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OA260
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Filipinos Nail Themselves To Cross For Good Friday

Fri Mar 29, 2013 12:41 pm

A bit extreme in todays world ! Im sure there are other ways to express your dedication to the church!

Filipinos nail themselves to cross to mark Good Friday

The gruesome real-life re-enactments of the crucifixion, which are held every Good Friday in the Philippines, are frowned upon by the Catholic church but have become freak tourist attractions.

Faith healer Arturo Bating, 44, spread his arms and maintained stoic calm as he was hoisted onto a wooden cross atop a sandy mound. He then had four-inch nails driven through his palms.

It was the first time he had done it, he said.

“This is a vow I had made to God so that He will spare my family from sickness,” the penitent, swathed in a white robe, said after his ordeal, which lasted several minutes.

“It was a bit painful, but bearable,” he added, pledging to take part in the ritual every year.

http://www.irishexaminer.com/world/f...ss-to-mark-good-friday-189741.html
 
rfields5421
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RE: Filipinos Nail Themselves To Cross For Good Friday

Fri Mar 29, 2013 1:13 pm

I saw some folks do this back in 1975 when I was in the Philippines.

Definitely weird.
 
Superfly
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RE: Filipinos Nail Themselves To Cross For Good Friday

Fri Mar 29, 2013 1:39 pm

Quoting OA260 (Thread starter):
have become freak tourist attractions.

I almost went to one of these just to see. I think it is totally bizarre and downright crazy.
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Dreadnought
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RE: Filipinos Nail Themselves To Cross For Good Friday

Fri Mar 29, 2013 2:41 pm

Quoting Superfly (Reply 2):
I almost went to one of these just to see. I think it is totally bizarre and downright crazy.

Could be worse. They could be nailing other people to the cross. As long as they only use volunteers then no problem.
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Devilfish
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RE: Filipinos Nail Themselves To Cross For Good Friday

Fri Mar 29, 2013 4:53 pm



Quoting OA260 (Thread starter):
Im sure there are other ways to express your dedication to the church!

They're dedicating themselves to their God.

Quoting OA260 (Thread starter):
frowned upon by the Catholic church but have become freak tourist attractions

Which is a roundabout way of describing the freaky tourists.

Quoting Dreadnought (Reply 3):
Quoting Superfly (Reply 2):
I almost went to one of these just to see. I think it is totally bizarre and downright crazy.

Could be worse. They could be nailing other people to the cross. As long as they only use volunteers then no problem.

   Like cults leading and forcing their followers to commit mass suicide       !

[Edited 2013-03-29 10:06:43]
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MD11Engineer
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RE: Filipinos Nail Themselves To Cross For Good Friday

Fri Mar 29, 2013 5:05 pm

From what my Pinay girlfriend told me, these people are considered to be a bit of religious fanatics. It is defintely not a popular pastime in the Philippines.

Jan
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Dreadnought
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RE: Filipinos Nail Themselves To Cross For Good Friday

Fri Mar 29, 2013 5:31 pm

Quoting Devilfish (Reply 4):
Like cults leading and forcing their followers to commit mass suicide

Forcing??? I have never heard of a cult forcing anyone to commit suicide. All the cases I have heard of the participants were happy to go along with it - in which case I see it as Darwin in action, and we are all better off for it.

I draw the line at children however. Children of parents who are in a cult are victims - no question.
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fr8mech
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RE: Filipinos Nail Themselves To Cross For Good Friday

Fri Mar 29, 2013 6:20 pm

Reminds me of something I saw played out dozens of times when I was younger; not quite crucification, but the age of the participants was the startling part.

There is a Greek Island called Tinos. On this island is a church called Panagia Evangelistria where old and elderly women would crawl on hands and knees up the approach to the church in supplication.

To understand this, you have to realize that the approach is about 1/3rd mile with an elevation change of about 200 ft, give or take.

Many of these women would begin crawling when they left their villages, where ever in Greece they may have been. Many times I saw women on their knees while on the ferry to Tinos.

It always struck me as so very sad.

There is a statue at the top of the hill depicting a woman on her knees crawling to the chruch.
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DarkSnowyNight
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RE: Filipinos Nail Themselves To Cross For Good Friday

Fri Mar 29, 2013 8:17 pm

Quoting fr8mech (Reply 7):

There is a Greek Island called Tinos. On this island is a church called Panagia Evangelistria where old and elderly women would crawl on hands and knees up the approach to the church in supplication.

To understand this, you have to realize that the approach is about 1/3rd mile with an elevation change of about 200 ft, give or take

I watched some folks do this in Costa Rica a few years back. This wasn't a small or remote area either. Definitely weird, yes.
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neutrino
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RE: Filipinos Nail Themselves To Cross For Good Friday

Sat Mar 30, 2013 2:25 pm

Not to belittle the people and their practice but the whole affair is actually quite tame and not as gory as it's made out to be. I witnessed it in person a few years ago and what I briefly described below is based on what I had seen with my own eyes. Others might see it differently.

The nailing through the palms and feet were carefully carried out by experienced persons (probably medically-trained) who ensured that the nails only went through the flesh and not veins, arteries and bones. Except for the rare misses, hardly any blood were spilled in the entire process of nails-in & nails-out which were over in a couple of minutes.
Medics and ambulances were on hand to tend to the superficial injuries and the occasional minor mishaps.

I have been brought up on regular visual diets of temple mediums (mainly Hindus & Taoists) being impaled with needles, swords, spears and other manners of sharp weapons on almost all parts of their bodies and walking around for hours. Take it from me, the crucifixions, painful as they surely are, cannot even begin to be compared to what the priests & devotees of the above-mentioned oriental faiths have gone through.

Unlike the crucifixions which were real, the whippings were a sham. The red stuff was not blood but just some dyed thickened liquid which the whippers dipped into from a pail (my shirt and jeans were splashed by many flying droplets from the swinging whips of cloth/leather strips). No skin were split open; at worst there are welts from inadvertently heavier than intended "blows".

That said, my respect goes to the grit of those ladies & gentlemen who got their palms and feet punctured. Its pain that I wouldn't and couldn't endure.
Potestatem obscuri lateris nescitis
 
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DocLightning
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RE: Filipinos Nail Themselves To Cross For Good Friday

Sat Mar 30, 2013 7:04 pm

Quoting Dreadnought (Reply 3):
Could be worse. They could be nailing other people to the cross. As long as they only use volunteers then no problem.
Quoting Dreadnought (Reply 6):
I draw the line at children however. Children of parents who are in a cult are victims - no question.

I agree on both counts. What consenting adults do, even though it turns my stomach, is not my business. So while I am aware that this activity goes on, I choose to ignore it. The instant someone does it to an animal (and I've seen a photo of this being done with a cat...horrible) or a child, then I think that it becomes someone else's business.

In the US this would probably not be legal because in the US you cannot legally agree to be harmed. So for example, if I ask you to kill me and you do, you don't have a legal defense. Similarly, if I ask you to dismember me and you do, etc...
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Superfly
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RE: Filipinos Nail Themselves To Cross For Good Friday

Sat Mar 30, 2013 7:15 pm

Quoting DocLightning (Reply 10):
What consenting adults do, even though it turns my stomach, is not my business. So while I am aware that this activity goes on, I choose to ignore it. The instant someone does it to an animal (and I've seen a photo of this being done with a cat...horrible) or a child, then I think that it becomes someone else's business.

  
Well said Doc!

Quoting DocLightning (Reply 10):
in the US you cannot legally agree to be harmed.

Yet the voters seem to do that every November.   
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AR385
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RE: Filipinos Nail Themselves To Cross For Good Friday

Sat Mar 30, 2013 8:12 pm

Quoting Devilfish (Reply 4):
They're dedicating themselves to their God.

Considering that their God only sent one person to be crucified so horribly, I think this "dedication" is just the mis-interpretation of fanatics.
 
Devilfish
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RE: Filipinos Nail Themselves To Cross For Good Friday

Sat Mar 30, 2013 10:33 pm

Quoting AR385 (Reply 12):

Considering that their God only sent one person to be crucified so horribly, I think this "dedication" is just the mis-interpretation of fanatics.

There is no denying that the practice borders on fanaticism and thus, labeled by the local Church as misguided. However, it's the same Church that proffers the Bible which tells them "to pick up your own Cross and follow me." Pity the simple mind who takes the commandment to heart and fulfill it in earnest.

For the most part, it's a penance done for the atonement of sins, or (as told in the OP) a sacrifice for protection. The number of Good Fridays the penitent vows to do it varies with the gravity of the sin or the seriousness of the plea. Much like how the Father Confessor admonishes one to say so many Our Fathers and Hail Marys for an impure thought.

In many ways, it's just the local version of juramentos y mandas that you may be familiar with in your work. With a fair bit of native influences thrown into the mix. An unavoidable outcome of the Frailes ramming their religion down our "heathen" throats.   


Feliz Pascua!





[Edited 2013-03-30 16:13:07]
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neutrino
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RE: Filipinos Nail Themselves To Cross For Good Friday

Sun Mar 31, 2013 7:27 am

Quoting neutrino (Reply 9):
.....temple mediums (mainly Hindus & Taoists) being impaled with needles, swords, spears and other manners of sharp weapons on almost all parts of their bodies and walking around for hours.

Some (tamer)examples from the web:-

http://www.google.com/search?hl=en&g...N&tab=wi&ei=tOJXUbShKtCrrAeB3ICoCQ
http://www.google.com/search?hl=en&g...=71ce3bb9907a9097&biw=1338&bih=944
Potestatem obscuri lateris nescitis
 
flipdewaf
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RE: Filipinos Nail Themselves To Cross For Good Friday

Sun Mar 31, 2013 7:46 am

Why would any sane god appreciate it when people hurt them selves in its name? Surely a nice god wants you to just get on with your life and be a good person without wasting time and money on such shenanigans, a god that wants sacrifice seems like one not to follow.

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CPH-R
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RE: Filipinos Nail Themselves To Cross For Good Friday

Sun Mar 31, 2013 4:34 pm

Danish TV had a documentary on last night, where they followed Ruben Enaje who had his 27th and final crucifixion this year ( I guess they followed him last year). The first 10 came about as a promise he had made, after he survived falling off some builders scaffolding, and the last 17 came after his daughter survived some serious illness.

As others have mentioned, it's all carefully choreographed, with the nails being sterilized, experienced persons ensuring the nails only goes through flesh, and medical staff being on standby to ensure nothing goes wrong. Add to that that they're only on the cross for a rather brief period (2 minutes on average for new devotees, up to 15 minutes for the more experienced ones).
 
Superfly
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RE: Filipinos Nail Themselves To Cross For Good Friday

Sun Mar 31, 2013 6:38 pm

Quoting flipdewaf (Reply 15):
Why would any sane god appreciate it when people hurt them selves in its name? Surely a nice god wants you to just get on with your life and be a good person without wasting time and money on such shenanigans, a god that wants sacrifice seems like one not to follow.

No God condones or appreciate this.
They are attempting to relive the pain & suffereing of Jesus Christ in his final hours. No Bible condones this in anyway.
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fr8mech
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RE: Filipinos Nail Themselves To Cross For Good Friday

Sun Mar 31, 2013 8:03 pm

Quoting flipdewaf (Reply 15):
Why would any sane god appreciate it when people hurt them selves in its name?


I can only imagine that God does not appreciate it, as I'm sure God did not appreciate the Spanish Inquisition, The Crusades, Islamic Terrorism, etc., etc., etc.

But, according to the various scriptures out there, we are imperfect beings trying to interpret something that transcends us. Therefore, mistakes will be made.

It's unfortunate, it sucks and it is reality.
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