RussianJet
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Disgusting Behaviour From UAE

Thu Jul 18, 2013 5:31 pm

If there's any truth to this woman's side of the story, this judgement is beyond cruel.

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/arti...-raped-Dubai-jailed-16-months.html

A Norwegian woman who claims to have been raped has been sentenced to 16 months in jail for sex outside of marriage. It's not the first time we've heard of this, as mentioned in the article.

Is it really true that a rapist in the UAE can only be found guilty if he either confesses, or the crime is witnessed by four adult males?!  Wow!
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DeltaMD90
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RE: Disgusting Behaviour From UAE

Thu Jul 18, 2013 5:52 pm

"Under UAE law, rapists can only be convicted if either the perpetrator confesses or if four adult Muslim males witness the crime."

Wow
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MaverickM11
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RE: Disgusting Behaviour From UAE

Thu Jul 18, 2013 6:10 pm

Quoting DeltaMD90 (Reply 2):
"Under UAE law, rapists can only be convicted if either the perpetrator confesses or if four adult Muslim males witness the crime."

Who *wouldn't* want to vacation and move their business there?
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casinterest
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RE: Disgusting Behaviour From UAE

Thu Jul 18, 2013 6:30 pm

No real surprise.
It has happened before, it will happen again

http://freethinker.co.uk/2013/05/13/...an-woman-after-she-was-gang-raped/


//Edit to remove sarcasm.


There is a real problem with the application of sharia law . There is also a real problem with trying to alter Sharia to deal with obvious discrepancies in the Quran's treatment of women

[Edited 2013-07-18 11:36:19]
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RussianJet
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RE: Disgusting Behaviour From UAE

Thu Jul 18, 2013 6:37 pm

Quoting casinterest (Reply 3):
No real surprise.
It has happened before, it will happen again

The real surprise for me here is the claim about how only a confession or four adult male witnesses can lead to conviction. If true then it's not just wrong, it's utterly insane. Can anyone in the know confirm whether that's actually correct?
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casinterest
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RE: Disgusting Behaviour From UAE

Thu Jul 18, 2013 6:43 pm

Quoting RussianJet (Reply 4):
only a confession or four adult male witnesses can lead to

It's not the only way. The perpetrator can confess.  
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DeltaMD90
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RE: Disgusting Behaviour From UAE

Thu Jul 18, 2013 6:43 pm

Quoting RussianJet (Reply 4):
The real surprise for me here is the claim about how only a confession or four adult male witnesses can lead to conviction. If true then it's not just wrong, it's utterly insane. Can anyone in the know confirm whether that's actually correct?

For real. I mean think about it, three Muslim males saying a guy raped a girl is not even enough. 1000 non-Muslims could say the same thing and there wouldn't be enough proof. I think sometimes when a guy is accused of rape he's judged unfairly and it becomes a he-said-she-said but we'll believe her anyway, but that's for another thread. This is just absurd.

What do you think they were thinking when they came up with *4* Muslim males? I can see (though I disagree) with the male part or the Muslim part, but 4? WTF
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AR385
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RE: Disgusting Behaviour From UAE

Thu Jul 18, 2013 6:44 pm

Quoting MaverickM11 (Reply 2):
Who *wouldn't* want to vacation and move their business there?

Those that have a lot of money and forget that Dubai is not Las Vegas, plus too much Discovery Channel watching.

Quoting RussianJet (Reply 4):
The real surprise for me here is the claim about how only a confession or four adult male witnesses can lead to conviction. If true then it's not just wrong, it's utterly insane. Can anyone in the know confirm whether that's actually correct?

It´s actually correct. And I understand your outrage. But it´s nothing new. That´s the way it´s always been in those parts. Glitzy buildings, expensive hotels, insane indoors ski centers, and an airline that seems to be all mighty and all powerful aside, Dubai is still the UAE.

And as it been said. It has happened before, will happen again.

I wonder how the World Cup in Qatar will turn up with the huge amount of foreigners they are incapable right now of accommodating and with their equally archaic laws.

[Edited 2013-07-18 11:50:52]
 
slider
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RE: Disgusting Behaviour From UAE

Thu Jul 18, 2013 6:45 pm

How cosmopolitan of them.

Yes, such a wonderfully advanced locale.

It's a shame Norway doesn't have an extradition treaty, but if I were a Norwegian official, I'd seriously question the jurisdiction of this.

If I had faith in the UN, I'd expect them to step in, but they won't. What a bassackwards place. Ah, more tolerance and reason from the followers of the most peaceful religion on earth.
 
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pvjin
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RE: Disgusting Behaviour From UAE

Thu Jul 18, 2013 6:45 pm

Just saw this in the news, UAE indeed seems to be a real rapists paradise, I wonder if Saudi Arabia and others in the region are just as insane?
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RussianJet
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RE: Disgusting Behaviour From UAE

Thu Jul 18, 2013 6:47 pm

Quoting DeltaMD90 (Reply 6):
For real. I mean think about it, three Muslim males saying a guy raped a girl is not even enough. 1000 non-Muslims could say the same thing and there wouldn't be enough proof. I think sometimes when a guy is accused of rape he's judged unfairly and it becomes a he-said-she-said but we'll believe her anyway, but that's for another thread. This is just absurd.

And another thing - what a great way to get rid of an enemy. Four of you get together and say you saw him rape someone who is also in on it, et voila - off with his head!

Quoting casinterest (Reply 5):

Dude, I wrote that.
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blrsea
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RE: Disgusting Behaviour From UAE

Thu Jul 18, 2013 6:52 pm

One wonders - if four adult muslim men are witnessing a rape, wouldn't they do something to stop it? And if a man can abduct a woman and rape her in solitude, then he can basically any woman that he wants!

Unfortunately, these countries follow the sharia, and the law is in sharia so not much can be done to the rape victim. It is followed by many Islamic countries unfortunately.
 
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RE: Disgusting Behaviour From UAE

Thu Jul 18, 2013 6:54 pm

Quoting RussianJet (Thread starter):
If there's any truth to this woman's side of the story, this judgement is beyond cruel.

Jailing women for having sex outside of marriage is beyond cruel.

Jailing someone for reporting a rape? I would not hesitate to kill any judge, jury member, or police officer that attempted such a thing. It is simply indefensible, and incompatible with human rights.


And I am in no way blaming the victim, but this is why (in any city) you don't accept drinks from strangers, and why you should do basic research before visiting anywhere.

Quoting slider (Reply 8):

It's a shame Norway doesn't have an extradition treaty, but if I were a Norwegian official, I'd seriously question the jurisdiction of this.

There's no question of jurisdiction. She was in Dubai and under the jurisdiction of their laws.
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RussianJet
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RE: Disgusting Behaviour From UAE

Thu Jul 18, 2013 7:07 pm

Quoting Maverick623 (Reply 12):
And I am in no way blaming the victim, but this is why (in any city) you don't accept drinks from strangers, and why you should do basic research before visiting anywhere.

It's the sort of thing that guarantees no matter how many nice shopping centres they build, or how cheap their flights are, I will never set foot in that country, even in transit. You could be unlucky enough to be served a roll with poppy seeds on your flight and get some jail time that way too.
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casinterest
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RE: Disgusting Behaviour From UAE

Thu Jul 18, 2013 7:08 pm

Quoting RussianJet (Reply 10):
Dude, I wrote that

oops my bad
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SOBHI51
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RE: Disgusting Behaviour From UAE

Thu Jul 18, 2013 7:13 pm

Quoting RussianJet (Thread starter):

If there's any truth to this woman's side of the story, this judgement is beyond cruel.

Surprising but i agree with you 100%.

Quoting slider (Reply 8):
What a bassackwards place. Ah, more tolerance and reason from the followers of the most peaceful religion on earth.

Here you go with your usual comments you do not give up. it's becoming so boring.
This is there law, has nothing to do with religion.

Quoting Maverick623 (Reply 12):
I would not hesitate to kill any judge, jury member, or police officer that attempted such a thing. It is simply indefensible, and incompatible with human rights.

Agree again, but please don't do it in the UAE prisons there are not fun and if you commit murder you might loose your head.

Quoting blrsea (Reply 11):
Unfortunately, these countries follow the sharia, and the law is in sharia so not much can be done to the rape victim. It is followed by many Islamic countries unfortunately.

True in part but i could not find anything in Islam where you can base such a law concerning rape.
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RussianJet
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RE: Disgusting Behaviour From UAE

Thu Jul 18, 2013 7:19 pm

Quoting SOBHI51 (Reply 16):
Surprising but i agree with you 100%.

Doesn't surprise me at all.  
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casinterest
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RE: Disgusting Behaviour From UAE

Thu Jul 18, 2013 7:21 pm

Quoting SOBHI51 (Reply 16):
This is there law, has nothing to do with religion.

So Sharia is based on what?

Quoting SOBHI51 (Reply 16):
True in part but i could not find anything in Islam where you can base such a law concerning rape.

Apparently a bunch of Sharia judges have found it .

Bunch of examples out there . People are sentenced to death for adultery when the accuse rape and can't prove it. In the minds of the sharia, the women had sexual intercourse and cannot prove rape, so they must be guilty of a crime, and remember, the husband can't commit rape in Sharia.


http://www.ahl-alquran.com/English/show_article.php?main_id=6157
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L410Turbolet
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RE: Disgusting Behaviour From UAE

Thu Jul 18, 2013 7:44 pm

As much as I sympathize with her plight she partially brought that upon herself... the prison sentence part.
It must have been a horrible experience to be raped but she should have known she is in a country where her standing as a female is by default and by definition unequal to that of males. Just because there are Starbucks and Gucci in Dubai does not mean the laws are any less draconian.
She should have consulted her situation with the consulate/embassy before being silly and running to the first police station, because everyone since the Ancient Rome era knows that Ignorantia legis neminem excusat.

Quoting slider (Reply 8):
If I had faith in the UN, I'd expect them to step in, but they won't.

"We will be very angry with you and we will write you a letter telling you how angry we are..." http://youtu.be/UIPSvIz9NDs UN is good only for organizing yet another Durban Conference bitchfest.

Quoting blrsea (Reply 11):
It is followed by many Islamic countries unfortunately.

If only islamic... Wasn't there a judge in Germany not too long ago who took multiculturalism to another, even more bizarre level, who argued her(!!!) ruling in a civil case based on some twisted sharia principle because because parties involved were muslim?
 
RussianJet
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RE: Disgusting Behaviour From UAE

Thu Jul 18, 2013 7:50 pm

Quoting L410Turbolet (Reply 21):
she partially brought that upon herself...

NO. If she got raped then absolutely NONE of this situation is her fault.

Quoting L410Turbolet (Reply 21):
She should have consulted her situation with the consulate/embassy before being silly and running to the first police station, because everyone since the Ancient Rome era knows that Ignorantia legis neminem excusat.

Right, because when you've been the victim of a rape in a foreign land you're thinking just soooo perfectly.   
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casinterest
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RE: Disgusting Behaviour From UAE

Thu Jul 18, 2013 7:59 pm

Quoting RussianJet (Reply 22):
NO. If she got raped then absolutely NONE of this situation is her fault.

I am sure a good Sharia judge and Cleric would argue that she should have not been out unaccompanied by a male relative, and thus she is even more deserving of punishment
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AR385
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RE: Disgusting Behaviour From UAE

Fri Jul 19, 2013 12:58 am

Quoting slider (Reply 13):
This story outrages me. It should outrage EVERYONE.

You are right in being outraged. But I think that more outrageous is the publicity a place like this receives. With all the glitz and glamour, people forget that breaking certain "laws" or being involved in traumatic and tragic circumstances have much much dire consequences than in other places.

When I used to work with people with substance abuse problems I inevitably ended up once in a while with traces of said substances in my clothes, my hair, my shoes even my body.

At least twice a year I had to travel to conferences around the world. Once they sent me a a ticket for someplace but on the return I had to transit through Dubai. I said NO WAY, I´m not spending a good chunk of my life in a UAE jail because someone at the airport found a seed of pot stuck in the bottom of my shoe. They refused to change it, I did not go.

All these things need to get out. People need to stop patronizing and spending their money in these countries where they will send a rape victim to jail while at the same time let a drug addicted, child molester live there for years no problem.

I can do without the indoors ski track, or flying C on Emirates.
 
RussianJet
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RE: Disgusting Behaviour From UAE

Fri Jul 19, 2013 1:17 am

Quoting AR385 (Reply 21):
Once they sent me a a ticket for someplace but on the return I had to transit through Dubai. I said NO WAY, I´m not spending a good chunk of my life in a UAE jail because someone at the airport found a seed of pot stuck in the bottom of my shoe. They refused to change it, I did not go.

Good choice mate. I wouldn't go there for love nor money. If they don't like the look of your face on arrival they could 'decide' to 'find' probably any drug you can think of.
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DeltaMD90
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RE: Disgusting Behaviour From UAE

Fri Jul 19, 2013 1:31 am

Quoting RussianJet (Reply 19):
NO. If she got raped then absolutely NONE of this situation is her fault.

There is a difference between blaming someone and thinking they should have been more cautious. I think the whole "don't blame the victim" thing is a disservice. When girls go running at night and get raped, it's totally 0% their fault and they should be able to run at night. But it does no good to not warn against that. Same here, women should be able to go to the UAE and not get raped, but it a problem and we should warn females to be extra careful in the UAE even though they are not in the wrong

It's frustrating because we can't even have an honest debate or be able to warn girls. Whenever the rape subject comes up, I don't even bother offering advice like watch where you're drinks are, bring a friend, etc because people that do say that often get yelled at for "blaming the victim"

Again, I'm not even saying a tiny fraction of it was her fault
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RussianJet
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RE: Disgusting Behaviour From UAE

Fri Jul 19, 2013 1:53 am

Quoting DeltaMD90 (Reply 23):
There is a difference between blaming someone and thinking they should have been more cautious

There is - and that is the crucial point. There's no excuse for rape, but clearly taking precautions to avoid it as with any crime is desirable where practical. I just don't think that words like 'liable' or 'blame' apply in a crime like that though.

Quoting DeltaMD90 (Reply 23):
It's frustrating because we can't even have an honest debate or be able to warn girls. Whenever the rape subject comes up, I don't even bother offering advice like watch where you're drinks are, bring a friend, etc because people that do say that often get yelled at for "blaming the victim"

We absolutely can and indeed should have that debate, but please remember that the original comment from one poster that set me off on this particular tangent was "....she partially brought that upon herself". There is a big difference between educating about dangers and reducing risk, and suggesting some kind of fault on her part. Rest assured I would never be critical of raising awareness of risks and so on.

Quoting DeltaMD90 (Reply 23):
Again, I'm not even saying a tiny fraction of it was her fault

I do get your point, and I'm grateful for your clarification.

Quoting AR385 (Reply 21):
With all the glitz and glamour, people forget that breaking certain "laws" or being involved in traumatic and tragic circumstances have much much dire consequences than in other places.

Like I said before, the place is a wolf in sheep's clothing, and it doesn't surprise me that many people will go there believing the place to be totally fine.
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DeltaMD90
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RE: Disgusting Behaviour From UAE

Fri Jul 19, 2013 1:57 am

Quoting RussianJet (Reply 24):

I get what you are saying, sorry, a nerve of mine was hit  

When I read that same comment I perceived it differently so I think it all depends on one's perspective.
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jpetekyxmd80
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RE: Disgusting Behaviour From UAE

Fri Jul 19, 2013 2:44 am

Dubai is a perfect microcosm of the idiom 'lipstick on a pig'.

Too bad (not really) this didn't happen to an American. I know what i'd do if I were in power. Hey Emirates? You like landing here?

[Edited 2013-07-18 19:46:44]
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AyostoLeon
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RE: Disgusting Behaviour From UAE

Fri Jul 19, 2013 3:42 am

This is not only outrageous but also disgusting. To convict a person who reports an offence without any attempt to verify facts would be problematic enough without the onerous burden of proof. It makes it almost impossible to convict any rapist.

That said, before everyone rushes off to boycott Dubai, forget not that in the West the idea that if a woman is raped that "she asked for it" still is widespread among the less enlightened. The courts require more than proof that sex took place and an allegation. While rare, there have been convictions for making false allegations of rape in the UK.
http://www.southwalesargus.co.uk/new...woman_jailed_for_false_rape_claim/
http://www.oxfordmail.co.uk/news/104..._behind_bars_for_false_rape_claim/

What makes the reported cases in Dubai so much worse is that the law is stacked against the woman to begin with. Although there is a presumption of innocence of the alleged rapist, as there is in the West, it is horrific that there is assumption that the complainant is guilty of something simply because she had sex outside marriage or was unaccompanied by a male relation.
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DeltaMD90
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RE: Disgusting Behaviour From UAE

Fri Jul 19, 2013 3:55 am

Quoting AyostoLeon (Reply 27):
The courts require more than proof that sex took place and an allegation.

Well isn't it "innocent until proven guilty?" I guess that would make it harder to prove rapes but at the same time, our justice system requires it...

[Edited 2013-07-18 21:30:40]
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L410Turbolet
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RE: Disgusting Behaviour From UAE

Fri Jul 19, 2013 4:23 am

Quoting RussianJet (Reply 24):
but please remember that the original comment from one poster that set me off on this particular tangent was "....she partially brought that upon herself". There is a big difference between educating about dangers and reducing risk, and suggesting some kind of fault on her part.

I don't see why you get so emotional about what I wrote earlier. There is big difference between emotionally jumping to conclusions and reading properly what you are responding to. All I said was that getting raped was of course none of her fault. However, she did not end up in jail because she was raped but because she reported the case to police in a country where the laws are so bizarre that

a) her mere status as woman is a disatvantage,
b) rape will be perceived as illegal extramarital sex instead and even criminal charges against HER brought based upon that,
c) burden of proof for this specific case is so stacked up against her that it defies any conventional logic and notion of justice

Therefore I see nothing outlandish about my claim that the latter part certainly was her fault (for the sake of political correctness and you not jumping all over me again I emphasize "fault to a degree"). She certainly was in control of that situation and should have sought outside advice before proceeding further.
It adds insult to injury and is against every principle of justice people are usually brought up with... to be victim of a crime and would not be able to have the authorities deal with because it means ending up behind bars yourself. However, if it meant 16 months of UAE jail I would probably choose to swallow tears and grind my teeth instead.
 
AR385
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RE: Disgusting Behaviour From UAE

Fri Jul 19, 2013 4:28 am

Quoting DeltaMD90 (Reply 28):

Well isn't it "guilty until proven innocent?"

I suppose that is the basis of the common law system but it does not hold on the Napoleonic code based systems, which is what applies in most of the planet.

However, the point is moot since whatever system they have in the UAE "Sharia law" I suppose is plain barbarism and does not justify it being called a justice system.
 
AyostoLeon
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RE: Disgusting Behaviour From UAE

Fri Jul 19, 2013 4:29 am

@ DeltaMD90 - Well isn't it "guilty until proven innocent?"

Not as far as the alleged victim of rape is concerned. The alleged rapist - the accused - is entitled to the assumption of innocence. It is up to the prosecution to prove that rape took place and that the accused is guilty as charged. This places a great burden on a victim of crime and is one reason why sometimes it is impossible to convict as all the jury has to go on, apart from any forensic evidence or witnesses, is one person's word against another's. This may make it feel as if the alleged victim is on trial but at least it lacks the inherent presumptions underlying the reported case in Dubai.
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RE: Disgusting Behaviour From UAE

Fri Jul 19, 2013 4:32 am

Quoting AR385 (Reply 30):
Quoting AyostoLeon (Reply 31):

My bad, I wrote it backwards. I meant "innocent until proven guilty"

I was wondering where AyostoLeon was going with what he was saying, it sounded like he was implying that only someone's word should be enough to accuse someone of a crime
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AyostoLeon
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RE: Disgusting Behaviour From UAE

Fri Jul 19, 2013 5:01 am

@ DeltaMD90
Far from it , although there has been plenty of debate in the legal fraternity and among feminists who have suggested that the burden of proof should be shifted. The arguments have ranged from the extreme personal nature of the offence differentiates it from crimes like fraud or theft, the trial forces a person who may have been raped to relive the events and strengthens the trauma, to the sometimes impossibility to convict in the absence of witnesses.

My initial point was that in the West generally the experience of women who have been raped is not one of complete sympathy. They are subjected to invasive medical examinations and intense questioning in which their backgrounds, past history and relationships are examined, both by the police investigating and by solicitors and baristers before and during any trial.

Sometimes a victim can suffer other penalties. While not being a punishment for rape, a school girl was expelled from school after she was raped. She was on a school trip and went out at night during which time she was raped. When she reported the rape the French school expelled her for "breaking the curfew", a matter they seemingly regard as more serious than her well-being. Perhaps the school sees her as being promiscuous and bringing the school into disrepute. Who knows, but it doesn't suggest compassion.
http://m.thelocal.fr//20130716/schoo...ls-rape-victim-for-breaking-curfew

[Edited 2013-07-18 22:06:34]
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DeltaMD90
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RE: Disgusting Behaviour From UAE

Fri Jul 19, 2013 5:19 am

Quoting AyostoLeon (Reply 33):

Ah I see. I'm not sure I'd want to shift the burden of proof although I think we may go about the recovery process a bit better. Often it is very mechanical without any compassion or sympathy
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RE: Disgusting Behaviour From UAE

Fri Jul 19, 2013 5:31 am

Quoting SOBHI51 (Reply 15):
Here you go with your usual comments you do not give up. it's becoming so boring.
This is there law, has nothing to do with religion.

Yes it does. It even specifies the religion of the witnesses.

Quoting SOBHI51 (Reply 15):
True in part but i could not find anything in Islam where you can base such a law concerning rape.

They sure did, didn't they?

Look, you can be reasonable about Islam but right now you're totally missing it. Whether this is what Islam preaches is irrelevant. The fact is that this is the sort of behavior that Islam is used to justify, whether it actually justifies it or not. You seem disgusted by this. What are YOU going to do to stop it?
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RE: Disgusting Behaviour From UAE

Fri Jul 19, 2013 6:01 am

Quoting DocLightning (Reply 35):
What are YOU going to do to stop it?

This is in the UAE nothing to do with me really, but i can only express myself here. Unfortunately.
Also as you said i am trying to defend Islam as a religion, but not some so called judges came up with few hundred years ago. As i said there is nothing in the Koran or Hadith that support such rules.

[Edited 2013-07-18 23:02:02]
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RE: Disgusting Behaviour From UAE

Fri Jul 19, 2013 8:20 am

Quoting AyostoLeon (Reply 33):
there has been plenty of debate in the legal fraternity and among feminists who have suggested that the burden of proof should be shifted.

There are plenty of critics who argue that the standard of proof has been effectively reversed in colleges and universities because they are under so much pressure from the federal government to tackle any report seriously, at the risk of losing their eligibility for financial aid.
In addition, the government has told colleges and universities that cross-examination of the victims should be discouraged and that the lowest standard of proof, "more likely than not", needed to be applied, as opposed to "beyond a reasonable doubt," the criminal court standard.

Quoting AyostoLeon (Reply 33):
While not being a punishment for rape, a school girl was expelled from school after she was raped.

I think there is a bit of nuance missing from your narrative. The girl wasn't expelled because she reported being raped, in fact the school notified police as soon as she told them (two days later). She was expelled for breaking curfew, as was one of her fellow curfew-breaking classmates who did not report being raped.

On the one hand, the school couldn't reasonably be expected to punish one girl differently than the other for the same offense, especially in "égalité" France. On the other, expulsion for breaking curfew does seem harsh, it is almost as if the school is punishing them for putting themselves in a dangerous situation.
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DocLightning
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RE: Disgusting Behaviour From UAE

Fri Jul 19, 2013 5:29 pm

Quoting SOBHI51 (Reply 36):
Unfortunately.
Also as you said i am trying to defend Islam as a religion, but not some so called judges came up with few hundred years ago. As i said there is nothing in the Koran or Hadith that support such rules.

They claim there is. So who is the authority? You or them?

Fundamental problem with religion. The only "authority" seems stubbornly quiet.
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solnabo
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RE: Disgusting Behaviour From UAE

Fri Jul 19, 2013 6:09 pm

She was an infidel christian that didn´t wear the coalsack and was tipsy after she and her girlfriends (with a male escort, wich is law in UAE) visited a restaurang and he dragged her in the hotelroom and raped her..
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SOBHI51
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RE: Disgusting Behaviour From UAE

Fri Jul 19, 2013 6:30 pm

Quoting DocLightning (Reply 38):
So who is the authority?

Doc if you want to believe those people go ahead, but i am sure that there is no such laws in the Koran or hadith.
Those laws are more tribal laws dating hundred of years back even before Islam ( where they used to bury new born girls so they do not bring shame to there families) and usually applied by a tribe old person with minimal knowledge. You can stick anything on Sharia depending how some people understand it wrong or right.

Quoting DocLightning (Reply 38):
The only "authority" seems stubbornly quiet

In that are in the world the unwritten laws is you never contradict the elderly and whatever law existed since ever is very difficult to challenge.
The new generation i notice are starting to revolt against such customs, with the introduction of the net etc... they are much more open minded.
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DocLightning
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RE: Disgusting Behaviour From UAE

Fri Jul 19, 2013 9:08 pm

Quoting SOBHI51 (Reply 40):
Doc if you want to believe those people go ahead, but i am sure that there is no such laws in the Koran or hadith.

Not on my read, either (I've read Q'uran, not Hadith).

But what you are saying is precisely the underpinning of why separation of church and state is so important. These political leaders have declared themselves to be the authorities on God's law. What they interpret as God's law is inviolable and incontrovertable. So there is no room for public input.

Until the Middle East learns that religion and public policy must stay separate, these tragic abuses of rights will continue.
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SOBHI51
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RE: Disgusting Behaviour From UAE

Sat Jul 20, 2013 5:30 am

On a better news 3 British subjects caught with drugs on them (last July) and sentenced to 4 years in prison were released today by a special pardon due to the holy month of Ramadan.
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AY-MD11
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RE: Disgusting Behaviour From UAE

Sat Jul 20, 2013 9:18 am

Quoting L410Turbolet (Reply 18):
As much as I sympathize with her plight she partially brought that upon herself... the prison sentence part.
It must have been a horrible experience to be raped but she should have known she is in a country where her standing as a female is by default and by definition unequal to that of males. Just because there are Starbucks and Gucci in Dubai does not mean the laws are any less draconian.
She should have consulted her situation with the consulate/embassy before being silly and running to the first police station, because everyone since the Ancient Rome era knows that Ignorantia legis neminem excusat.

  

Lesson to learn here for others who plan to go to countries where laws like this exist. You cant change them laws so better to stay out from there. It's like having sex with prostitute without condom,you can get std or not,it's a gamble.
 
Stealthz
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RE: Disgusting Behaviour From UAE

Sat Jul 20, 2013 9:29 am

Quoting SOBHI51 (Reply 42):
On a better news 3 British subjects caught with drugs on them (last July) and sentenced to 4 years in prison were released today by a special pardon due to the holy month of Ramadan.

That's better news, you can carry, likely use, possibly traffic and get pardoned.. yet you can be attacked and raped by a throwback to the stone age and YOU are the guilty party??

It is high time the Middle East dragged itself out of the dark ages and joined the world.
Hiding behind.. it isn't written in the Quran is BS, the misogynist lackeys who administer the laws claim it is so stop trying to say it is not a problem with Islam.

As I have no intention of being party to such backward society I have advised Qantas that I will not be travelling to Europe with them..will have no effect and they won't care but I wonder how many such messages will make them care!
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qf002
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RE: Disgusting Behaviour From UAE

Sat Jul 20, 2013 10:15 am

This is a horrible thing for a young woman to be experiencing, absolutely, but it could have easily been avoided. She wasn't in any way responsible for the actions of the man who raped her, but she was responsible for assuming that she could safely do things the same way she does at home without any consequences.

The article also mentions charges for drinking alcohol. If she was at a bar, drinking and socialising with random people then she was asking for trouble. If she was drunk then she was begging for it.

People need to understand before they go somewhere like the UAE that it is different to home. Educate yourself, take the necessary precautions and you won't run into any problems. The same can be said of several African and Asian countries where things are done very differently to the western world.

I have been to Dubai several times and would have no qualms with returning again in future.
 
AyostoLeon
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RE: Disgusting Behaviour From UAE

Sat Jul 20, 2013 10:31 am

@ stealthz "It is high time the Middle East dragged itself out of the dark ages and joined the world."

Which world would that be? The one that approves of extra-judicial killings? The one that allows arbitrary arrest and imprisonment without knowing what you are charged with or on what evidence? The one that outsources torture to some of those same Middle East countries so that they can claim that their own hands are clean? The one that lies about "children overboard", using xenophobia to win an election?

While the presumption that a woman is inferior and is a sinner if she goes out with a male who is not a relative or has sex outside of marriage (including being raped) is abhorrent to most, we should not run away with the notion of automatic superiority of any country. All have their faults, the greatest of which may be pretending to respect human rights but ignoring them when it is expedient.
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Stealthz
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RE: Disgusting Behaviour From UAE

Sat Jul 20, 2013 10:45 am

Quoting AyostoLeon (Reply 46):
The one that lies about "children overboard", using xenophobia to win an election?

Take your thread hijacking to a new thread and I will be happy to debate what should be done about Illegal immigrants posing as refugees!!
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Stealthz
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RE: Disgusting Behaviour From UAE

Sat Jul 20, 2013 11:23 am

Quoting qf002 (Reply 45):
but she was responsible for assuming that she could safely do things the same way she does at home without any consequences

Those that are saying the women are at fault for reporting the crime are in many ways just as backward and living in a different world as the Dubai courts and rapists.

Earlier this year an Australian woman was raped by 3 colleagues at the hotel she worked at, went to hospital for help and was promptly turned over to the police and was jailed.

Get off your high horses and fix this crap!!
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RussianJet
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RE: Disgusting Behaviour From UAE

Sat Jul 20, 2013 2:09 pm

Quoting stealthz (Reply 48):
Those that are saying the women are at fault for reporting the crime are in many ways just as backward and living in a different world as the Dubai courts and rapists.

I think that's probably a bit harsh, as there is a big different between saying it's her fault and saying she might have prevented it, but I do think that when you get down to the nub of it there's just never an excuse for rape.
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