oldeuropean
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Chinese Skyscrapers Aren't Built On Sand ...

Sat Mar 23, 2013 10:46 pm

... but with the wrong sand, which could lead to some spectacular collapses.  Wow!http://www.wired.co.uk/news/archive/...hina-concrete-sand-quality-scandal

[Edited 2013-03-23 15:55:02]
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Flighty
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RE: Chinese Skyscrapers Aren't Built On Sand ...

Sat Mar 23, 2013 11:42 pm

No rule of law, and eventually even Chinese hate dealing with Chinese businesses.
 
PlymSpotter
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RE: Chinese Skyscrapers Aren't Built On Sand ...

Sun Mar 24, 2013 1:17 am

Concrete cancer in the worlds second tallest building, yeah that can't be good. If it's definitely been used in serious quantities then there is only one true solution - tear the whole lot down and start again.


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zkojq
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RE: Chinese Skyscrapers Aren't Built On Sand ...

Sun Mar 24, 2013 6:22 am

Quoting PlymSpotter (Reply 2):
Concrete cancer in the worlds second tallest building, yeah that can't be good.

The world's second tallest building is one thing, but what is to say that the same issue isn't affecting the Three Gorges Dam? One would hope that there was adequate oversight on such a project, though if public officials have been paid off (as is sadly often the case in China) it would be rather difficult to rectify.
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FlyboyOz
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RE: Chinese Skyscrapers Aren't Built On Sand ...

Sun Mar 24, 2013 11:04 am

I find it very odd... After a car hit the wall, I was so suprised that it bounced back! It means that the wall wasn't collapsed. It was still as normal. I couldn't found any fault on that video.
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gabrielchew
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RE: Chinese Skyscrapers Aren't Built On Sand ...

Sun Mar 24, 2013 9:29 pm

Quoting zkojq (Reply 3):
The world's second tallest building is one thing, but what is to say that the same issue isn't affecting the Three Gorges Dam?

Well, given the dam's location, i'd be surprised if sea sand was used. Still, anything and everything is possible in China.
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dl021
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RE: Chinese Skyscrapers Aren't Built On Sand ...

Mon Mar 25, 2013 2:04 pm

How many structures around the world are built with imported Chinese concrete? All those stadiums the PRC built in Africa buying off local politicians for the mineral and resource rights to the countries. What other corners were cut?
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PlymSpotter
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RE: Chinese Skyscrapers Aren't Built On Sand ...

Mon Mar 25, 2013 2:39 pm

Quoting zkojq (Reply 3):
The world's second tallest building is one thing, but what is to say that the same issue isn't affecting the Three Gorges Dam? One would hope that there was adequate oversight on such a project, though if public officials have been paid off (as is sadly often the case in China) it would be rather difficult to rectify

That's a good point, but as gabrielchew says, it surely would have cost more to ship it inland.

Quoting dl021 (Reply 6):
How many structures around the world are built with imported Chinese concrete? All those stadiums the PRC built in Africa buying off local politicians for the mineral and resource rights to the countries. What other corners were cut?

The issue here is contaminants in the sand and aggregate. Concrete is a mixture of these and cement, due to the huge weight and volume you only import the cement and source the other materials as locally as possible. It's still possible to contaminate the cement, as the Lafarge scandle in the UK demonstrated, but it doesn't appear to be the issue here.


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Aesma
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RE: Chinese Skyscrapers Aren't Built On Sand ...

Mon Mar 25, 2013 4:35 pm

Well recently it was discovered that a French nuclear power plant was build with inadequate river sand (river sand is usually adequate, but nuclear plants need special concrete), so it's not just China. From some research there is also a problem in the concrete of a Belgian nuclear plant.
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wingman
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RE: Chinese Skyscrapers Aren't Built On Sand ...

Mon Mar 25, 2013 6:26 pm

The new Bay Bridge b/t SF and Oakland comes to mind, though that may just be the steel. I know there was a quality issue tracked in the local press a while back but everything seems to have been resolved following additional QC'ing of the suspected parts.

I read in a recent Economist issue about the number of billionaires in the Chinese government, 70+ if I recall. That compares to less than 5 in the US. I suppose the point is that if the people charged with regulating China's explosive growth are also the one profiting from it, well...bad things will happen.

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Kiwirob
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RE: Chinese Skyscrapers Aren't Built On Sand ...

Mon Mar 25, 2013 6:35 pm

Here's quality Chinese building for you.



I'd be a tad worried if I lived in one of the other buildings on the project.
 
3DoorsDown
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RE: Chinese Skyscrapers Aren't Built On Sand ...

Tue Mar 26, 2013 4:03 am

I remember when I was in China for 5 months and 1 night we had to ride out a typhoon. The building was swaying. I remember thinking, well if it goes down I can ride it from the 23rd floor (of 24) down to the ground or I can go down to the 2nd floor bar and be crushed and not even know it. Alcohol was good that night.
 
StarAC17
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RE: Chinese Skyscrapers Aren't Built On Sand ...

Thu Mar 28, 2013 2:13 am

Quoting 3DoorsDown (Reply 11):
I remember when I was in China for 5 months and 1 night we had to ride out a typhoon. The building was swaying. I remember thinking, well if it goes down I can ride it from the 23rd floor (of 24) down to the ground or I can go down to the 2nd floor bar and be crushed and not even know it. Alcohol was good that night.

In heavy winds just because the building sways doesn't mean that it is going to collapse and may never will. There might have been an oversight that the deflection from wind wasn't minimized but the taller the building the more it will sway and its expected.

Yes it freaks people out which is why every effort is made to minimize it but so does turbulence on a plane and it doesn't mean the wing is going to snap off.

FYI the CN tower in Toronto will sway about 18 feet at the top and winds here don't get to typhoon strength.
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txjim
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RE: Chinese Skyscrapers Aren't Built On Sand ...

Thu Mar 28, 2013 2:57 pm

Quoting KiwiRob (Reply 10):
Here's quality Chinese building for you.

At least it appeared to stay intact after falling down! Put a winch on that bad boy and pull it back up again!
 
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Aesma
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RE: Chinese Skyscrapers Aren't Built On Sand ...

Thu Mar 28, 2013 3:21 pm

Quoting KiwiRob (Reply 10):
Here's quality Chinese building for you.

Well the concrete seems pretty solid there ! Too bad they forgot about proper foundations !

Let's hope this happened in one of those "ghost towns".
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nitrohelper
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RE: Chinese Skyscrapers Aren't Built On Sand ...

Fri Mar 29, 2013 1:23 pm

Quoting wingman (Reply 9):
That compares to less than 5 in the US.

I believe that you either have a typo there , or need to do more research before making that statement again...
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wingman
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RE: Chinese Skyscrapers Aren't Built On Sand ...

Fri Mar 29, 2013 4:12 pm

Serving in government. That's the point, the Chinese have 70+ billionaires serving as active members of the government. It's hard to portray that as anything less than wholesale embezzlement on a national scale. Can you imagine 5 senator billionaires getting together and working construction deals where one builds, the next supplies the concrete, the next is the realtor, and the last two do transportation and logistics? I have a feeling that's the kind of stuff that goes on over there and which will inevitably lead to pictures like the ones above. When the police start dealing drugs, well you see where it leads.
 
3DoorsDown
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RE: Chinese Skyscrapers Aren't Built On Sand ...

Sat Mar 30, 2013 2:14 am

Quoting StarAC17 (Reply 12):
In heavy winds just because the building sways doesn't mean that it is going to collapse and may never will.

Yah I know. But that is how buildings are built in America, possibly Canada and a few other places. I saw reports three different times before I went over there of buildings falling over to not have some concern.

Quoting wingman (Reply 16):

We have that going on in the USA with the morons that came up with ObamaCare and all the other pork that was thrown in.
 
max999
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RE: Chinese Skyscrapers Aren't Built On Sand ...

Sat Mar 30, 2013 11:43 pm

The point here isn't about concrete, it's about cowboy capitalism. Right now in China, it's every man/woman for him/herself...as long as you can make a quick profit no matter the cost. Ignore the rules, working in an environment with minimal regulations, bribery, etc. And many of these things are not isolated cases, but they're endemic.

In many ways, China has taken capitalism to its most extreme form.
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Goldenshield
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RE: Chinese Skyscrapers Aren't Built On Sand ...

Tue Apr 02, 2013 9:19 am

Quoting max999 (Reply 18):

The point here isn't about concrete, it's about cowboy capitalism.

Check this place out: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/New_South_China_Mall
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