TheCommodore
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New Zealand Passes Gay Marriage Bill

Wed Apr 17, 2013 11:43 am

Great news indeed.

I tell you what, for such a small nation, in the back blocks    they sure take a progressive lead in the world of change...And good on em !      

If only Australia could be like ........   

http://www.smh.com.au/world/new-zeal...-marriage-bill-20130417-2i0l4.html
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Revelation
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RE: New Zealand Passes Gay Marriage Bill

Wed Apr 17, 2013 11:46 am

So when will NZ have its "Marry a Bloke" day?  
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TheCommodore
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RE: New Zealand Passes Gay Marriage Bill

Wed Apr 17, 2013 11:49 am

Quoting Revelation (Reply 1):
So when will NZ have its "Marry a Bloke" day?

More like "marry a sheep" day            
“At first, they'll only dislike what you say, but the more correct you start sounding the more they'll dislike you.”
 
ZKSUJ
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RE: New Zealand Passes Gay Marriage Bill

Wed Apr 17, 2013 11:56 am

Quoting Revelation (Reply 1):

Apparently the law will take effect in a few months. The government need to change programs and software, forms, certificates etc etc... On an economic note it would be good for the country, hopefully opening up a gay marriage market for overseas visitors.

The country seems split on the decision but I think it's great that people can be treated equally. It's not going to affect me as a straight male (along with many many others) so I don't see what the fuss is about.
Some people go for guys, some go for girls. Others prefer blondes/brunettes/redheads. Some prefer Whites/blacks/Asians etc... Bottom line is you can't help who you fall for. Good news that everyone can have the choice to be married or not now.
 
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zkojq
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RE: New Zealand Passes Gay Marriage Bill

Wed Apr 17, 2013 12:11 pm

Its nice living in a land of such progressiveness and openness. I'm happy that the bill passed, I believe we are the 13th nation to allow same-sex marriage. It still needs to be signed by the Governor General before it actually becomes law however. A lot of my friends have been organising parties to watch the final reading and voting on the bill - young people are very excited.  

Personally, I think that a referendum should have been held. The reason being that whichever side of the debate lost the parliamentary vote was always going to bitch about it for months claiming that they are in the majority and that parliament therefore didn't represent the sentiments of the country.  
Quoting ZKSUJ (Reply 3):
Some people go for guys, some go for girls. Others prefer blondes/brunettes/redheads. Some prefer Whites/blacks/Asians etc... Bottom line is you can't help who you fall for.

   Amen
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kiwiinoz
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RE: New Zealand Passes Gay Marriage Bill

Wed Apr 17, 2013 12:43 pm

A great day for NZ and congratulations. Must be exciting for the MP who brought the bill to parliament

On the question of Australia doing the same, they had better get their skates on as I can't imagine it passing after the likely change in government that is almost a certainty come September
 
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RE: New Zealand Passes Gay Marriage Bill

Wed Apr 17, 2013 1:33 pm

Congratulations New Zealand.

Quoting kiwiinoz (Reply 6):
I can't imagine it passing after the likely change in government that is almost a certainty come September

Sadly, I can't imagine it passing before then. Gillard has made her views known as has Abbott. Both are opposed and when it came to a vote some time ago Gillard allowed a free vote on her side of the House while Abbott instructed his team to vote against. Given that Gillard's Government depends on the votes of Independents to survive the defeat of the Bill was a foregone conclusion.

The ABC is reporting that the Presbyterian Church, while opposed to same-sex marriage, will allow ministers to make their own call. But it also suggests that "if ministers do choose to marry people of the same sex, there is a possibility it will be open to challenge." The news report did not suggest why that might be. Surely, if a marriage is conducted in accordance with New Zealand law and properly registered then it would be lawful and not open to challenge.
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Kiwirob
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RE: New Zealand Passes Gay Marriage Bill

Wed Apr 17, 2013 1:37 pm

Quoting zkojq (Reply 4):
Personally, I think that a referendum should have been held

Agreed this should have been left to the people to decide not parliament.
 
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Aaron747
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RE: New Zealand Passes Gay Marriage Bill

Wed Apr 17, 2013 1:43 pm

One of the signs of a rational and fair nation. More importantly, the first in the Asian-Pacific region to do it.
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CalebWilliams
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RE: New Zealand Passes Gay Marriage Bill

Wed Apr 17, 2013 1:47 pm

Has society collapsed yet? I keep hearing that gay marriage will cause society to collapse...hmm.
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WestJet747
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RE: New Zealand Passes Gay Marriage Bill

Wed Apr 17, 2013 2:31 pm

Quoting TheCommodore (Reply 2):
More like "marry a sheep" day

According to the religious folk, that's what comes next!

Quoting zkojq (Reply 4):
Personally, I think that a referendum should have been held. The reason being that whichever side of the debate lost the parliamentary vote was always going to bitch about it for months claiming that they are in the majority and that parliament therefore didn't represent the sentiments of the country.

Excellent point, I agree. The passing of a referendum is as conclusive as it can get. There is little recourse for the nay-sayers if the will of the people is done in a measurable manner.

Quoting CalebWilliams (Reply 10):
Has society collapsed yet? I keep hearing that gay marriage will cause society to collapse...hmm.

Haven't you heard? Canada legalized gay marriage a decade ago, and we've since become a barren wasteland of homosexual worship and devil worship  
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travelavnut
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RE: New Zealand Passes Gay Marriage Bill

Wed Apr 17, 2013 2:33 pm

Quoting CalebWilliams (Reply 10):
Has society collapsed yet? I keep hearing that gay marriage will cause society to collapse...hmm.

In the Netherlands we have been waiting since 2001 IIRC...

The introduction of the Dutch gay marriage did coincide with the rise of the Big Brother-style reality shows, so there might be some truth to this remark  
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Aesma
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RE: New Zealand Passes Gay Marriage Bill

Wed Apr 17, 2013 3:43 pm

Referenda aren't always a good thing, especially in countries where they're not common (I don't know about NZ). Certain fundamental French laws accepted by a large majority today (abortion, end of the death penalty) would have never passed a referendum at the time.
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CalebWilliams
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RE: New Zealand Passes Gay Marriage Bill

Wed Apr 17, 2013 4:46 pm

Quoting WestJet747 (Reply 11):
Quoting CalebWilliams (Reply 10):
Has society collapsed yet? I keep hearing that gay marriage will cause society to collapse...hmm.

Haven't you heard? Canada legalized gay marriage a decade ago, and we've since become a barren wasteland of homosexual worship and devil worship  

Well, that's what happened to Canada. They seemed fine in the movie Canadian Bacon with John Candy but I really haven't heard much out of them since that.

Quoting travelavnut (Reply 12):
Quoting CalebWilliams (Reply 10):
Has society collapsed yet? I keep hearing that gay marriage will cause society to collapse...hmm.

In the Netherlands we have been waiting since 2001 IIRC...

As an American I'm not aware of anything outside of North America. Sorry.
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HELyes
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RE: New Zealand Passes Gay Marriage Bill

Wed Apr 17, 2013 5:15 pm

Quoting Aesma (Reply 13):
Referenda aren't always a good thing, especially in countries where they're not common (I don't know about NZ). Certain fundamental French laws accepted by a large majority today (abortion, end of the death penalty) would have never passed a referendum at the time.

In Finland a referendum would probably make the new equal marriage law real, finally. According to the polls the majority of Finns support the same-sex marriage but the conservative parliament has stopped the process...
 
baldwin471
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RE: New Zealand Passes Gay Marriage Bill

Wed Apr 17, 2013 6:51 pm

Congratulations to New Zealand. Come on Australia, come on.
 
TheCommodore
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RE: New Zealand Passes Gay Marriage Bill

Wed Apr 17, 2013 8:17 pm

Quoting zkojq (Reply 4):
Its nice living in a land of such progressiveness and openness.

Yes, you are one lucky guy, I'm envious of you. NZ is such a beautiful country.

Quoting zkojq (Reply 4):
Personally, I think that a referendum should have been held.
Quoting kiwirob (Reply 8):
Agreed this should have been left to the people to decide not parliament.
Quoting WestJet747 (Reply 11):
Excellent point, I agree. The passing of a referendum is as conclusive as it can get. There is little recourse for the nay-sayers if the will of the people is done in a measurable manner.

I think this was really something that had to be decided now, and the NZ Government new, that by taking it to a referendum, there was a huge chance the vote would be lost, and we would be back to square one. Not a chance this progressive little country was prepared to take .

Unfortunately however for us Australians, Referendums are not usually successful.

In fact, of the last 44 referendums held, only 8 have passed, so it doesn't have a good track record really.

I applaud the NZ Government for having the conviction to carry this through to the end. Well done !

Quoting Aesma (Reply 13):
Referenda aren't always a good thing, especially in countries where they're not common

Your right, especially in Australia as I pointed out... Not a good success rate at all
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mariner
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RE: New Zealand Passes Gay Marriage Bill

Wed Apr 17, 2013 8:25 pm

Interesting video of the reading of the vote in the Parliament, and the song that followed:

http://dish.andrewsullivan.com/2013/04/17/the-sound-of-equality/

"The sound of equality"

But this video is good, too - a straight MP giving a speech in favour of the bill:

http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2013/0...3100714.html?utm_hp_ref=gay-voices

Blessed with a sense of humour. Much of the debate was.

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RE: New Zealand Passes Gay Marriage Bill

Wed Apr 17, 2013 8:30 pm

Quoting TheCommodore (Reply 2):
More like "marry a sheep" day

A lesbian friend of mine tells me that many relationships in her community fail when the cats don't get along, so maybe it should be "cats get married too" day?  
Quoting WestJet747 (Reply 11):

Haven't you heard? Canada legalized gay marriage a decade ago, and we've since become a barren wasteland of homosexual worship and devil worship

No wonder Canada is such a nice place. GLBTs can enjoy the benefits of marriage and lots more cats have happy homes too!  
Quoting baldwin471 (Reply 16):
Come on Australia, come on.

I imagine that happens regardless of marital status! 
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aerorobnz
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RE: New Zealand Passes Gay Marriage Bill

Thu Apr 18, 2013 7:09 am

It o course opens up several related rights, such as being able to make important decisions on behalf of a same sex spouse, such as being able to pull the plug on a spouse's life support, funeral & burial preferences and also makes it possible to adopt as any straight couple can.

NZ parliament does so many things wrong, it's nice that every decade or so they do one good thing for the nation. Even if it doesn't affect me directly, it's a good thing to do for a nation who has well and truly separated church and state.
Flown to 120 Airports in 44 Countries on 73 Operators. Visited 55 Countries and counting. Wanderlust is like Syphilis, once you have the itch it's too late for treatment.
 
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SpaceshipDC10
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RE: New Zealand Passes Gay Marriage Bill

Thu Apr 18, 2013 10:04 am

That's a great news.

Quoting ZKSUJ (Reply 3):
The country seems split on the decision

Did it led to big demonstrations in cities ? When I see what happening in France, I'm just appalled.
 
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RE: New Zealand Passes Gay Marriage Bill

Thu Apr 18, 2013 9:24 pm

Congrats New Zealand! Such an amazing country, filled with amazing people. The two months I spent there over my two trips provided me with some of my fondest memories.

To civil rights!
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DocLightning
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RE: New Zealand Passes Gay Marriage Bill

Sat Apr 20, 2013 1:12 am

Quoting SpaceshipDC10 (Reply 20):
When I see what happening in France, I'm just appalled.

But I was somewhat heartened to see that the Christians and the Muslims, arch-enemies that they are, suddenly can come together in unity and solidarity to share their mutual hate for a third party. Perhaps they finally figured out that they can twist their religions into hateful expressions of self-superiority and actually get along that way. Maybe they'll discover that they have many other things in common.

Just kinds warms the cockles of my heart.  
Quoting WestJet747 (Reply 10):
Haven't you heard? Canada legalized gay marriage a decade ago, and we've since become a barren wasteland of homosexual worship and devil worship

Oooh! I'll have to plan my next vacation there!  
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WestJet747
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RE: New Zealand Passes Gay Marriage Bill

Sat Apr 20, 2013 1:55 am

Quoting mariner (Reply 17):
But this video is good, too - a straight MP giving a speech in favour of the bill:

http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2013/0...3100714.html?utm_hp_ref=gay-voices

Blessed with a sense of humour. Much of the debate was.

I just saw this video...absolutely brilliant! It's a rare occasion when you get to laugh out loud while watching government debates. I completely lost it when he made the "gay rainbow" comment.  
Quoting DocLightning (Reply 22):
Oooh! I'll have to plan my next vacation there!

By all means, please do! Your tourist dollars are just as green as anyone else's.  
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mariner
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RE: New Zealand Passes Gay Marriage Bill

Sat Apr 20, 2013 2:50 am

Quoting WestJet747 (Reply 23):
I just saw this video...absolutely brilliant! It's a rare occasion when you get to laugh out loud while watching government debates. I completely lost it when he made the "gay rainbow" comment.

The reaction has been quite funny, too:

http://www.stuff.co.nz/national/poli...658/Gay-speech-wins-MP-famous-fans

"Gay speech wins MP famous fans

He's been called many things over a long parliamentary career, but until now "gay icon" has never been one of them.

National MP Maurice Williamson's jocular but impassioned speech in favour of the Marriage (Definition of Marriage) Amendment Bill has won him praise around the world, and a YouTube clip of his performance has been watched close to 700,000 times.

Ellen DeGeneres has asked him to appear on her talk show, actor and British comedian Stephen Fry has tweeted that he wants to hug him, and one internet news site has called his defence of gay rights a "speech for the ages".

Most bewildering of all has been the New York Times' report that he is "one of New Zealand's only openly gay MPs".


He isn't gay, but he took even that in good part:

"The 52-year-old Pakuranga MP, who is married to Raewyn and has three adopted children, said: "I thought that was a bit surprising. It was certainly news to my wife."

There has been a lot of grumbling and moaning from the losing side of the debate, of course, and one comment that drives me nuts - this idea that marriage been one man and one woman is Biblically ordained:

http://www.3news.co.nz/Priest-sadden...1607/articleID/294711/Default.aspx

"Priest 'saddened' by 'bizarre' gay marriage vote

In his view, love has nothing to do with the Biblical idea that marriage can only be between a man and a woman."


There's a priest who doesn't know the Old Testament and the many polygamous Patriarchs.

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Aesma
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RE: New Zealand Passes Gay Marriage Bill

Sat Apr 20, 2013 4:41 am

Quoting DocLightning (Reply 22):
But I was somewhat heartened to see that the Christians and the Muslims, arch-enemies that they are, suddenly can come together in unity and solidarity to share their mutual hate for a third party. Perhaps they finally figured out that they can twist their religions into hateful expressions of self-superiority and actually get along that way. Maybe they'll discover that they have many other things in common.

Well not really. Christians started to do street prayers, something that's usually denounced by the far right when muslims do it. I didn't see any "obvious" muslim protesting, it's rather the white traditional bourgeoisie.

Religious leaders, yes, they all agreed, including the great rabbi of France, who incidentally has just been exposed as a fraud.

Most muslims have voted for the socialist party and the president so that might have something to do with it, or it's just that they don't act as an entity and don't feel concerned, unlike usual protesters who are hailing for an union, an industry, against a law having to do with the job market or retirement rules.
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