 2013 2:24 pm

Quoting KiwiRob (Reply 1):

I'd like to see Kimi win this one too!

Aghh! I wanna see a Ferrari win! just like last year´s season start where they had 6 different winners on the first races, anyhow I am quite happy with the progress of the Ferrari and I hope we get to see another exciting race, Sepang is usually a tough race (if its not unbearably hot and humid, it is pouring down) so let´s see what the weather brings for the race.

MIAspotter.
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GrahamHill
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RE: F1 2013: Malaysian Grand Prix

Thu Mar 21, 2013 7:41 pm

Quoting MIAspotter (Reply 2):
so let´s see what the weather brings for the race

There is always a high possibility of rain in Malaysia, which would be interesting for the race!

Also, the temperature will be a lot warmer than in Australia, so it might shuffle things around regarding tyre performance. Some teams who struggled with their tyres in Australia because of a "cold" track temp might be better in Sepang. Red Bull comes to mind.
"A learned fool is more foolish than an ignorant one" - Moliere
 
DiamondFlyer
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RE: F1 2013: Malaysian Grand Prix

Thu Mar 21, 2013 9:31 pm

Quoting GrahamHill (Reply 3):
There is always a high possibility of rain in Malaysia, which would be interesting for the race!

If the whole race is in the rain, I'd imagine we would see a finish much like the wet sessions in Australia. Wouldn't mind seeing Nico win again.

-DiamondFlyer

[Edited 2013-03-21 14:31:57]
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Charles79
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RE: F1 2013: Malaysian Grand Prix

Thu Mar 21, 2013 11:45 pm

Quoting MIAspotter (Reply 2):
just like last year´s season start where they had 6 different winners on the first races

My gut feeling is that we won't see that much variety at the front this year. The regulations were largely unchanged, meaning that the top teams with the larger budgets will be able to further widen the gap to the smaller outfits. Even though tyre wear remains an issue that some teams struggle with, most likely we will see Red Bull, Ferrari, and Lotus leading most races with Mercedes and McLaren picking up the odd victory.

Quoting GrahamHill (Reply 3):
There is always a high possibility of rain in Malaysia, which would be interesting for the race!

For this very reason I'm adding three hours to the DVR recording schedule...I've watched quite a few Malaysian GPs that didn't quite stick to the scheduled time!
 
B747forever
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RE: F1 2013: Malaysian Grand Prix

Fri Mar 22, 2013 5:00 am

Quoting Charles79 (Reply 5):
My gut feeling is that we won't see that much variety at the front this year. The regulations were largely unchanged, meaning that the top teams with the larger budgets will be able to further widen the gap to the smaller outfits. Even though tyre wear remains an issue that some teams struggle with, most likely we will see Red Bull, Ferrari, and Lotus leading most races with Mercedes and McLaren picking up the odd victory.

And it will most likely be between Alonso, Kimi and Vettel.
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bill142
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RE: F1 2013: Malaysian Grand Prix

Fri Mar 22, 2013 9:04 am

Quoting B747forever (Reply 6):

if that's the case go Kimi. #anyonebutvettel
 
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GrahamHill
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RE: F1 2013: Malaysian Grand Prix

Fri Mar 22, 2013 1:53 pm

Free practice 1:

1 M Webber (AUS) Red Bull 1'36.935
2 KM Räikkönen (FIN) Lotus 1'37.003
3 S Vettel (GER) Red Bull 1'37.104
4 F Alonso (ESP) Ferrari 1'37.319
5 N Rosberg (GER) Mercedes 1'37.588
6 A Sutil (GER) Force India 1'37.769
7 F Massa (BRA) Ferrari 1'37.771
8 P di Resta (GBR) Force India 1'37.773
9 LC Hamilton (GBR) Mercedes 1'37.840
10 R Grosjean (FRA) Lotus 1'37.915
11 J Button (GBR) McLaren 1'38.173
12 P Maldonado (VEN) Williams 1'38.673
13 S Perez (MEX) McLaren 1'38.830
14 N Hülkenberg (GER) Sauber 1'39.054
15 E Gutiérrez (MEX) Sauber 1'39.204
16 V Bottas (FIN) Williams 1'39.208
17 JE Vergne (FRA) Toro Rosso 1'39.284
18 D Ricciardo (AUS) Toro Rosso 1'39.567
19 G van der Garde (NED) Caterham 1'40.728
20 J Bianchi (FRA) Marussia 1'40.996
21 C Pic (FRA) Caterham 1'41.163
22 M Chilton (GBR) Marussia 1'41.513


Free practice 2:

1 KM Räikkönen (FIN) Lotus 1'36.569
2 S Vettel (GER) Red Bull 1'36.588
3 F Massa (BRA) Ferrari 1'36.661
4 F Alonso (ESP) Ferrari 1'36.985
5 M Webber (AUS) Red Bull 1'37.026
6 R Grosjean (FRA) Lotus 1'37.206
7 N Rosberg (GER) Mercedes 1'37.448
8 P di Resta (GBR) Force India 1'37.571
9 LC Hamilton (GBR) Mercedes 1'37.574
10 A Sutil (GER) Force India 1'37.788
11 S Perez (MEX) McLaren 1'37.838
12 J Button (GBR) McLaren 1'37.865
13 N Hülkenberg (GER) Sauber 1'38.068
14 E Gutiérrez (MEX) Sauber 1'38.645
15 JE Vergne (FRA) Toro Rosso 1'38.738
16 P Maldonado (VEN) Williams 1'38.801
17 D Ricciardo (AUS) Toro Rosso 1'38.904
18 J Bianchi (FRA) Marussia 1'39.508
19 V Bottas (FIN) Williams 1'39.660
20 C Pic (FRA) Caterham 1'40.757
21 G van der Garde (NED) Caterham 1'40.768
22 M Chilton (GBR) Marussia 1'41.438

Kimi was the fastest on Friday
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CXB77L
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RE: F1 2013: Malaysian Grand Prix

Fri Mar 22, 2013 3:03 pm

Quoting GrahamHill (Reply 8):
Kimi was the fastest on Friday

Still early days, but the Lotus is looking extremely quick. Raikkonen could be in for an extremely competitive season.
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Charles79
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RE: F1 2013: Malaysian Grand Prix

Sat Mar 23, 2013 12:09 am

Quoting B747forever (Reply 6):
And it will most likely be between Alonso, Kimi and Vettel.

You are probably right! Those are my three top drivers and, to be honest, I'd be happy to see any of them win the title this year.

Quoting CXB77L (Reply 9):
Still early days, but the Lotus is looking extremely quick. Raikkonen could be in for an extremely competitive season.

And it would be a great season if we could listen to his radio for the entire race!
 
CXB77L
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RE: F1 2013: Malaysian Grand Prix

Sat Mar 23, 2013 2:21 pm

Vettel tops the chart for both P3 and Qualifying. It was a rather interesting qualifying session with the rain coming towards the end of Q2 mixing things up. Strange to see that the Red Bulls were off the pace until the rain came - even Vettel admitted that had it not been wet he wouldn't have been able to get pole.

The ever present storm is forecast for tomorrow, so I guess we'll just have to wait and see what happens.

Practice 3 results:

Pos Driver Team Time Gap Laps
1. Sebastian Vettel Red Bull-Renault 1m36.435 20
2. Lewis Hamilton Mercedes 1m36.568s + 0.133s 17
3. Adrian Sutil Force India-Mercedes 1m36.588s + 0.153s 19
4. Mark Webber Red Bull-Renault 1m36.613s + 0.178s 20
5. Kimi Raikkonen Lotus-Renault 1m36.806s + 0.371s 19
6. Paul di Resta Force India-Mercedes 1m36.807s + 0.372s 18
7. Jenson Button McLaren-Mercedes 1m36.822s + 0.387s 16
8. Felipe Massa Ferrari 1m36.946s + 0.511s 14
9. Nico Rosberg Mercedes 1m36.949s + 0.514s 24
10. Fernando Alonso Ferrari 1m37.302s + 0.867s 14
11. Pastor Maldonado Williams-Renault 1m37.359s + 0.924s 11
12. Sergio Perez McLaren-Mercedes 1m37.538s + 1.103s 12
13. Nico Hulkenberg Sauber-Ferrari 1m37.685s + 1.250s 23
14. Romain Grosjean Lotus-Renault 1m37.690s + 1.255s 14
15. Valtteri Bottas Williams-Renault 1m37.936s + 1.501s 16
16. Esteban Gutierrez Sauber-Ferrari 1m38.294s + 1.859s 17
17. Jean-Eric Vergne Toro Rosso-Ferrari 1m38.376s + 1.941s 16
18. Daniel Ricciardo Toro Rosso-Ferrari 1m38.425s + 1.990s 15
19. Charles Pic Caterham-Renault 1m38.995s + 2.560s 18
20. Jules Bianchi Marussia-Cosworth 1m39.717s + 3.282s 21
21. Giedo van der Garde Caterham-Renault 1m40.209s + 3.774s 18
22. Max Chilton Marussia-Cosworth 1m40.495s + 4.060s 18

Qualifying results:

Pos Driver Team Time Gap
1. Sebastian Vettel Red Bull-Renault 1m49.674s
2. Felipe Massa Ferrari 1m50.587s + 0.913s
3. Fernando Alonso Ferrari 1m50.727s + 1.053s
4. Lewis Hamilton Mercedes 1m51.699s + 2.025s
5. Mark Webber Red Bull-Renault 1m52.244s + 2.570s
6. Nico Rosberg Mercedes 1m52.519s + 2.845s
7. Kimi Raikkonen Lotus-Renault 1m52.970s + 3.296s
8. Jenson Button McLaren-Mercedes 1m53.175s + 3.501s
9. Adrian Sutil Force India-Mercedes 1m53.439s + 3.765s
10. Sergio Perez McLaren-Mercedes 1m54.136s + 4.462s
Q2 cut-off time: 1m37.342s Gap **
11. Romain Grosjean Lotus-Renault 1m37.636s + 1.446s
12. Nico Hulkenberg Sauber-Ferrari 1m38.125s + 1.935s
13. Daniel Ricciardo Toro Rosso-Ferrari 1m38.822s + 2.632s
14. Esteban Gutierrez Sauber-Ferrari 1m39.221s + 3.031s
15. Paul di Resta Force India-Mercedes 1m44.509s + 8.319s
16. Pastor Maldonado Williams-Renault no time
Q1 cut-off time: 1m37.931s Gap *
17. Jean-Eric Vergne Toro Rosso-Ferrari 1m38.157s + 1.348s
18. Valtteri Bottas Williams-Renault 1m38.207s + 1.398s
19. Jules Bianchi Marussia-Cosworth 1m38.434s + 1.625s
20. Charles Pic Caterham-Renault 1m39.314s + 2.505s
21. Max Chilton Marussia-Cosworth 1m39.672s + 2.863s
22. Giedo van der Garde Caterham-Renault 1m39.932s + 3.123s
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B747forever
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RE: F1 2013: Malaysian Grand Prix

Sat Mar 23, 2013 4:37 pm

Quoting CXB77L (Reply 11):

Wow, has Massa got his act together, or what?

Hopefully he will be able to carry on like this for the rest of the season.
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Stealthz
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RE: F1 2013: Malaysian Grand Prix

Sun Mar 24, 2013 8:35 am

Disclaimer.. This is not an Anti Ferrari rant!!
I would say this about any team that made this call.

They should have their F1 license suspended.. or cancelled!!

Letting FA pass the pit entrance with such an obviously failed front wing was stupid at best, criminal more likely.
That sort of failure kills people and it is only good luck that the situation ended as benignly as it did

End rant!

LH .. needs to take a good look at his pay cheque and commit to memory who pays him.. pulling into the McLaren pit is a fail that many will not let him forget soon

[Edited 2013-03-24 02:16:40]
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flood
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RE: F1 2013: Malaysian Grand Prix

Sun Mar 24, 2013 9:19 am

Quoting stealthz (Reply 13):
Letting FA pass the pit entrance with such an obviously failed front wing was stupid at best, criminal more likely.

Was still amusing to watch though  

So whose decision was it? Commentary from the pits on NBCsports suggested Ferrari were ready and waiting in pit lane and it may have been Alonso's decision to stay out another lap so he could swap the nose and put on slicks.
 
MIAspotter
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RE: F1 2013: Malaysian Grand Prix

Sun Mar 24, 2013 9:56 am

Quoting stealthz (Reply 13):

I wouldn't go as far as to remove their licence, maybe an investigation, I do agree it was a stupid move, he should have gone in to replace the nose, specially knowing that the aerodynamic loads would make mince meat of it.

Funny watching HAM going into the Macca boxes LOL! hey guys howareya....

Stupid move by Vettel on Webber, some strong words at the end of the race!

MIAspotter.
Nos vamos de Vueling?
 
MIAspotter
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RE: F1 2013: Malaysian Grand Prix

Sun Mar 24, 2013 10:25 am

Akward podium "celebration" you could cut the tension with a knife!

MIAspotter
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CXB77L
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RE: F1 2013: Malaysian Grand Prix

Sun Mar 24, 2013 10:43 am

Quoting MIAspotter (Reply 15):
Funny watching HAM going into the Macca boxes LOL! hey guys howareya....

Yes, that was hilarious! Best moment of the race for me.

Quoting MIAspotter (Reply 15):
Stupid move by Vettel on Webber, some strong words at the end of the race!

Strongly disagree that it was stupid.

Team orders suck, period. I don't care which driver it's for or against, there shouldn't be any team orders unless and until one driver is mathematically out of the running for the championship. All 22 drivers have a mathematical chance of winning so there shouldn't be any team orders at all. I think the right driver won, but Rosberg should've been third, because Rosberg was clearly faster towards the end. The fact that Hamilton was told to slow down to save fuel is irrelevant, as is the fact that Red Bull told Webber to turn the engine down.

What Vettel showed when passing Webber was a sublime display of his driving talent, putting to bed any doubts that he has an inability to overtake; and that he is still as determined as ever to win his fourth title. Vettel's pass on Webber was all fair and above board; there was no illegal blocking nor was there any contact between the two cars. It was good, hard and fair racing. Something that Rosberg was unfortunately not allowed to do, but should have been. Rosberg was robbed of his podium finish by the team that he has served well since 2010. That is the real tragedy.
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flood
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RE: F1 2013: Malaysian Grand Prix

Sun Mar 24, 2013 11:09 am

Quoting CXB77L (Reply 17):
Strongly disagree that it was stupid.

  

Vettel won the title last year by three points, yet for some reason people expect him to voluntarily give up seven this race. Yes, it was risky - but that's racing - and it takes two to tango.

Quoting MIAspotter (Reply 15):
Stupid move by Vettel on Webber, some strong words at the end of the race!

If you can't keep up, get out of the way.

The last thing we need is more of this Hamilton / Rosberg crap.
 
MIAspotter
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RE: F1 2013: Malaysian Grand Prix

Sun Mar 24, 2013 12:07 pm

Quoting CXB77L (Reply 17):
Quoting flood (Reply 18):

His move on Webber was totally uncalled for next to the pit wall, very dangerous and risky it's a very dirty area and if any of the cars loose grip there the result could have been nasty.

If you cant keep up get out of the way mentality could apply if Vettel was clearly faster than Webber, then wait for a more suitable area of the circuit to make a clean move,, not risking it there with the danger of making contact and ruining both yours and Webbers race.

Even the team told him it was ridiculous, he was given an order and totally ignored it.

Just my 2 cents.
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CXB77L
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RE: F1 2013: Malaysian Grand Prix

Sun Mar 24, 2013 12:12 pm

Quoting MIAspotter (Reply 19):
His move on Webber was totally uncalled for next to the pit wall, very dangerous and risky it's a very dirty area and if any of the cars loose grip there the result could have been nasty.

If you cant keep up get out of the way mentality could apply if Vettel was clearly faster than Webber, then wait for a more suitable area of the circuit to make a clean move,, not risking it there with the danger of making contact and ruining both yours and Webbers race.

He had no choice but to be there. Webber moved to the centre of the track to defend his position, which he was very much entitled to do. Vettel could've moved to the outside, which meant forfeiting turn 1 to Webber and possibly getting him at turn 2, or else going to the inside and make the move into turn 1 stick.
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Stealthz
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RE: F1 2013: Malaysian Grand Prix

Sun Mar 24, 2013 12:18 pm

CXB77L-
Fom the radio conversations and the body language after the race I don't think the team agrees with you.
Can't recall ever seeing or hearing a team management less happy after a 1-2 result in a GP

Pretty sure we will hear soon from the Mad Dr M how MW was totally at fault for endangering the ordained supremacy of the chosen one!!

[Edited 2013-03-24 05:19:40]
If your camera sends text messages, that could explain why your photos are rubbish!
 
Stealthz
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RE: F1 2013: Malaysian Grand Prix

Sun Mar 24, 2013 12:28 pm

So the petulant little prat... admits his mistake... as if it was a mistake!!!

Quote:
"We should have stayed in the positions we were in. I didn't ignore it [the order] on purpose but I messed up in that situation.

Getting a little tired of his attitude, time he grew up!
If your camera sends text messages, that could explain why your photos are rubbish!
 
CXB77L
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RE: F1 2013: Malaysian Grand Prix

Sun Mar 24, 2013 12:30 pm

Quoting stealthz (Reply 21):
Fom the radio conversations and the body language after the race I don't think the team agrees with you.
Can't recall ever seeing or hearing a team management less happy after a 1-2 result in a GP

They weren't happy because Vettel disobeyed a team order to hold station which I don't think should have been given in the first place.

Vettel was no less deserving of his victory than Rosberg was deserving of third place. Both drivers were quicker than their teammates, and both were told not to attack. I don't think that's how racing should be conducted.
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racko
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RE: F1 2013: Malaysian Grand Prix

Sun Mar 24, 2013 12:44 pm

Finally drivers ignoring stupid team orders.

That untamable desire to win is what divides the greats like Prost, Senna, Schumacher, Vettel and Alonso from the mediocre drivers like Rosberg and Webber.
 
Stealthz
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RE: F1 2013: Malaysian Grand Prix

Sun Mar 24, 2013 12:47 pm

CX.. the big thing for teams are their manufacturers points, the drivers and much of the public think the important thing is the WDC, sorry it is not the WDC that pays the bills.
The driver is paid by the team to maximise the points gained by the team, when a driver jeopardises that then he has screwed up.
You may not agree but that is how it is!

SV came very close to costing RBR 43 points and that is unaccepptable.. that is what the team is unhappy about!.

He had instructions to maintain that points situations and he decided he was above that!

And this BS from the wunderkinder...

Quote:
"I'm not entirely happy -- I think I did a big mistake," Vettel said. "We should have stayed in the positions that we were in. I didn't ignore it on purpose but I messed up in that situation and obviously took the lead from Mark.

Sorry Seb you tool... you cannot get into the vicious knife fight you started by mistake.

[Edited 2013-03-24 06:14:36]
If your camera sends text messages, that could explain why your photos are rubbish!
 
CXB77L
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RE: F1 2013: Malaysian Grand Prix

Sun Mar 24, 2013 1:08 pm

Quoting racko (Reply 24):
Finally drivers ignoring stupid team orders.

That untamable desire to win is what divides the greats like Prost, Senna, Schumacher, Vettel and Alonso from the mediocre drivers like Rosberg and Webber.

Agree to a point. I wouldn't call Rosberg "mediocre", I believe he is a future world champion who had been held back unfairly by his team.

Quoting stealthz (Reply 25):
The driver is paid by the team to maximise the points gained by the team, when a driver jeopardises that then he has screwed up.
You may not agree but that is how it is!

SV came very close to costing RBR 43 points and that is unaccepptable.. that is what the team is unhappy about!.

I agree that the team's aim is to maximise its points, but Vettel didn't cost Red Bull 43 points.

Button and Hamilton showed several times when they were at McLaren that teammates can fight each other without costing the team anything. I don't see why it has to be different at any other team.
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GIANCAVIA
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RE: F1 2013: Malaysian Grand Prix

Sun Mar 24, 2013 1:09 pm

Quoting stealthz (Reply 25):
He had instructions to maintain that points situations and he decided he was above that!

Boohoo he decided not to take part in match fixing. He should be applauded, Team orders are not what racing is about.. the fastest guy should win. Not some pre determined team positioning. It should be considered cheating and removed from the sport.

I dont even understand how it is allowed, What if people have bet millions on vettel to be fastest and win the race. They would all lose because its Red Bulls Managers decision that the slower guy should win to play it safe for the team? Its a disgrace.
 
Stealthz
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RE: F1 2013: Malaysian Grand Prix

Sun Mar 24, 2013 1:21 pm

Quoting Giancavia (Reply 27):

Boohoo he decided not to take part in match fixing.

Whatever you think about race fixing, and I am against betting on motor racing, there are situations where teams need to make a call, MW listened to them SV didn't!!

Just showed(again) a side of his character that is not that pleasant.. bit like a recently retired countryman!!
If your camera sends text messages, that could explain why your photos are rubbish!
 
CXB77L
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RE: F1 2013: Malaysian Grand Prix

Sun Mar 24, 2013 1:25 pm

Quoting stealthz (Reply 28):
there are situations where teams need to make a call

Yes, there are, when one driver is mathematically out of the running for the title while the other is a title contender. Not in Round 2 of the championship when it's still wide open.

Had this been Round 19 and Vettel can't win the title mathematically but Webber still can, I'd support the call for Vettel to hold station. I think Vettel wouldn't attack Webber under such circumstances anyway.

[Edited 2013-03-24 06:26:26]
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Stealthz
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RE: F1 2013: Malaysian Grand Prix

Sun Mar 24, 2013 1:34 pm

CX..

The team is the thing, they made a call,the impetuous child that thinks of no one else but himself ignored it!!

Quite possibly costing the team 43 points.. he didn't.. more to good luck than anything else.

Time he grew up!

Despite his protestations, he made no mistake, he deliberately chose to risk the teams position out of pure hubris.

Red Bull won the 21012 Constructors championship by 60 points, indications so far are that this season may be much closer... the 43 points that SV nearly threw down the drain are not important??

Or are you such a SV fanboi that you agree with his plaintive radio call about MW holding him up when he could not get within 3.7sec of his team mate.. had to laugh at that!!

[Edited 2013-03-24 06:40:34]
If your camera sends text messages, that could explain why your photos are rubbish!
 
CXB77L
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RE: F1 2013: Malaysian Grand Prix

Sun Mar 24, 2013 1:37 pm

Quoting stealthz (Reply 30):
Quite possibly costing th team 43 points.. he didn't.. more to good luck than anything else.

More like good driving. Notwithstanding the breach of team orders, Vettel's overtaking move on Webber was superb driving on his part.
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Stealthz
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RE: F1 2013: Malaysian Grand Prix

Sun Mar 24, 2013 1:42 pm

Quoting CXB77L (Reply 31):
Vettel's overtaking move on Webber was superb driving on his part.

Actually was good driving on both drivers part.. lesser drivers would have likely ended in someone getting hurt!
If your camera sends text messages, that could explain why your photos are rubbish!
 
racko
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RE: F1 2013: Malaysian Grand Prix

Sun Mar 24, 2013 3:18 pm

Quoting stealthz (Reply 28):
Just showed(again) a side of his character that is not that pleasant.. bit like a recently retired countryman!!

You mean a certain record breaking 7 time world champion?

Quoting CXB77L (Reply 26):
I wouldn't call Rosberg "mediocre", I believe he is a future world champion who had been held back unfairly by his team.

Who lets himself be held back by the team. Do you think Schumacher would have let it go? Senna? Prost? Alonso?

They wouldn't have. They were were/are ruthless. They're in it to win it, all else be damned.
 
flood
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RE: F1 2013: Malaysian Grand Prix

Sun Mar 24, 2013 3:23 pm

Quoting stealthz (Reply 28):
Whatever you think about race fixing, and I am against betting on motor racing, there are situations where teams need to make a call, MW listened to them SV didn't!!

I could've sworn you said something about jeopardizing team points - and in that regard both drivers stubbornly played their part, as Webber was hardly listening to anyone when he took on the fight through the corners. Both will get an earful. Vettel obviously more so, but neither were team angels.

Quoting stealthz (Reply 30):
Red Bull won the 21012 Constructors championship by 60 points, indications so far are that this season may be much closer... the 43 points that SV nearly threw down the drain are not important??

And again, Vettel only won the 2012 championship by 3 points and now his team is on the radio telling him to voluntarily give up 7. Not happening. I'm no fan of team orders, but from a team perspective and given the two titles at stake - it would have made far more sense for them to tell Webber to move over.
 
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scbriml
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RE: F1 2013: Malaysian Grand Prix

Sun Mar 24, 2013 4:49 pm

Quoting stealthz (Reply 30):
more to good luck than anything else

I'm sure Webber could have made it harder as well.

Quoting CXB77L (Reply 31):
Vettel's overtaking move on Webber was superb driving on his part

And in no small part to Webber's cooperation.

Quoting racko (Reply 33):
Do you think Schumacher would have let it go?

He did when told to.

A lot of people seem to be forgetting that this is a TEAM sport. The teams pay the drivers' wages and as such the drivers should follow team orders. Vettel clearly didn't and will, at some point, get some payback.
Time flies like an arrow. Fruit flies like a banana!
There are 10 types of people in the World - those that understand binary and those that don't.
 
flipdewaf
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RE: F1 2013: Malaysian Grand Prix

Sun Mar 24, 2013 6:14 pm

Not sure why Webber would have thought vettel would have tried to pass him so probably didn't try defending as hard and took as few risks ss he could untill it was too late. Perhaps it was Webbers fault for thinking vettel had grown up.

As for Hamilton and Rosberg it was my understanding that they were both to save fuel and if Rosenberg went any faster I.e. he overtook Hamilton, that he would be in danger of running out of fuel as well. Fortunately Rosberg is able to understand that there are other issues outside of himself that can be more important.

The race was good today but will be remembered for the wrong reasons.

Fred
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VC-10
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RE: F1 2013: Malaysian Grand Prix

Sun Mar 24, 2013 6:16 pm

Quoting flood (Reply 34):
Vettel only won the 2012 championship by 3 points and now his team is on the radio telling him to voluntarily give up 7. Not happening. I'm no fan of team orders, but from a team perspective and given the two titles at stake - it would have made far more sense for them to tell Webber to move over.

The teams are only interested in the Constructors Championship, winning the Drivers Championship is of secondary importance to the teams.

Didier Pironi not following team orders was the root cause of Gilles Villeneuve's death.
 
Kiwirob
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RE: F1 2013: Malaysian Grand Prix

Sun Mar 24, 2013 7:06 pm

The worst thing about this race for me was the relatively empty stands, sad when there are tracks in Europe and other motorsport mad locations where the stands would be at capacity.
 
Charles79
Posts: 1117
Joined: Sat Mar 03, 2007 12:35 pm

RE: F1 2013: Malaysian Grand Prix

Sun Mar 24, 2013 9:00 pm

I knew this race was going to "agitate" the fans!

Quoting stealthz (Reply 13):
Letting FA pass the pit entrance with such an obviously failed front wing was stupid at best, criminal more likely.

Reading the reports I'm still not clear if the decision to stay out was Alonso's or Ferrari's. Either way, I'd label it as a stupid mistake instead of a criminal offense. It was a tactical call - why bring him in to change the nose when he'd have to come in 3 laps later anyway to get rid of the intermediates. I think most teams would have made the same call.

Quoting MIAspotter (Reply 15):
Funny watching HAM going into the Macca boxes LOL! hey guys howareya....

That was certainly a hilarious moment during the race and a reminder that you can't give up old habits so easily!

Quoting CXB77L (Reply 17):
Team orders suck, period.
Quoting racko (Reply 24):
Finally drivers ignoring stupid team orders.

As a fan I agree with these two comments. I do understand the "one-team" concept and that the team would rather have two cars cross the finish line rather than have bits of shredded carbon fibre littered on the track. However, you follow the race because you want to watch a race! Perhaps the teams should only insist on team orders during the last 5 laps of the race during the last quarter of the season but this early on let them play, they are professional drivers not rookies!

All in all a VERY exciting race!
 
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GrahamHill
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RE: F1 2013: Malaysian Grand Prix

Sun Mar 24, 2013 11:01 pm

I did not have time to watch the race, but I have it recorded so I'll give my opinion later this week. It looks like something interesting has happened 
"A learned fool is more foolish than an ignorant one" - Moliere
 
bill142
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RE: F1 2013: Malaysian Grand Prix

Mon Mar 25, 2013 12:03 am

Quoting flood (Reply 34):

And again, Vettel only won the 2012 championship by 3 points and now his team is on the radio telling him to voluntarily give up 7. Not happening. I'm no fan of team orders, but from a team perspective and given the two titles at stake - it would have made far more sense for them to tell Webber to move over.

Did you stop to consider that maybe they want Webber to win the championship?

Quoting CXB77L (Reply 17):
as is the fact that Red Bull told Webber to turn the engine down.

They also tole Vettel to turn down his engine. Vettel needs to be sat out for a race or two for a lack of sportsmanship.
 
racko
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RE: F1 2013: Malaysian Grand Prix

Mon Mar 25, 2013 12:12 am

Quoting Bill142 (Reply 41):
Did you stop to consider that maybe they want Webber to win the championship?

Vettel sure as hell doesn't want Webber to win the championship.

By the way, here is a funny quote from crybaby Webber:

http://www.autosport.com/news/report.php/id/93001

"Of course I ignored the team because I wanted to try and get a place."
 
ltbewr
Posts: 12502
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RE: F1 2013: Malaysian Grand Prix

Mon Mar 25, 2013 12:24 am

I have been watching F-1 racing on TV for 45 years. I despise 'team orders' in F-1 unless very late in the season and to assure the 'better' driver to win the driver's championship. In American racing, especially IndyCar and NASCAR, we rarely see 'team orders' except to protect a position of a driver in or close to the drivers' Championship lead. Yes, I understand that in some situations, the passing driver could put both at risk of crashing and losing points. Ask the fans in the stands and at home and they want passing and borderline dangerous driving - no 'team orders' taking away the real racing that should be.
 
BHMNONREV
Posts: 1209
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RE: F1 2013: Malaysian Grand Prix

Mon Mar 25, 2013 8:53 am

Quoting stealthz (Reply 25):
CX.. the big thing for teams are their manufacturers points, the drivers and much of the public think the important thing is the WDC, sorry it is not the WDC that pays the bills.
The driver is paid by the team to maximise the points gained by the team, when a driver jeopardises that then he has screwed up.

I think this is the point that is lost on several of the posters here. The teams are thinking constructors, drivers not. But at the end of the day it's the team that pays the bills and no one else. You may not like it but that's just how it is, and F-1 has always been that way. If SV or anyone else out there does not want to follow orders from the team then I'm sure they would be welcomed at some of the less competitive teams on the circuit to drive however they wish.

No different than given "orders" from your own boss, where in most cases insubordination gets you canned. Not in F-1, and certainly not in Vettel's case.

In my memory, 1978 comes to mind. Colin Chapman at JPS Lotus was a team first, with a clear #1 and #2 drivers kind of guy. Mario Andretti was his "guy" and his number one when Ronnie Peterson was clearly the better driver that year. In a more competitive setting, Andretti does not win but one or two races and certainly not a championship. I remember sitting at Hockenheim that year and seeing RP just tear out into the lead by the end of the first lap. But by lap two MA was in the lead with RP second. "Team Orders" I suppose. Somewhere Chapman is having convulsions in his grave over yesterday's race...lol
 
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moo
Posts: 4175
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RE: F1 2013: Malaysian Grand Prix

Mon Mar 25, 2013 10:30 am

Quoting Charles79 (Reply 39):
Reading the reports I'm still not clear if the decision to stay out was Alonso's or Ferrari's.

I've read articles which say both tbh - but the latest is that Ferrari is "taking the blame" for it. So no surprise there, Alonso once again comes out smelling of roses.

Quoting Charles79 (Reply 39):
Either way, I'd label it as a stupid mistake instead of a criminal offense. It was a tactical call - why bring him in to change the nose when he'd have to come in 3 laps later anyway to get rid of the intermediates.

Because safety is also a factor - what if he had collected Webber when his car ingested the front wing? What if he had collected two or three cars? What if someone had got hurt?

This brings to mind that race when Ferrari were allowed to race a car which had severe exhaust damage, with parts flapping around - and a major part was eventually flung off into the stands...
 
CXB77L
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RE: F1 2013: Malaysian Grand Prix

Mon Mar 25, 2013 12:21 pm

Quoting scbriml (Reply 35):
And in no small part to Webber's cooperation.

What co-operation? Webber defended his position to the best of his ability. He certainly didn't wave Vettel by.

Quoting flipdewaf (Reply 36):
Not sure why Webber would have thought vettel would have tried to pass him so probably didn't try defending as hard

Webber did try to defend his position. He didn't make it easy for Vettel to get by. I don't know where you got this idea that Vettel caught Webber unawares. Even if Vettel had been given the order to hold station, which I don't dispute, Webber had to have known simply by looking at his mirrors that Vettel was going to attack, in spite of team orders.

Quoting Bill142 (Reply 41):
Vettel needs to be sat out for a race or two for a lack of sportsmanship.

What lack of sportsmanship? Please point out the rule in the FIA Formula 1 Sporting Regulations which state that a driver must follow the instructions of the team.

Red Bull would be doing themselves a disservice if they were to let Vettel sit out a race. Vettel is the best driver at Red Bull by far, so not having him on the track is shooting their own chances of a constructors' championship in the foot. The best thing for the team now is to move on.

Quoting BHMNONREV (Reply 44):
The teams are thinking constructors, drivers not.

It doesn't matter to the team which order the drivers finish in, as long as it's a 1-2. Button and Hamilton proved when they were a McLaren that they could fight each other on the track without hitting each other or otherwise causing damage to the team's chances of scoring maximum points. There's no reason to enforce a "hold station" order even if they wanted to preserve the points. Let them race, and may the best driver win.

Quoting BHMNONREV (Reply 44):
No different than given "orders" from your own boss, where in most cases insubordination gets you canned. Not in F-1, and certainly not in Vettel's case.

There's a good reason for that. By letting Vettel go, Red Bull will be letting one of the best drivers in F1 leave for another team and thus damaging their own chance of winning titles. It's not going to happen.
Boeing 777 fanboy
 
BHMNONREV
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RE: F1 2013: Malaysian Grand Prix

Mon Mar 25, 2013 12:49 pm

Quoting CXB77L (Reply 46):
Red Bull would be doing themselves a disservice if they were to let Vettel sit out a race. Vettel is the best driver at Red Bull by far, so not having him on the track is shooting their own chances of a constructors' championship in the foot. The best thing for the team now is to move on.

No argument there. Red Bull gains nothing by sitting him out in this case.

Quoting CXB77L (Reply 46):
It doesn't matter to the team which order the drivers finish in, as long as it's a 1-2. Button and Hamilton proved when they were a McLaren that they could fight each other on the track without hitting each other or otherwise causing damage to the team's chances of scoring maximum points. There's no reason to enforce a "hold station" order even if they wanted to preserve the points. Let them race, and may the best driver win.

Different team, different philosophy.

Quoting CXB77L (Reply 46):
There's a good reason for that. By letting Vettel go, Red Bull will be letting one of the best drivers in F1 leave for another team and thus damaging their own chance of winning titles. It's not going to happen.

At the end of the day, Vettel and any other driver needs to realize that no driver is bigger than the team. And to his reluctant credit Rosberg realized this during yesterday's race. And during the rest of this season, it would not surprise me at some point if Webber decides to "even the score", teammates be damned. My point is Vettel could come to regret what he did yesterday.
 
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scbriml
Posts: 13702
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RE: F1 2013: Malaysian Grand Prix

Mon Mar 25, 2013 1:43 pm

Quoting CXB77L (Reply 46):
Please point out the rule in the FIA Formula 1 Sporting Regulations which state that a driver must follow the instructions of the team.

I'd be very surprised if the driver's contract doesn't specify that team orders must be followed when issued. If I was a team principle, I'd certainly want it in my drivers' contracts.

Quoting CXB77L (Reply 46):
Button and Hamilton proved when they were a McLaren that they could fight each other on the track without hitting each other or otherwise causing damage to the team's chances of scoring maximum points.

Only until a certain point in the race (typically the last round of pit stops). After that they would be asked to "maintain station".

Quoting BHMNONREV (Reply 47):
And during the rest of this season, it would not surprise me at some point if Webber decides to "even the score", teammates be damned. My point is Vettel could come to regret what he did yesterday.

One can but only hope. Revenge is a dish best eaten cold.
Time flies like an arrow. Fruit flies like a banana!
There are 10 types of people in the World - those that understand binary and those that don't.
 
TheSultanOfWing
Posts: 141
Joined: Fri Dec 21, 2012 4:33 pm

RE: F1 2013: Malaysian Grand Prix

Mon Mar 25, 2013 1:46 pm

Not good from Sebastian Vettel, ignoring orders; but a mind boggling strategy from RBR.
Stopping your best championship contender of winning a race with 20 laps to go!??
Those points might come in handy for Vettel, looking at the Ferrari's speed this early in the season.

Quoting Bill142 (Reply 41):

Did you stop to consider that maybe they want Webber to win the championship?

The statistics are not on Webber's side mate; he is the obvious number 2. I can't see Webber beating Alonso.
From RBR's point of view I imagined they would support the senior driver on his quest.
At the end of the day, each team prefers to have both championships in the pocket.
Really surprised with those team orders, to be honest.

Quoting scbriml (Reply 35):

I'm sure Webber could have made it harder as well.

On the screen I was watching, Webber fought pretty hard and even attacked back that same lap Vettel passed him.....

Quoting flood (Reply 34):
in that regard both drivers stubbornly played their part, as Webber was hardly listening to anyone when he took on the fight through the corners. Both will get an earful. Vettel obviously more so, but neither were team angels.

Bingo! Webber defended which he should not have done.......

Quoting Bill142 (Reply 41):
Vettel needs to be sat out for a race or two for a lack of sportsmanship.

You mean "a lack" like this?:

Quoting racko (Reply 42):

http://www.autosport.com/news/report...93001
Quoting BHMNONREV (Reply 47):
And during the rest of this season, it would not surprise me at some point if Webber decides to "even the score", teammates be damned

I totally agree! Vettel will shoot ahead of Webber in the championship and comes a time where Webber would normally move over for his teammate in order for him to beat that one red car......and that might not happen, all of a sudden.
I can see Webber and his long toes leaving RBR at the end of this year anyway; problem is, who would take him?
I don't think the other top teams are queueing to sign him up, according to the rumors I hear.

Quoting stealthz (Reply 13):

Letting FA pass the pit entrance with such an obviously failed front wing was stupid at best, criminal more likely.

Ferrari has been favored in the past, and FIA will not take action against them jeopardizing the other cars.....unfortunately!
I feel like the A318 at times: I am probably worth more parted out than as a whole.

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