User avatar
OA260
Topic Author
Posts: 21028
Joined: Thu Nov 30, 2006 8:50 pm

Al-Qaeda Terror Plot To Derail NYC-Toronto Train.

Mon Apr 22, 2013 9:06 pm

Breaking news that Canadian police have foiled a plot to launch a terror attack on the rail network on a train from New York to Toronto.

news.sky.com

Thank god they foiled it . Could have resulted in mass casualties.
 
User avatar
DeltaMD90
Posts: 8245
Joined: Tue Apr 15, 2008 11:25 pm

RE: Al-Qaeda Terror Plot To Derail NYC-Toronto Train.

Mon Apr 22, 2013 10:03 pm

Hmm, so was this attack going to be primarily against Canada or was America the target? Luckily for our friends up north, they've been spared from terrorism (AFAIK.) Glad this resulted in an arrest
Ironically I have never flown a Delta MD-90 :)
 
WestJet747
Posts: 1950
Joined: Sat Aug 06, 2011 7:43 pm

RE: Al-Qaeda Terror Plot To Derail NYC-Toronto Train.

Mon Apr 22, 2013 10:11 pm

Quoting DeltaMD90 (Reply 1):
Hmm, so was this attack going to be primarily against Canada or was America the target?

Initial reports suggest the bomb was targeted more-so for a location in Toronto or Niagara, not necessarily the train itself.

Quoting DeltaMD90 (Reply 1):
Luckily for our friends up north, they've been spared from terrorism (AFAIK.)

Not quite... http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Toronto_18
Flying refined.
 
User avatar
alberchico
Posts: 2947
Joined: Fri Sep 24, 2004 5:52 am

RE: Al-Qaeda Terror Plot To Derail NYC-Toronto Train.

Mon Apr 22, 2013 10:14 pm

"They watched trains and railways in the Greater Toronto area."

Great so now every trainspotter who likes to photograph trains is going to get hassled by police.....
short summary of every jewish holiday: they tried to kill us ,we won , lets eat !
 
User avatar
DocLightning
Posts: 19756
Joined: Wed Nov 16, 2005 8:51 am

RE: Al-Qaeda Terror Plot To Derail NYC-Toronto Train.

Tue Apr 23, 2013 6:03 am

I'm glad this got reported at all. "What might have been..."
-Doc Lightning-

"The sky calls to us. If we do not destroy ourselves, we will one day venture to the stars."
-Carl Sagan
 
PHX787
Posts: 7877
Joined: Thu Mar 15, 2012 7:46 pm

RE: Al-Qaeda Terror Plot To Derail NYC-Toronto Train.

Tue Apr 23, 2013 6:29 am

Why Canada?! What has Canada done to piss off extremists?
Follow me on twitter: www.twitter.com/phx787
 
PanHAM
Posts: 8533
Joined: Fri May 06, 2005 6:44 pm

RE: Al-Qaeda Terror Plot To Derail NYC-Toronto Train.

Tue Apr 23, 2013 7:02 am

Quoting PHX787 (Reply 5):
Why Canada?! What has Canada done to piss off extremists?

The guilt is that Canada offers an open and free society to everyone.

These extremists do not stop until the world is back into the medieval times-.
powered by Eierlikör
 
Quokkas
Posts: 1327
Joined: Fri Jan 27, 2012 5:51 pm

RE: Al-Qaeda Terror Plot To Derail NYC-Toronto Train.

Tue Apr 23, 2013 7:55 am

Quoting PHX787 (Reply 5):
Why Canada?! What has Canada done to piss off extremists?

Terrorists, of whatever persuasion, can always invent a reason. But in recent years Canada has been an active participant in various operations in the Middle East, Afghanistan and Africa. That might give a "justification" to those who are looking for one.

It is fortunate that in this instance the authorities were able to prevent an attack.
“Not to laugh, not to cry, not to hate, but understand.” Spinoza
 
777way
Posts: 6470
Joined: Mon Dec 05, 2005 1:38 am

RE: Al-Qaeda Terror Plot To Derail NYC-Toronto Train.

Tue Apr 23, 2013 9:33 am

Quoting PanHAM (Reply 6):
The guilt is that Canada offers an open and free society to everyone.

No infact BS.

Quoting Quokkas (Reply 7):
in recent years Canada has been an active participant in various operations in the Middle East, Afghanistan and Africa. That might give a "justification" to those who are looking for one.

Yes for sure.
 
ltbewr
Posts: 12390
Joined: Thu Jan 29, 2004 1:24 pm

RE: Al-Qaeda Terror Plot To Derail NYC-Toronto Train.

Tue Apr 23, 2013 10:43 am

Here is a link to a news story on this plot:
http://worldnews.nbcnews.com/_news/2...lleged-canada-train-bomb-plot?lite

Apparently it was others in the Muslim community in the Toronto area that gave key information to the RCMP about this plot. They apparently were targeting the Amtrak/VIA train between Penn Station in NYC and Toronto, a train that operates up the Hudson River, through Albany and Niagara Falls to Toronto. The disturbing issue is the connection of these alleged plotters to a small al-Queda group that operates in Iran, near the borders of Afghanistan and Pakistan, often giving help to al-Queda groups in those countries. Of course, many here in the USA (especially right wingers) will try to connect this group in Iran with the government of Iran and Iran's nuke program and anger of the USA (and Israel) as to that program. They are foreign nationals (although their nationality has yet to be disclosed), both graduate students, one was in the Toronto area, the other in Montreal.

As to terror and Canada, don't forget the terror attack on 2 Air India flights, one that blew up near the coast of Ireland, the other where the checked bag blew when the flight arrived in Japan.
 
User avatar
Francoflier
Posts: 3702
Joined: Wed Oct 31, 2001 12:27 pm

RE: Al-Qaeda Terror Plot To Derail NYC-Toronto Train.

Tue Apr 23, 2013 11:24 am

Quoting PHX787 (Reply 5):
What has Canada done to piss off extremists?

They allow women to work, drive and vote... How dare they?!
I'll do my own airline. With Blackjack. And hookers. In fact, forget the airline.
 
User avatar
falstaff
Posts: 5575
Joined: Sun Jun 25, 2006 6:17 am

RE: Al-Qaeda Terror Plot To Derail NYC-Toronto Train.

Tue Apr 23, 2013 11:32 am

Quoting alberchico (Reply 3):
Great so now every trainspotter who likes to photograph trains is going to get hassled by police

We already went through that once and it still goes on. Now it will just be worse. I was thinking about driving acorss the river and do some train watching in Windsor one of these days; I guess I'll postpone that for a while now.

Quoting PHX787 (Reply 5):
Why Canada?! What has Canada done to piss off extremists?

Who knows. I am sure these guys have a reason. Maybe it as simple as people are non believers so they deserve to die. I once lived in a apartment building where the office manager was stealing rent money. When she was caught she claimed that it was ok to steal from non believers. Some people are just twisted.
My mug slaketh over on Falstaff N503
 
User avatar
SOBHI51
Posts: 3730
Joined: Wed Jun 04, 2003 1:32 pm

RE: Al-Qaeda Terror Plot To Derail NYC-Toronto Train.

Tue Apr 23, 2013 6:13 pm

It seems that the Canadian police got a tip about those two people from a local imam.
In Arabic
http://www.elaph.com/Web/news/2013/4/807559.html
I am against any terrorist acts committed under the name of Islam
 
User avatar
DocLightning
Posts: 19756
Joined: Wed Nov 16, 2005 8:51 am

RE: Al-Qaeda Terror Plot To Derail NYC-Toronto Train.

Tue Apr 23, 2013 6:42 pm

Quoting SOBHI51 (Reply 13):
It seems that the Canadian police got a tip about those two people from a local imam

Good.

In general, there needs to be a LOT more action taken place not just locally, but globally in Islam as an institution about this. At present, the vast majority of terrorist attacks world-wide are linked to militant islamism. The higher-ups in Mecca and Medina need to do some serious thinking.

Islam is not like Catholicism in that there is not a single heierarchical organization. There is no "Pope" or "Cardinal" who can excommunicate people from the "Church." However, there are other measures that can be taken to begin to steer Islam into a direction that will lead to the disenfranchisement of its extremist representatives. Better emphasis on secular education in general, more emphasis on ecumenical efforts, and an enhancement of womens' rights would be a good starting place.

But something must be done to disenfranchise and isolate the extremists. If Muslims continue to be seen as responsible for an increasing number of terrorist attacks around the world, the voices crying for genocide will simply get louder until they cannot be ignored or put down any longer. And that would lead to a very dark time for humankind, indeed.
-Doc Lightning-

"The sky calls to us. If we do not destroy ourselves, we will one day venture to the stars."
-Carl Sagan
 
AeroWesty
Posts: 19551
Joined: Sat Oct 30, 2004 7:37 am

RE: Al-Qaeda Terror Plot To Derail NYC-Toronto Train.

Tue Apr 23, 2013 7:34 pm

Quoting DocLightning (Reply 14):
the voices crying for genocide will simply get louder

Understanding the severity of this word, it might be responsible to define this better, as in what voices are currently crying for genocide, against which groups, so that it's not misunderstood.
International Homo of Mystery
 
User avatar
DocLightning
Posts: 19756
Joined: Wed Nov 16, 2005 8:51 am

RE: Al-Qaeda Terror Plot To Derail NYC-Toronto Train.

Tue Apr 23, 2013 9:01 pm

Quoting AeroWesty (Reply 15):

Understanding the severity of this word, it might be responsible to define this better, as in what voices are currently crying for genocide, against which groups, so that it's not misunderstood.

Against all Muslims and Arabs and those who "look Muslim." Look, when it comes down to genocide, reason and logic don't exactly figure into it. Israel put a fair amount of work into trying to develop biological weapons specific to Arabs. Obviously, it didn't pan out for them.

At present, there are many Americans who honestly believe that the solution to this entire problem is to carpet-nuke (or neutron bomb) the entire Mid-East and march all Arabs in this country off to the gas chambers. On the "less extreme" end of the scale, I saw the video of Rick Santorum standing behind the Rev. Jeremiad White and applauding enthusiastically as the good Reverend said that all non-Christians should get out of the USA.

Every terrorist attack of this nature leads to more xenophobia. Now, Rick Santorum was a Presidential candidate for a major political party. Can you imagine if attacks like this were to become more frequent to the point that someone like that might actually win an election and have his finger on the trigger of the single most powerful nuclear arsenal in the world?

If you think "it can't happen," then perhaps you should listen to the interviews of Holocaust survivors. They didn't think it could happen there, either. Or at least, not until it was too late. But in this case, while the onus falls on those of us who know better and who keep cooler heads to try to prevent such action on our side, there is at least as much onus on those who are high up in the religion of Islam to call for some very deep changes from within so that it can no longer be used as an excuse for violence.
-Doc Lightning-

"The sky calls to us. If we do not destroy ourselves, we will one day venture to the stars."
-Carl Sagan
 
WestJet747
Posts: 1950
Joined: Sat Aug 06, 2011 7:43 pm

RE: Al-Qaeda Terror Plot To Derail NYC-Toronto Train.

Thu Apr 25, 2013 12:13 pm

The story got interesting yesterday. One of the suspects, Chiheb Esseghaier, had a court appearance yesterday where he proclaimed (after having been told by the judge to be careful with his words) that he doesn't recognize Canada's Criminal Code because "it is not a holy book". Here's a direct quote:

“All of us we know that this Criminal Code is not holy book, it’s just written by set of creations and the creations – they’re not perfect because only the Creator is perfect so if we are basing our judgment … we cannot rely on the conclusions taken out from these judgments.”

He has been remanded until May 23rd.

Quoting DocLightning (Reply 4):
I'm glad this got reported at all.

Well, things are different up here. People killing each other isn't a daily thing for us. For example, whenever there is a report of shots being fired in the GTA, it's immediately all over the news...whereas in cities like Chicago, only the actual murders ever get mentioned.

Quoting PHX787 (Reply 5):
Why Canada?! What has Canada done to piss off extremists?

I suspect it's because Canada is the USA's biggest ally and trading partner. Canadians and Americans are fairly different in many respects, but terrorists still consider Canada to be part of the "evil West" because we're bedmates with the our largest/only neighbour, who they happen to hate.
Flying refined.
 
b787900
Posts: 33
Joined: Wed Sep 07, 2011 5:49 am

RE: Al-Qaeda Terror Plot To Derail NYC-Toronto Train.

Fri Apr 26, 2013 6:55 pm

Thankfully the authorities were able to prevent the attack in time! It is very difficult to understand why some individuals feel the need to inflict harm upon innocent people. It's just sickening. It is also becoming more apparent that the world is changing, sadly not for the better in many cases.

Quoting WestJet747 (Reply 16):

I beg to differ, at least somewhat. I don't think people in Chicago or in the US in general randomly kill one another (typical Canadian/foreign misconception). According to numerous news reports and a number of reputable online sources, violent crime in the US is usually drug related (gang members vs. other gang members). Violent crime against random people is rare. Now speaking of Toronto, althought there has been significantly less violent crime in the GTA in 2012 than in the previous years, it is still a rather relatively frequent occurrence. But again, it usually happens among criminals. Besides, I don't get what this has to do with the topic being discussed   ? There is no need to be smug. Potential serious terror related plots almost always get media attention, particularly in the West.

Canadians and Americans may be a bit different when it comes to a few social issues or foreign policy, but we are defiantly not all that different culturally. Hardly at all. Besides, most people aren't that much different from one another regardless of country/region. People are the same everywhere. Those who claim that they are somehow "different" or superior than another group, race, or nationality are delusional. This might to some small degree explain why certain individuals feel they have the right to commit atrocious acts of terror against innocent people.
 
777way
Posts: 6470
Joined: Mon Dec 05, 2005 1:38 am

RE: Al-Qaeda Terror Plot To Derail NYC-Toronto Train.

Fri Apr 26, 2013 11:04 pm

Quoting DocLightning (Reply 15):

What a fantasy, did the jews have their own majority jewish states? can you imagine the repoercussions of what you think is going to be a simple one sided thing and then all is well? like I said only the anti-Christ will roll out that carpet.
 
User avatar
SOBHI51
Posts: 3730
Joined: Wed Jun 04, 2003 1:32 pm

RE: Al-Qaeda Terror Plot To Derail NYC-Toronto Train.

Fri Apr 26, 2013 11:23 pm

Quoting 777way (Reply 18):
What a fantasy, did the jews have their own majority jewish states? can you imagine the repoercussions of what you think is going to be a simple one sided thing and then all is well? like I said only the anti-Christ will roll out that carpet.

Not really, you perhaps have not been to the USA lately, there is such a movement and such calls, they don't count for too much so far but remember a fire starts with a small sparkle.
I do agree with DocLighting, it's the duty of Muslims to show the peaceful way of there religion, this is not easy when few thousand use the religion to commit terrible acts. Trying to ignore that there is a problem only encourage those extremists.

Also i want to add we have no fight with the Jewish religion as such but with Zionism.
I am against any terrorist acts committed under the name of Islam
 
777way
Posts: 6470
Joined: Mon Dec 05, 2005 1:38 am

RE: Al-Qaeda Terror Plot To Derail NYC-Toronto Train.

Sat Apr 27, 2013 12:45 am

You think they care about peace loving muslims? who are they going to carpet bomb in the middle east as Doc said, just terrprists? it seems hes saynig they think all muslims are terrorists.
 
Quokkas
Posts: 1327
Joined: Fri Jan 27, 2012 5:51 pm

RE: Al-Qaeda Terror Plot To Derail NYC-Toronto Train.

Sat Apr 27, 2013 2:23 am

Quoting 777way (Reply 20):
it seems hes saynig they think all muslims are terrorists.

Yes, the Doc has pointed out that there are those who do think that all Muslims are terrorists, or at least predisposed to violence. There are one or two in the A.net community who have expressed such views. Those people are not the majority and, fortunately, they do not control US foreign policy.

Here I agree with SOBHI51, it is the responsibility of Muslims (just the same as other citizens) to show that they are peaceful and that will mean where necessary co-operating with the authorities to prevent terrorist attacks, as occurred in this instance. Over the years there have been dozens of fatwas condemning terrorism. Many Muslim people and organisations have strived to be peaceful and law abiding citizens but their announcements and efforts are often ignored by mainstream media and dismissed as a smoke-screen by those who wish to incite fear and loathing. Of course you will never convince those who choose not to listen.

But every terrorist attack serves to gain credibility for those who do preach hatred and a small minority today can rapidly become a majority tomorrow.
“Not to laugh, not to cry, not to hate, but understand.” Spinoza
 
User avatar
WildcatYXU
Posts: 2606
Joined: Sat May 06, 2006 2:05 pm

RE: Al-Qaeda Terror Plot To Derail NYC-Toronto Train.

Sat Apr 27, 2013 1:42 pm

Quoting b787900 (Reply 17):
Thankfully the authorities were able to prevent the attack in time!



Well, I wouldn't be so fast in praising the authorities. One of the suspects shouldn't even be in the country. He was about to be deported but allowed to stay claiming statelessness. Heck, ha was even pardoned for crimes in order to gain permanent residency. Honestly, as a naturalized Canadian I'm deeply offended by this. Just look to the linked article to see how nice guy this "freedom fighter" is:

http://www.usatoday.com/story/news/n...rror-train-derail-suspect/2113767/
310, 319, 320, 321, 333, 343, 345, 346, 732, 735, 73G, 738, 744, 752, 762, 763, 77L, 77W, 788, AT4, AT7, BEH, CR2, CRA, CR9, DH1, DH3, DH4, E75, E90, E95, F28, F50, F100, Saab 340, YAK40
 
AeroWesty
Posts: 19551
Joined: Sat Oct 30, 2004 7:37 am

RE: Al-Qaeda Terror Plot To Derail NYC-Toronto Train.

Sat Apr 27, 2013 2:16 pm

Quoting WildcatYXU (Reply 22):
offended

Weren't you aware that the internet police who prowl these environs have now taken exception to the "O word"? You're supposed to control your emotions so others don't have to do it for you.  
International Homo of Mystery
 
777way
Posts: 6470
Joined: Mon Dec 05, 2005 1:38 am

RE: Al-Qaeda Terror Plot To Derail NYC-Toronto Train.

Sat Apr 27, 2013 5:51 pm

Quokkas, so you too are suggesting that majority muslims world wide are potential terrorists?

Quoting WildcatYXU (Reply 22):
as a naturalized Canadian I'm deeply offended by this.

The key word is naturalized, I doubt Canada is concenred in your types being offended by their policies.
 
User avatar
SOBHI51
Posts: 3730
Joined: Wed Jun 04, 2003 1:32 pm

RE: Al-Qaeda Terror Plot To Derail NYC-Toronto Train.

Sat Apr 27, 2013 5:55 pm

Quoting 777way (Reply 24):
I doubt Canada is concenred in your types being offended by their policies.

In a country like Canada, this does not make a difference you are a Canadian, period.
I am against any terrorist acts committed under the name of Islam
 
777way
Posts: 6470
Joined: Mon Dec 05, 2005 1:38 am

RE: Al-Qaeda Terror Plot To Derail NYC-Toronto Train.

Sat Apr 27, 2013 7:05 pm

I hope same can be said for Saudi Arabia someday.
 
Quokkas
Posts: 1327
Joined: Fri Jan 27, 2012 5:51 pm

RE: Al-Qaeda Terror Plot To Derail NYC-Toronto Train.

Sun Apr 28, 2013 2:36 am

Quoting 777way (Reply 24):
Quokkas, so you too are suggesting that majority muslims world wide are potential terrorists?

I am not sure how you come to that conclusion. I have in fact indicated the opposite. In previous threads, when people have complained that Muslims do nothing to oppose violence, I have posted links to condemnations by Muslim organisations, both in the US and elsewhere, of violence carried out supposedly in the name of Islam. I have also argued with those in these forums who seek to paint Islam as intrinsically violent by misquoting and taking out of context verses in the Qur'an and passages in Hadith.

What I have suggested above is that the very small minority who claim to be Muslim and who seek to use Islam to justify terrorist acts are seen to give credence to those in the West who are calling for revenge and who voice hatred towards all Muslims. Muslims who are aware of people thinking about or planning acts of violence have a responsibility and duty to prevent such acts, be that by counselling against or informing the competent authorities. That is quite the opposite of what you think I am suggesting.

My suggestion is that the majority of Muslims want to simply live their lives in peace without fear or recrimination.
“Not to laugh, not to cry, not to hate, but understand.” Spinoza
 
NASCARAirforce
Posts: 2452
Joined: Sun Feb 27, 2005 7:27 am

RE: Al-Qaeda Terror Plot To Derail NYC-Toronto Train.

Sun Apr 28, 2013 4:01 am

Quoting alberchico (Reply 3):
"They watched trains and railways in the Greater Toronto area."

Great so now every trainspotter who likes to photograph trains is going to get hassled by police.....

Which will then carry over to anything transportation related, such as spotting at airports again.

Quoting PHX787 (Reply 5):
Why Canada?! What has Canada done to piss off extremists?

Not force their women to wear burkas.

Quoting WildcatYXU (Reply 22):
Well, I wouldn't be so fast in praising the authorities. One of the suspects shouldn't even be in the country. He was about to be deported but allowed to stay claiming statelessness. Heck, ha was even pardoned for crimes in order to gain permanent residency. Honestly, as a naturalized Canadian I'm deeply offended by this. Just look to the linked article to see how nice guy this "freedom fighter" is:

Don't feel bad. Russia warned the US about Tamerlan Tsarnaev, but US didn't take the warning seriously. At least you guys stopped the attack from happening.
 
User avatar
SOBHI51
Posts: 3730
Joined: Wed Jun 04, 2003 1:32 pm

RE: Al-Qaeda Terror Plot To Derail NYC-Toronto Train.

Sun Apr 28, 2013 4:25 am

Quoting 777way (Reply 26):

I hope same can be said for Saudi Arabia someday.

That's smart, we are discussing Canada here, noticed when you find nothing to say you try to change subject. Before looking at my country, how about yours? Not a heaven for democracy is it?
I am against any terrorist acts committed under the name of Islam
 
PanHAM
Posts: 8533
Joined: Fri May 06, 2005 6:44 pm

RE: Al-Qaeda Terror Plot To Derail NYC-Toronto Train.

Sun Apr 28, 2013 5:00 am

Quoting WildcatYXU (Reply 22):
One of the suspects shouldn't even be in the country. He was about to be deported but allowed to stay claiming statelessness

So where should they send him when no other country accepts him? canada is stuck with the guy, simple as that.

In Berlin and other cities we have whole families of 2000 people many of whom are criminal and cannot be extradited as neither Lebanon nor Turkey accepts them as citizens. That's when democracies make themselves to laughing stock to such people biut that's the price to pay.
powered by Eierlikör
 
CaliAtenza
Posts: 1626
Joined: Mon Dec 25, 2006 1:43 pm

RE: Al-Qaeda Terror Plot To Derail NYC-Toronto Train.

Sun Apr 28, 2013 5:42 am

My question is, how do people, such as doctors and engineers; people of respectable careers, decide to commit terrorist acts, in the name of Islam? These arent stupid people..What is driving these people to give up their career, families, whatever...to kill innocents? I mean these two guys in Boston...they were educated or getting educated; the younger one wanted to go med school or something from what i remember. The older one was, okay yeah he worked as a "driver", but still...he wasnt a dumb guy. What is it...that makes these kinds of people give up their lives?
 
User avatar
DocLightning
Posts: 19756
Joined: Wed Nov 16, 2005 8:51 am

RE: Al-Qaeda Terror Plot To Derail NYC-Toronto Train.

Sun Apr 28, 2013 4:02 pm

Quoting 777way (Reply 20):

You think they care about peace loving muslims? who are they going to carpet bomb in the middle east as Doc said, just terrprists? it seems hes saynig they think all muslims are terrorists.

That is exactly what they think.

And every single terrorist attack committed in the name of Jihad "proves" their point. I am not defending them; I am just telling it like it is.

And when one of those attacks one day is a "dirty bomb" that makes all of Manhattan uninhabitable and leads to an economic disaster, you bet that that minority who want genocide will start to become a significant minority, if not a majority. In charge of the largest nuclear arsenal in the world and the single largest military in the world.
-Doc Lightning-

"The sky calls to us. If we do not destroy ourselves, we will one day venture to the stars."
-Carl Sagan
 
User avatar
DeltaMD90
Posts: 8245
Joined: Tue Apr 15, 2008 11:25 pm

RE: Al-Qaeda Terror Plot To Derail NYC-Toronto Train.

Sun Apr 28, 2013 4:15 pm

Quoting DocLightning (Reply 32):

Agreed. Saying that peaceful Muslims shouldn't police extremist Muslims because there will be some Americans who will still want to destroy the Middle East anyway is like saying peaceful Americans shouldn't police extreme US troops that kill civilians overseas because there will be Muslims who will hate America no matter what.

And, as you pointed out, the statement you quoted is just bad thinking... more terrorist attacks will increase the anger and the number of citizens willing to go to the extremes and more peaceful movements will indeed decrease (but not fully eliminate) the anamosity, but Rome wasn't built in a day
Ironically I have never flown a Delta MD-90 :)
 
User avatar
hOMSaR
Posts: 1364
Joined: Tue Jan 19, 2010 4:47 am

RE: Al-Qaeda Terror Plot To Derail NYC-Toronto Train.

Sun Apr 28, 2013 4:26 pm

Quoting DocLightning (Reply 32):
And when one of those attacks one day is a "dirty bomb" that makes all of Manhattan uninhabitable

Hasn't it basically been demonstrated that so-called "dirty bombs" aren't actually feasible, and that the greatest threat it poses is the explosion itself (which makes it basically no different than a regular explosive).

I recall hearing/reading about a study done that basically said the only way radiation from such a device could potentially be lethal is if nobody did anything to clean up the area, and those exposed to it didn't move for an entire year.
The plural of Airbus is Airbuses. Airbii is not a word, and doesn't even make sense.
 
AeroWesty
Posts: 19551
Joined: Sat Oct 30, 2004 7:37 am

RE: Al-Qaeda Terror Plot To Derail NYC-Toronto Train.

Sun Apr 28, 2013 4:37 pm

Quoting HOMSaR (Reply 34):
I recall hearing/reading about a study done that basically said the only way radiation from such a device could potentially be lethal is if nobody did anything to clean up the area, and those exposed to it didn't move for an entire year.

There's quite a bit of hysteria in some of the above posts. A dirty bomb isn't the same as an atomic bomb. When in doubt, go to a knowledgable source, like the CDC's FAQ:

http://www.bt.cdc.gov/radiation/dirtybombs.asp
International Homo of Mystery
 
User avatar
DocLightning
Posts: 19756
Joined: Wed Nov 16, 2005 8:51 am

RE: Al-Qaeda Terror Plot To Derail NYC-Toronto Train.

Sun Apr 28, 2013 7:00 pm

Quoting AeroWesty (Reply 35):
There's quite a bit of hysteria in some of the above posts. A dirty bomb isn't the same as an atomic bomb. When in doubt, go to a knowledgable source, like the CDC's FAQ:

It can be something else, then. I dunno, smallpox. Bottom line, when something like that happens, it will be very bad indeed, and not just for those directly affected.
-Doc Lightning-

"The sky calls to us. If we do not destroy ourselves, we will one day venture to the stars."
-Carl Sagan
 
AeroWesty
Posts: 19551
Joined: Sat Oct 30, 2004 7:37 am

RE: Al-Qaeda Terror Plot To Derail NYC-Toronto Train.

Sun Apr 28, 2013 7:25 pm

Quoting DocLightning (Reply 36):
Bottom line, when something like that happens, it will be very bad indeed, and not just for those directly affected.

I understand your fear, it's quite common. I look at it differently, in that the political centers where these kinds of plots originate may very well implode upon themselves within the next couple of decades. We're so close now, the U.S. especially, in weening ourselves off of ME oil, that a political and economic disturbance will more likely occur away from the Americas.

The Atlantic has an interesting article on the affect methane hydrate will have on the world that talks of this, a fossil fuel we're very close to making economically feasible to use (not to leave out the advances we're making with hydrogen as a fuel as well along with green alternatives):

What If We Never Run Out of Oil?

Quote:
If methane hydrate allows much of the world to switch from oil to gas, the conversion would undermine governments that depend on oil revenues, especially petro-autocracies like Russia, Iran, Venezuela, Iraq, Kuwait, and Saudi Arabia. Unless oil states are exceptionally well run, a gush of petroleum revenues can actually weaken their economies by crowding out other business. Worse, most oil nations are so corrupt that social scientists argue over whether there is an inherent bond—a “resource curse”—between big petroleum deposits and political malfeasance. It seems safe to say that few Americans would be upset if a plunge in demand eliminated these countries’ hold over the U.S. economy. But those same people might not relish the global instability—a belt of financial and political turmoil from Venezuela to Turkmenistan—that their collapse could well unleash.
International Homo of Mystery
 
ltbewr
Posts: 12390
Joined: Thu Jan 29, 2004 1:24 pm

RE: Al-Qaeda Terror Plot To Derail NYC-Toronto Train.

Sun Apr 28, 2013 8:41 pm

I think Canada is a bit more liberal than the USA as to accepting human rights refugees and as still has ties to the UK Commonwealth, it is easier for such person to enter Canada than the USA. These people may not be able to enter the USA legally but were able to enter Canada legally.

As to the choice of attacking a train running from Toronto to NYC, they could do it all in the Canadian sectors, yet it would be an attack on the USA as many of the pax would be USA Citizens and that Canada is part of the 'evil empire' in some terrorists' eyes for their supporting many USA policies, including sending their troops into Iraq and Afghanistan ( and lost dozens of it's solders).
 
WestJet747
Posts: 1950
Joined: Sat Aug 06, 2011 7:43 pm

RE: Al-Qaeda Terror Plot To Derail NYC-Toronto Train.

Sun Apr 28, 2013 9:04 pm

Quoting b787900 (Reply 17):
I don't think people in Chicago or in the US in general randomly kill one another (typical Canadian/foreign misconception).

I never said they did.

Quoting b787900 (Reply 17):
Besides, I don't get what this has to do with the topic being discussed   ? There is no need to be smug. Potential serious terror related plots almost always get media attention, particularly in the West.

I'm not sure how I'm being smug...or how you don't get how it relates to the topic, for that matter. American intelligence discovers terrorist plots against them all the time without it being widely reported by all the major news networks. The only time it gets large press like we see with this case is when the plan was discovered while being close to coming to fruition. I thought my gun crime comparison made it fairly clear.

Quoting 777way (Reply 24):
The key word is naturalized, I doubt Canada is concenred in your types being offended by their policies.

Whether he is naturalized or not, Canada sees him as a Canadian either way. So yes, Canada would be concerned about our policies offending fellow Canadians. I understand that's a difficult concept to those in any of the many countries around the world where everyone isn't treated equally.

Besides, it is not a "policy" per se, but rather incompetence in forgiving criminals simply because no other country wants them.

Quoting ltbewr (Reply 38):
I think Canada is a bit more liberal than the USA as to accepting human rights refugees and as still has ties to the UK Commonwealth, it is easier for such person to enter Canada than the USA. These people may not be able to enter the USA legally but were able to enter Canada legally.

Yes, Canada is far more liberal in that sense, but the terror suspects did not enter legally. They used forged French documents to enter Canada and then tried to claim asylum. When refugee status was refused, Canada tried to deport them but couldn't because they had nowhere to deport them too. We were forced to keep them here.
Flying refined.
 
777way
Posts: 6470
Joined: Mon Dec 05, 2005 1:38 am

RE: Al-Qaeda Terror Plot To Derail NYC-Toronto Train.

Mon Apr 29, 2013 4:22 am

Quoting SOBHI51 (Reply 29):

Well it was ironic that some one a place like Saudi should speak with such pride about Canada and its policiies. as for my country no we don't like or care about democracy, its a sham, we just want righteous, just persons to govern.. be it a dictator or a mullah or a secularist.
 
User avatar
SOBHI51
Posts: 3730
Joined: Wed Jun 04, 2003 1:32 pm

RE: Al-Qaeda Terror Plot To Derail NYC-Toronto Train.

Mon Apr 29, 2013 5:06 am

Quoting 777way (Reply 40):
Well it was ironic that some one a place like Saudi should speak with such pride about Canada and its policiies

I was just responding to this, just to clarify the policies of Canada.

Quoting 777way (Reply 24):
The key word is naturalized, I doubt Canada is concenred in your types being offended by their policies.
Quoting 777way (Reply 40):
as for my country no we don't like or care about democracy, its a sham

 
I am against any terrorist acts committed under the name of Islam

Who is online

Users browsing this forum: FAST Enterprise [Crawler] and 16 guests