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stratosphere
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Zimmerman NOT Guilty

Sun Jul 14, 2013 2:02 am

Verdict is in...Let the riots begin
 
PHX787
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RE: Zimmerman NOT Guilty

Sun Jul 14, 2013 2:09 am

That's what I was saying   

Glad Im in Japan right now. I have to seriously comb through Japanese history to find out the last time someone rioted in this country...over anything that wasn't Narita Airport   
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casinterest
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RE: Zimmerman NOT Guilty

Sun Jul 14, 2013 2:11 am

They should have waited till Sunday Night to report the verdict....
Hopefully everyone remains civil.
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rfields5421
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RE: Zimmerman NOT Guilty

Sun Jul 14, 2013 2:12 am

No real surprise given the lack of real evidence.
 
luckyone
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RE: Zimmerman NOT Guilty

Sun Jul 14, 2013 2:23 am

Quoting stratosphere (Thread starter):
Let the riots begin

Why riot when you can light up my Facebook feed with your opinion? In the past twenty minutes I've counted over thirty posts regarding the verdict.
 
sasd209
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RE: Zimmerman NOT Guilty

Sun Jul 14, 2013 2:28 am

Quoting stratosphere (Thread starter):
..Let the riots begin

I really hope not.... surely we are more civilized than that? Hopefully...
 
flymia
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RE: Zimmerman NOT Guilty

Sun Jul 14, 2013 2:29 am

Really was 50/50 about the outcome. But I believe the lack of real evidence the only correct verdict would be not guilty. The system is made that we would rather have 10 guilty men out free than one innocent man in jail. There is no way anyone not emotionally charged could find him guilty. No way. The Justice system worked today.

Hopefully there will be safe, non-violent protest. Any violence will just make it worse.

Wonder what Zimmermnans plans are. I would head to Canada tomorrow morning if I am him.
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ltbewr
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RE: Zimmerman NOT Guilty

Sun Jul 14, 2013 2:31 am

As I discussed here and elsewhere about this case, no one 'wins' in this case. A young, unarmed, black male is dead. Zimmerman will be a marked man for the rest of his life.

Zimmerman could still face, as with OJ Simpson, a civil liability lawsuit although I suspect Zimmerman has few assets worth getting, if he had any after his legal defense costs, if a money judgment against him to make it worthwhile to go for but for principle.

Like many, I hope there are no violent reactions from those supporting Martin. That would be the absolute worst with more killed and worse racist attitudes toward black males. I also hope those that supported Zimmerman don't take his acquittal as an endorsement of weak gun laws and of the 'stand your ground' laws in public streets.
 
PHX787
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RE: Zimmerman NOT Guilty

Sun Jul 14, 2013 2:35 am

Quoting luckyone (Reply 6):
Why riot when you can light up my Facebook feed with your opinion? In the past twenty minutes I've counted over thirty posts regarding the verdict.

That's what just happened. I made a post threatening to unfriend anyone who states something overly political....or politically stupid...about this whole thing. I have my own opinion, I made that opinion once, in one short sentence, not in a confronting manner...and left it at that.

Quoting flymia (Reply 8):
Wonder what Zimmermnans plans are. I would head to Canada tomorrow morning if I am him.

Eh I'd tell him to come here. Since he's not guilty, he won't have this on his record, and Japanese people have a rather infamous reputation for not caring much.
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stratosphere
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RE: Zimmerman NOT Guilty

Sun Jul 14, 2013 2:38 am

To be honest being this was a Florida jury I am sure they are well aware of the Casey Anthony verdict where the jurors had issues after the trial when they found her non guilty. I figured this was in the states favor they appointed a special prosecutor due to the fallout. I really thought he would get at the very least manslaughter.
 
LAXintl
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RE: Zimmerman NOT Guilty

Sun Jul 14, 2013 2:41 am

     

There was no case here.

It was simply a politically inspired prosecution.
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cjg225
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RE: Zimmerman NOT Guilty

Sun Jul 14, 2013 2:42 am

Facebook and Twitter are rather amusing right now.
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futurepilot16
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RE: Zimmerman NOT Guilty

Sun Jul 14, 2013 2:45 am

Quoting LAXintl (Reply 12):

There was no case here.

It was simply a politically inspired prosecution.

Wrong, there was a good case to be had against Zimmerman, Prosecutors screwed the pooch on this one.
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Dreadnought
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RE: Zimmerman NOT Guilty

Sun Jul 14, 2013 2:51 am

Quoting futurepilot16 (Reply 14):
Wrong, there was a good case to be had against Zimmerman, Prosecutors screwed the pooch on this one.

They did as good as they could. There was simply no evidence to work with - which vindicates the original police recommendation not to prosecute. "GZ claims self defence. We find no significant evidence to suggest otherwise."
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windy95
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RE: Zimmerman NOT Guilty

Sun Jul 14, 2013 2:52 am

A politically manipulated case that luckily for GZ had 6 citizens ,that could see through the bullcrap. Listening to the news and the idiots on them still try to push the race issue. What a joke
 
ATCtower
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RE: Zimmerman NOT Guilty

Sun Jul 14, 2013 2:54 am

Quoting futurepilot16 (Reply 14):
Wrong, there was a good case to be had against Zimmerman, Prosecutors screwed the pooch on this one.

Wrong (in part), there was no case against Zimmerman, guilty or not. The evidence was weak at best, the star witness for the prosecution was a flaming imbecile, and the prosecution tried making it a race issue, not a 'kill an unarmed person' issue. Right though the prosecution sure screwed a number of things up.

Unfortunately I am expecting to wake in the morning to news that riots did occur and while I find amusement in that, it only perpetuates the stereotypes that make us feel they will to begin with...

My $.03
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futurepilot16
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RE: Zimmerman NOT Guilty

Sun Jul 14, 2013 2:55 am

Quoting dreadnought (Reply 15):
They did as good as they could. There was simply no evidence to work with - which vindicates the original police recommendation not to prosecute. "GZ claims self defence. We find no significant evidence to suggest otherwise."

I agree, still doesn't change the fact that GZ put himself in the situation that night that ended so badly. I'm a gun owner, i'm pro gun and I still think how he put himself in that situation was wrong just saying...
"The brave don't live forever, but the cautious don't live at all."
 
futurepilot16
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RE: Zimmerman NOT Guilty

Sun Jul 14, 2013 2:58 am

Quoting ATCtower (Reply 17):
Unfortunately I am expecting to wake in the morning to news that riots did occur and while I find amusement in that, it only perpetuates the stereotypes that make us feel they will to begin with...

Oh please what riots? This isn't the 90s so can we please stop with this biased way of thinking? Who is exactly is gonna riot?
"The brave don't live forever, but the cautious don't live at all."
 
flymia
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RE: Zimmerman NOT Guilty

Sun Jul 14, 2013 3:11 am

Quoting futurepilot16 (Reply 14):
Wrong, there was a good case to be had against Zimmerman, Prosecutors screwed the pooch on this one.

Actually the prosecutors did a pretty good job. There was no case. Correct verdict was reached.

Quoting futurepilot16 (Reply 18):
I agree, still doesn't change the fact that GZ put himself in the situation that night that ended so badly. I'm a gun owner, i'm pro gun and I still think how he put himself in that situation was wrong just saying...

You just said there was a good case against Zimmerman but than say you agree that there was no evidence. I agree he put himself in a stupid situation. Doesn't mean he should go to jail for 10-30 years.

The system worked.

Facebook is interesting. Besides for one black classmate of mine my law school classmates have remained silent which is probably the right thing to do. The rest of them are going nuts. Which is somewhat expected from people who don't know the system that well.
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Ken777
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RE: Zimmerman NOT Guilty

Sun Jul 14, 2013 3:15 am

Quoting flymia (Reply 8):
I believe the lack of real evidence the only correct verdict would be not guilty

Then why did it take a jury 16 hours of discussion/debates? They could have gone home last night after 20 or 30 minutes if things were so clear.

Quoting flymia (Reply 8):
There is no way anyone not emotionally charged could find him guilty.

I'm not emotionally charged about the guy. I believe it is rational to consider him a wanna be cop who couldn't make the grade.

I believe he should have stayed in the car/truck, whatever. Especially as he know the cops were coming.

I believe that his cowboy attitude, puffed up by his gun, led him to follow/stalk a barely 17 year old kid and I believe race had something to do with that.

We know he shot & killed the kid. That makes him a killer, especially to African Americans who have been the subject to abuse and racism. "Not Guilty" means two things: First, he gets to walk out of the courtroom. Second, he gets his gun back with all unspent bullets.

As to his safety, simply no telling. There will be people out there who would have no hesitation getting into it with Zimmerman so that guy needs to stay in hiding from the public. Maybe some work-at-home job with the family kicking in money to keep him sheltered & fed.

Quoting flymia (Reply 8):
I would head to Canada tomorrow morning if I am him.

I doubt that they would want either him or his gun.

Quoting ltbewr (Reply 9):
Like many, I hope there are no violent reactions from those supporting Martin.

I don't believe that there will be violent reactions - for the most part. Local ministers have been working hard to keep things calm.

There will be so reactions - just like in the OJ case.

And, let's face it, Zimmerman is going to move somewhere that is relatively free of African Americans. Dishwasher, working from home, whatever. He needs to be out of sight and not recognized for the rest of his life.

Quoting LAXintl (Reply 12):
There was no case here.

There was a dead kid who confronted the man stalking/following him and ended up being shot.

Martin is dead and that will never change.

Zimmerman is a killer and that will never change.

And the jury did not deliver a verdict in a short enough time to establish that there was no case.

Quoting ATCtower (Reply 17):
the prosecution tried making it a race issue, not a 'kill an unarmed person' issue.

It was both a race issue and a "kill an unarmed kid" issue. Do you really believe that Zmmerman would have followed/stalked Martin if he had been white & wearing a Polo shirt & loafers?
 
PHX787
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RE: Zimmerman NOT Guilty

Sun Jul 14, 2013 3:16 am

Quoting futurepilot16 (Reply 19):
Oh please what riots? This isn't the 90s so can we please stop with this biased way of thinking? Who is exactly is gonna riot?

Maybe this is 12 or so years ago, but one guy makes a threatening gesture at a cincinnati cop, who can't tell if he's reaching for a gun or whatever, who opens fire, and the entire city descends to hell for 15 days or so. (April riots in cincinnati, 2001)

Quoting ATCtower (Reply 17):
Wrong (in part), there was no case against Zimmerman, guilty or not. The evidence was weak at best, the star witness for the prosecution was a flaming imbecile, and the prosecution tried making it a race issue, not a 'kill an unarmed person' issue. Right though the prosecution sure screwed a number of things up.

This. Remember, he wasn't even arrested for 44 days!!!! And that was after so many people were crying and screaming.

This is what pisses me off about the south- people immediately think, since they were the propagators of Jim Crow, they're still racist states. Same happens with Texas and Arizona all the time.

Zimmerman, while having a "white-ish" name, isn't even white!!
I hear about mexicans shooting blacks all the time in Arizona, and vice versa. I've also heard of a Latino guy somewhere who shot a black guy who broke into his house. The Black guy died, and the Latino was not prosecuted.

I mean this was absolute grounds for media, the left-wing twitterverse, and the NAACP for them to unleash their absolute fury.

There's an extended version of my argument and I will no longer comment on my position.

Quoting cjg225 (Reply 13):
Facebook and Twitter are rather amusing right now.

Here in Japan, this isn't even trending. Not one Japanese friend posted about this.

Here is what's trending here:
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cjg225
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RE: Zimmerman NOT Guilty

Sun Jul 14, 2013 3:23 am

Quoting Ken777 (Reply 21):
Here in Japan, this isn't even trending. Not one Japanese friend posted about this.

Here is what's trending here:

Well, it is kind of an American story....

And photos like that one are why I love Japan. lol I saw a hilarious Japanese Domino's commercial earlier today featuring Hatsune Miku. So full of win.
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futurepilot16
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RE: Zimmerman NOT Guilty

Sun Jul 14, 2013 3:28 am

Quoting flymia (Reply 20):
Actually the prosecutors did a pretty good job. There was no case. Correct verdict was reached.

Oh you mean Queen Kong aka Martin's GF (or whatever she was) who didn't seem like she had one intelligent thought in her mind...ya THAT was a real winner  

Sarcasm aside, I must say that the defense mopped the floor with the prosecution, not because there was no case, but because of how it was argued. Now i'm not a lawyer or anything, I just feel like the prosecution shot themselves in the foot way too many times.

Quoting flymia (Reply 20):
You just said there was a good case against Zimmerman but than say you agree that there was no evidence. I agree he put himself in a stupid situation. Doesn't mean he should go to jail for 10-30 years.

I agree on the fact that there was a lack of evidence, but I still think there was a case there, even for manslaughter
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Mir
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RE: Zimmerman NOT Guilty

Sun Jul 14, 2013 3:39 am

Quoting dreadnought (Reply 15):
There was simply no evidence to work with - which vindicates the original police recommendation not to prosecute. "GZ claims self defence. We find no significant evidence to suggest otherwise."

And the unfortunate part about that is that the truth is never really known - we never got to hear Martin's side of the story.

Anyway, hopefully this case will persuade some people not to go looking for trouble, trying to play hero/vigilante.

-Mir
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ATCtower
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RE: Zimmerman NOT Guilty

Sun Jul 14, 2013 3:44 am

Quoting futurepilot16 (Reply 19):
Oh please what riots? This isn't the 90s so can we please stop with this biased way of thinking? Who is exactly is gonna riot?

Yeah, since the 1990s are so long ago and the first person on MSNBC commenting on this was his royal idiocy al sharpton (refuse to capitalize his name, sorry) who has a history of promoting blacks to find race issues with EVERYTHING down to the two cent higher price in minority areas of Detroit on produce at a locally run grocery store (look it up, he sued). I normally would think the same, no riots, no way. Except I lived in South Florida and it is a completely different world down there. I fully expect the implications of the verdict to make the news on a large scale.

Quoting flymia (Reply 20):
The system worked.

Right or wrong, that really is the way it needs to be viewed.

Quoting Ken777 (Reply 21):
It was both a race issue and a "kill an unarmed kid" issue. Do you really believe that Zmmerman would have followed/stalked Martin if he had been white & wearing a Polo shirt & loafers?

I think Zimmerman may be so zealous that he would have. Either way, since we will never know, it is a moot point and in your argument you are inherently perpetuating the issue of it being a race related issue. I know there are some 'good ole boys' who cant let the klan die, and some extremists on all sides, but furthering any issue on race bases sets race relations back. I do realize not everyone can see things the way I do but every time something like this hits the news and DF sharpton gets time on tv, it does not help close the racial divide.

Quoting futurepilot16 (Reply 24):
I agree on the fact that there was a lack of evidence, but I still think there was a case there, even for manslaughter

Saying yourself that you arent a lawyer, you greatly need to explain this. A lack of evidence is a lack of evidence. The burden of proof is the same for murder as manslaughter. If the circumstances warrant a different conviction that is one thing but to say 'lack of evidence, no murder' then say 'lack of evidence, manslaughter' is absurd. It needs to be proven beyond a reasonable doubt no matter the charge, trespassing or aggravated murder.
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DeltaMD90
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RE: Zimmerman NOT Guilty

Sun Jul 14, 2013 3:44 am

Quoting Ken777 (Reply 21):
I believe he should have stayed in the car/truck, whatever. Especially as he know the cops were coming.

I believe that his cowboy attitude, puffed up by his gun, led him to follow/stalk a barely 17 year old kid and I believe race had something to do with that.

He may have acted stupidly, but what he did was not against the law. Also, "you believing something" isn't proving anything. That's what it boiled down to, at best, most people were only "pretty sure" he was guilty but our justice system demands more than that

And all this rubbish on riots... come on, don't buy into the media hype. The media already inserted their dirty, truly racist hands into the matter, I highly doubt we'll see anything crazy happening
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cjg225
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RE: Zimmerman NOT Guilty

Sun Jul 14, 2013 3:45 am

Quoting Mir (Reply 25):
And the unfortunate part about that is that the truth is never really known - we never got to hear Martin's side of the story.

Can't that be said of almost every homicide prosecution?
Restoring Penn State's transportation heritage...
 
Type-Rated
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RE: Zimmerman NOT Guilty

Sun Jul 14, 2013 3:50 am

To tell you the truth, I am just very glad this is over!
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LAXintl
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RE: Zimmerman NOT Guilty

Sun Jul 14, 2013 3:56 am

Quoting dreadnought (Reply 15):
which vindicates the original police recommendation not to prosecute. "GZ claims self defence. We find no significant evidence to suggest otherwise."

  

Everything was fine until politicos got involved and wanted to make this some sort of civil rights case.

Quoting Ken777 (Reply 21):
That makes him a killer, especially to African Americans who have been the subject to abuse and racism.

You sound like Al Sharpton and Jesse Jackson who managed to start a media circus trying to make this a race thing.

Quoting Ken777 (Reply 21):
It was both a race issue and a "kill an unarmed kid" issue. Do you really believe that Zmmerman would have followed/stalked Martin if he had been white & wearing a Polo shirt & loafers?

How about entering the gated community via the front door, not hoping a fence.

There had been multiple recent issues in the community with people gaining access including damaging property which was the whole reason for neighborhood watch being out there to start with.
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flymia
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RE: Zimmerman NOT Guilty

Sun Jul 14, 2013 3:57 am

1. I hate Pierce Morgan trying to search for that race quote from Zimmerman's brother. He in my mind is such an unprofessional idiot. Zimmerman's brother is doing a fantastic job. I wish Morgan was off the air already. Surprised Zimmerman's brother hasn't walked away from the desk. Its disgusting.

Quoting Ken777 (Reply 21):
Then why did it take a jury 16 hours of discussion/debates? They could have gone home last night after 20 or 30 minutes if things were so clear.

Because the jury did a good job. And again I think the prosecution did a decent job with the case they had.

Quoting Ken777 (Reply 21):
I'm not emotionally charged about the guy. I believe it is rational to consider him a wanna be cop who couldn't make the grade.

I believe he should have stayed in the car/truck, whatever. Especially as he know the cops were coming.

I believe that his cowboy attitude, puffed up by his gun, led him to follow/stalk a barely 17 year old kid and I believe race had something to do with that.

Not against he law.

Quoting Ken777 (Reply 21):
There will be people out there who would have no hesitation getting into it with Zimmerman so that guy needs to stay in hiding from the public. Maybe some work-at-home job with the family kicking in money to keep him sheltered & fed.

Agreed. I would hire an immigration attorney and start looking for a country who would take him. I think he has an asylum case. If someone was as hated as George Zimmerman is in another country. His face and name on national TV the U.S. would give that person asylum.

Quoting futurepilot16 (Reply 24):
Now i'm not a lawyer or anything, I just feel like the prosecution shot themselves in the foot way too many times.

They made some mistakes but it was not an easy case.

Quoting futurepilot16 (Reply 24):
I agree on the fact that there was a lack of evidence, but I still think there was a case there, even for manslaughter

Murder 2 was always off the table IMO.

Quoting futurepilot16 (Reply 24):
I must say that the defense mopped the floor with the prosecution

Agreed. Great lawyers.

Quoting DeltaMD90 (Reply 27):
He may have acted stupidly, but what he did was not against the law.

Exactly. People need to understand this. So many of the bad facts for Zimmerman had nothing to do with breaking any laws.
"It was just four of us on the flight deck, trying to do our job" (Captain Al Haynes)
 
flyguy89
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RE: Zimmerman NOT Guilty

Sun Jul 14, 2013 4:23 am

Quoting ltbewr (Reply 9):
Zimmerman could still face, as with OJ Simpson, a civil liability lawsuit although I suspect Zimmerman has few assets worth getting

I wonder though if he would sue some of the media outlets like MSNBC for libel in editing the 911 call, or the other (can't remember which one) who released his social security number etc.

Quoting futurepilot16 (Reply 18):
I'm a gun owner, i'm pro gun and I still think how he put himself in that situation was wrong just saying...

Sure, but in the eyes of the justice system that's irrelevant, simply following him wasn't illegal, ill-advised perhaps, but you can't put someone away for it.

Quoting Ken777 (Reply 21):
Then why did it take a jury 16 hours of discussion/debates?

Considering the judge let the prosecution slip in a manslaughter charge at the last minute and the shear length of trial and testimony/evidence to consider, 16 hours isn't really that long.

Quoting Ken777 (Reply 21):
I believe it is rational to consider him a wanna be cop who couldn't make the grade.

You have every right to your opinion and your personal judgement of him, but with regard to the law, it was equally rational to consider that he was attacked and defended himself based on the evidence (or lack thereof apparently), and that's all that matters.

Quoting Ken777 (Reply 21):
Do you really believe that Zmmerman would have followed/stalked Martin if he had been white & wearing a Polo shirt & loafers?

So black people can't/don't wear polo shirts and loafers? Honestly if the guy had been white and wearing baggy clothes and a hoody it would have probably looked equally suspicious. In the end though neither of us are mind readers and don't know how he thinks or what he believes. From the get-go however, the media and all the usual NAACP ambulance chasers have been on this case like white on rice, blowing it up and sensationalizing it in an irresponsible way.

Quoting flymia (Reply 31):
I hate Pierce Morgan trying to search for that race quote from Zimmerman's brother.

I'm totally with you there. Hey Britain, can you please please please take this guy back?

[Edited 2013-07-13 21:27:48]
 
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Dreadnought
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RE: Zimmerman NOT Guilty

Sun Jul 14, 2013 4:26 am

Quoting futurepilot16 (Reply 18):
I agree, still doesn't change the fact that GZ put himself in the situation that night that ended so badly. I'm a gun owner, i'm pro gun and I still think how he put himself in that situation was wrong just saying...

No argument there. As I said in the other thread:

Quoting dreadnought (Reply 217):
This was no victory on either side. The whole thing was a tragedy. Zimmerman, in his arrogance, got himself into a situation that he was ill-prepared-for. Martin, in his arrogance, decided to double back and see who was behind him, and having seen that it wasn't a cop, decided to "fix his wagon". Two idiots met in the dark that night. There is nothing to celebrate.
Forget dogs and cats - Spay and neuter your liberals.
 
seb146
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RE: Zimmerman NOT Guilty

Sun Jul 14, 2013 4:32 am

That's too bad. A man with anger issues who brings a gun to a fist fight murders a pot head with tagging issues and the pot head is tried and convicted and the angry man with a gun is the victim.

Welcome to the South!
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DeltaMD90
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RE: Zimmerman NOT Guilty

Sun Jul 14, 2013 4:58 am

Quoting seb146 (Reply 34):
That's too bad. A man with anger issues who brings a gun to a fist fight murders a pot head with tagging issues and the pot head is tried and convicted and the angry man with a gun is the victim.

Welcome to the South!

Um, this is the Zimmerman case, not some strange right wing horrorland case you've dreamed up yet again
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DocLightning
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RE: Zimmerman NOT Guilty

Sun Jul 14, 2013 5:44 am

I've always said that it is better for a guilty man to walk than for an innocent man to hang. I'm not happy about this "stand-your-ground" law and I'm not happy that this guy (who clearly has a violent history) is out on the streets again, but I'd rather the system err in that direction.

Let us not forget, BTW, that throwing him in jail, putting him in the electric chair, or slowly slicing his genitals off with a rusty knife aren't going to bring Trayvon back to life.
-Doc Lightning-

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DeltaMD90
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RE: Zimmerman NOT Guilty

Sun Jul 14, 2013 5:55 am

Quoting DocLightning (Reply 36):
I'm not happy about this "stand-your-ground" law

I'm glad to hear that someone who is against this law has the tone you do. NOW is the time to discuss whether we need to keep SYG, modify it, or trash it. Too many people thought the law was rubbish and in turn, thought Zimmerman was guilty. I think (and keep in mind, I wasn't in the courtroom) that Zimmerman acted stupidly but according to the law on the books, he did not do anything illegal.

You can't simply say the law is stupid, it should be X or Y, Zimmerman would have definitely broken it then, therefore he is guilty

As someone who is pro-self defense, I do have a problem with this law. I can see cases where, due to how people think and perceive things, both think they are "standing their ground" and someone in turn is gonna wind up being dead. I also think that it is wrong, in many cases, to be totally in the right but stand your ground when you can easily and safely retreat without putting yourself in a situation where you have to shoot someone. If you can't retreat, by all means, protect yourself, but if you can retreat, don't just stay there because you legally have the right to kill somebody. That's wrong in my book
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OA412
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RE: Zimmerman NOT Guilty

Sun Jul 14, 2013 6:55 am

You have to prove guilt beyond a reasonable doubt, and prosecutors failed to do that. I'm really unhappy about the verdict, but the case was difficult because the only real witness is dead.

Quoting LAXintl (Reply 10):
There was no case here.

It was simply a politically inspired prosecution.

  Yes it's all politically motivated. Of course.

Quoting windy95 (Reply 14):
A politically manipulated case that luckily for GZ had 6 citizens ,that could see through the bullcrap. Listening to the news and the idiots on them still try to push the race issue. What a joke

If Trayvon Martin was white, he wouldn't have ever been shot by Zimmerman. If George Zimmerman was black, he would arrested on the spot rather than being given the benefit of the doubt. Let's dispense with the crap that race is not an element in this case. Racism is alive and well in America. You want to pretend otherwise, fine, but in doing so you're being intentionally disingenuous.

Quoting Ken777 (Reply 19):
I'm not emotionally charged about the guy. I believe it is rational to consider him a wanna be cop who couldn't make the grade.

Indeed. I worked in law enforcement for several years, and I came across many guys similar to Zimmerman. They were all the same, fancying themselves as sorts of vigilantes out to save the world, and often ignoring the advice of law enforcement.

Quoting Ken777 (Reply 19):
I believe he should have stayed in the car/truck, whatever. Especially as he know the cops were coming.

Agreed.

Quoting Ken777 (Reply 19):
I believe that his cowboy attitude, puffed up by his gun, led him to follow/stalk a barely 17 year old kid and I believe race had something to do with that.

I agree with you as well. If Martin was white, he would not have been followed. That's just reality.

Quoting Mir (Reply 23):
Anyway, hopefully this case will persuade some people not to go looking for trouble, trying to play hero/vigilante.

Hopefully.

Quoting LAXintl (Reply 28):
Everything was fine until politicos got involved and wanted to make this some sort of civil rights case.

We can ignore the fact that racism is alive and well in America, or we can all try and work together to confront our demons, ask ourselves the tough questions, and move toward a better society.

Quoting LAXintl (Reply 28):
You sound like Al Sharpton and Jesse Jackson who managed to start a media circus trying to make this a race thing.

Race is an element in this case. Arguing otherwise is simple intellectual dishonesty.

Quoting LAXintl (Reply 28):
How about entering the gated community via the front door, not hoping a fence.

There had been multiple recent issues in the community with people gaining access including damaging property which was the whole reason for neighborhood watch being out there to start with.


Hopping a fence shouldn't be grounds for murdering someone. People damaging property is obviously illegally, but Zimmerman should have allowed cops to deal with it rather than trying to take the law into his own hands. He was on the phone with police, he should have followed the advice of dispatch and allowed officers to handle the situation. He didn't and now we have one dead teenager, and a man who is now a murder and marked for life. Neither side won here.
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PHX787
Posts: 7877
Joined: Thu Mar 15, 2012 7:46 pm

RE: Zimmerman NOT Guilty

Sun Jul 14, 2013 7:02 am

Has any rioting occurred?

Quoting OA412 (Reply 36):
Race is an element in this case. Arguing otherwise is simple intellectual dishonesty.

The only race evidence I saw during this whole time was the testimony by that one friend who was on the phone with Trayvon, where she claimed Trayvon was being followed by a "cracka"
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Maverick623
Posts: 4636
Joined: Thu Nov 30, 2006 9:13 am

RE: Zimmerman NOT Guilty

Sun Jul 14, 2013 7:21 am

Quoting windy95 (Reply 14):
Listening to the news and the idiots on them still try to push the race issue.

  

I heard one of the CNN idiots actually say that her "Spidey Sense" was telling her whatever she was saying.

Quoting DocLightning (Reply 34):
(who clearly has a violent history)

He does?

Quoting OA412 (Reply 36):
because the only real witness is dead.

So Zimmerman isn't a witness? Why does Trayvon's word become the word of God? Was he not a part of the fight?

Quoting OA412 (Reply 36):
Let's dispense with the crap that race is not an element in this case.

Race was an element, but not by Zimmerman.

Quoting OA412 (Reply 36):
You want to pretend otherwise, fine, but in doing so you're being intentionally disingenuous.

You're the only one pretending. There is zero evidence to suggest that Zimmerman targeted Trayvon because of his skin color.
"PHX is Phoenix, PDX is the other city" -777Way
 
PanHAM
Posts: 8533
Joined: Fri May 06, 2005 6:44 pm

RE: Zimmerman NOT Guilty

Sun Jul 14, 2013 7:25 am

Quoting flymia (Reply 6):
The system is made that we would rather have 10 guilty men out free than one innocent man in jail.

Tell that to Debra Milke in AZ and Jens Soering in VA, they'll be pleased to hear that they have a chance to be free very soon.
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chrisair
Posts: 1776
Joined: Fri Sep 01, 2000 11:32 pm

RE: Zimmerman NOT Guilty

Sun Jul 14, 2013 7:30 am

Quoting PHX787 (Reply 37):
Has any rioting occurred?

Why yes! In (surprise surprise) Oakland.

http://www.sfgate.com/bayarea/articl...ash-windows-in-Oakland-4664343.php

Quote:
Across the bay in Oakland, however, about 125 protesters gathered at Frank Ogawa Plaza outside City Hall before marching through downtown, starting small fires and smashing windows at the Wells Fargo Bank at 12th Street and Broadway and at several businesses, including the Dogwood Bar.
 
CaliAtenza
Posts: 1626
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RE: Zimmerman NOT Guilty

Sun Jul 14, 2013 7:33 am

my question is this, and i dont mean any offence, but what makes Trayvon so special? I know its really tragic and sad that a child and a son is dead..but so many kids and black men and women..not to mention people in general, die every day in this country. What makes him stand out from those people? Where is the media coverage for them?
 
ROSWELL41
Posts: 755
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RE: Zimmerman NOT Guilty

Sun Jul 14, 2013 7:55 am

Justice was done tonight and I'm glad these six women jurors realized that George Zimmerman was defending himself against a vicious attack by a troubled teen. If only there were a way for Zimmerman to recover damages from that over zealous prosecutor Angela Corey. This was a case of classical self defense and has nothing to do with 'Stand your Ground'.
 
flyguy89
Posts: 1930
Joined: Tue Feb 24, 2009 6:43 pm

RE: Zimmerman NOT Guilty

Sun Jul 14, 2013 8:13 am

Quoting OA412 (Reply 36):
Yes it's all politically motivated. Of course.

...because it was? The police reached the same conclusion as the courts until Al Sharpton and President Obama got involved.

Quoting OA412 (Reply 36):

If Trayvon Martin was white, he wouldn't have ever been shot by Zimmerman.

Oh? Can you read minds?

Quoting OA412 (Reply 36):
If George Zimmerman was black, he would arrested on the spot rather than being given the benefit of the doubt.

Really? So blacks never go uncharged for shootings?

Quoting OA412 (Reply 36):
Let's dispense with the crap that race is not an element in this case.

The only patent "crap" in this case is the idea that race was an element. From the get-go, once Al Sharpton and President Obama gave the case national attention, the media and NAACP ambulance chasers like Al Sharpton have relentlessly worked to inject racism into the case.

First it was reported that Zimmerman, a white guy, shot an unarmed black teenager...oops, then it was discovered he wasn't white and was in fact half Hispanic, so then the media starts calling him a "White Hispanic" (newly minted racial term now apparently, invented by our great institution of journalistic integrity). Next we get CNN going crazy, stating Zimmerman called Martin a "coon"...but oops again, it was later discovered he was actually saying "cold". After that awesome piece of journalism, we get ABC repeatedly playing an edited version of the 911 call with the overt attempt at making it sound like Zimmerman offered up the information that Martin was black without provocation, despite the fact that he was really responding to the specific question from the 911 operator. Even after that editing fiasco which forced ABC's hand to fire some staffers, the New York Times followed by doing the same thing in print. It was also reported countless times that Martin was shot while walking through a "mostly white, gated community", implying it was some upscale white suburb despite the fact that the development is decidedly lower-middle class and racially mixed.

At practically every turn in this case, the barrage of racism that the media and others kept trying to inject, weave and outright fabricate at times was always belied by the facts and reality of the situation.

Quoting OA412 (Reply 36):
If Martin was white, he would not have been followed. That's just reality.

And it's also reality that there have been a number of cases of whites (never mind the fact that Zimmerman isn't white) shooting other whites under similar "stand your ground" laws, your conjecture does not stand up to reality.

Quoting OA412 (Reply 36):
Race is an element in this case.

If you really believe so, present a logical argument as to why, mind reading does not count as reasoning.

Quoting OA412 (Reply 36):
Hopping a fence shouldn't be grounds for murdering someone.

That was never the argument.

Quoting OA412 (Reply 36):
Neither side won here.

On this we do agree.
 
ImperialEagle
Posts: 2238
Joined: Sat Jan 14, 2006 10:53 am

RE: Zimmerman NOT Guilty

Sun Jul 14, 2013 11:44 am

Quoting ltbewr (Reply 7):
no one 'wins' in this case.
Quoting LAXintl (Reply 10):
There was no case here.
Quoting LAXintl (Reply 10):
It was simply a politically inspired prosecution.
Quoting dreadnought (Reply 13):
There was simply no evidence to work with
Quoting windy95 (Reply 14):
A politically manipulated case

If this were not politically motivated then why did the mainstream media constantly show the public an old photo of Trayvon as a cute little 12 year old with a hoodie on? When I finally saw a photo of the "full sized" "grown-up" version of Trayvon then I could see how Trayvon might have flipped Zimmerman to the ground and pummeled him. This was what the jury was shown.

Whatever-----Trayvon did not deserve to die and Zimmerman will now have to live with it. Two souls have died.
"If everything seems under control, you're just not going fast enough!"
 
KPDX
Posts: 2373
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RE: Zimmerman NOT Guilty

Sun Jul 14, 2013 1:03 pm

Quoting ImperialEagle (Reply 44):
If this were not politically motivated then why did the mainstream media constantly show the public an old photo of Trayvon as a cute little 12 year old with a hoodie on?

I never understood this either, but to me, the intentions were clear. And clearly, this guy wasn't the angel the media tried to portray him as. Here are some gems from Martin's Twitter account.


RT @ReesyyLaTootieB: Hahaha Hoe u got USED fa yo loose ass p*ssy.! Tighten up.! #Literally

RT @fukunurhoexxx: #youthetype of b*tch that give up your p*ssy for free and think its cool #p*ssyaintfree #fb

RT @TheSoleManSB: We in need of some trees … Wea tha weed man

RT @MisunderstoodC_: Get high to balance out the lows

RT @___xMaxDee: I got game for you young hoes, don’t grow to be a dumm hoe

RT @Bombshelll_: “@La_VidaBella: I’ll beat the pu**sy up up up up up up up up up up up up up up up up up up up up up up up up up”

RT @iTeachSEXOLOGY: d*ck slipping out when you got her in doggy? Either u trying to long stroke wit a short d*ck or she need to arch tha …

RT @Mitchell_Garcia: I’ll slap a girl if she said suck my toes wtf, she must be giving some great dome
for some sh*t like that òÕ òÕ òÕ

RT @ThatBitchJenny_: A f*ck n*gga is FOREVER a f*ck n*gga! Fu*ck ‘em!

RT @iAmCartoonFYF: 6 Pound 7 Pound 8 Pound #KUSH

RT @GrandadJFreeman: You know you high AF when you stop at a stop sign and wait for it to turn green

U WANNA SEE SUM CASH? WELL LEMME SEE SUM ASS

RT @KissMeEndlessly: puss ass crackas .

RT @TheyHATEShAHeED: Its crazy how i was jus pissed off,snappin…then i smoked..now im happy  ha

RT @stillblazingtho: If you don’t like #weed. #YoureNotMyType

RT @SheIs_UNdefined: & When Im On That SMOKE, Im Going Super-HAM!

Its a new year lets make some changes…… f*ck dat wea da weedman at??

RT @KimmyBtchhh: Some of y’all need a Blunt!

RT @stillblazingtho: R E T W E E T If you smoke #weed.

RT @PrettyMeStarr: White People’(s) Call Police , Black People’(s) Call There Cousin



And no, this doesn't make him a horrible thug, but my point is that it definitely paints a less angelic picture.
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futurepilot16
Posts: 1756
Joined: Sun Mar 11, 2007 7:20 am

RE: Zimmerman NOT Guilty

Sun Jul 14, 2013 1:12 pm

Quoting ImperialEagle (Reply 44):
Whatever-----Trayvon did not deserve to die and Zimmerman will now have to live with it. Two souls have died.

As I said as well...there was a sense of racial profiling in this case. I don't think if TM was white he would have been followed, that's what I think
"The brave don't live forever, but the cautious don't live at all."
 
Mir
Posts: 19093
Joined: Mon Jan 05, 2004 3:55 am

RE: Zimmerman NOT Guilty

Sun Jul 14, 2013 1:53 pm

Quoting KPDX (Reply 45):
And clearly, this guy wasn't the angel the media tried to portray him as. Here are some gems from Martin's Twitter account.

Absolutely irrelevant. The type of person he is makes him no more or less deserving of getting shot.

-Mir
7 billion, one nation, imagination...it's a beautiful day
 
flyingturtle
Posts: 4603
Joined: Mon Oct 31, 2011 1:39 pm

RE: Zimmerman NOT Guilty

Sun Jul 14, 2013 2:07 pm

Quoting flymia (Reply 6):
The system is made that we would rather have 10 guilty men out free than one innocent man in jail.

This is true, and the system also has to stay that way.    


...but, if had Zimmermann acted responsibly, neither he nor Martin would be dead now. He should have been convicted of criminal negligence at least. But because pulling a firearm during a crime results in a 10-year sentence in Florida, the jury didn't want to convict him. At last IMHO.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/10-20-Life


David

[Edited 2013-07-14 07:13:38]
Keeping calm is terrorism against those who want to live in fear.
 
fr8mech
Posts: 6620
Joined: Mon Sep 26, 2005 9:00 am

RE: Zimmerman NOT Guilty

Sun Jul 14, 2013 2:13 pm

Quoting luckyone (Reply 4):
Why riot when you can light up my Facebook feed with your opinion? In the past twenty minutes I've counted over thirty posts regarding the verdict.

Only the news type organzations on my FB have been talking. My FB friends (the ones that post political stuff) have been quiet.

Quoting futurepilot16 (Reply 12):
Wrong, there was a good case to be had against Zimmerman, Prosecutors screwed the pooch on this one.

I think a case could have been made for man-slaughter. In fact, had the prosecution set out to make a case for man-slaughter instead of 2nd murder, they may have gotten it.

Quoting futurepilot16 (Reply 16):
I agree, still doesn't change the fact that GZ put himself in the situation that night that ended so badly. I'm a gun owner, i'm pro gun and I still think how he put himself in that situation was wrong just saying...

Agreed. My biggest sticking point is that he got out of the car after calling the police. The call to the police indicated that he felt that Martin was some kind of a threat. Yet, he got out of his car. Granted, he did nothing illegal in getting out of his car, but he escalated the situation.

Here, the law says that "stand your ground" does not apply

"... when the defendant is wanton or reckless in bringing about a situation requiring the conduct described in subsection (1), the justification afforded by this section is unavailable in a prosecution for any offense for which wantonness or recklessness, as the case may be, suffices to establish culpability.

I haven't been able to find the actual text of the FL laws in question.

So, while I'm ok with the verdict, I can certainly see where the prosecution should have gone for man-slaughter right from the out-set. (assuming FL law reads like KY law).

Disclaimer: I have not seen one little bit of this trial nor have I read the other thread concerning the trial.

I believe "stand your ground" laws are necessary and right...but, I also believe that anyone taking defense under those laws need to be on solid footing.
When seconds count...the police are minutes away.
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