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JoePatroni707
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Too Late To Stop Obama Care?

Fri Aug 09, 2013 7:19 pm

Obama care is set to implement next year. Is there any way to stop it and keep health care private? This plan will destroy this country economically and somewhat socially. We have no need for a socialized health care program (not to mention it violates the constitution-forcing someone to buy it). There must be some way to stop it.
 
L-188
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RE: Too Late To Stop Obama Care?

Fri Aug 09, 2013 7:24 pm

Unfortunately we blew our best chance last fall with the election.
OBAMA-WORST PRESIDENT EVER....Even SKOORB would be better.
 
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casinterest
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RE: Too Late To Stop Obama Care?

Fri Aug 09, 2013 7:28 pm

Quoting JoePatroni707 (Thread starter):
We have no need for a socialized health care program (not to mention it violates the constitution-forcing someone to buy it).

                           HAHAHAHAHA   

Wait, you are serious?


I think there are parts of it I would like to change, but there is no way I want to go back to what we had before. What we had before was the folks paying the premiums were getting higher and higher bills due to the lack of folks that could afford private healthcare.


The current GOP plan of complete repeal is not thought out and not valid. in 4 years they have voted 40 + times for repeal. Not once have they put something in place as an alternative, and we definitely need an alternative.

Uninsurables, pre existing conditions, and paying for a service we all use or will use by death , is needed. No one should have to shoulder the outrageous hospital bills that are charged just due to misfortune at the wrong time in life.

The bill is not perfect, but in 4 years, the GOP has nothing better but to threaten the shutdown of Government?
Sorry but it the epitome of stupidity.
Older than I just was ,and younger than I will soo be.
 
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DocLightning
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RE: Too Late To Stop Obama Care?

Fri Aug 09, 2013 7:32 pm

Quoting JoePatroni707 (Thread starter):
Obama care is set to implement next year. Is there any way to stop it and keep health care private?

Healthcare will remain private. You should actually read facts and not what you are fed by the GOP.

Quoting JoePatroni707 (Thread starter):
This plan will destroy this country economically and somewhat socially.

No it won't. It's already in effect and no destruction has occurred that cannot be readily attributed to other things.

Quoting JoePatroni707 (Thread starter):
We have no need for a socialized health care program (not to mention it violates the constitution-forcing someone to buy it)

The Supreme Court disagrees with you, and on Constitutional questions they are the authority, not you.

Quoting JoePatroni707 (Thread starter):
There must be some way to stop it.

Yes, elect a completely GOP Congress and President. Of course, by that time the law will be in effect and Americans will have benefited from lower insurance rates, the end of pre-existing conditions restrictions, and expanded coverage. Insurers and healthcare providers (like me) have already expended a lot of time and resources into complying with and preparing for Obamacare, so its repeal would be at least as costly.

Those of us who actually know what's in the law and work in the industry are mostly happy with it. The only physicians I know of who hate it outright are GOP blowhards who think Obama is a Muslim Atheist Communist Fascist. Most of us have found our day-to-day practices blissfully unaffected.
-Doc Lightning-

"The sky calls to us. If we do not destroy ourselves, we will one day venture to the stars."
-Carl Sagan
 
JoePatroni707
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RE: Too Late To Stop Obama Care?

Fri Aug 09, 2013 7:40 pm

Quoting casinterest (Reply 2):
What we had before was the folks paying the premiums were getting higher and higher bills due to the lack of folks that could afford private healthcare.

You think its expensive now??? Just wait... Private premiums will sky rocket. Heath care quality will plummet. Look to the north, it takes up to 6 months just to get an appointment for a check up in Canada.

Once Obama care is implemented you will have government deciding your fate and health care.
 
jetblueguy22
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RE: Too Late To Stop Obama Care?

Fri Aug 09, 2013 7:42 pm

Quoting DocLightning (Reply 3):
Healthcare will remain private. You should actually read facts and not what you are fed by the GOP.

To be fair Doc I don't think anybody actually knows what to expect with this law besides health care providers such as yourself. It would be nice to see some PSAs or information on what to expect, because up to this point I just know it was a couple thousand pages long, the republicans hate it, and Nancy Pelosi didn't read it.


The healthcare law is set in stone and not going away. Whether that is a good or bad thing I don't know. I would have liked to know exactly what to expect prior to it's passing, but we didn't know what the Patriot Act entailed either. I guess we just have to wait and see what we will get.
Pat
Look at sweatpants guy. This is a 90 million dollar aircraft, not a Tallahassee strip club
 
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DocLightning
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RE: Too Late To Stop Obama Care?

Fri Aug 09, 2013 7:46 pm

Quoting JoePatroni707 (Reply 4):
You think its expensive now??? Just wait... Private premiums will sky rocket. Heath care quality will plummet. Look to the north, it takes up to 6 months just to get an appointment for a check up in Canada.

Initial quotes on state insurance exchanges have been low. They are only going "up" if you use very selective comparisons that basically amoutn to lying. Healthcare quality in the USA is already crappy. I'm hoping that some of the measures improve it.

And I'd like our Canadian members to chime in on your last statement. I think you'll find it's not true.

Quoting jetblueguy22 (Reply 5):
To be fair Doc I don't think anybody actually knows what to expect with this law besides health care providers such as yourself.

If you actually read legal summaries of the law and do the research, you can find out for yourself.
-Doc Lightning-

"The sky calls to us. If we do not destroy ourselves, we will one day venture to the stars."
-Carl Sagan
 
Kiwirob
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RE: Too Late To Stop Obama Care?

Fri Aug 09, 2013 7:56 pm

Quoting JoePatroni707 (Thread starter):
Obama care is set to implement next year. Is there any way to stop it and keep health care private?

Why would you want to?

Quoting casinterest (Reply 2):
pre existing conditions

This is a massive con.

I read an interesting story in the International Herald Tribune last week about hip replacements. A 60 something year old male needed a hip replacement, it wasn't covered by his insurance provider as a pre existing condition possibly caused by a sporting injury from his 20's, he had some friends in the one of the companies making replacement hips and got a deal to purchase a replacement hip for 13k, when he went to his local hospital to do the job they were going to 68,000 for the surgery, this didn't include physio. He was then advised by friends to check out Europe, in the end he had the surgery done in Belgium for 13k, the 13k also included his airfares. The new hip cost 350 USD, this is the same brand of hip he was going to buy on a special deal for 13k in the US.

From everything I haver read Americans get the short end of the stick when it comes to healthcare, I can't understand why anyone wouldn't want a better system.
 
RussianJet
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RE: Too Late To Stop Obama Care?

Fri Aug 09, 2013 7:56 pm

Quoting DocLightning (Reply 3):
Healthcare will remain private.

Thank God for someone who is both knowledgeable in the subject and rational in its interpretation. Anyone would think from some of the reactions that people had been instructed to report to the nearest collective farm with a sickle at the ready.....
✈ Every strike of the hammer is a blow against the enemy. ✈
 
Kiwirob
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RE: Too Late To Stop Obama Care?

Fri Aug 09, 2013 8:04 pm

Quoting JoePatroni707 (Reply 4):
Look to the north, it takes up to 6 months just to get an appointment for a check up in Canada.

I'd like to see proof of that.

From living in the NZ, UK and now Norway all countries with socialised medicine whenever I have needed an appointment with my GP I've got it same day.

My father was diagnosed with bowl cancer a few years ago, he had some blood in his stool on Sunday night, went to see his GP on Monday, was referred to a specialist which he saw on Thursday, was operated on the following week, that's socialised medicine in action. I wonder if it would be any quicker in the US?
 
einsteinboricua
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RE: Too Late To Stop Obama Care?

Fri Aug 09, 2013 8:07 pm

So even when the SCOTUS ruled that it is constitutional, people are still complaining...Welcome to 'Merica.

Quoting JoePatroni707 (Reply 4):
Private premiums will sky rocket. Heath care quality will plummet.
Quoting JoePatroni707 (Reply 4):
Once Obama care is implemented you will have government deciding your fate and health care.

Any sources to back that up?

Quoting L-188 (Reply 1):
Unfortunately we blew our best chance last fall with the election.

Even if the GOP had been voted in, you can bet that by now (assuming the law was repealed) the GOP would be facing a dismal approval rating and ever increasing sense that come 2014 dozens of seats will be returned to Democrats.
"You haven't seen a tree until you've seen its shadow from the sky."
 
skyservice_330
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RE: Too Late To Stop Obama Care?

Fri Aug 09, 2013 8:11 pm

Quoting JoePatroni707 (Reply 4):
Look to the north, it takes up to 6 months just to get an appointment for a check up in Canada.

Source? I live here, I use the publicly funded system - I have never waited 6 months for anything.

The Canadian system is not perfect - there is always room for improvement - most Canadians will tell you that. But the habit of some people south of the 49th to try and discredit and malign the Canadian system as a way to express their unhappiness about Obamacare is not needed. You can express your unhappiness about Obamacare without spreading half truths and false stats about the Canadian system.
 
JoePatroni707
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RE: Too Late To Stop Obama Care?

Fri Aug 09, 2013 8:12 pm

Quoting einsteinboricua (Reply 10):
Any sources to back that up?

It has been stated countless times on Fox news. Bottom line, we do not need social medical care. Our private system has been and will continue to work just fine. In fact if more of medicine were deregulated, and also laws passed to make it harder to sue for medical malpractice, costs will come down. Let the market decide how it will work.
 
AeroWesty
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RE: Too Late To Stop Obama Care?

Fri Aug 09, 2013 8:15 pm

Quoting JoePatroni707 (Reply 12):
Let the market decide how it will work.

There's always the choice to go without. One person I know is seriously considering getting only catastrophic insurance due to Obamacare allowing for a 50% penalty for smokers, then paying the fines. He thinks it might work out cheaper than premiums + deductible for full coverage.

[Edited 2013-08-09 13:19:56]
International Homo of Mystery
 
RussianJet
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RE: Too Late To Stop Obama Care?

Fri Aug 09, 2013 8:17 pm

Quoting skyservice_330 (Reply 11):

Source? I live here, I use the publicly funded system - I have never waited 6 months for anything.

Likewise here in the UK. If I want an appointment at the time of my choosing, I might wait a week. If it's urgent, I can turn up and wait in the morning and be guaranteed to be seen. Actually, I don't even have to stay and wait - I can come back at the estimated time and go home for a bit having registered my need.
✈ Every strike of the hammer is a blow against the enemy. ✈
 
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DocLightning
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RE: Too Late To Stop Obama Care?

Fri Aug 09, 2013 8:25 pm

Quoting RussianJet (Reply 8):
Thank God for someone who is both knowledgeable in the subject and rational in its interpretation. Anyone would think from some of the reactions that people had been instructed to report to the nearest collective farm with a sickle at the ready.....

There are people claiming that the Obamacare implantable microchips are here. No joke.

Quoting JoePatroni707 (Reply 12):
It has been stated countless times on Fox news

   Yes, that bastion of balanced and fair truth.

Quoting JoePatroni707 (Reply 12):
Bottom line, we do not need social medical care

And we will not have it. Nowhere in Obamacare is it socialized. Regulated differently, yes. Not socialized.

Quoting AeroWesty (Reply 13):
There's always the choice to go without. One person I know is seriously considering getting only catastrophic insurance due to Obamacare allowing for a 50% penalty for smokers, then paying the fines. He thinks it might work out cheaper than premiums + deductible for full coverage.

Until he gets a hangnail and gets shafted with a $3k bill for having it fixed.

Quoting JoePatroni707 (Reply 12):
Let the market decide how it will work.

It did that. Some hospitals are charging $70 for an alcohol pad that you can buy at the store.

Let's make it clear: healthcare isn't a free market. You choose when you buy a plane ticket; you don't choose when you need a doctor. You often CAN'T choose which hospital you wind up at in an emergency. There is no free market.
-Doc Lightning-

"The sky calls to us. If we do not destroy ourselves, we will one day venture to the stars."
-Carl Sagan
 
AeroWesty
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RE: Too Late To Stop Obama Care?

Fri Aug 09, 2013 8:28 pm

Quoting DocLightning (Reply 15):
Until he gets a hangnail and gets shafted with a $3k bill for having it fixed.

I asked about that. He said "problem solved, my doctor has a $99 basic office visit fee for the uninsured."
International Homo of Mystery
 
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Moose135
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RE: Too Late To Stop Obama Care?

Fri Aug 09, 2013 8:32 pm

Quoting JoePatroni707 (Reply 12):
It has been stated countless times on Fox news

Well, there you go.

Quoting JoePatroni707 (Reply 12):
Bottom line, we do not need social medical care.

The thing is, with Obamacare, most people will continue to have the same medical insurance and care that they have now. If your employer offers a plan you are happy with, no one is forcing you to switch to some "social medical care" system. If you have an individual plan, you can continue to use it.

The ACA gives insures benefits, such as coverage of pre-existing conditions, and sets up a program where those without insurance can purchase it.
KC-135 - Passing gas and taking names!
 
Mir
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RE: Too Late To Stop Obama Care?

Fri Aug 09, 2013 8:37 pm

Quoting JoePatroni707 (Reply 12):
Quoting einsteinboricua (Reply 10):
Any sources to back that up?

It has been stated countless times on Fox news.

And of course they have no bias at all and are fully aware of the facts of what they are talking about. I wonder if you heard that during one of Fox's many "non-news" shows.

Quoting JoePatroni707 (Reply 12):
Our private system has been and will continue to work just fine.

$78,000 for a hip replacement in the US vs. $13,600 in Belgium (and that includes the cost of the plane ticket to get to and from Belgium): http://www.nytimes.com/2013/08/04/he...mple-math.html?pagewanted=all&_r=0

No, it's not working just fine. It's not working at all. We pay far more money for not much more (if any) benefit in terms of care compared to other developed countries in the world. That's got to change.

-Mir
7 billion, one nation, imagination...it's a beautiful day
 
RussianJet
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RE: Too Late To Stop Obama Care?

Fri Aug 09, 2013 8:47 pm

Quoting DocLightning (Reply 15):
There are people claiming that the Obamacare implantable microchips are here. No joke.

I would really like to be able to disbelieve that, truly I would.....
✈ Every strike of the hammer is a blow against the enemy. ✈
 
Braniff747SP
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RE: Too Late To Stop Obama Care?

Fri Aug 09, 2013 8:50 pm

Quoting JoePatroni707 (Thread starter):
We have no need for a socialized health care program
Quoting JoePatroni707 (Thread starter):
(not to mention it violates the constitution-forcing someone to buy it).

Woah. Generally, a 'socialized health care program' does not necessarily force someone to buy anything.

Notwithstanding the fact that the Supreme Court upheld that particular feature of the ACA, therefore making it perfectly constitutional.

Quoting DocLightning (Reply 3):
Healthcare will remain private. You should actually read facts and not what you are fed by the GOP.


  

Quoting KiwiRob (Reply 9):
My father was diagnosed with bowl cancer a few years ago, he had some blood in his stool on Sunday night, went to see his GP on Monday, was referred to a specialist which he saw on Thursday, was operated on the following week, that's socialised medicine in action. I wonder if it would be any quicker in the US?

Not in my experience with our current system.

Quoting JoePatroni707 (Reply 12):
It has been stated countless times on Fox news. Bottom line, we do not need social medical care. Our private system has been and will continue to work just fine.

That's not an argument--you are merely restating what you said before.

Hell, you're not even describing what Fox has said--and I'm not even going to get into the Fox argument.
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einsteinboricua
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RE: Too Late To Stop Obama Care?

Fri Aug 09, 2013 9:00 pm

Quoting JoePatroni707 (Reply 12):
It has been stated countless times on Fox news.

Well that takes care of that. Nothing to see here.
"You haven't seen a tree until you've seen its shadow from the sky."
 
flymia
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RE: Too Late To Stop Obama Care?

Fri Aug 09, 2013 9:02 pm

Quoting DocLightning (Reply 3):
No it won't. It's already in effect and no destruction has occurred that cannot be readily attributed to other things.

It will hurt small/medium businesses. I personally know business owners who are ready to sell their business because of the cost Obama Care will bring them.

Quoting KiwiRob (Reply 7):
The new hip cost 350 USD, this is the same brand of hip he was going to buy on a special deal for 13k in the US.

From everything I haver read Americans get the short end of the stick when it comes to healthcare, I can't understand why anyone wouldn't want a better system.

This is true and this is the biggest problem I have with the American Healthcare system. We pay for everyone's freaking medicine, research etc.. Drug companies, healthcare companies need to make money but Americans should not be the ones footing such a large portion of the bill. Why there have been no DOJ investigations on this I don't know. Oh wait of course how could congress hurt the pockets of their biggest donors. Its disgusting what Washington lets healthcare companies, pharmaceutical companies etc.. do to Americans.

The thing is from what I know about Obamacare, this wont change.
"It was just four of us on the flight deck, trying to do our job" (Captain Al Haynes)
 
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DeltaMD90
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RE: Too Late To Stop Obama Care?

Fri Aug 09, 2013 9:21 pm

Quoting casinterest (Reply 2):
The bill is not perfect, but in 4 years, the GOP has nothing better but to threaten the shutdown of Government?

For real. Most Democrats I've talked to have minor problems with it, some have major problems with it. But what has the GOP proposed??? They've completely lost all the respect I had for them in the last few years, this whole repeal the ACA and replace it with "IDK we'll figure it out later" or vaguely, 'the free market,' tells me absolutely nothing. I'd rather ride forward with a somewhat flawed step forward and tweak it from there than go back to the status quo with no real change in sight.

GOP: lay out a well thought out, detailed plan, THEN vote to REPLACE the ACA with the superior program. They've had enough time to think of something, anything--they either have nothing or haven't really advertised it very well, their fault. And tort reform isn't a comprehensive alternative, and geez, you can have tort reform with or without the ACA

Quoting JoePatroni707 (Reply 4):
You think its expensive now??? Just wait... Private premiums will sky rocket. Heath care quality will plummet. Look to the north, it takes up to 6 months just to get an appointment for a check up in Canada.

I used to believe the propaganda on how much foriegn socialized healthcare sucks until I got on this website and EVERY poster except one Brit I've talked to with some kind of socialized healthcare loves it and wouldn't go back to the old/the US system. Any foreigners have any really bad experiences, the ones you hear from the far right in America?

Now no system is perfect, and our foreign posters will be quick to mention that

Quoting einsteinboricua (Reply 10):
So even when the SCOTUS ruled that it is constitutional, people are still complaining...Welcome to 'Merica.

Yeah, it's sad. I've seen both sides champion a decision and turn around and say that the court was bought and/or it's a liberal activist haven. Give me a break, at least pretend not to be super biased

Quoting skyservice_330 (Reply 11):
Source? I live here, I use the publicly funded system - I have never waited 6 months for anything.

There you go. I wonder what the OP has to say against, you know, a real Canadian. I don't care what he's heard on the news

Quoting JoePatroni707 (Reply 12):
In fact if more of medicine were deregulated, and also laws passed to make it harder to sue for medical malpractice, costs will come down. Let the market decide how it will work.

Why hasn't our lovely GOP come out with a plan yet? All I've heard are vague things like tort reform which, again, doesn't need the ACA repealed to get through Congress

So to sum up:

Quoting JoePatroni707 (Thread starter):
Obama care is set to implement next year. Is there any way to stop it and keep health care private?

No, there isn't. I'd say there is a way, the GOP coming up with a better alternative, but I'd bet $1000 they won't. They've had years and years and all they've done is fed us crap. It wouldn't take much to sway me personally but they have less than nothing and all it's doing is pissing off the population. Wonder if they'll ever learn. What they've done for years is obviously not working
Ironically I have never flown a Delta MD-90 :)
 
Kiwirob
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RE: Too Late To Stop Obama Care?

Fri Aug 09, 2013 9:31 pm

Quoting DocLightning (Reply 15):

Until he gets a hangnail and gets shafted with a $3k bill for having it fixed.

I had one of these, it cost 170 NOK (about 30 USD) to fix.

Quoting flymia (Reply 22):
We pay for everyone's freaking medicine, research etc.. Drug companies, healthcare companies need to make money but Americans should not be the ones footing such a large portion of the bill.

Who do you mean by everyone? I hope you don't mean everyone else in the world? Not all the worlds major drug companies are based in the US, there are boat load of them in Europe. A lot of the problem is how you purchase drugs, in many countries with socialised medicine products are bought in bulk on a national level rather than hospital level in the US, so the European/Canadian/Australian/NZ health authorities buying power is far greater than any individual hospital could wield in the US.
 
jpetekyxmd80
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RE: Too Late To Stop Obama Care?

Fri Aug 09, 2013 9:39 pm

This thread could be an introductory level college course on how to look uneducated on the internet.
The Best Care in the Air, 1984-2009
 
Braniff747SP
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RE: Too Late To Stop Obama Care?

Fri Aug 09, 2013 9:44 pm

Quoting KiwiRob (Reply 24):
I had one of these, it cost 170 NOK (about 30 USD) to fix.

I'm betting that this was not in the United States.

30 USD is what I pay when I go to see the doctor for my yearly check-up as a co-pay.
The 747 will always be the TRUE queen of the skies!
 
Kiwirob
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RE: Too Late To Stop Obama Care?

Fri Aug 09, 2013 9:57 pm

Quoting Mir (Reply 18):
$78,000 for a hip replacement in the US vs. $13,600 in Belgium (and that includes the cost of the plane ticket to get to and from Belgium):

Yup that's the one I was referring to, the rest of the article is pretty interesting as well.

Quoting Braniff747SP (Reply 26):

I'm betting that this was not in the United States.

No in Norway.

[Edited 2013-08-09 14:58:22]
 
romeobravo
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RE: Too Late To Stop Obama Care?

Fri Aug 09, 2013 11:17 pm

Quoting DocLightning (Reply 15):
Let's make it clear: healthcare isn't a free market. You choose when you buy a plane ticket; you don't choose when you need a doctor.

A free market is a market which lacks government intervention. Nothing to do with when people choose to use a service.

The US healthcare system does of course have enormous levels of intervention, that it is why it is such a mess.

What we are seeing with Obamacare is the phenomena that intervention begets intervention. Politicians think it is easy to fix the market with laws, but they normally fail to see or are not interested in seeing (because they won't be in office by then) the blowback that those laws bring in. Then when that blowback occurs and the situation ends up worse then before, they try and fix things with more laws.

Correct me if i'm wrong as information doesn't really filter over here in digestible format but will it now not possible for insurance companies to discriminate against pre-existing conditions?

Well it's not too hard to see the spectacular abortion of logic there and how that will inevitably increase costs.

As far as i can see the US might as well go fully single payer now, as the current system seems to be perfectly designed to maximise costs at every step of the way... no doubt because the politicians making the laws are being paid off by the companies that benefit.
 
wingman
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RE: Too Late To Stop Obama Care?

Fri Aug 09, 2013 11:29 pm

You guys forget an essential part of our history. The GOP did, in fact, come up with an alternative to Obamacare and it was implemented in the State of Massachusetts by their last Presidential candidate. Obamacare is, quite shockingly, based on a GOP healthcare idea.

The GOP...wicked retahdid!
 
CaliAtenza
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RE: Too Late To Stop Obama Care?

Sat Aug 10, 2013 12:19 am

Quoting JoePatroni707 (Reply 12):

It has been stated countless times on Fox news. Bottom line, we do not need social medical care. Our private system has been and will continue to work just fine. In fact if more of medicine were deregulated, and also laws passed to make it harder to sue for medical malpractice, costs will come down. Let the market decide how it will work.

Fox News??? really??? That's who you are quoting?
 
bristolflyer
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RE: Too Late To Stop Obama Care?

Sat Aug 10, 2013 12:48 am

Nationalized healthcare would be great for the US. Have you seen how many crippled people there are in the US because they can't afford healthcare? And how many people go bankrupt due to health care costs (it's the largest cause of bankruptcy). Those people who are against it are, for the most part, those who can easily afford decent health insurance and/or are employed in the business. Think about the bigger picture, people. You think it's someone else's problem if they can't afford healthcare? It's everyones problem.

Looking at the English model, if you're in England and you want something above and beyond the NHS then you can get private insurance (eg BUPA) - and from what I recall it's considerably cheaper then the equivalent in the US (please correct me if I'm wrong on this, it's been a while since I moved to the US).

BTW death panels don't exist...except on FOX News.
Fortune favours the brave
 
bristolflyer
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RE: Too Late To Stop Obama Care?

Sat Aug 10, 2013 12:50 am

Quoting CaliAtenza (Reply 30):
Fox News??? really??? That's who you are quoting?

FOX News is awesome - that's why they have all those videos on Youtube. Just do a search for 'Bill O'Reilly gets owned by...' and 'Hannity caught in blatant lie...'.

 
Fortune favours the brave
 
Braniff747SP
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RE: Too Late To Stop Obama Care?

Sat Aug 10, 2013 1:24 am

Quoting KiwiRob (Reply 27):

No in Norway.

As expected. The price you mentioned won't get you five seconds with a doctor in the States.
The 747 will always be the TRUE queen of the skies!
 
StarAC17
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RE: Too Late To Stop Obama Care?

Sat Aug 10, 2013 1:30 am

Quoting JoePatroni707 (Thread starter):
This plan will destroy this country economically and somewhat socially.

In the states (mostly blue) that want it to work premiums are falling as the exchanges are being implemented and people can choose in the competitive marketplace. This is what conservatives should want, a competitive marketplace.

Quoting JoePatroni707 (Thread starter):
We have no need for a socialized health care program (not to mention it violates the constitution-forcing someone to buy it). There must be some way to stop it.

In the old system if you got sick you very well could have lost everything and never be insurable again also as said the US supreme court ruled that the penalty for not complying with individual mandate falls under the governments right to tax.

Quoting JoePatroni707 (Reply 4):
You think its expensive now??? Just wait... Private premiums will sky rocket. Heath care quality will plummet.

In the states where exchanges are being rolled out, the premiums are dropping.

Quoting JoePatroni707 (Reply 4):
Look to the north, it takes up to 6 months just to get an appointment for a check up in Canada.

You must be a troll.
I'm another Canadian and if I needed to see a GP I could get an appointment within the next week

Quoting flymia (Reply 22):
It will hurt small/medium businesses. I personally know business owners who are ready to sell their business because of the cost Obama Care will bring them.

That is probably one of the reasons that there was 5 years between the time when the law was signed to implementation to give those businesses time to figure it out. He has even given them another year to figure it out.

Furthermore this begs the question, why the heck is healthcare tied to employment. Let citizens purchase the coverage out of their own pockets provided they get a certain minimum as required by the ACA.

[Edited 2013-08-09 19:42:06]
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WarRI1
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RE: Too Late To Stop Obama Care?

Sat Aug 10, 2013 1:40 am

Quoting skyservice_330 (Reply 11):
Source? I live here, I use the publicly funded system - I have never waited 6 months for anything.

As I have said before on here, twice as a visitor to Canada, someone in my group had to use that service, very well delivered, well satisfied and very well treated. No waiting four hours in an emergency room like here. I have been in Canada many times, I have never heard any complaints about the healthcare system. In fact it is always US people it seems who say how horrible it is.
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DocLightning
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RE: Too Late To Stop Obama Care?

Sat Aug 10, 2013 2:47 am

Quoting AeroWesty (Reply 16):
I asked about that. He said "problem solved, my doctor has a $99 basic office visit fee for the uninsured."

Does his hospital have that fee when he gets hit by a car?

Quoting flymia (Reply 22):
It will hurt small/medium businesses. I personally know business owners who are ready to sell their business because of the cost Obama Care will bring them.

I know a few, too. They ALL claim that Obamacare is a socialized program that their employees will have to sign up for. Except it isn't. In other words, they know nothing about the bill.

And in spite of several businesses threatening repeatedly to shut down, I've noticed they've all stayed open.
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Ken777
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RE: Too Late To Stop Obama Care?

Sat Aug 10, 2013 2:58 am

Quoting JoePatroni707 (Thread starter):
We have no need for a socialized health care program

We already have a huge level of government supported health care. Medicare and Medicaid is the most obvious, but there are Military Health programs, VA Health, BIA Health, etc.

And then there is the reality that your tax dollars go to pay for health care for every government employee. Federal, state, county, city, town, village, school employes. Folks like those who have taxpayer supported health care.

You've got a lot of socialized medicine - you just pay more of your tax dollars for it than taxpayers in other countries. But you probably don't mind as a good part of those tax dollars flow through private insurance companies (who add on their profit margins - increasing the need for more tax dollars).

Quoting JoePatroni707 (Reply 4):
Private premiums will sky rocket.

Actually ObamaCare limits premium distribution - 85% of premiums must go to policy holder care, leaving the insurance companies to 15% for admin and profits. That has resulted in the insurance companies sending refund checks - something not seen in a GOP administration.

There is also another important factor - when you add millions to the insurance rolls you take them off the charity rolls. That reduces cost shifting, which will allow for tighter control of premiums. That's a pretty good situation, especially for employers still paying out for nanny care.

Quoting JoePatroni707 (Reply 4):
Heath care quality will plummet.

Actually it can improve - and when you look at our outcome performance in comparison with other countries with advanced medical systems one an only anticipate improvements in our performance. Major factor in improving performance will be the ability of millions to go to a doctor's office or climic instead of not going - and getting a serious problem develop. The earlier you identify a medical problem the cheaper it is to treat, and the greater potential for a desired outcome.

Quoting JoePatroni707 (Reply 4):
Look to the north, it takes up to 6 months just to get an appointment for a check up in Canada.

         Try getting an appointment with a non-urgent specialist, like a dermatologist. I had the Urologist tell me to come back in February for my next appointment. Like a lot of other specialities he does have a long range appointment book, limiting the appointments left open for you.

Quoting JoePatroni707 (Reply 4):
Once Obama care is implemented you will have government deciding your fate and health care.

I haven't had any problems with Medicare - my doctors have been able to treat me based on their judgement. I can remember, however, doctors having to call 1-800-MOMMY-MAY-I to get approval to treat me when I had over priced private insurance. I also have to admit that my VA Doc also had the authority to order tests, like a CT Scan, without seeing approval from anyone.

Quoting KiwiRob (Reply 7):
From everything I haver read Americans get the short end of the stick when it comes to healthcare

We do when you look at the costs and outcomes that are below other countries.

Quoting KiwiRob (Reply 7):
I can't understand why anyone wouldn't want a better system.

It's about money, not health care. There are too many companies and people making very big dollars and they make political contributions to keep it that way.

Check out the outcomes i the US in comparison with other civilized countries. We're No 1 in Women's Breast Cancer. And that's about it. My Doc says we're 27th overall, but my favorite was our outcomes in the area of infant mortality. We're tied with Cuba at 22. Tied with Bloody Cuba. I can't understand why anyone wouldn't want a better system.

Quoting KiwiRob (Reply 9):
I wonder if it would be any quicker in the US?

Major problems, be it bleeding or broken bones, get care almost as fast as patients with more socialized medicine. We do have longer waits in the ER, many times increasing health risks to patients, but most conservatives don't mind that 4 to 5 hour unnecessary wait (or the unnecessary increases in pricing) as long as they can say they have private insurance. Especially if they have employer nanny care provided "free".

Quoting JoePatroni707 (Reply 12):
It has been stated countless times on Fox news.

Well, there you go - everyone should take those statements as the holy grail.  
Quoting JoePatroni707 (Reply 12):
Our private system has been and will continue to work just fine.

If you have a lot of money, or an employer who is still carrying the burden of employee nanny care. Employers are moving away from that albatross called nanny care expense so "working just fine" is going to be based on you having a lot of money. And you will still ahve a 4 to 5 hour wait at most hospital ERs in this country.

Quoting JoePatroni707 (Reply 12):
laws passed to make it harder to sue for medical malpractice, costs will come down.

Texas passed multiple laws making it almost impossible to sue for medical malpractice and health care costs haven't gone down at all. But profits have gone up.
 
einsteinboricua
Posts: 4886
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RE: Too Late To Stop Obama Care?

Sat Aug 10, 2013 3:12 am

Quoting wingman (Reply 29):
Obamacare is, quite shockingly, based on a GOP healthcare idea.

The GOP...wicked retahdid!

Obamacare: they were for it before they were against it.

Quoting StarAC17 (Reply 34):
Quoting JoePatroni707 (Reply 4):
Look to the north, it takes up to 6 months just to get an appointment for a check up in Canada.

You must be a troll.
I'm another Canadian and if I needed to see a GP I could get an appointment within the next week

He's not a troll. He's just repeating what Fox News says. A troll actually knows what he's talking about but chooses to act like he's not.
"You haven't seen a tree until you've seen its shadow from the sky."
 
photopilot
Posts: 3087
Joined: Mon Jul 15, 2002 11:16 am

RE: Too Late To Stop Obama Care?

Sat Aug 10, 2013 3:23 am

Quoting JoePatroni707 (Reply 4):
Look to the north, it takes up to 6 months just to get an appointment for a check up in Canada.

WOW, what a falsehood.

I can get a GP appointment the next day without any problems, except when my GP has his day's off of course. He's open Monday to Thursday and Saturday, so even then, it's only a one-day wait.

When I had a sudden medical event 16 years ago, I was taken to the hospital by a friend on a Thursday, tests on the Friday, talked to the surgeons on Saturday and had the operation the next Wednesday. Awesome medical care.

When I need a blood test, x-ray, etc, that's easy to get done on a walk-in basis at any number of clinics. Test results usually take a day or two then I just drop into my GP to get the results.

Yes, there are some issues with the Canadian system. Like any health system almost worldwide, costs are rising as our society ages. That's to be expected as the "boomer" generation ages. Likewise, in smaller rural areas, not every specialist is available. Doctors like many others want to work in major urban areas, not rural areas. But that situation is improving by the gov't offering incentives for doctors to relocate or set up a practice in more rural areas.

And best of all.... nobody is denied medical care, nobody gets left behind, nobody goes bankrupt trying to stay healthy or because their child gets sick.
 
AeroWesty
Posts: 19551
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RE: Too Late To Stop Obama Care?

Sat Aug 10, 2013 3:37 am

Quoting DocLightning (Reply 36):
Does his hospital have that fee when he gets hit by a car?

Honestly don't know what kind of catastrophic policy he's looking at, I wasn't all that interested in it. I would presume in the case of a car accident, that car insurance would cover up to their limits.
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ltbewr
Posts: 12495
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RE: Too Late To Stop Obama Care?

Sat Aug 10, 2013 3:45 am

I don't know yet if 'Obamacare'/ACA will mean - hopefully - much lower premiums on my individual health insurance. I sure can't afford to spend any more than I do now, and for sure if I were to lose my job. I guess it will take until after October 1st to go to the sure to crash websites, but I wish I had a better idea. That mystery is what is driving in part the fear of it going into effect, despite some improvement for millions from the parts of the ACA already in effect.

It may be too late to stop it, but it isn't too late to put in some fixes to hold down costs, especially for medicines, unnecessary procedures, better management of emergency rooms to deal with those with true emergencies from those who are poor and have a health problem yet treat them promptly. I would like to see a total end of almost all prescription drug advertising, especially on TV, where the government sets pricing margins to assure a reasonable rate of return for drug makers but cutting out excessive costs. Improvements in care safety to reduce infection and malpractice risks thus reducing overall costs.
 
Ken777
Posts: 9101
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RE: Too Late To Stop Obama Care?

Sat Aug 10, 2013 3:49 am

Quoting AeroWesty (Reply 40):
I would presume in the case of a car accident, that car insurance would cover up to their limits.

And a lot of times their "limits" are grossly inadequate. End up a Pare or Quad and you better hope the driver of the other car has really, really deep pockets - or you know a really, really good trial lawyer.
 
AeroWesty
Posts: 19551
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RE: Too Late To Stop Obama Care?

Sat Aug 10, 2013 3:55 am

Quoting Ken777 (Reply 42):
And a lot of times their "limits" are grossly inadequate.

Like I said, he's looking at catastrophic coverage, and don't know all of the details of the policy.
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jetblueguy22
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RE: Too Late To Stop Obama Care?

Sat Aug 10, 2013 4:19 am

Quoting StarAC17 (Reply 34):
In the states (mostly blue) that want it to work premiums are falling as the exchanges are being implemented and people can choose in the competitive marketplace. This is what conservatives should want, a competitive marketplace.

Boy I wish I lived in one of those blue states. I'm from a deep blue state (Connecticut) and premiums have continued to make huge jumps. Not saying it is directly related to Obamacare, but it hasn't helped my insurance.
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zckls04
Posts: 2658
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RE: Too Late To Stop Obama Care?

Sat Aug 10, 2013 4:32 am

Quoting flymia (Reply 22):
It will hurt small/medium businesses. I personally know business owners who are ready to sell their business because of the cost Obama Care will bring them.

Yeeees, well to be fair I know personally many people who were planning to leave the country if Obama got reelected and mysteriously they all seem to still be here.

I think we'll have to wait to see if there's any appreciable effect on business.

Quoting DeltaMD90 (Reply 23):
For real. Most Democrats I've talked to have minor problems with it, some have major problems with it. But what has the GOP proposed???

This is the crux of the entire debate. Healthcare in the US is broken. That's not an opinion, or hyperbole, it's a statistical truth. If the GOP comes up with a better idea I am all ears. But until they do I have to assume they simply don't have any ideas at all.

Republicans are always keen on real-world analogies, so here's a cooking one. You have been eating cold oatmeal every day for your entire life because that's all you know how to do. Then you find a recipe for a delicious Beef Brisket, but when you make it, you find you've added too much salt. Do you try cooking it again, this time using less salt in the rub, or do you go back to eating cold oatmeal for the rest of your life?

Not sure where that came from. I must be hungry.
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StarAC17
Posts: 3402
Joined: Thu Aug 07, 2003 11:54 am

RE: Too Late To Stop Obama Care?

Sat Aug 10, 2013 5:06 am

Quoting zckls04 (Reply 45):
If the GOP comes up with a better idea I am all ears.

They can't because it is a GOP idea!! It is really funny that the party of personal responsibility wants none of it when a democrat embraces the best thing about conservatives.

Quoting zckls04 (Reply 45):
Yeeees, well to be fair I know personally many people who were planning to leave the country if Obama got reelected and mysteriously they all seem to still be here.

We heard the same in 2004 when Bush got re-elected and no one left then. Anyone who wants to leave a country when your party doesn't win an election, all I say is good riddance as you are not helping that country progress and actually you are impeding it.
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seb146
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RE: Too Late To Stop Obama Care?

Sat Aug 10, 2013 5:58 am

Quoting JoePatroni707 (Reply 4):
Once Obama care is implemented you will have government deciding your fate and health care.

And will still cover you. As opposed to right now which is death panels. All those people who get cancer and their premium and co-pay skyrocket? Or they are dropped from their private health insurace? ACA is much worse, right? Being forced to take health care is just awful compared to paying tens of thousands of dollars out of pocket every month. /sarcasm
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DocLightning
Posts: 20143
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RE: Too Late To Stop Obama Care?

Sat Aug 10, 2013 6:38 am

Quoting StarAC17 (Reply 46):
We heard the same in 2004 when Bush got re-elected and no one left then. Anyone who wants to leave a country when your party doesn't win an election, all I say is good riddance as you are not helping that country progress and actually you are impeding it.

Depends. I was ready to start seeking employment abroad had there been a GOP victory with the last one. With my basic civil rights in the balance, it wasn't about politics. As it stands now, with that issue almost wrapped up, my plan is to stay unless I start getting signs that there is going to be something extreme like civil unrest. Although, I'm starting to get those vibes... maybe I'm just paranoid.

Quoting ltbewr (Reply 41):
It may be too late to stop it, but it isn't too late to put in some fixes to hold down costs, especially for medicines, unnecessary procedures, better management of emergency rooms to deal with those with true emergencies from those who are poor and have a health problem yet treat them promptly.

I am a big fan of ER copays. A huge fan. It should be enough to make the patient think twice, but not enough to deter a true emergency. For Medicaid patients, $10 for the ambulance and $10 for the ER seems reasonable. If it's someone's life on the line, they will find $20 to pay the bill. For private insurance patients, ER copays can already be $50-$250. Sucks.
-Doc Lightning-

"The sky calls to us. If we do not destroy ourselves, we will one day venture to the stars."
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AeroWesty
Posts: 19551
Joined: Sat Oct 30, 2004 7:37 am

RE: Too Late To Stop Obama Care?

Sat Aug 10, 2013 7:08 am

Quoting DocLightning (Reply 48):
unless I start getting signs that there is going to be something extreme like civil unrest. Although, I'm starting to get those vibes

Civil unrest over what, by whom, and where?

Earlier today you were fearing that Putin was turning Russia into a fascist dictatorship heading straight towards global thermonuclear war.
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