FlyDeltaJets
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This American Life's Disability Spotlight

Mon Mar 25, 2013 5:29 am

This American Life went to Hale County Alabama and the focused on the high level of disability in this area in comparison to the federal average. Its a good listen and has already received a strong rebuttal from Media Matters.

http://www.thisamericanlife.org/radi...sode/490/trends-with-benefits#play

The Media Matters rebuttal
http://mediamatters.org/research/201...eatures-error-riddled-story/193215
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ozglobal
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RE: This American Life's Disability Spotlight

Mon Mar 25, 2013 6:18 pm

Based on the quite factual Media Matters report, this American Life item is something that genuinely qualifies for the term, "Evil". It systematically demonizes poor handicapped children and their families in low income areas as parasites, cheats and con artists, taking from the rich to support their idle lifestyles. It peddles hate through vilification of the weak and marginalised, whilst appealing to the self righteousness of the rich. It does so through dozens of misrepresentations, deliberate half truths and outright lies.

Remember, "Only the Genuinely Greedy speak of the Genuinely Needy"...

American Life deliberately ignores increased poverty as driver of increased numbers on benefits
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falstaff
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RE: This American Life's Disability Spotlight

Mon Mar 25, 2013 8:31 pm

Quoting OzGlobal (Reply 1):
It systematically demonizes poor handicapped children and their families in low income areas as parasites, cheats and con artists, taking from the rich to support their idle lifestyles. It peddles hate through vilification of the weak and marginalised, whilst appealing to the self righteousness of the rich. It does so through dozens of misrepresentations, deliberate half truths and outright lies.

I see fake disabled people all the time. My neighbor on the right is on disability and he is not disabled. My neighbor on the left is on disability and never had a job a day in his life. Neither are disabled, but suck down the Mountain Dew and smoke their cigarettes all day long. There are 1000s of cases in Michigan of people who are scammers and 100s of doctors who are in on it. I have worked with some people who are actually disabled, but I meet people who brag about being on disability and aren't disabled. I have met people who brag about being on disability. Come spend a day with me and I'll show you some dead beat losers who milk the government for all they can and brag about it. I used to think this stuff wasn't widespread, then I moved to the neighborhood where I live now. Once I was surrounded by low income people I began to realize that many of the stereotypes are true.
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FlyDeltaJets
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RE: This American Life's Disability Spotlight

Mon Mar 25, 2013 8:34 pm

Quoting OzGlobal (Reply 1):

Based on the quite factual Media Matters report, this American Life item is something that genuinely qualifies for the term, "Evil".

Not saying that the Media Matters take is not fact based. I think they take things out of context from the This American Life story. I suggest everyone should listen to the story to see the quotes in context.
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airportugal310
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RE: This American Life's Disability Spotlight

Mon Mar 25, 2013 10:05 pm

Quoting falstaff (Reply 2):
I see fake disabled people all the time. My neighbor on the right is on disability and he is not disabled. My neighbor on the left is on disability and never had a job a day in his life. Neither are disabled, but suck down the Mountain Dew and smoke their cigarettes all day long. There are 1000s of cases in Michigan of people who are scammers and 100s of doctors who are in on it. I have worked with some people who are actually disabled, but I meet people who brag about being on disability and aren't disabled. I have met people who brag about being on disability. Come spend a day with me and I'll show you some dead beat losers who milk the government for all they can and brag about it. I used to think this stuff wasn't widespread, then I moved to the neighborhood where I live now. Once I was surrounded by low income people I began to realize that many of the stereotypes are true.

Qualifies as one of the best post's I've ever read on here.

Indeed...they brag about it like it's something to be proud of! Like my godparents...bizarre
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seb146
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RE: This American Life's Disability Spotlight

Tue Mar 26, 2013 3:27 am

Quoting falstaff (Reply 2):
Come spend a day with me and I'll show you some dead beat losers who milk the government for all they can and brag about it.

That is called "waste, fraud and abuse" and that is what is straining the system. Since you know so many people milking the system, you can do the right thing and report them. If not, you are just as guilty as they are.

That really pisses me off about the right wing: they point to ONLY those who game the system and say "I told you the entire system is broken! We need to shut it all down because it is nearly all scammers!" then, the rest of us who genuinely need assistance (many of us only need Medicare and would be glad to pay $50 or $100 a month for it) get screwed over. All because the right wing media, who seems to be the only ones in control of media, tells everyone it is the scammers who are the problem. Not the drug companies. Not the insurance companies. Not the corporations.
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doug_or
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RE: This American Life's Disability Spotlight

Tue Mar 26, 2013 5:47 am

Quoting FlyDeltaJets (Reply 3):
Not saying that the Media Matters take is not fact based. I think they take things out of context from the This American Life story. I suggest everyone should listen to the story to see the quotes in context.

I wholeheartedly agree. I heard the piece on the radio and the media matters rebuttal doesn't really refute the story as much as it nit-picks out of context minutia while misrepresenting the thrust of the actual story.
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seb146
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RE: This American Life's Disability Spotlight

Tue Mar 26, 2013 6:18 am

Quoting doug_Or (Reply 6):
the media matters rebuttal doesn't really refute the story as much as it nit-picks out of context minutia while misrepresenting the thrust of the actual story.

That 14.4 million children are living below poverty level? That is part of the original report. That is fine with people. It is the poor in one county in Alabama that has people in a blather.
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airportugal310
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RE: This American Life's Disability Spotlight

Tue Mar 26, 2013 3:58 pm

Quoting seb146 (Reply 5):
That really pisses me off about the right wing: they point to ONLY those who game the system and say "I told you the entire system is broken! We need to shut it all down because it is nearly all scammers!" then, the rest of us who genuinely need assistance (many of us only need Medicare and would be glad to pay $50 or $100 a month for it) get screwed over. All because the right wing media, who seems to be the only ones in control of media, tells everyone it is the scammers who are the problem. Not the drug companies. Not the insurance companies. Not the corporations.

Well what really pisses me off about bleeding heart liberals is that it's always someone else's fault...could never be because of poor circumstances. No...no....must have been a corporation that caused it  
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ozglobal
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RE: This American Life's Disability Spotlight

Tue Mar 26, 2013 5:14 pm

Quoting airportugal310 (Reply 8):
Well what really pisses me off about bleeding heart liberals is that it's always someone else's fault...could never be because of poor circumstances. No...no....must have been a corporation that caused it

Look at the chart. The huge rise in poverty in the US coincides with a period of unbridled corporate excesses with associated impacts on the wider economy. This behaviour and its effects were reinforced by the policies enacted over the period. This is both uncontroversial and well documented. Of course there is welfare abuse; to leave the subject there is however disingenuous and one has to ask about the motives that do so.
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falstaff
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RE: This American Life's Disability Spotlight

Tue Mar 26, 2013 9:48 pm

Quoting seb146 (Reply 5):
That is called "waste, fraud and abuse" and that is what is straining the system. Since you know so many people milking the system, you can do the right thing and report them. If not, you are just as guilty as they are.

They aren't breaking the law. That is the problem... As far as the law in concerned they are disabled. A doctor signed off on it and so did the government. Apparently it is too easy to claim to be disabled. I call them scammers, but legally they aren't. I meet parents who demand their kid get tested for special education services and when we test them we find nothing and the parent gets mad (a huge issue when I worked in Detroit). I had several parents pull their kids from our school saying if we couldn't certify their kid special ed than they would go to a school that would. They wanted to start a paper trail so the kid would have something when he tried to get SSI benefits later on. Some schools would certify any kid special ed if the parent(s) asked because the school could get more funding and the parent could get more welfare.

Who do you even report fraud too? The government? Who in the government? A buddy of mine tried to snitch to the IRS about a coworker claiming a child that wasn't hers and the IRS ran him through the wringer.

Nobody seems to care about welfare fraud. I can take you to a store in Detroit (McNichols & Puritan) with a sign out front that reads 10% cash back on EBT and WIC purchase. That is illegal and apparently nobody gives a hoot because the sign is right on the front of the building for the world to see.
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WingsFan
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RE: This American Life's Disability Spotlight

Tue Mar 26, 2013 10:52 pm

Quoting falstaff (Reply 10):
A doctor signed off on it and so did the government.

If you listen to this episode, you will, at one point, hear from a doctor who appears to have signed a significant number of these papers. He notes that some of the 'disabled' people can really perform some kind of job if they get one. His definition of ' ability to be gainfully employed' takes into account the ailment along with the local job market, education / skill level of applicant. This is wrong!
So by his definition, if I am factory worker who uses a thumb to operate machine and I my thumb gets hurt, which prohibits me from doing the same job in the same geographical area, I can be declared a disabled person! How about learning new skills or moving to a different area where factories need index finger to operate a machine?

I think the main problem here is that the definition of disability is very fluid or even undefinable.

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Flighty
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RE: This American Life's Disability Spotlight

Tue Mar 26, 2013 11:27 pm

"Poverty" simply means you do not report much income to the IRS. That's all it means.

It doesn't mean you don't have any money. If you do make money, you'd be a fool to report it to the IRS, and give up benefits.

Ideally, you work under the table for cash, and get a disability payment and Medicare to take care of health care needs. Plus food stamps, plus housing help.

People who have all these goods and services (and often, plenty of money) are still consdiered "poor," which simply states that they have low earnings, not a bad lifestyle.

People who fake diasability may _believe_ they are disabled. What they need is a kick in the ass. The fakers. Struggle is a GOOD thing that helped MANY people. If they struggle, start using their brain to make their way in the world, everybody wins.

For actual disabled people, yes of course they should be cared for as a family / state shared responsibility.

[Edited 2013-03-26 16:34:21]
 
ALTF4
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RE: This American Life's Disability Spotlight

Wed Mar 27, 2013 12:03 am

Quoting seb146 (Reply 5):
That really pisses me off about the right wing: they point to ONLY those who game the system and say "I told you the entire system is broken! We need to shut it all down because it is nearly all scammers!" then, the rest of us who genuinely need assistance (many of us only need Medicare and would be glad to pay $50 or $100 a month for it) get screwed over.

Hmm. Sounds remarkably similar to some people's view on religion.

I'd like the record to show that many religious organizations, including the church I am part of, are very generous when it comes to helping the poor and needy.

But it's ok. Continue to demonize "organized religion" because certainly the entire system is broken because of some bad apples.
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seb146
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RE: This American Life's Disability Spotlight

Wed Mar 27, 2013 3:30 am

Quoting WingsFan (Reply 11):
How about learning new skills or moving to a different area where factories need index finger to operate a machine?

Because those things cost money that the "disabled" people don't have. It is financially easier for them to stay on disability that pay for classes or pay to move. Money they don't have because they have to pay rent and buy food.
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JAGflyer
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RE: This American Life's Disability Spotlight

Thu Mar 28, 2013 12:50 am

Welfare/Disability should be strictly controlled. All allocation of funds is via charge card. The cards only work on authorized stores which do not sell tobacco or alcohol. They can only be used to purchase food/personal products. This would nearly eliminate all welfare bums who spend their check on booze, smokes, and fancy clothing. You're on welfare, you deserve to live modestly and get what you're given, not "get what you want". Don't like it? Get a job.

Canada brings in thousands of migrant workers each year. Why not take the welfare recipients and put them in these jobs. Don't like it? No cheque. There is a difference between unemployment insurance you get after losing a job and money you get paid because you WILL NOT work.
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FlyDeltaJets
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RE: This American Life's Disability Spotlight

Thu Mar 28, 2013 3:22 pm

Quoting seb146 (Reply 7):
That 14.4 million children are living below poverty level? That is part of the original report. That is fine with people. It is the poor in one county in Alabama that has people in a blather.

This town was the focus because of the concentration of disability recipients in such a small area. I didn't see it as people in a blather, just a location chosen for a reason to better understand a misunderstood group of people.
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PPVRA
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RE: This American Life's Disability Spotlight

Thu Mar 28, 2013 3:45 pm

Quoting OzGlobal (Reply 1):
Based on the quite factual Media Matters report, this American Life item is something that genuinely qualifies for the term, "Evil". It systematically demonizes poor handicapped children and their families in low income areas as parasites, cheats and con artists, taking from the rich to support their idle lifestyles. It peddles hate through vilification of the weak and marginalised, whilst appealing to the self righteousness of the rich. It does so through dozens of misrepresentations, deliberate half truths and outright lies.

Look at who is paddling pure hate!

Quoting OzGlobal (Reply 1):
Remember, "Only the Genuinely Greedy speak of the Genuinely Needy"...

That's just a morally reprehensible attempt to try to gain an edge on a debate when people are trying to have frank discussion about a sensible topic. Truly disgusting to say such a thing.
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txjim
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RE: This American Life's Disability Spotlight

Thu Mar 28, 2013 7:25 pm

Quoting falstaff (Reply 10):
I meet parents who demand their kid get tested for special education services and when we test them we find nothing and the parent gets mad (a huge issue when I worked in Detroit).


My sister-in-law taught in a rural area and was often approached by parents wanting help in getting their child declared "bugged" (the local term for having a mental handicap qualifying for federal assistance) without any basis. There is no question that parasites exists along with the truly needy. The problem is assuring that eliminating the parasites does not impact the legitimate claims and most governments are incapable of making the necessary subtle changes. They tend to address problems with broad strokes, sometimes cutting off too much.

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