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Dreadnought
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IRS Scandal

Fri Jul 05, 2013 3:46 pm

In case some people have forgotten, it's still around.

Lois Lerner has demanded immunity from prosecution in return for her testimony on the IRS vs Conservative 503 groups, after having taken the fifth in front of Congress last month.

http://hotair.com/archives/2013/07/0...ey-demands-immunity-for-testimony/

This comes after the IRS's own investigation discredited themselves last week claiming that leftist groups also received extra scrutiny (ergo all was fair) - although the numbers were 6 left-leaning groups vs 280+ right-leaning groups, and none of the left-leaning ones ever got invasive questionnaires or extensive delays.

Part of the scandal was the charge that the IRS was giving confidential information from tax returns to Democratic campaign organs in 2012. In response to an FOIA request, the Treasury department is refusing to release any information.

http://freebeacon.com/treasury-depar...-on-austan-goolsbee-investigation/

Quote:
The Treasury Department on Wednesday refused to confirm or deny the existence of an inspector general report investigating whether or not former White House economic adviser Austan Goolsbee illegally accessed tax information on the Koch brothers.

The Treasury Inspector General for Tax Administration (TIGTA), in response to a Freedom of Information Act (FOIA) request filed by the Washington Free Beacon, declined to acknowledge the existence of the report.

“With regard to your request for documents pertaining to a third party, TIGTA can neither admit nor deny the existence of responsive records,” said in its response. “Your request seeks access to the types of documents for which there is no public interest that outweighs the privacy interests established and protected by the FOIA (5 U.S.C. §§ 552(b)(7)(C) and (b)(6)).”

Really??? No public interest in knowing if a federal agency is aiding a political party illegally? Who's privacy are they protecting - Surely not the Koch brothers - the request is not for public disclosure of their returns. Goolsbee's?

One of these days the dirty laundry will be revealed, I hope. I've said it ages ago - the IRS needs to be gutted like a fish.

[Edited 2013-07-05 08:48:19]
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Ken777
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RE: IRS Scandal

Fri Jul 05, 2013 6:35 pm

6 Democratic leaning -v- 280 Republican/Tea Party leaning.

Can we start with how many 503 groups there are on each side of the fence? I certainly remember the Koch Brothers well before the IRS issue were made public. Didn't they fund a lot of Tea Party operations? I have a difficult time, however, remembering any moderate or liberal 503 type operations.

The issue for me isn't that 503's with big dollars got audited (I would be surprised if they hadn't). The real issue is that we need to get rid of the non-profit status of political organizations. There is no real justification for them to have non-profit status and it needs to end.
 
mt99
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RE: IRS Scandal

Fri Jul 05, 2013 6:55 pm

Quoting Dreadnought (Thread starter):
This comes after the IRS's own investigation discredited themselves last week claiming that leftist groups also received extra scrutiny (ergo all was fair) - although the numbers were 6 left-leaning groups vs 280+ right-leaning groups

How many where the total amount of left-leaning groups and what was the total of right leaning groups that applied? To get a percentage. That would be fair comparison.
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Pyrex
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RE: IRS Scandal

Fri Jul 05, 2013 9:03 pm

Quoting Dreadnought (Thread starter):
Lois Lerner has demanded immunity from prosecution in return for her testimony on the IRS vs Conservative 503 groups, after having taken the fifth in front of Congress last month.

She should have thought of that before she took the stand to proclaim her innocence before pleading the Fifth. Now she will have to spill the beans whether she wants it or not or face charges of contempt.

Quoting Dreadnought (Thread starter):
Part of the scandal was the charge that the IRS was giving confidential information from tax returns to Democratic campaign organs in 2012. In response to an FOIA request, the Treasury department is refusing to release any information.

That is the most damning piece of all of this. You could legitimately (if disingenuously) try to make the point that the IRS was not deliberately targeting conservative groups, but that the files just got "lost in the pile", but releasing private tax information on someone to their political opponents (not just in this instance, but several others) is a criminal act, no way around it.

Quoting Dreadnought (Thread starter):
I've said it ages ago - the IRS needs to be gutted like a fish.

Precisely. That is the thing about this whole thing - liberals are trying to pretend that this is nothing, saying that conservatives are looking for a White House connection that does not exist, but if that is indeed the case that just makes it even worse. That would mean that, just like HAL in "2001 Space Odyssey", a machine produced by man has become self-aware to the point of, out of its own initiative, doing everything possible (including destroying people's lives) to defend itself against any challenges to its power. If the IRS was a corporation, we would be calling it fundamentally corrupt and demanding its break-up. Liberals should be praying for some e-mail from some low-level White House or Treasury staffer to the IRS to turn up (I am sure Obama is smart enough not to be caught in any of this, even if it was directed from the top).

BTW, this is the same agency that has basically been given (through FATCA) unlimited power to harass whoever they feel like throughout the world.
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Arrow
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RE: IRS Scandal

Sat Jul 06, 2013 5:12 am

Quoting Pyrex (Reply 3):
BTW, this is the same agency that has basically been given (through FATCA) unlimited power to harass whoever they feel like throughout the world.

And indeed they are well on their way -- FATCA comes into force January 1, 2014 and all the world's banks are being blackmailed into becoming IRS auditors -- at their own expense of course. What staggers me is that all the host countries are lining up to help, negotiating agreements that would force their banks to turn over confidential financial data on their customers to the IRS. Talk about extra-territorial.

There is some hope however -- a lot of those countries are demanding reciprocity. In exchange for giving the IRS financial data on US accounts in their banks, they want the US to turn over financial data on the accounts held by their citizens. And it is highly unlikely that Congress would ever approve that; it might neuter the world's biggest corporate tax haven -- the State of Delaware.
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Okie
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RE: IRS Scandal

Tue Jul 09, 2013 2:28 am

Quoting Dreadnought (Thread starter):
One of these days the dirty laundry will be revealed, I hope. I've said it ages ago - the IRS needs to be gutted like a fish.

Gee and just this last week the IRS released a 100,000 names with SS# of political donors.
Not to worry though the IRS is "assessing the situation" The IRS seems to be acting like spoiled 5th graders, they get caught and they retaliate.

Seven weeks after Obama says we are going to get to the bottom of this 503 scandal and indicated the FBI would be investigating yet no one has been assigned the task. When the head of the FBI was questioned about it about 2 weeks ago he did not know who was in charge of that investigation. That is because there is no investigation. The Executive Branch already has the appearance of being severely corrupt and is not doing anything to help that appearance.


Okie
 
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Dreadnought
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RE: IRS Scandal

Thu Jul 11, 2013 8:27 am

Quoting ken777 (Reply 1):
Can we start with how many 503 groups there are on each side of the fence?

There was an IRS document that indicated the partisan split of 503c4 groups (the group at issue) - as I recall the numbers were roughly equal at around 2,000 each. but I can't seem to find the document anymore. It's probably in one of the old threads here.

Here's an interesting tidbit. This is a 2011 story on the IRS auditing some schools, and Lois Lerner gave a telling quote. She considers such IRS scrutiny as a “behavior changer”, and not simply a request for information.

http://www.businessweek.com/magazine...ser-look-at-colleges-11172011.html

Quote:
Lois Lerner, the IRS’s director of tax-exempt organizations who is overseeing the investigation, says many schools are rethinking how and what they report to the government. Receiving a thick questionnaire from the IRS, she says, is a “behavior changer.”

I didn’t realize that burdening American citizens with lengthy challenges (in the form of invasive questionaires) in order to discourage them from exercising their civil rights is an appropriate function of the federal government.
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Okie
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RE: IRS Scandal

Thu Jul 18, 2013 8:17 pm

Well the first summer break is over and testimony begins again on the IRS.

Bombshell, Carter Hull retiring council at IRS says orders for the additional scrutiny of political targeting came from Washington.
All political targeting was directed by William Wilkins, Obama's direct appointment to the IRS.  Wow!

Things are not looking good for the Executive Branch.

Okie
 
seb146
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RE: IRS Scandal

Thu Jul 18, 2013 8:22 pm

Quoting Dreadnought (Thread starter):
the IRS needs to be gutted like a fish.

So the conservative courts allowed corporations to start up non-profits and launder money to donate to political candidates. IRS was doing it's job but overwhelmed by requests. So, now, it is Obama's fault and IRS needs to go. Because of something the right started?
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sccutler
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RE: IRS Scandal

Thu Jul 18, 2013 8:40 pm

Quoting seb146 (Reply 8):
So the conservative courts allowed corporations to start up non-profits and launder money to donate to political candidates. IRS was doing it's job but overwhelmed by requests. So, now, it is Obama's fault and IRS needs to go. Because of something the right started?

We have no way of knowing whether President Obama was directly involved or not, so that's premature.

As for "doing its job," no, it is not the IRS' job to adjust the degree of scrutiny and delay encountered by lawful applicants based upon the name of the applicant or the political leanings of its constituents.

As for "something the right started," I think you're a bit naive if you believe that all corporations are "right" leaning... or that the big corporate contributors to political campaigns are aligned with conservative principles (hint: they aren't).
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Okie
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RE: IRS Scandal

Thu Jul 18, 2013 9:22 pm

Quoting seb146 (Reply 8):

So the conservative courts allowed corporations to start up non-profits and launder money to donate to political candidates

Try a little research, there are as many more left non profits than right.

Quoting seb146 (Reply 8):
IRS was doing it's job but overwhelmed by requests.

Sorry records show fewer than normal requests. Try a little research.

Quoting seb146 (Reply 8):
So, now, it is Obama's fault and IRS needs to go

The IRS needs to be removed from the political process period, the IRS's job is to protect the constitution and obey the laws of the land. I do not understand your assumption that the IRS should operate otherwise and target people and organizations because of their political, religious or ethnic identification.

The IRS was formed in 1862, every president has had the ability to use the IRS as a political tool since. With the exception of 2 and appears to be 3 every president has had the moral values not to use the IRS as a political tool.

Roosevelt who died before charges were brought forth.
Nixon who had his "political enemies" list, resigned over other issues before the IRS scandal ramped up.

So yes, you answered your own question.

Okie
 
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DeltaMD90
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RE: IRS Scandal

Fri Jul 19, 2013 1:48 am

Quoting seb146 (Reply 8):
So the conservative courts allowed corporations to start up non-profits and launder money to donate to political candidates. IRS was doing it's job but overwhelmed by requests. So, now, it is Obama's fault and IRS needs to go. Because of something the right started?

If you fail to understand the outrage, just listen to what the President himself said about it. He thought it was indeed a problem. And to tell you the truth, besides the usual loudmouths, I haven't seen many tie this directly to the President (surprised to tell you the truth.)

There was a scandal and it should be addressed. Focus on the wrongs and ignore the usual extremists, they'll blame the President for any tiny infraction
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