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alberchico
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Obama To Take A 5% Pay Cut...

Wed Apr 03, 2013 9:36 pm

http://www.usatoday.com/story/news/p...ama-salary-furlough-hagel/2050121/

Really just 5% ? That is actually more insulting than helpful. Kind of reminds me of this Dilbert strip

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WestJet747
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RE: Obama To Take A 5% Pay Cut...

Wed Apr 03, 2013 9:43 pm

The President gives up $20,000 in salary and you're insulted? Sorry, but I think you just want to be insulted because you don't like the guy. Believe it or not, heads-of-state have the right to be paid as well, and I think "President of the United States of America" is a little more stressful than your average CEO. I'm not an Obama supporter, but even I see a lot of goodwill behind this gesture.

If my Prime Minister willingly cut his pay by any amount I would have absolutely no problem with it, let alone get insulted.  
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mt99
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RE: Obama To Take A 5% Pay Cut...

Wed Apr 03, 2013 9:45 pm

Quoting alberchico (Thread starter):
Really just 5% ? That is actually more insulting than helpful. Kind of reminds me of this Dilbert strip

Helpful? even if he took 100% pay cut- how is that helpful in anyway?

He is showing solidarity - that all that matters really..

Politics? of course?.. insulting? Not even close!

[Edited 2013-04-03 14:46:49]
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romeobravo
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RE: Obama To Take A 5% Pay Cut...

Wed Apr 03, 2013 9:51 pm

He should keep his money and do his job properly, ie give the entire public sector a 15% paycut.

Obama is quite possibly the most opportunistic politician i've ever witnessed.
 
bueb0g
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RE: Obama To Take A 5% Pay Cut...

Wed Apr 03, 2013 9:57 pm

Quoting RomeoBravo (Reply 3):
Obama is quite possibly the most opportunistic politician i've ever witnessed.

See I know that's not true, because you're from the UK so you have to know about Ed Milliband.

Quoting mt99 (Reply 2):
Politics? of course?.. insulting? Not even close!

  
Roger roger, what's our vector, victor?
 
flymia
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RE: Obama To Take A 5% Pay Cut...

Wed Apr 03, 2013 10:25 pm

Just some political move. I'm not insulted but I am far far from impressed. He is president of the United States. In three years he will make tens of millions of dollars a year on book deals, interviews, and speaking arrangements. He can probably spare so more money but I get his point. Honestly I think it would have been just better if he didnt say a word about his pay.
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Boeing717200
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RE: Obama To Take A 5% Pay Cut...

Wed Apr 03, 2013 10:28 pm

Quoting WestJet747 (Reply 1):
The President gives up $20,000 in salary and you're insulted?

He spends that much just flying to single golf outing.
 
ajd1992
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RE: Obama To Take A 5% Pay Cut...

Wed Apr 03, 2013 10:55 pm

Quoting Boeing717200 (Reply 6):
He spends that much just flying to single golf outing.

Either way, the American tax payers are funding it.....
 
Pyrex
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RE: Obama To Take A 5% Pay Cut...

Wed Apr 03, 2013 11:03 pm

Quoting flymia (Reply 5):
He is president of the United States. In three years he will make tens of millions of dollars a year on book deals, interviews, and speaking arrangements

Heck, he's never had a real job in his life and is a millionaire already, just imagine after (if) he leaves office, with all the cult of personality brainwipes out there.
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Aeri28
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RE: Obama To Take A 5% Pay Cut...

Wed Apr 03, 2013 11:35 pm

oh wow, another Obama thread.
Although winning a decisive victory for a 2nd term. Airliners.net dudes!, Your supposed to lick your wounds to allow healing, but I guess it's gonna be a long time before you can get your tongue off your arm..

Quoting Pyrex (Reply 8):
Heck, he's never had a real job in his life and is a millionaire already, just imagine after (if) he leaves office, with all the cult of personality brainwipes out there.

Not sure what your definition of a 'real job' is, but I think you should go read his career biography but first of all, me thinks you should take a higher road and go and help deal with your country's 16% unemployment rate lol. What are YOU doing about that?
 
romeobravo
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RE: Obama To Take A 5% Pay Cut...

Wed Apr 03, 2013 11:44 pm

Quoting Aeri28 (Reply 9):
What are YOU doing about that?

More than Obama i should think.
 
seb146
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RE: Obama To Take A 5% Pay Cut...

Thu Apr 04, 2013 12:10 am

Quoting alberchico (Thread starter):
Really just 5% ? That is actually more insulting than helpful.

Bush took how much of a cut?

Quoting RomeoBravo (Reply 3):
He should keep his money and do his job properly

That would be......?

Quoting ajd1992 (Reply 7):
Quoting Boeing717200 (Reply 6):He spends that much just flying to single golf outing.
Either way, the American tax payers are funding it.....

It would be so much better for him to be flying off somewhere every two weeks to clear brush?

I also find it hilarious that people are saying he is not creating enough jobs. Excuse me, but, those tax breaks he hates but signed off on anyway were supposed to create jobs. Where are those jobs? Let's try it his way for a while. We all had to suffer through what Bush wanted because he threw a tantrum when he didn't get what he wanted. Obama tries to be a diplomat. You can't be a diplomat in a room full of egotists.
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WestJet747
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RE: Obama To Take A 5% Pay Cut...

Thu Apr 04, 2013 12:10 am

Quoting Boeing717200 (Reply 6):
He spends that much just flying to single golf outing.

Right, 'cause he's totally the only President who does that.  

But for the heck of it, here's a read: http://www.merriam-webster.com/dictionary/goodwill

Quoting Pyrex (Reply 8):
Heck, he's never had a real job in his life

Not sure if you're being facetious or elitist...
Flying refined.
 
Pyrex
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RE: Obama To Take A 5% Pay Cut...

Thu Apr 04, 2013 12:11 am

Quoting Aeri28 (Reply 9):
me thinks you should take a higher road and go and help deal with your country's 16% unemployment rate lol. What are YOU doing about that?

"Never ask what your country can do for you, ask what you can do for yourself" - not JFK.

Simple, if people want to wallow in socialism and live with a gigantic state let them, but don't expect me to pay for it, I will take my skills and hard work to where they might be appreciated and properly rewarded, not frowned upon.

Sorry, forgot: lol
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StarAC17
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RE: Obama To Take A 5% Pay Cut...

Thu Apr 04, 2013 3:28 am

Quoting WestJet747 (Reply 1):
Believe it or not, heads-of-state have the right to be paid as well, and I think "President of the United States of America" is a little more stressful than your average CEO.

  

Especially when some CEO's can leave with an 8 figure golden parachute for f*cking up royally.

Quoting Boeing717200 (Reply 6):
Quoting WestJet747 (Reply 1):
The President gives up $20,000 in salary and you're insulted?

He spends that much just flying to single golf outing.

Where were you when his predecessors were doing the exact same thing. A lot of business deals get done on the golf course so why not very important political decisions.

The resaon that this is done is that there are two ways to know the character of the one you are signing a deal with: Get them drunk or take them golfing. I am sure Clinton/Gingrich and Reagan/O'neill did the same thing.
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cws818
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RE: Obama To Take A 5% Pay Cut...

Thu Apr 04, 2013 5:44 am

Quoting Pyrex (Reply 8):
Heck, he's never had a real job in his life

Have you?

Quoting Pyrex (Reply 8):
and is a millionaire already

Are you?

Quoting Pyrex (Reply 13):
Simple, if people want to wallow in socialism and live with a gigantic state let them, but don't expect me to pay for it, I will take my skills and hard work to where they might be appreciated and properly rewarded, not frowned upon.

Fantastic! When is your flight? Do you need a ride to the airport?
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seb146
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RE: Obama To Take A 5% Pay Cut...

Thu Apr 04, 2013 5:51 am

Quoting Pyrex (Reply 8):
he's never had a real job in his life

Senator in Illinois, Senator in Washington, DC, president, editor of Harvard Law Review. Nope. Never worked a day in his life. Just lounged around sipping mai-tais on the beach...
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cws818
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RE: Obama To Take A 5% Pay Cut...

Thu Apr 04, 2013 5:51 am

Quoting WestJet747 (Reply 12):
Quoting Pyrex (Reply 8):
Heck, he's never had a real job in his life

Not sure if you're being facetious or elitist...


Flying refined.

Neither, Pyrex is being loud and ignorant. Everyone needs a hobby. Being boorish seems to be his.

[Edited 2013-04-03 22:57:20]
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Pyrex
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RE: Obama To Take A 5% Pay Cut...

Thu Apr 04, 2013 6:50 am

Quoting StarAC17 (Reply 14):
A lot of business deals get done on the golf course so why not very important political decisions.

Simple - if a company decides to spend money on T&E, they do so using money that shareholders decided to entrust them with, more likely money their clients voluntarily paid them for. If government decides to spend money on T&E, they do so with money that was forcibly taken from people who had no choice in the matter. That is why T&E policies in the "public" sector cannot and are not the same as in the private sector.

Quoting cws818 (Reply 15):

Fantastic! When is your flight? Do you need a ride to the airport?

You've missed that boat several years ago...

Quoting seb146 (Reply 16):
Senator in Illinois, Senator in Washington, DC, president, editor of Harvard Law Review. Nope. Never worked a day in his life

Being a politician is not a job, it is (or should be) a service you do after you have had a successful career at something, not something you do professionally. And exactly how much of his net worth came from being a co-editor on a school newspaper during grad school?

The reality is that he never worked a single day in his life in the private sector: never had to provide a good or service people were willing to pay for more than what it cost to make or provide, never had to manage to a budget, never had to worry about responding to someone or generating a bottom-line. So no, he has never had a real job a day in his life and that is what causes his warped view of the private sector as merely something he can exploit to implement his policies.
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pvjin
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RE: Obama To Take A 5% Pay Cut...

Thu Apr 04, 2013 10:10 am

Who cares Pyrex? Obama is the best president in ages. Already the fact that you don't like him proves it.

Setting more taxes to the filthy rich is always a great thing, United States needs more social equality.

[Edited 2013-04-04 03:11:16]
"Optimism is the madness of insisting that all is well when we are miserable." - Voltaire
 
cmf
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RE: Obama To Take A 5% Pay Cut...

Thu Apr 04, 2013 10:53 am

Quoting Pyrex (Reply 18):
Being a politician is not a job, it is (or should be) a service you do after you have had a successful career at something, not something you do professionally.

This pretty much summarizes the problem with your argument. Politics is far too important to be handled by people with little interest for what happens as total. It affects individuals and the country too much to be handled by people who do it for single cause or time filler to make retirement more interesting.
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romeobravo
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RE: Obama To Take A 5% Pay Cut...

Thu Apr 04, 2013 12:06 pm

Quoting pvjin (Reply 19):
Setting more taxes to the filthy rich is always a great thing, United States needs more social equality.

How utterly naive and juvenile. Discouraging the most productive from working is a sure-fire way to diminish the economy.

I really wish some people would try and consider the unintended consequences of their actions before they open their mouths.

Obama is a disaster for America, almost as bad as his predecessor.
 
IMissPiedmont
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RE: Obama To Take A 5% Pay Cut...

Thu Apr 04, 2013 12:45 pm

If he really meant to cut government spending and had any courage he'd cut military spending 30%.
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Starbuk7
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RE: Obama To Take A 5% Pay Cut...

Thu Apr 04, 2013 1:39 pm

Quoting WestJet747 (Reply 1):
The President gives up $20,000 in salary and you're insulted?


Sure, he is taking a 5% hit while every other federal employee going on furlough is taking a 20% hit. That's really fair isn't it? He is just so full of himself while he still goes on his golf trips and his family has been of vacation since this all started.
 
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pvjin
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RE: Obama To Take A 5% Pay Cut...

Thu Apr 04, 2013 1:52 pm

Quoting Starbuk7 (Reply 25):
Sure, he is taking a 5% hit while every other federal employee going on furlough is taking a 20% hit. That's really fair isn't it? He is just so full of himself while he still goes on his golf trips and his family has been of vacation since this all started.

Hah you think that kinda behavior is something unusual for high ranking politicians? No, it's a norm.

Around here our prime minister earns more than David Cameron, our capitals mayor and vice-mayor and mayor tried to give each other a huge salary raise during these harsh economic times (thankfully that one was blocked)...

The list of these things is endless. If you seriously think that some other president would have cut his salary any more than Obama is doing you are wrong.
"Optimism is the madness of insisting that all is well when we are miserable." - Voltaire
 
CMHSRQ
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RE: Obama To Take A 5% Pay Cut...

Thu Apr 04, 2013 1:58 pm

I'll admit, I had hope for Obama, now it's cope. I strongly disliked Bush, and I find that all Obama has done is taken Bush policies and ramped them up. Obama's policies are worse than Bush's, they just don't seem to be reported. With the exception of gay marriage. (which I support)

Obama blasts the 1% but he is a perfect example of the 1%. Obama has more vacations, more Air Force One trips, more assinations via hellfire missles, twice the national debt, more patroit act, more TSA, more taxes, less transparency, less freedom.

If Obama was a Republican then he would probably be considered worse than Bush.

What they should do is cut all pay and benifits to the President, congress, and the senate, and sequester them to Washington DC and not let them leave until they fix the easily fixable problems that this country is facing.
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pvjin
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RE: Obama To Take A 5% Pay Cut...

Thu Apr 04, 2013 2:22 pm

Really the ultimate fix for a lot of the things would be cutting 30 to 50% from US military, it's after all huge money eater and people there mostly do nothing productive.

Of course after that United States couldn't keep playing world police as effectively as before, but who cares? Surely you don't need more than half of current US military to effectively defend your country from any possible threat.
"Optimism is the madness of insisting that all is well when we are miserable." - Voltaire
 
romeobravo
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RE: Obama To Take A 5% Pay Cut...

Thu Apr 04, 2013 2:36 pm

The US needs to make a huge amounts of cuts and military is certainly an area with scope for that. 2% of GDP seems a good figure - not 4%! However, cuts to defense alone won't come anywhere near filling the hole.
 
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DeltaMD90
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RE: Obama To Take A 5% Pay Cut...

Thu Apr 04, 2013 3:01 pm

Meh, I'll give the benefit of the doubt, but personally, I think it could've been a bit better. What I really want to see is Congress get cut pretty heavily
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Kiwirob
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RE: Obama To Take A 5% Pay Cut...

Thu Apr 04, 2013 3:34 pm

Quoting WestJet747 (Reply 1):
If my Prime Minister willingly cut his pay by any amount I would have absolutely no problem with it, let alone get insulted.

The New Zealand PM John Key donates his pay to charity. He's paid 411,000 NZD, which is approx 350,000 USD.
 
AeroWesty
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RE: Obama To Take A 5% Pay Cut...

Thu Apr 04, 2013 5:02 pm

Having read through all of the replies and considered all of the opinions, I'm left with the impression that no matter what Obama did in this situation, no one would be left happy. Personally, I'm glad that he's at least made some kind of gesture, which is a lot more than any other president has done in regards to their salary during an economic downturn.
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RussianJet
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RE: Obama To Take A 5% Pay Cut...

Thu Apr 04, 2013 5:34 pm

Quoting alberchico (Thread starter):
Really just 5% ? That is actually more insulting than helpful.

Let's face it - he didn't stand a chance of being right whatever he chose to do, did he? He could work for free and you'd probably still be 'insulted'.
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zckls04
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RE: Obama To Take A 5% Pay Cut...

Thu Apr 04, 2013 5:35 pm

Quote:
And exactly how much of his net worth came from being a co-editor on a school newspaper during grad school?

Well, it was good practice since most of his money came from the books he authored.

Quoting Pyrex (Reply 18):
The reality is that he never worked a single day in his life in the private sector:

Why does being in the private sector matter? Are people in the public sector never hard workers?

Quoting RomeoBravo (Reply 39):
I want to see people keep the fruit of their labour. Others seem to want to steal money from high earners and give it to people who didn't earn it. Completely disrupting the work/reward incentive and resulting in a poorer economy for everyone.

That only makes sense if the highest earners always produce the most value, which isn't always the case.
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CalebWilliams
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RE: Obama To Take A 5% Pay Cut...

Thu Apr 04, 2013 5:41 pm

Quoting zckls04 (Reply 42):
That only makes sense if the highest earners always produce the most value, which isn't always the case.

RB can't let Reaganomics go, I would ignore it. It just devalues those that do work hard aren't in the upper echelon.
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rfields5421
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RE: Obama To Take A 5% Pay Cut...

Thu Apr 04, 2013 6:08 pm

Quoting alberchico (Thread starter):
Really just 5% ?

Just one thought/ question

How did the other 525 idiots in Congress give up of their salary?
And the Cabinet Secretaries?

Every single one of them is just as responsible for this mess as the President.
 
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zckls04
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RE: Obama To Take A 5% Pay Cut...

Thu Apr 04, 2013 6:14 pm

Quoting rfields5421 (Reply 44):
Just one thought/ question

How did the other 525 idiots in Congress give up of their salary?

Tricky one though isn't it. One could argue with a lot of these radical left wingers or right wingers that they are representing their electorate. Many were voted in on an extreme platform, by people who (presumably) want no compromise on anything.

It's a curious dichotomy. By the standards of electoral representation (and after all they are called as such) they are probably doing very well. Yet almost everybody agrees as a unit they are doing an appalling job.
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StarAC17
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RE: Obama To Take A 5% Pay Cut...

Thu Apr 04, 2013 6:43 pm

Quoting zckls04 (Reply 45):
It's a curious dichotomy. By the standards of electoral representation (and after all they are called as such) they are probably doing very well. Yet almost everybody agrees as a unit they are doing an appalling job.

At the end of the day all politics is local and the reason that the same people in congress get elected is that they do good for their districts and will seek the pork barrel spending for their district while railing on another congressman for doing the same thing.

Quoting pvjin (Reply 40):
I've read enough stories about people with serious diseases and such having to suffer because they lack money to pay for the ridiculously expensive medical operations in the US... That alone makes me to happily pay all the taxes as I get proper healthcare in return.

The biggest thing about taxes that no one talks about is that if you as a taxpayer feel you are getting value for the money you pay to the government then you are more inclined to give more of it. In your case in Finland and a lot of European countries you see more value in what your tax money produces.

In the US however the government is seen as inefficient, wasteful and corrupt with tax money which is why many people have a sour attitude towards taxes. I bet if you compared Helsinki with a US city of a similar size there is probably next to no public corruption in HEL as compared to lets say Chicago.
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bhill
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RE: Obama To Take A 5% Pay Cut...

Thu Apr 04, 2013 7:04 pm

Pyrex, you just pissed of ALOT of career soldiers, sailors, aimen, etc...public service....I know MANY of the aforementioned that joined up just out of high school and stayed for the duration...If your measure of a person's work is where they work rather that what they produce....Ask the folks on Wall Street....

Yeah, we are STILL feeling the pain of the stuff they produced...
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cmf
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RE: Obama To Take A 5% Pay Cut...

Thu Apr 04, 2013 7:35 pm

Quoting RomeoBravo (Reply 39):
I want to see people keep the fruit of their labour. Others seem to want to steal money from high earners and give it to people who didn't earn it.

Until we get the income gap between high and low full time income to a reasonable proportion, prob around 30 times, this point is void.

Quoting RomeoBravo (Reply 39):
Completely disrupting the work/reward incentive and resulting in a poorer economy for everyone.

Completely disrupting work/reward incentive? What ideological black hole are you in? You can set the tax at 99% and the people who create value will continue to do so. Not that it is that high anywhere.

Quoting RomeoBravo (Reply 46):
if you give poor people money they'll spend it and boost the economy thus it's good... but that is not the case.

Care to tell us what happens with the money..... They save it?
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RussianJet
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RE: Obama To Take A 5% Pay Cut...

Thu Apr 04, 2013 7:39 pm

Quoting cmf (Reply 54):
Until we get the income gap between high and low full time income to a reasonable proportion, prob around 30 times, this point is void.

   Also pretty void so long as we have people around who can't afford bread.
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romeobravo
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RE: Obama To Take A 5% Pay Cut...

Thu Apr 04, 2013 7:53 pm

Quoting cmf (Reply 54):
You can set the tax at 99% and the people who create value will continue to do so.

No.

Now let's say you put it at a more realistic high figure say 70%. The people who own all the factories might carry on because after all what do they have to lose. But you can bet your bottom dollar very few people are going to bother competing or climbing the ladder. You won't get many Richard Bransons if they have to take all the risk but only get 30% of the rewards.

Quoting cmf (Reply 54):
Care to tell us what happens with the money..... They save it?

They put money in the bank, which is lent out to business who use it to invest in capital and improve their efficiency.

Now before you go wild, i'm well aware that central banks and fiat currency have more or less completely destroyed the system, which is why we are in such a mess today.

Quoting RussianJet (Reply 55):
Also pretty void so long as we have people around who can't afford bread.

It's not void at all. The best way to make sure everyone can afford bread is by allowing people to innovate in making bread cheaply. You can only get rich by enriching other, making a cheap an affordable source of bread would be a good start to gaining riches.

Look at what FR did with flying. They made it cheap for people to fly and now are one of the most successful airlines going. MOL must make a lot of money, but he's provided huge levels of value to others.

[Edited 2013-04-04 13:06:40]
 
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EA CO AS
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RE: Obama To Take A 5% Pay Cut...

Thu Apr 04, 2013 8:42 pm

Quoting WestJet747 (Reply 1):
Believe it or not, heads-of-state have the right to be paid as well

Even when they perform poorly at their job?

Quoting pvjin (Reply 19):
Obama is the best president in ages.

Are you sure you don't want to be a nightclub comic? Because you're a really, REALLY funny guy!  
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mt99
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RE: Obama To Take A 5% Pay Cut...

Thu Apr 04, 2013 8:57 pm

Quoting EA CO AS (Reply 59):

Even when they perform poorly at their job?

Did you have a problem with GWB' salary?
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Braniff747SP
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RE: Obama To Take A 5% Pay Cut...

Thu Apr 04, 2013 10:24 pm

Regardless of what one thinks about the guy, he is the president of the United States. He should be paid a decent salary and $20,000 doesn't even register on the budget (nor do salaries for politicians as a whole, by the way--a miniscule amount of money in comparison to the rest.) He should keep the five percent...
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EA CO AS
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RE: Obama To Take A 5% Pay Cut...

Thu Apr 04, 2013 10:31 pm

Quoting mt99 (Reply 60):
Quoting EA CO AS (Reply 59):
Even when they perform poorly at their job?
Did you have a problem with GWB' salary?

No, but then again in my opinion he didn't perform poorly. And spare me a response; it'll just give me a headache and be of no use.
"In this present crisis, government is not the solution to our problem - government IS the problem." - Ronald Reagan

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romeobravo
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RE: Obama To Take A 5% Pay Cut...

Thu Apr 04, 2013 10:45 pm

Quoting EA CO AS (Reply 64):
No, but then again in my opinion he didn't perform poorly. And spare me a response; it'll just give me a headache and be of no use.

I can't see how one can defend GWB personally.

He got us involved in some terrible middle east entanglements and created one of the biggest economic bubbles in history.

Granted he was basically a puppet to all of that but that's no excuse.
 
WestJet747
Posts: 1950
Joined: Sat Aug 06, 2011 7:43 pm

RE: Obama To Take A 5% Pay Cut...

Fri Apr 05, 2013 1:52 am

Quoting EA CO AS (Reply 59):
Quoting WestJet747 (Reply 1):
Believe it or not, heads-of-state have the right to be paid as well

Even when they perform poorly at their job?

Yes. The good thing about heads-of-state is that if you don't like the job they're doing, you get to vote them out (or in this case, he has to leave office due to term limits, but you get the idea).

Anyway, how do you decide they are doing poorly and thus don't deserve to get paid? Hold an expensive vote to determine it?
Flying refined.
 
seb146
Posts: 13751
Joined: Wed Dec 01, 1999 7:19 am

RE: Obama To Take A 5% Pay Cut...

Fri Apr 05, 2013 2:35 am

Quoting RomeoBravo (Reply 43):
but it sounds like you subscribe to the theory that if you give poor people money they'll spend it and boost the economy thus it's good... but that is not the case.

Except it has worked every time it was done. Don't let facts get in the way of your argument. W had the feds send out checks to every person in the country. Clinton cut tax rates on the poor and raised them on the rich. What happened? The economy came back. Just a little in W case and a lot in Clinton's case.

But that was all a myth, I suppose.
Life in the wall is a drag.
 
mt99
Posts: 6166
Joined: Wed May 26, 1999 5:41 am

RE: Obama To Take A 5% Pay Cut...

Fri Apr 05, 2013 2:38 am

Quoting WestJet747 (Reply 63):
how do you decide they are doing poorly and thus don't deserve to get paid? Hold an expensive vote to determine it?

Its easy - you just ask him who is deserving.

Quoting EA CO AS (Reply 61):
id you have a problem with GWB' salary?

No, but then again in my opinion he didn't perform poorly.
Step into my office, baby
 
Mir
Posts: 19092
Joined: Mon Jan 05, 2004 3:55 am

RE: Obama To Take A 5% Pay Cut...

Fri Apr 05, 2013 7:36 am

Quoting RomeoBravo (Reply 21):
Discouraging the most productive from working is a sure-fire way to diminish the economy.

Marginally higher taxes don't discourage people from working. The people who create the really valuable stuff in the world don't do it because they want to be rich, they do it because they want to create something that will help people, or will change the world, or just something that they think is cool. The money comes after that.

Would Google or Facebook really not exist if their owners had to pay a bit more in taxes? I very much doubt it. In fact, I very much doubt they'd be any different from the way we know them today.

You can, of course, take that to an extreme and then you'll get a negative impact on productivity, but people act like any increase at all will discourage innovation, when that's really not the case.

Quoting RomeoBravo (Reply 32):
The rich get richer, the poor get richer too.

Except that that's not happening. Lower income wages are relatively stagnant, while upper income wages just keep getting bigger.

The "a rising tide lifts all boats" theory has had a lot of time to prove itself, and yet it hasn't.

Quoting RomeoBravo (Reply 53):
Now let's say you put it at a more realistic high figure say 70%.

But is that really that realistic? The number you hear bandied about in the US is 40% as opposed to 35% - that's a world away from 70%.

-Mir
7 billion, one nation, imagination...it's a beautiful day

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