AR385
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Chile Won´t Let 11 Year Old Rape Victim Abort.

Wed Jul 10, 2013 8:47 pm

Chile, another country where abortion is forbidden under any circumstances is not letting an 11 year old, 14 weeks
pregnant by her stepfather who has been raping her since she was 7, abort.

The President of Chile, Sebastián Piñera said yesterday that the girl had surprised everybody with her "maturity"

Chilean Government spokeswoman, Cecilia Perez, said "There´s nothing medical about a therapeutical abortion."

Ruling party congressman Issa Kort said “Her organism is already prepared to be a mother, to procreate. If we think about the Middle Ages or the beginning of the Renaissance women were mothers at 14, 15 or 16 years of age."

At least El Salvador found a way around the law restrictions to let the severely ill pregnant woman they had to let her abort.

It´s apalling how Latin America still sees women as inferior beings.

http://sociedad.elpais.com/sociedad/.../actualidad/1373431286_120319.html

[Edited 2013-07-10 14:35:41]

[Edited 2013-07-10 14:37:29]
 
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Aesma
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RE: Chile Won´t Let 11 Year Old Rape Victim Abort.

Wed Jul 10, 2013 9:05 pm

Well 14 is not 11, idiot !

The worse part is that if it was their daughter, you can be sure they would have sent her to another country to abort months ago.
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AeroWesty
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RE: Chile Won´t Let 11 Year Old Rape Victim Abort.

Wed Jul 10, 2013 9:07 pm

Quoting AR385 (Thread starter):
It´s apalling how Latin America still sees women as inferior beings.

We have someone here who keeps promoting how far advanced Chile is amongst its neighbors, so I'm very surprised that there's no option for Chilean women to have a choice when it comes to their own bodies.

Quoting AR385 (Thread starter):
22 months pregnant

My Spanish isn't the best, but I think it said 14 weeks pregnant.  
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AR385
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RE: Chile Won´t Let 11 Year Old Rape Victim Abort.

Wed Jul 10, 2013 9:39 pm

Quoting AeroWesty (Reply 2):
so I'm very surprised that there's no option for Chilean women to have a choice when it comes to their own bodies.

Nope. Just like in El Salvador, women cannot interrumpt their pregnancy under any circumstance.

Quoting AeroWesty (Reply 2):
My Spanish isn't the best, but I think it said 14 weeks pregnant.

You got me. Already corrected it. Thanks.
 
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RE: Chile Won´t Let 11 Year Old Rape Victim Abort.

Thu Jul 11, 2013 1:39 am

Quoting AR385 (Thread starter):
It´s apalling how Latin America still sees women as inferior beings.

Generalizations are not good, Latin America is an hugely diverse part of the world with some very liberal and some very conservative areas. Just as most places of the world. Chile is a very conservative society, probably the most in South America which makes this a shamefull event for such a developed nation, the other 4 nations that also ban abortions under all circumstances are some of the smallest and some of the poorest nations in the region.
 
ltbewr
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RE: Chile Won´t Let 11 Year Old Rape Victim Abort.

Thu Jul 11, 2013 3:10 am

It is a shame that this minor female cannot get a legal abortion. This was by any view rape and worse, rape of a child who cannot give legal consent a victim of act of violence. Her body may suffer in terrible pain to carry this child and could die trying.
No female should have to bear a child from a rape or incest rape. The politicians there, like too many elsewhere, are more worried about election/re-election, not having their opponent bashing them for being 'heathen liberals' or not getting endorsement of (hypocritical) church leaders and believers to do the really moral thing and allow some legal abortions in their country.
 
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DeltaMD90
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RE: Chile Won´t Let 11 Year Old Rape Victim Abort.

Thu Jul 11, 2013 5:30 am

Quoting AR385 (Thread starter):
It´s apalling how Latin America still sees women as inferior beings.

This is a sad situation but let's not pretend that Chile is somehow anti-woman, rather pro-life. I have yet to meet a pro-lifer that is against abortion just to screw over women. There are a bunch of legit arguments but this one isn't one of them
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DocLightning
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RE: Chile Won´t Let 11 Year Old Rape Victim Abort.

Thu Jul 11, 2013 5:31 am

Quoting DeltaMD90 (Reply 6):
I have yet to meet a pro-lifer that is against abortion just to screw over women.

Really? I've met lots of them.
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DeltaMD90
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RE: Chile Won´t Let 11 Year Old Rape Victim Abort.

Thu Jul 11, 2013 5:36 am

Quoting DocLightning (Reply 7):

Quoting DeltaMD90 (Reply 6):
I have yet to meet a pro-lifer that is against abortion just to screw over women.

Really? I've met lots of them.

Really? They are against abortion because it goes against women? Well I guess I've met only a tiny fraction of the population, but I'm shocked that anyone would want to randomly punish females like that...

I have heard that if men got pregnant then abortion wouldn't be an issue... I agree with that but I see that as a double standard not being 'against women'
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AeroWesty
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RE: Chile Won´t Let 11 Year Old Rape Victim Abort.

Thu Jul 11, 2013 5:49 am

Quoting DeltaMD90 (Reply 6):
I have yet to meet a pro-lifer that is against abortion just to screw over women.

   The pro-lifers I've run across have had a moral/religious reason for being against abortion. The ones who believe life begins with conception, and that abortion at any stage is the equivalent to murder.
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RE: Chile Won´t Let 11 Year Old Rape Victim Abort.

Thu Jul 11, 2013 9:01 am

Quoting AR385 (Thread starter):
Ruling party congressman Issa Kort said “Her organism is already prepared to be a mother, to procreate. If we think about the Middle Ages or the beginning of the Renaissance women were mothers at 14, 15 or 16 years of age."

Yes, the old "It was fine during the Middle Ages, so why not now"-argument. Lovely.

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Aesma
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RE: Chile Won´t Let 11 Year Old Rape Victim Abort.

Thu Jul 11, 2013 11:57 am

Well "morals" and "religion" for the longest time (and still today of course) will say things like "she did the deed, she bears the consequences" and "she was wearing a miniskirt, can't blame the rapist"...

It's impossible to separate such things from religions, the goal of a religion is to rule lives, and procreation is one of the most important things in life (others being eating hence food restrictions, property hence rules about how to deal with money, etc.). The day a religion has no rule is the day it disappears.
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PPVRA
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RE: Chile Won´t Let 11 Year Old Rape Victim Abort.

Thu Jul 11, 2013 11:08 pm

Quoting AeroWesty (Reply 2):
We have someone here who keeps promoting how far advanced Chile is amongst its neighbors, so I'm very surprised that there's no option for Chilean women to have a choice when it comes to their own bodies.

Not in this case, obviously.

You seem to make a lot of assumptions and generalizations, like in the french restaurant thread re: unions. High time to be more careful about what you read and write.

[Edited 2013-07-11 16:12:13]
"If goods do not cross borders, soldiers will" - Frederic Bastiat
 
AM744
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RE: Chile Won´t Let 11 Year Old Rape Victim Abort.

Mon Jul 15, 2013 5:40 pm

Quoting Bogota (Reply 4):
Generalizations are not good, Latin America is an hugely diverse part of the world with some very liberal and some very conservative areas.

Indeed. Sadly, 'conservative' areas are predominant or dare I say, 'ignorant' areas where conservative interests thrive.

Quoting AR385 (Thread starter):
It´s apalling how Latin America still sees women as inferior beings.

I'm horrified by these news and I'm glad I've spoke in the ballots to make sure these abuses don't take place here. In Mexico City abortion is legal no questions asked. There's a lot of work to be done, but for the most part, important laws have been enacted and are in force at the ground level. For the flip side of the coin, take Baja California. A raped girl was denied her RIGHT to abort, even though it is written in the LAW. Ugh. But then again, people focus too much on perceived 'dangers for Mexico' lol. I guess it's easier to let the TV moguls decide than give some thought to who the hell people vote for.
 
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RE: Chile Won´t Let 11 Year Old Rape Victim Abort.

Tue Jul 16, 2013 12:37 pm

Quoting AM744 (Reply 13):
Indeed. Sadly, 'conservative' areas are predominant or dare I say, 'ignorant' areas where conservative interests thrive.

Conservative areas are predominant in most parts of the world like the USA or Europe, yet liberal areas are also very important in those areas of the world as well. I for instance find many parts of Latin America more open and liberal that most areas in the USA, for instance. So, no generalizations are not good.
 
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RE: Chile Won´t Let 11 Year Old Rape Victim Abort.

Tue Jul 16, 2013 1:06 pm

Quoting AR385 (Thread starter):
It´s apalling how Latin America still sees women as inferior beings.

In this case it should be allowed. We had a case here in Ireland and the law is in the process of being amended. Its the curse of the Catholic church sadly. ! In a recent case here an Indian women was left to die because ''Ireland was a Catholic country'' according to the midwife in charge.

Ireland has approved a bill allowing ‘life-saving’ abortion. MPs voted 127 for and 31 against following an all-night marathon debate in which the Europe minister was ousted over the divisive issue.

http://www.euronews.com/2013/07/12/i...approve-life-saving-abortion-bill/
--
Catholic Church dismayed as limited Irish abortion bill passes

The Catholic Church has reacted with dismay following the 127 to 31 vote passed in Ireland’s government on Thursday to legalize abortion in certain circumstances.

The new bill satisfies a 1992 Supreme Court judgement known as the “X Case”, when a suicidal 14-year-old was raped and refused travel to Britain to have an abortion. The new bill will allow doctors to carry out abortions if the mother’s life is at risk, including the risk of suicide

http://www.irishcentral.com/news/Cat...bortion-bill-passes-215370651.html
 
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OA412
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RE: Chile Won´t Let 11 Year Old Rape Victim Abort.

Tue Jul 16, 2013 3:49 pm

Quoting Aesma (Reply 1):
The worse part is that if it was their daughter, you can be sure they would have sent her to another country to abort months ago.

Precisely.

Quoting DocLightning (Reply 7):
Really? I've met lots of them.

I have too. I wouldn't say it's a lot, but I have met some for whom banning abortion seemed to be for no other reason than to punish women for being "cheap," "slutty," "easy," etc.

Quoting DeltaMD90 (Reply 8):
Really? They are against abortion because it goes against women? Well I guess I've met only a tiny fraction of the population, but I'm shocked that anyone would want to randomly punish females like that...

As I said, I've met some. There are plenty of misogynists out there, some are just more vocal than others. But the truth is that some men just hate women.

Quoting DeltaMD90 (Reply 8):
I have heard that if men got pregnant then abortion wouldn't be an issue... I agree with that but I see that as a double standard not being 'against women'

I think you can construe that as anti-woman to some degree. It's a double standard for sure, but the underlying theme is that something that is fine for men to do, is not OK for women to do.

Quoting PPVRA (Reply 12):
You seem to make a lot of assumptions and generalizations, like in the french restaurant thread re: unions. High time to be more careful about what you read and write.

Having read your contribution to that thread, and your contributions to other threads, I wouldn't be so quick to chastise others for making generalizations if I were you...
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DeltaMD90
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RE: Chile Won´t Let 11 Year Old Rape Victim Abort.

Wed Jul 17, 2013 12:40 am

Quoting OA412 (Reply 16):
As I said, I've met some. There are plenty of misogynists out there, some are just more vocal than others. But the truth is that some men just hate women.

I'll take both yall's word on it. Pretty sick IMO. I still say that they are in the minority and labeling pro-life people as all/mostly anti-woman is just not accurate. We can disagree on views without assuming the worst assumptions about the other side.

For example, I am pro-life (for non religious reasons) but I completely understand pro-choice arguments and I would never call anyone (except maybe Dr Gosnell) a baby killer. Doesn't do any good and that would be completely missing the argument
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PPVRA
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RE: Chile Won´t Let 11 Year Old Rape Victim Abort.

Wed Jul 17, 2013 1:25 am

Quoting OA412 (Reply 16):
Having read your contribution to that thread, and your contributions to other threads, I wouldn't be so quick to chastise others for making generalizations if I were you...

Please enlighten me. Tell me how I made generalizations in the thread about the French restaurant rule.

Quoting DeltaMD90 (Reply 17):
For example, I am pro-life (for non religious reasons) but I completely understand pro-choice arguments and I would never call anyone (except maybe Dr Gosnell) a baby killer. Doesn't do any good and that would be completely missing the argument

Nicely said  checkmark 

[Edited 2013-07-16 18:28:44]
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Mir
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RE: Chile Won´t Let 11 Year Old Rape Victim Abort.

Wed Jul 17, 2013 2:56 am

Quoting DeltaMD90 (Reply 6):
This is a sad situation but let's not pretend that Chile is somehow anti-woman, rather pro-life.

I'm pretty sure an 11 year-old girl delivering a baby presents some pretty significant dangers to her. So I'm not sure how "pro-life" really figures into the equation.

-Mir
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DeltaMD90
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RE: Chile Won´t Let 11 Year Old Rape Victim Abort.

Wed Jul 17, 2013 3:11 am

Quoting Mir (Reply 19):
I'm pretty sure an 11 year-old girl delivering a baby presents some pretty significant dangers to her. So I'm not sure how "pro-life" really figures into the equation.

Never thought at it from that angle. Though I was arguing it wasn't an anti-woman decision
Ironically I have never flown a Delta MD-90 :)
 
Mir
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RE: Chile Won´t Let 11 Year Old Rape Victim Abort.

Wed Jul 17, 2013 3:25 am

Quoting DeltaMD90 (Reply 20):
Though I was arguing it wasn't an anti-woman decision

I would argue that, based on those dangers, it is an anti-woman decision. But going beyond that, I don't think it's even arguable that it's very anti-woman to force a girl to carry a fetus for nine months and then go through childbirth when she was raped. You can't make the whole "personal responsibility" argument here.

-Mir
7 billion, one nation, imagination...it's a beautiful day
 
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DeltaMD90
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RE: Chile Won´t Let 11 Year Old Rape Victim Abort.

Wed Jul 17, 2013 4:20 am

Quoting Mir (Reply 21):
I would argue that, based on those dangers, it is an anti-woman decision.

I meant the intention wasn't solely to screw women over. Then again, I'm not down there, it could be for all I know :/
Ironically I have never flown a Delta MD-90 :)
 
Mir
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RE: Chile Won´t Let 11 Year Old Rape Victim Abort.

Wed Jul 17, 2013 6:03 am

Quoting DeltaMD90 (Reply 22):
I meant the intention wasn't solely to screw women over.

I guess it's a question of whether you need to intend to screw women over to be anti-woman or whether it's enough to know they're being screwed over as a side effect but not do anything about it. I tend to believe in the latter option.

-Mir
7 billion, one nation, imagination...it's a beautiful day

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