AeroWesty
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George W. Bush Library Dedication

Thu Apr 25, 2013 3:22 pm

The George W. Bush Presidential Library and Museum opens in Dallas today.

http://www.georgewbushlibrary.smu.edu/

The above link is safe to click on, one of the featured videos on the home page is currently 'Barney & Miss Beazley's Spring Garden Tour'. I didn't get any further, so I don't know if that was indicative of the rest of the site or not.

Anyone here invited to the opening? I understand that President Obama, the First Lady, and all of our living former and ex-presidents will be in attendance.

[Edited 2013-04-25 08:24:26]
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Arrow
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RE: George W. Bush Library Dedication

Thu Apr 25, 2013 3:45 pm

Is there a section dedicated to the WMDs he found in Iraq?
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flymia
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RE: George W. Bush Library Dedication

Thu Apr 25, 2013 4:09 pm

^^
Wow only took one post.  

Anyway, I am watching. Always interesting seeing the other presidents talk about one which did not share party lines. For the most part I do think Clinton and Obama respect Bush for the sole reason of the job he held and what a difficult job it is. It is already happening though, Bush 43 legacy is getting better and will continue to be seen in a better light as the years go by.

Good speech by W.

[Edited 2013-04-25 09:12:26]
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RE: George W. Bush Library Dedication

Thu Apr 25, 2013 4:15 pm

Quoting Arrow (Reply 1):
Is there a section dedicated to the WMDs he found in Iraq?

Well technically, since they are calling a pressure cooker with some fireworks in it a WMD, I'd venture to say we did find some there.

That said, as unpopular as W may be, I would say that having hit at a cookout with some beers would probably be a mighty fun time. He seems like, politics aside, a nice guy

-DiamondFlyer
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AeroWesty
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RE: George W. Bush Library Dedication

Thu Apr 25, 2013 4:33 pm

Quoting DiamondFlyer (Reply 3):
Well technically, since they are calling a pressure cooker with some fireworks in it a WMD, I'd venture to say we did find some there.

Anyone who wants to go down that route will also have to then justify the 'Mission Accomplished' speech given 10 years ago next week vs. the state of affairs in Iraq over the past decade. Especially since it took a later 'surge' and a subsequent president to clean things up in order to bring our troops home.
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RE: George W. Bush Library Dedication

Thu Apr 25, 2013 6:05 pm

What book does it have?
Is it a coloring book?
Or is it a comic book?
GWB: Worst. President. Ever.
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alberchico
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RE: George W. Bush Library Dedication

Thu Apr 25, 2013 6:26 pm

The one thing it will be missing is the presidential limo. Clinton was the last president to get one of the vehicles for his library.

All future limos from Bush onward will be destroyed by the Secret Service to protect their classified armor technology.

Here is a pic of the Clinton limo at his library:

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BMI727
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RE: George W. Bush Library Dedication

Thu Apr 25, 2013 6:45 pm

Quoting Revelation (Reply 5):
GWB: Worst. President. Ever.

Not unless we lost Jimmy Carter somewhere.

Quoting alberchico (Reply 6):
All future limos from Bush onward will be destroyed by the Secret Service to protect their classified armor technology.

They aren't that interesting anyway beyond the actual technology which they can't show us anyway. Looks and stylewise, they're just trucks that took a long bath in the parts bin.
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Redd
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RE: George W. Bush Library Dedication

Thu Apr 25, 2013 7:01 pm

Quoting DiamondFlyer (Reply 3):
He seems like, politics aside, a nice guy

Sure, if you don't also count the hundreds of thousands of people killed, tortured and 4.5 million people in Iraq alone displaced from their homes and living as refugees as a direct result of his 'wars on terror'

I personally would like to see the man jailed for life.

Quoting Revelation (Reply 5):
What book does it have?
Is it a coloring book?

I don't think old George could stay within the lines let alone read. The man can barely speak English.

Quoting Revelation (Reply 5):
GWB: Worst. President. Ever.

  
 
klm672
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RE: George W. Bush Library Dedication

Thu Apr 25, 2013 7:34 pm

..and when tries to read, the book is upside down!
 
PSA53
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RE: George W. Bush Library Dedication

Thu Apr 25, 2013 7:36 pm

Quoting Revelation (Reply 5):
GWB: Worst. President. Ever.


But yet,Obama has carried over many of Bush's policies.

Immigration,Patriot Act,Gitmo,Bush taxes,War(s),how many times has Obama promised to end it?Most of these issues was on Obama 2008 opposition,blame Bush campaign.They are alive and well today.

So,does is it come down to whose a Republican and a Democrat issue? I wonder. Because Bill Clinton still has the welcome mat with gays after he wrote or endorsed DADT and DOMA. Double standard?

Bush is not the worse after what Obama has done.And now,if one wishes, should blame Obama who has been given a free ride with the media. And I find it very hard to believe that ultra liberals can police themselves and after media's torture of Bush of those SAME issues in which Obama carried over.Some was warranted,some not,like Katrina.

Congrats to the opening of the Bush library.And I do thank Obama for joining in the opening ceremonies which makes this nation great.And yes,I would say congrats to Obama when he opens his.

[Edited 2013-04-25 12:44:53]
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Kiwirob
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RE: George W. Bush Library Dedication

Thu Apr 25, 2013 8:21 pm

See I was right he does have reading difficulties, one ready does wonder if he's ever been inside a library?

 
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RE: George W. Bush Library Dedication

Thu Apr 25, 2013 8:23 pm

Quoting PSA53 (Reply 10):
But yet,Obama has carried over many of Bush's policies.

Immigration,Patriot Act,Gitmo,Bush taxes,War(s),how many times has Obama promised to end it?

It's fair to say neither GWB or BHO got all of what they wanted through Congress, but clearly there are things Obama would change if he could get them through Congress, many of them are things you've listed, and all are things started by GWB.

PS: You forgot to credit Bush for creating TSA and DHS.

Quoting PSA53 (Reply 10):
Bush is not the worse after what Obama has done

Do you mean continuing the Bush bailouts perchance? Otherwise, what are you on about? ACA? Time will tell on that one, and if that's the worst thing he did, it's minor compared to the trillions of dollars and thousands of lives GWB wasted in Iraq.

Quoting PSA53 (Reply 10):
And now,if one wishes, should blame Obama who has been given a free ride with the media.

Free ride? Did you see the Benghazi coverage? Compared to that, GWB got a free ride on Iraq, given the magnitude of the actual issues.
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RE: George W. Bush Library Dedication

Thu Apr 25, 2013 8:30 pm

Quoting kiwirob (Reply 11):
See I was right he does have reading difficulties, one ready does wonder if he's ever been inside a library?

(LOL)Bush answered that today.No.He avoided them when he was younger.

Quoting BMI727 (Reply 7):
Quoting Revelation (Reply 5):
GWB: Worst. President. Ever.

Not unless we lost Jimmy Carter somewhere.

I will agree somewhat with that,but give Carter his dues.He's certainly is one the best post-POTUS ever.And very few former POTUS would engage in such human extension activities as he has.
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mke717spotter
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RE: George W. Bush Library Dedication

Thu Apr 25, 2013 8:39 pm

Quoting flymia (Reply 2):
Always interesting seeing the other presidents talk about one which did not share party lines.

Agreed. It was nice to see them put politics aside for once and just show some respect/admiration for their fellow "fraternity" member. And it made for quite a nice photo op - not too often you get all the living US Presidents together in one spot.
http://imageshack.us/a/img841/5936/31622359apobamabushlibr.jpg

Quoting kiwirob (Reply 11):
See I was right he does have reading difficulties, one ready does wonder if he's ever been inside a library?
"There was a time in my life when I wasn't likely to be found at a library, much less found one," Bush quipped, before thanking his predecessors and successor for the "kind words" and the "examples you set."

http://www.foxnews.com/politics/2013...honor-president-bush-dedicate-his/
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RE: George W. Bush Library Dedication

Thu Apr 25, 2013 10:02 pm

Quoting mke717spotter (Reply 14):
And it made for quite a nice photo op - not too often you get all the living US Presidents together in one spot.

Nice indeed. In retrospect I wonder if GHWB wishes he didn't go with the hot pink socks? I imagine chances are good he doesn't give a damn...
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AeroWesty
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RE: George W. Bush Library Dedication

Thu Apr 25, 2013 10:22 pm

Quoting Revelation (Reply 15):
In retrospect I wonder if GHWB wishes he didn't go with the hot pink socks?

Apparently, this is becoming one of his trademarks. His granddaughter even tweeted a photo of granddad's socks today (pink with polka dots!), and raved that he "loves a good sock!"  Wow!

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ltbewr
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RE: George W. Bush Library Dedication

Fri Apr 26, 2013 12:34 am

Far too many, including myself, here and elsewhere have given plenty of criticism of GWB for many years. I am not going to add more to this discussion here. Suffice to say, today's dedication was a happy fest, with only minor touching of areas of legitimate critical commentary.

At the heart of the Presidential Libraries are the documents and other records of their respective Administrations, which are owned by the public and will be accessible to the public. Far too many records are inaccessible for anywhere from a few years to forever as involve legitimate security and personal privacy needs but far too many for political reasons. I do hope investigative reporters, journalists, historians will search thoroughly the GWB Library records to get more information as to his decisions and policies, the truth behind them, who he met with, their influences.

I would love future Presidential records be in a single place, where all former President or their families cannot control records to put the best spin on them.
 
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RE: George W. Bush Library Dedication

Fri Apr 26, 2013 12:37 am

Quoiting alberchico (Rep 6): "All future limos from Bush onward will be destroyed by the Secret Service to protect their classified armor technology." Maybe so...wouldn't argue.

But for those even remotely interested, when I was at Ford Styling I was privey to a few operations that we were envolved in with a pair of presidential Lincolns that envolved armour "technology". The door's exterior sheet metal was not. A supplier shipped treated steel slabs of (maybe 1/2', maybe 3/4", maybe a bit thicker...don't remember) rolled to a slight crown, and our template (pattern) makers and metal workers surfaced these slabs to precisely replicate the styling countours of the Lincoln body side. The interior door sheet metal stampings were of course reman'd w/ upgraded structure thickness via more plate and these pieces were welded together as an assembly. After class-A metal finishing and paint, they looked exactly like the original production parts (except, of course, they were dimensionally different for the stretch wheelbase and modified lock and hinge pillars plus you needed a team of four or so big men to handle each for install and adjust).

I do not know about the fenders and rear quarter panels. I am thinking the exterior pieces may have been production sheet metal with serious internal reinfs, but don't remember. But, anyhoo, that was the armor "technology" back then. All best...jack
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flymia
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RE: George W. Bush Library Dedication

Fri Apr 26, 2013 12:40 am

To those you think W is such a dumb guy I can guarantee he is probably more intelligent than 99 out of 100 people on Anet.
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Stabilator
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RE: George W. Bush Library Dedication

Fri Apr 26, 2013 1:23 am

Quoting flymia (Reply 22):

Fun read. Thanks for posting that.
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RE: George W. Bush Library Dedication

Fri Apr 26, 2013 1:40 am

Quoting mke717spotter (Reply 14):
Agreed. It was nice to see them put politics aside for once and just show some respect/admiration for their fellow "fraternity" member.

Here's another picture with the five presidents and a future president.

http://media.pennlive.com/midstate_impact/photo/bush-library-62c420f89ba148b1.jpg
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flymia
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RE: George W. Bush Library Dedication

Fri Apr 26, 2013 1:44 am

Quoting Confuscius (Reply 25):
Here's another picture with the five presidents and a future president.

You are talking about the back of Jeb Bush's head right? 
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Confuscius
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RE: George W. Bush Library Dedication

Fri Apr 26, 2013 1:56 am

Quoting flymia (Reply 26):
You are talking about the back of Jeb Bush's head right? 

Nope, I'm talking about Jeb's son, George P. Bush.  
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Aeri28
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RE: George W. Bush Library Dedication

Fri Apr 26, 2013 3:11 am

i hadn't realized the amount of world dignitaries in attendence.

Anyway , I was not particularly a fan of his, but he is no longer in office and this is an occasion afforded each former President. Let him have his day and future whatever it may bring. He loved his country and was elected to two terms.
 
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alberchico
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RE: George W. Bush Library Dedication

Fri Apr 26, 2013 3:15 am

Quoting westjet747 (Reply 18):
Quoting alberchico (Reply 6):
All future limos from Bush onward will be destroyed by the Secret Service to protect their classified armor technology.

How would someone gather any of that classified technology just by looking at it?   

Here's an interesting article:

http://www.boston.com/cars/news/arti...6/cadillac_testing_new_obama_limo/

I found this quote fascinating:

"In the same spirit, the Clinton Presidential Library in Little Rock, Ark., was not given the keys to the 42d president's 1993 Cadillac Fleetwood, which is displayed there.

"We can dust the outside of the car, but if we needed to get inside it, we would have to contact the regional Secret Service office," Christine Mouw, the library curator, said in an interview. "We've had requests from people to exhibit it with the doors open, but we're told we can't do it for security reasons, which is logical."

That is amazing. Even the museum curators are not trusted with access to the car.

Not to drag the thread off topic, but several years ago a mockup of this car was put up for auction and this video gives you a glimpse of the interior:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=y_UQdixHLCY

http://www.messengerpuppet.com/2008/...4/indulge-your-inner-megalomaniac/

[Edited 2013-04-25 20:19:08]
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Aesma
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RE: George W. Bush Library Dedication

Fri Apr 26, 2013 4:45 am

Why are they all looking down ? And why a bullet proof glass only on the side ?
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AeroWesty
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RE: George W. Bush Library Dedication

Fri Apr 26, 2013 5:05 am

Quoting Aesma (Reply 26):
Why are they all looking down ?

I didn't see the whole ceremony, but it looks like some type of prayer or moment of silence going on, since the audience have their heads bowed as well.

Quoting Aesma (Reply 26):
And why a bullet proof glass only on the side ?

That's the side Obama's on.
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RE: George W. Bush Library Dedication

Fri Apr 26, 2013 5:23 am

I am honored to be a student at SMU where the new library is, and was honored to go to the opening. Politics aside, it was an incredible experience and one that I will never forgot. Seeing all 5 living presidents, and more than 20 former heads of foreign states all on my college's campus was unbelievable.
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seb146
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RE: George W. Bush Library Dedication

Fri Apr 26, 2013 5:59 am

Quoting flymia (Reply 2):
For the most part I do think Clinton and Obama respect Bush for the sole reason of the job he held and what a difficult job it is.

Unlike the "patriots" at FOX and AM radio and tea people who assure the American people that Obama and Clinton both hate America.

BTW, the deficit didn't grow much under Bush II because he kept the cost of his two wars OFF THE BOOKS!! Obama put that spending on the books and showed us how much Bush II spent and Obama is the offender? Love the troops until you get the bill, I guess.

Quoting BMI727 (Reply 7):
Not unless we lost Jimmy Carter somewhere.

How dare he try to get us off foreign oil! That jerk! He should have just kept us addicted to oil. He saw a problem and tried to fix it. The nerve!
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na
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RE: George W. Bush Library Dedication

Fri Apr 26, 2013 6:03 am

Quoting Revelation (Reply 5):
What book does it have?
Is it a coloring book?
Or is it a comic book?

His librarian is known to have been briefed to follow this link:
http://www.amazon.com/s/ref=nb_sb_no...url=node%3D4&field-keywords=cowboy


[/quote]GWB: Worst. President. Ever.[/quote]
Sure. Disputed only by those who profited during his rule and who are still not able to use their brains.

Quoting BMI727 (Reply 7):
Not unless we lost Jimmy Carter somewhere.

Carter certainly wasnt very good at his job, but he didnt wage unjust wars or ruined the countries finances for decades so he´s only among the runners-up to Bush.
 
BMI727
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RE: George W. Bush Library Dedication

Fri Apr 26, 2013 6:25 am

Quoting ipodguy7 (Reply 28):
I am honored to be a student at SMU where the new library is

I hope your grandma got you a gold Trans Am.

Quoting seb146 (Reply 29):
How dare he try to get us off foreign oil!

Damn right. It wasn't being paid for out of Jimmy Carter's bank accounts.

He also presided over a country with a poor economy and the Iranian hostage crisis was a huge stain on his presidency. The man's lucky he has had three decades and change to salvage his legacy, and he is much better as a sort of folksy guy next door to Americans than as a politician.

Quoting na (Reply 30):
Carter certainly wasnt very good at his job, but he didnt wage unjust wars or ruined the countries finances for decades so he´s only among the runners-up to Bush.

Actually, that would make him the runner up to Lyndon Johnson.
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seb146
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RE: George W. Bush Library Dedication

Fri Apr 26, 2013 2:51 pm

Quoting BMI727 (Reply 31):
he is much better as a sort of folksy guy next door to Americans than as a politician.

I know that's what people think about Bush II but what about Carter?

Quoting BMI727 (Reply 31):
He also presided over a country with a poor economy and the Iranian hostage crisis

What does a president have to do with what private corporations do? What does a president have to do with revolution in a foreign land? Just because he didn't bomb the snot out of them does not make him a bad president. Violence is not the answer to everything.
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sw733
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RE: George W. Bush Library Dedication

Fri Apr 26, 2013 3:42 pm

Quoting Revelation (Reply 5):
GWB: Worst. President. Ever.

I trust you've spoken to the many, many presidential scholars, in addition to your own research on each and every president and his policies and actions, to make that informed statement, correct?

I'm a huge history buff. I'm not a huge GWB fan. But I simply am not educated enough to make the statement that he was the worst president ever. In my lifetime (since 1983)? Sure, probably, maybe. But ever? That's awfully tough to declare.
 
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RE: George W. Bush Library Dedication

Fri Apr 26, 2013 3:54 pm

Quoting alberchico (Reply 25):
That is amazing. Even the museum curators are not trusted with access to the car.

Museum curators are historians, not security professionals. In the security realm, if there's no need to trust someone, why would you do it?

Quoting sw733 (Reply 33):
I trust you've spoken to the many, many presidential scholars, in addition to your own research on each and every president and his policies and actions, to make that informed statement, correct?

Of course, just like every other a.net poster, I've consulted with countless experts in their fields before posting.
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RE: George W. Bush Library Dedication

Fri Apr 26, 2013 4:13 pm

Quoting flymia (Reply 19):
To those you think W is such a dumb guy I can guarantee he is probably more intelligent than 99 out of 100 people on Anet.

And yet, he made some of the worst policy decisions in the last decades. Intelligence is worth nothing if you're unwilling to question your own conclusions.
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na
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RE: George W. Bush Library Dedication

Fri Apr 26, 2013 4:36 pm

Quoting flymia (Reply 19):
To those you think W is such a dumb guy I can guarantee he is probably more intelligent than 99 out of 100 people on Anet.

So what, the world of intelligent men making horrendous mistakes.

Quoting aloges (Reply 35):
And yet, he made some of the worst policy decisions in the last decades. Intelligence is worth nothing if you're unwilling to question your own conclusions.

  
... and if you trust warmongering advisors like Rumsney.
 
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RE: George W. Bush Library Dedication

Fri Apr 26, 2013 6:02 pm

Quoting flymia (Reply 19):
To those you think W is such a dumb guy I can guarantee he is probably more intelligent than 99 out of 100 people on Anet.
http://keithhennessey.com/2013/04/24/smarter/

Hmmmmmm... Well, I read the article (which, let's be honest, is really an editorial at best), and I didn't see anything there that would support this claim.

I've met three people who've met W (yeah, I know, second hand info & all), and while it is true that he's probably not as dumb as we think (or want to I should say), none saw anything like what this man claims.

While it is true that GWB the drooling idiot is much more trope than fact, making claims that are deliberately opposite suggest something more in line with compensation than verifiable basis and seems defensive at best. Simply put, I get the feeling Keith there is trying to sell a book.

On a lighter note, it did remind me of a Saturday Night Live skit about Reagan from years ago...

Quoting sw733 (Reply 33):

I'm a huge history buff. I'm not a huge GWB fan. But I simply am not educated enough to make the statement that he was the worst president ever. In my lifetime (since 1983)? Sure, probably, maybe. But ever? That's awfully tough to declare.

I think I agree. Bush 43 is a perfect example of archetypical GOP politician, stumbling through disastrous and unpopular decisions while using base fear and appeals to primal emotions to stay in office.

But worst President ever? I guess we've forgotten about Jackson. Or Johnson (the 2nd). It's really too soon to say where GWB will fall historically, but perceptions do matter over the long run, even if they omit relevant information. Who remembers that it was Nixon who started the EPA, Presided over the Lunar Landings and got us out of Viet Nam?

[Edited 2013-04-26 11:03:54]
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BMI727
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RE: George W. Bush Library Dedication

Fri Apr 26, 2013 6:45 pm

Quoting seb146 (Reply 32):
I know that's what people think about Bush II but what about Carter?

He's the old fashioned, kindly but slightly senile guy who tells stories on his porch, which he's much better at than governing. Jimmy does fine building houses, but was woefully inadequate as a politician.

Quoting seb146 (Reply 32):
What does a president have to do with what private corporations do?

You mean besides giving tax credits to customers who buy their products and occasionally buying one?

Quoting seb146 (Reply 32):
What does a president have to do with revolution in a foreign land?

When fifty two of your citizens are being held, it matters.

Quoting seb146 (Reply 32):
Just because he didn't bomb the snot out of them does not make him a bad president. Violence is not the answer to everything.

This is exactly the sort of whitewashing and historical sanitizing that Carter has benefited from.

Carter tried the military option and it was a miserable failure. The debacle of Operation Eagle Claw was caused largely by a disorganized military that was neglected by the Ford and Carter administrations in the wake of the Vietnam war that was woefully inadequate.

But then the 1980s happened, and everybody mostly forgot how much the 1970s sucked. The military got reorganized and re-equipped and the result was the curb stompings dished out in Panama and Iraq. Even many of the things that enabled the Bin Laden raid to be a success can be traced back to Carter's blunder in the Iranian desert.

Quoting Darksnowynight (Reply 37):
Or Johnson (the 2nd).

Only civil rights keeps him from falling below Jimmy Carter, especially considering that many of the current budget problems can be traced to his administration.
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AeroWesty
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RE: George W. Bush Library Dedication

Fri Apr 26, 2013 6:50 pm

Quoting BMI727 (Reply 39):
Even many of the things that enabled the Bin Laden raid to be a success can be traced back to Carter's blunder in the Iranian desert.

So even though Carter blundered, it was actually a good thing, because it caused us to get our act together, if I'm reading what you wrote correctly. That's a spectacular endorsement of Carter I've not read anywhere else. Well done you for pulling that one off.   
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BMI727
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RE: George W. Bush Library Dedication

Fri Apr 26, 2013 6:57 pm

Quoting AeroWesty (Reply 40):
So even though Carter blundered, it was actually a good thing, because it caused us to get our act together, if I'm reading what you wrote correctly

In a roundabout way, yes. The military got their act together and reorganized and the country got their act together and elected Ronald Reagan.

But it shouldn't have taken an explosion in the desert to get leaders to wake up. People love to point out that deficits rose under Reagan, which is absolutely true, but a lot of that was basically necessary spending that was deferred by previous administrations as the military tried to whip itself into shape during the 1980s.
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RE: George W. Bush Library Dedication

Fri Apr 26, 2013 7:19 pm

Quoting BMI727 (Reply 41):
the country got their act together and elected Ronald Reagan.

Well remember, I lived through that era, and it was somewhat different than that. In 1976 a Republican was simply unelectable, no matter how much we appreciated what Ford did. Even my dad, who'd voted for Goldwater in '64, voted for Carter in '76.

Carter just wasn't capable of meeting the huge expectations thrust upon his shoulders, and bumbled badly at times. The collective disappointment gave Reagan a lot support he wouldn't have garnered if a more capable Democrat had won in '76, I'm convinced of it. Incumbents have a natural edge. That doesn't say Reagan wouldn't have won in '80—but part of why he had a 90% pickup in the Electoral College in that vote was due to Anderson in the race, a figure who most likely wouldn't have made a difference, or even run, if Carter hadn't won in '76.

It happened again in '92 with Perot upsetting a bumbling Bush 41, allowing Clinton to win.
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rfields5421
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RE: George W. Bush Library Dedication

Fri Apr 26, 2013 11:01 pm

Quoting AeroWesty (Reply 42):
Carter just wasn't capable of meeting the huge expectations thrust upon his shoulders, and bumbled badly at times.

Carter's biggest mistake was thinking he could come to Washington, sweep out the career politicians and tell the Democrats in Congress how to vote on his priorities. Most of his inner circle in the White House were not very experienced in the way Washington works.

He had more trouble with Tip O'Neill than anyone else.

George Bush had similar problems when he tried to bring up immigration reform and many other issues. His party would not support him - but he was smart enough to not make it a public fight.
 
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RE: George W. Bush Library Dedication

Fri Apr 26, 2013 11:29 pm

Quoting rfields5421 (Reply 43):
Carter's biggest mistake was thinking he could come to Washington, sweep out the career politicians and tell the Democrats in Congress how to vote on his priorities.

I looked this up, because I remembered it a bit differently. Carter did sweep into Washington "like a prick" in O'Neill's words, but eventually they made a formidable team.

PBS Biography: Carter - O'Neill

Quote:
Over time, Carter did learn to prioritize, and with O'Neill's help, built a solid legislative record. The best example is Carter's energy policy, which O'Neill brilliantly shepherded through Congress using every political technique in his considerable repertoire.

But the two couldn't have been further apart in almost every other way.
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seb146
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RE: George W. Bush Library Dedication

Sat Apr 27, 2013 5:32 am

Quoting BMI727 (Reply 39):
When fifty two of your citizens are being held, it matters.

Funny how people forget they were all released as Reagan was being sworn in....

Quoting BMI727 (Reply 39):
Jimmy does fine building houses, but was woefully inadequate as a politician.

Because his family does not have money. Carter is a diplomat. Not a businessman. You can not be a businessman and be president. Looking out for only corporations is no way to run a country. Look at the disaster left by Bush II policies.

I particularly enjoyed the part where they had to clear native Texas prairie to plant native Texas prairie. Right wing minds hard at work....
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RE: George W. Bush Library Dedication

Sat Apr 27, 2013 5:51 am

Quoting seb146 (Reply 45):
Funny how people forget they were all released as Reagan was being sworn in....

After one bungled rescue attempt, over a year in captivity, and a lost election. Great job, Jimmy!

Quoting seb146 (Reply 45):
Because his family does not have money.

Oh yeah, Carter makes tons on Habitat for Humanity.  
Quoting seb146 (Reply 45):
Carter is a diplomat. Not a businessman.

Reagan, Clinton, and Obama were not businessmen either and yet their presidencies were all far more successful than Carter's.

Quoting seb146 (Reply 45):
I particularly enjoyed the part where they had to clear native Texas prairie to plant native Texas prairie. Right wing minds hard at work....

 
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RE: George W. Bush Library Dedication

Sat Apr 27, 2013 3:23 pm

Quoting rfields5421 (Reply 43):
Carter's biggest mistake was thinking he could come to Washington, sweep out the career politicians and tell the Democrats in Congress how to vote on his priorities. Most of his inner circle in the White House were not very experienced in the way Washington works.

Indeed such promises were what he campaigned on. The country was sick of the cronyism of Tricky Dickie's regime. As you point out, though, he didn't get a whole new Congress to work with.

Quoting BMI727 (Reply 46):
After one bungled rescue attempt, over a year in captivity, and a lost election. Great job, Jimmy!

I'm not sure how you can really blame Carter for the bungled rescue attempt. It was a mission that the military could have executed successfully. I know many give Carter crap for cutting back the military, but that should have been expected post-Vietnam, and you really can't make the case that they didn't have the resources to execute that particular mission given the available technology of the time. I haven't seen any evidence of Carter forcing the military to execute the mission nor of any significant push back by the military saying the mission should not be executed. The failure really was due to bad luck: a sandstorm at the refueling site. I'm sure the same people would complain if Carter didn't try to use the full capabilities of the military.

What can be said is the military didn't train a lot for this exact scenario. Clearly they had experience rescuing downed airmen in hostile territory, but they didn't train for long range extraction of prisoners in hostile territory. One outcome of all of this is that the military does train for such missions, and has developed special forces who have better equipment to execute such missions. The hit on Osama Bin Laden was a clear case of using such assets. The mission profile wasn't that different than the one in Iran decades earlier, the main difference was the military had developed better training and equipment to execute the mission.

One aside is that the Boston emergency responders credit drills based on the Mumbai massacre as a training scenario for them being prepared to handle the casualties that resulted from the bomb blast at the Marathon finish line.

Of course Carter would have claimed credit if it had worked and thus gets to absorb blame when it did not, but I think it's hard to make the case that he shouldn't have tried.
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seb146
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RE: George W. Bush Library Dedication

Sat Apr 27, 2013 3:54 pm

Quoting BMI727 (Reply 46):
After one bungled rescue attempt, over a year in captivity, and a lost election.

So he tried and he is the worst ever? Why is Bush II so great when he did nothing to capture bin Laden? In fact, his daddy had the bin Laden family flown out of the United States on the morning of Sept. 11. And Bush II is great?

Oh, wait... I forgot: Any elected official with a (D) behind their name is the worst ever and should always be excluded from any history.

As far as clearing Texas prairie to plant Texas prairie:
http://www.weather.com/news/science/...george-bush-library-opens-20130425
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RE: George W. Bush Library Dedication

Sat Apr 27, 2013 4:01 pm

Quoting Revelation (Reply 47):
I know many give Carter crap for cutting back the military, but that should have been expected post-Vietnam, and you really can't make the case that they didn't have the resources to execute that particular mission given the available technology of the time.

That's exactly what you can blame Carter for. The military fell into a state of disrepair after Vietnam and Carter did nothing about it, and the failure of the rescue attempt and the sloppy invasion of Grenada in 1983 were direct results.

It shouldn't have taken eight dead Americans to get leaders to decide that maybe teaching helicopter pilots to fly near the ground after dark would be a good idea. The post Vietnam administrations neglected the military and as a result they lacked the capabilities they needed, and one can only hope that current leaders have learned the lesson.
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RE: George W. Bush Library Dedication

Sat Apr 27, 2013 4:14 pm

Quoting BMI727 (Reply 49):
That's exactly what you can blame Carter for. The military fell into a state of disrepair after Vietnam and Carter did nothing about it, and the failure of the rescue attempt and the sloppy invasion of Grenada in 1983 were direct results.

It's a perception that's just not borne out in reality.

For instance:



You can see the down-tick in Tricky Dickie's era being reversed in Carter's era.

The military had plenty of resources (a) in general and (b) to complete this particular mission.
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