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clickhappy
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Bolivia Government Falcon 900 Forced To Land?

Wed Jul 03, 2013 4:57 am

As already reported, the Dassault Falcon 900EX that is the Bolivian Air Force 1 was prohibited from flying over Italy, Portugal, Spain and France, due to suspicions it was harboring the "democratic world's enemy #1" Edward Snowden, trapping FAB1 above Austria, and forcing to land in Vienna. Watch the animation of the flight path below how effective the "democratic world" is in making a mockery of due process, diplomatic immunity and all those other highly valued qualities that make living in the "democratic world" such a joy. As for Europe: what can we say - the continent that over the weekend was furious at the NSA for spying on it, expressed its anger by blocking Snowden's airpace.

http://www.zerohedge.com/news/2013-0...e-one-it-gets-trapped-over-austria

Crazy stuff. Can they route via Asia, if needed?
 
sierra3tango
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RE: Bolivia Government Falcon 900 Forced To Land?

Wed Jul 03, 2013 6:30 am

Totally unacceptable diplomatically with a head of state onboard

Imagine any country trying it on Airforce 1
 
cessnalady
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RE: Bolivia Government Falcon 900 Forced To Land?

Wed Jul 03, 2013 6:52 am

Best option would be to refuel in VIE, fly over the Balkans to the mediterranean sea, west over international airspace as much as possible to Africa's west coast, refuel (declaring emergency if needed) in Sénegal, Mauritania, Guinea or Sierra Leone, and then fly accross the stormy Atlantic straight to South America, ideally to Brasil and then Bolivia. Should Brasil and Colombia deny overfly, Venezuela - international airspace - Nicaragua - international airspace - Ecuador - Peru would provide safe passage and refueling. Good thing a Falcon 900 has the legs to do just that.

Amazing this is going on... Let's see if the "leader of the free world" (haha) does not end indeed "scrambling jets" to catch a sovereign nation's presidential plane. We shall see.
 
aloges
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RE: Bolivia Government Falcon 900 Forced To Land?

Wed Jul 03, 2013 7:07 am

Quoting clickhappy (Thread starter):
As for Europe: what can we say - the continent that over the weekend was furious at the NSA for spying on it, expressed its anger by blocking Snowden's airpace.

Well, people may get angry at their overlords, but they still obey them... just think of the information that the Americans could release, that alone should shut up most dissent from European (and other) governments.
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moo
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RE: Bolivia Government Falcon 900 Forced To Land?

Wed Jul 03, 2013 7:15 am

This isn't making a mockery of anything - Snowden is a wanted man with indictments outstanding, that right there is due process as "capturing" is all part of that process. As for diplomatic immunity, no such right automatically exists and those countries can indeed refuse entry or overflight of whomever they wish.

If the police have reasonable suspicion to believe you have a wanted person in your car, you can bet your arse they have the power to stop you on your journey. Same deal here.
 
PanHAM
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RE: Bolivia Government Falcon 900 Forced To Land?

Wed Jul 03, 2013 7:28 am

If diplomatic immunity would mean that an aircraft or any other vehicle cannot be searched in special situation, Assange would not be a prisoner in a London embassy.

As to the flight, the plan was a fuel stop in LIS which was denied, together with the overfly rights which France and Spain denied. Looks like Mr. Morales can continue once his crew is fresh and able to operate the flight and the refuelling bill is paid.
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RWA380
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RE: Bolivia Government Falcon 900 Forced To Land?

Wed Jul 03, 2013 7:41 am

Snowden has no official travel documents, he has a US passport that has been revoked. At this point, he has no way to enter any country legally. He is in no mans land at SVO, so how is this guy going anywhere?

Unless some private aircraft is brought to a place at SVO that he can get to. He then needs to be taken by an aircraft belonging to the country is going to spend his days in, like Bolivia. It is one of the countries he has applied for asylum in.
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sierra3tango
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RE: Bolivia Government Falcon 900 Forced To Land?

Wed Jul 03, 2013 7:44 am

Quoting aloges (Reply 3):
Well, people may get angry at their overlords, but they still obey them... just think of the information that the Americans could release, that alone should shut up most dissent from European (and other) governments.

Two way street that (especially in Europe) ....maybe not so much in North Africa

Quoting PanHAM (Reply 5):
As to the flight, the plan was a fuel stop in LIS which was denied, together with the overfly rights which France and Spain denied. Looks like Mr. Morales can continue once his crew is fresh and able to operate the flight and the refuelling bill is paid.

The question is were the overflying rights denied before or after departing Moscow. Assume it must have been after departure which (if so) is highly irregular and extremely undiplomatic. Sure countries can deny overflying rights but it doesn't sit too well doing it to the Head of State

Bolivia is at a disadvantage, doubt it has many 'Head of States' overflying it, otherwise it could return the compliment. Maybe one day it might get the opportunity
 
PanHAM
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RE: Bolivia Government Falcon 900 Forced To Land?

Wed Jul 03, 2013 7:48 am

Quoting sierra3tango (Reply 7):
Bolivia is at a disadvantage, doubt it has many 'Head of States' overflying it, otherwise it could return the compliment. Maybe one day it might get the opportunity

Tit for tat is not a very mature form of government. The fact that even the remote thought that Morales might have Mr. Snowden on board of his government aircraft speaks for itself. The Bolivian people should think twice about their choice.,
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sierra3tango
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RE: Bolivia Government Falcon 900 Forced To Land?

Wed Jul 03, 2013 7:56 am

Quoting PanHAM (Reply 8):
Tit for tat is not a very mature form of government. The fact that even the remote thought that Morales might have Mr. Snowden on board of his government aircraft speaks for itself. The Bolivian people should think twice about their choice.,

Might not be 'mature' but history is littered with copious examples. Anyway Bolivia banning overflights is not the main point.

So what if Morales does have Snowden on board - he's a Head of State, you don't do this sort of stuff to Heads of State full stop; especially as (it looks as if) overflying was denied whilst the aircraft was enroute

Maybe it is a bad thing for Bolivia for them to shelter Snowden, but that is a decision for Morales & his Government to weigh
 
PanHAM
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RE: Bolivia Government Falcon 900 Forced To Land?

Wed Jul 03, 2013 8:06 am

Quoting sierra3tango (Reply 9):
So what if Morales does have Snowden on board - he's a Head of State, you don't do this sort of stuff to Heads of State full stop; especially as (it looks as if) overflying was denied whilst the aircraft was enroute

Heads of State do not transport fugitives on their government aircraft. Mr. Morales has not done that, obviously, but Mr. M. has given reason enough in the past to let the suspicion rise.

Diplomatic immunity does not give anyone the right to condone criminal acts.

Regarding the other question, denying overflight rights does not mean that the aircraft would be denied landing as well. If the Falcon had been in French airspace at the time they would have allowed landing at a military or a commercial airfield for sure.
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airportugal310
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RE: Bolivia Government Falcon 900 Forced To Land?

Wed Jul 03, 2013 8:07 am

Quoting sierra3tango (Reply 9):

Sorry...but if I was to read into your numerous posts 100%, are you insinuating that "heads of states" are untouchable?

I wonder what Egypt has to say about that, just for starters...
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GIANCAVIA
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RE: Bolivia Government Falcon 900 Forced To Land?

Wed Jul 03, 2013 8:08 am

Quoting PanHAM (Reply 8):
Tit for tat is not a very mature form of government. The fact that even the remote thought that Morales might have Mr. Snowden on board of his government aircraft speaks for itself. The Bolivian people should think twice about their choice.,

The Bolivians don't need to think about anything, America is just chalking up a huge list of countries that will not be favourable to them in the future. From the bugging of EU to this and arming Terrorists in Syria while justifying snooping on its own citizens to stop ironicly "terrorism". The self defeat is flowing out of the white house at the moment.

The USA government needs to worry about the day its own citizens finally stand up against all the bs. I look forward to someone refusing Air Force One permission to enter their airspace and then watch Obama do his hypocritical cry baby routine.
 
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airportugal310
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RE: Bolivia Government Falcon 900 Forced To Land?

Wed Jul 03, 2013 8:16 am

Quoting Giancavia (Reply 12):

While I agree, there are too many passive-aggressive ummm...pussies??..that will ensure that won't happen...
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PanHAM
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RE: Bolivia Government Falcon 900 Forced To Land?

Wed Jul 03, 2013 8:23 am

Quoting Giancavia (Reply 12):
refusing Air Force One permission to enter their airspace and then watch Obama do his hypocritical cry baby routine.

there is a thread in non-aviation where your contribution would be better placed. I could make a point there about real democracies and democratic elected dictators.

To keep it aviation here, the Presidential plane has air refuelling capabilities and they have aircraft carriers as well.
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Pellegrine
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RE: Bolivia Government Falcon 900 Forced To Land?

Wed Jul 03, 2013 8:24 am

Quoting moo (Reply 4):
This isn't making a mockery of anything - Snowden is a wanted man with indictments outstanding, that right there is due process as "capturing" is all part of that process. As for diplomatic immunity, no such right automatically exists and those countries can indeed refuse entry or overflight of whomever they wish.

It is making a complete mockery of freedoms of the air and diplomatic process in direct contravention of quite a few conventions which the US, France, Portugal, Italy, and Spain are signatories to. Snowden was NOT even on the flight. Just because you suspect a fugitive to be on a plane...with no proof...this is not justified.

Quoting sierra3tango (Reply 7):
Bolivia is at a disadvantage, doubt it has many 'Head of States' overflying it, otherwise it could return the compliment. Maybe one day it might get the opportunity

There are always AA flights 980 and 922 MIA-LPB that could be targeted for the sake of reciprocity...

Quoting PanHAM (Reply 8):
Tit for tat is not a very mature form of government.

Maybe, but that is how a lot of international relations go. Anyway that's for non-av I guess.

Quoting PanHAM (Reply 10):
Heads of State do not transport fugitives on their government aircraft. Mr. Morales has not done that, obviously, but Mr. M. has given reason enough in the past to let the suspicion rise.

Germans have done a lot in the past to warrant suspicion. Lest we forget.
oh boy, here we go!!!
 
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moo
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RE: Bolivia Government Falcon 900 Forced To Land?

Wed Jul 03, 2013 8:39 am

Quoting Pellegrine (Reply 15):

Go on, show us these conventions that have been violated - not one of them guarantees the free passage of people legitimately wanted by law enforcement, be them on commercial flights, government flights or in their own private jet.

If reasonable grounds exists, that's enough to take action the world over. And there were certainly reasonable grounds here.
 
PanHAM
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RE: Bolivia Government Falcon 900 Forced To Land?

Wed Jul 03, 2013 8:42 am

Quoting Pellegrine (Reply 15):
Germans have done a lot in the past to warrant suspicion. Lest we forget.

can you specify that please? In non-aviation.
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PA515
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RE: Bolivia Government Falcon 900 Forced To Land?

Wed Jul 03, 2013 8:51 am

Quoting clickhappy (Thread starter):
As for Europe: what can we say - the continent that over the weekend was furious at the NSA for spying on it, expressed its anger by blocking Snowden's airpace.

I'll say it. Spineless hypocrites.

Now they have to explain why they behaved so badly to another head of state in order to please the US government. There will be consequences.

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sierra3tango
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RE: Bolivia Government Falcon 900 Forced To Land?

Wed Jul 03, 2013 8:55 am

Quoting airportugal310 (Reply 11):
Sorry...but if I was to read into your numerous posts 100%, are you insinuating that "heads of states" are untouchable?

I wonder what Egypt has to say about that, just for starters...

The Head of State of a country represents the people of that country - to insult the Head of State of a country is to insult the people of that country. Or put the other way around all the ceremonials that go on around a state visit are the two countries 'Heads' meeting on behalf of their governments / peoples; remember all the perceived slights at such ceremonials, for example flying the Union Jack upside down in Washington during a UK Prime Ministers visit (who isn't a head of state).

Untouchable - no, but touchable only by its own peoples - as in Egypt

The aviation point is (lest we forget) were overflying rights cancelled whilst the plane was enroute?
 
thaiflyer
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RE: Bolivia Government Falcon 900 Forced To Land?

Wed Jul 03, 2013 8:58 am

Quoting PanHAM (Reply 14):
To keep it aviation here, the Presidential plane has air refuelling capabilities and they have aircraft carriers as well.

Yes the plane has theoretically refueling capabilities.
But this is only done a few times in the beginning for exercise and never (and will be never done) with the president on board.
 
PanHAM
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RE: Bolivia Government Falcon 900 Forced To Land?

Wed Jul 03, 2013 9:30 am

Now Mr. Morales was paid a courtesy visit by the Austrian president Mr. Fischer, Spain opened its airspace, the flight can refuel at a Canary Island airport and everyone is happy, except Mr, Snowden and may be a few members here.
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LOWS
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RE: Bolivia Government Falcon 900 Forced To Land?

Wed Jul 03, 2013 9:42 am

Here are some picture's from President Morales' visit today to Vienna. Our President, Dr. Fischer went and met him to try and smooth things over, I guess.

http://diepresse.com/home/politik/au...link=/home/index.do&selChannel=103

(In German)


Theoretically, couldn't the presidental jet count as a "Diplomatic Bag" therefore, non-searchable by agents of another government?
 
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moo
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RE: Bolivia Government Falcon 900 Forced To Land?

Wed Jul 03, 2013 9:49 am

Quoting LOWS (Reply 22):
Theoretically, couldn't the presidental jet count as a "Diplomatic Bag" therefore, non-searchable by agents of another government?

Nope, doesn't work like that.
 
cessnalady
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RE: Bolivia Government Falcon 900 Forced To Land?

Wed Jul 03, 2013 9:50 am

President Morales' plane is reportedly departing VIE now. Where to?
 
oly720man
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RE: Bolivia Government Falcon 900 Forced To Land?

Wed Jul 03, 2013 9:55 am

Quoting cessnalady (Reply 24):

The Canary Islands

Quoting PanHAM (Reply 21):
the flight can refuel at a Canary Island airport




And, to add, the plane has been searched.

Austrian officials said the plane was searched and Mr Snowden, wanted by the US for leaking secrets, was not there.

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-latin-america-23158242

[Edited 2013-07-03 03:02:20]
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cessnalady
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RE: Bolivia Government Falcon 900 Forced To Land?

Wed Jul 03, 2013 10:01 am

Quoting moo (Reply 16):
Quoting moo (Reply 23):

Absolutely wrong. Law enforcement is just another governmental action, albeit not of the executive branch, and it is subject to limits. One of those limits are foreign territories. A presidential plane is off-limits, just as an embassy or a consulate. Taking action "the world over"is overstepping the limits. And Morales' departure of VIE, without his plane being searched, proves the foregoing, medieval apeshit assertions wrong.
M
 
PA515
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RE: Bolivia Government Falcon 900 Forced To Land?

Wed Jul 03, 2013 10:14 am

'FAB1' has departed VIE and is tracking towards Innsbruck on www.flightradar24.com

Just entered Italian airspace south east of Innsbruck.

PA515

[Edited 2013-07-03 03:24:39]
 
dtw2hyd
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RE: Bolivia Government Falcon 900 Forced To Land?

Wed Jul 03, 2013 11:15 am

France didn't allow a Dassault Falcon over its airspace. Next time they should buy a G650.
 
thaiflyer
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RE: Bolivia Government Falcon 900 Forced To Land?

Wed Jul 03, 2013 11:23 am

Quoting moo (Reply 23):
Quoting LOWS (Reply 22):
Theoretically, couldn't the presidental jet count as a "Diplomatic Bag" therefore, non-searchable by agents of another government?

Nope, doesn't work like that.

Ok if that is the case lets search Air force one next time for illegal materials. But i think that you have a few problems with trying that.
 
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moo
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RE: Bolivia Government Falcon 900 Forced To Land?

Wed Jul 03, 2013 11:42 am

Quoting cessnalady (Reply 26):
Absolutely wrong. Law enforcement is just another governmental action, albeit not of the executive branch, and it is subject to limits. One of those limits are foreign territories. A presidential plane is off-limits, just as an embassy or a consulate.

Common misconception, but wrong - embassies, consulates et al are NOT foreign territory, foreign soil or anything of the ilk, they remain the sovereign territory of the host nation, and diplomatic immunity is not a blanket benefit of working in one.

Diplomatic immunity works by the host nation granting those benefits to a set, special list of named individuals and a set, special list of vehicles used for government work from that embassy. It doesn't automatically apply to everything.

A presidential plane is nothing special either, its just another civilian or military plane and can be searched at will by the host nation.

Quoting cessnalady (Reply 26):
Taking action "the world over"is overstepping the limits.

But no one is taking action "the world over" here - regardless of what you would like to believe.

Specific countries denied entry to the aircraft.

And one specific country accepted the aircraft and then searched it.

All of those countries did those actions within their own jurisdictions.

The US is perfectly entitled to ask those countries to do those actions, and those countries are perfectly entitled to say yes or no. That isn't the US taking action "the world over", thats the US using diplomacy to request other countries cooperation.

Quoting cessnalady (Reply 26):
And Morales' departure of VIE, without his plane being searched, proves the foregoing, medieval apeshit assertions wrong.

Except it was searched.

The Bolivian government can bitch and moan all they like, nothing illegal was done here and no jurisdictional boundaries were overstepped - they are calling the refusal of transit permission an "act of aggression", sorry but you have no automatic right to fly over a country in a private aircraft.
 
PanHAM
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RE: Bolivia Government Falcon 900 Forced To Land?

Wed Jul 03, 2013 11:52 am

some on-line news say that the aircraft was not searched but all passengers and crew had to identify themselves, had their passports checked. May be th airport fire brigade checked with a special camera if the a/c was really empty. Save to assume that they have such a device.


Whatever, moo. . Your detailled contribution is based on the Vienna convention and they should keep the original in Vienna, although it certainly did not know about today'Äs modes of transport.

I can't wait for the retaliation coming from La Paz and the comrades.
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bogota
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RE: Bolivia Government Falcon 900 Forced To Land?

Wed Jul 03, 2013 11:52 am

Incredible to see European Governments being such puppets, especially after last weekends evidence of how the US Government treats its "friends". Interesting to see what will be the response by Morales and his friends.
 
ltbewr
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RE: Bolivia Government Falcon 900 Forced To Land?

Wed Jul 03, 2013 12:02 pm

Quoting Pellegrine (Reply 15):
It is making a complete mockery of freedoms of the air and diplomatic process in direct contravention of quite a few conventions which the US, France, Portugal, Italy, and Spain are signatories to. Snowden was NOT even on the flight. Just because you suspect a fugitive to be on a plane...with no proof...this is not justified.

Quoting sierra3tango (Reply 7):Bolivia is at a disadvantage, doubt it has many 'Head of States' overflying it, otherwise it could return the compliment. Maybe one day it might get the opportunity
There are always AA flights 980 and 922 MIA-LPB that could be targeted for the sake of reciprocity...

This was a terrible decision by these countries, but they did so either due to pressure by the USA Government or just to get approval of a new trade agreement by the USA government currently in negotiations.
Governments can regulate airspace, but they should not force the landing of an aircraft with a head of state or top minister protected by well established rules and treaties for diplomatic immunity. Even the worst despots we hate here in the USA are allowed to fly into the USA to speak at the UN or meetings with our leaders.
I wonder if Snowden was return to the USA, and how the USA would transport him. Would a DL flight, with a number of air marshals would be used and if so, would some countries deny it overfly rights as the USA is violating all kinds of laws with it's spy program and out of fear that Snowden would be subject to torture or an unfair trial ? What a mess this could turn out to be.
 
r2rho
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RE: Bolivia Government Falcon 900 Forced To Land?

Wed Jul 03, 2013 12:16 pm

This whole episode has been a[nother] big embarassment for both the overparanoid US and its EU puppet governments. Amazing how a little guy with a handful of NSA powerpoints can shake up the entire Western world. Snowden has already won.

Quoting DTW2HYD (Reply 28):
France didn't allow a Dassault Falcon over its airspace. Next time they should buy a G650.

  
 
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Web500sjc
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RE: Bolivia Government Falcon 900 Forced To Land?

Wed Jul 03, 2013 12:20 pm

according to CNN, http://www.cnn.com/2013/07/03/world/...plane-snowden/index.html?hpt=hp_t2


The plane was denied the ability to refuel in Portugal, and then France, Italy, and Spain denied overflight. While the plane was over Austria they were told something to that effect and were offered Vienna if they wanted to land.

some time during this it transpired that the reason for the fiasco was because of a rumor about Snowden and that Portugal, France, Italy and Spain would not allow the over flight until the airplane had been searched - the bolivian government voluntarily allowed the airplane to be searched and the airplane went on its way.
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aloges
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RE: Bolivia Government Falcon 900 Forced To Land?

Wed Jul 03, 2013 12:24 pm

Wouldn't it be funny if, to avoid further embarrassment, a flight that actually does carry Snowden from Moscow to wherever wasn't searched?   
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sierra3tango
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RE: Bolivia Government Falcon 900 Forced To Land?

Wed Jul 03, 2013 12:27 pm

I was under the impression that such flights have to obtain pre-approval of their flight plan PRIOR to departure (correct me if I'm wrong)

If so the over flying rights were withdrawn in transit by various governments, knowingly

For those siding with the action taken just try to imagine your Head of State being so treated

The point is it opens Pandora's box to such actions by any government anywhere in the world for every Head of State's aircraft to be so treated, I'm pretty sure not even the old USSR took such actions. The precedent is now established and not by some out of the way, back woods rogue state but Spain, France, Italy & ?Austria (or did they just accept them as there was nowhere else to go?)

As a result this type of action will pop up again at some point in the future and that time it might be your Head of State
 
txkf2010
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RE: Bolivia Government Falcon 900 Forced To Land?

Wed Jul 03, 2013 12:27 pm

Quoting Giancavia (Reply 12):
The Bolivians don't need to think about anything, America is just chalking up a huge list of countries that will not be favourable to them in the future. From the bugging of EU to this and arming Terrorists in Syria while justifying snooping on its own citizens to stop ironicly "terrorism". The self defeat is flowing out of the white house at the moment.

The USA government needs to worry about the day its own citizens finally stand up against all the bs. I look forward to someone refusing Air Force One permission to enter their airspace and then watch Obama do his hypocritical cry baby routine.

Well said!
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bogota
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RE: Bolivia Government Falcon 900 Forced To Land?

Wed Jul 03, 2013 12:28 pm

Quoting moo (Reply 30):
Diplomatic immunity works by the host nation granting those benefits to a set, special list of named individuals and a set, special list of vehicles used for government work from that embassy. It doesn't automatically apply to everything.

If that is so why has the UK Government not entered their sovereign soil in London where the Ecuadorian Embassy sits to detain Assange?

Quoting moo (Reply 30):
Except it was searched.

According to the Vice-President of Bolivia, who was just on CNN en Español, the plane was NOT searched. Austrian authorities stood at the door and looked at all the passports of those who disembarked, all which were Bolivian. No Austrian authorities walked inside the plane according to what the Vice-President said.

[Edited 2013-07-03 05:29:59]
 
luckyone
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RE: Bolivia Government Falcon 900 Forced To Land?

Wed Jul 03, 2013 12:42 pm

Quoting PA515 (Reply 18):
Now they have to explain why they behaved so badly to another head of state in order to please the US government. There will be consequences.

No there won't. The EU heads-of-state know full well that they aren't any cleaner than the US government, and it's plausible they now know what the US knows, and right or wrong aren't any more eager for those facts to be spilled than Obama has been.

Quoting PanHAM (Reply 31):
I can't wait for the retaliation coming from La Paz and the comrades.

Without being overly crass and insulting, what exactly are the Bolivians going to do? Stop selling us cocaine? Their Venezuelan allies aren't going to stop oil sales because they need the cash from sales to subsidize their people and their buddies in order to prevent a civil uprising. Should Bolivia refuse overflight rights, the same will be extended to them, which I daresay isn't going to hurt American Airlines too much, but will deny Bolivians their only nonstop access to the States.
 
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Owleye
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RE: Bolivia Government Falcon 900 Forced To Land?

Wed Jul 03, 2013 12:50 pm

FAB-001 has just crossed the Portugese coast heading for the Canaries (?) to re-fuel. Route: Vienna, Milan, Marseille, Barcelona, south of Madrid, south of Lisbon, leaving the Continent south of Setubal. Source Flightradar24

Big version: Width: 1226 Height: 748 File size: 451kb


[Edited 2013-07-03 06:05:39]
 
bogota
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RE: Bolivia Government Falcon 900 Forced To Land?

Wed Jul 03, 2013 12:50 pm

Quoting luckyone (Reply 40):
Stop selling us cocaine?

What a disgusting and ignorant commentary, you should be banned for this. Shame on your mindset, no wonder you find this incident ok.

[Edited 2013-07-03 05:52:45]
 
PanHAM
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RE: Bolivia Government Falcon 900 Forced To Land?

Wed Jul 03, 2013 1:07 pm

Quoting luckyone (Reply 40):

Without being overly crass and insulting, what exactly are the Bolivians going to do?

The answer is: Nada, except some harsh words which he has uttered already. Was a sarcastic remark from my side. Things like that happen, Couple of years ago our very Mrs Merkel was denied overflying Iran for whatever reason, may be she refused to wear a head scarf while over the holy country.

She just shrugged that off.
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Owleye
Posts: 484
Joined: Thu Feb 16, 2006 5:42 am

RE: Bolivia Government Falcon 900 Forced To Land?

Wed Jul 03, 2013 1:07 pm

Quoting r2rho (Reply 34):
overparanoid US and its EU puppet governments

Lovin' this comment
 
luckyone
Posts: 2302
Joined: Thu Aug 21, 2008 1:50 pm

RE: Bolivia Government Falcon 900 Forced To Land?

Wed Jul 03, 2013 1:11 pm

Quoting Bogota (Reply 42):
What a disgusting and ignorant commentary, you should be banned for this. Shame on your mindset, no wonder you find this incident ok.

Ignorant? Bolivia has at one point been the supplier of 1/3 of the world's cocaine and is estimated to be the world's third largest producer. In dollars coca is Bolivia's most important agricultural product, and that money goes to feed people and children who live in areas that at present time don't have a better alternative. Who's the largest consumer of cocaine? That would be the United States. Sorry if the facts are disturbing. If I have to chew on my country's dirty little secrets and short-comings day in and day out by people who gleefully point them out, why shouldn't others?

[Edited 2013-07-03 06:19:15]
 
GIANCAVIA
Posts: 906
Joined: Thu Feb 25, 2010 11:45 am

RE: Bolivia Government Falcon 900 Forced To Land?

Wed Jul 03, 2013 1:21 pm

Quoting sierra3tango (Reply 37):
The point is it opens Pandora's box to such actions by any government anywhere in the world for every Head of State's aircraft to be so treated, I'm pretty sure not even the old USSR took such actions. The precedent is now established and not by some out of the way, back woods rogue state but Spain, France, Italy & ?Austria (or did they just accept them as there was nowhere else to go?)

So far the main report I saw was "Spain and France" refusing it transit and it ended up in Austria because they were happy for it to land there. France has been backtracking and changing its mind over the story all morning. Hilarious after they were the big mouths saying they shouldn't tolerate bugging from US to then bow down to them on this. Gutless. This Would have been a perfect chance to tell Obama to eff off and show him the negatives of treating your "allies" in such a way.
 
bogota
Posts: 652
Joined: Wed Sep 22, 2004 4:10 am

RE: Bolivia Government Falcon 900 Forced To Land?

Wed Jul 03, 2013 1:25 pm

Quoting luckyone (Reply 45):
Ignorant?

Totally, First for starters your country has zero capability to ban or lets say stop cocaine imports from Bolivia, the whole world knows that. Second we are trying to hold a decent conversation for you to rant a flaming comment that has an obvious tint of insult on the Bolivian people.



[Edited 2013-07-03 06:26:57]
 
luckyone
Posts: 2302
Joined: Thu Aug 21, 2008 1:50 pm

RE: Bolivia Government Falcon 900 Forced To Land?

Wed Jul 03, 2013 1:33 pm

Quoting Bogota (Reply 47):
First for starters your country has zero capability to ban or lets say stop cocaine imports from Bolivia, the whole world knows that.

I wasn't aware that was a point of discussion, nor did I imply as such.

Quoting Bogota (Reply 47):
Second we are trying to hold a decent conversation for you to rant a flaming comment that has an obvious tint of insult on the Bolivian people.

Considering the topic at hand was Bolivian retaliation and coca production is the primary revenue source in Bolivia it is perfectly on point. I have nothing against Bolivia.

Quoting luckyone (Reply 45):
In dollars coca is Bolivia's most important agricultural product, and that money goes to feed people and children who live in areas that at present time don't have a better alternative.

You're right. That comment was totally out of line and insulting to Bolivians.   
 
AeroWesty
Posts: 19551
Joined: Sat Oct 30, 2004 7:37 am

RE: Bolivia Government Falcon 900 Forced To Land?

Wed Jul 03, 2013 1:58 pm

The news is reporting this morning that Morales' plane did not have its overflight rights removed by the countries it was claimed had done so yesterday:

Snowden case: France denies blocking Bolivia plane

Quote:
PARIS (AP) — French officials denied Wednesday that France refused to let the Bolivian president's plane cross over its airspace amid suspicions that NSA leaker Edward Snowden was aboard. Spain, too, said the plane was free to cross its territory.

The plane carrying President Evo Morales home from Moscow was rerouted to Austria Tuesday night, in a new twist to the international diplomatic drama over Snowden and the widespread U.S. surveillance that he revealed.

Bolivian officials said that France, Portugal, Spain and Italy blocked the plane from flying over their territories, and angrily demanded explanation.
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