PHX787
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Windows 8- Apparently, Not Worth It

Sat Apr 13, 2013 4:27 pm

Well Windows 8 was released with a lot of hype...but recent articles which have crossed my eyes have said that Windows 8 has been branded a "failure" as PC shipments are lowest in 20 years.......

And for a youngster like me, 20 years is a damn long time. Hell I don't even remember anyone in my family having a computer 20 years ago;.

http://www.ibtimes.co.uk/articles/45...indows-8-blamed-pc-sales-slump.htm

Apparently the interface is seen as cluttered and too complex to use, especially for those who are already really accustomed to the old way that Microsoft organized things in previous operating system layouts.

I dumped Micro-shaft (lol) in 2010 and went for Mac...despite some sketchy customer service issues and some hardware problems, I have very few regrets, and will continue owning macs.

Microsoft....well seems like they're digging themselves a nice hole with this one....wasn't the idea of Windows 8 supposed to be "simplify?"
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CXfirst
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RE: Windows 8- Apparently, Not Worth It

Sat Apr 13, 2013 4:51 pm

I've got Windows 8 on a non-touch, ordinary laptop. Had Windows 7 and 'upgraded' to 8 for free (got it for free through dreamspark). It wasn't really worth it, but it isn't a problem either.

Windows 8 isn't that bad, I wouldn't avoid it, and would happily buy a computer with it (if I was in the need for a new computer), but I wouldn't pay for the upgrade either.

-CXfirst
 
Akiestar
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RE: Windows 8- Apparently, Not Worth It

Sat Apr 13, 2013 4:54 pm

I wholeheartedly disagree. I'm using Windows 8 on a MacBook Pro out of all devices (currently out of necessity as my Mac OS partition refuses to boot and I will have to reformat this computer's hard drive at some point in the future), and I am very happy with it. The learning curve is also not as bad as people say it is, and it is easy to use. Metro coupled with the old desktop is supposed to bring out the best of both worlds for those who want both new AND old Windows experiences, and it does so perfectly well, save for a hitch or two (i.e. Skype for Windows 8).

It also helps that I got to snag a free copy of Windows 8 through my university. Big grin

[Edited 2013-04-13 09:55:36]
 
Braniff747SP
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RE: Windows 8- Apparently, Not Worth It

Sat Apr 13, 2013 5:01 pm

I can't stand Windows 8. I use Windows 7 daily (I'm 100% a Mac person) for school and it is a great, solid OS. WIndows 8 with its made-for-touch interface is a pain to use, and I really hate Metro. Apparently, we're being forced to upgrade our ThinkPads next year to Windows 8; I'm hoping there will be a way to circumvent it.
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Asturias
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RE: Windows 8- Apparently, Not Worth It

Sat Apr 13, 2013 5:08 pm

Quoting Akiestar (Reply 2):
I wholeheartedly disagree.

Me too!

Windows 8 is by far the best OS Microsoft has ever published, I can't recommend it enough. It's on par with OS X and has a great user experience.

Can't recommend it enough, Windows 8 is the OS that convinced me to move from the Mac to Windows.
Tonight we fly
 
Rara
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RE: Windows 8- Apparently, Not Worth It

Sat Apr 13, 2013 5:10 pm

Windows 8 is definitely okay. It's not that much of an improvement over Windows 7, but it's clearly better than Windows 7.

I don't think it's a good idea to track the declining PC sales back to Windows 8. The PC form factor is slowly falling out of favour for a lot of use-cases. Especially tablets are rapidly replacing PCs and notebook for a lot of people. That has been predicted for years, so it shouldn't come as a surprise.

Also I'll suggest that the PC is, to some extent, the victim of its own success. Unlike notebooks, which suffer a lot more wear and tear, especially due to battery degradation, and unlike tablets which become outdated very quickly nowadays, the PC is a solid and relatively long-lasting purchase today. If a regular user bought a PC three years ago, chances are it's still going strong and there's no need to replace it. A notebook bought three years ago may already show some age, and the user may already think about a replacement. And a tablet bought three years ago...   is likely to be an iPad 1 and probably already replaced. PC users can stay with their product a long time, and that may be a reason why sales are declining.
Samson was a biblical tough guy, but his dad Samsonite was even more of a hard case.
 
ALTF4
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RE: Windows 8- Apparently, Not Worth It

Sat Apr 13, 2013 5:20 pm

Windows 8 is far better than Windows 7 when it gets to some issues with the kernel, memory protection, and the deep, deep internal workings of the computer.

The user interface? I don't like it.
The above post is my opinion. Don't like it? Don't read it.
 
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Dreadnought
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RE: Windows 8- Apparently, Not Worth It

Sat Apr 13, 2013 5:29 pm

Quoting Asturias (Reply 4):
Windows 8 is by far the best OS Microsoft has ever published, I can't recommend it enough. It's on par with OS X and has a great user experience.

As I understand it, they have tailored the interface to be optimized for touch screens. WTF do I want a touchscreen interface when I mostly use a computer for Excel, SQL, Access, and similar programs? Unless you have a tablet, who wants to have fingerprints all over your PC screen?

They should have optimized it for standard mouse-and-keyboard, with touchscreen capability as an option for the 1or 2% who might be interested, not the other way around.
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mdsh00
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RE: Windows 8- Apparently, Not Worth It

Sat Apr 13, 2013 5:35 pm

Windows 8 is really not that bad. I have it on my new laptop and once you learn some of the gestures, it works fine and very smoothly. Metro takes some getting used to but in reality, the way that I use this laptop, I usually bypass it and use the desktop which is still easily available.

PC sales are declining because of smartphones and tablets, not Win8.
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bueb0g
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RE: Windows 8- Apparently, Not Worth It

Sat Apr 13, 2013 5:37 pm

Quoting PHX787 (Thread starter):
Windows 8 has been branded a "failure" as PC shipments are lowest in 20 years.......

The biggest DROP in 20 years, not the lowest in 20 years. Still higher sales than almost every other year in the past 2 decades.
Roger roger, what's our vector, victor?
 
Asturias
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RE: Windows 8- Apparently, Not Worth It

Sat Apr 13, 2013 5:50 pm

Quoting Dreadnought (Reply 7):
As I understand it, they have tailored the interface to be optimized for touch screens. WTF do I want a touchscreen interface when I mostly use a computer for Excel, SQL, Access, and similar programs? Unless you have a tablet, who wants to have fingerprints all over your PC screen?

That's a misunderstanding, Windows 8 has an interface that's great for touchscreens - true - but that interface is completely optional.

To a user who has a mouse and a keyboard it is pretty much transparent and when one does want to use that part of the OS (i.e. Tiles) it works perfectly with a mouse and keyboard.

The Tiles interface is a great boon to mouse users actually, as a replacement for the Start menu. Windows 8 is as optimized for touch interface as one wants it to be, it is in fact as much optimized for mouse and keyboard.
Tonight we fly
 
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AirPacific747
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RE: Windows 8- Apparently, Not Worth It

Sat Apr 13, 2013 6:46 pm

I have Windows 8 on my laptop without touch. It isn't causing any problems but I found that I only use my laptop in the Windows classic desktop mode. So the metro style part for me was a failure. I purchased a Surface RT tablet but sold it very quickly. I wasn't satisfied with the responsiveness and the display quality either. The RT was a mistake. Maybe a Surface pro is better to showcase windows 8
 
captaink
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RE: Windows 8- Apparently, Not Worth It

Sat Apr 13, 2013 6:54 pm

I used Windows since 3.1. I have owned every version. I upgraded my machine to Windows and enjoyed only the performance and UI changes in traditional desktop. However, this OS bring little new to the table. It doesn´t make traditional desktop computing any more efficient, no new ways of window management, nothing. Except a useless Modern UI, that offer no traditional desktop computing benefits. Sure it is perfect for a tablet, but the majority of Windows users use desktop applications. SO what is the point? I tried installing some applications and using them in Modern UI, Mail, messenger etc, but I ended up uninstalling them, and installing their desktop counterparts. I use an external monitor with my laptop, so full screen apps are not the best options. Anyhow I got frustrated, and was rather annoyed with MSFT. I have since sold my Lenovo and bought a MacBook Air. OSX is leaps and bounds ahead of Windows in some ways. I love the notifications, the App Centre, Window management, It is a really wonderful OS. I am big Ubuntu fan, but I need to use certain mainstream apps, so OSX feels like a very comfortable middle ground. I imagine for at least the rest of my PhD I will be a OSX user. Additional benefits lie with the fact that I can sync stuff quite seamlessly with my iPHone.
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RussianJet
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RE: Windows 8- Apparently, Not Worth It

Sat Apr 13, 2013 7:12 pm

I had a play with Windows 8 for the first time recently. All I can say is this - yuck.
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Thunderboltdrgn
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RE: Windows 8- Apparently, Not Worth It

Sat Apr 13, 2013 8:08 pm

Quoting mdsh00 (Reply 8):
PC sales are declining because of smartphones and tablets, not Win8.

I think the current financial situation in the world contributes as well as well.
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Dreadnought
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RE: Windows 8- Apparently, Not Worth It

Sat Apr 13, 2013 8:13 pm

Quoting Asturias (Reply 10):
To a user who has a mouse and a keyboard it is pretty much transparent and when one does want to use that part of the OS (i.e. Tiles) it works perfectly with a mouse and keyboard.

The Tiles interface is a great boon to mouse users actually, as a replacement for the Start menu. Windows 8 is as optimized for touch interface as one wants it to be, it is in fact as much optimized for mouse and keyboard.

Users seem to disagree - Third-party software that restores the old Start menu interface has become a booming industry.
Forget dogs and cats - Spay and neuter your liberals.
 
Rara
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RE: Windows 8- Apparently, Not Worth It

Sat Apr 13, 2013 8:57 pm

Quoting Dreadnought (Reply 15):
Users seem to disagree - Third-party software that restores the old Start menu interface has become a booming industry.

With close to 100 million Windows 8 copies sold, if even one percent of users restore the old Start menu with an add-on programme, that makes for impressive download counts.


I don't think the new start-up screen is the make-it-or-break-it of Windows 8. To me, it's just a fancy new start menu. One that's very easy to customize and fast to navigate, but not as convenient as the old start menu when you want to get to programs which you don't often use. Nonetheless, most users on a PC spend most of their time on the desktop. The desktop is still very similar to Windows 7, but improved in various ways, and part of a very fast, clean and stable OS environment.

Again, it's not revolutionary, but I wouldn't want to go back to Windows 7. To have the computer boot up in a matter of seconds is hard to go without, once you've gotten used to it.
Samson was a biblical tough guy, but his dad Samsonite was even more of a hard case.
 
Ken777
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RE: Windows 8- Apparently, Not Worth It

Sat Apr 13, 2013 10:07 pm

I believe that if you can set it to the classic Windows appearance then it will be OK for a lot of users. Biggest problem I see is that it will present too much difference for the average office worker. They could care less about the bells & whistles - they just want their apps to work and not to slow down.
 
mmedford
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RE: Windows 8- Apparently, Not Worth It

Sat Apr 13, 2013 10:10 pm

http://www.startisback.com/

Best $5 I ever spent...
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cjg225
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RE: Windows 8- Apparently, Not Worth It

Sat Apr 13, 2013 10:21 pm

Microsoft is nothing if not consistent.

Let's review:

95 - awesome
98 First Edition - awful
98 Second Edition - awesome
Millennium Edition - Like a dog humping your leg
XP - awesome
Vista - words cannot describe this disaster
7 - awesome
8 - Predictably bad

I can only hope the NEXT version keeps with the pattern, because, like with Vista, I'll be doing my best to skip 8.

In all fairness, 3.1 was pretty good, too, so the trend, as I've described it, started with 95. If I do skip 8 it'll be only the second time I've skipped a build since 3.0 came out (the other time being Vista).
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Boeing717200
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RE: Windows 8- Apparently, Not Worth It

Sun Apr 14, 2013 12:18 am

It's fast, but I wish you could simply choose to use it with or without metro in the settings. The major flaws:

The picture manager is horrible.
Integrated outlook is a joke.
The store doesn't have much and no one is interested.

Windows could have simply made windows 8 as fast as it is and dumped the gimmicks.
 
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cjg225
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RE: Windows 8- Apparently, Not Worth It

Sun Apr 14, 2013 3:32 am

What did they do to Picture Manager?

Oddly, I find Microsoft Office Picture Manager to be one of the most useful tools in Windows.
Restoring Penn State's transportation heritage...
 
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kngkyle
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RE: Windows 8- Apparently, Not Worth It

Sun Apr 14, 2013 3:38 am

The people who use Windows 8 for a half hour and decide they hate it really don't get a proper sense of the operating system, which is a failure on Microsofts part. They should have a very clear way to switch between tablet and desktop mode, and be able to set either as the default. Trying to mix the two doesn't really work and adds confusion. It's a simple and easy fix to make it how it should be - but you shouldn't have to do it, and most people won't even know about it. Shame really, since it's a great operating system for both tablets and desktops that now has a damaged reputation.

Hopefully with SP1 they'll respond to the negative feedback and make some of the mentioned fixes.

As far as Windows 8 causing a slow down in PC sales, I have to agree what others have said. Tablets & smartphones are taking away the need for PCs. That is what is slowing down PC sales - not Windows 8.
 
bueb0g
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RE: Windows 8- Apparently, Not Worth It

Sun Apr 14, 2013 9:45 am

Quoting cjg225 (Reply 19):
8 - Predictably bad

It's really not "bad", and the question isn't whether it's bad or not. The question is whether it's worth an upgrade from Win7 - whether the improvement is enough to justify it existing. It's slightly faster, and has the metro tabs instead of a start menu. Apart from that, it IS Windows 7 - is it enough of a difference to warrant a new OS? Maybe not...
Roger roger, what's our vector, victor?
 
MD-90
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RE: Windows 8- Apparently, Not Worth It

Sun Apr 14, 2013 9:46 am

The simple reason is that for the vast majority of users their computer hardware (especially if they have a desktop) simply doesn't need upgrading. My desktop is from 2008 so it's almost 5 years old now and it still works perfectly fine. Last year I replaced the video card (which was a nice performance enhancement for $120) and the year before that added a wifi card. Wouldn't mind a faster processor to speed up video rendering but I don't really need it. Also quite happy with Vista.

For surfing the internet, watching movies, playing games (for the non-hardcore gamers), using Word, making Powerpoints, etc. you just don't need to upgrade as often as you used to.
 
CaptCufflinks
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RE: Windows 8- Apparently, Not Worth It

Sun Apr 14, 2013 11:27 am

I really dislike the 'leap' that 8 had made - it's quite good fun on a touch screen, but I am hoping that 8 is a fad that won't be the trend of things to come.

Give me XP Pro anytime..!
 
CplKlinger
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RE: Windows 8- Apparently, Not Worth It

Sun Apr 14, 2013 1:29 pm

The drop in PC sales can also be attributed to two things I have yet to see mentioned: PC's are lasting longer and people are more comfortable with doing their own upgrades. Most people are using the same PC for 4-7 years now versus the early 2000's when they'd upgrade the whole thing every two years. They're also more comfortable with adding their own memory/extra hard drives/video cards/etc, so they can keep it running longer.

As far as the Windows 8 hatred goes, I use it on my desktop and it's faster and more stable than 7. It usually takes longer to POST than it does to hit the login screen. It also handles several things "in house" that used to require extra apps, like native .iso mounting. It's also much better at the internals as has been mentioned. I've been archiving my DVD's this weekend and I've been able to rip, convert, listen to iTunes and surf the net at the same time with no slow downs on any part. I'm pretty sure if I did that under 7 something would fail.
 
CXfirst
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RE: Windows 8- Apparently, Not Worth It

Sun Apr 14, 2013 3:07 pm

Quoting Rara (Reply 16):
but not as convenient as the old start menu when you want to get to programs which you don't often use

For me its not any slower, as I've always used the Windows key then straight to typing the program name. If you used to press start, then navigate the popup menus, then yes, the new version is slower.

-CXfirst
 
rfields5421
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RE: Windows 8- Apparently, Not Worth It

Sun Apr 14, 2013 3:16 pm

Quoting PHX787 (Thread starter):
especially for those who are already really accustomed to the old way

That's not the target audience of the new interface, which is why most folks I know who have Win8 use the classic interface.

Quoting PHX787 (Thread starter):
wasn't the idea of Windows 8 supposed to be "simplify?"

The "simplify" is for folks with smart phones and tablets. Who want to do everything by touch based on the Apple iPhone and iPad type interface - which we see now on Android and Windows phones.

For folks who have abandoned the Windows computer for those devices were the target market - to bring them back to the power of the PC with a 'simplier' interface like their phones and tables.

Quoting mdsh00 (Reply 8):
PC sales are declining because of smartphones and tablets, not Win8.

Most people don't need the power of a PC (Mac or Win) for e-mail, photos, web browsing, social networking. That is the reason PC sales are not rising at record rates. People realize a $500 tablet does everything they need rather than having to buy a $1200 laptop. Or even worse, having a 1.8 lb tablet beats the heck out of a 4 lb laptop.

Quoting cjg225 (Reply 19):
95 - awesome
98 First Edition - awful
98 Second Edition - awesome
Millennium Edition - Like a dog humping your leg
XP - awesome
Vista - words cannot describe this disaster
7 - awesome
8 - Predictably bad

Left out Win2000 - which was pretty awesome, though the upgrade to XP was even better.
 
Asturias
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RE: Windows 8- Apparently, Not Worth It

Sun Apr 14, 2013 4:23 pm

Quoting Dreadnought (Reply 15):
Users seem to disagree - Third-party software that restores the old Start menu interface has become a booming industry.

Most users of Windows 8 seem to disagree - I don't know why you feel it's productive to be contrarian, but that's neither here nor there. There's always some people who just refuse to adopt to something new.

The Start menu was very limited, Tiles is the new Start menu and then some.

Either way, the OS isn't limited to Tiles, in fact far from it - Tiles is a useful addition, but one can choose how much one uses that particular interface.

So compared to Windows 7, there's no question Windows 8 is a step forward - not a major one, but an important one. That being said, it's pretty incredible to see people whine about Windows 8 when it is everything Windows 7 was, except more modern, more advanced and more capable.

Windows 7 = Windows 8

Quite simply.
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Dreadnought
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RE: Windows 8- Apparently, Not Worth It

Sun Apr 14, 2013 4:56 pm

Quoting Asturias (Reply 29):
Most users of Windows 8 seem to disagree - I don't know why you feel it's productive to be contrarian, but that's neither here nor there. There's always some people who just refuse to adopt to something new.

I have been an early adopter of every version of Windows since 3.0, usually buying them within days of release. I love new stuff. But Windows 8 is the first one that leaves me cold just looking at it.
Forget dogs and cats - Spay and neuter your liberals.
 
Ken777
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RE: Windows 8- Apparently, Not Worth It

Sun Apr 14, 2013 5:06 pm

Quoting cjg225 (Reply 19):
Let's review:

And then there was "Bob", which fortunately didn't last too long.

And Longhorn which didn't even get to market.
 
nickh
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RE: Windows 8- Apparently, Not Worth It

Sun Apr 14, 2013 5:31 pm

Quoting Ken777 (Reply 31):
And Longhorn which didn't even get to market.

"Longhorn" was a code-name for a series of technologies that were to be included in future revisions of the Windows NT (and above) Operating Systems. There was never any intention of putting a box on the shelf that you could purchase, labelled "Windows Longhorn".

Whenever someone uses a version of Windows/NT and above, regardless of the version and type, they are running some components of the Longhorn technolog(ies).

-Nick
"We all have wings, but some of us don't know why..."
 
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cjg225
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RE: Windows 8- Apparently, Not Worth It

Sun Apr 14, 2013 6:51 pm

Quoting rfields5421 (Reply 28):
Left out Win2000 - which was pretty awesome, though the upgrade to XP was even better.

Perhaps I should've clarified my criteria. I am talking about only those Windows OSes that are for the entire market. 2000 was the successor to NT (the actually Windows NT brand, not the so-called NT-family) and 2003 was the successor to 2000. All three are business/server OSes.

[Edited 2013-04-14 11:53:12]
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northstardc4m
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RE: Windows 8- Apparently, Not Worth It

Sun Apr 14, 2013 7:58 pm

Quoting cjg225 (Reply 33):
Perhaps I should've clarified my criteria. I am talking about only those Windows OSes that are for the entire market. 2000 was the successor to NT (the actually Windows NT brand, not the so-called NT-family) and 2003 was the successor to 2000. All three are business/server OSes.

Let's clarify THAT for you...

Windows 2000 Professional is NOT the predecessor of 2003
Windows 2000 Server did evolve into 2003
There is no desktop 2003/2007/2010/2013 version, only server.
XP remerged the NT based windows to the end user market.
NT evolved out of windows 3.11
3.1 "led" to 95, 98 and ME
3.11 led to NT4 Workstation, 2000 Pro and XP (and Vista, 7, though 8 is a bit different)
NT4 Server led to 2000 Server, 2003, 2007, 2010, etc

You can see this in the version numbers:

Windows (1.0)
Windows 2 (2.0)
Windows 3 (3.0)
Windows 3.1/Windows for Workgroups 3.11
Windows NT 4.0 Workstation
Windows 2000 Pro (5.0)
Windows XP (5.1)
Windows Vista (6.0)
Windows 7
Windows 8


Windows 95, 98 and ME do not follow the same versioning system, and continued to use the DOS Kernel instead of the NT Kernel.

Server has split off into it's own line and the versions do not mean much to the desktop versions anymore.
Those who would give up Essential Liberty to purchase a little Temporary Safety, deserve neither Liberty nor Safety.
 
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Aesma
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RE: Windows 8- Apparently, Not Worth It

Sun Apr 14, 2013 9:38 pm

Personally I launch most of my software on 7 from a side bar (that I had to buy), a feature dating back to at least Windows 95. I have far too many softs there to work in the tile thing, and I don't want a full screen launcher anyway, as I'm always doing several things at a time (and this on three monitors). So it just doesn't work for me. Also, I like the transparency of 7 and want that back. As for the server side of things, server 2012 was supposed to be great, especially the storage spaces feature, and it's buggy and slow as hell. I'm building myself an OpenIndiana file server instead (based on Open Solaris).

Quoting cjg225 (Reply 19):
In all fairness, 3.1 was pretty good, too, so the trend, as I've described it, started with 95. If I do skip 8 it'll be only the second time I've skipped a build since 3.0 came out (the other time being Vista).

When it came out 95 was pretty buggy, didn't support USB, and was not that great, although shiny. There was a second edition too (not called that way) that was much better.
New Technology is the name we give to stuff that doesn't work yet. Douglas Adams
 
Braniff747SP
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RE: Windows 8- Apparently, Not Worth It

Sun Apr 14, 2013 9:49 pm

Quoting Asturias (Reply 29):
There's always some people who just refuse to adopt to something new.

I'm all for adapting to new things, when they make sense or are a marked improvement.

On a computer, I want to see my desktop, full stop. I don't need Metro giving me information I can find in a click or with a gadget of some sort and taking productivity away.
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CplKlinger
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RE: Windows 8- Apparently, Not Worth It

Sun Apr 14, 2013 10:55 pm

Quoting Braniff747SP (Reply 36):
On a computer, I want to see my desktop, full stop. I don't need Metro giving me information I can find in a click or with a gadget of some sort and taking productivity away.

It takes me less time to start and hit desktop under 8 than it did to get to the desktop alone in 7, even with logging in. It's that much faster on the same machine.
 
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WarRI1
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RE: Windows 8- Apparently, Not Worth It

Mon Apr 15, 2013 12:53 am

My wife now has windows 7. I use windows 8 on a new desktop. I never use the touchscreen feature. My grandson loves windows 8 and the touchscreen feature on his desktop. I like it, it is fast. all the bugs seem to be fixed, there were a few. I had a problem with Norton Security at first, now all seems well.
It is better to die on your feet, than live on your knees.
 
Braniff747SP
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RE: Windows 8- Apparently, Not Worth It

Mon Apr 15, 2013 3:26 am

Quoting CplKlinger (Reply 37):
t takes me less time to start and hit desktop under 8 than it did to get to the desktop alone in 7, even with logging in. It's that much faster on the same machine.

And that's great--why didn't MS just do that without the stupid Metro interface?
The 747 will always be the TRUE queen of the skies!
 
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Revelation
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RE: Windows 8- Apparently, Not Worth It

Mon Apr 15, 2013 9:48 am

I'm no fan of M$, but people need to understand W8 for what it is.

It's damn hard to turn the Windows battleship, and that's what W8 is all about.

Quoting Rara (Reply 5):
I don't think it's a good idea to track the declining PC sales back to Windows 8. The PC form factor is slowly falling out of favour for a lot of use-cases. Especially tablets are rapidly replacing PCs and notebook for a lot of people. That has been predicted for years, so it shouldn't come as a surprise.

Agreed, however the converse is true: one can track Windows 8 to the anticipated decline in PC sales.

Quoting Dreadnought (Reply 7):
As I understand it, they have tailored the interface to be optimized for touch screens. WTF do I want a touchscreen interface when I mostly use a computer for Excel, SQL, Access, and similar programs?

Asked...

Quoting mdsh00 (Reply 8):
reality, the way that I use this laptop, I usually bypass it and use the desktop which is still easily available.

... and answered.

Quoting captaink (Reply 12):
I upgraded my machine to Windows and enjoyed only the performance and UI changes in traditional desktop. However, this OS bring little new to the table. It doesn´t make traditional desktop computing any more efficient, no new ways of window management, nothing. Except a useless Modern UI, that offer no traditional desktop computing benefits. Sure it is perfect for a tablet, but the majority of Windows users use desktop applications. SO what is the point?

The point is to allow the same OS to run on both the desktop and the mobile device so M$ can serve both markets.

Quoting cjg225 (Reply 33):
Perhaps I should've clarified my criteria. I am talking about only those Windows OSes that are for the entire market. 2000 was the successor to NT (the actually Windows NT brand, not the so-called NT-family) and 2003 was the successor to 2000. All three are business/server OSes.

"Business" or not, W2k spent a long time on both my home and work PCs.

Quoting Aesma (Reply 35):
When it came out 95 was pretty buggy, didn't support USB, and was not that great, although shiny.

And, famously, the Internet protocols were an optional install!
Inspiration, move me brightly! Light the song with sense and color.
Hold away despair, more than this I will not ask.
Faced with mysteries dark and vast, statements just seem vain at last.
Some rise, some fall, some climb, to get to Terrapin!
 
captaink
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RE: Windows 8- Apparently, Not Worth It

Mon Apr 15, 2013 12:10 pm

Quoting Revelation (Reply 40):
The point is to allow the same OS to run on both the desktop and the mobile device so M$ can serve both markets.

How is that working out for them.. Yes I know what their end goal was, but the market is obviously not ready for that. Yes many people use tablets in lieu of computers, but when someone wants to use a computer they don´t need a tablet. Modern UI is useless, absolutely useless on a traditional desktop. I tried installing various apps, and at the end, I took them all off because they served no better purpose than the traditional desktop version. Eg. Outlook, Skype, Web Browser, etc....

It is my opinion that greater attention should have been put onto making the desktop even better, but at least they have that going for them, the desktop (the same desktop for years) is pretty good. I like the marked improvement in performance and the new flatter aesthetics, but Modern UI was a waste of time.

Sadly I went over to the other side and it is pretty great, since I loved various linux distros more than Windows, OSX fall right into place.

[Edited 2013-04-15 05:20:36]
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Klaus
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RE: Windows 8- Apparently, Not Worth It

Mon Apr 15, 2013 12:36 pm

Quoting Revelation (Reply 40):
The point is to allow the same OS to run on both the desktop and the mobile device so M$ can serve both markets.

Apple serves both markets, and in each case with an OS that is tailored to the respective segment, while being based on the same OS X foundation technically but each with its own specific UI. This has proven to work very well.

Microsoft attempted to forcibly cram all into the same system, but they have ended up with two separate and incompatible OS versions (8 and RT) with two disjointed and weirdly hooked together UIs each (windowed and touch UIs), producing a mess of four different systems in total, with none of them really satisfying a majority of their users and an utterly confusing system concept.

The idea of unifying everything sounds neat – until you start to think about how to make this a practical reality. In many cases, theoretical ideas need to be abandoned, particularly when those ideas are primarily marketing-driven.

Microsoft's primary target was to leverage their desktop dominance into the mobile field, not considerations from the users' point of view. Ironically, it seems their approach may cost them their previously dominant role in computing overall.
 
bueb0g
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RE: Windows 8- Apparently, Not Worth It

Mon Apr 15, 2013 1:20 pm

Quoting Dreadnought (Reply 7):
They should have optimized it for standard mouse-and-keyboard, with touchscreen capability as an option for the 1or 2% who might be interested, not the other way around.

So use aero and not metro then, it isn't difficult.

Quoting Asturias (Reply 29):
So compared to Windows 7, there's no question Windows 8 is a step forward - not a major one, but an important one. That being said, it's pretty incredible to see people whine about Windows 8 when it is everything Windows 7 was, except more modern, more advanced and more capable.

Windows 7 = Windows 8

Quite simply.

  

Quoting Dreadnought (Reply 30):
But Windows 8 is the first one that leaves me cold just looking at it.

Why though? I'm not very passionate about it either and there's a real questionmark over whether it's a worthwhile upgrade from 7, but it really is just 7, a little faster + an optional new interface. There's nothing not to like, even if you might not like it enough to pay for it.

Quoting Braniff747SP (Reply 36):
On a computer, I want to see my desktop, full stop. I don't need Metro giving me information I can find in a click or with a gadget of some sort and taking productivity away.

Then don't use metro..?

Quoting Braniff747SP (Reply 39):
And that's great--why didn't MS just do that without the stupid Metro interface?

I don't understand this. You're getting *choice*. You don't have to use metro, but it's there if you want it.
Roger roger, what's our vector, victor?
 
Braniff747SP
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RE: Windows 8- Apparently, Not Worth It

Mon Apr 15, 2013 1:24 pm

Quoting bueb0g (Reply 43):

One does have to use Metro. It's the first thing you see.
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vlad135
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RE: Windows 8- Apparently, Not Worth It

Mon Apr 15, 2013 2:13 pm

Quoting Braniff747SP (Reply 44):
One does have to use Metro. It's the first thing you see.

My only complaint about Windows 8 is the lack of a start button. I spent $5 on software that placed the button in its usual place, and made the default (the screen that first loads) the regular Windows desktop, instead of the tiles. With the start button added, I'd say it's no better nor any worse than Windows 7, from a usability point of view. This is on a laptop I bought in December, no touchscreen.

[Edited 2013-04-15 07:13:51]
 
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RE: Windows 8- Apparently, Not Worth It

Mon Apr 15, 2013 2:37 pm

Quoting captaink (Reply 41):
Quoting Revelation (Reply 40):
The point is to allow the same OS to run on both the desktop and the mobile device so M$ can serve both markets.

How is that working out for them..

I'd say better than not having a way to address the mobile device market.

Quoting captaink (Reply 41):
Modern UI is useless, absolutely useless on a traditional desktop. I tried installing various apps, and at the end, I took them all off because they served no better purpose than the traditional desktop version. Eg. Outlook, Skype, Web Browser, etc....

Great, you found something that works well for you. I bet the tablet user is happier with the Modern UI versions, so all is well in the land of M$.

Quoting Klaus (Reply 42):
Microsoft's primary target was to leverage their desktop dominance into the mobile field, not considerations from the users' point of view. Ironically, it seems their approach may cost them their previously dominant role in computing overall.

Yes, M$ puts its own interests (and that of its large corporate customers) ahead of the interests of the end users. It's been that way for a very long time, so that should be no surprise to anybody.

Yes, M$ is not the leader in innovation, and that too should be no surprise to anybody.

M$ is like IBM of the 60s/70s: not all that innovative, but relied upon by countless organizations to get their jobs done.

Quoting vlad135 (Reply 45):

My only complaint about Windows 8 is the lack of a start button. I spent $5 on software that placed the button in its usual place, and made the default (the screen that first loads) the regular Windows desktop, instead of the tiles. With the start button added, I'd say it's no better nor any worse than Windows 7, from a usability point of view.

Yes, I think making the new interface and removing the start button by default on non-tablets/phones is a bad idea. I can see why they did it (to force people to at least consider the new environment) but there are better ways to achieve their goals than forcing everyone to do extra steps to get to the most usable environment for their hardware.

As above, M$ thinks of M$ first, no surprise....

Now back to reading mail in Outlook, reading/writing docs in Word, and crunching numbers in Excel on Windows 7 as I do every day, as per my employer's prerogatives...
Inspiration, move me brightly! Light the song with sense and color.
Hold away despair, more than this I will not ask.
Faced with mysteries dark and vast, statements just seem vain at last.
Some rise, some fall, some climb, to get to Terrapin!
 
captaink
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RE: Windows 8- Apparently, Not Worth It

Mon Apr 15, 2013 3:08 pm

Quoting Revelation (Reply 46):

Great, you found something that works well for you. I bet the tablet user is happier with the Modern UI versions, so all is well in the land of M$.

That´s the problem, all is not well in the land of MSFT. Their mobile presence or lack there of has been a problem for years now. And they are trying to leverage their desktop dominance, and instead of helping mobile they are affecting negatively their bread and butter.
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JJJ
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RE: Windows 8- Apparently, Not Worth It

Mon Apr 15, 2013 3:16 pm

Quoting Asturias (Reply 29):
So compared to Windows 7, there's no question Windows 8 is a step forward - not a major one, but an important one. That being said, it's pretty incredible to see people whine about Windows 8 when it is everything Windows 7 was, except more modern, more advanced and more capable.

And that's pretty much it. There is little incentive to update to Win8 from 7/Vista/XP, so people will do what they've been doing for years: use whatever version of Windows the computer came with and upgrade only as part of a new computer purchase.
 
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RE: Windows 8- Apparently, Not Worth It

Mon Apr 15, 2013 3:31 pm

Quoting captaink (Reply 47):
That´s the problem, all is not well in the land of MSFT. Their mobile presence or lack there of has been a problem for years now.

Indeed, but the position is better with W8 than without it.

Quoting captaink (Reply 47):
And they are trying to leverage their desktop dominance, and instead of helping mobile they are affecting negatively their bread and butter.

Not sure I follow. As above, PC sales are taking a big hit because tablets/phones deliver enough computes for the average user in a cheaper and lighter form factor. Should M$ had come up with some other OS to address that market? Keep in mind that innovation is not their strong suit these days. If you were M$ would have you not tried to leverage the software base you've built up over decades? I think it's their best play, although almost certainly too little too late.

I think Android is in the pole position. It's not the greatest environment, but it's cheap and cheerful, and to me it seems it'll play out the same way Windows vs MacOS played out years ago: the market will favor the cheaper, multi-vendor solution, warts and all.

I almost took the iPhone plunge, but Apple's lack of a micro-sd slot and their price gouging on internal storage was a deal breaker to me.
Inspiration, move me brightly! Light the song with sense and color.
Hold away despair, more than this I will not ask.
Faced with mysteries dark and vast, statements just seem vain at last.
Some rise, some fall, some climb, to get to Terrapin!

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