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GrahamHill
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F1 2013: Italian GP

Thu Sep 05, 2013 3:39 pm

The fastest track of the calendar is coming this weekend! It is also the last race in Europe this season. Again, Red Bull will be looking good and it will be hard to contest Vettel's chances to win. However, we should never underestimate Ferrari's performance on their home soil, and it will be interesting to see what Alonso can do.

Few facts I took from the official F1 website:

The Italian Grand Prix has been run 63 times previously, all but once at Monza. The only exception was the 1980 race which was held at Imola, a track more commonly associated with the San Marino Grand Prix.

Monza was one of seven tracks on the original world championship calendar in 1950. Three others are still on the calendar: Silverstone, Monaco and Spa-Francorchamps.

Michael Schumacher holds the record for the most Italian Grand Prix wins - five. The German is just one ahead of Nelson Piquet who won the race twice for Brabham and twice for Williams. Fernando Alonso and Sebastian Vettel have the best records of any current driver on Italian soil, having both won at Monza twice.

Home favourites Ferrari are the most successful team in Italian Grand Prix history. They have accumulated 18 wins, 45 other podiums and 19 poles on home soil. The Scuderia’s last Italian Grand Prix win came with Fernando Alonso in 2010.

More here: http://www.formula1.com/news/features/2013/9/14932.html


Autodromo di Monza

http://sponsoring.allianz.com/static/sites/default/media/formula1/Images_2013/circuit-graphics-e-2013/12_Italy_E_72DPI.jpg


Lap data

Lap length: 5.793 km
Race laps: 53
Race distance: 306.72 km
Pole position: Left-hand side of the track
Race Lap record: 1’21.046 (257.321 kph) by Rubens Barrichello, 2004
Fastest lap: 1’19.525 (262.242 kph) by Juan Pablo Montoya, 2004
Maximum speed: 337 kph
DRS zone/s (race): Start/finish straight and straight to Ascari
Distance from grid to turn one: 380 m.


Car performance

Full throttle: 77%
Longest flat-out section: 1520 m.
Downforce level: Low
Gear changes per lap: 46
Fuel use per lap: 2.6 kg
Time penalty per lap of fuel: 0.078 s.


Championship standings

1 - Sebastian Vettel 197
2 - Fernando Alonso 151
3 - Lewis Hamilton 139
4 - Kimi Räikkönen 134
5 - Mark Webber 115
6 - Nico Rosberg 96
7 - Felipe Massa 67
8 - Romain Grosjean 53
9 - Jenson Button 47
10 - Paul di Resta 36
11 - Adrian Sutil 25
12 - Sergio Perez 18
13 - Jean-Éric Vergne 13
14 - Daniel Ricciardo 12
15 - Nico Hülkenberg 7
16 - Pastor Maldonado 1
17 - Valtteri Bottas 0
18 - Esteban Gutiérrez 0
19 - Jules Bianchi 0
20 - Charles Pic 0
21 - Giedo van der Garde 0
22 - Max Chilton 0


1 - Red Bull / Renault 312
2 - Mercedes 235
3 - Ferrari 218
4 - Lotus / Renault 187
5 - McLaren / Mercedes 65
6 - Force India / Mercedes 61
7 - Toro Rosso / Ferrari 25
8 - Sauber / Ferrari 7
9 - Williams / Renault 1
10 - Marussia / Cosworth 0
11 - Caterham / Renault 0
"A learned fool is more foolish than an ignorant one" - Moliere
 
aerobalance
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RE: F1 2013: Italian GP

Thu Sep 05, 2013 5:38 pm

Vettel will not do well this year at Monza
















He will only win by 5 sec. instead of 15 sec.....
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RE: F1 2013: Italian GP

Fri Sep 06, 2013 7:18 am

Quoting aerobalance (Reply 1):
He will only win by 5 sec. instead of 15 sec.....

yep

it would be great if Fernando wins and Vettel dnf's but i doubt it.

So what about Vettel's new team mate? I don' t think he's stood out like a great potential so far, maybe just a bit better than his team mate, or am i wrong?
 
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RE: F1 2013: Italian GP

Fri Sep 06, 2013 10:07 am

It would be great if Vettel wins and Alonso DNFs ... but this being Monza, Ferrari always seem to have that extra something there even if they haven't had a great year.

Quoting mad99 (Reply 2):
So what about Vettel's new team mate? I don' t think he's stood out like a great potential so far, maybe just a bit better than his team mate, or am i wrong?

I think that's the idea ...
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RE: F1 2013: Italian GP

Fri Sep 06, 2013 11:19 am

Quoting CXB77L (Reply 3):
think that's the idea

to promote average talent?

maybe RB know a little more and feel he'll get results
 
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RE: F1 2013: Italian GP

Fri Sep 06, 2013 11:45 am

Quoting mad99 (Reply 4):
to promote average talent?

No, the idea is to have a second driver who clearly isn't fast enough to be a real threat to the number one, similar to what Ferrari are doing with employing Massa as Alonso's teammate. Massa is nowhere near as good as Alonso.
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RE: F1 2013: Italian GP

Fri Sep 06, 2013 12:13 pm

Quoting CXB77L (Reply 5):
No, the idea is to have a second driver who clearly isn't fast enough

so why did they keep webber on? At times he beat SV and caused problems. Not as good as Vettel but if they wanted a walk in the park they would have brought up one of the torro guys.

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RE: F1 2013: Italian GP

Fri Sep 06, 2013 12:17 pm

Quoting mad99 (Reply 6):
so why did they keep webber on? At times he beat SV and caused problems.

At times Massa beat Alonso too. Webber is nowhere near as good as Vettel. In the four seasons they have been together as teammates, Vettel has out-qualified, out-raced and out-scored Webber every single season.
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GrahamHill
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RE: F1 2013: Italian GP

Fri Sep 06, 2013 3:18 pm

Quoting mad99 (Reply 4):
to promote average talent?

I guess he shows average because his current car is average. Let's see what he can do in a Red Bull!

Quoting CXB77L (Reply 5):
No, the idea is to have a second driver who clearly isn't fast enough to be a real threat to the number one

Indeed. Ricciardo will be here as a clear #2 and help Red Bull getting the points for the WCC.

Quoting mad99 (Reply 6):
so why did they keep webber on? At times he beat SV and caused problems.

Because despite a couple of incidents, he was doing the job. And anyway, it's good to be shaken by his teammate from time to time. It helps staying focused  
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B747forever
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RE: F1 2013: Italian GP

Fri Sep 06, 2013 9:01 pm

Hey guys!

I am currently in Rome and will be here for the weekend and the Italian GP. Is there any place in Rome where I can join other Ferrari fans and watch the race?
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RE: F1 2013: Italian GP

Sat Sep 07, 2013 10:21 am

Quoting B747forever (Reply 9):
Is there any place in Rome where I can join other Ferrari fans and watch the race?

I guess any restaurant or bar with a big screen will do   after all, you are in Italy. Enjoy!

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RE: F1 2013: Italian GP

Sat Sep 07, 2013 1:09 pm

Ah well more of the same.

Ferrari tried to play the same game as last year by using Felipe´s draft to help Alonso, but as usual they somehow screwed it up and actually benefitted Massa lol.

1 Germany S Vettel Red Bull
2 Australia M Webber Red Bull
3 Germany N Hulkenberg Sauber
4 Brazil F Massa Fiat Punto
5 Spain F Alonso Fiat Punto
6 Germany N Rosberg Mercedes
7 Australia D Ricciardo Toro Rosso
8 Mexico S Perez McLaren
9 Great Britain J Button McLaren
10 France J Vergne Toro Rosso

Bring on the race now.

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RE: F1 2013: Italian GP

Sat Sep 07, 2013 1:14 pm

Fantastic drive by Hulkenberg. I've always rated him, and thought it was a damn shame Williams replaced him with Maldonado.

And as always, I'm very happy to see Vettel on pole  
Quoting MIAspotter (Reply 11):
4 Brazil F Massa Fiat Punto
5 Spain F Alonso Fiat Punto

 rotfl 

[Edited 2013-09-07 06:15:52]
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RE: F1 2013: Italian GP

Sun Sep 08, 2013 9:46 am

According to German media Kimi Räikkönen signed with Ferrari last Wednesday.
 
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RE: F1 2013: Italian GP

Sun Sep 08, 2013 10:28 am

A stretch but since it happened before .. maybe Ferrari will buy out Alonso's contract ? Alonso seems to be getting more frustrated and his radio comment after the apparent botched slip streaming plan with Massa in Q3 will not have been appreciated either, especially since it's their home race .. talk about timing  

I wouldn't mind seeing Räikkönen & Hulkenberg at Ferrari next year.

While i always enjoy the Italian GP i'm afraid the winner is going to be obvious, c'est la vie
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RE: F1 2013: Italian GP

Mon Sep 09, 2013 11:10 am

Quoting 9MMPQ (Reply 14):
A stretch but since it happened before .. maybe Ferrari will buy out Alonso's contract ? Alonso seems to be getting more frustrated and his radio comment after the apparent botched slip streaming plan with Massa in Q3 will not have been appreciated either, especially since it's their home race .. talk about timing

I don´t think Ferrari will be that dumb to kick Alonso out, obviously if they sign Kimi is to replace Massa, (why has it taken so long?) Alonso and Kimi would be a nice pairing and I hope Ferrari do let them fight it out ( I know Kimi won´t play second fiddle to Alonso and he will go out and do his own race )

Quoting 9MMPQ (Reply 14):
While i always enjoy the Italian GP i'm afraid the winner is going to be obvious, c'est la vie

And it was... another Vettel yawnfest, I know of somebody here who won´t like it but I did loved how Vettel got booed by the Tifosi and how they chanted ALOONSO   

Mind you, it is the same Tifosi who booed and cheered when Alonso blew his engine during the 2006 GP ( I was there )

Let´s see what Asia throws at them in the upcoming GP´s

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RE: F1 2013: Italian GP

Mon Sep 09, 2013 1:40 pm



Quoting MIAspotter (Reply 15):
Alonso and Kimi would be a nice pairing and I hope Ferrari do let them fight it out

Ferrari don't exactly have a history of letting their team mates fight it out on track. They always tend to favour one driver over another, whether it be Schumacher, Raikkonen or Alonso. Bringing Raikkonen back to Ferrari would be great, but only if he's allowed to challenge, and beat Alonso without any team interference, regardless of their respective standings in the championship.

Quoting MIAspotter (Reply 15):
I know of somebody here who won´t like it but I did loved how Vettel got booed by the Tifosi and how they chanted ALOONSO

Absolutely disgraceful behaviour from the Tifosi as always. But that's to be expected at Monza.

[Edited 2013-09-09 06:42:55]
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RE: F1 2013: Italian GP

Mon Sep 09, 2013 2:55 pm

Well if the tifosis are angry at Ferrari it's certainly not because of Alonso who in reality saves them from a lot of embarrassment, without him forget about podiums. So sacking him would be utterly dumb.

I watched the GP on sky and when GRO did a good overtake on another driver (can't remember the one since he did a number of them) they mentioned that no carbon flew... When Alonso clipped Webber's front wing it was a brilliant move...
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RE: F1 2013: Italian GP

Mon Sep 09, 2013 3:12 pm

Like in Spa, this GP has been quite boring. A few overtakes to entertain us, but no one is able to compete with Vettel at the moment. Having no particular driver to support in the run for the championship, I'm struggling to find an interest of seeing one man leading from first lap to last lap without competition.

Also, there might be 7 GPs left, but I don't know how Vettel can lose this championship.

Quoting 9MMPQ (Reply 14):
Hulkenberg at Ferrari next year.

Why Hulkenberg in particular?

Quoting MIAspotter (Reply 15):
I don´t think Ferrari will be that dumb to kick Alonso out

Absolutely. Unless there is some stuff we don't know that is happening in private?

Quoting MIAspotter (Reply 15):
why has it taken so long?

One wonders! He's been the shadow of himself since a few years now.

Quoting MIAspotter (Reply 15):
Alonso and Kimi would be a nice pairing and I hope Ferrari do let them fight it out

If Kimi goes to Ferrari, Ferrari will have to accept that there will be no #1 and no #2. But then, they will have to expect that what happened to McLaren in 2008 can happen to them too.

Quoting CXB77L (Reply 16):
Absolutely disgraceful behaviour from the Tifosi as always. But that's to be expected at Monza.


Disgraceful is a bit of a strong word. It does not shock me, personally. They are passionate people and act with their heart. I understand that. But maybe that's my football background which has this effect on me. Booing your rival is actually the thing to do   
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RE: F1 2013: Italian GP

Mon Sep 09, 2013 4:02 pm

Quoting CXB77L (Reply 16):
Absolutely disgraceful behaviour from the Tifosi as always. But that's to be expected at Monza.

Why disgraceful? they are in their home turf and will cheer for Ferrari not RBR or Vettel... same when Madrid plays in Barcelona or vice versa, or Liverpool with ManUtd.

And hey, you are from Australia! don´t tell me Ford People have tea and scones with Holden People... 

Football, Rugby, Cricket... no big rivalries and brawls there?

Quoting GrahamHill (Reply 18):
Absolutely. Unless there is some stuff we don't know that is happening in private?

Even then... not a reason to kick him out.

Quoting GrahamHill (Reply 18):
One wonders! He's been the shadow of himself since a few years now.

Exactly, since loosing the title in Brazil in 2008 and the accident.

Quoting GrahamHill (Reply 18):
If Kimi goes to Ferrari, Ferrari will have to accept that there will be no #1 and no #2. But then, they will have to expect that what happened to McLaren in 2008 can happen to them too.

Yep, but I guess what Ferrari now wants is 2 drivers to bring the points and not to depend just on Alonso.

Quoting GrahamHill (Reply 18):
Disgraceful is a bit of a strong word. It does not shock me, personally. They are passionate people and act with their heart. I understand that. But maybe that's my football background which has this effect on me. Booing your rival is actually the thing to do

Exactly.

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RE: F1 2013: Italian GP

Mon Sep 09, 2013 5:06 pm

Quoting MIAspotter (Reply 15):
I don´t think Ferrari will be that dumb to kick Alonso out, obviously if they sign Kimi is to replace Massa

It's almost funny how similar this is to the lead-up of Alonso coming to Ferrari. Massa was a candidate for replacement and next thing it was Räikkönen who was bought out. Either way, things are interesting 
Quoting GrahamHill (Reply 18):
Why Hulkenberg in particular?

There's a link with Ferrari through his current team Sauber and given some of the things he has shown with lesser cars i have a feeling he would be a step up from Massa.

This is off course assuming Ferrari's going for only one driver of the Alonso / Räikkönen caliber. Assuming the same who would you see as a possible replacement for Massa ?
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RE: F1 2013: Italian GP

Mon Sep 09, 2013 6:33 pm

Quoting GrahamHill (Reply 18):
what happened to McLaren in 2008 can happen to them too

I'm fixing my own mistake: I meant 2007, when Kimi won the title partly because Alonso and Hamilton were too busy fighting each other at McLaren.

Quoting MIAspotter (Reply 19):
Even then... not a reason to kick him out.

Yes, but sometimes there's just more than driving well. If the work atmosphere is no longer good, sometimes it's in the best interest of both parties to part ways. I'm just saying this as an example, since I have obviously no clue of what is going on inside Ferrari at the moment.

Quoting MIAspotter (Reply 19):
Yep, but I guess what Ferrari now wants is 2 drivers to bring the points and not to depend just on Alonso.

Indeed. So I would see someone better than Massa, yet not competitive enough to fight his own teammate.

Quoting 9MMPQ (Reply 20):
Assuming the same who would you see as a possible replacement for Massa ?

This is more a wild dream than a rational reason, but as a Frenchman, I'd like to see Bianchi. First he belongs to the Ferrari Driver Academy and then he outperformed his teammate all along the season. Yet, I know he lacks experience and I really don't know how he compares with Hulkenberg...
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RE: F1 2013: Italian GP

Mon Sep 09, 2013 11:03 pm

After the race I like Hamilton whinging about the lack of radio comms - "its like driving blind....you don't when to push...you've got to manage it yourself".

You mean like they used to do every time they raced 25 years ago.
 
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RE: F1 2013: Italian GP

Tue Sep 10, 2013 6:22 am

Quoting VC-10 (Reply 22):
You mean like they used to do every time they raced 25 years ago.

That's advancing technology for you. But with the wear on today's tires i can imagine where he's coming from, there were a lot of radio calls on tire management and if you're suddenly cut off it get's interesting.

Quoting 9MMPQ (Reply 20):
This is more a wild dream than a rational reason, but as a Frenchman, I'd like to see Bianchi.

Assuming it's Alonso & Räikkönen at Ferrari next year and Hulkenberg then moving to Lotus maybe Ferrari can get him into the Sauber as the next step forward ? Sauber & Ferrari are still working on their engine deal for next year.
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RE: F1 2013: Italian GP

Tue Sep 10, 2013 6:39 am

Quoting CXB77L (Reply 16):
Ferrari don't exactly have a history of letting their team mates fight it out on track

It would only work if Kimi is number 2 and i can't imagine he's interested in that. If he beats Fernando the tears will flow and Santander won't like it.

Anyway, they'll make an announcement soon.
 
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RE: F1 2013: Italian GP

Tue Sep 10, 2013 6:40 am

Quoting MIAspotter (Reply 15):
Mind you, it is the same Tifosi who booed and cheered when Alonso blew his engine during the 2006 GP ( I was there )

It's also the same Tifosi who cheered for another German that dominated while driving a red car.
 
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RE: F1 2013: Italian GP

Tue Sep 10, 2013 7:08 am

Quoting Bill142 (Reply 25):
It's also the same Tifosi who cheered for another German that dominated while driving a red car.

That´s what I tried to say, as long as you wear red and drive the red cars, you are a friend. otherwise... don´t expect a warm welcome in Monza 

In a few years (assuming) Vettel ever gets to drive for Ferrari you will see the same tifosi cheering his name.

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RE: F1 2013: Italian GP

Tue Sep 10, 2013 12:29 pm

Quoting MIAspotter (Reply 19):
And hey, you are from Australia! don´t tell me Ford People have tea and scones with Holden People...

Football, Rugby, Cricket... no big rivalries and brawls there?

Very true, there are big rivalries in sport. But I'd like to think that F1 is more "gentlemanly" and less prone to football hooliganism. I guess that's too much to ask these days, though ...

Quoting mad99 (Reply 24):
It would only work if Kimi is number 2 and i can't imagine he's interested in that. If he beats Fernando the tears will flow and Santander won't like it.

Then I hope Raikkonen does go to Ferrari as an "equal number one", because Alonso won't like being beaten.
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RE: F1 2013: Italian GP

Wed Sep 11, 2013 5:36 am

So Massa is out!
http://www.autosport.com/news/report.php/id/109804


Loads of press on Kimi joining ...
 
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RE: F1 2013: Italian GP

Wed Sep 11, 2013 12:21 pm

http://www.f1fanatic.co.uk/2013/09/11/kimi-raikkonen-ferrari-f1-2014/

Kimi goes to Ferrari!

Two year contract.

It'll be interesting to see what happens if he beats Fernando  
 
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RE: F1 2013: Italian GP

Wed Sep 11, 2013 1:17 pm

Quoting mad99 (Reply 29):
It'll be interesting to see what happens if he beats Fernando

Don't you mean "when" he beats Alonso   It would be interesting to see Alonso throw his toys out of his pram when Raikkonen beats him  

It's great news, finally Ferrari gets a proper driver to take the second seat. Hopefully they'll allow them to race, regardless of championship position (I can't see Raikkonen signing on to be number two). I don't like Ferrari (or Alonso, for that matter), but I do like Raikkonen, so I'll at least be cheering for one side of that garage.
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RE: F1 2013: Italian GP

Wed Sep 11, 2013 1:20 pm

Quoting mad99 (Reply 29):
It'll be interesting to see what happens if he beats Fernando
Quoting CXB77L (Reply 30):
Don't you mean "when" he beats Alonso

And what if Alonso leaves?  
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RE: F1 2013: Italian GP

Wed Sep 11, 2013 1:38 pm

Quoting CXB77L (Reply 30):
Don't you mean "when" he beats Alonso   It would be interesting to see Alonso throw his toys out of his pram when Raikkonen beats him

Let´s wait and see, maybe, just maybe Alonso has grown up since McLaren and work together to make a strong team with Raikkonen

Quoting GrahamHill (Reply 31):
And what if Alonso leaves?

Doubt it, he is still quite high regarded in Ferrari and I insist, they know who he is and won´t let him go easily unless Alonso really really wants it.

In another thing, I was a bit curious as to what was Mr Briatore doing on the weekend, he spent most of his time in the Ferrari paddock... any speculations? maybe a substitue to Mr Domenicalli?

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RE: F1 2013: Italian GP

Wed Sep 11, 2013 2:30 pm

Quoting MIAspotter (Reply 32):
In another thing, I was a bit curious as to what was Mr Briatore doing on the weekend, he spent most of his time in the Ferrari paddock... any speculations? maybe a substitue to Mr Domenicalli?

My 2 cents, but if Montezemolo wants to replace Domenicalli, he would probably see the candidates elsewhere than in the paddock of Monza.

Maybe he was just a guest of Ferrari?
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RE: F1 2013: Italian GP

Wed Sep 11, 2013 3:40 pm

Quoting CXB77L (Reply 30):
Don't you mean "when" he beats Alonso

We shall see.

Should be fun to watch. Kimi's not qualified too good this year so maybe Fernando will have an upper hand at the start of next year and i'd say he's probably better liked at Ferrari not that it will count for much.

Good stuff!
 
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RE: F1 2013: Italian GP

Thu Sep 12, 2013 10:39 am

Kimi at Ferrari... I could rejoin the "tifosi" yet!!
Wonder how long before "Ferdie" Alonso starts throwing his toys out of the pram??
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RE: F1 2013: Italian GP

Thu Sep 12, 2013 10:39 pm

I didn't see this coming, since Raikko was at Ferrari previously.

I like him very much, and Alonso too, not Ferrari though (even if most of my family is Italian, or maybe because of it :d), but I think Alonso is better, and more importantly more committed, he never gives up, unlike Raikko.
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RE: F1 2013: Italian GP

Fri Sep 13, 2013 12:17 am

Quoting VC-10 (Reply 22):
After the race I like Hamilton whinging about the lack of radio comms - "its like driving blind....you don't when to push...you've got to manage it yourself".

You mean like they used to do every time they raced 25 years ago.

In his defense, 25 years ago all the drivers had no radios, not just one!
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RE: F1 2013: Italian GP

Fri Sep 13, 2013 2:35 am

Quoting Aesma (Reply 36):
but I think Alonso is better, and more importantly more committed, he never gives up, unlike Raikko.

I disagree with that. I think Raikkonen became disenchanted with F1 the first time and wanted to try rallying because it was "more fun", but now that he's had his "fun", he decided to come back to F1 after all. Besides, I also think Ferrari have learnt how to handle Raikkonen - give him free rein, and he will perform. Keep him on a tight leash, tell him to be number 2 to Alonso, and he won't. It would appear that the trick to getting Raikkonen to perform at his best is to let him do what he does best on track and leave him well alone off track.

Raikkonen at his best is a sight to behold. I rate Raikkonen very highly - he, along with Alonso, Hamilton, and Vettel, are the four best drivers in F1 today, in my view. If he's allowed to, he will give Alonso a run for his money. I'm betting that if Raikkonen comes out on top next year, Alonso will start to get a little flustered.
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Aesma
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RE: F1 2013: Italian GP

Fri Sep 13, 2013 7:48 pm

I was not talking about his WRC stint, but rather his attitude when the car doesn't perform, it seems to me he's not into development, unlike his predecessor MSC or Alonso. Also Alonso and MSC could always gain places compared to the performance of their car, while Raikko "only" extracts the best of his machine, not more.
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zckls04
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RE: F1 2013: Italian GP

Fri Sep 13, 2013 8:46 pm

Quoting Aesma (Reply 39):
while Raikko "only" extracts the best of his machine, not more.

Erm, STRONGLY disagree with that. Kimi at his best IMO is faster than Alonso at his best. However Alonso is much more consistent. As an all-rounder Alonso is the best on the grid, no question, but when it comes specifically to speed Kimi is capable of beating Alonso if he is in the mood.

Of course, we will see next year. I am sooooo excited!
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ltbewr
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RE: F1 2013: Italian GP

Sat Sep 14, 2013 2:20 am

One thing I don't like with F-1 is the 'team orders'.
We just had a huge blow up in NASCAR/Spring Cup (the top tier, like F1 is to F2) as to placements in the 'chase' a form of elimination into 12 (or this year 13) 'finalists' to compete for the title. A team (MWR with Toyota based cars) boss had a lower level driver fake a spin to bring out a caution and help his teammate get into the 'chase'. The NASCAR leaders checked the communications between the team bosses and the drivers, determined there were 'orders' and that team lost a driver that was to be in the chase, all 3 of that teams' drivers had points docked (50), one driver got bounced, the team has a $300K fine, key team bosses are under probation. Since there was another 'team orders' situation or where 2 teams of the same brand (Ford) working to help another driver get into the chase over another, NASCAR added a '13th' spot for the Chase for someone who just missed by a point due to the 'team orders'.

As to the F1 Italian GP, I do hope for a good, safe, competitive race, with some passing and Vettel NOT winning again.
 
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Aesma
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RE: F1 2013: Italian GP

Sat Sep 14, 2013 2:39 am

The race already happened and Vettel won, sorry !

As for team orders, they were banned after a Ferrari incident, and then allowed again. But not the kind of orders you describe, which is cheating. You can read about the Crashgate, when Nelson Piquet Jr crashed on purpose, helping Alonso, his teammate at Renault, win a race while his car was not very fast. Piquet was a poor driver, but tried to blackmail the team into keeping him the following season, when they didn't he spilled his guts and famed team director Flavio Briatore and technical director Pat Symonds were banned from F1.

In F1 team orders are mainly about the 2nd driver letting the 1st pass if he happens to be in front, instead of fighting for his place. There was no point in banning the orders since it just meant they were given before the race, face to face. On the other hand fans hate such orders so they still mostly do it on the down low, sometimes they even fake a struggle.
New Technology is the name we give to stuff that doesn't work yet. Douglas Adams
 
bill142
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RE: F1 2013: Italian GP

Sat Sep 14, 2013 5:35 am

Quoting ltbewr (Reply 41):
We just had a huge blow up in NASCAR/Spring Cup (the top tier, like F1 is to F2) as to placements in the 'chase' a form of elimination into 12 (or this year 13) 'finalists' to compete for the title. A team (MWR with Toyota based cars) boss had a lower level driver fake a spin to bring out a caution and help his teammate get into the 'chase'. The NASCAR leaders checked the communications between the team bosses and the drivers, determined there were 'orders' and that team lost a driver that was to be in the chase, all 3 of that teams' drivers had points docked (50), one driver got bounced, the team has a $300K fine, key team bosses are under probation. Since there was another 'team orders' situation or where 2 teams of the same brand (Ford) working to help another driver get into the chase over another, NASCAR added a '13th' spot for the Chase for someone who just missed by a point due to the 'team orders'.

That's not so much team orders a race fixing. As Asema mentioned, it happened in F1 and the people involved were given much harsher penalties than 300k fines.

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