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DocLightning
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North Carolina May Establish State Religion

Wed Apr 03, 2013 8:24 pm

http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2013/0...ml?utm_hp_ref=religion&ir=Religion

Quote:
Republican North Carolina state legislators have proposed allowing an official state religion in a measure that would declare the state exempt from the Constitution and court rulings.

The bill, filed Monday by two GOP lawmakers from Rowan County and backed by nine other Republicans, says each state "is sovereign" and courts cannot block a state "from making laws respecting an establishment of religion." The legislation was filed in response to a lawsuit to stop county commissioners in Rowan County from opening meetings with a Christian prayer, wral.com reported.

To have a state say that they are going to ignore the Constitution and that it does not apply to them strikes me as being outright rebellion. There is ample legal precedent that the Bill of Rights does absolutely apply to the states. To say that they are going to ignore federal courts on a constitutional matter (especially one as basic as this) frankly merits a threat of military action to quell a rebellion.

Your thoughts?
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WarRI1
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RE: North Carolina May Establish State Religion

Wed Apr 03, 2013 8:28 pm

My thoughts, they are nuts first, and radical.
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Ken777
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RE: North Carolina May Establish State Religion

Wed Apr 03, 2013 8:32 pm

i wouldn't send in the troops yet - this is simply a bunch of Backwater Holy Rollin Republicans wanting their 15 minutes of fame. Let them have at it - all the people in the state working hard to attract new industries & jobs will be pulling their hair out and will fairly quickly set the yo-yo's straight.
 
sprout5199
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RE: North Carolina May Establish State Religion

Wed Apr 03, 2013 8:33 pm

Can you say bye bye federal funding, bye bye to any miltary bases.

States are not "sovereign".

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DocLightning
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RE: North Carolina May Establish State Religion

Wed Apr 03, 2013 8:35 pm

Quoting Ken777 (Reply 2):
i wouldn't send in the troops yet

I didn't say yet. They have to pass the bill first into law and then ignore a federal court ruling.
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Kiwirob
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RE: North Carolina May Establish State Religion

Wed Apr 03, 2013 8:36 pm

3 days late for April fools isn't it?
 
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casinterest
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RE: North Carolina May Establish State Religion

Wed Apr 03, 2013 8:37 pm

This won't go far.
Just ignorant politcs. The GOP is trying to stretch it's leash a bit with full control in North Carolina, and seem to be working hard to hand it all back to the Democrats.
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AeroWesty
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RE: North Carolina May Establish State Religion

Wed Apr 03, 2013 8:40 pm

Eh, let 'em go. Let's see how well they do left to their own devices.
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Superfly
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RE: North Carolina May Establish State Religion

Wed Apr 03, 2013 8:42 pm

I thought Tobacco was the religion of North Carolina.
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casinterest
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RE: North Carolina May Establish State Religion

Wed Apr 03, 2013 8:44 pm

Quoting Superfly (Reply 8):

I thought Tobacco was the religion of North Carolina.

Tobacco fields are quickly being replaced with Grapes and corn.
Too expensive to grow it here these days.
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Superfly
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RE: North Carolina May Establish State Religion

Wed Apr 03, 2013 8:46 pm

Quoting casinterest (Reply 9):
Tobacco fields are quickly being replaced with Grapes and corn.
Too expensive to grow it here these days.

Good!
I hate cigarettes.

These lawmakers are off their rocker with this one.
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casinterest
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RE: North Carolina May Establish State Religion

Wed Apr 03, 2013 8:56 pm

Quoting Superfly (Reply 10):
These lawmakers are off their rocker with this one

yes they are.
the article on wral had over 750 replies. Most articles get about 10-20.

http://www.wral.com/proposal-would-a...ligion-in-north-carolina/12296876/
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flyingturtle
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RE: North Carolina May Establish State Religion

Wed Apr 03, 2013 9:13 pm

Which of the 73823789374 denominations of the Christan faith will be the state religion of N. Carolina?   

I hope its the Church of God with Signs Following, I hear that they are on good terms with reptiles.


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romeobravo
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RE: North Carolina May Establish State Religion

Wed Apr 03, 2013 9:18 pm

Quoting AeroWesty (Reply 7):
Eh, let 'em go. Let's see how well they do left to their own devices.

They'd probably do alright really when you think about it.

No military industrial complex to fund, indeed no federal taxes.

They could just set up as a tax haven like the Caymen Islands but with the added bonus of being connected to the road and rail network.
 
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RE: North Carolina May Establish State Religion

Wed Apr 03, 2013 9:21 pm

Quoting RomeoBravo (Reply 13):
They'd probably do alright really when you think about it.

No military industrial complex to fund, indeed no federal taxes.

They could just set up as a tax haven like the Caymen Islands but with the added bonus of being connected to the road and rail network.

And you think the US would just let them keep all the federal assets and infrastructure? That's pretty much the biggest reason Quebec's attempts at sovereignty failed.
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romeobravo
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RE: North Carolina May Establish State Religion

Wed Apr 03, 2013 9:23 pm

Quoting WestJet747 (Reply 14):
And you think the US would just let them keep all the federal assets and infrastructure? That's pretty much the biggest reason Quebec's attempts at sovereignty failed.

Presumably NC have been putting into the federal pot themselves over the years.
 
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DocLightning
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RE: North Carolina May Establish State Religion

Wed Apr 03, 2013 11:35 pm

Quoting RomeoBravo (Reply 15):
Presumably NC have been putting into the federal pot themselves over the years.

Not as much as they have been taking out, IIRC.
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seb146
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RE: North Carolina May Establish State Religion

Thu Apr 04, 2013 12:15 am

Quoting RomeoBravo (Reply 13):
They'd probably do alright really when you think about it.

No military industrial complex to fund, indeed no federal taxes.

All the people unemployed or underemployed recieving federal food stamps and Medicade would lose those benefits. Interstate highways would go unfunded. Airports would go unfunded. Public schools, too. People don't realize how much their taxes would jump if the federal government disbanded or if people actually had to start paying.

Will NC establish a state religion? They could. No one will enforce it. If a city council wants to pray before a meeting, let them. In the parking lot.
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Mir
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RE: North Carolina May Establish State Religion

Thu Apr 04, 2013 2:57 am

Quoting DocLightning (Thread starter):
North Carolina May Establish State Religion

No, they may not. So says the Constitution.

Quoting DocLightning (Thread starter):
To have a state say that they are going to ignore the Constitution and that it does not apply to them strikes me as being outright rebellion.

Which, ironically, is prohibited by the North Carolina Constitution.

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RE: North Carolina May Establish State Religion

Thu Apr 04, 2013 6:32 am

My money is on Jedi and Church of the Flying Spaghetti Monster!     
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cmf
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RE: North Carolina May Establish State Religion

Thu Apr 04, 2013 11:08 am

Quoting DocLightning (Thread starter):
To have a state say that they are going to ignore the Constitution and that it does not apply to them strikes me as being outright rebellion.

Don't worry. All the gunners will stand up for the Constitution in the way the state the Second Amendment is about.
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RE: North Carolina May Establish State Religion

Fri Apr 05, 2013 10:28 am

1. How many of you have actually read the resolution in issue?

2. Have you the faintest clue of its legal effect, if it passed?

3. What do you think are the odds that this Resolution passes?

So much drama. So little cause.
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RE: North Carolina May Establish State Religion

Fri Apr 05, 2013 11:48 am

Quoting sccutler (Reply 21):
1. How many of you have actually read the resolution in issue?

2. Have you the faintest clue of its legal effect, if it passed?

3. What do you think are the odds that this Resolution passes?

So much drama. So little cause.

   What do you expect from a HuffPost article? Here is something from an actual News org.

http://abcnews.go.com/blogs/politics...ina-wont-establish-state-religion/
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DocLightning
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RE: North Carolina May Establish State Religion

Fri Apr 05, 2013 4:42 pm

Quoting Dreadnought (Reply 22):
What do you expect from a HuffPost article? Here is something from an actual News org.

There was nothing inaccurate in the HuffPo article.

The article you posted is from yesterday; mine was from the day before. Fortunately, cooler heads prevailed and this resolution/law will not come to a vote.
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Dreadnought
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RE: North Carolina May Establish State Religion

Fri Apr 05, 2013 5:03 pm

Quoting DocLightning (Reply 23):
There was nothing inaccurate in the HuffPo article.

It's all about spin. From the HuffPo, it sounds like they actually want to establish a state religion.
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casinterest
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RE: North Carolina May Establish State Religion

Fri Apr 05, 2013 5:19 pm

Quoting Dreadnought (Reply 24):
It's all about spin.

SPIN? So that is how you regard Dead on analysis?



Here is the resolution .


http://www.ncleg.net/Applications/Bi...sionCode=2013&DocNum=2501&SeqNum=0

"
Whereas, each state in the union is sovereign and may independently determine how 20 that state may make laws respecting an establishment of religion; and
"



"
SECTION 1. The North Carolina General Assembly asserts that the Constitution of the United States of America does not prohibit states or their subsidiaries from making laws respecting an establishment of religion.
SECTION 2. The North Carolina General Assembly does not recognize federal court rulings which prohibit and otherwise regulate the State of North Carolina, its public schools, or any political subdivisions of the State from making laws respecting an establishment of religion.
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DocLightning
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RE: North Carolina May Establish State Religion

Fri Apr 05, 2013 5:33 pm

Quoting Dreadnought (Reply 24):
It's all about spin. From the HuffPo, it sounds like they actually want to establish a state religion.

They did and still do. There is no spin. It got axed by the head of the NC GOP who knew that this was a truly bone-headed idea.
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Ken777
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RE: North Carolina May Establish State Religion

Sat Apr 06, 2013 1:54 am

Looks like the GOP there has given up on on this stupidity - probably to make room for vaginal probe discussions.
 
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casinterest
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RE: North Carolina May Establish State Religion

Sat Apr 06, 2013 3:26 am

Quoting Ken777 (Reply 27):

Looks like the GOP there has given up on on this stupidity - probably to make room for vaginal probe discussions.

There is lots of nutso stuff going on in the last few months. However there are a few things the GOP throng is going forward with that I actually agree with. But I think this and the medicare expansion bill are going to be enough to cause them massive pain in 2014 and 2016 here.
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RE: North Carolina May Establish State Religion

Sat Apr 06, 2013 5:13 am

Quoting DocLightning (Thread starter):
Your thoughts?

My thoughts?

Only in America.
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ALTF4
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RE: North Carolina May Establish State Religion

Sat Apr 06, 2013 5:58 am

Quoting DocLightning (Reply 4):
I didn't say yet.

Yeah you did.

Quoting DocLightning (Thread starter):
To say that they are going to ignore federal courts on a constitutional matter (especially one as basic as this) frankly merits a threat of military action to quell a rebellion.

You say that them simply saying they will ignore federal courts merits a threat of military action.

A bit harsh, in my opinion. At least you started back-pedaling within 4 replies. Good for you.
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DocLightning
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RE: North Carolina May Establish State Religion

Sat Apr 06, 2013 10:55 pm

Quoting ALTF4 (Reply 30):
Yeah you did.

I did not. I said that they "may" as in that the proposal had been brought by several members of that state's GOP. I stated only fact.

Quoting ALTF4 (Reply 30):
You say that them simply saying they will ignore federal courts merits a threat of military action.

If a state said that they were going to break into every citizen's homes and search for and confiscate guns and stop and frisk all of them on the street and at random and confiscate all the guns and search all entering motorists, etc. and that they didn't care what the courts said about the 4th or 2nd amendment because the Constitution didn't apply to them, you'd probably support the same.

The trouble with a state religion is that absolute power corrupts absolutely. With the force of a religious fatwa (if you will), the command can be to do things that are absolutely monstrous and any objection becomes anti-God and is punished harshly. It quickly and invariably turns into a theocratic dictatorship. For the few free countries that do have a state religion, that religion usually has legal prohibitions on trying to affect government policy and the state regulates the Church, not the other way around (like the Church of England).

That must not be permitted in the USA.
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BlueLight
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RE: North Carolina May Establish State Religion

Sat Apr 06, 2013 10:57 pm

What's amusing is that Democratic trial lawyers all over the country are celebrating all of these new "conservative" Republican laws that have been passed, as they can bill $400 to $800 per hour wasting time.

Brilliant!
 
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RE: North Carolina May Establish State Religion

Sun Apr 07, 2013 1:01 am

I lived in NC from 1984 to 1998. It's the buckle of the bible belt. Lots of holy rollers. Bangin' on your door at 0600 to invite you to church etc. You get the picture. NC is full of them.

Nothing new from the Tarheel State. Ignore it and it will go away!
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RE: North Carolina May Establish State Religion

Sun Apr 07, 2013 4:34 am

http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2013/0...nity-state-religion_n_3022255.html

Alarmingly, 32% of Americans want to declare Christianity as the official religion of the USA. That's just frightening.
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Quokkas
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RE: North Carolina May Establish State Religion

Sun Apr 07, 2013 5:37 am

Quoting DocLightning (Reply 34):
That's just frightening.

It would depend on the particular brand: the "judge not lest ye so be judged' and "don't pray in public as the hypocrites do" kind or the eternal hell and damnation type.

But I can't see it happening. I mean, "render unto Caesar". What? Pay taxes? Hell no, where's my grenade launcher?  
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mariner
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RE: North Carolina May Establish State Religion

Sun Apr 07, 2013 5:49 am

Quoting fridgmus (Reply 33):
It's the buckle of the bible belt.

That's a wonderful description.

The article says they may have abandoned their plans for establishing a state religion, but have moved on to the "Healthy Marriage Act":

http://www.rawstory.com/rs/2013/04/0...put-two-year-hold-on-all-divorces/

"North Carolina Republican lawmakers may have abandoned their plan to declare Christianity as the state’s religion, but conservative legislators in the state are still pushing forward with a plan to require a two-year waiting period on all divorces, a plan that require the couple to attend classes and workshops designed to prevent them from divorcing.

According to the Charlotte Observer, state Senators Austin Allran (R) and Sen. Warren Daniel (R) proposed the “Healthy Marriage Act” last week, which mandates a two-year wait before judges will grant married couples a divorce, two years during which they must complete counseling courses and workshops designed to improve “communication skills” and “conflict resolution."


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luckyone
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RE: North Carolina May Establish State Religion

Sun Apr 07, 2013 2:27 pm

Quoting mariner (Reply 36):

This from people whose previous bill was less government interference in people's lives??? Oh the irony.   
 
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DocLightning
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RE: North Carolina May Establish State Religion

Sun Apr 07, 2013 4:14 pm

Quoting Quokkas (Reply 35):
It would depend on the particular brand: the "judge not lest ye so be judged' and "don't pray in public as the hypocrites do" kind or the eternal hell and damnation type.

You know darned well what brand the sort who want to establish a state religion are.

Quoting luckyone (Reply 37):
This from people whose previous bill was less government interference in people's lives??? Oh the irony.

You begin to see why there is no civility in American politics. It's not "both sides' fault." It's that ONE SIDE has gone stark, raving bonkers.
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ALTF4
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RE: North Carolina May Establish State Religion

Sun Apr 07, 2013 5:23 pm

Quoting DocLightning (Reply 38):
It's that ONE SIDE has gone stark, raving bonkers.

Well, that's a helpful attitude.

 
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DocLightning
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RE: North Carolina May Establish State Religion

Sun Apr 07, 2013 6:07 pm

Quoting ALTF4 (Reply 39):
Well, that's a helpful attitude.

It's an accurate one. Have you seen the stuff coming out of the GOP lately? It's not rational. I say that objectively, not as a judgement. Math that doesn't add up. "Legitimate Rape." The preachers have driven the GOP over the brink to the point where multiple members of a state's GOP want to openly defy the First Amendment. If there is anything that is holy in US law, it is the First Amendment. But if you think you are holier than that, you have problems. The GOP needs to clean up their act and the first step has got to be to kick out the preachers. The preachers lost them the last election and will continue to lose them elections.

More importantly, when you believe you are speaking for God, that introduces a supreme level of arrogance. A belief that you cannot possibly be wrong and that any negotiation or move away from your "religious principles" is unacceptable. In practicality, that leads to a refusal to negotiate or consider that you may be wrong.

We need not look far to see examples of how mixing Church and State lead to theocratic totalitarianism. I give you the entire Middle-East. And Christian Uganda is quickly becoming that way too, with the backing of American Evangelicals. Nor do we need to reach far into the past to see how the Spanish Inquisition and the Crusades also stemmed from mixing Church and State. The recent sex abuse scandal with the Vatican stemmed from their insistence that they be seen as infallible.

When your god is telling armies to rape and pillage and any dissent is put down (violently) as satanic, the moral compass has broken, heinous acts can be justified, and horrible things occur. Invariably.
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ALTF4
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RE: North Carolina May Establish State Religion

Sun Apr 07, 2013 6:54 pm

Quoting DocLightning (Reply 40):

I personally think there is blame on both sides of the aisle. Different sorts of blame, but blame none-the-less. I do have specific examples, but for the sake of the thread and our collective blood pressure, I think it is best not to delve into that. I am not saying I disagree with you thinking there is blame on the right, I am disagreeing with your view that it is only the right.

If you didn't mean for it to be taken so absolutely, and I misunderstood, my apologies.
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RE: North Carolina May Establish State Religion

Sun Apr 07, 2013 10:09 pm

Quoting ALTF4 (Reply 41):

I think I see what both yall are saying.the crap coming from both sides of the aisle is pretty sad but I'm going to have to agree with Doc and point out that there's some pretty egregious statements coming out the GOP lately.a lot of these statements don't even represent most of those on the right, but the very extreme 10 percent or so
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AviRaider
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RE: North Carolina May Establish State Religion

Wed Apr 10, 2013 5:59 pm

It's just political blustering to show other GOP delegates what the tones and ideologies of the party should be, in their opinion. Unless they are flat out stupid, they would rightly know that this bill is dead on arrival. It's just to make a statement.
 
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DocLightning
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RE: North Carolina May Establish State Religion

Wed Apr 10, 2013 7:10 pm

Quoting DeltaMD90 (Reply 42):
I think I see what both yall are saying.the crap coming from both sides of the aisle is pretty sad but I'm going to have to agree with Doc and point out that there's some pretty egregious statements coming out the GOP lately.a lot of these statements don't even represent most of those on the right, but the very extreme 10 percent or so

Exactly. The DNC may be full of poop, but it's the same poop they've always been full of. The GOP, on the other hand, ever since Mr. Obama got elected, went clear off the deep end.
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garnetpalmetto
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RE: North Carolina May Establish State Religion

Wed Apr 10, 2013 7:36 pm

Quoting fridgmus (Reply 33):
I lived in NC from 1984 to 1998. It's the buckle of the bible belt. Lots of holy rollers. Bangin' on your door at 0600 to invite you to church etc. You get the picture. NC is full of them.

Nothing new from the Tarheel State. Ignore it and it will go away!

Respectfully, as you've not lived here in 15 years, I'd say things have changed. It's not quite "the buckle" anymore, but let's say a notch where the leather is starting to wear and threatening to break. While some parts of the state are still like that, the city-rural divide is sharpening in NC, particularly in the Triad, Triangle, and Metrolina; particularly the Triad and the Triangle as those two population centers continue to push towards each other.
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NASCARAirforce
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RE: North Carolina May Establish State Religion

Tue Apr 16, 2013 12:39 am

Quoting Dreadnought (Reply 24):
It's all about spin. From the HuffPo, it sounds like they actually want to establish a state religion.

Huff Post is basically the Left's version of the Right's Fox News - both try to shock and awe with misleading headlines all the time and give you half truths in their news articles
 
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DocLightning
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RE: North Carolina May Establish State Religion

Tue Apr 16, 2013 1:46 am

Quoting NASCARAirforce (Reply 46):
Huff Post is basically the Left's version of the Right's Fox News - both try to shock and awe with misleading headlines all the time and give you half truths in their news articles

Again, given the days that those articles were written, please cite what specific sentences or paragraphs in that article were anything less than purely factual.

I saw no spin at all. And I am a huge opponent of spin; I can spot it a mile away.

Fact: A number of Republican lawmakers in North Carolina submitted a bill to allow the state of North Carolina to establish a state religion. At the time that article was written, this was fact.

A few days later, the NC GOP leadership canned the bill. That does not change the fact that something so outrageous was brought to a state legislature.
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luckyone
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RE: North Carolina May Establish State Religion

Tue Apr 16, 2013 2:12 pm

Quoting DocLightning (Reply 47):
Fact: A number of Republican lawmakers in North Carolina submitted a bill to allow the state of North Carolina to establish a state religion. At the time that article was written, this was fact.

A few days later, the NC GOP leadership canned the bill. That does not change the fact that something so outrageous was brought to a state legislature.

True, but let's be real. It has happened a lot from both sides of the aisle. Remember this gem?? http://www.govtrack.us/congress/bills/109/hr4210
 
CalebWilliams
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RE: North Carolina May Establish State Religion

Tue Apr 16, 2013 5:45 pm

Quoting NASCARAirforce (Reply 46):
Huff Post is basically the Left's version of the Right's Fox News - both try to shock and awe with misleading headlines all the time and give you half truths in their news articles

HuffPo is actually the "left's" version of the Daily Caller website.

HuffPo::Dailer Caller
as
Fox News::CNN
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